Should The Government Have A Say In The Terry Schiavo Issue?

[mcalpine]

I feel the government has far extended it's power in how families choose to handle their loved ones. Terry Schiavo should be allowed to die as she requested with dignity and grace. Bush will sign a special law in power to keep Terry alive ! The religious right needs to stop !!!!!

[jonnyrobinson]

And who, pray tell, is this Terry geezer? More importantly, why do you assume that we know him? Talk about American ethnocentric arrogance...

[madmaxxam]

And who, pray tell, is this Terry geezer? More importantly, why do you assume that we know him? Talk about American ethnocentric arrogance...

Actually, it was headlined on BBC news, so back down with your insults. She is a now very famous case in Florida because her parents are good at making noise. Her brain happens to have mostly disappeared and been replaced by spinal fluid, and her husband wants to take out her feeding tubes and let her die, but her parents have made a mess of things. Fortunately judges are doing the right thing, but the federal govt. wants to make a bill just for this woman.

Obviously this should all be no one's business, except for the familes, but that's not the way the world works anymore. Obviously the govt. is overstepping thier power, and the sad thing is that many Americans seem to want the govt. to interfere in our day to day lives... What is America coming to?

[aha yes]

And who, pray tell, is this Terry geezer? More importantly, why do you assume that we know him? Talk about American ethnocentric arrogance...
First, if you don't know about it, Google it and find out or just ignore it instead of reacting so rashly and spitefully. There ARE Americans on this board that one might assume mcalpine was talking to. Second, even a cursory read of the pronouns in the OP would tell you it's a her, not a 'him'. Third, you should avoid using words that are too big for you. 'Ethnocentric', for example, does not apply here because Americans are not an ethnic group and in any case are ethnically the same as many other gaijin here from other countries. 'Ethnocentric' rather describes the shallow anti-Japan rants you often fill these threads with. Fourth, it's generally not nice to refer to people who have been comatose and defenseless for 15 yrs. as 'geezer'. The arrogance is all yours, troll.

***

The religious right/Bush bros. don't care about Terry Schiavo or her family. It's another power play against the courts that they use as an excuse to talk about right to life. Hoard more power for the executive while making a good show of faux compassion for middle America -- two birds with one stone.

[Hyakushiki]

Aha yes, absolutely correct about this Terry Schiavo case. Of course they are using this as a convenient pretext to set precedent for their anti-abortion crusade. It's nothing more than grandstanding and consolidation of constituent base, no doubt.

The other interesting element that comes into play here is the right's absolute and unabashed hypocrisy when it comes to the issue of state rights vs. federal authority. (For those that don't know, the issue of state rights vs. federal authority is an ever-present theme in our country's history. There is a reason it is called the UNITED STATES of America - the original idea was that each state was to be a politically sovereign entitiy, for the most part, with very little federal oversight of state policy, legislature, etc.) By and large, the right is always railing on and on about the importance of state's rights and the importance of upholding state court decisions with as little federal court intervention as possible. But, as soon as it becomes politically convenient for them, or a state court decision doesn't mesh with their plan for the way things should be, they go crying to the federal courts, or COMPLETELY overstep their bounds as members of the legislative branch in an attempt to interfere with the judicial.

Another example of this was Bush v Gore back in 2000 when the Republicans pushed what was unquestionably a Florida state matter up to the Republican controlled supreme court, where Rehnquist and crew immediately went against decades of their own pro-state precedents and overturned the Florida state court decision, allowing Bush to win the presidency. If / when we get a Dem controlled Supreme Court, they will certainly reap what they sowed in 2000.

Don't get me wrong, the Dems are equally as vile. Barbara Boxer's grandstanding during the Rice confirmation hearings sickened me, for example. But in this Schiavo case, the Republicans are out of line in typical fashion.

PS Madaxxman - according to an informal CNN poll, 81% of Americans DO NOT think that the government is doing the right thing in this case. I think for the most part, we are extremely sensitive to government interference in our lives, probably more so than any other country on earth. When was the last time you heard of a Ruby Ridge / Waco / Oklahoma Federal Building incident in any other country? Just my opinion, though.

