Expats are feeling sick and tired of Americans whining over beef imports

[mcalpine]

Send Rice's A**SS Back to the U.S. ! Get the hell out of Japan and leave us alone !

Nobody wants your stinking beef !!!!!!!!

"Japan, a land of four season and one race living in harmony with nature and expats who love the nature of Japanese women"

[Hyakushiki]

I am not sick of it at all, thank you.

Why should I be sick of it? American beef is completely safe. BSE is not the killer it is made out to be. Don't eat any brain or nerve material, and you are fine. I would eat the flesh of a cow that died of BSE, no problem. Japan has had far, far more cases of BSE than the US. Why aren't they banning Japanese beef? Because the Japanese food producers are powerful, monied interests who lobby hard and are in bed with all the politicians who create ridiculously protectionist policies that rape the average Japanese consumer. Go on, go to other east Asian countries and see that the same Japanese food products sell for 1/2 to even 1/4 the price they sell for here. They charge absurd prices here because they are protected and have no competition.

This is nothing more than an excuse to allow domestic producers to overcharge more than they already did for beef. I remember going to the supermarket the day after the BSE case was discovered in the US and seeing the price of "steaks" (and I use the term loosely) go from 400 to 650 yen overnight! Prices have remained the same ever since. I won't buy.

Ok, here comes the tsunami of mindless anti-US sentiment...

[eku]

get it from a brazilian shop
steak goes for around 700 to 900 yen a KILOGRAM
so yum yum.... get mad cows
ps its aussie beef
and yes they have lamb too

[jonnyrobinson]

Yeah, Aussie beef is available fairly cheaply in our neighbourhood stores. It's almost like, "American beef? Never heard of it mate..."

[limitsnot]

McAlpine, you kiss your mother with that mouth?

[stillnosheep]

"Japan sends Rice back to America". That'll be the day!

[Eric2006]

I don't know why Japan wants bland American and Australian meat any way. Thats the only think wrong with Japan, the meat tasts like crap :(. British meat is the best in the world and European too :D.

[kuro_kitty]

Aussie Aussie Aussie

Oy Oy Oy

The best rumps, ribs and loins in the world!

[Nonbe]

kitty...rumps and loins? I love it when you talk dirty..

*rubs thighs suggestively*

[stillnosheep]

errh, I think that was her point (again (yawn)...)

[kuro_kitty]

errh, I think that was her point (again (yawn)...)

(punch...)

[stillnosheep]

(punch...)....missed

[kurogane]

I don't know why Japan wants bland American and Australian meat any way. Thats the only think wrong with Japan, the meat tasts like crap :(. British meat is the best in the world and European too :D.

Nothing like British beef. Especially the worm infested BSE ridden offal and spinal cord remnants they use to make pies.
I think the world is too soft. What you kids need is a good imperial rape of the world, followed by two destructive wars in the space of fifty years, preferably with a parasitic anachronistic monarchy thrown in for good measure. Then you mamby pamby willy______s will learn to appreciate British cuisine. Nothing like a bit of boiled mush to set the constitution straight.

[jonnyrobinson]

Kurogane, a lot of what you wrote above could be said about Japan! What's with the Brit-bashing all of a sudden?

[Nonbe]

I'm a brit and I'm bashing myself while I'm typing this.

[Kent Brockman]

Had my mid-morning wank a bit earlier. Quite looking forward to me midday wank, just quietly.

[donpaulo]

If the beef is safe enough to eat in the domestic market, its safe enough to import. Since americans are eating beef its safe to eat that beef here in Japan.
However trade practices have a long and complicated history.
What is more concerning than american beef is Mr Chirac selling arms to china.

[madmaxxam]

I can still buy American beef. Nice, cheap, American beef. Thank you Carrefour. Thank you.

[waller]

If the beef is safe enough to eat in the domestic market, its safe enough to import. Since americans are eating beef its safe to eat that beef here in Japan.
However trade practices have a long and complicated history.
What is more concerning than american beef is Mr Chirac selling arms to china.

