It is not a CRIME to visit Yasukuni Shrine !!! [Archive]

donpaulo

2005-04-10, 11:25 PM

Mr K is pretty much screwed either way. If he goes he gets bad press overseas. If he doesn't go he gets bad press in Japan. Faced with that kind of decision its no wonder he attends the ceremony.

The facts are that Japan's economic future lies in China so they need to move towards normalizing relations and putting out fires, not starting them. Many Japanese don't know of the terrible suffering of Chinese people at the hands of their armed forces. Many Chinese don't know of the terrible suffering at the hands of the Chinese armed forces from circa 1930 to 1945-50. Its all about coming clean, making your peace and moving on. Sadly asian culture seems to have a significant element of denial associated with its social structure. Thus its not surprising that nobody is willing to "revisit" the past.

War criminals was not "invented" by non japanese during the tokyo trials. War crimes are as old as warfare and drumhead trials have existed since before recorded history. Spandau prison in Germany had its fair share of "war criminals" and you don't hear germans complaining about it. They admit their mistake, paid their dues and now work to be a leader in the EU. Japan on the other hand seems to have embraced the USA and let its other asian relations fall by the wayside. They have made little effort to face up to their past mistakes beyond signing surrender papers in 1945.

and just so I don't come off sounding like a nihon-hater. I love Japan, and I think the people here are really quite charming, warm and kind. They want peace and seem to call for peace when August rolls around. Perhaps they should be making a better effort at peace during the other 11 months and with her neighbors who seem to still feel the sting of invasion 60 years ago.

China is now the #1 trading partner of Japan and it doesn't look good when 10,000 people decide to march in protest, boycott japanese goods and picket the embassy. Its a reflection on a poor job of international relations by the Japanese governent, not its people.

while not directly on target this link certainly goes to the heart of the problem. Germans accept responsibility and continue to observe their role and responsibility in it http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4430133.stm

eku

2005-04-11, 05:47 AM

how come the winning side never has war criminals.......

I feel neither this way nor that about Yasukuni shrine, every country has some memorial to someone who died in some war and if they want to honour them, its up to them. I would get worried if there was, say... a shrine to Hitler to someone specific ..

waller

2005-04-11, 09:19 AM

My partner teaches at a university here. One of the courses discussed Nanking. There was utter ashonishment byt some of the students about this. They really had no idea. This is pretty shocking IMO, although I`ll gladly admit it is certainly not unique to Japan. However I do find it pretty frightening given the current situation with North Korea, China, and the role the US takes here.

donpaulo

2005-04-11, 10:44 AM

waller, your friend who taught the class, is he a foreigner ? What textbook did he use ? I am not surprised about the japanese student reaction. Most are taught that Japan suffered from the war. There is little to zero taught about japanese imperialism and the effects of this policy.

also eku the winning side does have war criminals... look at the US in Vietnam with Mi Lai village or at Abu Grave prison in Iraq. In both cases US army had trials. Granted it isn't the same but there are "war criminals" on both sides, especially when the winning side is democratic.

Also as a final thought, and on an opposite track to my former posting. Why are the Chinese trying to force Japanese domestic policy decisions ? Its not their business to decide about which japanese official goes to which shrine, or not.

I also thought the Japanese govt made a fair argument when saying that textbooks here have freedom of the press. But it was a poor decision to allow the publisher to choose a word which denies the truth of Nanking. The Germans fess up to their mistakes, why don't the Japanese ?

waller

2005-04-11, 12:04 PM

I found this. A bit old but very interesting. I am just looking for a recent article I read last week on the same topic.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656296628.html?oneclick=true

Don Paulo, yes it is an international university but I am not sure of the nationality of the teacher.

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-11, 01:42 PM

[
also eku the winning side does have war criminals... look at the US in Vietnam with Mi Lai village or at Abu Grave prison in Iraq. In both cases US army had trials. Granted it isn't the same but there are "war criminals" on both sides, especially when the winning side is democratic.

The yanks were on the 'winning side' in Vietnam??!! Shite, that one passed me by! Funny, the way it was portrayed when I was growing up was the complete reverse: You got your asses kicked!

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-11, 01:44 PM

Don Paulo - are you following in that great Japanese tradition of revising history when it suits you?

PS> I also think it's a bit early to be claiming that your boys are on the 'winning side' in Iraq as well. Let's come back in a few years and judge that one...

eku

2005-04-11, 05:58 PM

I didn't think anyone won the vietnam war..... I thought the yanks just pulled out when it looked like they wouldn't win

Eric2006

2005-04-11, 06:13 PM

The communists won the Vietnam war, Americans pulled out destroying every thing as they went. I thought it was funny when Max hastings reported they burned millions of dollers and documents that were in the American Embassy. "Why is my ___ so fat? Am I putting on weight? Oops where did that doller come from", I say to the guard as I cross the boarder.

When communism died every one moved back in with factories and hotels, same story as with Japan, who owns half the pacific which they left after the war with hotels in Hawaii and companies in Vietnam, China etc.

kanashibari

2005-04-11, 06:21 PM

don't think Koizumi is visiting his grandfather, flat out wrong to go there
a good section of my family tree was wiped out in world war two but I feel no anger and bitterness towards germany or german people at all because like you said above, they admit it and move on and built a better society. however, the japanese only ignored it and tried to build a better society, the problem is that this leaves room for it to happen again in the future which should be the #1 goal here, prevent it from happening again anywhere

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-11, 10:29 PM

Agreed. There has been a complete lack here to face up to W.W.II guilt. That A-bomb dome in Hiroshima is all about Japan as the suffering party, without any historical balance or context. Full of Junior high scholl kids walking around being told how poor little Japan had this terrible weapon used on it...makes me sick. I won't be going again unless a more balanced exhibition is added.

All countries have bloody pasts, some more than others. Britain's is particularly bad: We colonized North America, Australia, NZ, India etc. and killed / enslaved millions of native peoples in the process. And I hate revisionist British historians who try and make out how the British empire was a benign one that spreasd civilization around the globe. Any Brit spouts that shite to me and they get it, both barrels.I admit that.

Why can't the Japanese admit what they did to Asia? It's one of their most infuriating traits...

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-11, 10:32 PM

I'm in the mood for historical analysis today as I just finished watching 'The Fog of War' documentary about Robert McNamara and his role in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. It's frightening how so many of the Vietnam era sound bites are being repeated today about the war in Iraq and against terror...we never learn it seems:-(

donpaulo

2005-04-11, 10:59 PM

If you measure military objectives from the vietnam war you come to the conclusion that the US armed forces, won every major engagement, inflicted significantly more losses than they took, had strategic run of the country, spent vast sums of money on engineering projects such as the road system which is still in existence today. It was a unilateral withdrawl on US terms. If General Westmoreland had gotten the troops he asked for there is no way the north would have been able to achieve victory. As it turns out perhaps the "victory" over the US backed regime in Saigon may have cost more than it was worth paying. (although nationalism is not easily measured)
Hindsight being 20-20 now that vietnam has embraced a more open system and international trade they are now within the US sphere of influence once again. I guess what goes around comes around.
Vietnam was an indigenous movement for self rule, Iraq appears to be primarily an interanational pan arab movement for destabilization and sharia law. (a different shade of grey)
revisionism isn't purely a japanese tradition its as old as the written word.
I will grant you that saying the US won the vietnam war is a stretch.... my intention was to show that not only the losers have war criminals.

kurogane

2005-04-12, 10:59 AM

Sure but Yasukuni Jinja doesn't have the remains of Tojo and the thousands of politions who organized the war in. .

Actually, Eric the Yellow (the cat thingy there), ummm, It do have them in it. That is the nub of the problem, the crux of the biscuit, if you will. Virtually every Japanese ever killed in the service of the country is enshrined there. That is what it is for, after all.

kurogane

2005-04-12, 11:03 AM

observer

2005-04-12, 02:09 PM

Hey McTojo,

You are still around! Glad to see you here.
I did decide to stay away from those rocks floating in the electronic sea, so can I park here for a while?

Who knows, maybe you and I could find a point of intersection somehow? Unlikely as it seems, anything can happen in this electronic world! Time to be observing now...

(And of course, feel free to drop by on China vs Japan thread. I am having a fun down there... I thought you would want to say something - how come you are so quiet?)

observer

2005-04-13, 10:07 AM

Sure but Yasukuni Jinja doesn't have the remains of Tojo and the thousands of politions who organized the war in. Imagine your grand farther was conscripted into the army in WW2 and the Germans or some thing said why are you going to visit his grave, he was part of the bombing or thousands of civilians in Berlin.

The Chinese should except that all Japanese in WW2 were not evil and all Chinese, Americans British were not saints.

You see, the thing is, as Kurogane mentioned, those top generals and architects of the Pacific war are enshrined down there along with everyone else. If the place is honoring mere conscripts and foot soldiers, then there will be much less of a problem. I get the feeling the Chinese nationalists may not be satisfied until the place is razed flat, but at least that will go some distance to placate many Koreans. In fact, that is the typical line coming from many of the Koreans - just get those few top-level f"#$"ers out of there, and we might just let it go.

But yeah, we can't place blame on every Japanese soldier who fought - many of them were just following the draft order - they didn't have much of a choice. But those guys at the top should be held responsible though, right?

observer

2005-04-13, 10:13 AM

When communism died every one moved back in with factories and hotels, same story as with Japan, who owns half the pacific which they left after the war with hotels in Hawaii and companies in Vietnam, China etc.

Yeah, it has got quite a bit of truth there... Ironic, isn't it? In hindsight, the Japanese should have tried this 60, 70 years ago - money might have worked better than all the weapons...

It does make me wonder though - without the history of aggression, could Japan be doing economically even better in China than they are now? Who knows...

mcalpine

2005-04-13, 10:24 AM

To hell with China and Korea !

we will not cowtow to no senkokujin nor any other asian race. I am sick and tired of people talking about removing the great general from Yasukuni ! I feel like puking right now !
Observer you need to stop trying to rationalize with Koreans and Chinese. Those people are pathetic ! And I care nothing about their feelings ! This is JAPAN and as long as you are here you need to show a little more respect ! So what if we murdered thousands of Chinese, there's a million more left ! They multiply like rats over there !

I haven't had a chance to read the other posters comments yet but, hear this, I am back !

General McTojo is Back in full spendor !!

stillnosheep

2005-04-17, 06:04 PM

that be the spirit!

still at least you cannot be related to the Macalpine brothers of the "killed more Irish than the British army ever managed" ilk.

Guy Ginpot

2005-04-18, 04:44 PM

The Glorious Forces of Histropic Inevitabilty Triumphed in the Battle for the Expulsion from the Heavenly Fatherland of the Running Dog Imperialist Capitalist Bloodsucking Semen-spreading Yankee PigDogs.
Name the only other country to enjoy this honour.
First correct answer gets large share of Electric Pocky, which are belong to Bluedog.

And those suckers better not try it again, because our muskets are still loaded.

Is that the same pocky I stole from you to give to Bluedog?

gg

ps: still coming to Vangroover in May? I believe the beer's on me.

Hyakushiki

2005-04-20, 04:45 PM

Nevermind.

Mr or Mrs Smith

2005-04-20, 05:45 PM

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

kanashibari

2005-04-20, 06:35 PM

i believe they have never formally put this in an apology, they do not put it in textbooks , in fact most of the common people here know very little of it , so i would say there is a long way to go in preventing it from happening again in the future, a few exhibits just doesn't reach the masses here.

Mr or Mrs Smith

2005-04-20, 06:48 PM

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

kurogane

2005-04-20, 10:22 PM

On the subject of a formal appology- what exactly would that be?

The emperor, son of heaven, bringer of light and warmlets, and most importantly Head of State, rather than just the current head of government, using the word Apology, rather than regrettably euphemistic phrases like Regrettable.

After that, and this is the political beauty of My Strategy, Those who will continue to whine will look like just that, Whiners.

Mr or Mrs Smith

2005-04-21, 09:28 AM

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

waller

2005-04-21, 10:24 AM

Just reading a student`s journal. Here is what she says: "I watched TV about Chinese people doing demonstration. They are too hard to us. Japanese want peace but Chinese do not. This problem is important"

I bet she has no idea of what her country did just 60 years ago. It is dangerous to have generations of young people with no idea of their history. It scares me and makes me angry. I am not saying my country has not pulled the same whitewash in certain areas, ie treatment of native Maori people but at least they are trying to redress this now. Nor am I saying that I like many of the policies of the Chinese government but if Japan wants to be considered a responsible member of the world community it should take responsibility for its past actions and quit shovelling lies down the throats of its kids.

I wrote back telling her to find out more about a city called Nanking and what happened there. This will be interesting as it's gonna go through a couple of Japanese teachers on the way back to the student.

kurogane

2005-04-22, 03:47 AM

My GF told me I was too hard the other day, too. Funny that.

Nice post.

waller

2005-04-22, 09:23 AM

Japanese teacher has not spoken to me or made eye contact since.

mcalpine

2005-04-23, 06:04 AM

You never never never should have done what you did in recommending that young girl read up on Nanking ! I hope you get fired for that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shame shame shame on you !!!!!!!

Listen and listen good:

1) I am so pissed I don't even know where to start !
2) Japanese people don't know how to cope with guilt let alone the truth. They see suicide as a way of coping with guilt. What you did was suggest that she read up on one of the most ugliest moments of history about Japan. How do you think she will feel after learning the truth Waller ??? You think she will start her own crusade against the Ministry of Education ?
Hell no ! She is going to feel an overwhelming since of guilt and shame about her country and about her place in society and the world as a Japanese person !
3) You have teachers in Tokyo who are also trying to go against the old ways by not singing the Kimigayu ! further instilling in them a since of misbalance and confusion ! If young Japanese people grow up with too much freedom without having direction then they become misfits in society and join cult groups like Aum and do stupid things like go overseas forever for no reason whatsoever !
4) What you need to do as a teacher Waller is to instill within your students a sense of nation pride and interest within Japan ! You should never make them feel guilt about China !!!!!!!
China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! How can you be so myopic minded !!!!!!!!!!!!! and can you be so blind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 300,000 Chinese died in six weeks, boooohooohb ooohoobobbooo... I am crying ; tears are flowing down my cheeks right now ! I feel sorry for those poor poor Chinese people who's own leader murdered millions and millions of their own people. And you Waller have the audacity to try and make a Japanese student feel guilt about that ?????????????????????If you were in China and did the same thing to a Chinese student about Mao Tse Chung you would have been fired and jumped !
How dare you spread your nonsense !
5) Japan has major social and future issues at hand right now !!!!! The psychological mindset in this country is so fragile that in twenty years time there will be no moral or social backbone to hold this society together at all.
6) We have a declining work force because young Japanese people want to live abroad so that they can chase the American dream !!! Because in Japan they see no way to happiness !
7) Nobody wants to work and be responsible anymore ! They only like Mcdonalds and cellphones and having sex with nasty old salary men so that they can earn that coin to buy the Gucci bag !
8) We need a new generation of young militant Japanese people to take the forefront ! We need them to be armed with the tools necessary to carry Japan into the 21st Century !! Tools like knowledge and understanding about where Japan has been and where Japan needs to go !
We need young people who value life in Japan because Japan is their only home !!!! We need young people to feel a sense of respect and dignity for their leaders and when they don't agree then stand up and say something !
9) They need to visit the Yasukuni Jinjya more and appreciate the rich cultural heritage of this great nation !!!!!! Japan is great !!!!! Japan is GReat !!!!! Japan is GReat !!!!!!!!
10) Making young Japanese people aware of what really happened about Nanking is not only bad timing but stupid as well !!! It's okay for adults to come to terms with their ugly past but don't go making young people feel that they have a responsibility to learn this Truth ! There are other far more important issues at hand !!!
Long live the Emperor !

You need to gracefully bow out Waller and leave Japan .

2paclives

2005-04-23, 12:25 PM

Don`t know how to take the starter of this thread!

As a descendant of black slaves taken from Africa to America to till the land of white folks with no pay and beatings/rapes, plus legal discrimination until the 60s, I`m aware of how `the good guys in World War 2` treated minorities in their own countries for centuries. BUT -

I just can`t agree with the relativity line. America/other western countries/Japan during World 2 were the same? Damn, that`s spitting on the graves of the Chinese and others! Thats falling for the sucker line spun by aplogists for fascism! For the millions of Japanese who don`t want to know jack, who to this day think that they are above other Asian folks, who continue to discrminate in ways legal and private against just about everybody!

How`s Japan ever gonna move out of that racist, destructive, cosy, everyday mindset if they`re allowed to continue with delusions of how Japan did what every other country did in the War? They were the Nazis of Asia - and they did eggactly what the Nazis did except for have their own Holocaust. And if they had won the War, that probably would have come later with the `Inferior Asian` folks.

Bottom line - the good ol USA rewarded Japan for its butchery and sexual attacks on countless Asian folks by building Japan up, whitewashing its war record and giving them privileges China and Korea didn`t get. That`s the heart of the problem, but the Japanese also want to behave like children who can`t accept the truth. The Allies de-programmed Nazi Germany`s folks but as yet the Japanese haven`t been de-programmed.

To the point where Japanese can say to me in class - `We don`t hate Americans becasue they dropped the Atomic Bomb`. Evil though those damned bombs were, the Japanese don`t want to know one simple fact - waves upon waves upon waves of Japanese soldiers filled with hatred attacked, raped, murdered, tortured millions of Asians. Not one time in an `incident@ (Hur, hur I love that word!) but over a period of years, over months. Those Japanese were Nazis right down to the extermination policies. That`s the difference. Period.

Japanese folks have to grow up, join the real world, and take some responsiblity for their denial. Deny the Government a seat on the UN Security Council and watch those Yasukuni visits to the resting place of Japanese Nazis become a thing of the past! It`s the only way!

Guy Ginpot

2005-04-23, 03:53 PM

2paclives

Nice post. You offer a rational and compelling argument, in stark contrast to the insane racist rants of mcalpine. I believe that the Japanese do need to come to terms with their country’s role in WWII and the years leading up to the war. What I’m not sure about is how they go about dealing with Yasukuni shrine and how to differentiate between the common foot soldier and the war criminal.

The simple solution would be to remove the certified war criminals from the shrine and retain it as the national war memorial. Every country has a place in which to honour their war dead and I don’t think it would be right for Japan to just give up the right to do likewise [not that you said that]. We must remember that not so long ago, the communication systems that we now enjoy did not exist. The vast majority of Japanese war dead were simply loyal soldiers who must have had little real news about what was really going on in the world.

Nevertheless, the gist of what you say has great value. The Japanese are not children. We shouldn’t have to tip toe around the issue of WWII with them. Waller’s gesture to the student may have been a little harsh, but it comes down to simply looking someone directly in the eye and coming clean with what we understand to be the truth.

gg

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-23, 05:13 PM

Just reading a student`s journal. Here is what she says: "I watched TV about Chinese people doing demonstration. They are too hard to us. Japanese want peace but Chinese do not. This problem is important" [ . . . ] I wrote back telling her to find out more about a city called Nanking and what happened there. This will be interesting as it's gonna go through a couple of Japanese teachers on the way back to the student.

Wow! I most certainly admire your testicular fortitude. 'Cause I don't think I would have had the balls to do that. C'mon McTojo, even you've gotta respect an act of absurd bravery such as that.

BTW, what age was the student? If it had been a university student, then I would probably have done the same, but if we're talking a junior high kid, I think that would have been out of line.

More to say on this subject, but I've gotta run.

aha yes

2005-04-23, 06:02 PM

8) We need a new generation of young militant Japanese people to take the forefront ! We need them to be armed with the tools necessary to carry Japan into the 21st Century !! Tools like knowledge and understanding about where Japan has been and where Japan needs to go !
I think that's what waller was trying to arm the poor girl with... Look at her journal. She's at a total loss to understand why the Chinese are banging on her country's door. This flare up may pass for now, but until people on both sides get informed it's gonna keep coming back until somebody -- probably not China -- gets bit in the ___. Whether the truth about what happened in Nanjing 60 years ago has any value to Tojo, all the Diet guys who went to Yasukuni yesterday, or to waller's student, it obviously means something to a whooooole lot of Chinese people and probably to much of the rest of the world, so Japan has to deal with it. As long as the Japanese guvment keeps its people blind, it's limiting its own future fitting into the world. Not to put this all on Japan, I'd say the same about China. Crap like these riots will come back to haunt them too.

BTW, been to the Nanjing Massacre museum. It's set down in a mass grave, so the walls are glass-lined dirt, skulls and bones.

And while waller's gesture probably didn't do much to help his image with the Japanese faculty -- and like Zap said I think it depends on how old the girl is -- it's not harsh by my standards given the context. I take it he'd do the same to a student in his country. So I don't think he was excessively pushing his own country's or China's standards. It's just there's teachers who mold an army of hollow non-thinkers for the status quo, and there's those that throw in the monkeywrench of 'critical thinking' when they can -- if it doesn't kill them, it'll make 'em stronger.

You need to gracefully bow out Waller and leave Japan .
ANd please stay in Japan Tojo. I dig your hyper style. Reminds me of those guys at Shibuya station who are always standing on their vans shouting through loudspeakers to a bunch of blissfully unaware shoppers and cell-phone toting punk kids. And pigeons. This is the place for you. The last thing the States needs back is one of its reject ranting right wing nuts.

Timmy!!

2005-04-24, 09:01 AM

It would be like German PM Schroeder going to visit a shrine in Berlin with Hermann Goering and Hitlers remains inside them, to pay his respects to German war heroes. Would do wonders for Franco-German relations.

Are you trying to start a flame war here?