[madmaxxam]

PS Madaxxman - according to an informal CNN poll, 81% of Americans DO NOT think that the government is doing the right thing in this case. I think for the most part, we are extremely sensitive to government interference in our lives, probably more so than any other country on earth. When was the last time you heard of a Ruby Ridge / Waco / Oklahoma Federal Building incident in any other country? Just my opinion, though.

Didn't know. It's good to hear that 81% at least think the government should stay out of others affairs. The rhetoric that the Republicans are spewing on capital hill though makes it seem like they think they are doing the will of the Americans as opposed to using a tragic situation to push their politics. They really make me sick.

[jonnyrobinson]

An informal CNN poll, huh? Hmmm.... well judging by the US Presidential election result, and the Senate and House results, I'd say a majority of Americans are clearly in favor of the Republican party and the values it represents. They voted for 'em, so in a way they're getting what they deserve...becareful what you wish for, you might just get it!

[jonnyrobinson]

To Clarify: While Americans may be traditionally wary of federal intervention in mnay aspects of their lives, a MAJORITY of them clearly want the federal government to interfere in cases of a moral/ religious nature, such as gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, etc. Kind of like having your cake and eating it, sherman tank style...

[donpaulo]

Perhaps the question should be "when will the government find something more important to concentrate on ?" How about social security or the war on terror ?

I saw an interview with George WIll today (for those who don't know him he is almost the perfect example of staunch-conservatism in the US) Well anyway George has some serious misgivings with the present tack of the debate on the Hill. It sets an ugly precedent. He also predicted that it will come back to haunt the conserative movement at some point in the future.

If you are googling I would suggest you look up the process of Filibuster. Which is one of the tactics of the minority to delay passage of bills into law. Nuturing filibuster will have significant consequences.

Mr Will also stated that this case is the most litigated right to die case in US history. Its not going away anytime soon. I am happy to see it being debated here, but worry that archtype conservatism and bleeding heart liberals will further sow the seeds of discord in America by continuing the debate in the public halls of Washington DC.

Much bigger fish to fry. Lets hope they get on the with the business of avoiding national bankruptcy,

[limitsnot]

Ugggh. This one really bugs. I think the critical point was mentioned by Madmaxxam, which is that Schiavo's brain has mostly disintegrated into spinal fluid. She basically has already ceased to exist as an autonomous entity capable of even interacting with her caretakers. She and her husband had discussed her wishes (he at any rate claims to have no doubts as to what they were), so you'd think her parents would just let go. But no. They say she responds to them.

[jonnyrobinson]

And of course, you know better than her parents, right? Come to think of it, why don't you determine the fate of all such people, seeing as you're so confident in your opinions

[jonnyrobinson]

You have an agenda just as much as the religious right does. Stop acting as if your opinions are objective 'common sense'. Last time I checked, doctors were supposed to help people, not kill 'em.

[aha yes]

jonny,
She's a vegetable. Nobody's opinion -- it's a fact. After 15 yrs. of steady deterioration, what's a doctor gonna do for her?

BTW, can you really not wait more than 2 f*ckin' mins. to collect your thoughts and post more than 3 sentences at a time, or are you just trying to run up your post count here in some vain attempt at legitimizing your ignorance through sheer quantity?

[mcalpine]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Anyway, the bible beating conservatives should know better than to use Terry as a pin-up poster child for euthenasia. Terry's husband should have a legal say in what happens to her. She is no longer the legal responsibility of her parents. This action violates one of the strongest principals of marriage in the bible: A man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This passage can be interperatated anyway you wish but the crux of it is simple; Terry's husband should have the final say ! Something the conservative should know better considering their appeal factor with most religious zealots.

Dr. Jack Kavorkian , a pioneer in assisted suicide has been jailed for empowering people to take their own lives. Dr. Kavorkian has never killed anybody, but yet he is a criminal.
Whether then let Terry die of starvation allow her the means to end her own life with dignity !

I have never seen congress approve a bill so fast ! This is scary ! The Terry Law !

[mcalpine]

What's the best part about eating a vegetable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Putting it back in the wheelchair....hahaha...okay, McTojo popped out of me !

[aha yes]

Whether then let Terry die of starvation allow her the means to end her own life with dignity !
Nice thought, but how's this supposed to be done when she's unresponsive?

Oregon is the only state in the union where a doctor can legally prescribe lethal doses to terminally ill patients. The feds, at Bush's request, took the Death with Dignity Act to court more than a year ago, even though it was passed by referendum (that is, state voters themselves as a majority directly approved it) in '98. Case is still pending...