What is also concerning is the US`s encouragement for Japan rearming. If anyone has the time for a long, but very interesting article, check this out:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=17&ItemID=7446

[jonnyrobinson]

Hmmm... interesting (but long) article. But what are the US and Japanese supposed to do? Just sit back and watch the Chinese start dominating Asia and probably the rest of the world?

The more I look at China, the more I see it as a threat:

1. This country is not a democracy, and shows no signs of becoming one in the forseeable future. It is governmed by a corrupt and arrogant elite, who are accountable to no-one, and will stop at nothing to ensure the preservation of the priviledged positions.

2. It's long history and past insults and injuries from foreigners (both real and imagined) mean it has a significant 'chip-on-the-shoulder' or 'victim' menatility, inferiority/ superiority complex, etc. which is hardly conducive to long term peace and stability. There is a strong desire for 'revenge' against several foreign countries (e.g. the UK, US, and Japan) in many parts of Chinese society. Once they get a better military and economic leverage over us, watch out.

3. Its population gender imbalance (100 girls to 129 boys) means there will soon be a lot of frustrated Chinese men who can't get a partner/ wife. This could well feed in to a desire to import females from neighboring countries. Again, this has ramifications for peace and secuirty in the Asia-Pacific region.

4. Environmental degradation is running amok as the country pursues growth at all costs. Acid rain caused by sulphur fumes from Chinese factories is already a problem for Japanese trees. It is just one example of how the environmental problem could adversely affect the security of the region.

5. Desire for raw materials. Chinese demand for raw materials is pushing up prices to record levels. As the fight to secure oil and gas imports hots up, don't expect China not to start flexing its muscles in the middle-east, south China sea, central asia, etc.

Don't flame me! I'm not a Japan apologist, right-wing nutter or anti-Chinese bigot. But I honestly feel that dealing with China is gonna be a big problem for the WHOLE world within the next few years.

[observer]

To my regret, much of the previous poster's comment on China is pretty much true, IMO. I'd say he has seen through it all pretty well.

The more I think about where China is now, the more I get worried about where it is going: its lack of serious internal opposition, apparent lack of morality and ethics for human rights or justice by its govt, its demographic and gender imbalance (it makes Japanese demographic problem look like a child play), its chauvinistic nationalism egged on by the govt... These are surely not good signs.

In fact, dealing with China is already a problem. If they want, they could solve the North Korean problem tomorrow. But they do not, and there is no sign they are willing to any time soon.

But what can we do? We still have to work with these people. Part of the problem, the way I see, is that they do not have good understanding about foreigners, so I try to hold out hope that the wealthier they get, the more they will try to increase their standard of living, interact with other foreigners, and open their minds to diverse views... I know there are a lot of good and ethical Chinese people, but unfortunately a lot of them are outside China (in fact, I hear they leave China precisely for those reasons)...

I don't think there is any easy answer. In the meantime, I'd say the best course of action is to engage economically with these people as well as we can... (Thank God at least they are not being ruled by a Dear Leader!)

[stillnosheep]

Nothing like a bit of boiled mush to set the constitution straight.
Boiled beef and carrots!
Boiled beef and carrots!
Nothing quite like it for ruling the world!

Boiled beef and carrots!
Boiled beef and carrots!
Nothing quite like it for ruling the world!

Have just heard thah my best friend has just had her 5th child so there can't be that much wrong with British Beef!

Oh, on second thoughts, she and her family are all vegetarians. Back to the drawing board!

[madmaxxam]

Well, China is quickly becoming a giant in the region, and Jonny's post is right on pretty much every point. However, there are a few important factors that are troubling for China. Things aren't rosy as they seem for th world's new rising superpower. Actually, there are some very closely related problems.

