Stop being Ashamed of being American

[california84]

I am getting so tired of all of these people putting the U.S. down. It is time that Americans be proud of who they are and of all our great accomplishments in the world. Yes, I know I going get those people say American start wars and persecuted people for our own self-interest. I know my government made Cuba, Iran, the former Iraq/ Afghanistan/ and many other country into what they are today, and that we created mess all over the world. We also rebuilt Japan, Western, and Eastern Europe. We invented the plane, the CD player, DVD, TV, found the cure for Polo, invent the modern Trauma system/ER system, the light bulb, the radio, computer, internet, and countless other inventions. We are the country of Martin Luther King, Benjamin Franklin, Truman, and countless other great leaders and scientist.

Now I ask my fellow Americans and those around me WHY ARE WE ASHAMED. We have done far more good then bad. We create more and free more. We invited countless human inventions that have increase the everyday life through the world.

While I may disagree with other country and even fellow Americans I support the rights and freedoms of others. Many immigrants came to American because they know they had the rights and abilities that could be found no were else in the world to conduct there scientist, technology, politics, and social system. For these reasons I believe that American is a great country. I am not Ashamed of being American nor should anyone else. Why are you proud of being an American?

Cali

[kurogane]

For these reasons I believe that American is a great country. I am not Ashamed of being American nor should anyone else. Why are you proud of being an American?
Cali

I can say without fear, favour, or prejudice that I have never ever ever been proud to be an American.

Sometimes, though, one of the secretaries at work makes comments about my hairline, like, "Pretty soon his head is going to be American". I don't know what to make of that.

Confusedly Canehdeean,

[Skyknight]

Cali,

Look, I got no problem with you being proud to be an American. I got no problem with American pride provided it doesn't interfere with the rest of the world running as it should. What I do have a problem with is presenting fabrications and half truths as "facts".


We invented the planeActually, the Wright brothers are credited with this but the actual invention and first flight was a few months before and it belonged to a German named Karl Jatho.

the CD playerTry the Dutch and Japanese, well a joint venture between Sony and Phillips.

DVDHitachi, JVC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, and Toshiba.

TVWell, Abbe Giovanna Caselli invented the "pantelegraph" which was a way to transmit information, in this case a picture, over a wire. Technically, it was the first TV.

found the cure for Polo yeah well they're still playing that in England so it's not completely wiped out yet.

invent the modern Trauma system/ER systemCan't find any evidence on this. Please cite your sources.

the light bulb Edison did have the patent on this but he didn't really invent it, he just bought the patent off the inventor and improved on it.
The Arc light was created in England as was "Limelight" (used in theatres) and the first actual light bulb by some guy named "Swan".

the radioDepending on how you look at this it was either Marconi, who was Italian and did the first test in Italy, the second test across the English Channel and the first transatlantic test between England and Newfoundland. Or it was Nikola Tesla, but he never was able to test it as his lab burned down. And while he was in the US, he was actually Serbian.

computerWhich computer are we talking about? The first was invented by the Chinese and it's called the "abacus". The first real computer would have been the "Analytical Engine" by Charles Babbage in England but he was never able to get it to work properly. The Brits then created the Manchester SSEM, followed by the Mark I in 1948 and 1949 respectively. The first US computer wasn't until the Univac came along in 1951.

internetYou mean ARPAnet. The internet grew out of the ARPAnet project.

Again, no problem with the entire patriotic thing. Just get your facts straight.

[california84]

The U.S. Army invented the modern Trauma Stystem and Era during the Korean War.

The Departemnt of Defence invented the Internet.

The first succesful plane was the Wright Brother who were american.

We can argue about this and that, but American has done a lot of good. Why are we constantly put the U.S. down?

[JayJay]

Actually, the Wright brothers are credited with this (and it was technically a powered glider). But the actual invention was a few years before and it belonged to the Germans.

I think the Wright Brothers are credited with the first powered flight to a position that was higher or the same level from were they started.
However it is arguable (though not proveable) that the completely crazy New Zealand inventor Richard Wright, flew a whole 6 months before the Wright Brothers. New Zealands isolation meant there was no way he could get the patient before the Wright Brothers, despite many eye witness acconts.


Edison did have the patent on this but he didn't really invent it, he just bought the patent off the inventor and improved on it.
The Arc light was created in England as was "Limelight" (used in theatres) and the first actual light bulb by some guy named "Swan".

Some sources paint Edison as a crook who stole other peoples ideas and patiented them to take credits. I can't back this up though.


Depending on how you look at this it was either Marconi, who was Italian and did the first test in Italy, the second test across the English Channel and the first transatlantic test between England and Newfoundland. Or it was Nikola Tesla, but he never was able to test it as his lab burned down. And while he was in the US, he was actually Serbian.

Yes I heard Marconi was the inventor of radio too. I saw a program about his attempt to broadcast from Britain to Newfoundland.


Which computer are we talking about? The first was invented by the Chinese and it's called the "abacus". The first real computer would have been the "Analytical Engine" by Charles Babbage in England but he was never able to get it to work properly. The Brits then created the Manchester SSEM, followed by the Mark I in 1948 and 1949 respectively. The first US computer wasn't until the Univac came along in 1951.

Ive actaully read a German invented the first programable computer just before the outbreak of WW2. Also the British did a lot to develop the computer during WW2 when they were trying to break the "engima" code used by German U-Boats. Most of the techniques used by America after the war were from advances made by the British (and Germans) and shared with their ally during the war.

America has indeed invented many great things but sometimes its hard to seperate who really "invented" something and who mearly "patented" it. Award for the cleverest inventors ever has to go to the Chinese however.

But I agree with Skyknight, America has done many great things for the world. For example, the US deserves a lot of credit for helping pick up the peices after WW2, and lending Europe and Japan a lot of money. Also during WW2, the lend-lease program of weapons, planes, tanks, etc, kept many beseiged Allied countries such as the USSR and the Britsh Commonwelth with "their heads above water" even before the US joined.