McCheese,
Tasteless as it was, I might have laughed had the joke even made sense. :p

[madmaxxam]

jonny with the knee-jerk responses...

To everyone who claims Terry is still a living person, and still has feelings, cognetive thought, emotions, etc. I say why don't you replace your cerebral cortex with spinal fluid and see how much of these things you are left with. You can keep a human body alive without much of the brain. Without the cerebral cortex though that human body is no longer a person, it's more like a fleshy container to sustain chemical reactions. What is it that her parents know about better jonny? Cause it's obviously not medicine. Her husband has final say in the matter, the courts agreed, and also agreed that the only two medical 'experts' (appointed by the family) who said she had any hope (in contrast to every other doctor, including independant court appointed ones) didn't have any 'real' evidence of hope of recovery.

The parents have emotions, and love for, and longing to once again be able to possess, an essentially dead child. Let her go.

[Code Rot]

If I ever get a terminal disease, I think I will spend my final days on a mixture of drugs such as ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, etc. I will end my life in a permanent high, remembering all the good times that I had, and the lessons that I learnt. It would be so cool to start dabbling in heroin at age 80 -- there is nothing to lose at that age, so why not spend your final days in a drug-fuelled hedonistic bliss? I reckon the important thing at that age is to have a good death. The way you die is very important and I think it is up to the individual to decide how they die, not some little politician trying to play the moralistic card to divert attention away from an illegal war he started in another part of the world, which has already consumed 1500 American lives for no strategic benefit.

Japanese people value the way they die -- that is why suicide is seen as an honorable solution to life's problems here. The problem with George Bush and the people who vote for him is that, since they don't know what it is to be truly alive, they are scared of death. They can't understand why someone would choose to die. But I want total control over the way I die, just as I demand total control over the way I live. The moral majority will never have the courage to recognise suicide as the beautiful thing for which it is.

[aha yes]

If I ever get a terminal disease, I think I will spend my final days on a mixture of drugs such as ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, etc. I will end my life in a permanent high, remembering all the good times that I had, and the lessons that I learnt. It would be so cool to start dabbling in heroin at age 80 -- there is nothing to lose at that age, so why not spend your final days in a drug-fuelled hedonistic bliss?
"Death...It's the one thing we haven't succeeded in completely vulgarizing." -Aldous Huxley, who went out on a 100-mmg dose of LSD

[jonnyrobinson]

Ok, I'll agree that the Schiavo case has been totally politicized outside of the emotional struggle between her family members. But what can be gained from such a political move? Answer: the end of the Democratic party. Republicans are already seen as heros of the free world by large cross-sections of the American public, rightly or wrongly. That's why Bush was given another mandate by the American people to continue leading the War on Terror.

Democrats have lost one political battle after another since Clinton's re-election in 1996, and have alienated themselves from mainstream people who often aren't even very conservative. In wanting Terri Schiavo to die a horribly agonizing death, the Democrats have simultaneously put the last nail in their coffin. The second to last nail was Gov. Dean being elected Chairman of the DNC. What on earth are the Democrats thinking? I can't wait for the Republican smear ads directed at the congressmen and women who were in favor of killing (or 'euthanazing' her, for the PC crowd) Schiavo when they come up for re-election! They're gonna have a field day... And in 2008 it will be a sure victory for the GOP when their opponents are labled as the guys who wanted to kill Terri Schiavo.

[mcalpine]

Actually, when George Bush was governor of Texas he passed a law that would remove the feeding tubes of indigent patience who weren't able to pay for medical treatment. So, basically if you were a vegetable and had no means of paying for your medical treatment then pull the plugs !? President Hypocrite Bush must of forgot this.

[aha yes]

I can't wait for the Republican smear ads directed at the congressmen and women who were in favor of killing (or 'euthanazing' her, for the PC crowd) Schiavo when they come up for re-election! They're gonna have a field day... And in 2008 it will be a sure victory for the GOP when their opponents are labled as the guys who wanted to kill Terri Schiavo.
Actually, most congressional Democrats abstained. Give them credit for considering their own political survival a little more thoroughly than you can. Anyway, this is hardly the kind of thing that will make or break an election 3 yrs. away. Even if it were, let the GOP start running ads about Shiavo and you'll see a major backlash against their tastelessness. Believe it or not, American people can see through that kind of lowbrow election pandering. When Bush used one ad with images from 9-11, the objections were such that it didn't run again.