Let's start with water. Arguably the most important resource in the world, and the one most taken for granted in much of the western world. China is facing severe water crisis. The northern river basins regularly run dry, meaning people in cities closer to the ocean often times have trouble getting access to fresh water, farms have trouble getting water to irrigate, and water is one of the last resources you want to have a very high price. What water there is is often polluted, and not necessarily safe for drinking, or suitable for agriculture. Water shortages in more recent years have quickly turned China from a huge exporter of food into a huge importer of food, partially through quickly dropping farming efficiency. Water is also one resource that it's not very realisitic to import. The quantities needed are far too great.
And the kicker, with water supply anyway, is that global warming (if it is true, and it most likely is) will probably bite China in the ___ really badly, starting within a decade or so. Glaciers in the Himalaya's have been quickly melting. This has, if anything, been boosting the waterflow in the rivers (lots of floods recently in parts of China, the trend is expected to continue for a bit). Glaciers have always been a large source of water for rivers, but they used to stay about the same size from year to year, melting during the summer, when the water is needed, being built up during the winter. As the glaciers continue to shrink the water coming from them every year will start to decrease until they're gone. At this point, there definately won't be enough water in China.
And, once the glaciers dry up, and the rivers start to go away, desertification will accelerate even more in China. Western China has (I believe) the highest rates of desertification in the world. Much of what is turning into desert is farmland, lowering food production of the country even further. And it's really hard to reclaim desert.

Anyway, it's hard to see how much any of this will effect China, but food prices in the world market have been on the rise, partly due to demand from China. Things like this help weaken any potential power China might have. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.

[stillnosheep]

Are you back in Kansai yet KK?

[Eric2006]

Nothing like British beef. Especially the worm infested BSE ridden offal and spinal cord remnants they use to make pies.

Kurogane, you must be vegitarian or some thing if you havent tried a good old British pie ;). Real men eat black pudding and haggis, good old kidney brain and all the other stuff that goes into it. Hmm this is really making me hungry! :D.

BTW You guys are the ones who invented McDonnelds and the high quality food they make there :D.

[stillnosheep]

The more I think about where China is now, the more I get worried about where it is going: its lack of serious internal opposition, apparent lack of morality and ethics for human rights or justice by its govt, its chauvinistic nationalism egged on by the govt... These are surely not good signs.

In fact, dealing with China is already a problem. If they want, they could solve the North Korean problem tomorrow. But they do not, and there is no sign they are willing to any time soon.

But what can we do? We still have to work with these people. Part of the problem, the way I see, is that they do not have good understanding about foreigners, so I try to hold out hope that the wealthier they get, the more they will try to increase their standard of living, interact with other foreigners, and open their minds to diverse views... I know there are a lot of good and ethical Chinese people, but unfortunately a lot of them are outside ChinaDear junior member,

We are all so happy about your deep and serious engagement with the 'china question'. As you say "We still have to work with these people [but] they do not have good understanding about foreigners".

Truly it is sad and I'm sure that all Chinese people would like to join me in thanking you for your care and concern. It is good to know that our elder brothers in the great democracies of the west have not forgotten us less advantaged peoples. How we wish that we could be blessed with such fine officials as, for example, ensured that due proceess prevailed in the great state of Florida barely half a decade since.

[Eric2006]

Signed the Chinese priminister and the people of China.

[kuro_kitty]

Are you back in Kansai yet KK?

If I am KK....I think I am....no...I've never been to Kansai, I'm a Kanto girl...why?

[aha yes]

Ha, read this again but replace 'America' for every instance of 'China' (except for the gender imbalance bit):

The more I look at China, the more I see it as a threat:

1. This country is not a democracy, and shows no signs of becoming one in the forseeable future. It is governmed by a corrupt and arrogant elite, who are accountable to no-one, and will stop at nothing to ensure the preservation of the priviledged positions.

2. It's long history and past insults and injuries from foreigners (both real and imagined) mean it has a significant 'chip-on-the-shoulder' or 'victim' menatility, inferiority/ superiority complex, etc. which is hardly conducive to long term peace and stability. There is a strong desire for 'revenge' against several foreign countries (e.g. the UK, US, and Japan) in many parts of Chinese society. Once they get a better military and economic leverage over us, watch out.