Nothing wrong with being proud of you homeland, wherever that may be.

[arginjapan]

found the cure for Polo

yeah well they're still playing that in England so it's not completely wiped out yet.
Nice post overall, but I enjoyed that part the most.

[california84]

So my question to you is when do you want the U.S. to take action. When the first Gulf War was over everyone yelled we should have go Husan. International Organization, have be yelling about the treatment of women in Afghanistan. SO there for what do we do? When is war just? When do start one?

One last thing the computer was invented by the Department of the Navy in 1943 by Rear Admiral Grace Hopper's . The first computer can be seen in the Smithson Institute in Washition D.C.

[User Name Deleted]

I've never really been a great fan of the Seppos, although there are many positive things that can be said about their country.
Among the negatives-
America is akin to a police state in a lot of ways (laws against everything, and severe penalties for even minor offences).
It has far too many fundamentalist christians who want to tell everyone else how to live their lives. Far too much bloody moralising.
It has a rather unintelligent man as president.

[takenoko]

I think the main reason why people hate america so much at the moment is because they (especially the politicians) are the biggest hypocrites. America does so much to demonstrate how bad many other countries are, and paint a picture of such a perfect citizen that America is. Of course the rest of the world knows better.

How can an American president ask, "Why do they hate us so much when we are so good?"
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html

If you go in for all the American propoganda then yes, you should be proud to be American, but unfortunately it's not the truth.

Basically though I think we are probably all hypocrites and all countries do things in their own self interest...

[Kumachan]

So my question to you is when do you want the U.S. to take action. When the first Gulf War was over everyone yelled we should have go Husan. International Organization, have be yelling about the treatment of women in Afghanistan. SO there for what do we do? When is war just? When do start one? I would say when it involves you personally, or your country is threatened.


One last thing the computer was invented by the Department of the Navy in 1943 by Rear Admiral Grace Hopper's . The first computer can be seen in the Smithson Institute in Washition D.C.
Uhm, I'm a bit of a computer geek here and I've studied the lineage of computers. While Grace Hopper did help (which was made at Harvard) she didn't invent it. And Grace joined the Naval Reserve in 1943, while the Mark 1 didn't come out until 1944. This was about 5 years after the Z1 was built in Germany, or 5 years after the inventor's lab burned down.

And while Skyknight seems to have gone out of his way to nitpick (although I did like the polo joke), he's right when he says the Analytical Engine was the first.



How can an American president ask, "Why do they hate us so much when we are so good?"
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
Interesting link. Wish I read through it instead of just skimming.

[eku]

first to drop the atomic bomb on a city full of civilians
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to go
Amerika uber alles?

Also America has Homeland Security...oooops not a first since the South Africans also had that... very efficient Apartheid inficting machine.... too bad you guys missed a first there....
better luck next time.

[california84]

Japan and Germany were both developing bombs. I am sure both would have been more then happy to drop a bomb on the U.S.. As I have said before the bomb save more life on both sides then it killed. That is not to say I would be in support of ever using the bomb again, but it was a necessary evil for its time.

Cali

[eku]

another world first for america
NAPALM

Though researchers had found ways to make jellied gasoline earlier, many of them required rubber as a principal component, which during wartime was a scarce commodity. In 1942, researchers at Harvard University and the U.S. Army Chemical Warfare Service found a rubber-less solution: mixing an aluminum soap powder of naphthalene and palmitate (naphthenic acid and palmitic acid, sodium palmitrate) with gasoline. This produced a substance which was highly flammable, yet slow burning. In World War II, incendiary bombs using napalm as their fuel were used against the German city of Dresden and during the firebombings of Japan.

After World War II, further refinement and development of napalm was undertaken by the government and its affiliated laboratories. Modern "napalm" contains neither naphthenic nor palmitic acids (despite the name), but often uses a bevy of other chemicals to stabilize the gasoline base. It is manufactured by Dow Chemical Company.

read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

[takenoko]

another world first for america
NAPALM

read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm
And from there you can also find a link to Agent Orange. Another lovely invention...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

and lets not forget the good ol Atomic Bomb...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb

Nice stuff that.


United States
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/United_States

[donpaulo]

well as an american I can say that I am rarely if ever ashamed to born there. It can be a great country, but like any other human endeavor its very capable of colosal farguppage.
If anything I think that Pride has alot to do with american's problems. For the most part americans are pretty clueless about the rest of the world. So they have little else but pride in themselves.
Often the ones who proclaim that the US is best country in the world are the ones who have never been anywhere but america. The fact that the US basically saved the EU twice from the horrors of war simply filled americans with even more pride. Then "winning" the cold war by bankrupting the CCCP made the problem even worse.
Its resulted in a world of US unilateralism. I suppose it could be much worse, but the system sometimes can be exposed as fraudulent. Such as when they invade iraq on the pretext of WMD...
I think american's strength is as an innovator, since we lack some of the more rigid social stratifications of other "older" cultures and countries. The US didn't invent the computer but they made it a world changing technology, nor did they invent the internal combustion engine but they did take it to the next level (I suppose that is a bad thing these days) nor did they invent the rocket, but they did send men to the moon. So all in all I think they have been a net positive.

The world is certainly a world with more freedoms enjoyed by people in the northern hemisphere. Just think if Germany and Japan had won the war (scary thought there)

[frontview]

Just my two cents from a canadian, actually you will find that most canadians actually like americans. Its just your government we hate!! I hate ours too but there's another can of worms =) From what american friends that I have in japan, they are more than aware of how the US has influenced the world. Keep in mind that we have really no power to make these decisions to take over countries or make a mess around the world. Most american's are actually cool to hang out with!

[madmaxxam]

I'm proud to be an American! I'm not proud, however, of our current national government, many of the past governments, our 'modern' foreign policy, the arrogance of many Americans, etc. I do still have a great deal of pride for my country though, and am sure it will fix itself eventually. (If not, I might have to lend a helping hand).