Where do you get this stuff about Republicans being heroes of the free world to large cross-sections of America? Bush himself won with 51% of the vote. Many of that slim majority may not have considered him so much a hero as just a safer choice than the other guy at the time.

Takes a lot nails to seal a coffin. And American political parties have many lives -- the Replublicans themselves are proof of that.

[Che]

The hypocrisy of this so-called "sanctity of life" argument used by the religious right in america is surely too much even for the pulp-TV-fed populous to swallow (but alas I know it isn't).

If they were so worried about life, why are they so hell bent on killing people?

This issue, along with turning the Mcarthy murder in Belfast into a spectacle, is blatent political point scoring. People being told what the important issues of the day are, and being sucked along by the media tsunami.

[jonnyrobinson]

So Terri Schiavo has begun the slow, painful process of dying of dehydration and starvation...

Funny, if we were talking about killing a death row inmate or stray dog in the same manner, can you imagine the outcry? We wouldn't even be considering killing Scott Peterson (evil murderin' _______) or the stray mutt down at the pound this way. That would be inhumane, wouldn't it kiddies?

But Judge George Greer has conspired in a "court of law" with Michael Schiavo to kill his inconvenient wife because she's unable to speak for herself. Oh, sorry, I forgot. It's her "wish" to have her body emaciated by dehydration and starvation in a slow, torturous process that could take anywhere from 1-2 weeks. Seems this "wish" was expressed to Michael Schiavo while watching a made-for-TV movie nearly 20 years ago that he conveniently remembered only after winning a multi-million dollar malpractice suit and, coincidentally, shortly thereafter deciding to end Terri's therapy and shove her in a room to waste away.

The Florida House passed HB 701, which would block the withholding of food and water from persons in a persistent vegetative state who didn't leave specific instructions refusing these measures. Although I personally don't agree with the characterization of Terri's state as "vegetative" based on my Google research into the matter, I don't have a problem conceding this little semantic twist if it means her life will be saved. The Florida Senate is debating a similar measure (SB 804) that accomplishes the same goal but only when family members can't agree on proper care (or to kill or not to kill as the case may be). Florida Governor Jeb Bush stands ready to sign whichever version of the bill makes it to his desk in time to save Terri. These two bills are different from the bill that the Florida Supreme Court struck down in 2003, which specifically applied to Terri's case.

Thankfully, a bill that would remove the issue from the state courts and allow Terri's parents the right of federal review of the decision to kill her passed the U.S. House and in the U.S. Senate. President Bush stands ready to sign a federal bill into law as well.

Not only are all of these developments positive affirmations of federal and state legislators affirmation of the sanctity of life, they are just common sense. What doesn't make sense in this case: Executing a brain-damaged woman on the word of a guy who may have abused her, could no longer be considered a faithful "husband", has received millions in compensation for his wife's condition thus far and has been denying the woman the therapy and stimulation that could improve her condition. All people who believe in the sanctity of life, keep on praying. It's not over til it's over and Terri's been killed.

And for those of you who are about to attack me for defending something so terribly old-fashioned and 'uncool' as the right to life, I give you my Googled Sources: NewsMax.com, SunSentinel.com, ABCNews.com

[madmaxxam]

Wow Jonny, you bought into the 10 second video clips created from 4 hours of raw footage that make it look like she's responsive, much like many of the evangelical masses of America. I don't know how to say this again, but SHE HAS NO CEREBERAL CORTEX, it's been replaced by spinal fluid. At that point there is no such thing as consciousness or suffering, her body is just a seriers of autonymous functions by parts of her nervous system that don't need any central coordination...

Disagree with me? Fine, let's remove your cerebral cortex and replace it with spinal fluid (what happened to her brain), and see how you feel about it?

Ok, maybe you don't believe in that spooky thing called science, which says that you need a cerebral cortex for sentience, feelings, pain sensory, and any higher functionings. Then you probably believe in god, and you should be happy that this woman's miserable vegetable existance will be ending and that she gets to go to heaven.