3. Its population gender imbalance (100 girls to 129 boys) means there will soon be a lot of frustrated Chinese men who can't get a partner/ wife. This could well feed in to a desire to import females from neighboring countries. Again, this has ramifications for peace and secuirty in the Asia-Pacific region.

4. Environmental degradation is running amok as the country pursues growth at all costs. Acid rain caused by sulphur fumes from Chinese factories is already a problem for Japanese trees. It is just one example of how the environmental problem could adversely affect the security of the region.

5. Desire for raw materials. Chinese demand for raw materials is pushing up prices to record levels. As the fight to secure oil and gas imports hots up, don't expect China not to start flexing its muscles in the middle-east, south China sea, central asia, etc.

[observer]

Dear junior member,

We are all so happy about your deep and serious engagement with the 'china question'. As you say "We still have to work with these people [but] they do not have good understanding about foreigners".

Truly it is sad and I'm sure that all Chinese people would like to join me in thanking you for your care and concern. It is good to know that our elder brothers in the great democracies of the west have not forgotten us less advantaged peoples. How we wish that we could be blessed with such fine officials as, for example, ensured that due proceess prevailed in the great state of Florida barely half a decade since.

You know what? You are absolutely right! It was presumptuous of me to say those grand things about the Chinese people. As you implied, I am probably one of those ignorant foreigners. But I do recognize my own ignorance. If what I said offended anyone, my apologies. If anything I said is incorrect, I invite anyone to provide more accurate information. (I am not being sarcastic, I am serious; I want to be better informed). I also fully agree it is ultimately up to the Chinese people to decide their own fate and run their affairs. But I still believe we should work with each other - that sounds more sensible than just ignoring each other or simply stockpiling weapons though, in my opinion? And I do hope the Chinese will work with me despite my ignorance.

Anyhow, thank you for pointing out weakness in my argument.

[aha yes]

I know there are a lot of good and ethical Chinese people, but unfortunately a lot of them are outside China (in fact, I hear they leave China precisely for those reasons)...
Or maybe a lot of Chinese have left China for a better economic situation. Raking in the big green -- very good and ethical, eh? Ironically, from a mainland Chinese perspective, there's no one they distrust more in the world than 'overseas Chinese', who sometimes set up abroad then run cons on the motherlanders from a safe distance. Seen it happen with my own eyes.

And 'good and ethical', you realize, are culturally loaded terms. For example, if your parents asked you to murder someone, would you refuse on principle? In Chinese ethics, filial piety trumps any principle. Putting your own personal principles over your duty to those who begot you is extremely unethical.

BTW, if you check the stats, I think you'll find that in the last 10 yrs. or so, Chinese haven't been emigrating like they used to. Seems they generally like China when they can earn a living...

[observer]

Or maybe a lot of Chinese have left China for a better economic situation. Raking in the big green -- very good and ethical, eh? Ironically, from a mainland Chinese perspective, there's no one they distrust more in the world than 'overseas Chinese', who sometimes set up abroad then run cons on the motherlanders from a safe distance. Seen it happen with my own eyes.

And 'good and ethical', you realize, are culturally loaded terms. For example, if your parents asked you to murder someone, would you refuse on principle? In Chinese ethics, filial piety trumps any principle. Putting your own personal principles over your duty to those who begot you is extremely unethical.

BTW, if you check the stats, I think you'll find that in the last 10 yrs. or so, Chinese haven't been emigrating like they used to. Seems they generally like China when they can earn a living...

Fair enough. That was the kind of information I was seeking. I stand corrected.