[eku]

I am not canadian, but I second what was said above...
I don't hate americans, a lot of them a re really cool ppl
I don't really like your government...
I don't really like your foreign policy
what I don't like the most is that there are a loud few amongst you who are totally ignorant about your own country and who BLAHBLAH about how america is number one and can do no evil

most americans I have met, have a pretty balanced view of their country. can see the strengths and weaknesses, can see the good things it has done and the bad..... in fact I have met so many cool americans that I fear all the good guys are living abroad..... and that may be the problem
I have however met some real doozies, who think Bush can walk on water and that america won the vietnam war etc etc....
but in all things, there is diversity
and that is a good thing.

[frontview]

Ya I hate the canadian government too, I admit it. Our politics are a mess, full of coruption and lies. Canada is almost seperated, by the east and west language barrier. What is it, It almost seems like the days of old between the french and the britsh. Well being from British Columbia and having a british background it seems almost rediculous to think the french and british are still fighting. Does the monarchy still live in the west, well I saw the queen personally in vancouver and we have no intention of liberation again a old system of order. The quebec are strong in the east and have a 54 seats alone between the party ( block quebec)!!! I know that my spelling sucks. I believe three or four western provinces in canada alone don't even have that many seats. Yes its a eastern government for sure in canada, with almost no say in the west. Don't even get me started with the immagration policies the government imposes.

Anyways my point is, and I appologise for the rant is that all governments suck. Sucks big time. Actually most americans I have met are really not that ignorant or dominate. Or want to impose a New World Order, or kill people or what ever!!! It just seems to be the elite of society playing out a chess game in sorts!?

[kimonolover]

I was reading the first few posts thinking I may not have nuch to say. I mean who ACTUALLY thinks the americans invented optical disks (liek DVDs and CDs, MDs and whatever). Oh Pleez!

I rarely ever refer to the americans as 1st person like "We", esp. when talking about WWII! I very frequently fail to capitolize "america" "usa" or american". Sometimes, I say "ameriKKKa".

The good THEY did after WWII includes racist treaties, forcing a pacifist constitution and puppet government on JApan, attempted and with some success resaped a culture and corrupted it. established Hegemony over the PAcific and other regions. A whole lot of good they did! We'd (the collective human population on earth) be better off if Japan had won! Hopefully, the commies in China and N.Korea would be dead, Japan would have never been bombed, and there would be more PPL wearing kimonos.

[california84]

Yes, Kimonolover I was wrong. American did not invent the DVD player or the CD Player. We did not invent the World Wide Web, but we did give the majority of the funding and Tim Bernerse Lee did a lot of his research and work at MIT. Using the Transition Control protocols invented in 1973 by Vinton Cerf and a modem invented by Denis Hayes both Americans. Americans did invent the following that revolutionized the world;

1) Microchip- Jack Kilby
2) Intergraded Circuit-Jack Kilby and Rober Noyce
3) Air conditioning-Willis Carrier
4) Iron Suspension bridge-Jame Finley
5) Hand held camera-George Eastman
6) Defibrillator-Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhover
7) E-mail-Ray Tomlinson
8) Elevator-Elisha G. Otis
9) Laser- T.H. Maiman
10) Bifocal Glasses: Benjamin Franklin
11) Microwave oven-Percy Spencer
12) Motion Picture-Thomas Edison
13) The assembly line- Henry Ford
14) Pace Maker- Clarence Lillehie, Earl Bakk
15) T.V.-Vladimir Zworykin
16) Electrical Transformers- William Stanley
17) Tractor-Benjamin Holt
18) Typewriter-Christopher Sholes

What I am try to say is that a lot has come from America, because encourages individuality, overcoming the odds, and just ingenuity. A lot of people from around the world come to America to invent things, learn, and train for sports. Look at the Auto industry for example just in South California. Mercedes-Benz, Mazda, and Kia all have design studios in Orange County, California. In Los Angeles, about half hour north there are design studios for Porsche, BMW, Nissan, and Toyota, as well as a number of other car companies. Perhaps the most obvious reason for this is that Southern California has become a hub for auto design studios is that, like other industries, car companies want access to a talented, educated workforce, and top colleges and universities produce such a workforce existed in Southern California.
Therefore, companies seek out areas with educational institutions. The Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, about 1/2 hour north of downtown LA, produces many—if not most—of the automotive designers in the world. Chief designers for Ford, BMW, GM, Honda, and Mazda in southern California are all Art Center graduates.
I am not saying the U.S. invented the world or is the great country of all times. I am saying we are one the leading country in the world for inventors, business leaders, companies, and the country were many come to learn, invent, and train. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT PUTTING OTHER COUNTRY INVETION OR CONTRABUTION TO THE WORLD. God know the UK, Greece, Rome, China, and Japan have contributed immensely to the world and civilization. Please look past the U.S. government and instead look at out people and what they have done. We get thing done and for the most part get alone with the world.

Cali

[kimonolover]

Cali,

You've been putting up some good posts lately, and I can't dispute what you sed here about the inventions and all. The air conditioning is the biggest contribution to the world since kimonos and internal combustion engines.

My problems with America is the arrogance and blind, self imposed self righteousness they oozes from the government and many of the PPL I make contact with on a daily basis.

When America started out, It was likely the bast in the world as far as government and society goes. It created an environment conducive to invention. Great minds here and from abroad who came here worked and produced all sorts of stuff before other PPL because America protected intellectual property.

HAve you read original US govt. documents liek the Declaration of Independance? Those are AEWSOME documents! Those people were intelligent and had a pair. Today's PPL lack both. The clauses contained in those documents are completely opposed to the directiopn this country has taken over the past century or meybe even 150 years.

So, maybe this is a compromise, but any intelligent America hater will agree..

America used to be really awesome and the people who started it were great. However, it has decayed into a corrupt political hegemony grasping for mor and more power. alot of good has surprisingly survived to this day, but is threatened. We must feircely defend what freedoms we have with the system we have. If we don't, America is lost forever. PPL need to be vigilant and stop not caring. If PPL would get active, things woul dbe better. PPL just sit around and _____ about the government, but aren't willing to get up and do something about it.