Oh, and I don't know if this has already been mentioned in this thread, but that compassionate president who is so interested in her life, Bush is his name. He passed a bill in Texas when he was a governer that forced people in similar situations to have their plugs, tubes, etc. pulled if they or their family couldn't pay. Happened recently to a very young child against the mom's wishes.

[limitsnot]

You have an agenda just as much as the religious right does. Stop acting as if your opinions are objective 'common sense'. Last time I checked, doctors were supposed to help people, not kill 'em.

Give me an effing break. I did NOT say I was qualified to determine the fate of all people. That wasn't what I meant to express by putting my opinion forth confidently. The woman and her husband had discussed it. He's the one she's been with as an adult. I would see him as more qualified to respect her recent modes of thinking, and the parents more likely to drown him, her and everybody else around in their jellylike sentimentality. Speaking of jellylike, did you read the post about her brain having disintegrated mostly into spinal fluid? Man, she's not in a coma. It's gone beyond that. How is keeping her artificially alive "helping her"?

[limitsnot]

And, by the way, JR, what's this about death row being abhorrent to our society? That same Bush who is so interested in the Schiavo case has been quite adamant about the death row penalty in Texas. Executions are going up, not down. Check the "death row home-page"

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/annual.htm

[jonnyrobinson]

And, by the way, JR, what's this about death row being abhorrent to our society? That same Bush who is so interested in the Schiavo case has been quite adamant about the death row penalty in Texas. Executions are going up, not down. Check the "death row home-page"

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/annual.htm

Properly read what I wrote again.... it was a conditional thought: most people would find it abhorrent if we killed death row prisoners like Terri Schiavo is being killed i.e. slowly via starvation and dehydration. same with stray dogs. Most people would find it crual and offensive to put them down slowly, by starving and dehrdrating them. Now how was it they were planning to end Terri Schiavo's life again?

[madmaxxam]

Properly read what I wrote again.... it was a conditional thought: most people would find it abhorrent if we killed death row prisoners like Terri Schiavo is being killed i.e. slowly via starvation and dehydration. same with stray dogs. Most people would find it crual and offensive to put them down slowly, by starving and dehrdrating them. Now how was it they were planning to end Terri Schiavo's life again?

Well, the same people who don't want us to pull her plugs don't let us administer lethal doses of drugs such as morphine. That being the case though, this woman will well be doped up as she goes, despite NOT HAVING A CORTEX, and thus feeling no pain. Most AIDS and cancer patients (in addition to many that just die of old age) go out through dehydration and starvation, as they stop eating and drinking (the body starts to reject food, and as it starves and dehydrates itself produces natural pain killers to ease the process). The way she's going now is the way that countless hospice patients in the US (and countless others worldwide) are going. It's just the knee-jerk reaction that the evangelicists want to induce in you that makes you think this is an awful way to go. (Granted I'm all for euthinasia (sp?)). The point is, there's far more to all sides of this than you probably know Jonny.

[Hyakushiki]

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. You need to stop indiscriminately characterizing my countrymen as idiots, especially when you so clearly know so little about my country. No, the Republican party is not seen as heroic by a large cross-section of my country. As aha yes pointed out to you, Bush barely cleared this past election with 51% of the vote. And he arguably didn't even win the first election. And yes, now our Congress is Republican controlled, but it is cyclical. I don't know if you noticed this, but up until quite recently, it was controlled by the Democrats. The pendulum will swing in the other direction soon enough, particularly if they keep feeling free to trample all over our Constitutional guarantees of seperation of powers and due-process.

Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier, according to informal polls, 81% of my countrymen disagree with the government's involvement in this case, 92% agree that the issue has "become too politicized", and 72% think that "congress has gone too far". I don't think many people other than fringe elements are thinking of the Republicans as "heroes" right now. Us Americans are smarter than you seem to think. The vast majority of us see right through these political machinations.

You are all over the place. In one breath you are railing against our Republicans, and in the next you are saying you agree with them. Which is it? Because you sound exactly like bible-thumping right-winger when you start parroting exactly what they are saying about her supposed "lucidity" and "chances of recovery". But you hate them? I don't get it.

You also seem to take issue with the way in which she is being euthanized. Given that she effectively has no brain, is it inhumane to starve a person incapable of even feeling pain to death? Well, do you recommend we take her out in the back of the hospital and blow her head off with a shotgun? Lethal injection? Should we hang her? Is that what you would prefer? Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess.

Her brain is filled with liquid! It ain't coming back!

You're a nice enough guy, but you're not making any sense here.

[jonnyrobinson]

If I am not making sense then the pro-kill lobby are downright baffling me on this one.
You pro-killing advocates are caught in your own catch-22:

Which is it? If she's "brainless", then she's not suffering at all. Only her husband is, and he's killing her to relieve his suffering, not hers.

Or is she "suffering", as you say? In that case, and ipso facto, she can't be brainless. And if she's suffering now, then surely being killed by dehydration/starvation would be painful? And if she has the capacity to "suffer", she most likely has some brain function left.

The problem, of course, is that we don't know how brain-damaged she really is, and how much function she could recover with therapy. We don't know, because the husband won't allow her to receive therapy.

And yes, the husband has the legal right to determine her treatment. But providing her with food is not treatment. She is alive on her own, without medical assistance, and starving her to death is nothing more than a deliberate killing. Even injecting her with sodium pentobarbital would be more humane than denying her food and water.

BTW, I am not a GOP supporter or Bush lover. I just call 'em as I see 'em, instead of blindly following knee-jerk ideologies i.e. Bush has done something = must be evil!
So I oppose some stuff he and the GOP does, like the Iraq war, not signing the Kyoto Protocol, etc., but I support him (them) when I feel they are defending the right to life.

[Hyakushiki]

If I am not making sense then the pro-kill lobby are downright baffling me on this one.
You pro-killing advocates are caught in your own catch-22:

Which is it? If she's "brainless", then she's not suffering at all. Only her husband is, and he's killing her to relieve his suffering, not hers.

Or is she "suffering", as you say? In that case, and ipso facto, she can't be brainless. And if she's suffering now, then surely being killed by dehydration/starvation would be painful? And if she has the capacity to "suffer", she most likely has some brain function left.

All of what you just wrote is made moot by this one thing: TERRI REPEATEDLY STATED THAT SHE WOULD RATHER DIE THAN LIVE IN THIS STATE. Three different witnesses have testified to this fact. It isn't about her husband, it isn't about her family, it is about what she wanted and her own right to determine her own destiny. I had already played that logic game in my own head the day this news broke.

I can't speak for the other posters on this topic, but I personally am not so concerned with the question of whether it is morally OK to pull the plug. The Florida sate court already determined that is OK to pull the plug. What I take issue with is Congress' interference in what is fundamentally a personal and state matter. State sovereignty is continually erroded year after year by both parties, and I am sick of it. This is a family matter, a local matter, a state matter. The federal government has no right to get involved, no matter what. No matter what! What they are doing is hypocritical and unconstitutional, and I honestly don't care whether they are right or wrong. They cannot trample our rights to get what they want. It is only made worse by the fact that it is obvious that the Republicans are using her as a pawn to a) grandstand and get on television and b) set precedent for their wacky anti-abortion crusade and c) take power away from our judiciary and secure it for themselves. They don't give two turds about Terri Schiavo. This is politicking at its absolute ugliest.

Our Founding Fathers weren't playing around when they wrote seperation of powers into our Constitution! The legislative branch is free to legislate broad policy, but they are not free to write up made-to-order bills to interfere with individual rulings of our judiciary. No way.

[madmaxxam]

I never said she was suffering... she isn't. It was her wish that her body not be kept alive in this state. I never said that she would suffer either. All I did was point to medical evidence to say that many people die in the same way, and that people are just sensationalizing it to try and rally support for a cause. Yes it would be fun if we could euthanise people in this country, and I wish we could just shoot her body up so it would die faster and end this circus. I don't think she's suffering though, but I think it's foolish to keep her body alive. Her parents need to move on, they need to let her body go, and the country needs to realize what hacks our politicians are. Game over, no one wins. We've all already lost.

[limitsnot]

Alright, Jonny, I misread your point. So it's the manner that she will die in that concerns you. I notice that that's the only comment of mine you bothered to respond to. I think what you're worried about is that it's inhumane, right? Do you understand that she has no brain to govern her nervous system?

You say her husband is killing her to relieve his own suffering. Do you really think that letting a person with no brain die is the same as killing someone? It's not as if he hasn't tried to help her. It's just been a long time and she is not going to recover. So he's going to let go. That's all.

I have to strongly agree with Hyakushiki that it doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong for him to do this. It simply is not a federal matter. Our U.S. federal government is COMPLETELY neglecting it's duties in order to get involved in issues just such as this. I think it's true that they are trying to build warmth for an anti-abortion cause in a high-profile, high-anxiety, right-against-wrong moral face-off, and this is the tactic that they use to justify every hare-brained thing they do. They inflame public opinion with this right-vs-wrong thing, and critical analyses fall by the wayside. This is a classic diversion. It reminds me of this Bell Hooks (American intellectual and activist) talk I once saw on video. She was talking about the O.J. Simpson trial, saying that many people had approached her (she's black) trying to get her opinion on whether the case was an example of racial profiling. Her response? She said the case wasn't about race, but rather about domestic violence. Maybe it seems as if we're a bit cold-blooded to you, Jonny, but if you, as many world citizens do, criticize the actions of our government abroad, please realize that the abuse of their powers begins at home. We are a huge nation with a hell of a political morass to wade. We have to keep our issues clear if we're going to do anything about it.

I

[Hyakushiki]

Just a few more points that are not necessarily directed at Jonny.

1. It is wrong of both Congress and armchair pundits to effectively accuse 19 Florida State judges of profound stupidity and cold-hearted callousness. This case has been adjudicated for 7 years by some of the most honorable, educated people in the world. How can a handful of people watch a few seconds of tape and maybe do a few Google seaches and claim to know more about this case than the judges who ruled on it? It is a misguided disregard for the rule of law at best, arrogance at worst.

2. It is a testament to the fundamental strength of the US people and the Constitution that despite these blatant abuses of power by the legislature and the executive, the judiciary has held true to the original intent of the Founding Fathers despite intense scrutiny and pressure to do otherwise. Despite Congress best efforts, the checks and balances so brilliantly written into our Constitution have come through to thwart tyranny yet again. The US system isn't perfect by any means, but it is the best in the world.

Still proud to be an American.

[mcalpine]

CNN) -- In a unanimous ruling Thursday, the Florida Supreme Court struck down a law quickly passed to keep a brain-damaged woman on a feeding tube despite her husband's opposition.

The high court upheld a lower ruling that said "Terri's Law," named after Terri Schiavo, was unconstitutional

The very law " Terry Schiavo's Law" is why most judges are against, because it's unconstitional.

judges are not supposed to rule off of feelings but off of the sanctity of the law.

[aha yes]

I personally don't agree with the characterization of Terri's state as "vegetative" based on my Google research into the matter...

The problem, of course, is that we don't know how brain-damaged she really is, and how much function she could recover with therapy.
"Court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53848-2005Mar21_2.html)

One would assume, them being doctors and all (court-appointed, i.e. impartial, ones at that), that they are in a position to characterize her state with more authority than you or me and furthermore that they considered the potential benefits of therapy before reaching their conclusion. Or are they also in on the 'conspiracy' to murder with Justice Greer and the husband?



All people who believe in the sanctity of life, keep on praying. It's not over til it's over and Terri's been killed.
What do you mean by 'the sanctity of life'? I'm really not asking to be pedantic or to set you up for anything. It's just that my belief in the sanctity of life has led me to the exact opposite opinion from yours.

[limitsnot]

Yeah, I am proud of our judges too! It's the best thing that's happened lately! The ironically named "Terry's Law" has been rejected. It's so cool.

And WORD on your last comment, Aha. I feel the same way. Sanctity of life is about quality of life, not preserving life at all costs.

[madmaxxam]

Looks like it's all over now. Supreme court refused to hear the case. Anything that any Republican politician does now to save her would essentially be political suicide. I hope Jeb does something stupid to try to put her in state custody, it'd probably lose him the state of Florida.

[mcalpine]

I am proud of our U.S. Judges as well. I am finally at ease. For a moment I thought bush would hijack the judicial branch like he has hijacked the executive and legislative branches of our great country. This is a victory for every American. Our judges deserve kudos kudos kudso...
Wow !!

[limitsnot]

And kudzu. The only thing irritating me now is the media posting daily tearful bulletins on the status of the situation. I guess I shouldn't be mad about that but why don't they go find some kid in a trailer park without clean drinking water and report on the sorrow of his life, ya know?