[donpaulo]

A few pertinent thoughts on china.
The first is what consitutes a threat to one side, often translates to threat on the other side. Its best to avoid saberattling words such as THREAT. Unless of course you are a neo-con and want more money for the pentagon.
Second if Mr Bush can target Iraq and Afghanistan (which neighbors China) for "security reasons" I reckon the Chinese can target Taiwan for the same reasons. They didn't make the rules, they are simply playing by them. Can you imagine the chinese attacking cuba or nicaragua and what the US would have to say about that ? Talk about a threat :)
The ratio of boys to girls was largely due to the one child policy. However if happen to know any expats who live in China (I know one or two) they will tell you that their chinese wife has the run of the place... Fewer women should in theory empower them all the more. Communism has many downsides but does contain the side benefit of equal rights between sexes. They have come a long way from foot binding. I feel sorry for the men over there, not the women.
The Chinese continue to make millions exporting goods to the US in ever increasing amounts as the trade gap widens. Not to mention the ARTIFICIAL currency level of the Gen or Yuan or whatever its called these days. Those letters of credit are being used to purchase US treasury bonds. Its gathering momentum too.
So the Chinese aren't a Democracy eh ? neither is Saudi nor Egypt although the later pretends to be democratic but has had the same leader for 20 plus years.
Are there concerns ? certainly. But finger pointing doesn't help the issue, it merely inflames it.
Regarding the immigration of Chinese to foreign shores, there was a large immigration of Hong Kong Chinese to places like Vancouver during the british handover of the former colony. Although I don't know of much chinese immigration going on now. From a historical perspective the US has had strong controls on the levels of chinese immigration for over a century.
Its all a complex subject and as such can easily be mishandled by people saying they have all the answers. Be wary as the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
As far as Japanese re-arming I simply say Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it. ttfn

[waller]

Heavily populated Asian country, desperate for raw materials and resources. Big threat in the region. Past history of brutal invasion and attempts to dominate the whole region. Now who would that be?

[observer]

Signed the Chinese priminister and the people of China.

Absolutely no problem, it is my honor indeed, Comrade Eric2006.

Now, I will do as you said, so as a sign of appreciation, by using your filial power, could you bring your younger brother to the six-party talk, PLEASE?






(...hey don't take that personally, I am just kidding okay? =)

[observer]

A few pertinent thoughts on china.
The first is what consitutes a threat to one side, often translates to threat on the other side. Its best to avoid saberattling words such as THREAT. Unless of course you are a neo-con and want more money for the pentagon.
Second if Mr Bush can target Iraq and Afghanistan (which neighbors China) for "security reasons" I reckon the Chinese can target Taiwan for the same reasons. They didn't make the rules, they are simply playing by them. Can you imagine the chinese attacking cuba or nicaragua and what the US would have to say about that ? Talk about a threat :)
The ratio of boys to girls was largely due to the one child policy. However if happen to know any expats who live in China (I know one or two) they will tell you that their chinese wife has the run of the place... Fewer women should in theory empower them all the more. Communism has many downsides but does contain the side benefit of equal rights between sexes. They have come a long way from foot binding. I feel sorry for the men over there, not the women.
The Chinese continue to make millions exporting goods to the US in ever increasing amounts as the trade gap widens. Not to mention the ARTIFICIAL currency level of the Gen or Yuan or whatever its called these days. Those letters of credit are being used to purchase US treasury bonds. Its gathering momentum too.
So the Chinese aren't a Democracy eh ? neither is Saudi nor Egypt although the later pretends to be democratic but has had the same leader for 20 plus years.
Are there concerns ? certainly. But finger pointing doesn't help the issue, it merely inflames it.
Regarding the immigration of Chinese to foreign shores, there was a large immigration of Hong Kong Chinese to places like Vancouver during the british handover of the former colony. Although I don't know of much chinese immigration going on now. From a historical perspective the US has had strong controls on the levels of chinese immigration for over a century.
Its all a complex subject and as such can easily be mishandled by people saying they have all the answers. Be wary as the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
As far as Japanese re-arming I simply say Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it. ttfn

Hmm. Some of the miscommunications were my fault, and I will take back my comments on ethical quality of Chinese govt or pattern of migration, as Aha yes demonstrated they were open to debate.