[Aweqmaster]

I agree America should be commended for develop this world in the past few decades.

But with extra influence, power, wealth etc come with EXTRA responsibilities as a leader of the world. I am not denying USA should not be involved in worldly issues. But USA is influencing the world based on ITS INTERESTS without thinking about other countrys' interests that they are involved in.

Now a days, USA has used this "War on Terror" and "Safety for Our Citizens" approach to all of its foreign aggresive policies. Well. Look. If you (USA) would like to win the sympathy of some of the people/countries of this world, you better figure out WHY others don't like your policies.

WHY can you not enter an era of greater amnesty? If you, with all your wealth and power, distribute some to the world, they WILL look at you differently.

1. Nuclear weapons: why can other nations not have them when you and other nations have them, if else, JUST ban all Nuclear weapons and leave nuclear energy.

2. North Korean, I feel for these ppl, they don't have economic development. Take some of your "defend from North Korea" budget and make a pledge( long term) to perhaps loan them money. This all come after a REAL HUMAN APPROACH to Nuclear Weapons settlements. DAMN it, NORTH KOREA is just like CHINA in the 60s, when they hated the americans for being around their country. THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF SECURITY. ONLY AFTER economic development can North and South Unite. NORTH KOREANS are ppl too, they're just like the chinese, who were ignorant and needed to be strong so the world would come and help to develop the economy, but they were in no state, or lack of humanity to actually throw a bomb. GEEZES, we all live in the same world. IF ANY COUNTRY throws a bomb, I'll be the first to GO AND LEVEL that COUNTRY.

There's alot of you out there who hate north koreans, "look at what they are doing to their ppl" etc etc, well they deserve their right to govern their way, it may just be the best way for them at this time, BECAUSE they are not economically developed. As soon as the economy is developed, people would have more rights.


Please do throw things at me to debate, thanks for listening.

out

[observer]

What I am try to say is that a lot has come from America, because encourages individuality, overcoming the odds, and just ingenuity. A lot of people from around the world come to America to invent things, learn, and train for sports....

I am not saying the U.S. invented the world or is the great country of all times. I am saying we are one the leading country in the world for inventors, business leaders, companies, and the country were many come to learn, invent, and train...

Please look past the U.S. government and instead look at out people and what they have done. We get thing done and for the most part get alone with the world.
Cali

This does bring up an interesting question... How "American" are many of modern (post WWII) "American" inventions? Can America really claim all the credits for them?

Cali, next time when you come back to California, you may want to visit the campuses of many research-oriented UCs (Berkeley, LA, San Diego, Irvine, Davis...). And try walking into some graduate student lounges for any science/engineering departments, and do a mental check on student demography.

More likely than not, most science/engineering graduate students will be... from other countries. Such as China, India, Russia, etc.

It is well known among people in science and engineering that the US tech industry (regardless of specific disciplines) cannot be where it is, without the influx of foreign talents. In fact, I dare claim that a substantial number of those "American" inventions were made possible thanks to the input of immigrant researchers with foreign origins.

Now, as Cali mentioned briefly, it is certainly true that America should get some of its credit for creating an environment (economic and social) that promotes research and innovation. I have no objection to that: many foreign talents have been lured to the US for its high salaries (well, at least higher than in their countries) and generous research stipends.

But can the US claim those inventions as entirely their own making? I am not sure about that... I'd rather call it a product of international collaboration...

[california84]

I don’t think you understand North Korean politics. I feel very sorry for the North Korea People NOT THE Government. North Korea has lied, stolen, stared, and bullied the North Koreans people. I take a person interest in Korea since one of my best friend (who South Korea District Attorney) live and works South Korea.

First, North Korea tried to shot South President in 1960’S. In the 1980 it shot down a South Korea Civilian Airliner, all died. Then it blamed the U.S. that it look like a spy plane that was smaller and much different shape then that of the civilian airliner. In addition, the U.S. show to the U.N that that the North Korea pilots made visual conformation that the plane they were going to shoot down was South Korea Civilian Airliner. Next, the North have had two different spy sub caught by the South in the 1990’s. In addition, North Korea has abducted several Japanese’s National with Japan and aboard.

During the World Cup 2002 the North Korean Navy fire on a South Korean ship in South Korean Waters. The exchange of fire nearly sunk the South Korean ship and killed about 23 South Korean Sailors and injured many. In that same year the U.S. was building a Nuclear power plant that it had promised North Korea under condition that it would abound it nuclear weapon. Instead it had continued its development. At the end of that year North Korea had kick out U.N. inspect and told the U.N. it was developing nuclear weapons.

In 2003 the North Korea government start redeveloping land for farming. They did this by cutting down forest. In doing this they made they made unproductive land that did not produce rice or vegetable, instead they cause erosion, and kill natural recourse. That same year North Korean guards fired across the DMZ wooding two South Korean soldiers.

Finally, in 2004 the North Korean was give large supplies of rice and other foods by the U.S. The U.S. has been the largest supplier of Food and Economic aid to North Korea for the last four years. In 2005 the NHK show how the North Korean government was selling U.S. food aid on the open market. In addition, to using the economic aid for it military. This was in direct violation of the food aid rule that the food and clothes donated were suppose to be direct give without cost to the North Korean People and was suppose to got to the North Korea people not its military.

In short the North Korean Government have bullied, lied, and cheated its people. The North Korean government has nuclear weapon to bully the South Korea and Japan. In 2004 the North Korean test fired a missile very near Japan to send a message that they had missile capable of striking Japan. Finally, North Korean is one of the largest producers of weapon to countries like Libya, Syria, and other terrorist sponsoring nations. North Korea is minuses to South Korea and Asia. It position of Nuclear weapon poses a real threat to Japan more then anyone else. North Korea hatred for Japan goes back hundreds of year. Be afraid, because if North Korea feel desperate and block by economic sanctions it will I believe launch a nuclear missile. People said five month ago “We don’t even know if the North Korea has Nuclear weapons”. Now the government is openly boasting about it large arsenal.

Nuclear weapon are not good thing, but historical countries like the U.S., Russia, France, Israel, UK, and other westernized countries had them as deterrents. Now we are moving into a scary world were countries such as Pakistan, India, China, and North Korea do not possess Nuclear weapons as a deterrent to other countries but as weapon to be used in defensive ways. I pity the people who are starving in North Korea. There government was the North Korea government was secure before nuclear weapon, because of it large million man army. The U.S. Army does not want to attack North Korea, because as one military lead said it would over run Seoul in about 30 minute and take the whole South in a mere week and there was nothing the U.S. military could do. In addition, it strong and historical alien with China who also has million man army and nuclear weapon made it a non- military target for the U.S.. North Korea is not the saint you are making it out to be. Japan in 2003 try to make peace with North Korea instead the North Korea counties to make Nuclear threat, bring up historical feud, instead Japan apologized to North Korea and Japan did in the 2003 conference (this issue is still brought by North Korea Media), and it is still refuse to turn over kidnapped Japanese citizens. There is a Korea Movie call JSA about the North/ South Problem. The main story is fictional, but the accounts they talk about are very real. It does not paint a pretty picture. The South Korean tends to be neutral about the North, but this move does not paint a pretty picture of them. You should also go to the DMZ. I have been there twice. Once again not a pretty picture either. I lived in Seoul for six month not a fun place with the North almost on a monthly doing something to scare the South.

Cali

[Tyler]

Nuclear weapon are not good thing, but historical countries like the U.S., Russia, France, Israel, UK, and other westernized countries had them as deterrents. Now we are moving into a scary world were countries such as Pakistan, India, China, and North Korea do not possess Nuclear weapons as a deterrent to other countries but as weapon to be used in defensive ways.

You're right - nuclear weapons are not good things. But don' t then claim that it's OK if certain countries have them but others don't. On what basis can you claim this? It sounds a little racist, xenophobic, naive or all of the above to claim that only "westernized" countries are capable of possessing them safely but other (asian and middle eastern nations) are not...

By the way, wouldn't you think that nuclear weapons work as deterrents because the country is able to defend itself with them if it's attacked by another nation with them. You know - you hit me and I'll hit you back (mutual annihilation). What do you mean? Are you saying that the newer members of the nuclear club have them only as a means of attacking others, not as a deterrent?

[kurogane]

You're right - nuclear weapons are not good things. But don' t then claim that it's OK if certain countries have them but others don't. On what basis can you claim this? It sounds a little racist, xenophobic, naive or all of the above to claim that only "westernized" countries are capable of possessing them safely but other (asian and middle eastern nations) are not...

By the way, wouldn't you think that nuclear weapons work as deterrents because the country is able to defend itself with them if it's attacked by another nation with them. You know - you hit me and I'll hit you back (mutual annihilation). What do you mean? Are you saying that the newer members of the nuclear club have them only as a means of attacking others, not as a deterrent?

MAD, man, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).
Nice post.

[Tyler]

Americans did invent the following that revolutionized the world;

1) Microchip- Jack Kilby
2) Intergraded Circuit-Jack Kilby and Rober Noyce
3) Air conditioning-Willis Carrier
4) Iron Suspension bridge-Jame Finley
5) Hand held camera-George Eastman
6) Defibrillator-Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhover
7) E-mail-Ray Tomlinson
8) Elevator-Elisha G. Otis
9) Laser- T.H. Maiman
10) Bifocal Glasses: Benjamin Franklin
11) Microwave oven-Percy Spencer
12) Motion Picture-Thomas Edison
13) The assembly line- Henry Ford
14) Pace Maker- Clarence Lillehie, Earl Bakk
15) T.V.-Vladimir Zworykin
16) Electrical Transformers- William Stanley
17) Tractor-Benjamin Holt
18) Typewriter-Christopher Sholes



Not to nitpick and all, but:

3) Mmmm, apparently air-conditioning was invented thousands of years ago in Persia (Iran) although, yes, Carrier did invent the electrical version (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioner).

5) Eastman didn't invent the camera though he did receive a patent for one which used roll film (which was his invention) (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Eastman).

12) Claiming this for just one man is ridiculous. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cinema

14) According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_pacemaker, its history has involved the input of people from Canada, Sweden and Uruguay. The first pacemaker to be successfully implanted in a person was done in Sweden.

15) According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV#History, Vladimir Zworykin was Russian and he did his work with another Russian, Boris Rosing. Rosing died after being sent away by Stalin and Zworkykin escaped, eventually to America. Besides, the cathode ray tube which was used in modern electronic TVs until fairly recently was invented by a German (Karl Ferdinand Braun) though another American (Philo Taylor Farsworth) did indeed make the first electronic TV.

17) According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Holt, he used caterpillar tracks to make some tractors, but he certainly didn't invent the idea of a tractor.

18) According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter, "no one person can be said to have invented the typewriter"...

Anyhoo, the point of all of this is just to say that all inventions necessarily rely upon the sum of shared knowledge that has come before it.

And, yes, at the moment America is providing the money and resources for a lot of innovation to take place which you should be proud of. But so are a lot of other countries at the moment. It's just that America has more money to do so than a lot of them. Not to mention that it's using its cultural and economic hegemony to ensure that products produced there are distributed and protected globally (patent law, anyone?)...

[Tyler]

MAD, man, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).
Nice post.

Ahh, thank you.

Trouble is, when I see MAD I just think, "What, me worry?"

[kurogane]

Ahh, thank you.

Trouble is, when I see MAD I just think, "What, me worry?"


Hee Hee. Fair enough, eh? No point in worrying about that. It's kind of like earthquakes: they're either coming or they're not, but not a damn thing we can do about it.
Well, 'cept vote and take to the streets.

[california84]

It is safe to have first world countries possessing nuclear technology for the most part. Case in point is Pakistan selling nuclear technology to North Korea. China selling nuclear launchers and missiles to North Korea. In addition, North Korea selling submarine to Iran that would make it possible to uses nuclear weapon anywhere in the world. Second and third world countries government are more unstable then first world and more like to see militants government takes over and uses nuclear weapon as an aggressor nation. Country like Pakistan who government have change drastically since it nuclear weapons were acquired. In addition, even first world countries like France are more like to sell it technologies. Limiting the nuclear club to as few members as possible it the key. Stable government safe guarding nuclear technology is the other key. I think you need to remember Nuclear Weapons effect many countries even if only used on one city in one nations.
Cali.

[Kumachan]

It is safe to have first world countries possessing nuclear technology for the most part. It's not safe for *any* country to have nuclear weapons. You would just prefer a 1st world country to have them because there are usually better safeguards where they're concerned.

I personally don't feel that a nuclear arsenal is any good. The only thing it says is that "if you lob a warhead at me, I'll lob a dozen back at you". Problem is, you'll always get people willing to die and to sacrifice all they have in the name of hurting the other guy.

And on the subject of North Korea, they're not really a threat no matter how loudly Kim Jong Il decides to shout. His only card is that he has nuclear capabilites and he is "willing" to use them. But while the man may be a megalomaniac and totally convinced of his right, he's not stupid. He knows that the US could wipe his country off the face of the planet while he'd only be able to give them a black eye (assuming the missile even gets to it's target). He's like a person at a card game, with one card and he's going, "I'm going to play it, no I won't, yes I will, no I won't, I'll play it if you play yours, I promise I won't play it if you leave me alone..."


Limiting the nuclear club to as few members as possible it the key.But which countries and who gets to decide which countries are able to join?

[takenoko]

In addition, even first world countries like France are more like to sell it technologies.
Actually it's the US that's been doing most of the selling. Supplying military hardware and technology to countries like Iraq...

QUOTE: "Perhaps no single policy is more at odds with President Bush's pledge to 'end tyranny in our world' than the United States' role as the world's leading arms exporting nation," said Frida Berrigan
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

QUOTE: [And recently the Bush administration decided to] provide new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan while pledging comparable high-tech military hardware to its rival India as an example of the way US arms sometimes go to both sides in long-brewing conflicts.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

QUOTE: in 2003, the last year for which full information is available, the United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts around the world, including Angola, Chad, Ethiopia, Colombia, Pakistan, Israel and the Philippines. Transfers to those nations through the two largest US arms-sales programs -- foreign military sales and commercial sales -- totaled nearly $1 billion in 2003.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

And it goes on and on.....


You should try to watch a documentary like Hidden Wars Of Desert Storm (2001). You might learn something!
http://www.chomskytorrents.org/TorrentDetails.php?TorrentID=93

[Tyler]

Actually it's the US that's been doing most of the selling. Supplying military hardware and technology to countries like Iraq...

QUOTE: "Perhaps no single policy is more at odds with President Bush's pledge to 'end tyranny in our world' than the United States' role as the world's leading arms exporting nation," said Frida Berrigan
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

QUOTE: [And recently the Bush administration decided to] provide new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan while pledging comparable high-tech military hardware to its rival India as an example of the way US arms sometimes go to both sides in long-brewing conflicts.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

QUOTE: in 2003, the last year for which full information is available, the United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts around the world, including Angola, Chad, Ethiopia, Colombia, Pakistan, Israel and the Philippines. Transfers to those nations through the two largest US arms-sales programs -- foreign military sales and commercial sales -- totaled nearly $1 billion in 2003.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-074226-9626r.htm

And it goes on and on.....


You should try to watch a documentary like Hidden Wars Of Desert Storm (2001). You might learn something!
http://www.chomskytorrents.org/DownloadTorrent.php?TorrentID=93

Thanks for the info, takenoko... I always recall the movie Three Kings when I think about the relationship between America and Iraq...

There you go, cali, something else that can fill you with American pride - your nation is the foremost supplier of weapons of mass destruction. Not only that, but your leaders can hypocritically be waging war in the name of removing such weapons. That is pretty impressive, huh!

[Tyler]

Second and third world countries government are more unstable then first world and more like to see militants government takes over and uses nuclear weapon as an aggressor nation. Country like Pakistan who government have change drastically since it nuclear weapons were acquired. In addition, even first world countries like France are more like to sell it technologies. Limiting the nuclear club to as few members as possible it the key. Stable government safe guarding nuclear technology is the other key. I think you need to remember Nuclear Weapons effect many countries even if only used on one city in one nations.
Cali.

Mmm... so you're saying that first world nations are inherently more stable than second or third world nations, and that's why it's dangerous for the latter to gain nuclear weapons?

Some things to consider.

The amount of resources and infrastructure needed to fund the development of nuclear weapons is quite immense. You're not going to be seeing those nations who are racked by instability building nuclear weapons simply because they don't have the ability to do so. Are you seriously suggesting that in between grabbing more power and generally screwing his country Mugabe has found the time and resources to plan nuclear war? Dictators are happy with maintaining power within their nation, they don't need or desire world domination...

So, which nations do you mean when you say that second and third world nations could be overtaken by military forces intent on attacking others? China? The communists seem to be evolving quite nicely onto the world stage - unlikely there. Israel? Hah - it's been a military state since its inception tilted firmly towards American interests attacking those it wants... India? though they have religious troubles, their style of democracy has been functioning well enough for a while now - again unlikely to occur there.

As for Pakistan, yes there was a military coup but, lo and behold, the good General (sorry, President) Pervez Musharraf has been one of the strongest allies of America. No problem there then...

As for North Korea, as Kumachan rightly pointed out, nuclear weapons are just a playing card. And remember, one reason they are using it is because of their fear of the good ol' U.S. who, by the way, pulled out of an agreement that had been made with the North Koreans that would have provided them with nuclear power to provide energy for their people.

So, which nation should we be worried about, if any? Which is the only nation to use nuclear weapons on another? America. Which nation came close to doing so again? America (the Cuban Missile Crisis). Which nation has its "Defense Secretary want[ing] "bunker buster" nuclear bombs because "it is unwise for there to be anything that's beyond the reach of [its] power"? (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0526-25.htm) America. Which nation has the largest and most potent nuclear capability? America.

But don't worry, since America is the good guy and it'll protect us from all of those bad guys... right?

The only reason nations are scrambling to create nuclear weapons if they can is because of a perceived need of defence against those that already have them. It's also a question of esteem too, of course - for a nation to be considered a great power they need to have them. I really can't see how you can possibly say that it's alright for certain nations to have them but not others.

The question of "stability" is a red herring IMO...

[kimonolover]

Good going Tyler! I love the conclusion you made there about the villian and abusing nuclear weapons.

[mcalpine]

Good data ! Keep it coming.

[derrick_odd]

America is akin to a police state in a lot of ways (laws against everything, and severe penalties for even minor offences).
It has far too many fundamentalist christians who want to tell everyone else how to live their lives. Far too much bloody moralising.
It has a rather unintelligent man as president.

The police state comment is interesting. Never heard that one before. I agree that the laws for minor offences (especially possession) are ricockulous. But a police state? That's a loaded phrase.

The fundamentalist christian thing I take issue with. The problem is not that are too many fundamentalist christians. The problem is that a few major news networks and corporations cater to them. America has always had religious quacks. But the phenomenon of the media and corporate America brown nosing to them is a relatively new phenomenon, in its current extreme, anyways. When talking to people here, Japanese and non-Japanese, I always run into two things. One is that they don't realize how much the current media is controlled by the governement, the chiristian right, and corporations. Two is that they don't seem to want to acknowledge that there are gradations of religious whack-assery here. Most extremists are comparatively small in number. This is still true for America. It's just that they have a crap load of money and a ton of media coverage.

The politics in America right now are insane. But the people aren't. Even the people who voted for Bush have vaid reasons for doing so, though I definitely don't agree with them.

And Bush ain't stupid. You don't destroy a 2 trillion dollar projected economic surplus that took 8 years to build in about two years and then get caught red handed lying to the public about reasons to go to war and then get freakin' reelected if you're stupid.

[paulh]

I We invented the plane, the CD player, DVD, TV, found the cure for Polo, invent the modern Trauma system/ER system, the light bulb, the radio, computer, internet, and countless other inventions. li

Polo is a sport with about twenty guys on horses chasing a little white ball around a field. Must be cure somewhere for men wanting to play hockey on horseback.

[stillnosheep]

Not 20 guys Paul. Though a cure for quite so many guys on little ponies chasing the ball at one time would be redundant.

[stillnosheep]

ps Americans invented neither TV, nor radio, nor the computer; but what's accuracy when the subject is patriotic nonsense eh?

[colorlessgreen]

Interestingly enough I'm doing a research paper on American citizens as a "negative reference nationality" amongst foreign groups in Japan.


I don’t think national pride is the issue. I think the real issue is representation. For myself, and most all Americans, the nation represents more than just a government, economy, etc.. It represents our families, our native cultures, our friends, etc.. So for many, having to deal with daily attacks on one's nationality oftentimes manifests feelings of resentment due to our divergent representations of this place.

When I am attacked solely on the basis of my nationality I have a pretty common response. "I'm sorry you feel so negatively about a diverse nation of nearly 300 million people. But I'm Scott, I'm an individual, please treat me as one."

[DenshaDeGO]

I'm proud to be American, too. I like that I'm from the country that created Atari, Apple Computer, Levi's, Coke, McDonald's and other cool stuff like that (I'm not proud of "my" government though.) I'm not about to run around with an American flag on my car/bag/shopping carriage/whatever; I don't think that America "kicks ___" or anything.

What I find endlessly annoying is other people, specifically the British & Canadians, ragging on the U.S. while I'm around. Especially when I'm around. I cannot count how many times I've had some c*** s***** up in my face telling me how America sucks and that all Americans are retards and on and on. America-bashing seems to be the "in" thing to do over here. I had some prick tell me once: "dude it's not your fault you're American." WTF is all that about.

I'm over here working hard and making a buck like everyone else, I don't wanna hear another drunk eikaiwa teacher from Vancouver giving me his devastatingly original opinion on America and I don't give two turds if it's 'SPELT' or 'SPELLED' or f-ing WHATEVER. I don't run around saying 'CANADA SUCKS' or 'ENGLAND IS RETARDED'; I don't bother other people and I expect the same treatment in return.

My $0.02

[kurogane]

I'm proud to be American, too. I like that I'm from the country that created Atari, Apple Computer, Levi's, Coke, McDonald's and other cool stuff like that
What I find endlessly annoying is other people, specifically the British & Canadians, ragging on the U.S. while I'm around. Especially when I'm around. I cannot count how many times I've had some c*** s***** up in my face telling me how America sucks and that all Americans are retards and on and on. America-bashing seems to be the "in" thing to do over here. I had some prick tell me once: "dude it's not your fault you're American." WTF is all that about.

I'm over here working hard and making a buck like everyone else, I don't wanna hear another drunk eikaiwa teacher from Vancouver giving me his devastatingly original opinion on America and I don't give two turds if it's 'SPELT' or 'SPELLED' or f-ing WHATEVER. I don't run around saying 'CANADA SUCKS' or 'ENGLAND IS RETARDED'; I don't bother other people and I expect the same treatment in return.

My $0.02


Is that $0.02 in real money, or American?
:p

Nice post, man. I think what we need to do is get the Good Ones, like youze guyz here, to Stop Being Ashamed, and get those Overfed, Overfighting, and Over There Fat, Stoopid Looser Mrkans at home to START Being Ashamed. Even if it is only of looking like a bloat of retarded hippos in Bermuda shorts.

PS Remember, Canada does suck, and English are retarded, but the problem is that America suffers from both those maladies at once. It's the double whammy that makes you guys such an easy target.

[stillnosheep]

Hey! You! Canuck!

You sayin England don't suck or summat!

[DenshaDeGO]

Is that $0.02 in real money, or American? Don't start ...


... get those Overfed, Overfighting, and Over There Fat, Stoopid Looser Mrkans at home to START Being Ashamed. Even if it is only of looking like a bloat of retarded hippos in Bermuda shorts.

And I was about ready to turn in for the night ... not with images of Bermuda shorts going through my head. Thanks a lot :(


PS Remember, Canada does suck, and English are retarded, but the problem is that America suffers from both those maladies at once. It's the double whammy that makes you guys such an easy target.

I'm not going to say anything about Canada.

Actually, I will: I had a nice time when I was there over 10 years ago. I went to New Brunswick, Halifax, PEI and some place else (forgot the name.)

I won't say anything about England then.

I know what you mean about fat & retarded people. Dear world, just remember that NOT EVERYONE VOTED FOR WHO IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW. It was 50/50 and I proudly hail from a Blue State. What's even better is that my state is hated by dubya. Any state (hell anyONE) that he hates is okay in my book :D

[godspeed]

I have not read all the post, and nor will I, but I will say, I have been to a lot of countries, and at first I was like, America sucks, we are so damn proud, selfish, and racist. But now that I have been to more and more places, you learn some things, people treat you good b/c you have money, or think you have money. They don’t really respect or care about you as much as you thought they did at first. Also, anyone who says America is a racist country needs to think again, America is the only place where you can look like anyone from any country in the world and still be thought of as a person of that country. After living in Japan, that respect is something I have come to miss very much, my wife, Japanese, can walk into any store in America, and be treated just like everyone else, where I walk into a store in Japan and they will treat me the way they want to because, one they think I cant understand them, and second, its ok to hate me b/c I am a gaijin. I am proud to be American, and I will say that most Americans know why we are in Iraq, oil. But we are not perfect and neither is any other country. Every country has problems, just like every person. Life without problems would be no life at all. Overcoming them is what makes life.
Shaun

[Ignacio T. Rileo]

well,

there may not be reasons for not being proud to be american. and there may not be reasons to hate americans. but what is certain is that there are many people who in fact entertain a really negative opinion about los pinches gringos.

i count myself among them sometimes. i mean i dont really hate them, but many disgraces that we see, at least in mexico, are very easily explained by an idea of an evil usa. so i rage like everyone else and then wonder about what jack bauer is going to do to avoid evil mexicans from aquiring a nuke.

is some other evil diverting our attentions to americanos?

there are those who say: "you have to accept the good with the bad that america brings to your lives". but how about giving some of the good with all the bad they impose on us?

o follamos todos o ahogamos a la puta

[godspeed]

every country has done bad, is doing bad things and covering them up, you name your country and im sure someone can name something bad that they are doing or have done recently. everyone can't play like their country is so innocent.
Shaun

[JayJay]

every country has done bad, is doing bad things and covering them up, you name your country and im sure someone can name something bad that they are doing or have done recently. everyone can't play like their country is so innocent.
Shaun

The Federated States of Micronesia. :D :D

Sorry, I just had too. I do agree though, even New Zealand, yes, New Zealand has a little blood on its hands.

[palmtree]

Cali- I feel compelled to point out(rather wearily) that Americans who speak out against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan do so because they are against these wars, not becuase they are "ashamed to be American", "enemies of freedom", "Communists", etc. If it makes you feel any better, its just talk, none of them are actually going to do anything about it.
Kurogane- Americans aren`t ignorant, they just get called on their Bullsh)t more often than other whit.. err... Western people do. The stuff that French companies like Suez-Liannaise have been doing in South Africa, Guinea, Venezuela, etc. in regard to privatizing water, electricity and agriculture in the past few decades cause far more real damage to people than the war in Iraq has(and England is running close behind France in terms of exploiting third world countries), but I have yet to meet any citizen of France or of Her Majesty`s KIngdom (that would be you, K, if I have my terminology right) that has owned up to their part in any of these atrocities. Maybe if you expect better from people like Cali and Shaun, you should set a better example yourself?
No offense to either poster, I like hearing what other people have to say, hope its mutual. Ciao.

[scotty7]

what is the common denominator here ? - government - like a corporation, focussed on it's own survival first and foremost...

there are kents and divvies everywhere... and most places I've been to have their good and bad points except for the Netherlands, which is mostly bad, heehee... don't get me started... tho they do serve a decent cup of coffee

[scotty7]

It's Britain or the UK, by the way, not England

[palmtree]

It's Britain or the UK, by the way, not England
errr.. I did not know this. why is it so?

YOU SAID THIS-
what is the common denominator here ? - government - like a corporation, focussed on it's own survival first and foremost...

there are kents and divvies everywhere..."END>

I don`t know what a divvie is... Kent is a podunk town in Washington, U.S.A. Horrid.
I guess the common denominator is ultimately the corporations, although the spoils did kind of go to those governments still standing after WWII(The U.S., France and The U.K.) while the empires of Japan and Germany were largely disbanded and/or split up by the victors.
Really, just google anything about privatization/water/IMF/world bank/africa//Iraq or anything recent by Naomi Klein/Iraq- any of those combinations will conjure up good stuff, I`m sure. Its really all about the "transition" from colonization to what-ever-they-call-it-now that sounds better than colonization.
The topic of this thread however was about ashamed Americans and I will reiterate that i have known literally thousands of Americans who have had every different opinion under the sun about America and American foreign policy and none of these people has ever described themselves as being "ashamed to be American". I just don`t think such a group of people really exists. I guess i could be wrong.




But Idoubt it.

[scotty7]

divvy = stoopid person

besides which being "ashamed" of one's nationality serves no useful purpose - it's about as useful as feeling guilty

now if we all stopped paying our taxes because we were pissed off with our respective governments, we might achieve sth