Already been done. Kohl and others have spoken at SS remembrance services, which always had a large Neo-Nazi contingent present, and allowed all SS veterans to receive state pensions, which was banned under the armistice. To be fair, I don't know what Schroder does, but it's not like German war veterans are completely ignored.

stillnosheep

2005-04-24, 11:41 AM

ANd please stay in Japan Tojo.... This is the place for you. The last thing the States needs back is one of its reject ranting right wing nuts.
Hear hear!

(i believe some people call it irony)

kurogane

2005-04-25, 05:54 PM

Don`t know how to take the starter of this thread! !

Umm, with about a pound of salt, would be my gut reaction.

How`s Japan ever gonna move out of that racist, destructive, cosy, everyday mindset if they`re allowed to continue with delusions of how Japan did what every other country did in the War? They were the Nazis of Asia - and they did eggactly what the Nazis did except for have their own Holocaust. And if they had won the War, that probably would have come later with the `Inferior Asian` folks.
Bottom line - the good ol USA rewarded Japan for its butchery and sexual attacks on countless Asian folks by building Japan up, whitewashing its war record and giving them privileges China and Korea didn`t get. That`s the heart of the problem, but the Japanese also want to behave like children who can`t accept the truth. The Allies de-programmed Nazi Germany`s folks but as yet the Japanese haven`t been de-programmed.

Agreed on the top part, no on the Nazi part (they were militarist nationalists, but not necesssarily genocidal fascists), and maybe the reason the Grand Force of Darkness and Repression (the United States of Aggresica?) went so lightly on the Japanese was they saw a mirror image of their own imperialist arrogance and folly, and also saw a potential ally for their coming domination of the Brown People through the chimera of Global Free Trade and the Spread of Democracy (which in most languages of the world is synonymous with the spread of Pain and Suffering of the Many for the Benefit of the Few, the Proud, The Stupid Brainwashed American People(not all, of course)).

Those Japanese were Nazis right down to the extermination policies. That`s the difference. Period.!
Umm, again, No. See above for this point.

Deny the Government a seat on the UN Security Council and watch those Yasukuni visits to the resting place of Japanese Nazis become a thing of the past! It`s the only way!
Umm, No. Apologise at the state level, rewrite the rewritten history books, and keep visiting Yasukuni. The souls of the vanquished deserve their repect, too.

waller

2005-04-25, 11:09 PM

Well I don"t know about testicular whatever, cos I am not a boy actually but a girl. But that"s got ____ all to do with it. Anyway, Harsh? Really, I am surprised to hear people say that. To me it is a matter of education and I am a teacher. The student is second year senior high school , 17 or so, which would be nearly old enough to sign up for the army should the need arise , so in my book old enough to know about a place called Nanking and what happened there. To me , it"s as simple as that. It happened. She should know. Just like we white NZers should have learned what happened in our country"s early days of colonialisation but didn"t. As for getting offside with the Japanese staff, well I know that there are those who would agree with a more honest history being taught (I notice the ones who refuse to sing the anthem at ceremony time) and those who wouldn"t. I am not too worried what the latter group think of me.

kurogane

2005-04-25, 11:11 PM

The idea that a junior high school student is too young to know her country's history is pretty weird, you waller bashers.

Waller,
Youze a girl? Cool, either way. You go!

aha yes

2005-04-25, 11:33 PM

Well I don"t know about testicular whatever, cos I am not a boy actually but a girl. But that"s got ____ all to do with it.
No kidding waller?! I've called you 'he' and 'his' like 100 times, and I think even 'sir' once. Sorry...

waller

2005-04-26, 10:21 AM

That's Ok. I did point it out once or twice but it doesn't matter to me.
Update - the teacher who I thought was freezing me out is fine now. Maybe she really was mad there for a while or maybe I was imagining things.

kimonolover

2005-04-26, 11:02 AM

Um have you noticed how China, the USA and others handle the war? They accuse others, call names and nurse grudges. From what I can tell, JApan is the only participant who has any level of maturity. They have appologised more than any one else, and every participant has something to appologise for.

OH, 2paclives, I'm going to restrain my self here, but JApan really DID do what every other major power in that time did, whatever they felt they had to to get ahead of their rivals.

Oh, 2pac is morally, utterly corupt.

Since 1853, Japan had been threatened and intimidated by ameriKKKa and JApan is the only country who wasn't colonized by a western empire (until 1945). The US is guilty of cultural genocide (which contributes to the social problems un Japan today, genocide, and many other horrific crimes.

Have some fun here and remember that none of the mutilated, twisted figures that you will see invaded china, bombed pearl harbor, or did anything to participate in the war else except commit the crime of being Japanese, a crime that so help me God, I too will commit!

http://history.independence.co.jp/ww2/raid/f01.jpg

http://history.independence.co.jp/ww2/eng/phtop.html

sweet dreams!

Oh, while I'm here, I'll go ahead and waste a few more minutes. China is a regional bully and has been since the commies took over. If you think Nanjing was bad, it was, but it was a walk in the park to what the commies did to THEIR OWN PPL! tens of millions of Chinese were brutally murdered by the Chinese govt after WWII!

China was tormented by many years of being preyed on by the west and cival wars. Both of these caused great civilian casualties and destroyed many cities. During the Opium Wars, the Brits burned cities and the summer palace over freakin' opium.

This is about the time Commodore Perry showed up with his fleet of warships asking Japan if they wanted to participatye in a 'mutua'l trade relationship. Um, it was really the same as the opium trade, except it was detestable clothing and western greed. JApan was forced to except this unfair trade deal. If you don't think they were forced, what do you think would have happened if Japan had said we want no part of it? If I enter your house with a loaded gun? I'm forcing you do something even if I only say "Would you mind...".

OK, back on task, China suffered many civilian casualties largely due to warlords terrorizing the population to get cooperation and because of guerilla style tictics which were largely employed by all except the Japanese who had to adopt the 'shoot first and ask questions later' policy. This tragic policy also comes hand in hand with guerilla warfare.

honestly, I know little of the Unit 731 thing. All i know is that no evidence of it existed until recently, and ameriKKKa and China have been using is a bargaining chip since they dug it up (or created it).

Did you know that the Chinese captured Japanese soldiers and kept them in "re-education" facilities for 10-15 years after the war? Yes, the Communists, who are known for their experimentation in conditioning the mind, "re-educated" Japanese in China and released them when there "fit to return to society". This sounds like a movie. Well, it's reality. What do you think these people were "re-educated" to think? I think it's entirely possible that they were brainwashed to believe that they were guilty of these unbelieveable crimes, so the Communists could manhandle JApan for political and economic reasons for an indeffinate period. This is so classic Comminist regin\me-esque! It's something they would do and it's somethng that every Communist regime has done on some scale.

Back to the WWII thing...

After Japan was driven out, the Chinese cival war continued until the Communists took over. in that time both sides killed on suspicion of alligiance to their enemy. The Communists especially commited brutal executions. There are accounts where hundreds of people were beheaded for not swearing alligiance to the Communists. In the late 1940s - 1950s, a synthesized famine killed 20 million people. Mao's gang of three roamed all over China terrorizing and killing at will it is estimated that Mao Zedong and his regime killed 60-100 million people during his political career. To add to this, Mao Zedong liked 12 year/old girls. He wasn't just a womanizer, he was a child rapist. The Chinese government is utterly, corrupt. There is no moral ground for China to criticize JApan honoring her war dead.

Many Americans who are enshirned are war criminals, but because ameriKKKa won, they were off Scott free.

I just need to organise thins thing so it flows like cold water. I'm thirsty! OK, I'm off 'till next time!

Morning Star

2005-04-26, 02:38 PM

Um have you noticed how China, the USA and others ... tens of millions of Chinese were brutally murdered by the Chinese govt after WWII! ...Commodore Perry showed up with his fleet of warships...China suffered many civilian casualties largely due to warlords...I know little of the Unit 731 thing... guilty of these unbelieveable crimes, so the ...Back to the WWII thing...Mao Zedong liked 12 year/old girls...
And if Japan taught their history as well as you have just regurgitated it, then there wouldn't be a problem, would there?

By the way, how are the plans to come to Japan coming along? Still hate your family?

donpaulo

2005-04-26, 06:15 PM

As far as I know Japan hasn't paid as much money as Germany has, nor has Japan embraced the renewed internationalism which Germany has.
The German history book was co-edited by Polish editors. Japanese history books aren't co-edited by Koreans or Chinese.
Comfort women ? hello what about that ? hardcore denial there.

Did the Chinese government commit war crimes ? certainly. Two wrongs don't make a right. Japan needs to fess up for big time mistakes. Koizumi's apology was a good thing but has occurred far too rarely . This only empowers the hard core conservatives in China.

The facts are that Japan does give money to China, but does a TERRIBLE job marketing their efforts.

The facts are that Japanese can visit the shrine if they want to. Its really none of China's business, but Chinese have the right to complain about it.

Japanese war crimes are a permanent part of the history of this country. The sooner it is openly discussed the better.

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-26, 07:49 PM

I admit to having very mixed views on the subject. On a personal level, I'm very antiwar and anti-military. In the past I have refused to wear the poppy on Remembrance Day (Veterans Day to you Yanks) because I found the November 11 ceremonies to be a glorification of Canada's role in what was in fact nothing but a senseless mass slaughter of young men all for the sake of greedy plutocrats and their colonial empire-building agendas. I have participated in numerous antiwar protests over the years, and helped organize a number of rallies against the war in Iraq. I am pretty much as antiwar as they come, and as such am repelled by the sort of jingoistic flag-waving displays that go on at Yasukuni Shrine. I have visited the shrine once, and I was personally disgusted by the shrine museum, which appeared to me to be nothing but a glorification of Japan's military past and a whitewashing of the horrific crimes that Japanese troops committed during the Second World War.

This aside, though, I don't really see how Koizumi's trips to Yasukuni are any different from, say, President Bush's trips to the Arlington National Cemetery in Washington, America's Yasukuni, or for that matter Canada's celebration of Remembrance Day. While it arguably may not shrine war criminals to compare with Gen. Tojo or Gen. Matsui Iwane (the commander in charge of the troops in Nanjing), the Arlington Cemetery does enshrine Confederate generals who fought to maintain slavery in the United States, as well as murderers of Native Americans in the so-called "Indian Wars" and of course the perpetrators of the Philippine and Vietnam Wars, bloodbaths in the name of colonialism and global hegemony. We Canadians, as I mentioned earlier, commemorate Canada's participation in the First World War, when over 60,000 young Canadians met their deaths under the criminally insane leadership of British Field Marshall Sir Douglas Haig, and while Remembrance Day purports to be a celebration of peace and a lament of the lives lost, Canadians tend to use the occasion to wax poetic about the Canadian army's victories at Vimy Ridge (1917) and elsewhere. And while much is said about the Canadian lives lost, virtually no mention is ever made about the number of German soldiers killed by Canadians. (Of the Canadian websites on the Battle of Vimy Ridge that I've found, not ONE gives the number of Germans killed.)

I suppose my point is that while I am personally repulsed by the unabashed romanticization of war and the enshrinement of war criminals at Yasukuni, and I personally would not go there to pay homage (although I do believe it is a very important historical site), I think it's rather hypocritical of the rest of the world to insist that Japanese people (including the Prime Minister) refuse to do the same while they continue to pay homage to their fallen soldiers, including participants in and instigators of thoroughly dodgy wars fought for all the wrong reasons. Imagine what the American reaction would be if Japan or anyone else tried to force Bush to stop visiting the Arlington Cemetery. There would probably be laughter, and Koizumi would invariably get a stern lecture from the Whitehouse on minding his own business. And for those who say, "But what about the Germans? They don't pay homage to Hitler, Ribbentrop, Goebbels et al.," while this is for the most part true, the arch criminals of the Nazi Party are more easily identifiable as 'Nazis' which makes one able to weed out the nastiest of the bunch while allowing one to pay homage to the 'average German soldier' who simply had the misfortune to be born into an era of state-sanctioned murder. The Japanese, on the other hand, do not have that luxury - all from Tojo down are lumped together as 'the Japanese.'

My suggestion, if my views carried any weight in Nagatacho, would be for Koizumi and the leadership of Japan to give Yasukuni Shrine something of a makeover, and to make it clear that the Prime Minister is there not to pay homage to war criminals, but to commemorate the Japanese lives that were lost in World War Two. While many people (myself included) may disagree on a personal level, I believe that it is a people's right to commemorate their war dead in a fashion traditional to that society. A conscientious attempt to clean up Yasukuni and eradicate as much of the war-glorifying elements as possible might pave the way for a more palatable, Remembrance Day-style commemoration of Japan's war dead. Not that that would shut up Beijing on the issue, but it would at least put Japan on a higher moral ground and in a better position to call the Chinese government on its own hypocrisy.

As for the other issues (compensation money, history textbooks etc.), I think they are entirely separate from the shrine visit issue. And if it wasn't for these other lingering wartime bogeymen, it's quite possible that Koizumi's visits to Yasukuni Shrine would never have become such a big deal. Addressing these ought to be paramount for the Japanese government, and if it were to do so in a conscientious manner, people might simply forget about Yasukuni. The Chinese Communist Party probably wouldn't, but it would give them a lot less political ammo against Japan.

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-26, 09:22 PM

Excellent post Zap! I thoroughly agree with you on all points, particularly the criminally insane leadership of that W.W.I prick, 'Fieldmarshall' Haig. That arrogant hooray Henry sent hundreds of thousands of young Brits (16,000 fell on the first day of the Somme offensive, for fack sake) , Canadians, ANZACS and other Commonwealth troops to their deaths in ill thought out campaigns of attrition. There wasn't one village in Britain that didn't lose some men in that war (my own village lost 26 men out of a population of 180 at the time), and the sheer scale of the causalties beggars belief to this day. The whole war was a mass meat grinder from start to finish. At the end, the Germans were too heavily punished and thus some of the conditions for Hitler's emergence were laid at the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.

What still pisses me off though is the fact that war and the military are still held in high regard in the UK, with Remembrance Day an excuse to talk about the glory of our historical regiments and other such bull. Going into the military is still seen as an honourable career choice in the UK, and people never fail to brag about how their son/brother/father is in the service.

At least in Japan the overall concept of the military is viewed with suspicion, and many Japanese have told me that joining the SDF is not considered glamorous, cool, or worthy of respect and adulation. So in this sense at least, I feel the Japanese have learnt the lessons of past wars more fully than either the UK or the USA.

With this in mind, I find it personally embarassing and shameful at the moment to tell people I'm from the UK, which has got to be one of the most violent, rapacious, war-mongering countries ever shat into existence... I wish I was from Sweden or summink

jonnyrobinson

2005-04-26, 09:28 PM

Oh yeah, and the hypocrisy of the UK and US stinks: all our killing is done in the name of freedom and democracy, while anybody else's is a 'terroristic' act or part of a plan for global hegemony, like the old USSR.

Case in point: Churchill, who despite the fact he was a racist, patronising, mysoginistic, imperialist old git, is still revered by large sections of both the British and American public.

Blues

2005-04-26, 10:41 PM

Seems that we all agree that Jpanese students are misinformed, when it comes to their nation`s role in World War two, but has any of you ever spoken with any Chinese students about China`s role in World War two? They are just as misinformed as the Japanese. On average they have no Idea that foreigners actually fought and died for China or that the " spent men and money and delivered needed weapons to China. If anything they have been taught that it was China and China alone, who saved the world. The point is this: We all have miscontrued thoughts on history and our individual governments have aided in this miscontruction.

kurogane

2005-04-27, 01:24 AM

[QUOTE=kimonolover]Um have you noticed how China, the USA and others handle the war? They accuse others, call names and nurse grudges. From what I can tell, JApan is the only participant who has any level of maturity. They have appologised more than any one else, and every participant has something to appologise for. [QUOTE]
Damn! The boy has a brain.
Nice post. The problem with the apology is that it has never been a full state level apology, only a cabinet level apology. That is a big issue here in East Asia. The Japanese have nothing to apologise to the US for, that was two empires slugging it out.
Long live Yasukuni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arginjapan

2005-04-27, 01:55 AM

You're turn to listen and listen good;

1) I am so pissed I don't even know where to start !

Would you rather have to deal with one person being pissed than a nation of 1.2 billion being pissed. Bit more of a problem, don't you think?

2) Japanese people don't know how to cope with guilt let alone the truth.

Well they'd better start learning, because the Chinese and Koreans don't look like they are going to forget anytime soon about what happened during the war. As much as the Japanese would love that to happen...

3)If young Japanese people grow up with too much freedom without having direction then they become misfits in society and join cult groups like Aum and do stupid things like go overseas forever for no reason whatsoever !

As opposed to seventy years ago, when the Japanese had far less liberty than they do now-I mean, the military autocrats that ran Japan certainly didn't do anything stupid, now did they?

China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! How can you be so myopic minded !!!!!!!!!!!!! and can you be so blind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 300,000 Chinese died in six weeks, boooohooohb ooohoobobbooo... I am crying

What you should be crying about is the fact that the 750 missles pointed at Taiwan could easily be pointed at Japan; that the Chinese have had and been developing advanced nuclear weapons for decades now; that the Chinese economy is growing at 9% per year; that they have the largest military in the world at their disposal. And that they are mighty pissed at you.

5) Japan has major social and future issues at hand right now !!!!! The psychological mindset in this country is so fragile that in twenty years time there will be no moral or social backbone to hold this society together at all.

Yup, and one of the biggest future issues is what is China gonna do? As your reliance on their economy increases, as well as their power, there is a good chance Japan will be supplanted as a major power in the East and in the world. Best you use the time well how to become a proper vassal useful to your future Chinese overlords, and how you might serve them so they may spare what's left of your country and culture.

Mcalpine, I implore you, I beseech you and your countrymen not to waste this valuable time denying the enormity of your guilt and the depth of your crimes, but to instead embrace the new reality of your impending irrelevancy and utter domination by the Chinese. Waste not a moment! Pledge your undying fealty now to your soon-to-be Chinese masters and prevent the cultural, political and military tsunami that is about to engulf your fragile and fading nation from leaving it nothing more than a memory!!

kurogane

2005-04-27, 02:15 AM

McAlpine ain't no Japanese. Just a screaming American trollbot. I rub him for it, though.

Nice points, though.

What do you think about the Yasukuni visits?

arginjapan

2005-04-27, 02:40 AM

What do you think about the Yasukuni visits?

Difficult to sayl; as we both know, seldom are things black and white. Much as I'd like to, I can't pass judgement on the visits as being insensitive or insulting. On the one hand yes, they do house Class A war criminals, which was an unfortunate decision to enshrine them there because they do house other casualties as well who were just doing what they were told/ordered to do.

I think that Yasukuni would not have become such a big issue had the Japanese taken more concrete steps in addressing the issue of their wartime agression in China and Korea before now-like you said there had never been a formal, state-level apology from the Emperor himself. Anyone who has spent anytime in Japan will know that even now the Japanese are extremely reluctant to have an honest, open and frank discussion of the historical facts, which can in no way be disputed. Yasukuni reminds China and Korea every year of what they see as an arrogant and unrepentive neighbor who has yet to fully apologise for what it has done and glorifies the very individuals that perpetrated the actions they are trying so hard to downplay. And in their defence that is what Japan appears to be-since there has been no national reckoning on the scale that there was in Germany, nor has there been as comprehensive accounting of what they have done.

kimonolover

2005-04-27, 03:01 AM

kimonolover

2005-04-27, 03:06 AM

Oh, There's nothing weird about a hight school student not knowing his or her own history. In america, Noone knows anything about history except for Pearl Harbor and a messed up version of the 'Cival War'.

observer

2005-04-27, 03:19 AM

Um, pacifism will NEVER work coz SOMEONE will always be militaristic. Also, pacifists are usually lacking in moral backkbone. JApan's society is loosing it's traditions and westernizing. This is bad. As traditions, traditional values, and kimonos fall out of favor, the society of JApan continues to unravel. This is absolute evil and must be stoped.
.

Did McTojo hack into this guy's account?
Or is this guy McTojo's long-lost brother?

And I am sure his parents would be saying...
"Um, pacifism will NEVER work coz SOMEONE will always be TERRORIST. Also, pacifists are usually lacking in moral backkbone. AMERICA's society is loosing it's traditions. This is bad. As traditions, traditional values, and BIBLES fall out of favor, the society of AMERICA continues to unravel. This is absolute evil and must be stoped."

Does that sound familiar?

kimonolover

2005-04-27, 06:09 AM

Hi,

Yes, I would say that about America as well as Japan. As japan (and America) became more and more materialistic and morally post modern, these societies became increasingly corrupt. America is more and more violent. Crime in JApan is very low, but is increasing. People have lost their sense of purpose in life. Suicide and mental disorders are increasing. So, losing kimonos, tradition, and that sort of stuff leads to social decay. If God isn't real, than the only reason I should do something or not do something is coz I want to.

I'm not hacked into by McTojo, nor am I his long-lost brother, not am I an evil clone possessed by an alien entity on a mission to take over the earth. However, I do think he demonstrates intelligence.

And to further elaborate on PPL being ignorant of history, few high-school-aged Americans know much of their history. They don't know why the US fought the Brits for independance, they don't know about the 'Cival War', they don't know jack about WWII except that Pearl HArbor was bombed by 'buck-toothed rats, the bataan death march, midway, nanjing, comfort girls and victory. They will sit in class for 1.5 hours or whatever and talk about the cruelty of the JApanese the entire time and not cover a single historically significant event. They know nothing except that they are righteous and JApan is perpetually evil. They could spend hours talking about communist attrocities that have been commited SINCE WWII. China has threatened Tiawan and the US with nuclear weapons. It'll be funny when the JApan haters get a dose of their own medicine from the enemy they refused to recognise!

observer

2005-04-27, 10:28 AM

Yes, I would say that about America as well as Japan. As japan (and America) became more and more materialistic and morally post modern, these societies became increasingly corrupt. America is more and more violent. Crime in JApan is very low, but is increasing. People have lost their sense of purpose in life. Suicide and mental disorders are increasing. So, losing kimonos, tradition, and that sort of stuff leads to social decay. If God isn't real, than the only reason I should do something or not do something is coz I want to.

Al'right, then shouldn't you fight that moral decay at home by picking up your Bible and going to your Sunday schools? And your parents might as well say that?

(Not that I believe that is the best way to preserve social orders anyway, but some people do believe that, and it seems like your parents are one of them.)

However, I do think he demonstrates intelligence.

Oh, McTojo? Yes, he does demonstrate intelligence - of a sort. He manages to entertain us with his posts - I wouldn't be able to do that even if I tried. It is a gift.

China has threatened Tiawan and the US with nuclear weapons. It'll be funny when the JApan haters get a dose of their own medicine from the enemy they refused to recognise!

So you wanna fight with China? Al'right, then go ahead. Enlist in the US army and pray to your Yasukuni 5 times a day they send you to the Pacific. Then you will have your chance to guard against your "enemy" all you want.
(But judging from the situation, I think the more likely scenario would be they will try to make a "liberator" out of you in Iraq. Perhaps you can work your way up to China)

Me? No thanks.

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-27, 02:10 PM

With this in mind, I find it personally embarassing and shameful at the moment to tell people I'm from the UK, which has got to be one of the most violent, rapacious, war-mongering countries ever shat into existence... I wish I was from Sweden or summink

Every country has ugliness in its history, including Sweden, which at one time was the greatest naval force in Northern Europe, and spent the better part of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries terrorizing its neighbours. Finland languished until Swedish occupation until 1809 when it was lost to Russia, and was fighting wars against Denmark and Norway until well into the nineteenth century. The Swedes were also heavily involved in the slave trade in Africa for a time, although they were eventually overshadowed by the Dutch. And of course way back in the day, Swedish Vikings raided and pillaged the entire Baltic region and extended their influence deep into what is now Russia. 'Rus,' the etymological origin of the name Russia, is the name of a Swedish Viking clan, and the modern word 'slave' derives from the indigenous people of the region that the Vikings conquered, the 'Slavs.'

I suppose there's a statute of limitations on these things. After all, nobody seems annoyed that the people of Mongolia regularly pay homage to the tomb of Genghis Khan in spite of the fact he killed upwards to fifteen million people during his horde's five-year rampage through Central Asia, or that Ivan the Terrible is still something of a revered figure in Russia in spite of the fact that although he primarily killed his own people he is responsible for subduing much of Russia's eastern frontier at the expense of its indigenous inhabitants. Shaka Zulu is revered by his descendents in spite of having been a murderous despot. And Canada too has plenty of skeletons in its closet, from the selling of smallpox-infested blankets to its Natives to the suppression of the Metis to the internment of Japanese-Canadians during WW2. Yeah, Britain has plenty of blood on its hands, but so does everybody else.

kurogane

2005-04-27, 03:19 PM

JApan's society is loosing it's traditions and westernizing. This is bad. As traditions, traditional values, and kimonos fall out of favor, the society of JApan continues to unravel. This is absolute evil and must be stoped.

I will say more later, but now, I need to look at a friend's car.

I disagree. Japan will probably never westernise in any meaningful sense. You are looking at the surface and imputing significance. Fault 1.

What Japan is doing is modernising.

Now, I do appreciate how you managed to weave the loss of kimonos into your commentary. While I am genuinely pleased to find out that you are not the brain dead moron you usually come across as, this kimono fetish kind of freaks me out.
Very few foreigners will ever get any closer to Being Japanese than I have and do. I speak Japanese the way most Japan-geeks have wet but unfulfillable dreams about doing. I have worn a kimono on New Year's day.
Now, as a Veteran of the same war, I wish to emphasise that foreigners that walk around dressed in kimono are F'in Nutbar shitheaded poseur wannabe losers.
Do you understand that?

mcalpine

2005-04-27, 03:29 PM

Where should I start.....where should I start ???????? So, many rebuddles , so little time to rebut !!!!

It's nice to know that there is someone who loves and embraces Japan like I do.

Hear we go:

First of all, if you look-up "hypocrite" in Websters Dictionary you'll find a picture of Mao tse dumb in color print ! Good old uncle Bush & Company will not allow nor stand by and allow a Communist / puppet Democracy ' only when we want to be' Chinese government to dominate the economic theater of the free world. Yes, sure we can do all the number crunching on statics and where we can see China 10 or 20 years from now, but ask yourself, will it be in America's or Japan's best interest if China is allowed to become the #1 military and economic super power in the 21 century ?? The answer is a resounding "HELL NO" It's not practical nor is it safe !

Does China no this ? Yes....what will China do about ? Nothing ! Just like before Nanking ! When Chang Kai shek fled ( deserted) most of his men most of them didn't know what to do. They were left without any leadership while Mao went on his little crusade fighting internal wars and divisions. While this was going on China was raped by Gen. Iwane and his men in Nanking !( good, they deserved it)
90% of China's problems stem from internal issues non-related to external sources. If the CCP and the KMT had organized their troops together they would of easily defeated the Japanese army; and on Chinese soil too ! Did they organize no ! So , good they deserved to have gotten raped, dummies ! ! They were busy fighting each other !

Look at the Arrow Affair ! Yes, the drugs were bought in by external sources but it was the Chinese who sold those drugs to their own stupid little people therefore creating an internal crisis of mass corruption and civil disorder ! dummies ! How do you blame others for being so dump and irresponsible ?

If I walk in the street naked and get raped is it my fault or do I blame the rapist ?? I am a dude .

General Iwane and his men did an excellent job ( Kudos) I feel no pity ! What I do pity however is that Japan is loosing her soul ! Actually, in Kanagawa there will be a huge Mishima Yukio exhibition through out GW so you all need to attend it ! I've been posting flyer's at most of the major train station in Tokyo and Yokohama, check it out !

I hate Chinese Koreans and Filthypinos and everyone else who stands in the way of the rising sun !

Long live the Emperor !

kurogane

2005-04-27, 03:38 PM

To Carp is not to carpe, my silly little Sharpe.

Anyhoo, tone down the anti-Asian racist rhetoric. Yes, we know what you are doing, but yes, it is still offensive.

PS on substantial points I agree with you. Except the revivalist fascist crap. That I think is both Bad and Not Good.

aha yes

2005-04-28, 12:28 AM

Does China no this ? Yes....what will China do about ? Nothing ! Just like before Nanking ! When Chang Kai shek fled ( deserted) most of his men most of them didn't know what to do. They were left without any leadership while Mao went on his little crusade fighting internal wars and divisions. While this was going on China was raped by Gen. Iwane and his men in Nanking !( good, they deserved it)
90% of China's problems stem from internal issues non-related to external sources. If the CCP and the KMT had organized their troops together they would of easily defeated the Japanese army; and on Chinese soil too ! Did they organize no ! So , good they deserved to have gotten raped, dummies ! ! They were busy fighting each other !
You've been reading too many Japanese history textbooks, Mac.

The Chinese did organize against the Japanese. When the Nanjing Massacre happened (1937-38), Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai Chek were actually united for once against the Japanese, and both their armies were receiving material support from the Allies. Ironically, it was the communists, not the nationalists, who wanted to work together. Mao, living in a cave in the hills at the time, had Chiang kidnapped and forced to sign an agreement. So it's not true to say that Mao was too busy fighting "his little crusade" when the Nanjing Massacre happened, so it must be his fault. Chiang Kai Chek holds a little more blame, but he definitely didn't "desert" China until 10 years after Nanjing, in 1949.

So if the communists and nationalists in China were indeed organized against the Japanese army, why didn't they 'easily defeat' them as you expect? Look farther back. When China's last imperial dynasty fell apart in the 1800s, the country was invaded and occupied by the British, Japanese, Russians, Americans, French and Portugese (forgetting anyone?). China's first democratic government, which was still struggling to get regional control from warlords, had only been operational for about 10 years when the Japanese invaded in 1931. Oh, and the founding father of the democratic revolution in China, Dr. Sun Zhongshan, a Japanese-educated man whose government was trying to guide China out of the only world it had known for thousands of years, was dead. So, yeah, they weren't real effective as a national fighting unit when Japan came in. But these are 'internal issues non-related to external sources'?

All that aside, you're blaming the victim and that ain't cool. Sure, Mao and the CCP have done some monstrous things to their own people. But that in NO WAY, you ignorant turd-pushing pea-brained f*ckin' little c*nt, excuses Japan's own imperialistic violence at the time. See, if it comes from their own oppressive guvment or from a foreign army, either way the Chinese people get screwed. Keep spewing this hate-n-death convoluted puke about how innocent people deserved to die and I will make sure the last thing you see in this life is a mob of angry historically misinformed Chinese closing in on your pink little Tojo-wannabe *ss!

aha yes

2005-04-28, 12:33 AM

Good old uncle Bush & Company will not allow nor stand by and allow a Communist / puppet Democracy ' only when we want to be' Chinese government to dominate the economic theater of the free world. Yes, sure we can do all the number crunching on statics and where we can see China 10 or 20 years from now, but ask yourself, will it be in America's or Japan's best interest if China is allowed to become the #1 military and economic super power in the 21 century ?? The answer is a resounding "HELL NO" It's not practical nor is it safe !
Funny that you think the rest of the world still has a choice about Chinese military and economic supremacy in the future. But what exactly are you, Bush& Co. or anybody else going to do to stop it?

And if China did suddenly rear up bloodthirsty and unstoppable and kill hundreds of millions of people all over Asia, Europe and America in a brutal world conquest, then by your bonehead standards it's the dead people's fault...

kimonolover

2005-04-28, 01:34 AM

Hi, mcalpine,

I appriciate your Japanese nationalism. I too desire to fight anyone who opposes the rise of the Sun. That is why I will NEVER serve the US in the military. I don't oppose military, but if I'm going to join a military force and implicitly trust military officers placed over me, they won't be American. There are other forces that will be more closely involved with the struggle against the PRC.

On the Chinese-hating issue, I don't hate them, nor do I think that the Nanking incident is just. The KMT did abandon the city and many PPL evacuated. Also, Chinese guerilla fighters disguised as civilians entered the civilian population. JApanese and Chinese census record this. The JApanese feared that the increase of the civilian population in the isolated city was caused by Chinese soldiers dressed as civilians trying to hide out. However, I do appreciate your boldness.

Kurogane,
I wouldn't call it a fetish. If I'm not dressed liek a geisha or somehting, you need not worry. I think I look classy in a montsuki! Rather smashing! I do want to collect al sorts of kimonos, including womens' kimonos, but I won't go around in a pink furisode. If I was a J-rock artist, I would deliberately flunk all the rules, but that's in the context of a rock star, not normal life. I have used a shiromuku as a wizard costume for Haloween and that worked pretty well. I have a cool-looking staff that is twisted near the top.

Which war are you a veteran of and which side did did you fight for and who did you oppose? Why do you think I'll look like a freak or somehting in a kimono? Why don't you think JApanese PPL look crazy in detestable modern clothing?

The point about JApan's social decay isn't weather they are modernizing or westernizing, it is that their society has survived for over two thousand years and survived the holocaust of WWII. They have faced great trials and lived through them. If today's generation faced the same trials, they will either revert or fall. The war against the JApanese people didn't end when bombs stoped falling. the weapons employed are mass media, detestable clothing, and materialism.

No, I am not a monk, but sometimes I have thought about jouining a monastic order.

Observer,
I do pick up my Bible and fight social decay, but as the apostles left Jerusalem, I seek to leave America. They hear and refuse to listen.

My parents attend a different church and they change churches regularly. They claim to be Christians, but I have questioned that as they have also questioned my Christianity.

There are many who claim to be Christians who are really poseurs. Some of these PPL actually THINK they are Christians, but most, if not all, of them are in the employ of the Devil. I'm sure Harry Truman claimed to be a Christian, but if I had any money to bet, I'd be betting it that he's burning in the hottest furnace in Hell.

I will NEVER serve in the US military. IT is the very tool that was used to mercilessly crush the PPL i love. If I fight China, it will be in another force.

The real issue of this thread, or is it a cable by now, is that China can't except the fact the fact that the Japaneses want to honour her war dead. However, that isn't even the issue. The heart of the issue is that the enemy of Asia is inside Asia not outside as in days of old. China is trying to block JApan's bid for a UN security council seat because China wants dominance. They want the Gas resources in the East China Sea, but they will have to exploit JApanese technology and exploration to get it. When you buy cheaply mass-produced products that are Chinese-made, you are inadvertantly helping China build her war machine. It is the force of Mordor and it will be emptied on JApan, Tiawan, S. Korea, and anyone else in the way of China's military ambitions.

So.... The treaties imposed on Japan are going to hurt those who imposed them in the long run.

I will say more later.

kimonolover

2005-04-28, 01:43 AM

mcalpine

2005-04-28, 01:46 AM

Anyways,

Hmmm...I don't see how I was misinformed ? Basically, you only filled in the missing information in my thesis of hate. Thanks I guess...
So, if they were working together as you so poignantly put it then Japan would've still won ? I don't think so. And what the hell was Mao doing in that cave ? Maybe he was shaking in his boots hiding from his own problems ? You think Mao and Chaing cared about the people they deserted in Nanking ? Hell No ! C'mon Aha ! It's been awhile since we've banged heads. You know in the comic books the good guy and the bad guy are always buddies...hahahahahahah....I can feel the love. Maybe if Chek stayed with his troops and fought the Japanese then history would of recorded a different account ? Bottom line !!! The people of Nanking were left to their own fate with nobody to protect them !!!! Why Aha ? The sad truth is that you had troops who willfully bent over for the Japanese, if you know what I mean. Aha , you should be ashamed of yourself. 300,000 dead in six weeks and you act like this is the worst thing to ever happen to a race of people ? Put a cork in it ! Try to be more eyes and less beak too.

So we should blame the imperialist for all of mans sufferings , right ? Maybe in Zaps perfect world we would have no wars , just peace and love....wake up ! We would never advance as a species if we had no reason to think . Thanks to wars and suffering we can evolve as a species. If it wasn't for Nazi's like Hitler Europe and America would have no reason to work together ! Ooh, man I can go on and on with comparisons !

Back on point, I don't want to draw this thread off point so stay with me everybody.
I have never denied what happened in Nanking , I think it should come to light, and it shouldn't be shoved down Japanese people throats like some Chinese would wish it would be. I have no regard for China at all ! And I can careless about what they think ! Japan will come to terms about it war past in good time ! We will move at our own pace and that's final.

In closing, like I said, China's conquest of economic domination will be thrawted. The U.S. has already asked China to float her currency too bad China said "NO" What do you think is next ?
I leave that up to the conspiracy theorist.

kimonolover

2005-04-28, 09:35 AM

Hi, McAlpine,

I think you're a cool dude and you're probably awesome because you probably disagree with pacifism and moral relativity. However i have one or two bones to pick. While I do see Japan as the hero and victim in WWII, I can't say that Nanking and other such incidents are just.

Another thing, in your post saying that Hitler's actions led to cooperation between the US and European countries. You're probably right, but you failed to insert a comma between 'Hitler' and 'Europe'. I just thought I'd have fun with that. Sometimes, I type fast and make lots of typos.

I like your speculation about China's currency practice and agree with your thing about Nanking. I think The Chinese are using a horrible event in history as a political chip. I say we erase everyone's memory who was involved and destroy anything that refers to it. Since the Chinese have abused their victimhood, they should lose it!

Mor on Nanking...

I do think it may be exaggerated. Have you noticed how the detail of Japan's horrific crimes becomes more elaborate every year or so? The stories they tell are literally unbelievable! Have you noticed how the numbers of people murdered keeps leaping to such great proportion? Have you also noticed how the casualties of the atomic bombings keep shrinking. I think they've got it down to 30,000! Originally, it would have been logical to think that 100,000 were vaporized at the first few seconds of pure hell. Another 100,000 were domed to die agonizing, painful deaths as the wounds are infected andf no treatment is administered, as radiation turns PPL into pizza, and as PPL starve. Then, a few days later, a second MOR POWERFUL bomb is delivered over another helpless city. The same sickening process repeats itself! By what I've heard, Nanking was originally estimated to have been 30,000 or less, but the numbers keep multiplying. Why is it that Nanking's numbers exceed the estimated population, but the casualties fo the Atomic Bombings are shrinking into little blips on the radar screen?! I didn't know that less people could be dead than were previously dead! I mean if a building colapses with 100 PPL in it and they first say '100 PPL could be dead' and then find some survivors, that makes sense, but 20 years after the rubble is cleared, x0 PPL ARE DEAD! When you're dealing with nuclear holocaust, many more will die in just a few weeks! so, how is it that only 30,000 people were killed?! 20 years after the atomic bombing, the US govt. released data that speculated that 100,000 were killed in Hiroshima at the blast. Then, another 80,000 - 100,000 died because of radiation poisoning and exposure. Nagasaki was horrible, but less died because of the terrain, but it was still alot more than 30,000. I think it was 60,000 - 80,000, then maybe double the number for those who died after the bombing. Operating on those numbers, the us murdered nearly 200,000 in 3 days! That's efficient killing there! I haven't even touched the terrorist fire bombings that flattened nearly 60 cities! The ameriKKKans work as hard as they can to keep the numbers below 1 million. I don't know how several million couldn't be dead when you flatten 60 cities. With no infrastructure, millions would starve. How many millions were homeless? They were sleeping in ditches, eating dirt, and many of them had open wounds that couldn't be treated because there was no hospital to go to.

aha yes

2005-04-28, 06:14 PM

So, if they were working together as you so poignantly put it then Japan would've still won ? I don't think so.
Well, as long as YOU say so I guess. Fact is, the Japanese won for more than 10 years in China in city after city. For the last half of that, the Chinese communists and nationalists were working together, and there was a grassroots resistance against the Japanese all over the country, but they still couldn't really throw off the Japanese invaders until they withdrew. That's how it happened.

And what the hell was Mao doing in that cave ? Maybe he was shaking in his boots hiding from his own problems ? You think Mao and Chaing cared about the people they deserted in Nanking ? Hell No ! ...Maybe if Chek stayed with his troops and fought the Japanese then history would of recorded a different account ? Bottom line !!! The people of Nanking were left to their own fate with nobody to protect them !!!! Why Aha ? The sad truth is that you had troops who willfully bent over for the Japanese, if you know what I mean.
Yeah Mao was probably shaking in his cave, but what's that got to do with Nanjing a thousand miles away under a different government? Blame Mao for a lot of mean stupid crap, but he's pretty well blameless on the Nanjing thing. And the KMT had to desert the city, well... duh, it's called a retreat. That's what armies do if they're all about to be killed. So when the Chinese army and people were fleeing for their lives, you're saying they were "bending over" for the Japanese, like they somehow contributed to the enemy or wanted them to win?

If you think I'm corroborating your "thesis of hate" like in the last post, read it again. I'm saying your facts on history are wrong. Not only that, but your sense of fairness is all out of whack if you're in the habit of holding losing armies accountable for what another army does to them. Despite your bold ignorance, my guess is that when a bunch of guys with bigger better guns and the mentality to shoot you like a dog, come into your neighborhood screaming at you in a language you don't understand, you'd run too. Or you're gonna say you'd take death before surrender, like the Japanese bushidou you dream of being, well who cares cos then you're dead.

Aha , you should be ashamed of yourself. 300,000 dead in six weeks and you act like this is the worst thing to ever happen to a race of people ? Put a cork in it ! Try to be more eyes and less beak too.
No I'm not saying it's the worst thing to ever happen in the human race. One thing I have to agree with you and the kimonohead about is that the Nanjing Massacre is overrated. It was big but it shouldn't overshadow what was done to people all over China, SE Asia and Europe during the war, or what was done to the Japanese during the US firebombing campaigns and atomic bomb attacks, or for that matter what happens whenever two groups fight and a whole lot of people die. Where you need to have less beak and open your eyes is with this retarded idea that because one bad thing isn't as bad as other bad things then that makes it OK. Get real and quit making excuses for wholesale slaughter.

In closing, like I said, China's conquest of economic domination will be thrawted. The U.S. has already asked China to float her currency too bad China said "NO" What do you think is next ?
I leave that up to the conspiracy theorist.
No conspiracy theory, but who's gonna make China float its currency if it says no. What's the US gonna do about it when the US Government is in debt to Chinese investors bigtime as we speak, the US has billions in trade locked in with China, and anyway every Capitalist in the Free World is creaming themselves to get into the Chinese market. How is America or any country going to stop China? Especially once they've finished modernizing their army and weapons and completed their mission of utterly brainwashing their billion-strong populace. I'm not rooting for the Chinese...well, because I'm not Chinese, but let me ask one more time, what exactly do you propose Mac? Go in now and carpetbag China back to the Shang Dynasty, level the whole country, before they get any stronger? (Oops, I forgot, China's got nukes and might not let that happen.) Take it back fifty years and drop some nukes on 'em like McArthur wanted to do? Well you're a day late n a dollar short Tojy. No matter how much you hate and dehumanize the Chinese, not much you can do but get used to them being a dominant force in your world.

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-28, 08:22 PM

Zap!You're Forzen said the following. "With this in mind, I find it personally embarassing and shameful at the
moment to tell people I'm from the UK, which has got to be one of the
most violent, rapacious, war-mongering countries ever shat into
existence... I wish I was from Sweden or summink".

I say... With WWII in mind, I am ashamed to tell you all that I am from the USA, which is without a doubt the most violent, rapacious, war-mongering, racist, degenerate countries ever shat into existance... I wish I was from Japan!

Kudos Zap!You'reFrozen! You inspired me!

I don't mean to be pedantic or anything, but I actually DIDN'T say that. That was our good pal Jonny R. MY post was the one about the Swedes having skeletons in their closet too.

Maybe if Chek stayed with his troops and fought the Japanese then history would of recorded a different account ?

What are you talking about? Chiang Kai-shek took his troops with him to their provisional capital in Chongqing in southwestern Sichuan Province, where the Nationalist troops engaged in guerrilla warfare against the Japanese along the Burmese border together with the British and the Indian Gurkhas. Meanwhile, Mao and his bunch engaged in guerrilla tactics in the northern part of the country, and helped liberate Manchuria alongside the Soviets once they entered the Pacific War (right after the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima).

So we should blame the imperialist for all of mans sufferings , right ? Maybe in Zaps perfect world we would have no wars , just peace and love....wake up ! We would never advance as a species if we had no reason to think . Thanks to wars and suffering we can evolve as a species. If it wasn't for Nazi's like Hitler Europe and America would have no reason to work together ! Ooh, man I can go on and on with comparisons !

I'm not altogether sure whether you're backing me up here or slagging me down here. Of course there would be no war in a perfect world, and the fact that our planet continues to be plagued by war - and forgive me for sounding tautological here - would seem to indicate that the world is, well, NOT perfect. Yes, there have been positive results from tragic happenings, but I fail to see how war is a prerequisite for mankind's further evolution. To the contrary, recent wars seem to have resulted of delivering countries like Somalia and Afghanistan a one-way ticket back to the stone age.

I could further disassemble this thread, but at this point I'm frankly baffled by it. But it's good to see that you haven't lost your spunk since the Ernst Zundel thread, Rabbi McTojostein. I was beginning to fear you'd gone soft.

kurogane

2005-04-28, 08:42 PM

it's good to see that you haven't lost your spunk since the Ernst Zundel thread, Rabbi McTojostein. I was beginning to fear you'd gone soft.

Can a Jew Hater be a Rabbi?
Inquiring minds NEED to know!

mcalpine

2005-04-28, 09:02 PM

Who defended Nanking ? I don't know how simple I can express this ?
Who defended Nanking during the six weeks of pure hell ? It's war and as far as I'm concerned there were no rules of engagement. The Japanese army did what any army would have done.

Did I cause confusion ?? So, what I didn't fill-in the details about every single detail about Mao and Chiang kai check ??? The point is that China could've prevented this !

aha yes

2005-04-28, 09:23 PM

No, the point is Japan could have prevented it.

Stop trying to blame China for Japan's aggression, moron!

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-28, 09:30 PM

Can a Jew Hater be a Rabbi?
Inquiring minds NEED to know!

It's not beyond the realm of possibility. After all, the state of Israel has over the years thrown its support behind some of the most anti-Jewish regimes out there, particularly in the 1970s when they invited then-South African PM John Vorster - who as a young man was imprisoned for his pro-Nazi activism - as a guest of honour, and later provided military hardware and technical support to the military dictatorship of Gen. Leopoldo Galtieri in Argentina whose entourage included a number of ex-Nazis and whose secret police has a particular soft-spot for torturing and killing Jews.

Actually, I was simply attempting to be ironic.

waller

2005-04-28, 09:38 PM

It's not beyond the realm of possibility. After all, the state of Israel has over the years thrown its support behind some of the most anti-Jewish regimes out there, particularly in the 1970s when they invited then-South African PM John Vorster - who as a young man was imprisoned for his pro-Nazi activism - as a guest of honour, and later provided military hardware and technical support to the military dictatorship of Gen. Leopoldo Galtieri in Argentina whose entourage included a number of ex-Naxis and whose secret police has a particular soft-spot for torturing and killing Jews.

Actually, I was simply attempting to be ironic.

Zap, how do you know this stuff? did you formally study history or are you just an avid reader/researcher? You seem to be amazingly well informed .

mcalpine

2005-04-28, 09:51 PM

Aha,

You didn't answer all of my questions. Also, doesn't some of the blame fall on the victim ? You sound like a child and a moron too. Do we blame everybody for every single act of aggression ? I could give so many analogies dude but to be honest I'm getting quite bored with this back and forth about Nanking. Bottom line they were deserted and left for broke ! Japan was conquesting and doing what it did best throughout asia while China did nothing about the issue. Don't blame Japan blame China for being stupid and whoreish ! Chinese never accuses or points its fingers at Britain nor their own leaders. The Chinese government ( not guvament) like you so eruditicly spelt it , has the right to blame Japan for its miserable little histories of wars and inner strifes ! Aha you should get over your bleeding heart syndrome and come join the force with me. You know your rightful place is under my ___, just get used to it and stop whining about how bad the Japanese were. Bottom line, Nanking was raped because of the irresponsibility of its leaders. Why would Japan want to prevent war anyway ?
China should stop demanding apologize until it demands an apology from its own government and Britain. China should focus all of its energys on human rights issues and issue a formal apology to Tibet and to the Dalai Lama ! Final !!!!! OK !

I don't see how I was rebuffed or misinformed. You and Zap just colored in my big picture . Okay, enough of the redundancy

kurogane

2005-04-28, 10:06 PM

You didn't answer all of my questions.

Presumptuous as it is, I will be glad to help you think Right, rather than just blowing reactionary steam out your ___:
And the answers are:
No;
Yes;
No;
Get a brain, you fascist freak.
There. Now do you get the point?

waller

2005-04-28, 10:27 PM

Mwa ha ha! See when you are being arrogant, dismissive and hateful in this kind of situation, that"s fine by me!

Zap!You'reFrozen

2005-04-28, 10:29 PM

Zap, how do you know this stuff? did you formally study history or are you just an avid reader/researcher? You seem to be amazingly well informed .

I have an MA in history. And I read compulsively.

Speaking of history, I've as of late been thinking about that business with your student and the reference to Nanjing. Now that I really think about it, I probably would have done the same as you. I realize that as English teachers our job is to, well, teach English, and let the history teachers take care of the teaching of history, but how can one not want to step outside the English teacher box in a situation like that? The majority of junior high-high schoolers out there (and not just in Japan) don't know their history from a hole in the ground, and our job as educators is to, well, educate. If you discovered that your students were convinced that two plus two equalled five, you would correct them even though you're not, technically speaking, their math teacher. Good on ya! Hope things are smooth sailing again at work.

Don't know quite how I managed to get onto South Africa and Argentina on this thread. I suppose they resemble Japan inasmuch as they're both nation states on planet earth.

mcalpine

2005-04-28, 10:31 PM

Sorry for not replying to you directly. Thanks for all of your feedback ! You practically live on this forum ! There is a life away from the computer screen , trust me !

So, its okay for the victim to blame the aggressor in all situations ? Should every peoples accept the victim mentality ? Should the various ethnic groups in the U.S.A blame the powers that be for their own person failures and sufferings ? Let's all be victims so we can point our fingers at the big bad guy. Comon' Aha and Kurogane let's all be victims.

Nanking was preventable but it wasn't because of mis-guided strategies on how to fight the Japanese. After Hiroshima was another issue (Zap)

Kurogane other than that, I will keep the hate rhetoric down. I hate when your glasses get fogged up like that.

kurogane

2005-04-28, 10:37 PM

Kurogane other than that, I will keep the hate rhetoric down. I hate when your glasses get fogged up like that.

Hide-ki,
Thanks for that. Once me ol' glasses steam up, I canna see through me tired ol' eyes, ya ken!
:p
And yes, it is always acceptable for the victim to blame the perpetrator until proper redress is achieved. That is what blame is for, you silly Tamago (the opposite of Banana). After that, no. Just makes them look like whiners.

Waller,
Thanks for that. Me try so hard.

Night all.

aha yes

2005-04-29, 12:09 AM

Also, doesn't some of the blame fall on the victim ?
Just how much of the blame do you put on the victim? Like, what percentage?

Why would Japan want to prevent war anyway ?
Thanks, that's what I'm saying. And even more questionable, why would China NOT want to prevent a war they lost? You're a Japanese Imperialist apologist butt monkey trying to make out like China somehow had a choice about losing. You look back 70 years and say you would have done this or that differently and the whole thing could have been avoided. Who's whining? Own up to what you did! If you wanna go slaughter a few hundred thousand people just because they're weak and your strong at least be f*ckin' man enough to admit it!

China should stop demanding apologize until it demands an apology from its own government and Britain. China should focus all of its energys on human rights issues and issue a formal apology to Tibet and to the Dalai Lama ! Final !!!!! OK !
Only we weren't talking about Britain or Tibet, were we? But I agree, many people need to be apologizing for various atrocities and subjugations over the years. However, I don't buy into this waterhead Conservation of Apology theory that there's only so much Sorry in the world and so this guy can only receive a Sorry about one thing if he's given a Sorry to somebody else about a different thing. Or that because somebody somewhere has done something worse to somebody else -- sometime -- then I don't have to be Sorry for calling you a closet cornholer who's got a lot of misplaced anger about why you can only get it up when others can't.

BTW, nice use of rhetorical buzzwords like 'victim mentality' and 'bleeding heart syndrome'. Thing is, I don't even know what they mean. Sorry. I just wanted to tell you you're wrong about Nanjing... And in a diversion maneuver the same as these rightwing JP ideologues try to pull on the rest of Asia, you say, Oh I'm bored with this. Can we please move on?

observer

2005-04-29, 12:44 AM

Let's all be victims so we can point our fingers at the big bad guy.

Actually, Japan is working on that... You did notice how Japan was demanding an apology from the Chinese government for not preventing the demonstrations and vandalisms against Japanese properties? I was rather amused by the turn of the events. Who would have thought Japan would get a victim card of her own too?

mcalpine

2005-04-29, 04:30 AM

I am not manuevering nor have I swayed one bit in my assertions. No, I wasn't mis-informed.
Nanjing was left unprotected therefore raped brutally ! End of it. You can't refute that.
victimized , yes !! Water apology yes, that is greatly needed by China...
again , I was not refutted or rebuffed just moonshined. We all told the same truths and yet accomplished nothing. I stand my ground the Chinese leadership was to blame, let's say about 50%.

I need to re-read the rest of the junk you wrote....I'll be back.

kimonolover

2005-04-30, 12:55 AM

Hi,

I think the topic of this thread has strayed away from its original purpose. It started out as historical debate and current related politics. Now it is personal battles. The real debating is cool and I enjoy it, but it doesn't require great intelligence to hurl insults.

OK, I'm done now.

aha yes

2005-04-30, 11:14 AM

...it doesn't require great intelligence to hurl insults.
Was that an insult?? :p

PS read the GP rules: All factual discussions must devolve into personal slagfests... or am I reading that wrong? Anyway, insults are the only language mctojo understands.

stillnosheep

2005-04-30, 08:28 PM

Really? I have always assumed that McTojo is Godzillagaijin's alter ego, emerging only at moments of extreme stress...

kurogane

2005-04-30, 09:20 PM

A most interesting theory, my friend. They do share certain stylistic tendencies, and the Ol' Kuso GG has been noticeably absent lately.
I think you are onto something there.

Aha Yes,
I am so happy to see someone actually read the Gaijinpot thread destruction rules. On the other hand, you are a pompous Satanist and anthropopager.
Oh Yeah?
Are Too!

:p

Mind you, Kimonolover has a point there.

aha yes

2005-05-01, 12:25 AM

I actually agree with McTojo's main point on this thread. I don't think it's a crime to visit Yasukuni. Tasteless sometimes when some of the Diet nuts do it just as the PM makes an apology to an international group. But as someone said above, every nation honors their dead -- mass murderers and all -- so why go ape sh*t at the Japanese every time they do it? Wishful thinking, but I would love to see the Japanese leadership -- PM, Emperor, whoever -- give an unconditional & unambiguous apology and acceptance of guilt for things Japan did 60 years ago. Promise to teach the Japanese kids the truth warts and all so they know where they stand in the world. Pledge to China and Korea that Japan has no interest in military conquest of their countries and should stop being portrayed as a threat. Once that's done, Japan says, now if you'll excuse us, we're going to honor our dead as every nation does. It is after all an internal matter, and China of all country's should understand that because they mash the 'internal matter' button every time they get criticized. Furthermore, Japan says, we're going to start calling the SDF a bona fide military and treat it openly and without guilt as such because we're tired of being the only(?) country (ever?) in the world not to have its own army. BTW thanks Uncle Sam, now let's just be friends. And China -- it's soooo funny the way they accuse Japan of re-writing history meanwhile re-writing it themselves to fit their needs, as with Tibet, Xinjiang or Taiwan. Or in the South China Sea, which China now claims more of, using historical boundaries from hundreds of years ago to claim it, than modern Philippines or Vietnam are comfortable with. Oy, China's gonna take what it wants in the future ,and as a much smaller neighbor Japan needs to protect itself is by standing on very solid moral ground when (not if) it confronts China.

I want to see a strong Japan as much as McTojo, but I can't agree with him that it's better for Japan to ignore or lie about the past -- because that won't help on any level -- than to face it squarely now so Japan can move unrestrained in the future. Then there's no need to go around shouting on the verge of insanity (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) trying to convince people that innocent victims deserve to die.

observer

2005-05-01, 02:04 AM

I want to bring for discussion one point no one has talked about much yet about Yasukuni.

Earlier on I remember one poster saying that it is difficult to see any difference between Koizumi going to Yasukuni and Bush going to Arlington. It certainly sounds reasonable, and I probably would have come to the same conclusion - had I not heard of the arguments coming out of Chinese and Korean nationalists. And this one is worth pondering, imo.

The difference is... Yasukuni happens to be... JINJA.

Why would that be a problem, one might ask? Because, a lot of Chinese and Koreans equate Jinja with a place of religious worship. From their point of view, that is like going to a temple, or even to a church or mosque(!). The reasoning goes, if a Japanese goes to a jinja, it must be for some kind of religious purpose.

So, if a bunch of Japanese politicians house the spirits of their war criminals in a jinja and go there every year, that means they WORSHIP the war criminals as some kinds of war gods, as if it is some kind of war religion... So they must feel no guilty and must be rooting for more war and conquest! ... is how the reasoning goes for the nationalists across the sea.

Sounds too far-fetched? But some people do seem to believe it; they equate right-wing politicians who go to Yasukuni with fanatics for the religion of war. Even the moderates in China and Korea appear to have hard time refuting that argument. So it got me thinking, what is going on here?

Then it hit me: a form of serious religio-cultural misunderstanding might be at play here... It is not that the Chinese and Koreans did not have a place of traditional worship of their ancesters like the Japanese do. They did - but the turn of social and political history in 20th century diluted its symbolic meaning for a lot of them. In China and North Korea, it was communism; in South Korea, it was industrialization and the spread of Christianity. A lot of them still revere their ancesters but they mostly do so as private ceremonies. And the gov't honor their war deads in a way that is free of any religious connotation (though one could argue the invocation of nationalism in those occasions smack of state-sponsored religion). In any case, most Chinese and Koreans view and honor their war deads detached from any kind of religious meaning.

But the Japanese have intertwined the issue of war dead with their traditional religions by housing them in a jinja. btw, I can see the Japanese point of view too; from their point of view, jinja simply happens to be a place where those ceremonies are performed and it is not the same as, say, going to mosque for a worship. They are simply following the tradition for the dead, they say. But that argument just won't work for many Chinese and Koreans. The cultural misunderstanding simply runs too deep, imo...

So what can the Jp govt do? The current arrangment is a complete public relation fiasco for Japan. As long as the place is in jinja, good luck persuading your neighbors. This takes me to the same idea as Zap earlier proposed: they need a serious makeover for the place. Call it sanitization if you will, but they really need it. What they can do is, take the top war-time leaders, officers, and generals out (so no one can say the architects of the Pacific war are being honored), and then honor all the conscripts in a govt-sponsored monument that is free of religious connotation. And allow anyone simple acts of respect, such as simple meditation in honor of those who lost lives. The place can be staffed not by temple priests (very bad idea), but by public employees from the ministry of information or education (but not defence). And this would not be that different from what a lot of other govts do all over the world. That will go a long way in resolving the misunderstanding with their neighbors... Japan really needs to work on their foreign PR campaign better...

kimonolover

2005-05-01, 02:22 AM

Hi,

I pretty much agree with the last post. I think Japan should be more honest with herself about certian unsavory things in the pst, of course America, and the rest should do likewise.

I too love JApan and long to see a strong, dignified Japan. I think the SDF should become the IJN, IJA, and IJAF. That would be cool. The UK has the RAF, Royal Marines, and all that. Why shouldn't JApan have cool-sounding names? I think Japan needs to do away with all the stupid bullsh*t that was forced on her after WWII. In the future, maybe soon, China and her little puppet North Korea, will unleash the forces of darkness on the East. They will cover the land with sickness and darkness. It is up to JApan to defend asia. Japan has the 2nd largest economy on earth, the 2nd largest military budget, etc. JApan needs cool-sounding names, fancy uniforms, and bigger ships and large aircraft carriers.

So, I too agree with Mac's main point. I also say that the issue of Japan's crimes is highly overrated and the chinese and koreans are using it for their own political agenda. If you look for AMerican WWII crimes like Hiroshima in modern history test books, thewre will be maybe 1 photo and little more than a paragraph describing the firebombings and atomic bombings and the worst crime of all, cultural genocide, is not mentioned at all. Communist attrocities doen't get any mention either. The Chinese Communist Party has murdered many times more than the JApanese even assuming the worst case scenario numbers like 300,000 in Nanking that we are bombarded with. If you look at the modern American, probably international, view of Japan, they are very unfairly portrayed. While every one else , except hitler, is shown as righteous, the JApanese are painted as devils. There is no attempt to seperate the JApanese people from the Japanese warlords who hijacked JApan in the 1930s. I believe this is done for twop main reasons. TO justify America's past actions, and to justify America's current actions.

From the 1850s, the JApanese were treated like sub humans. THey always got the short end of the stick in trade deals. During WWI, JApan and China fought with the allies hoping to be recognised by the infinitly arrogant west as "civilized" nations and to be treated as such. This was denied and I believe that led to Japan's agression. From the start America a Hong Kong-like colong in asia and that's what America saw JApan as. The JApanese didn't liek that. After WWII, all of Japan's (as well as Germany's) intellectual property was taken by the Americans. JApanese military was destroyed and JApan was forced to buy inferior American military hardware. The JApanese were forbidden from producing certian types of military hardware, but they are allowed to buy it from the Americans. Japan isn't allowed to sell such hardware either, and if they were, they would be competitors to the American aerospace industry.
Juyst imagine if Japan sold their own cargo planes to countries like Tiawan, S.Korea, and other countries. That would cut in on America's play time.

Japan is the ONLY country who hasn't broken any treties in the past 60 years. They have not illegally sold weapons to shady regimes. They have not experimented with or developed WMDs. They have a very good human rights record (since WWII). Also, Japan has invested hundreds of billions of dollars into China and other neighbors in Asia, thus improving the quality of life all over Asia. These countries should be thanking JApan and not cursing JApan, because as they are aware, if Japan is tired of being manhandled, she can simply cut economic ties with these countries. That would hurt China MUCH more than it would hurt JApan. JApan could simply open up factories in Tiawan, India, or even Japan. and China would lose out on ofer 150 billion every year, plus high quality, high-tech technology.

OK, I'm done for now.

arginjapan

2005-05-01, 04:46 AM

China's gonna take what it wants in the future ,and as a much smaller neighbor Japan needs to protect itself is by standing on very solid moral ground when (not if) it confronts China.

That's the point that everyone is missing; China IS going to take what it wants in the future, and there's diddly that Japan can do about it. Consider the short list of facts: China's population is ten times that of Japan's (and growing, as opposed to shrinking). They have the largest military in the region and world, in terms of raw numbers; Japan's is insignificant by comparison. They Chinese are about to engage on a massive expenditure in modernizing their military; Japan, even if it wanted to match the Chinese couldn't because of the crippling effect it would have on its already fragile and vulnerable economy. China's economy continues to grow and expand at a rate that far outstrips Japan.

The sum total is that Japan (or anyone else for that matter in southeast Asia) is simply not equipped to compete with China either militarily or economically; do idiots like mcalpine (despite his flamboyant and flaming rhetoric) really think that Japan has any chance against China anymore? What do you think China's response would be if Japan ever tried to re-militarize in any meaningful fashion? China would probably obliterate Japan preemptively than risk any serious competition to its growing power and influence in the area. And does Japan think that the U.S will always be the staunch ally that it has always been and ride to its rescue against any future conflict with China? Why should they when they are trembling with anticipation at getting greater access to China's market? If anything, the U.S (and other countries as well) would probably welcome any action taken by China that would reduce, incorporate or eliminate Japan simply for the reason that it would mean one less competitor to have to worry about when jostling for position for access to the Chinese market.

The best Japan can hope for is to show how it can be of use to China; I'm guessing people thought I was being completely sarcastic in my post above where I said Japan should throw itself at China's mercy and hope for the best. I wasn't; the new reality is that in this part of the world, China already is calling the shots. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply not addressing reality, and for Japan to engage in foolishly nostalgic acitivities that have no practical purpose but to enrage the emerging superpower in the region is a dangerous miscalculation.

Just about the only thing that is constant in geopolitics is change; things are always in a state of flux. Kingdoms rise and fall, and China will eventually be no different. But for the moment the reality is that the situation of 70 years ago is gone, and probably forever. The new present reality is that China will be dictating the rules in southeast Asia for quite some time to come, and Japan should be wise in acknowleding that fact and doing everything in its power to ensure its own survival in that new equation, rather than stubbornly clinging to nostalgic fantasies that are dangerous at best, and ultimately self-destructive at best.

You are right mcalpine; its not a crime to visit Yakusuni. But when you think about it for the reasons I've listed above, it sure is stupid.

stillnosheep

2005-05-01, 11:11 AM

what is the world coming to when I find myself agreeing with arginjapan? (tho' of course neither the mass of the Japanese, nor of the Chinese population gain from the nationalistic powerpolitics played by the economic and political elites of both countries..

Bashi-Bazouk

2005-05-01, 08:44 PM

The difference is... Yasukuni happens to be... JINJA.

True, the Arlington National Cemetery is not technically a religious site, but with all the Christian zeal imbued in American patriotism, it might as well be. Furthermore, as State Shinto was a product of the late-19th century, is it certainly no older a phenomenon than American patriotism as we now know it. The only real difference, as far as I can acertain, is that in prewar Japan, church and state were officially blended, whereas in the US they have always been officially separate, although in practice there has been a great deal of crossover between the two, arguably as much as there ever was in Japan.

kurogane

2005-05-01, 09:02 PM

The difference is... Yasukuni happens to be... JINJA.

Why would that be a problem, one might ask? ...

Ummm, no problem here. And whatever Bashi-Bazouk said. Plus the fact that interned souls are only gods in the shinto sense.

Having said that, nice points on how poorly the Jpn have been at explaining their position. Nonetheless, Fuqua the Chinese Government.
They are a bunch of felchers.

kimonolover

2005-05-02, 11:37 PM

Mordor is the ennmy of the world. We must fight them or we will fall and be inslaved. China is the enemy! No matter how desperate the struggle is, I want to fight the enemy. Even though I'm pissed at america for being so cruel and destructive toward JApan, China is a real threat to both nations. JApan has the 2nd largest military budget in the wqorld and they don't have nuclear weapons to maintain. Nukes are very expensive! Japan's force in insignificant in size, but it is much more professional and better ecquipped. Japan also has modern submarines. China's navy sucks and they can't invade Japan. China is depending on missiles and the horde of Mordor to win battles. Japan is depending on dkill and perscision to win. If anyone is stupid enought to think that China wiping ou JApan, Tiawan, S.Korea or anyone else, they will soon be watching mushrooms themselves. China (I think)N is using its trade as a catalyst, a means to an end, not the end itself like stupid greedy PPL think. They are playing Russian Roulette and they will lose if they keep playing! I'm praying PPL will wake up befor Mordor is preying on us all! Japan is trying to court India. Maybe that will be useful

Point = I hate the CCP! I KLove the Japanese and they are the one thing I will figfht or maybe even die for! I only care about Japan. PPL If it helps JApan, I like it, if not I don't like it.

arginjapan

2005-05-03, 12:13 AM

JApan has the 2nd largest military budget in the wqorld and they don't have nuclear weapons to maintain.
Wrong.
China's military expenditures (2003 estimate): $67.49 billion (U.S)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html

Japan's military expenditures (2004 estimate): $45.841 billion (U.S)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja.html

China is depending on missiles and the horde of Mordor to win battles. Japan is depending on dkill and perscision to win.
Wrong. Again.

"China has undertaken a selective but meaningful enhancement of its military power... Beijing has embarked on its first major defense acquisitions from abroad since the latter years of the Sino-Soviet alliance, including the procurement and co production of advanced fighter aircraft; transport planes outfitted with Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) capabilities; modern destroyers equipped with anti-ship cruise missiles and air to air missiles; more advanced tanks, helicopters, and surface to air missiles; and modern diesel electric submarines. In addition, the Chinese have accelerated indigenous production of several versions of short range ballistic missiles capable of targeting Taiwan; are developing in-flight refueling capabilities for their combat aircraft; have tested a new solid fuel ballistic missile with a range of approximately 5000 nautical miles; and appear intent on substantially advancing their intelligence, surveillance, and information warfare assets, with particular attention to space based programs...the outcome of the Chinese modernization process will ultimately entail the creation of a more capable, externally oriented Chinese national defense force."
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/srd/Reports/Chinese%20Military%20Power2.htm

If anyone is stupid enought to think that China wiping ou JApan

I don't think China is interested in wiping out Japan; I think they are interested in merely conquering it. A prize isn't worth much if you destroy it.

kimonolover

2005-05-03, 01:09 AM

I HATE the CCP!!!!! They will burn in hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to send them to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nuke their ___!

I guess you got me on the military budget figures, JApan HAD the 2nd largest economy and the 2nd largest military budget.

What I ment with my china taking JApan comment is that if someone thinks it's good when JApan is assailed by Satan's race, If they're THAT STUPID, they will really be surprised when China is knocking on America's door next! Liek I said B4, China (I think) is using trade and the money it makes as a means to an end. They will attack when they feel comfortable and then losing out on trade with other PPL is less important, coz they plan to own them sooner or later! ghbvn (fist pounding on keyboard). I HATE CHINA!!!!! NUKE IT's ___!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoi's up for some electronic warfare?

jonnyrobinson

2005-05-03, 01:58 AM

Get lost you ____ of a troll..you're not even mildly entertaining:-(

kimonolover

2005-05-03, 04:36 AM

Hey man,

Calling me not entertaining is not cool! In fact, it's the lowest blow! I mean, I'm keeping this forum alive with all my rantings and criticising someone elses grammar and then typo-ing every other word. You may not agree with me on all the issues, but you can't say I'm not entartaining. I thnk I'm contributing to the Yen growing in value. Here's how it woreks...

I start fires on this forum, PPL get fired up, they look at the advertisements for JApanese companies and even buy their products/services. When we're slugging it out over JApan's military significance or I'm tellign you how much my life sucks and is unbearable, or maybe we're trying to define a kimono fetish or NAnaking or whatever it is, we post our messages, and the page refreshes and there's an ad banner for a JApanese business on the top of the page and we click on it. Then, we rent their apartments and get signed up with their english compouters or whatever and the JApanese economy strengthens. Also, I think my posts are most entertaining!

Enjoy my posts!

Guy Ginpot

2005-05-03, 04:40 PM

'Entertaining' indeed, and may I add ‘remarkable’. So what if there are typos? Learning to type with one’s nose can’t be easy. But what is one to do when one’s arms are snuggly secured within the wrap-around sleeves of one’s specially made ‘kimono’?

Must be doubly hard when the nose slips off the drool covered keyboard.

Solid obi-makura wallpaper: safety first!

Life is but a dream.

Almost time for the meds.

gg gg gg gg gggurggle

stillnosheep

2005-05-03, 06:49 PM

...gently down the stream,
merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

kurogane

2005-05-03, 08:21 PM

When you two work together like that, you make me feel more levelheaded, reasonable and staid than Ward Cleaver. Or James Mason in that really boring stupid family values movie from the 50s or 60s. Blech.
Now that is frightening

stillnosheep

2005-05-03, 11:03 PM

We try. Himself alone knows just quite how trying we are...

mcalpine

2005-05-06, 12:32 AM

Hello fellow GP ! It's glad to be back. I had a wonderful time touring Yamagata and Fukushima for 7 glorious days. Four nights of camping, 3 nights in love hotels ! My nationalistic spirit has been revived !

Quick note:

On my last stopover I went to Aizu Castle ( Tsuruka-jo) in Fukushima just before heading home today. For all of you history buffs out there this place is truly alive with history and amazing stories of suicidal glory ! I'm choking up right now....anyway, while re-learning alot of what I had already known it came to life in such a major way. I went to the "Byakottai" burial grounds where 19 young men between the ages of 13 and 18 commited mass suicide after learning that Tsuruka-jo was burned to the ground ( The castle never burned to the ground, they only misunderstood the situation) The gesture of honor was the true spirit of the samurai !
I can add more but I need to read and re-read through the post to make sure I have answered everybody.

I will continue to focus on Yasukuni in this thread and other related issues concerning Japan and Bushido !

mcalpine

2005-05-06, 10:28 AM

This is perfect !

arginjapan

2005-05-08, 08:42 PM

mcalpine

2005-05-09, 01:11 AM

It was an act of Bushido ! If you research it then you wouldn't sound so dumb making such a dumb comment you moron !

kurogane

2005-05-09, 05:04 PM

It was an act of Bushido ! If you research it then you wouldn't sound so dumb making such a dumb comment you moron !
So, in other words, this act of Bushido involved ritually disembowelling oneself in a mass orgy of sacrificial Onanism to atone for the grief and shame caused by something that didn't happen?

Well, I must say, that DOES sound kinda dumb, doesn't it?

waller

2005-05-09, 05:53 PM

I went to the "Byakottai" burial grounds where 19 young men between the ages of 13 and 18 commited mass suicide after learning that Tsuruka-jo was burned to the ground ( The castle never burned to the ground, they only misunderstood the situation) The gesture of honor was the true spirit of the samurai !
I can add more but I need to read and re-read through the post to make sure I have answered everybody.

I will continue to focus on Yasukuni in this thread and other related issues concerning Japan and Bushido !

I think you should keep this option in mind McAlpine, if things get too hot here on GP. There is shame and dishonour aplenty here.

kurogane

2005-05-09, 06:00 PM

I think you should keep this option in mind McAlpine, if things get too hot here on GP. There is shame and dishonour aplenty here.

Ｙｏｕ’ｒｅ making oblique references about me again, aren't ya? Huh? I feel so ashamed, so betrayed!!!!!!!!!

Where's that damn sword.................................

mcalpine

2005-05-10, 01:56 AM

The both of you sound like you have one-sided logic for just about everything. These kids were not raised to think like the both of you. Since birth they were raised with a set of moral beliefs that say " you must die when you or your master is dishonoured." Stop trying to expect people to think they way that you two do !! It's like telling a schizo that what he sees in his dreams is not real when in fact it is real to the person(schizo) who thinks it's real !

When you say "DUMB" it only reflects your ignorance of the situation and the times that these kids lived in. Their actions will live forever in the hearts and minds of many Japanese people including countries like: Rome, Germany, America, and the list goes on, who sent tribute to the Byakottai burial site out of respect and admiration for the ultimate sacrifice of life and beliefs. Yes, even years after this occurred people still pay tribute ! Even Hitler.

So, the both of you can keep your narrow minded " We are Westerners point of View" and shove it up your lily white arses and show some respect for REAL people. When is the last time your sacrificed something for something you strongly believed in ?????

waller

2005-05-10, 01:01 PM

What? I do take umbrage at that! I was just saying that I agree with you and that as you feel so strongly about it you shouldn't rule out following suite! Just kidding though, GP would be a duller place without a lunatic like you around.
Sacrifice ? Excuse me, I just decided not to buy the extra yummy looking sushi lunch box cos I wanted some peanuts and milk . Don't tell me about sacrifice!

Seriously though, of course I look at things thru my Western eyes. And to me, topping yourself cos someone spread a false rumour about a castle burning down does seem.....yeah, dumb! I can't dig on all that feudal stuff - laying down your life for your lord. Just sounds like an old form of fundamentalism to me.

eku

2005-05-10, 01:18 PM

kurogane

2005-05-10, 04:04 PM

if you want to bask in the glory of a really good disembowelling
all you have to do is visit Sengaku-ji temple at Takanawa, two miles south of Shibuya park in Tokyo....there you will find the tombstones of The Famous 47 Ronin of Ako
but I would recommend you visit the ruins of Ako castle itself to fully apreciate the sacrifice.... must have taken ages from there to Edo

Ya, but Ronin are cool. The Byakkotai are just sad.

McAlpine,
Trying to pretend you are something you are not is not just sad, it's dumb too. Dumber maybe.
Remember, I have been ever so much more amongst the natives then little Tojo wannabes could ever dream of. It's Mai Jobbu. Unfortunately, culture isn't like Kimonolovers object of fetishisation; you can't take it off, and it doesn't go away. Saying you can think like them is the worst form of hubris.
And besides, we were just trying to fire you up, you silly Field Marshall person.
:p

arginjapan

2005-05-10, 06:55 PM

These kids were not raised to think like the both of you. Since birth they were raised with a set of moral beliefs that say " you must die when you or your master is dishonoured."
In other words, they were raised to be non-critical, unquestioning automatons. Sort of reminds me of a lot of workers in contemporary Japan...

Their actions will live forever in the hearts and minds of many Japanese people including countries like: Rome, Germany, America
Well, if nothing else this fantastic statement has wrenched a wry grin from me at this hour. Dude, what has Rome got to do with this? The second part of your thought, I'm not quite sure how to read it: do you mean it would live forever in minds of Japanese people living in Rome, or in the mind of Romans? In the former, I don't know of any record anywhere that definitively states that there were Japanese living anywhere in the Roman Empire; in the latter I think that the average Roman (nay, above average even) probably never even heard of Japan, since there was no radio, television, internet or mass communication of any form. Books were scarce, and many Romans (particularly in the outlying areas or the Empire) were illiterate.

Careful with the flaming rhetoric there, firebrand.

mcalpine

2005-05-11, 09:45 PM

I've been away from the keyboard for awhile, sorry for not flaming you earlier.

I don't think I mentioned in my last post that I was trying to understand or be like somebody or not. I am exactly McTojo, that's it !

It's the very act committed by these children that were amazing. You can call it sad all you want but you have to understand the nature of the situation first before you go off on your little tandrum about how sad somebody is for displaying utmost devotion to honor and courage, things you have no grasp of. Do you even have a grasp of yourself ?

Arjinjapan, whatever you are...Why bother....eehhh? Yu have to wake-up to yourself everyday . That in itself should take courage !

arginjapan

2005-05-12, 12:21 AM

Arjinjapan, whatever you are...Why bother....eehhh? Yu have to wake-up to yourself everyday . That in itself should take courage !
That may be, but I'm still waiting for you to explain how the suicide of the Byakkotai supposedly inspired admiration among the Romans when it happened at least 1100 years after the Roman Empire ended.

mcalpine

2005-05-12, 12:29 AM

You know, you take things so far out of context. As you know, Rome still exist...you know...the place where the pope lives. Rome, Italy....Vatican City...Hello ??? If you want me to send you a picture of the statue that was shipped to the byakottai burial site I can jpg it for you ! Seriously, I have proof for everything I say ! And I didn't say Rome admired the Byakottai, you said that ! !
You sound like Kurogane. Do you guys just put words into peoples mouths ?
I will forward the picture to GP in just a moment.

mcalpine

2005-05-12, 12:40 AM

Hitlers Germany, Rome Italy, and several other countries pay tribute to the sacrifice of the 19 young men who committed mass suicide for the honour of Matsudiara Katsumoto !

Yes, Rome still exist TODAY ! The Pope at that time sent a statue to pay respect and honor to the young men & WOMEN who took their own lives for the sake of honor and loyalty !!

End of Story ! Due to GP restrictions I couldn't post a high resolution on the original picture !

arginjapan

2005-05-12, 01:19 AM

You know, you take things so far out of context. As you know, Rome still exist...you know...the place where the pope lives. Rome, Italy....Vatican City...Hello ???
Sorry, you aren't going to weasel your way out of this gaffe by using the "out of context" arguement, and here is why-in your post you state "Their actions will live forever in the hearts and minds of many Japanese people including countries like: Rome, Germany, America. News flash: the only time Rome was a "country" was the Roman state of antiquity. If you meant the city of Rome, you should have stated it as such. You didn't. If you meant the country of Italy (where modern Rome is the capital city to which you allude) you should have stated it as such. You didn't. Don't see where there is any out of context mistake there. And what's with this "Rome Italy" business-the modern nation-state is called "Italy"; its not prefaced by Rome. Lastly, the Pope has nothing to do with Rome or Italy; he is the head of a sovereign state called the Vatican-if he sent such a statue he sent it on the Vatican's behalf, not on Italy's.

Better start proof reading better then. Either that or better yet, simply admit to the mistake that you have obviously made and continue to embarass yourself by compounding with statements that draw attention to your hilarious error. Then again, admitting you are wrong is a trait that you share with the Japanese nationalists you so admire...

aha yes

2005-05-13, 11:50 PM

I have to admit, I thought about you this week when I made my first pilgrimage to Yasukuni. So I gave a generous donation & got a "guided tour" into the altar, where I could whisper right in Tojo's ghostly ear that Japan was so utterly crushed & broken by the war that after 60 years she's still occupied by the Victor's army; that a good many Japanese people would have made him proud by conquering the world economically but some bureaucrats with more greed for money than sense of duty to their country had squandered it to the point that those pink Western pigs & Chinese monkeys are more formidable; that the glorious army of the rising sun are now a bunch of eyebrow-shaving pansies hooked on video games; that his supreme sacrifice amounted to (in the Yasukuni museum) an old prop plane and a couple of howitzers that were left behind when the Japanese army was annihilated on Okinawa; that the Outsiders keep coming uninvited; and I for one have taken one of his women for my own and tainted his race by squirtin' in the gene pool. I could hear his spirit weep.

arginjapan

2005-05-14, 01:10 AM

where I could whisper right in Tojo's ghostly ear
I have to admit that's a great idea...I should start preparing my list of sweet nothings to whisper in his ear now...

mcalpine

2005-05-14, 01:14 AM

aha yes,

I don't know where to begin. Actually, I was moved that you would even think about going to Yasukuni. aha....Yasukuni ? no, way...

Regarding your other comments. Well, I agree with them. I'm sure Tojo has turned over in his grave many times looking at how his country is being squandered away by half men, ___s and loose women that are so loose that when they walk they sound like loose change bouncing around in somebody's pockets . The only thing is is that it's not change it's cum ! Real men in this country is a rare commodity and because of that Japans future looks bleak with no light at the other end of the tunnel. I'm at a loss of words sometimes when I look at the condition of this society. Suicides are up now more than ever before, young kids have no interest in being like their drunk fathers who come home and beat their mothers because of the inability to release their frustrations. Salary men who pay fifteen year old girls to have sex with them because they have an inferiority complex that's accepted as normal in this culture. Even Meloncholia is an acceptable psycho behavior in this country because most health care specialist never once thought that it was abnormal.

Yasukuni means alot to me because it's a real Jinjya ! A place of sacrifice and blind allegiance to an Emperor who never accepted responsibility for his role in the war. Tojo accepted full responsibility for not only his actions BUT for the actions the Emperor authorized before and during the war ! This gesture was done to protect the soverignty of the Emperial body . If Tojo had passed the blame on to Emperor Hirohito at that time then today Japan would not have an Emperial household because McAuthor would have in fact elliminated it.

Most Japanese men today are cowards with no backbone; no sense of civil nor moral responsibility. They demand respect but have not earned it. They demand respect but haven't commanded it !

arginjapan

2005-05-14, 08:52 AM

Regarding your other comments. Well, I agree with them.
Well great; now if I can just get you to agree that your carrying on about this "Rome Italy" thing was silly and mistaken as well....

mcalpine

2005-05-14, 10:06 AM

You just misunderstood me. THAT'S ALL !! For the sake of time I sometimes have to assume that people understand what I say when I type it ! Of course Rome exist still today you know this and of course not in her original state. Bottom line, Rome at that time during the Boshin War in Japan had paid tribute to the burial site of the Byakottai. The Pope at that time sent the statue in that photo I sent you. If you look at the photo again you'll see an eagle which was a gift sent from Pompei Italy. The bottom have was sent from Rome ! Rome ! Rome !

mcalpine

2005-05-14, 10:11 AM

The City of ROME. Does that make you happy ?

aha yes

2005-05-14, 03:12 PM

Yasukuni means alot to me because it's a real Jinjya ! A place of sacrifice and blind allegiance to an Emperor who never accepted responsibility for his role in the war. Tojo accepted full responsibility for not only his actions BUT for the actions the Emperor authorized before and during the war ! This gesture was done to protect the soverignty of the Emperial body . If Tojo had passed the blame on to Emperor Hirohito at that time then today Japan would not have an Emperial household because McAuthor would have in fact elliminated it.
Actually, I wasn't all that impressed. Nice garden though. Oh, and when we were reading through the ema prayers, they were almost all for passing exams or for health, but there was one written in Korean that said, "Don't lie. Takeshima belongs to Korea." And someone had come along and translated it into Japanese and replied, "All stupid Koreans must die." That wasn't you was it mcalpy?

About Tojo taking blame for the war, I agree that he made a sacrifice, but I doubt how willingly and honorably it was. I read a while back in "The 50's" by David Halberstam that actually there was an American expat who had lived in Japan for ages and was a friend of a friend of Truman and helped persuade the US gov that it was not in its best interest in the region to effectively destroy the Japanese national identity by executing the Emperor, so with China, Russia & others, and MacArthur, calling for the Emperor's head, the axe had to fall on somebody. Tojo was a scapegoat.

But why be surprised that I visited Yasukuni? I've been to places much more heinous... why just last week I paid a visit to the Mcalpine family home because it was time to take his mama out of the closet and shave her back. But ya know, war criminals & facist's hairy mothers are people too.

Next week I'm to sengakoji. Now there's a tale of honor...and much more interesting, a tale of revenge served sweet & cold.

kurogane

2005-05-14, 06:40 PM

Next week I'm to sengakoji. Now there's a tale of honor...and much more interesting, a tale of revenge served sweet & cold.

So, don't keep us guessing here, what is it? kataki kaki goori? Sounds yummy, with just a slightly bittersweet taste that satisfies you momentarily, but leaves you feeling empty in the end.

aha yes

2005-05-15, 11:02 AM

It cost them their lives, but man what a rush when they cut down Kira after waiting so long.

What an example these guys could set for dopes like McTojo or kimonolubber if they paid attention. Honor and pure unadulterated hate -- the Ronin weren't American style wannabe samurai playing dress-up. No shouting ineffectually about how much they loved their master. They quietly bided their time, then acted. No BS, just did it.

And yes, if pretty please is served with a cherry on top, revenge should come on a sno-cone. I'm partial to grape. Sour ones.

stillnosheep

2005-05-15, 07:18 PM

Ridding the planet of woodlice who believe that their cause is somehow more acceptable because it was supported by the NSDAP under Hitler or by Mussofatfeck's fascisti in Rome (that's Rome, Italy, just in case the woodlicefolk think that I'm referring to the Caesars) - or whoever happened to be the tame pope at the time - is not a matter of revenge. It's just house-cleaning; like when you beat the mattress. To hell with the bedbugs.

revenge bad and karma-destroying

housecleaning good and neccessary for healthy environment.

aha yes

2005-05-15, 10:54 PM

revenge bad and karma-destroying
what if there is no such thing as karma, no cosmic balance that gives it to the bad guy in the end, in which case it becomes extremely important to slam home your point with the bad guy while he's within reach.

I'm gonna come back as a pimple on a monkey's butt aren't I?

stillnosheep

2005-05-15, 11:35 PM

that not revenge, that just beating mattress to rid of woodlice; karma not important - maybe karma, maybe no karma -mattress still needs to be beaten, just matter of hygiene

kimonolover

2005-05-17, 12:51 AM

Hi y'all,
the liberary's internet was down last week, so that killed my play time. Anyway, I agree with what McTojo said about Yasukuni and what it represents. I think it honors ultimate sacrifice, not war crimes.

aha yes

2005-05-19, 02:21 AM

stillnosheep

2005-05-19, 02:27 AM

Most Japanese men today are cowards with no backbone; no sense of civil nor moral responsibility. They demand respect but have not earned it. They demand respect but haven't commanded it !
ah, just another american japan hater with a twist then

Bashi-Bazouk

2005-05-19, 10:22 AM

I'm sure Tojo has turned over in his grave many times looking at how his country is being squandered away by half men, ___s and loose women that are so loose that when they walk they sound like loose change bouncing around in somebody's pockets.

That's very poetic, McTojo. Interesting that you blame '___s' for bringing down the glory of the empire when the country's preeminent postwar ultranationalist intellectual figure, your beloved Hiraoka Kimitake (aka Mishima Yukio), was a homosexual himself.

If Tojo had passed the blame on to Emperor Hirohito at that time then today Japan would not have an Emperial household because McAuthor would have in fact elliminated it.

McAuthor? Very witty indeed! Nevertheless, it wouldn't have made a scrap of difference if Tojo had decided to rat on Hirohito. The erstwile general and prime minister had absolutely zero authority in the post-surrender world and MacArthur, the de facto dictator of Japan, was determined to ensure that the emperor remained in place as a constitutional monarch, as he feared (quite reasonably) that if the emperor were forced to abdicate and face the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal, that Japan would descend into chaos and that the Communist Party (the primary camp in Japan calling for the emperor's head) would eventually emerge triumphant.

Most Japanese men today are cowards with no backbone; no sense of civil nor moral responsibility. They demand respect but have not earned it. They demand respect but haven't commanded it !

Does invading the Asian mainland qualify as fulfillment of civil and moral responsibility? Ah, quel ennui, cette mission civilisatrice!

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 10:46 AM

That's very poetic, McTojo. Interesting that you blame '___s' for bringing down the glory of the empire when the country's preeminent postwar ultranationalist intellectual figure, your beloved Hiraoka Kimitake (aka Mishima Yukio), was a homosexual himself.

Yes, Mishima loved men but that was a private matter which had nothing to do with his political stance. There is nothing wrong with being gay and when I used the term '___' I ment it in a negative way. Being ___gish means being soft , gay and loose. Being gay just means you prefer men, that's it ! Mishima was a very masculine person actually.

[QUOTE=Bashi-Bazouk]
McAuthor? Very witty indeed! Nevertheless, it wouldn't have made a scrap of difference if Tojo had decided to rat on Hirohito. The erstwile general and prime minister had absolutely zero authority in the post-surrender world and MacArthur, the de facto dictator of Japan, was determined to ensure that the emperor remained in place as a constitutional monarch, as he feared (quite reasonably) that if the emperor were forced to abdicate and face the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal, that Japan would descend into chaos and that the Communist Party (the primary camp in Japan calling for the emperor's head) would eventually emerge triumphant.
UUh, McTojo's testimony during the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal was a major part of why the Emperor is still a symbol of the state today ! And yes, it made a huge difference in how McAuthor viewed the Emperial household.

[QUOTE=Bashi-Bazouk]
Does invading the Asian mainland qualify as fulfillment of civil and moral responsibility? Ah, quel ennui, cette mission civilisatrice!
Yes it does !! History only favours the strong not the weak !

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 10:49 AM

I am still trying to figure out how to use these quotes

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 10:54 AM

Have you been to Sengakuji?

Inspirational. There's the rock Lord Asano gutted himself on to honor the code. A pool the Ronin used years later to clean the head of the enemy before laying it on their master's grave and doing themselves in. Lord & Lady Asano's graves. And just beside Asano's grave count em up 47 graves, every one honored with incense burning. It was a Tues afternoon but the place was pretty crowded. Obviously still a powerful thing for plenty of Japanese people, so be reassured.

Just so you're not confused, this doesn't mean I think China needs to be A-bombed.

Yes, I am aware of the story about Lord Asano but I don't see how this overshadow the glory of Yasukuni ? The real soldiers in Yasukuni died doing the right thing. Asano's men exacted revenge because their master was humiliated over something very stupid and irrelevant to true suicidal glory. I flash my sword in your house...I runaway in shame then kill myself ? Then all of my retainers seek revenge then commit suicide ? Die for a real cause.

No, I have never been there but I plan to visit someday so I can whisper in Asano's hears and tell how dumb he was. I'd probably also mention about a real man like Tojo or even General Iwaname. Make that will make his balls shrivel up

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 11:06 AM

ah, just another american japan hater with a twist then

I am not an American nor am I a Japan hater. I was only telling the truth

aha yes

2005-05-19, 11:16 AM

As far as I can tell the only real outcome of Tojo's or Iwaname's acts were intense firebombings of their homeland, a couple of mushroom clouds leaving hundreds of thousands dead, a modern Japan occupied by outsiders, and no way forward diplomatically unless their own people diss them irrevocably. You're right, that was soooooo much smarter than the Ronin.

Anyway, I'd thought you'd appreciate it based on the code of honor & duty you keep ballyhooing. Now I see you only pretend to understand it. You're really more interested in imperialist hatred and violence. Well whisper what you want to Asano. I doubt he listens much to poseur pipsqueaks.

aha yes

2005-05-19, 11:18 AM

I am not an American nor am I a Japan hater. I was only telling the truth
Did your citizenship get revoked or something?

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 11:42 AM

I'm sorry Aha. Did I hurt you ? GOOooooooodddd....hahaha...no I am not exactly about hate.
I actually believe that hate is very bad and serves no other purpose but to cause hypertension and heart attacks. Actually, I am not a hateful person, bitter maybe...I believe in quietude and peace. Contrary to popular belief McTojo's mindset was not centered in hate but more to duty and country. I'm sure he liked Chinese food and Chinese whores just like the rest of us do. Hating....no

aha yes

2005-05-19, 11:59 AM

Yes you heart me badly, as the cyber opinions of faceless morons is something I think about all day long in my empty life. Oh, my p*ssy hurts.

Moreover, you've thoroughly confused me. In your last post, are you talking about the real Tojo or the cracker American "Mc" kid that very eagerly takes his name? Have the 2 become 1 in that peabrain of yours? Anyway, call yourself McTojo all you want -- your username still says mcalpine...

arginjapan

2005-05-19, 12:15 PM

I am not an American nor am I a Japan hater. I was only telling the truth
So what exactly is your nationality?

aha yes

2005-05-19, 01:12 PM

arginjapan,

I'm American not Scottish !

I am not an American

Contrary to popular belief McTojo's mindset was not centered in hate but more to duty and country.
See, apparently mcalpine respects when other people have a sense of duty to their country, but he can't be bothered with it himself. ;)

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 02:51 PM

I almost forgot that you were a woman.

I am an American ! Can you get that through your little pEE- brain....and I don't mean the vegetable.

aha yes

2005-05-19, 03:23 PM

I am not an American...
Thank you for clearing that up.

Sincerely,
Your peeheaded b*tch

mcalpine

2005-05-19, 05:50 PM

Thank you for clearing that up.

Sincerely,
Your peeheaded b*tch

Aha, give into your anger it's good for you. You got alot of pin-up emotions .

aha yes

2005-05-19, 05:55 PM

Pin-up emotions? You mean like with g-strings & sitting on corvettes?

mcalpine

2005-05-25, 08:03 AM

I was apalled the other day when the Chinese once again showed total disregard for Koizumi and his soveriegnty. Vice Premier Wu Yi( I call her Pooo PEE) I hate that B***tch !

I say again ! To ALL peoples of the world ! It's not a crime to visit Yasukuni Jinjya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every Japanese person should at least once in their life pay a visit to this shrine if not anything else but to learn something from it. It is a shrine that is supported by over 2 million Japanese people who would like to see the former glory rise again !

This shrine is the last great memory, the last great symbol of Japans greatest hour in history !
This is the shrine that reminds us all; including our enemies that Japan was great and will be Great !!!!!!!!!

mcalpine

2005-05-25, 08:53 AM

Subject: sasakawa

For those interested in the sordid history of Ryoichi Sasakawa, there is an excellent article about him in the March 1994 issue of Asia, Inc. titled, "The Man who Tried to Buy Respect" and authored by Hans Katayama.

In addition, they might want to look at the dossier compiled on Sasakawa by U.S. Occupation authorities in December 1995, file no. 185, declassified by the U.S. Army in 1977, which formed the basis of his arrest as a Class A war criminal, confined in Sugamo Prison until 1948 when he was let go, untried, with the onset of the Cold War.

Some lengthy excerpts from the Katayama article:

"Sasakawa is a man of many faces: jailed for war crimes, accused of pillaging China, soulmate of yakuza gangsters. Now Sasakawa claims he is campaigning for peace though critics insist that what truly inspires him is his bid for a Nobel prize. Had he stepped inside China 45 years ago, his fate would have beeen a bullet in the neck. But today, 'Chinese officials roll out the red carpet for him,' beams a Sasakawa associate of 20 years. 'They always tell me that they will do anything for that man.' Of course they will he's doled out millions for charitable causes across six continents. As chairman of the Japan Shipbuilding Industry Founcation and histrionic, iron-fisted czar of the nation's $18 billion motorboat-race gambling industry, he alone decides how to spend $600 million each year. He has done so for more than three decades. His empire and its philanthropic arm commonly known as the Sasakawa Foudnation rank among the most powerful institutions in Japan....

In 1931, Sasakawa took over leadership of an ultranationalist group, the Patriotic People's Mass Party, and its membership grew from 1,000 to 15,000. He dressed his followers in sinister black uniforms and built an airport with funds he extorted from an Osaka business group. The landing strip was home to a fleet of 22 aircraft, one of which Sasakawa piloted to Rome in 1939 to meet Benito Mussolini, whose 'Black Shirts' inspired the PPMP attire, allegedly as a private envoy of Tokyo. Sasakawa's infamous recollection of the Italian: 'He was a first-class person, the perfect fascist and dictator.' Sasakawa ran the party not only for show, but as a tool to advance his quest for affluence and influence. The fastest way to both was to insinuate himself with the increasingly bellicose Japanese government. He was notorious for his jingoistic speeches and hounded those suspected of 'thought crimes.' He felw goods into newly annexted Manchuria and had the Imperial Navy use his planes to train military pilots. When the Pacific war broke out in 1941, Sasakawa quickly seized upon a lucrative business opportunity: He bought as many mines in Japan as possible and sold the strategic minerals to the military for profit. The scope of his activities soon expanded to include China, and he made frequent jaunts to Shanghai. As the Imperial Army pushed deeper into China, Sasakawa went along for the ride, ransacking gold, diamonds and other valuables along the way. By 1945, a Sasakawa crony, Kodama Yoshio [a name also associated with sordid things Japanese], had enough plunder, including three large sacks of industrial diamonds from Shanghai and Singapore, to fill two planes to take back to Japan. 'The cargo was so heavy,' one eyewitness later recalled, 'the aircraft's wheel shaft warped under the load.' Sasakawa has consistently denied any wrongdoing during the war. 'I have not exploited one yen or one penny,' he once told reporters. 'What I did was to donate several million tuberculosis injections in China.' Yet the Allied Occupation forces felt differently, arresting him as a class-A war criminal in 1945 and confiscating the loot he stole from China...Sasakawa was never tried and in 1948 he was releated. Many suspect he made a deal with the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, transforming himself from proto-fascit to vehement anti-Communist. During the 1950s and 1960s, he spent millions beefing up Japan's anti-Communist movement and hobnobbed with Asian strongmen like South Korea's Syngman Rhee and Taiwan's Chiang Kai-shek....

The fount that pays for Sasakawa's antics is the motorboat racing business, one of three state-sanctioned gambling concessions in Japan. In the late 1940s and early 1950s, boat races were held sporadically and a proposal was aired to unify them under one entity, with a portion of the winnings used to help fund the reconstruction of Japanese industry. Sasakawa learned of the bid through his ties to the LIberal Party, a forerunner to the Liberal-Democratic Party, and fought a fierce battle to gain control of the new entity. Sasakawa settled the issue in 1951 with a $13,800 payoff to keep the contenders quiet. Political approval came later the same year, and with it Sasakawa established the Japan Motorboat Racing Association. In a flash of brilliance in 1962, he made himself chairman of the newly created Japan Shipbuilding Industry Foundation. According to the deal with teh government, 75% of the total take is refunded back to motorboat fans as winnings while the rest covers operating expenses and is distributed among local governments and local racing associations. 'Basically, he set up a system where he controls both ends of the cash flow,' said a Sawakawa-watcher in the financial industry. The Foundation receives 3.3% of total earnings to rebuild Japanese shipping interests, though the sum was supposed to fall under the Finance Ministry's jurisdiction at some point in the future....

As the Japanese economy took off, so did Sasakawa's fortunes. In 1976, motorboat racing raked in $4.5 billion; in 1983, $8.4 billion, and in 1992, it more than doubled again. In 1983, a US publication estimated his personal net worth at $1 billion, a figure unquestionably higher today... His LDP connections weren't the only reason he got away with it. Unlike the gambling franchises for horse and bicycle racing, which are directly controlled by bureaucrats, the JMRA has a patron, the Ministry of Transport, which acts as little more than a rubber stamp. Sasakawa keeps the ministry happy by hiring retiring officials as directors at Sasakawa-affiliated foundations. This explains why its bureau chiefs, among the most feared civil servants in Japan, line up and greet him in front of the ministry office every time he pays a New Year's visit. At teh same time, Sasakawa has been diverting some of the foundation's money to internationl donations, in particular to Asia and Africa. His philanthropy has won him kudos from the United Nations and the gratitude of high-profile do-gooders like former US President Jimmy Carter [Sasakawa helped build the Jimmy Carter library in Atlanta and there is a bust of him in the lobby] and AIDS activist Elizabeth Taylor. Much of hs charity has been aimed at Asia hundreds of millions since the 1970s. Recent disbursements include $1million endowments to Beijing, Jilin, Lanzou, Fudan and Nanjin universities in China; $1 million to the University of Malaysia; and $2 million to the Association for the Promotion of the Status of Women in Thailand. In addition, the Foundation has dished out a whopping $106 million since 1989 to establish the Japan-based Sasakawa Japan-China Friendship Fund and the Sasakawa Southeast Asia Cooperation Fund...

kimonolover

2005-05-25, 11:04 AM

Hey McTojo,

you think this dude would fund my living in Japan for x0 years and wearing kimonos and changing nationality?

mcalpine

2005-05-25, 11:55 PM

Hey McTojo,

you think this dude would fund my living in Japan for x0 years and wearing kimonos and changing nationality?
Sorry but he's dead.

kimonolover

2005-05-26, 04:01 AM

kimonolover

2005-05-26, 06:30 AM

Hey McTojo,
Are you familiar with the mxy7? It's a cool-looking vehicle that was used as a desperate suicide vehicle by the Japanese NAvy in 1945. few of them hit their targets, but the ones that did dit exhaustive damage to the Galactic Empire's ships. Some misses also did extensive damage.

Anyway, it's a story of desperation, fearlessness, duty, ultimate sacrifice, and giving the enemy Hell even when there's nothing left but your own body to throw in the way of the unstoppable force of hate and vengeance. IF these are the men you honor at Yasukuni, you = awesome! I read the accounts of their scores cheering them on, like "Yeah!", "Get em!", and "Give 'em HELL!" Too bad there aren't 50000 ships at the bottom of the ocean because of their action!

Too bad they didn't have V-2s or the bomb.

Oh, just a quick question. You and everyone else knows I want to move to JApan and change my nationality, but is that an aspiration of yours too? IDK* what your position on the usa is, but you do have alot of passion for the JApanese and honor/respect their war heroes. I know PPL who openly hate the usa, but refuse to do anything about it. I said "Y not move to Japan and change your citizenship? That's what I want to do". This one guy is like "I hate america and all but have no desire to leave". Well, there's one for ya! I don't know if he's just a GWB hater or what, but there are 3 american flags on his wall that have profanity spray-painted all over them. I'm like, if you really believe in something, you should persue it with all vigor. If america sucks so bad, join me on my quest to move to Japan.

*IDK = I don't know

mcalpine

2005-05-26, 08:55 PM

california84

2005-06-03, 01:32 AM

Japan immigration policies are some of the strictest in the world. I have friends that families have been generation for four or five generation. Still they need to carry Korean Passports. Even Dislocated Japanese citizen from WW2 in the Philippians and China who were citizens before the war have not been allowed to come back to Japan as citizens. Brazilians who come to Japan as much need labor have to show they are at least 80% Japanese. 79% is one percent to little. I guess Kimonolover you will never be a citizen of Japan. So bad you love Japan so much, it is so perfect in your eyes. Who would be a better Japanese Citizen then you, but it will never happen. Why, because you are not Japanese and Japan only want pure blood people in their country. In the mind of Japan you are an inferior person or at best a 1/2 human. Next, time fall in love with a country you can be part.

kimonolover

2005-06-03, 07:40 AM

I have always loved and longed for the most difficult things to attain. I have striven against my desperation and my parents often for such little things. Japanese citizenship for a halfblood who would make a better Japanese citizen than most JApanese citizens is possible, but difficult. I have no clue why I wasn't born in Japan. Why I was born in a country that I have great contempt for. Why I got ___ raped when everyone else got to ride the gravey train. I have no clue why I have to live in fear day and night of some prick getting on my computer and finding kimono pictures on my hard drive! Whatever the reason is, I may or may not discover. MAybe I am being molded into a William Wallace figure for JApan. They need such a hero!

I am right now afraid to go "home" and afraid to stay out any longer! Fear, and terror normal for me. My life is one of hiding and fear. I don't know how I even get through each day, but somehow I do it. I don't know why...

waller

2005-06-03, 09:01 AM

eku

2005-06-03, 09:15 AM

OK, I have another crazy idea! Is it possible to work PT on a culture or Tourist visa? If so, I could work a shitty job until I have been there for 5-10 years and then change my nationality. If that's doable, I see no reason why I shouldn't grab my kimonos and head to the airport! Have enough crap, that If I sell it all and get what it's worth, I should be able to get over there with a suitcase bulging with kimonos.

sell your stuff....get a tourist visa buy a el cheapo return ticket to japan, find a cheap place to stay.... find a nice girl, fall in love really quickly, get married and stay............
how old are you that you have to listen to your parents...
if you're not gonna shite, get off the pot.... but for goodness sake do something sweetie.

california84

2005-06-06, 12:28 AM

What if George Bush visited the same grave of Julius Oppenheimer (The inventor of the Atomic Bomb)? In addition what if Bush visited the burial site of Douglas Macarthur (The commander of Pacific Force and the Commander of Occupied Japan) or Chester Nimitz grave. (The Commander of naval force in the Pacific). I believe that Japan, North Korea, and China would all be offended if the U.S. visited the graves of the individuals who wage war on China, Japan, and North Korea. Even though none of them are war criminal and all are consider great heroes with the U.S.. Still the pains over the war still occur. The world cries over the tragedies of WW Two. U.S. over Pear Harbor and the abuse of POW, China Over Nanking, Japan Hiroshima, Europe over the invasion of German.

The key point I am make here are leader have to act in a certain way. They have to apologize for past wrong of their country, avoid doing thing that offend other countries, and most importantly try to make both the domestic people happy and the international people happy. Right now Koizumi is doing none of these things. I believe it is Koizumi the individual right to visit the shrine. I also would like to visit the shrine myself. But I don’t believe that Koizumi the Prime Minister has the right or should visit the shrine. In visiting the shrine he causing great strain to diplomatic relation to most of Asia. Much like Bush visiting War Hero in WW Two would cause great anger in Japan visiting war hero of Japan is causing great anger in Asia. This need. Koizumi need to put his country above his personal beliefs. He needs to also think of the good of his people and that of the diplomatic. If he does not like this choose maybe he need to step down.

Cali

mcalpine

2005-06-06, 10:15 AM

You need to stop treading in shallow water and stop turning over old stones.

Point #1
Nobody cares about China's feelings and neither are we supposed to. End of it !

Point #2
How a country chooses to honor its war dead is an internal matter. No country should have the right to tell another country how to honor its war dead ! Even Richard Armitage said that on NHK a few nights ago. You see, you are loosing the point Cali. How can China ask other people to be accountable for their own actions when they aren't even accountable for what horrible atrocities they commited against their people including the Tibetans? Ask the Falun Gong what they think about the current Chinese administration ? China can't have it two ways !
Point#3

All of your other analogies are a test of my patients and frankly speaking I am bored with reading them. Koizumi must and will continue his visit to the Shrine even if it has financial and economic draw backs. It's a matter of pride. It's about time Germany had some national pride , don't you think ?

mcalpine

2005-06-06, 10:45 AM

http://starbulletin.com/1999/03/30/news/story5.html

Granddaughter
fulfills Tojo’s wish

She lays a wreath at the
USS Arizona Memorial for
the general who ordered the
attack on Pearl Harbor
By Gregg K. Kakesako
Star-Bulletin

Although more than 4,000 people visit the USS Arizona Memorial daily, today's pilgrim had a special tie to the site.

Her grandfather, Japanese General. Hideki Tojo, ordered the raid that dragged the United States into World War II.

Through an interpreter, Yuko Tojo Iwanami, 59, said she was fulfilling her grandfather's dying wish "to hold memorial services for fallen U.S. Navy sailors and American soldiers who gave their lives for their country."

Tojo was Japan's prime minister from 1941 to 1944. He was hanged by the Allies as a war criminal.

Iwanami was accompanied by her daughter, Nahoko Iwanami, 20, who will begin studying at South Seattle Community College this summer. The two will leave for Washington, D.C., tomorrow, where Yuko Tojo Iwanami hopes to place a wreath at Arlington National Cemetery.

She said her trip was prompted by a 50th-anniversary service on Dec. 23, 1998, honoring military people who were executed by the Americans after the war.

National Park Service Superintendent Kathy Billings said Iwanami wrote to the agency two weeks ago asking permission to lay a wreath at the memorial.

"Anyone is allowed to place a wreath or flowers at the memorial," Billings said. "We get people from all around the world who do that."

Navy veteran Warren Verhoff, who survived the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, questioned the purpose of Iwanami's visit.

He described her grandfather as a "butcher."

"I know that he and Hitler started the whole mess," said Verhoff, who was aboard the USS Keosangua on Dec. 7 when it was bombed by the Japanese.

Stanley Igawa, a veteran of three wars, said he wasn't happy to learn that Iwanami planned to visit the memorial, where he works as a volunteer guide.

"I don't think this is a place for her to be," Igawa said. "This is just my personal opinion ... I just don't think it's a good idea."

The memorial was built in 1961 to remember the 1,177 Arizona crewmen killed during the Japanese attack on Dec. 7, 1941. The attack sank 21 American warships, killed 2,338 military personnel and civilians and destroyed 165 planes.

Yuko Tojo in 1992 published a memoir of her grandfather, which became the basis for a movie last year, "Pride," which portrayed the Japanese leader as a victim of the Allies.

Iwanami said she today she "wanted to contribute to the continuing friendship between the U.S. and Japan."

She also said she plans to build a memorial hall in Palau to honor all the soldiers, sailors and Marines who died in a battle there.

kimonolover

2005-06-08, 02:51 AM

The Japanese respected enemies who fought with honor. The sailors at PEarl were caught off gurad and many of them were standing in the way of JApanese fire trying desperately to shoot down the attacking planes. The do or die style of fighting was somehitng the Japanese really respected and many of them memorialized their fallen foes in on form or another. Laying a wreath is common.

I want to watch this "Pride" movie! Where can I get it?

Are there pacific theater video games where JApan wins the war? I want a game like that! Or at least the outcome depands on my performance and not a set scenario. It sucks that it's always a set scenario! I ALWAYS be JApanese and on EVERY mission I kick butt!, but we always lose midway, Phillipines, Iwo Jima, etc.

I sank 3 American carriers this morning playing Dogfight: Battle For The Pacific. I felt sooo good!

arginjapan

2005-06-08, 01:52 PM

Point #1
Nobody cares about China's feelings and neither are we supposed to.
You will when they start pointing nukes in Japan's direction.

Point #2 How can China ask other people to be accountable for their own actions when they aren't even accountable for what horrible atrocities they commited against their people including the Tibetans?
True; both countries have committed heinous crimes-the main difference being that China has committed them against itself (Tibet excluded) while Japan committed them against everyone else it came into contact with (Korea, Taiwan, China, the Pacific Islanders, etc, etc)

Point#3 Koizumi must and will continue his visit to the Shrine even if it has financial and economic draw backs.
And when trade and economic growth decline to the point where Japan is on the verge of financial ruination, Koizumi (or whatever other puppet is in charge) and the rest of the Japanese political establishment will suddenly come up with a compromise solution to the entire issue, and Japan will fall into line like the good little vassal it has been trained to be by the Americans.

arginjapan

2005-06-08, 01:54 PM

I sank 3 American carriers this morning playing Dogfight: Battle For The Pacific. I felt sooo good!
How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Just curious because you come across like your 12 or 13 or something.

kimonolover

2005-06-09, 03:16 AM

to resopnd ot arg, I passionately hate the CCP! They will spend eternity in Hell!

How Japanese leaders or whoever is an internal matter and the Chinese should shut the ____ up! Japan should stop appologising again and again. They should simply use their awesome AV technology to present to the world China's excessive human rights abuses and argue that they are visiting a memorial for their dead and honoring them. Really, they're practicing their religion, that's all. I would produce documentaries of the Chinese purges, Gang of Three, Mao's personal life, and the many other, almost unlimited crimes of the CCP. Then I would argue that the world is supporting the perpetuation of slavery and religious persecution. US investments in China make a huge part of China's economy. IF there was an outcry in america against Chinese policy, hopefully, when the switch board for the senate MELTS coz of all the callers and the internet shuts down and I can't rant and rave here coz of all the pist off e-mailers demanding that their representatives vote in favor of laws restricting trade with Mordor. IF the US pulled out of China all togeather with no other nations forcing thier private3 sector to cease all contact with China, it would devestate China's economy. If I was prez, I would order the USN to set up a blockade around China's ports and sink with no discretion ANY ship leaving a Chinese port. We can get cheap DVD players from somewhere else!

I am not 12, I am 22. I liek to play video games and really get into them. Id that OK. I don't play too often, but when I do, I might as well really be in a B5N sinking carriers. Man! I hate those pre-set scenarios that Pacific theater games give you! I sank every damn ship at Iwo Jima! I single handedly sank 3 carriers and 6 other ships! On a seperate mission, I destroyed ALL landing craft, turned the beach into a crater, destroyed all enemy ground vehicles, chot down all aircraft, and sank all cruisers, carriers, battleships, whatever the hell was there! There was NOTHING non JApanese anywhere near the island when I landed! THey still lost:(. I want a game that lets Japan win and doesn't stick to the scenario. Are there games where Japan wins the war or games where you have to avenge Japan? Those would make awesome games! I would buy them! Another game idea that would rock would be a game where it's 1945 and you have to defend JApan from the fire raids. As your success grows, you can unlock new weapons and get opputunities to attack american bases at Saipan and all that. Then, youi can attack their navy, and bvasicly, the game portrays Japan as the hero/ righteous one and you can defent them and snatch victory from the jaws of death.

mcalpine

2005-06-09, 09:10 AM

Kimonolover,

Nice post, keep it up ! I loved reading the last one...hahah...

kimonolover

2005-06-10, 05:15 AM

Last night I played the mission titled 'Revenge" with a cheatcode. IT rocked! I was supposed to escort Kates to strike a USN carrier after midway (hence the name). I took off prematurely in a Kate and sank all 3 ships before the other planes formed up!

robred

2005-06-14, 05:57 PM

paulh

2005-06-14, 08:04 PM

Why is kimonolover allowed to use a racist term about Chinese people on this forum? With no comment from anybody, I add. Please delete this racist term asap.

Some advice for kimonolover - the Chinese are always verbally bashed in Japan for being `criminals`, etc because of a minority of them engaging in crimes. Maybe you`d fit in fine here with the mindset but it doesn`t give you the right to throw around the word `chinkos` in your misguided and sad posts.

Robred, Take no notice of him, hes an underachiever piece of white trash from Northy Carolina with delusions of grandeur. Kid doesnt know any better and has no idea about Chino-Japanese politics when he cant see it from this side of the pond. China has every right to be angry at Japan, and America only has itself to blame for the latest trade imbalances.

Put him in a room full of Koreans Chinese and Japanese and Im sure hed have a hard time telling the difference between them. Not all Chinese are like Jackie Chang and Jet Li and Japanese dont all wear shiromuku.

kurogane

2005-06-14, 09:23 PM

mcalpine

2005-06-14, 10:53 PM

Robred,

I've ran into you once before, sad you never returned my PM.
First, I need to defend my guy Kimonolover. For the last several months now KL has intertained us with his ability to come off as rather extreme ! Nothing wrong with that...and no, he shouldn't of used the racist term "______" much like "Gaijin" is used by the Japanese. If you break the Kanji down into the "ON" and "Kun" readings the term gaijin resembles a man urinating at night ! The crescent moon and the jin kanji leaning against the moon symbolizes a man pissing outside in the night. And yes, maybe that's not entirely racist but it's derogatory and yet we accept it as it is. Furthermore, I can't believe how some people could stab other people in the back; you know who you are. If you thought that KL was crazy then you should've just told him straight ! Not offer him advice then tell Robred how demented and crazy you think KL is. I'm sure some people think I'm crazy but at least I make sense. Like this thread says " It's not a CRIME to visit Yasukuni" but, some people like Robred who would rather censor and tell poeple what he thinks that they should think is flat out wrong. Sure we should tone it down a bit on the rhetoric and maybe stay on topic but sometimes it's okay to vent just to drive a point. By doing this, it fosters understanding. The Chinese have the wrong notions of the Japanese and the Japanese have the wrong notions about the Chinese. Both sides have narrow one-sided views. It's culturally acceptable for the Japanese to deny everything and it's culturally acceptable for the Chinese to blame everybody accept themselves, we as foreigners understand this. But to sit back just pretend that somehow everything is going to just fix itself is flat out wrong.

McTojo

mcalpine

2005-06-14, 11:09 PM

http://blog.bcchinese.net/bingfeng/archive/2005/04/24/18616.aspx

Very interesting read.

aha yes

2005-06-14, 11:19 PM

...hes an underachiever piece of white trash from Northy Carolina with delusions of grandeur.
For the record, kimonoboy is from Southy Carolina, NOT Northy Carolina, whence yours truly hails. I know it doesn't make a bit of difference to anybody else, but it makes a BIG difference to me. Remember, the more southerly state is the one that smells funny and breeds thickheaded nuts like the poster in question.

aha yes

2005-06-14, 11:27 PM

The Chinese have the wrong notions of the Japanese and the Japanese have the wrong notions about the Chinese. Both sides have narrow one-sided views. It's culturally acceptable for the Japanese to deny everything and it's culturally acceptable for the Chinese to blame everybody accept themselves, we as foreigners understand this...
Definitely the most balanced insightful comment I've seen from you macalpy. I'd almost think you're willing to co-exist with the Chinese.

As for the Yasukuni thing, you know the PM's mule-headed when even the war criminals' families are trying to discourage him from visiting...

kimonolover

2005-06-19, 12:50 AM

I have a sneaky suspicion that the Japanese PM and parliament are trying to pissing off the Chinese by doing somehting they have the right to do. I have some respect for Koizumi for visiting Yasukuni. That shows he has a pair. THe Chinese are used to being able to bully PPL around and don't like it that they can't tell Koizumi what not to do.

I would love to visit this war memorial shrine! I would also like to visit Hihroshima and Nagasaki.

What the Chinese Government is doing here is playing the victim card, which they have done for many years. The Japanese may be doing this to turn up the heat. China was wrongly awarded a seat on the UN security council by the winning gangsters who made the un. The un is like an international mafia with a built-in caste system. IT is utterly corrupt and was created by the REAL war criminals of WWII.

The Chinese are playing on crap that is 60 years old to try and hold Japan down trade wise, influence wise, and otherwise. THey are saying that because Japanese are inherently untrustworthy and can only spread misery. I wish SOMEONE would flood the media with stories and documentaries about Chinese aggression and atrocities SINCE WWII.

The real point is that Japan has been in line since WWII and China has fought all it's bordering neighbors in very aggressive, costly, atrocious wars for some land to use as a military base or some raw materials or whatever. They fought India and captured a small part of its northern extreme, They have occupied and inslaved Tibet, a peaceful nation that has never provoked anyone, They have fought Vietnam for some islands to establish a naval base and maybe an air base too. The CCP has also attacked american forces during the Korean war when Harry Truman's REAL leadership qualities were displayed. Truman could sleep easy after murdering God only knows how many defenceless JApanese, but couldn't fight China at a time when they were actually pretty weak. They had manpower, but it was starving manpower with almost no training.

So, what I'm getting at hgere is that China is the real threat and JApan is the defender. PPL need to stop being so stupid! The writing is on the walls!

Just liek the robred attacking my unnecessary terminology. Ity was intirely off-point. I seriously doubt robred could paryticipate in a real discussion without attacting someone using an unsensitive term.

Grow Up or I'll call you something mean, and most PPL will agree with it!

stillnosheep

2005-06-20, 05:19 AM

Be a good boy now Kimonolover, otherwise the sheep gonna start doing what the sheep do best you hear...

eku

2005-06-20, 06:39 AM

I say again ! To ALL peoples of the world ! It's not a crime to visit Yasukuni Jinjya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every Japanese person should at least once in their life pay a visit to this shrine if not anything else but to learn something from it. It is a shrine that is supported by over 2 million Japanese people who would like to see the former glory rise again !

This shrine is the last great memory, the last great symbol of Japans greatest hour in history !
This is the shrine that reminds us all; including our enemies that Japan was great and will be Great !!!!!!!!!

Personally I think everybody should visit

1) the peace memorial in hiroshima

2) the remnants of the Berlin Wall

3) any concentration/prisoner of war camp,
doesn't matter if it was Nazi, Japanese, Chinese, American (the camps where the US Japanese were kept would have made a great museum) Arab...whatever...anywhere where human rights took a sabbatical

4)any refugee camp where there are starving children

The past is for learning how not to feck up the present...thereby ensuring a better future.

wish it was so simple.

kimonolover

2005-06-21, 03:52 AM

McTojo,

I owe you some thinks for quickly responding in my defese against the enemy. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

kimonolover

2005-06-21, 04:03 AM

I am loading crap from the storage unit and starting to pack. I found a 1/48 scale model A6M2 Zero and it is very nice. I am mostly complete but need to install landing geer and it will be ready for display. Man, that sky grey paint with the black engine cowl is soo awesome looking. I finished it out with Akagi 2nd squadron markings and used all authentic paint. Man! It'a a beauty! The zero is the hands down most beautiful airplane ever designed! Nobody beat Japan for aircraft body styling!

I want a zero, a real one, a sky grey A6M2 with Akagi or Hiyru markings on it. I guess I better get a really good paying job!

mcalpine

2005-06-21, 09:20 AM

I think Kiichi reflects the old
stupid obsequious behaviour the Japanese people have been displaying for so long! And that is, sell our souls out at the expense of bilateral relations if one side has greater potential than the other. Instead, he should be trying to inspire the youth of today to be more aspiring towards the improvement of Japan. He should speak on the condition of this generation and make it a political issue instead of kissing up to untrustworthy China. Yasukuni is a symbol of peace and sacrifice. What China wants to do is politicize it by painting Japans history as a history of crime and deception. China wants to strip Japan of her soul ! China has no interest in bilateral relations with Japan at all ! And that's why people like Kiichi and posters like you people fail to see and understand what's really going on.

If the Japanese people did a consensus on Yasukuni and the majority of Japanese 'only' agreed to remove the shrine because of personal and ancestral reasons then sure remove it ! But if the majority of those same peole voted to remove it just to improve relations then well, that's stupid!!!!! Especially, when you consider the cultural relevance of how asian people in general treat the dead.

mcalpine

2005-06-21, 09:30 AM

I applaude Koizumi on his audacity. Long live Koizumi !

kimonolover

2005-07-24, 10:32 AM

hi,

I just thot I'd get this thread back in the spotlight.

Why was I born in ameriKKKa!

paulh

2005-07-24, 10:49 AM

hi,

I just thot I'd get this thread back in the spotlight.

Why was I born in ameriKKKa!

１．Ｙｏｕｒ　ｐａｒｅｎｔｓ　ｗｅｒｅ　ｉｌｌｅｇａｌ　ｉｍｍｉｇｒａｎｔｓ　ｆｒｏｍ　ｔｈｅ　ｇｒｅａｔ　Ｗｈｉｔｅ　Ｎｏｒｔｈ．

２．　Ｙｏｕ　ｗｅｒｅ　ｃｏｎｃｅｉｖｅｄ　ｉｎ　ａｎ　ａｉｒｐｌａｎｅ　ｔｏｉｌｅｔ　ｆｌｙｉｎｇ　ｏｖｅｒ　Ｃｈｉｃａｇｏ．

３．　Ｙｏｕ　ｗｅｒｅ　ｊｕｓｔ　ｂｏｒｎ　ｕｎｌｕｃｋｙ．

Tyler

2005-07-26, 02:27 AM

Why was I born in ameriKKKa!

Don't you mean "Why wasn't I born in Japan?"

Either way, the obvious answer is because you were a racist oyaji in your past life. You are now forced to live that which you dislike the most, thereby living in a state of perpetual self hatred and remorse.

Doesn't karma suck?

kimonolover

2005-07-26, 02:50 AM

That's a funny one Tyler, but I'll take Paulh's number 3 as the most credible explanation. Karma won't suck when ameriKKKa get a double portion from her own cup!

I have asked "Why wasn't I born JApanese?" plenty of times. So far, no answer. I just want to leave america and not being american't would be nice even if I can't be Jpanese. I'm looking at a few English-speaking countries like NZ and Ireland. I want cooler weather and less corruption.

Tyler

2005-07-26, 02:56 AM

I just want to leave america and not being american't would be nice even if I can't be Jpanese. I'm looking at a few English-speaking countries like NZ and Ireland. I want cooler weather and less corruption.

Aah, now I understand. Both NZ and Ireland do seem like nice peaceful countries to live in. If you're looking for a country that is as least like America as possible perhaps NZ is a good bet...

mcalpine

2005-08-15, 08:43 AM

Today is Tojo's Yasukuni day ! I encourage all to visit the shrine with me ! See you !

aha yes

2005-08-15, 11:20 AM

Today is Tojo's Yasukuni day ! I encourage all to visit the shrine with me ! See you !
I'll give Koizumi et al. the benefit of the doubt that they visit Yasukuni to rightly honor the war dead DESPITE the war criminals who are there. You, on the other hand, visit BECAUSE there are war criminals there. You are diseased.

da314man

2005-08-18, 02:01 AM

stillnosheep

2005-08-18, 05:14 PM

mcalpine

2005-08-18, 05:37 PM

It's good to see another crony ! I will make juicy comments on this post ! Can't wait

mcalpine

2005-08-18, 05:44 PM

Bibulousman

2005-08-18, 06:09 PM

I am right now afraid to go "home" and afraid to stay out any longer! Fear, and terror normal for me. My life is one of hiding and fear. I don't know how I even get through each day, but somehow I do it. I don't know why...

I just saw this thread today a few days after almost being trampled near Yasukuni by Japanese police and Chinese / Asian protesters (Wasn't going to Yasukuni, happened to be in the general area).

Is this guy Kimono Lover for real? I think it's hilarious how much he loves his "home" country. Doesn't he know he'll be treated like a second-class gaijin ____ for not having the decency to be pure-blood? Can't wait till he gets "home" and learns how "great" the Japanese are and what they'll think about half breeds.

da314man

2005-08-20, 12:32 PM

Yes, History is written by the victors. And?

"Tojo was doing his job". As was Hermann Himmler, as was Josef Mengele, as (at a pinch) was Adolf Hitler. If they had won would that have made them any less murdering rascist fascist bastards? They simply would have avoided prosecution for thier crimes, if they had survived. Luckily they didn't win. That is why attempts to downplay their criminality are illegal in Germany.

So, by that logic, the Nanking Massacre and the extermination of jews are completely different from the fire bombings of Tokyo? Lets see:

Nanking: Estimated deaths in excess of 300,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking

Nazi Concentration camps: Extermination of 11 million minorities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany

Tokyo Fire Bombings: over 500,000 (extrapolated from the data that over 100,000 were killed in the first 2 day bombing that included 344 planes, and nearly 2000 bombing runs were made in total)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_in_World_War_II

Yasukuni honors the war dead from WWII, that includes Americans, Chinese, and Tiwanese. Tojo and the rest of the "Class A" war criminals are no less a casualty of war than Gypsies killed in Germany or the deaths at the Battle of Shanghai. Honoring the war dead, and pledging against waging war in the future are far more future looking and socially responsable actions than demanding apologies and demanding a re-write of history books (ever see a Chinese history book? What a joke those are).

Curtis Lemay said himself that if the US hade not won, he would have been tried as a war criminal for approving the tokyo bombings. The Tokyo firebombings were not an end all beat all attempt to end WWII! They were a systematic extermination of civilians.

So what is the point of re-hashing history and trying to justify that somehow killing a few thousand Jews is as bad/better/worse than what happened in Nanking or Tokyo. And 2paclives - What is your point about slavery? Want an apoloy for it? You will not get one from me. EVERYONE agrees that slavery was and is a bad thing.

My point is that we need to move on. China telling Koizumi to aplolgize again is like telling the american people to make a whites only pledge of allegiance that contains an apology to all blacks for slavery.

The Japanese are not in denial, they are moving on with life.

kitano

2005-08-20, 12:52 PM

Every year I live in Japan the more these issues bother me. As a group they show the intense racism underlying Japanese society. I think the real message of the war criminals being enshrined at Yakasuni is that no matter what you do, no matter how much suffering you inflict if you have Japanese blood in your veins you are ok. On the other hand if you are foreign, no matter how much you have suffered it is not important, you are not Japanese. Considering the suffering inflicted on asian countries by Japan is it so hard to call them the 'invasions' that they are rather than 'advances'? If Hiroshima and Nagasaki are crimes then surely Japan's wartime actions are also crimes, why is it so easy for Japanese people to acknowledge A-bomb victims and so hard to acknowledge asian victims of Japan's wartime aggression? Simple, The A-bomb victims were Japanese and therefore important and the others were foreign and therefore unimportant. That is the underlying fact that is hard to move beyond.

mcalpine

2005-08-20, 04:56 PM

314 nice post.
I'M at work now so I can't comment right now, tonight I will.

mcalpine

2005-10-18, 08:32 PM

All of the feedback I got from you guys was great ! Yes, there are alot of people who would rather see Japan come to terms with her war past than to see a sort of right-wing resurgence.

Thanks to posts like these I've gained immense knowledge on how the world view's latter day and present day Japan from a very broad perspective. Since taking up the mantle of Hideki Tojo I have struggle with unpleasant dreams and nightmares and have even experiencing forms of meloncholy at times.

My fascination with Japan never began with Tojo. But I think Tojo and I share the same conviction which is the realization of a great and homogeneous Japan with very little to no influence from the West. I imagine myself a hero of Japan but I too will fade away. I remember the words of Douglas MacArthur "Old heroes never die, they just fade away." If the Japanese can't stand for something that they believe in strongly, regardless of historical accuracies & inaccuracies, then the Japanese will fall for anything that is deemed not popular with the rest of the world.

I remember my first year in Japan like I remember my first taste of nihonshu and the Jukujo like it was yesterday with my eye's closed. When I open my eye's now all I see is a mere shadow of what was once a paradigm of heaven. Only a resistance to culture is what's left like a silhouette against a black background with no shape and voided out; emptiness and barren like a hollowed out tree, sapless and lifeless people who walk around like drones talking on cellphones.

My purpose now is defined by what I love to do. Things like travel and philandering jukujo and enjoying nihonshu.

Morning Star

2005-11-25, 05:07 PM

My purpose now is defined by what I love to do. Things like travel and philandering jukujo and enjoying nihonshu.
I can respect that.

Does anyone know what happened with the meeting that was supposed to be held on November 8th about creating a National war memorial to replace Yasukuni shrine and exclude the Class A War Criminals?

kurogane

2005-11-25, 05:37 PM

Does anyone know what happened with the meeting that was supposed to be held on November 8th about creating a National war memorial to replace Yasukuni shrine and exclude the Class A War Criminals?

I cancelled it. More meaningless committees planned by the unremarkable trying to do the unecessary.

Yasukuni is fine the way it is. All they need to do is make a full state level apology. Not that that is going to happen under these right-winged wrong thinkers.

mcalpine

2006-02-20, 01:41 AM

waller come back I was just kidding.

arginjapan

2006-02-20, 10:14 AM

waller come back I was just kidding.
You know, I think there are enough threads out there for you to comment on so that you don't feel the need to resurrect three month-old ones that have clearly inflamed most (if not all of) GaijinPot.

What is your problem?

nosferatu

2006-02-23, 05:03 PM

Sorry to disagree with you, but Tojo was doing his job. Japan was at war. Had they won, we would all be having a day off in honor of Tojo Hideki. It is a common fact that history is written by the victors.

Yes indeed, Tojo was doing his job. Shame he wasn't very good at it though. All he managed to give his people and the Japanese Empire was a serious spanking and lots of drunken Marines running around Yokosuka because of it. Go tip your hat to him by all means. I don't change the fact that we won:)

mcalpine

2006-02-23, 05:44 PM

Yes indeed, Tojo was doing his job. Shame he wasn't very good at it though. All he managed to give his people and the Japanese Empire was a serious spanking and lots of drunken Marines running around Yokosuka because of it. Go tip your hat to him by all means. I don't change the fact that we won:)

America lost, don't you know by now ? I don't see how America won the war. Bought it to an end, yes ! Won the war No. Japan is better because of it and when Bush finally finalizes this new port deal

nosferatu

2006-02-23, 05:57 PM

America lost, don't you know by now ? I don't see how America won the war. Bought it to an end, yes ! Won the war No. Japan is better because of it and when Bush finally finalizes this new port deal

I'm not American but I do know that if they didn't have troops here or close ties with Japan...China, North and South Korea and possibly even Russia would all be lining up to take a peice of your scrawny little four-eyed ___. Who gives a toss about Bush! he's a noodle! so's Blair and Koizumi for that matter.

I take a huge dump in your emperors hat.

Now I'm signing off from this post coz ur a numpty and this will go on forever otherwise.

Barzini Zoft

mcalpine

2006-02-23, 08:17 PM

I'm not American but I do know that if they didn't have troops here or close ties with Japan...China, North and South Korea and possibly even Russia would all be lining up to take a peice of your scrawny little four-eyed ___. Who gives a toss about Bush! he's a noodle! so's Blair and Koizumi for that matter.

I take a huge dump in your emperors hat.

Now I'm signing off from this post coz ur a numpty and this will go on forever otherwise.

Barzini Zoft

four eye's hahaha...scrawny....numpty....you are stand up material.

nosferatu

2006-02-23, 08:24 PM

I know....how's the hat feeling?

edinjapan

2006-02-23, 09:38 PM

nosferatu

2006-02-23, 10:20 PM

After the war and the Treaty of San Francisco there were a number of private communications between the Nationalist Chinese and the Japanese and later the PRC and the Japanese. An apology was offered to the Nationalists and accepted but turned down by the PRC.

The Japanese made reparations to both the Communist and Nationalist Chinese in the form of money, technical expertise and equipment with the understanding that there would be no interference in the internal politics of either of the three countries.

Shintaro Ishihara and Aso repeatedly broke that agreement in 2004 and again in 2005 and the PRC set the dogs on the Japanese government with the covert assistance of the Democratic Socialist Party of Japan.

It's all politics but, I would like to see the Japanese stand up in the United Nations and reply to the Chinese in the following manner.

The Japanese Prime Minister will at his disgression visit whichever shrines in Japan he wishes to and worship as he pleases. If the government of the Peoples Republic of China wish for him to mollify this stance they must adhere to the following 4 articles

1. They will not seek interfere in Japan's internal poitics.
2. They will not teach false propoganda about the Japanese people.
3. They will dismantle the internet firewall that prohibits freedom of speech in the PRC.
4. They will not supply their neighbours and proxies with weapons to threaten the peace and sovereinity of neighbouring countries (a poke at their selling weapons and other technology to N Korea)

Lastly and with a straight face the PM should say to the assembled delegates

If the Government of the People's Republic of China does not want to discuss a reasonable and just settlement to issues before between our two countries then we invite them to show their true belligerent face by unilaterally declaring war upon Japan.

Then watch those suckers backpedal.

Ed.......such a great idea. Why haven't they done it already? Because it's w@nk, that's why.

You think the Japanese don't develop and sell weapons to the highest bidder? Incidentally have the US got any nukes in S.Korea? I don't know but you might. Do Japan buy most of their oil from Iran too?

You seem well versed and hats off for that, but i honestly don't think your clever little scheme would look like working no matter who much you chuckled at your own brilliance as you typed it.

Yes the chinese are underhanded, and yes they do pump their people with dodgy propaganda about how awful the Japanese are.

But unless Japan diversifies it's economy and continues to try and further modernise and sophisticate it's financial markets, they will be doing the backpedalling.

Maybe that's why despite all his little visits to the shrine, Koizumi has no problems keeping a very straight face.

edinjapan

2006-02-24, 04:49 AM

You think the Japanese don't develop and sell weapons to the highest bidder?

No, they don't. They are prohibited by law from doing so and the US Government will be all over them like a bad case of AIDS if they did. There's a big scandal starting to brew of a company that sold machinery to a Chinese concern and it was just recently found in a N Korean nuclear facility. The President of the company is now spending his days next to Horie.

Incidentally have the US got any nukes in S.Korea? I don't know but you might.

Pocket nukes? You bet! They have them here in Japan as well-why do you think there is the policy of don't tell don't ask.

Do Japan buy most of their oil from Iran too?

Most Japanese oil is from Saudi sources. They lost a contract with Kuwait 2 years ago and the Iranians are pissed at the Japanese Government and won't sell to them. But, the Iranians don't worry as the French purchase most of their oil.

You seem well versed and hats off for that, but i honestly don't think your clever little scheme would look like working no matter who much you chuckled at your own brilliance as you typed it.

Yes, I was chuckling as I wrote it, I knew it would stir the pot. Yes, you could say it's bait...

I was also having visions of several well known, highly placed, governmental racists getting a hold of this text and actually standing up and saying this in a public forum. If that actually did happen I'd be ROTFLMAOSBOMN

Yes the chinese are underhanded, and yes they do pump their people with dodgy propaganda about how awful the Japanese are.

Please tell us something new! My first trip to China was in 1970, my second trip was in the summer of 89. Despite the changes there were no changes.

But unless Japan diversifies it's economy and continues to try and further modernise and sophisticate it's financial markets, they will be doing the backpedalling.

When I arrived in this country there were 50 major banks. How many are there now? It's taken them longer to clean up the economy than it took to clean up the S&L mess in the US. Don't hold your breath over banking and financial reform in Japan.

Maybe that's why despite all his little visits to the shrine, Koizumi has no problems keeping a very straight face.

I think it's all the drugs he takes. No grip on reality.

mcalpine

2006-02-24, 08:02 AM

aha yes

2006-02-24, 01:24 PM

You suck nosferatu, go back to kindergarten.
You're a pin cushion, Toejam!

cutyourhair

2006-02-24, 02:14 PM

After a couple of months here, its beyond me why McTojo is not banned. He contributes very little and I honestly doubt that he even lives in Japan.

edinjapan

2006-02-24, 02:37 PM

After a couple of months here, its beyond me why McTojo is not banned. He contributes very little and I honestly doubt that he even lives in Japan.

Could he be Shintaro Ishihara in disguise? They both spout the same lines and ideology over and over. But, I guarantee you wouldn't see either of these characters actually putting their money where their loudspeakers are.

And I'm very surprised that loudspeakers can actually work when they are in that location.

nosferatu

2006-02-24, 02:47 PM

You suck nosferatu, go back to kindergarten.

heee heeee heeeee

edinjapan

2006-02-25, 03:26 AM

I want a zero, a real one, a sky grey A6M2 with Akagi or Hiyru markings on it. I guess I better get a really good paying job!

Would you settle for a De Havellin Harvard. Both aircraft are almost identical in appearance and flight characteristics. The only difference was the Zero was a fighter and the Harvard was a trainer. You will be hardpressed to even find 1 Zero today the few that are left are either in museums or are being flown by groups like Canadian Warplane Heritage http://www.warplane.com/pages/services_grouptours.html
And here is the only still flying Zero in existance http://www.flightonline.mcmail.com/pof.htm

mcalpine

2006-07-11, 01:46 AM

You know, I think there are enough threads out there for you to comment on so that you don't feel the need to resurrect three month-old ones that have clearly inflamed most (if not all of) GaijinPot.

What is your problem?

argindude, come back , please, come back !

CLOWNPUNCHER

2006-07-11, 08:21 PM

Tojo was doing his job and so was Hermann Himmler as was Josef Mengele .

As were the people who brought and sold the Negro slaves to the new world.

They were doing their job.

Hope you can see the irony in that Mc Tojo

mcalpine

2006-07-11, 09:29 PM

As were the people who brought and sold the Negro slaves to the new world.

They were doing their job.

Hope you can see the irony in that Mc Tojo

Kodak and Goodyear sold slaves too. Besides, Africans in Africa were just as responisible for the slave trade as well. 30 million West Africans were kidnapped into slavery and were aided and abetted by their own people so the slavery card has no merit.

arisuta

2006-07-12, 05:37 PM

Kodak and Goodyear sold slaves too. Besides, Africans in Africa were just as responisible for the slave trade as well. 30 million West Africans were kidnapped into slavery and were aided and abetted by their own people so the slavery card has no merit.

The Africans who supplied the slave trade were meeting a demand and getting rid of their tribal enemies at the same time. If there had been no market for slaves, the trade would have been as small as it is today.
Anyhoo, still doesn't excuse the Japanese for enshrining convicted war criminals in with everyone else. The shinto authorities have been asked about removing the remains from the shrine in order to remove the stigma, but they said it was impossible. WHY? all the rules of every religion were created by men and should therefor be easy to alter if the circumstances merit it. This brings us back to the fact that the right wing establishment that the Americans virtually reinstalled after the war, want things to remain exactly as they are, (or get more fascistic).

mcalpine

2006-07-12, 07:07 PM

The Africans who supplied the slave trade were meeting a demand and getting rid of their tribal enemies at the same time. If there had been no market for slaves, the trade would have been as small as it is today.
Anyhoo, still doesn't excuse the Japanese for enshrining convicted war criminals in with everyone else. The shinto authorities have been asked about removing the remains from the shrine in order to remove the stigma, but they said it was impossible. WHY? all the rules of every religion were created by men and should therefor be easy to alter if the circumstances merit it. This brings us back to the fact that the right wing establishment that the Americans virtually reinstalled after the war, want things to remain exactly as they are, (or get more fascistic).

I can't get to heavy into this but it's practically unheard of for a Japanese person to acknowledge any kind of guilt or responsibility on a psychological level. Historically, the Japanese have always committed suicide rather than to loose face and admit guilt. Those judicial martyrs cannot be removed from the shrine because they are no longer considered war criminal according to the San Francisco Peace Treaty in which the LDP immediatly moved to pass a unanimous decision to label them as martyrs. Thus, their bereaved and family members receive a pension.

arisuta

2006-07-13, 08:13 AM

I can't get to heavy into this but it's practically unheard of for a Japanese person to acknowledge any kind of guilt or responsibility on a psychological level. Historically, the Japanese have always committed suicide rather than to LOOSE(?) face and admit guilt. Those judicial martyrs cannot be removed from the shrine because they are no longer considered war criminal(S) according to the San Francisco Peace Treaty in which the LDP immediatly moved to pass a unanimous decision to label them as martyrs. Thus, their bereaved (and) family members receive a pension.

I can't get TOO heavily into this either as I will burst a blood vessel at how moronic, short-sighted and twisted the Americans were in dealing with Japan after the war.
On another note, as you are an English teacher,(hahahahahahahahahahaha), please study the language so that you do not pass on your lack of linguistic ability to your poor, hapless students.

mcalpine

2006-07-13, 08:20 AM

I can't get TOO heavily into this either as I will burst a blood vessel at how moronic, short-sighted and twisted the Americans were in dealing with Japan after the war.
On another note, as you are an English teacher,(hahahahahahahahahahaha), please study the language so that you do not pass on your lack of linguistic ability to your poor, hapless students.

Thank you sensei for correcting my poor grammar.

zeeidiotsare@yahoo.com

2006-07-13, 08:32 AM

I can't get TOO heavily into this either as I will burst a blood vessel at how moronic, short-sighted and twisted the Americans were in dealing with Japan after the war.

Still the occupation met AMERICAN interests, and Japan made a recovery that would make other countries that have been occuppied, say Bulgaria under the Turkish yoke, green with envy. The Yanks were in it for themselves, and they got what they wanted. That Japan got some benefits from the Korean War and the Cold War is obvious. However short-sighted the US was it is hard to find a better example of successful occupation. Would you care to share one with me? I am interested to know of one in the 20th century.

zeeidiotsare@yahoo.com

2006-07-13, 08:37 AM

I can't get to heavy into this but it's practically unheard of for a Japanese person to acknowledge any kind of guilt or responsibility on a psychological level.

Thank God you are not Japanese and can acknowledge the guilt of Western imperialism inherit with use of English as a medium of communication in this century. What are you going to do about it now psychologically?

sanachan

2006-07-13, 11:53 AM

umm japan did make and sell munitions after the war. during the koran and vienam war. do a little history check before you preech facts so strongly

arisuta

2006-07-13, 12:45 PM

Still the occupation met AMERICAN interests, and Japan made a recovery that would make other countries that have been occuppied, say Bulgaria under the Turkish yoke, green with envy. The Yanks were in it for themselves, and they got what they wanted. That Japan got some benefits from the Korean War and the Cold War is obvious. However short-sighted the US was it is hard to find a better example of successful occupation. Would you care to share one with me? I am interested to know of one in the 20th century.

Fair enough, it met their needs, but they could have achieved similar results and still improved the political lot of the Japanese people. I don't deny that the Japanese economy also was a model of progress and sucess, but, again, the Japanese people have paid a high price in terms of quality of life.

mcalpine

2006-07-13, 04:03 PM

Thank God you are not Japanese and can acknowledge the guilt of Western imperialism inherit with use of English as a medium of communication in this century. What are you going to do about it now psychologically?

What point are you getting at ?

sanachan

2006-07-13, 07:24 PM

arisuta
are you saying that japanese people dont have a high quality of life??

arisuta

2006-07-14, 08:16 AM

arisuta
are you saying that japanese people dont have a high quality of life??

Yeah, sadly. A friend of mine works for Panasonic in a big office. They cannot see outside and sit at their desks until late at night to earn extra overtime. They are all scared to be the first to leave as they will be seen as lazy, so they sit at their desks and surf the web. Many of them don't want to go home as there is nothing much there for them either, (loveless, arranged marriages). They are entitled to the usual number of holidays a year, but never take them all, and certainly not all in one go, so they add a day to the odd weekend here and there. Basically, they never do anything interesting and never go anywhere exciting, sounds bad to me. I'm sure that a lot of people do enjoy a high quality of life, surfing, skiing and travelling, but a lot of salarymen, (and women), do have a drudge of a life. (Oh God! I AM turning into neech!)

sanachan

2006-07-14, 03:01 PM

arisuta

2006-07-14, 05:36 PM

the same could be said for any number of work forces in nearly every country. a couple of misserable salary men doesnt make a whole populations life quality bad. dont the japanese people still have the longest life expectancy?? obviously life cant be too bad for the general public.
the problem for a lot of japanese men in misserable marriages is that after having kids many dont see their wife as a woman any longer, only as the mother of their child. so when they dont have a side girl they are misserable.

Agreed, it is a generalisation, but my workplace is the same. We can't socialise with the Japanese workers because they don't have any free time.
The Japanese either HAVE the longest lives in the world, OR, it just feels like it, (haha). It seems to me that a lot of the Japanese who are out enjoying themselves and seeing the world are either taking time out before starting Uni, or a job or they are retired.

SunRa

2006-07-14, 10:21 PM

After you take away the average hours spent at work the Japanese have the shortest `life` expectancy in the world.

sanachan

2006-07-16, 01:43 PM

you mean that japans expansion attempts were more aggressive and brutal than europes??? how many civilisations did the japanese wipe out???
how many kings and queens are considered war crims??
maybe south korea and china should go and help out in africa and stop the raping and so forth there before they sit and complain about ____ that happened over 50 years ago. so many people get stuck on past things and want to push these issues so far yet when it come to ____ thats actually happening now they are no where to be seen.
____ in this world we still have tibet, burma, most of africa, ache in indonesia. the list goes on and on.
but the visiting of graves is such a big issue. these ___ generals were not the worst and were not the last to order such torture.
____ could you imagine being a political prisioner in china?? hang sprawlled out with a candle buring your genitals, constant rape etc. but chinese doing it to chinese is very different than japanese doing it to chinese right??

Frontman

2006-07-17, 01:41 PM

Two weeks ago I was with my fiancee (a Japanese girl) at Daiba park by Tokyo bay on my first visit to this country.

The first time I had ever heard of Japan was from my grandfather. He was was one of the countless American soldiers crammed into and onto Navy ships which accompanied the battleship Missouri to accept the Japanese surrender.

In 1945 my grandfather was a 13 year veteran of the Army. One of the handful who escaped the Philipines with MacArthur. He returned with MacArthur and fought his way with his unit across the islands, and at the end of the war, found himself present for the signing of the surrender.

My grandfather never talked of combat, though he was highly decorated. But he did like to tell stories about his short stay in Japan after the war.

As a career soldier, he was impressed by the Japanese soldiers' bravery, and their ability to fight on, regardless of the hopelessness of their situation. On the other hand, he said he would never allow himself to be captured by the Japanese, knowing full well the treatment our POW's received at their hands.

He described his short stay in Japan after the surrender as "wonderful". By the order that prevailed in what should have been the most chaotic of times. By the politeness and hard work of the people as they went about picking up what remained of their lives. He was bemused at how the women seemed to do the brunt of the work, and always walked behind their husbands.

His stay in Japan was cut short by an accident. His outfit was charged with loading unused Japanese ordnance onto barges, and then dumping the ordnance in the deeper parts of the bay.

The ordnance had been collected from various places, and was stored in hangars near the water until it could be disposed of. The soldiers who disposed of the ordnance were billeted in the hangars along with the ordnance, to keep an eye on it.

One night there was an explosion. One of the men in the outfit was trying to light a Japanese gas stove to make a pot of coffee. The stove exploded violently, and ignited the nearby ordnance. The entire building went up. My grandfather and one other man were in the latrine taking showers. They were the only survivors.

My grandfather suffered cuts and bruises when he was blown out through a window. He lost his hearing in one ear permanently, which led to his discharge from the Army.

The outfit lost more men in that one moment than it had in two years of fighting across the Pacific.

My grandfather never expressed any resentment for those against whom he fought. They were men, soldiers, just like he was, brought into a war, and ordered by the powers that be to fight.

The cause that they gave their lives for was less important than the fact that they did give their lives. For that, they deserve respect.

As it grew dark that night, I laid down in the grass with my lady, and we made love beneath the rainbow bridge. It was the most fantastic night of my life. Never in my life would I have guessed that such a thing would happen at such a place, within sight of where my grandfather had spent his own time in Japan 60 years earlier.