But in my own defence... In that ignorant post of mine, I still carefully avoided words such as threat or democracy (both favorite words by Bush) by rephrasing them in more neutral terms and tried to put some highlight on the role of the govt. If I appeared to be blaming the people, that was my poor choice of words and I own up to it. And no, I never said we should contain China with latest war toys. In fact, I was saying let's interact with them some more. and I did not mean to imply China was an improverished 3rd world country. (In fact, I am aware that once adjusted for purchasing power, Chinese economy is probably considerably bigger than Japanese economy. (Anybody with exact numbers?) China making millions of dollars - good for them.

As for suppression of internal political opposition and rising nationalism, I will have to let them stand until someone presents evidence to the contrary (and sarcasm will not count as evidence). And I do believe there is more they can do about solving the North Korean situation. I am entitled to that much political opinion, aint I?
But I stress it is my intention to point out, but not to point finger. And no, I am no Richard Gere demanding the 'liberation' of China and Tibet. As I said, it is ultimately up to the Chinese people to decide their own fate.

Anyhow, take it for what it is worth. I just wanted to point out my comments weren't intended as anti-China...

Gee, why are we talking about China, weren't we talking about beef? beef beef beef... =)

[waller]

From http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=17&ItemID=7446

"China, Japan, and the United States are the three most productive economies on Earth, but China is the fastest growing (at an average rate of 9.5% per annum for over two decades), whereas both the U.S. and Japan are saddled with huge and mounting debts and, in the case of Japan, stagnant growth rates. China is today the world's sixth largest economy (the U.S. and Japan being first and second) and our third largest trading partner after Canada and Mexico. According to CIA statisticians in their Factbook 2003, China is actually already the second-largest economy on Earth measured on a purchasing power parity basis -- that is, in terms of what China actually produces rather than prices and exchange rates. The CIA calculates the United States' gross domestic product (GDP) -- the total value of all goods and services produced within a country -- for 2003 as $10.4 trillion and China's $5.7 trillion. This gives China's 1.3 billion people a per capita GDP of $4,385"

[observer]

From http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=17&ItemID=7446

"China, Japan, and the United States are the three most productive economies on Earth, but China is the fastest growing (at an average rate of 9.5% per annum for over two decades), whereas both the U.S. and Japan are saddled with huge and mounting debts and, in the case of Japan, stagnant growth rates. China is today the world's sixth largest economy (the U.S. and Japan being first and second) and our third largest trading partner after Canada and Mexico. According to CIA statisticians in their Factbook 2003, China is actually already the second-largest economy on Earth measured on a purchasing power parity basis -- that is, in terms of what China actually produces rather than prices and exchange rates. The CIA calculates the United States' gross domestic product (GDP) -- the total value of all goods and services produced within a country -- for 2003 as $10.4 trillion and China's $5.7 trillion. This gives China's 1.3 billion people a per capita GDP of $4,385"

Ah, the numbers are in. Hmm, just as I thought. Thanks Waller.

[Eric2006]

observer

Signed the Chinese priminister and the people of China.
Absolutely no problem, it is my honor indeed, Comrade Eric2006.

Now, I will do as you said, so as a sign of appreciation, by using your filial power, could you bring your younger brother to the six-party talk, PLEASE?

(...hey don't take that personally, I am just kidding okay? =)

Why would I take is personal :D. This topic does seem to be turning into some kind of seriouse conference or some thing though :D.

[stillnosheep]

If I am KK....I think I am....no...I've never been to Kansai, I'm a Kanto girl...why?
sorry k-kitty, I was referring to the kansai kat to whom you occasionally refer as 'daddy'

[stillnosheep]

Signed the Chinese priminister and the people of China.Emergency! Emergency! Paymasters discovered! Paymasters discovered! Abandon Ship! Abandon Ship! I love the USA! I love the USA! Texas! Texas! I wish I were home! Where the buffalo roam! And the deer and the antelope play!! By the dawn's early light! Is our star-spangled banner still! The home of the brave! And the Land of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! Man the lifeboats! Evacuate! Evacuate! Tora! Tora! Tora!

[stillnosheep]

In fact, dealing with China is already a problem. If they want, they could solve the North Korean problem tomorrow. But they do not, and there is no sign they are willing to any time soon.

But what can we do? We still have to work with these people. Part of the problem, the way I see, is that they do not have good understanding about foreigners,
Absolutely correct except for the mis-spelling of USA. If the USA would backtrack from wishing to overthrow the regime in North Korea then North Korea would have little need of maintaining a nuclear deterrent to protect itself from any future Iraqee-stylee 'liberation'.

Keep up the pressure.

[madmaxxam]

Back on the original topic. My gf started working at an import/export place. Almost everything being imported from Australia now is beef. Personally, as long as it's cheap, I'm happy.

//Thoughts from a poor researcher.

[jonnyrobinson]

Actually, maybe it's a good thing that people can't eat so much cheap beef these days. Red meat is pretty bad for people's body fat level and arteries, and I've lost 4kg since last summer, and the only thing different I have done is stop eating red meat.

[madmaxxam]

Actually, maybe it's a good thing that people can't eat so much cheap beef these days. Red meat is pretty bad for people's body fat level and arteries, and I've lost 4kg since last summer, and the only thing different I have done is stop eating red meat.

Better keep eating red meat then. I can't afford to lose even a single kilogram. And all my other indicators are good. I'll continue my trend of eat whatever I want and work out regularly.

[kuro_kitty]

How can protein be bad for your body fat levels? Yeah, sure meat clogs your bowels but it doesn't make you get fatter...it actually helps you increase your muscle mass...unless you're eating Japanese beef...you know, from the cows that are hung up in a cow factory and force fed

[jonnyrobinson]

Too Much Red Meat Bad for Long-Term Health

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - When it comes to high protein diets and health, the source of the protein really does matter, new research suggests.
After following nearly 30,000 women for 15 years, investigators found that women were more likely to die from heart disease if they often substituted red meat for carbohydrates. In contrast, swapping vegetable sources of protein for carbs appeared to protect women from heart disease.

"Our main finding was that animal compared to vegetable sources of protein seem to have a different effect on dying from heart disease," study author Dr. Linda E. Kelemen from the Mayo Clinic College of Medicine in Rochester, Minnesota told Reuters Health.

For this reason, she recommended that people who want to follow high protein diets should stick with vegetable proteins such as tofu, nuts and peanut butter, or healthier meats like chicken or fish.

With high protein diets a now-popular eating style, few studies have examined their long-term health effects, and whether different sources of protein make a difference, Kelemen and her team write in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

To investigate, the researchers interviewed 29,017 postmenopausal women about their eating and lifestyle habits, then followed them for 15 years, noting who died and of what cause. All of the women were free of cancer, heart disease and diabetes at the beginning of the study.

The investigators found that women who most often ate vegetable protein in place of carbohydrates and animal protein were 30 percent less likely to die of heart disease.

But the more red meat and dairy products women substituted for carbohydrates, the more their risk of heart disease increased.

Overall, opting for protein over carbs had no significant influence on the risk of dying from any cause.

Kelemen explained that it's still unclear why our hearts like vegetable proteins better than animal proteins. It's possible that vegetable proteins contain different building blocks, minerals or antioxidants that are good for our bodies, Kelemen said. Vegetable proteins could also contain substances that affect hormones in healthier ways, she added.

"Protein from different sources seems to have different health effects," she noted. "Long-term adherence to higher protein intakes without distinguishing between the source of the protein may increase the risk of dying from heart disease."

SOURCE: American Journal of Epidemiology, February 2005.

[kuro_kitty]

Hey JR, I totally agree with that article....getting rid of all animal products, with the exception of tuna or fish fillets (shell fish has even been proven to stuff up your blood/bowels/stomach/allergies etc) is the best way to maintain your health both inside and out... but I don't agree that eating red meat makes you get fat, red meat stuffs up your hormone regularity, bowel, intestine and liver....I disagree with the whole *no-carbs* crap...carbs are sooo good for you...broccoli, cabbage...all those beautiful green veges and fruits, brown rice, rye bread...the list goes on....

[Mr or Mrs Smith]

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx