Katrina: Bushes disgrace

[JayJay]

Ive been watching the news btu I had to turn it off.

Honestly the situation is WORSE than India or Sir Lanka during the Tsunami and they're thrid world countries.

The US is the richest country in the world and people are dying everyday from disease and stavation. Its a disgrace.

How you think Bush/the US is handling the disaster?

[richard]

I must start by saying that I do not like W. Having said that, I gotta' agree with Bill Clinton who basically said that we cannot blame W. for the effects of the hurricane and the aftermath.

Now also having said that, W. should have gotten his arse out of his ranch like right away and showed support and sympathy for the people who have been left in the lurch, namely those in the superdome and those abandoned and those suffering from lack of food or water or normal amenities. In this case W., I believe, has shown a serious lack of conscience and compassion for others. By showing his compassion with the suffering people, he could have at least kept his head above water and this would have resulted in fending off some of the criticism that he is now getting. But he didn't and now he will suffer for it - so it just shows what kind of an individual he is.........
For what it's worth.

[mcalpine]

I think what needs to be understood here is that people really want to do something to help BUT because of the lack of leadership and organization nobody knows exactly how they can help besides donating to Red Cross. Blaming G.W. is not going to fix the problem.

[JayJay]

Yeah you're both right, blaiming Bush is too easy and not fair (I still dont like him though).

But there still is something terribly wrong with the whole situation.

If I see Red Cross on teh streets (I dont donate threw the net) I will be donating something, even if to stoke my ego and help me feel better even if it does jack.

I have family in Florida too. Thank God it missed them.

[trip_hop]

"W" and his war committee did divert the budget from the Army Corps of Engineers in Louisiana to his Baghdad battles, so the Army, although they had been warning of the consequences,l they were unable to even provide basic maintenance to the levees.

I personally would not give to the Red Cross, esp to the American Red Cross - they have a history of witholding donations, and banking the funds instead of releasing them to the needy in a timely manner. This is not to say that the vast majority of Red Cross workers are not decent people who simply want to help those in need. Just search the net for those reports - 9/11, SF earthquake 1989, Oklahoma 1995 and Red River in 1997. I prefer to donate to "Medecin san Frontieres.

Unfortunately much of the rest of the world looks at the US now, and thinks - "Payback Time!"

[foxy49]

Bush is known to be VERY generous when it comes to war but very tight when it comes to helping the suffering people.We've seem him looking the other way in few other times. There are many people who are stranded at the superdome w/o food and water for days(mostly poor people)........dead bodies untouched (and some are seen floating around). I hope people (from the red states) finally see his real side, the real W.......though it's too late..........foxy49

[cumboto]

Unfortunetly, the color of the people left in New Orleans is what makes the slow reply. If it was Florida where his brother is, funds would have flown in (or out...). The people that could get out did so. Those left are the bottom line, and those are the ones always stuck with the benefits of the "land of free"

[aha yes]

Not to blame Bush for actually creating the hurricane (unless there's some credence to the theory that storms are fiercer due to climate change, in which Bush & Co. have been obstinant contributors), his policies are directly related to the failure to prevent the flooding and deal with its aftermath more efficiently. As trip_hop said the Corps of Engineers was underfunded, so the levees weren't well maintained. Furthermore, the last president's land reclamation plan (similar to the Everglades project), which would help the region be able to naturally absorb flooding, has been slashed and sidelined in Congress under Bush. FEMA, who used to draft organizational plans and drill for this kind of thing, have been left to rot in a Homeland Security focused narrowly on "terrorism." And in fact 40% of Mississippi's and Louisiana's Nat. Guard are in Iraq (Herald Tribune) -- reckon those extra bodies could have made it possible to search for survivors and stop looters at the same time? I'd say there's still room to criticize the Chief.

Thing is, this crisis will probably help W when he really needs it, coz the only people likely to fault him are the ones who already saw through him anyway. The rest will rally round.

"Payback Time!" -- Uh-huh, I can hear it already, for 3 yrs it's been Iraqis without food, water, housing, electricity and security, now it's a few thousand of Uncle Sam's own...must be the Will of Allah.

[Tyler]

I gotta' agree with Bill Clinton who basically said that we cannot blame W. for the effects of the hurricane and the aftermath.

Bush didn't cause the hurricane to hit New Orleans. But he sure as hell had a hand in its consequent effects on the city.

They knew for years that if a hurricane were to hit New Orleans the consequences would be horrific. And they had plenty of advanced warning that this one was coming. This is where state government should share in some of the blame. The Governor ordered a mandatory evacuation order. Did they bother assisting those without the resources (poor, predominately black people) or ability (the sick and infirm) to leave the city and find safe accomodation? Hell no. They herded those that could make it there into a sports stadium and left them to fend to themselves. There have been at least two rapes (one of a child), bashings, murders and a suicide that have been reported from within the stadium. F'ing brilliant. Those that couldn't get out of their beds or leave their homes were left there.

Oh yeah. When the levees broke, Bush helpfully urged people in New Orleans to leave the city. How were those people trapped in the Superdome, on their rooftops or in their beds supposed to do that, exactly? Moron. The next day he considered returning to Washington (he was at his ranch in Texas, of course). Meanwhile people were dying in the intensive care wards of the hospitals because they didn't have the necessary equipment to maintain power. If there were images of thousands of affluent (voting) white people in such turmoil do you think that Bush would have taken so long to get his ___ back to the White House? Of course not. But of course that was never going to happen anyway because they were the ones who had the means to escape in the first place.

As trip_hop has already mentioned, G.W. had slashed the budget for the Army Corps to maintain the levees. Why was this budget slashed? To fund their wars overseas of course. The White House has sent in the National Guard to assist. The trouble is, they only have about half the equipment and around 60% of their troops because the balance of these resources has been sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. This means that five days after the hurricane struck, there are people dying in the streets from sickness, exhaustion and violence. Women are being raped, people are being shot to death and corpses are rotting in the street. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has been severely criticised for their crap response, but again this agency has been starved of their funds and experienced personnal have left under Bush.

This is where perhaps the Governor and the state government can be let off the hook somewhat. The troops and equipment needed to keep people alive simply were not available. On the other hand, it was the state of Louisiana who volunteered for these resources to be sent to Iraq in the "war on terror". Then again, this phony "war" is a construct of the neo-conservatives in the Bush administration...

They have said that they will dip into their strategic reserves of crude oil because of what the hurricane has done to the oil producing capabilities of America. Gas prices are already going up and some states will be rationing supplies. Hopefully once middle class (white) America gets hit in the hip pocket they will actually feel compelled to vote the idiot out of office. Or perhaps when the rich guys rock back up to where their estates used to be they will finally realise the importance of goverment agencies and the costs of an administration intent on destroying any semblence of a caring or responsible federal government.

[takai]

I've seen seen CNN video about Katrina: to sum up:

a.) I am happy to live in Japan
b.) that town seemed Africa, rather than US...is US really the richest country ???
c.) why cannot Americans behave? what is that ____ with 'looters will be shot', and anarchy reigning over the city??? are all neanthertalers???
d.) why are people there so lazy, uncooperative and aggresive? such a contrast with the behavior of Japanese when an earthquake happens...
e.) I dunno care about republicand nor democrats. I am German. But the speech of Bush, was his weakest speech for the last 6 years...he didn't display security, such a contrast with 9 11...
f.) did I say that I am happy to live in Japan..????

[takai]

can some American enlighten me?

I am German, and saw the CNN video. 99% of the people were black...are 99% of citizens in that town black, or was this a media trick to emphasize the tragedy??

thanks,

TAKAI

[foxy49]

Not to blame W for the hurricane?. I blame him for EVERYTHING!!.
Only 3 more dreadfull years guys......ONLY 3 more long and devastating f__ing years!!!! foxy49

[User Name Deleted]

A lot of people will take this as another opportunity to take potshots at the U.S.

I won't be doing so, but I must admit how shocked I was as to how unprepared America was for a disaster of this nature.

I hope too, but I doubt it will happen, that events in New Orleans help to convince Americans how ludicrous their gun laws are.

From the sounds of it, it was the carless poor who have copped the worst of this. As always America isn't a great place to be poor.

[tangerine]

Unfortunetly, the color of the people left in New Orleans is what makes the slow reply. If it was Florida where his brother is, funds would have flown in (or out...). The people that could get out did so. Those left are the bottom line, and those are the ones always stuck with the benefits of the "land of free"

In the presidents eyes, money dont buy freedom but the colour of your skin does

[trip_hop]

takai - last census indicated 70% of the population to be of African-American descent, but they were the ones who could not afford to leave, hence the skewed image.

[mcalpine]

I have alot of mixed feelings about the images scewed across the Television screen. Looking at African Americans riot and loot and plunder the city is a direct result of being uneducated and desparate ! And when religious leaders like Jesse Jackson acts the same way by pointing his fingers and blaming organizations like Fema and GW it makes Black Americans look even more savage and stupid. What he should be doing is going down there to organize the masses; things, like food,shelter and medicine in those grief stricken ghetto's. The NAACP should close up their offices and head down there with their own relief effort instead of relying 100% on the government for everything.
African Americans have traditionally had a " you owe me " mentality since slavery days and it hasn't gotten any better ! It's embarrasing to sit here and look at them on T.V.

On other hand, organizations like Fema and the Red Cross really do want to help but they consider the safety and well being more important at the moment( rightfully so if you ask me). If I were in charge I would be doing the same thing basically. I would air drop food, patch up the levee's immediately and send emergency convoys to pick up the sick and dying ONLY while awaiting further relief efforts.

[eku]

oh please.... a government that can afford to bomb an already backward nation back into the stone ages (to quote your great leader) surely can spend a little on quick and efficient help for people in its own land.

the looting and rioting is only due to the slow reaction of the government to supply aid and security after a disaster of biblical proportions.

the lack of education and desperation that you mention is also the fault of the government... who do you think allocates the funds?

[donpaulo]

yeah a few points.

One New Orleans is basically under sea level and that ANY levee system will break given time and enough force.

Two the US army corps of engineers have altered the flow of the Mississippi river to such a degree that it no longer flows in a natural way. In many ways a river is like a snake with its head held down, the tail whipping around as it seeks freedom. This is the natural river as it changes its exit ways in the gulf. Current policy has the river staying within its same banks for decades. There will be a time to pay the piper on this issue too, but its being lost in the storm problem.

Three lawlessness has as much to do with poor public policy as it does with desperation. It also has to do with young people and what they think they can "get away with" without consequences. The rodney king riots in LA is a good example of this or the number of dead every time the Chicago Bulls won a champsionship.

Four the avenues of egress are limited, the airport is un-usable, the power is out and the city did a poor job of preparing for the worst. It shows that the mayor, who is doing a fine job of finger pointing, didn't do his job which is to protect and serve the people of his city. Yes the city needs help, but in an emergency the true leaders create calm not panic. As much as I dislike Guliani, he was calm and collected when staring at 3000 dead people and the collapsed trade centers (not to mention NY's best fire rescue teams dead) NY wasn't pointing the finger, although mr bush sure seems to have taken advantage of it with his "they will hear from all of us" speech. I wonder if Bin Laden has heard from him yet ?

Could Bush have done a better job of it ? certainly. Hopefully he learns from his mistake. Perhaps because many of the armed forces who could be providing help are over in Iraq making the world safe... err whatever.

For those who think Japan is better, I humbly suggest you see a professional therapist as when the big one hits you will become unhinged and perhaps will go crazy. Look no farther than the Kobe Quake, or the Niigata rumbler. The response from the government was lacking with people living in tents in the winter time. Despite living a danger zone the goverment services of japan still have alot to learn.

As far as black people on the video goes, don't confuse the issue. The poorest New Orleans folks on average are black and they also live in the areas worst hit by the flooding. Thus they didn't have the opportunity to leave town, nor do they have a place to sleep or seek shelter. Thus they are homeless and becoming more and more desperate for food and water. Crimes by white people significantly outnumber crimes by blacks, its just that white crimes are often less visible.

and finally jesse jackson is an idiot, but at least he doesn't call for the kiling of Venezuela's president. WHICH the 700 club in all its conservative aura did. I don't see Pat Robertson doing much more for new orleans than jessie is.

[foxy49]

I have alot of mixed feelings about the images scewed across the Television screen. Looking at African Americans riot and loot and plunder the city is a direct result of being uneducated and desparate ! And when religious leaders like Jesse Jackson acts the same way by pointing his fingers and blaming organizations like Fema and GW it makes Black Americans look even more savage and stupid. What he should be doing is going down there to organize the masses; things, like food,shelter and medicine in those grief stricken ghetto's. The NAACP should close up their offices and head down there with their own relief effort instead of relying 100% on the government for everything.
African Americans have traditionally had a " you owe me " mentality since slavery days and it hasn't gotten any better ! It's embarrasing to sit here and look at them on T.V.

On other hand, organizations like Fema and the Red Cross really do want to help but they consider the safety and well being more important at the moment( rightfully so if you ask me). If I were in charge I would be doing the same thing basically. I would air drop food, patch up the levee's immediately and send emergency convoys to pick up the sick and dying ONLY while awaiting further relief efforts.

Look Mr.Mac,just imagine the place is like an island with 10,000 people stranded under the scorching sun. W/o food, clean water, electricity, medical supply, telephone. Dead bodies decomposing, food rotting, trash and human waste everywhere, and in the water there are alligators, poisonous snakes.....it's been going on for a week. People are desparate for LIFE!! and no help available........I would lose my mind and you would too. People do the most bizzar things when they are desparate for life.And this is happening in the middle of the most advanced nation in the world. foxy49

[donpaulo]

the ny times has an interview with the mayor of new orleans going ballistic !
check it out

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/20050902_NAGIN_AUDIO.html

or failing that

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/national/nationalspecial/03storm.html?hp&ex=1125720000&en=698d0702ad8b46ac&ei=5094&partner=homepage

or the main page

http://www.nytimes.com/

great coverage !
dp

[JayJay]

Man, the Mayor is pissed! I've never heard a politian go off like that. Completely understandable though.

A the end when he starts crying is really moving too. Maybe it gives us a little insight into how people on the ground feel.

Thanks DonPaulo.

ps, can't the neighboring states help? Texas isn' that far away and I'm sure they have a lot of resources.

I heard choppers are getting shot at too, on BBC. Its like a warzone. BBC has much better coverage I feel than CNN. CNN seems to be trying to sugarcoat it. BBC's footage is shocking.

[Branson]

I am really looking forward to getting down there and seeing the devastation

Don’t forget the pop corn you fcuking lunatic!

[User Name Deleted]

I heard choppers are getting shot at too, on BBC. Its like a warzone. BBC has much better coverage I feel than CNN. CNN seems to be trying to sugarcoat it. BBC's footage is shocking.

BBC is always more objective than CNN, and has more scope to actually report what is happening than CNN due to the greater journalistic freedom offered in the U.K.
Can CNN really report like the BBC without being described as 'unpatriotic', or 'un-American'? I have my doubts.

[mcalpine]

We need to send in a Ranger batallion tonight and take out all of the looters and miscreants who are taking advantage of the situation !

[paulh]

We need to send in a Ranger batallion tonight and take out all of the looters and miscreants who are taking advantage of the situation !


Bransons ready and waiting with Curry Rangers. Lots of hungry people in New Orleans right now.

[eku]

BBC is always more objective than CNN, and has more scope to actually report what is happening than CNN due to the greater journalistic freedom offered in the U.K.
Can CNN really report like the BBC without being described as 'unpatriotic', or 'un-American'? I have my doubts.
i often wonder what happened to the land of the free bit

[donpaulo]

A battalion much less a regiment wouldn't do much to limit this. This is about a failure to delegate, failure to respond and now a failure to provide

You secure the airport, then the hospitals and move out from there. Looters are a problem but deal with those that need help. The resoures spent on sending fighting men in to shoot looters is better spent on doctors, medication and triage.

maybe pat robertson has something to say about venezuela's president offering a million dollars in aid...

[donpaulo]

Oh I wanted to add that CNN is pretty much of a joke afaik. Their "coverage" smacks of poor grammar, use of slang and a startling lack of facts. CNN shines when there is need for on the spot LIVE coverage, not when there is hard news being made in the aftermath. Ted Turner was more about providing newstainment rather than hard news "content".

One of the bigger networks is going to provide far better coverage. Or the new york times which is clearly in a class by itself.

The BBC is an excellent source of info and I usually use both NYT and BBC as my first two sources...

[JayJay]

Its amazing.

On other forums some conservaitve pro-Bush Americans are now trying to blame the rest of the world and the UN for the disaster and lack of aid.

The fact is Canada, NZ, Australia, UK, the EU, even Japan have troops and aid as well as funds standing by, but Bush says he doesnt want them!

For f*&ks sakes, don't deny help when people need it so much and then turn around and say the rest of the isn't doing enough.

Amazing. :mad:

[JayJay]

Hugo Chavez has offered assitance. And Castro. How embrassing.

[User Name Deleted]

i often wonder what happened to the land of the free bit

Land of the free? Well, America is far from being North Korea, or communist China, but it's always seemed to me to be less free than my own country. Only an impression, of course, but since September 11th, things have changed in the U.S.

[User Name Deleted]

Its amazing.

On other forums some conservaitve pro-Bush Americans are now trying to blame the rest of the world and the UN for the disaster and lack of aid.

The fact is Canada, NZ, Australia, UK, the EU, even Japan have troops and aid as well as funds standing by, but Bush says he doesnt want them!

For f*&ks sakes, don't deny help when people need it so much and then turn around and say the rest of the isn't doing enough.

Amazing. :mad:

Reminds me of the Russians and their submarines. After the Kursk debacle, where the Russians were too proud to ask for help, they soon learned their lesson, and called out for help from other countries the next time it happened.

Hopefully next time the U.S will come to this same realisation that sometimes you do need to cry out for a helping hand from others.

[Branson]

Bransons ready and waiting with Curry Rangers. Lots of hungry people in New Orleans right now.

Thank you for the plug Mr H! Your cheque has been signed and delivered to your guest book.

http://au.geocities.yahoo.com/gb/sign?member=phackshaw2003

[takai]

Thank you for the plug Mr H! Your cheque has been signed and delivered to your guest book.

http://au.geocities.yahoo.com/gb/sign?member=phackshaw2003

slow Sunday afternoon at idiotsinjapan.com ?

[takai]

*) why does that Mayor speaks in ebonics ("I have tried everything, MAN...."I am not a drugaddict") and insult people: "they (the government high officials) should put their ___ in a plane, and fly here"... can't he just shut up, work hard, and get his job done???

*) why is there a city with 70% of the population blacks, and 30% unemployment rate? no middle class? no integration?


*) why is there still so much hate between blacks and whites??

Katrina, the picture of America in a glance: ten of thousands of overweight, aggressive, uneducated, unemployed guys living a miserable live with no prospects, morals, and meaning....in contrast with...the SWOT teams, and military elite that has been sent there with sophisticated machines, to control the angry folk...

kind of reminds me of University of Yale, when you walk just 5 minutes of the campus, you have to deal with a city that has the highest aids/drugaddict rate in western countries...such contrast...

how would the founding fathers, the pioneers of America, have dealt with the disaster...?? I think differently, than both the citizens of New Orleans, its mayor, and the Bush Administration...the social capital, that one made America great, is clearly eroding...

TAKAI

[takai]

Hopefully next time the U.S will come to this same realisation that sometimes you do need to cry out for a helping hand from others.

mate,

it was made official, that U.S. will ask Bruessels (headquarters of European Union) for humanitarian help for the first time in American history...

いつも　友達、

高

[donpaulo]

just for the record the founding fathers probably wouldn't have done much. Many of them preferred the articles of confederation to the constitution and when one state fell on its face, the others often enjoyed seeing it. In fact there were a few "mini" wars fought over territory between states.

The mayor might have poor grammar but he is da mayor of an international city which is more than you or I will ever be. Ebonics is passe.

The facts are that only the elderly, the poor and the stupid stayed in the big easy. Anyone with even mild intelligence left town, so what you are watching on TV is NOT a true example of a N.O. resident.

Hungry people often do crazy things. Desperate people also resort to acts of the insane. To stay alive many are doing what they have to in order to survive. The guns might make for good tv news but the burning fires and the inability of the fire department to put them out is much more telling than a bit of looting. Growing up in NYC I can tell you that manhattan had its own fireboats capable of putting out fires on boats and along the shore. Where are those boats in the big easy ?

[JayJay]

The mayor might have poor grammar but he is da mayor of an international city which is more than you or I will ever be. Ebonics is passe.



Thats right. And I dont think its fair to judge the mayor of NO on that audio. He was clearly very angry, very upset and I'm sure grammar was the last thing on his mind. Also his grammar is no worse than old W.

I dont care what anyone says about him any way. After that rant and all hes been trying to do to help his poeple, he has my upmost respect, grammar or no.

[takai]

just for the record the founding fathers probably wouldn't have done much. Many of them preferred the articles of confederation to the constitution and when one state fell on its face, the others often enjoyed seeing it. In fact there were a few "mini" wars fought over territory between states.

The mayor might have poor grammar but he is da mayor of an international city which is more than you or I will ever be. Ebonics is passe.

The facts are that only the elderly, the poor and the stupid stayed in the big easy. Anyone with even mild intelligence left town, so what you are watching on TV is NOT a true example of a N.O. resident.

Hungry people often do crazy things. Desperate people also resort to acts of the insane. To stay alive many are doing what they have to in order to survive. The guns might make for good tv news but the burning fires and the inability of the fire department to put them out is much more telling than a bit of looting. Growing up in NYC I can tell you that manhattan had its own fireboats capable of putting out fires on boats and along the shore. Where are those boats in the big easy ?

just for the record, 150 million americans might think differently than you regarding the policy of the founding fathers...history is always impregnated with judgemental opinions...

how do you value an individual?? is an engineer, academic, athlete, accountant, business owner, mother of 4 children LESS worth than the mayor of a major American city?? Inquiring minds want to know...

ebonics displays the deep racial problems in U.S...., knowing the color of a person by just how he speaks is a great indicator of the problems of integration in the US...a sad wake-up call for those who idolatrize the melting-pot policy of the States...

hungry guys don't shoot at helicopters, rape women, and steal packs of beer and whiskey, vandalize the city,etc.. dude...those guys I saw were all overweight, the medium weight must have been 150 kg...how much of the vandalism was due to starving stomachs??? 3% perhaps???

[scotty7]

watch Bush and Greenspan blame the coming recession on Katrina...

[sosa]

hungry guys don't shoot at helicopters, rape women, and steal packs of beer and whiskey, vandalize the city,etc.. dude...those guys I saw were all overweight, the medium weight must have been 150 kg...how much of the vandalism was due to starving stomachs??? 3% perhaps???

The guys you saw - as in you saw them with your own eyes because you are in New Orleasn or as in you saw in a 10 second clip on TV and now you are suddenly an expert on the motivations and make up of the people looting New Orleans? Which is it?

I've just been watching it on TV myself, and while unlike you I don't feel qualified to quote exact figures, it seems pretty safe to say that when you've got thousands of stranded people who haven't had food or water for days then probably feeding their dying children might rank higher as a motivation than just stealing for its own sake. I highly doubt that 97% of the looting is people raping, stealing whiskey and vandalizing property as you rather insultingly imply.

[aha yes]

i often wonder what happened to the land of the free bit
The land of the free bit is a grand marketing strategy. Just ask the slaves, indentured servants and sweatshop workers who built the country. But it's becoming a tougher sale.

That said, J.T, you are a smarmy nationalistic *ss who knows about as much about the USA as you can find on BBC. Just an impression of course.

[donpaulo]

just for the record, 150 million americans might think differently than you regarding the policy of the founding fathers...history is always impregnated with judgemental opinions...

how do you value an individual?? is an engineer, academic, athlete, accountant, business owner, mother of 4 children LESS worth than the mayor of a major American city?? Inquiring minds want to know...

ebonics displays the deep racial problems in U.S...., knowing the color of a person by just how he speaks is a great indicator of the problems of integration in the US...a sad wake-up call for those who idolatrize the melting-pot policy of the States...

hungry guys don't shoot at helicopters, rape women, and steal packs of beer and whiskey, vandalize the city,etc.. dude...those guys I saw were all overweight, the medium weight must have been 150 kg...how much of the vandalism was due to starving stomachs??? 3% perhaps???


I think of the 150 million you mention most don't know who the founding fathers are, but they know who won the last round of survivor. Simply look up the articles of confederation from any search engine to see how difficult it was to get it passed as legislation in the first place. Let alone federalism.

As far as being judgemental goes, I think its fair to say that labelling the new orleans mayor as ebonics friendly is quite judgemental. I simply called you on it. Your "views" on life in general and from past posts appears to indicate a moral agenda.

Value of an individual is relative and so not worth the time it takes to debate. I suspect many here would think you or I aren't worth much.

The "melting pot" theory has been pretty much passe (just as ebonics is) thus confirming your information source as somewhat outdated. The US is more like nabe or sukiyaki than a melting pot. Yet the sum of their ingredients are greater than its individual merits, just as the USA's are.

folks shoot at helicopters all the time, you just don't hear about it. They also rape and steal beer. Its nothing new its simply basic human instinct. Vandalism and empty stomachs is a far stretch... If someone is starving they will go and get food. If the city is closed they will take what they can get, especially if the alternative is to not eat.

Dont think for a moment that hatred has anything to do with race. It has to do with HATE. Those who hate will find all sorts of twisted reasons for doing so. Race is just another issue to warrant hatred. Pol Pot for example killed the intelligensia and folks with glasses, he didn't need race to justify his kull.

Racial hatred is a special kind of hatred and exists everywhere. Ask the Ainu what they think about racial differences, or native americans, or Rwandan Hutuus the list is endless.

Finally what you "saw" and the 150 kilo guys is simply one instance and hardly a sample of what is really going on there. You are free to draw your own conclusions but your information source is limited to say the least.

[aha yes]

just for the record, 150 million americans might think differently than you regarding the policy of the founding fathers...history is always impregnated with judgemental opinions...

how do you value an individual?? is an engineer, academic, athlete, accountant, business owner, mother of 4 children LESS worth than the mayor of a major American city?? Inquiring minds want to know...

ebonics displays the deep racial problems in U.S...., knowing the color of a person by just how he speaks is a great indicator of the problems of integration in the US...a sad wake-up call for those who idolatrize the melting-pot policy of the States...

hungry guys don't shoot at helicopters, rape women, and steal packs of beer and whiskey, vandalize the city,etc.. dude...those guys I saw were all overweight, the medium weight must have been 150 kg...how much of the vandalism was due to starving stomachs??? 3% perhaps???
Takai,
What part of "desperate for survival" do you not understand, you unsympathetic Neanderthal?! It's a DISASTER! People get grumpy when they are about to die from thirst and hunger... It's all fine for you to think you'd behave differently, but then again you don't really know until you're in it, do you, feckin small-minded immature prick?!

BTW Ebonics (or more properly, Black English Dialect) is not a racial problem. It is simply how black people speak -- part of their identity. Why do you think everyone needs to have the exact same accent to get along?

[takai]

BTW Ebonics (or more properly, Black English Dialect) is not a racial problem. It is simply how black people speak -- part of their identity. Why do you think everyone needs to have the exact same accent to get along?
are you intelectually farting again? WHY do blacks have to speak differently?

are you implying that it is good to differentiate over phone the color of a person?

are you identfying race and 'identity'? Can't I be part of their 'identity' becuase I am not black? A black that doesn't speak ebonics, what identity has he/she? should we differentiate the different 'identities' in a country/society on race?

Give me a break!!!

[scotty7]

i'd like to give you ten breaks, Takai, one for each finger

[aha yes]

are you intelectually farting again? WHY do blacks have to speak differently?

are you implying that it is good to differentiate over phone the color of a person?

are you identfying race and 'identity'? Can't I be part of their 'identity' becuase I am not black? A black that doesn't speak ebonics, what identity has he/she? should we differentiate the different 'identities' in a country/society on race?

Give me a break!!!
Well done! A whole post of irrelevant rhetorical questions. But...implications of race on the phone...? WTF are you talking about?!

Simply put, people of many races and regions in the USA have their own accents... Language is a part of identity, so is race, so is region, so are many other things. It's OK for people to differentiate themselves.

What's your point?


PS No I was not intellectually farting...you'll smell it when I do. This is a very common sense argument.

[User Name Deleted]

That said, J.T, you are a smarmy nationalistic *ss who knows about as much about the USA as you can find on BBC. Just an impression of course.

Aho yes,

I thought you had put down your bullhorn.
Still, I guess you hold a grudge against me for some reason or another, and couldn't help but take a potshot. Being the better man, I'll take your inane potshot on the chin.

Good day Sir.

J.T

[aha yes]

Aho yes,

I thought you had put down your bullhorn.
Still, I guess you hold a grudge against me for some reason or another, and couldn't help but take a potshot. Being the better man, I'll take your inane potshot on the chin.

Good day Sir.

J.T
Dear Better Man:

The bullhorn was about your hypocrisy in accusing others of ethnic slurs AND it was on the condition that you put yours down first. But that's beside the point.

No grudge. So, now anytime I disagree with one of your posts, which happens to be often as you tend to post a lot of faux-classy excrement to run up your count, you're gonna play the "grudge" card? Weak...

This is a different matter. What I said wasn't an inane potshot. It was turning on its ear this fecked up little game where you start off benevolently: Others may use Katrina as an opportunity to take pot shots at Americans, but I will not. Then that erodes into some barely related mishmash about CNN and gun laws, and finally ends with this off-the-wall, My impression is that my country's freer than yours... WTF?!

Give & take ol' chap. Give & take. As I said, nothing personal. Opine half-wittedly, be prepared to hear about it.

Cheers!

[User Name Deleted]

Dear Better Man:

The bullhorn was about your hypocrisy in accusing others of ethnic slurs AND it was on the condition that you put yours down first. But that's beside the point.

No grudge. So, now anytime I disagree with one of your posts, which happens to be often as you tend to post a lot of faux-classy excrement to run up your count, you're gonna play the "grudge" card? Weak...

This is a different matter. What I said wasn't an inane potshot. It was turning on its ear this fecked up little game where you start off benevolently: Others may use Katrina as an opportunity to take pot shots at Americans, but I will not. Then that erodes into some barely related mishmash about CNN and gun laws, and finally ends with this off-the-wall, My impression is that my country's freer than yours... WTF?!

Give & take ol' chap. Give & take. As I said, nothing personal. Opine half-wittedly, be prepared to hear about it.

Cheers!

Aho yes,

Refer to my previous message. Being the better man, I'll take your imbecilic comments on the chin.

Once again, good day sir.

Kind regards,

J.T

[aha yes]

Aho yes,

Refer to my previous message. Being the better man, I'll take your imbecilic comments on the chin.

Once again, good day sir.

Kind regards,

J.T
Your Smugness,

That's what I thought... Heavy on form, light on content.

Once again, cheers!

[User Name Deleted]

Your Smugness,

That's what I thought... Heavy on form, light on content.

Once again, cheers!

Aho yes,

your grudge obviously remains alive.

Here's the deal, events in New Orleans show the U.S in the worst possible light.
The richest country in the world puts too much money into military adventures abroad, and too little into disaster prevention, and then the chickens come home to roost, mayhem breaks loose, and the powers that be bumble about trying to fix things up. People die unnecessarily, lawlessness breaks out and so on, exacebated by America's ludicrous gun laws and the hideous state of race relations between Black and White in the U.S.

That's the story, Aho yes.
Is my country without fault? No.
Is your country in a mess of its own making at the moment? Undoubtedly, yes.

[aha yes]

Aho yes,

your grudge obviously remains alive.

Here's the deal, events in New Orleans show the U.S in the worst possible light.
The richest country in the world puts too much money into military adventures abroad, and too little into disaster prevention, and then the chickens come home to roost, mayhem breaks loose, and the powers that be bumble about trying to fix things up. People die unnecessarily, lawlessness breaks out and so on, exacebated by America's ludicrous gun laws and the hideous state of race relations between Black and White in the U.S.

That's the story, Aho yes.
Is my country without fault? No.
Is your country in a mess of its own making at the moment? Undoubtedly, yes.
100% agreement here...although with the current availability of news in papers and on-line, believe it or not your assessment of "the story" does not seem particularly novel or insightful...but it is a far better post than the drive-by unqualified pot shots you were taking earlier. Good reply, Better Boy.

[foxy49]

donpaulo and aha yes, thanks for speaking my mind. Your analogy on America with nabe or sukiyaki instead of melting pot is very interesting and very true. Melting pot was the original(and ideal) concept but the reality is like sukiyaki. The juicy and deliciouse beef goes first, then tofu, then shirataki and veggies and scraps go last.......ummmm,a likely scenario. The guests at Hyatt Hotel right next to Superdome was evacuated long before the refugees at Superdome. In this case people with money bought freedom. foxy49

[heathergrrrl]

Hello - i just recieved an email from a family member in the US asking, "What does [my japanese significant other] think of his country's palltry gift of aid to Katrina victims in the US? In case you both didn't know, Japan donated $1 million...Bangladesh, where the people are so poor they eat dirt, donated $1 million and Junichiro Koizumi spends that much on his hair each year. What gives?? I guess we're finding out who our friends are. Maybe we'll get to recipricate in kind some time in the future."

Needless to say it sounds like picking a fight to me but...i want to remain level headed in my response. I know Japan has been a staunch supporter of the US for years and a strong economic partner. I also know that other than the aid pledge they have opened reserves of fuel to help with the shortage in the US.

My question is - what are your thoughts on this statement - is Japan really not a "friend" to the US? Did the US give more generously to Japan in times of disaster? Does anyone know how much aid the US gave to Japan in 1995 (though i know Japan resisted foreign aid at first)? I feel on the defense...but don't have much ammunition...

Facts, statistics, and thoughts are all appreciated!

[paulh]

My question is - what are your thoughts on this statement - is Japan really not a "friend" to the US? Did the US give more generously to Japan in times of disaster? Does anyone know how much aid the US gave to Japan in 1995 (though i know Japan resisted foreign aid at first)? I feel on the defense...but don't have much ammunition...

Facts, statistics, and thoughts are all appreciated!


I dont have the figures to hand, but per head of population the US ranks among the lowest in foreign aid to other countries. Something like 1/2 a percent of GDP whereas they spend something like 10% of GDP on defence

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

When the tsunami hit in Indonesia (where over 100,000 people died) the US took about a week to come up with a figure. It was actually less than what the US spends on its APEC summit meetings or about 5 million dollars. Bush is now spendin something like a billion dollars a day on his war in Iraq but can only manage a paltry 5 million dollars in Indonesia.

Bush eventually increased the figure to 30 million dollars, but it was too little too late.


America will only give aid where its interests are involved and there is oil. How much did it give in the earthquake in Iran where about 10,000 people were killed? What about famines in Africa?

800,000 people get slaughtered in Rwanda and the US sits on its hands. Where was the US then?

[paulh]

Even though these targets and agendas have been set, year after year almost all rich nations have constantly failed to reach their agreed obligations of the 0.7% target. Instead of 0.7%, the amount of aid has been around 0.2 to 0.4%, some $100 billion short.

Furthermore, the quality of the aid has been poor. As Pekka Hirvonen from the Global Policy Forum summarizes:

Recent increases [in foreign aid] do not tell the whole truth about rich countries’ generosity, or the lack of it. Measured as a proportion of gross national income (GNI), aid lags far behind the 0.7 percent target the United Nations set 35 years ago. Moreover, development assistance is often of dubious quality. In many cases,

Aid is primarily designed to serve the strategic and economic interests of the donor countries;
Or [aid is primarily designed] to benefit powerful domestic interest groups;
Aid systems based on the interests of donors instead of the needs of recipients’ make development assistance inefficient;
Too little aid reaches countries that most desperately need it; and,
All too often, aid is wasted on overpriced goods and services from donor countries.
― Pekka Hirvonen, Stingy Samaritans; Why Recent Increases in Development Aid Fail to Help the Poor, Global Policy Forum, August 2005 [bullet list formatting added]
The Cold War years saw a high amount of aid (though not near the 0.7% mark) as each super power and their allies aided regimes friendly to their interest. The end of the Cold War did not see reduced military budgets resulting in some resources being put towards increased aid, as hoped. Instead, “developing countries find themselves now competing with a number of countries in transition for scarce official assistance”, as noted by the South Centre.

As others have long criticized, aid had a geopolitical value for the donor countries as aid increased when a Cold War had to be fought. (A long decline in the post Cold War 1990s has seen another rise, this time to fight terrorism, also detailed below.)

The issues raised by Hirvonen above are detailed further below. But before going into the poor quality of aid, a deeper look at the numbers:

Some donate many dollars, but are low on GNI percent
Some interesting observations can be made about the amount of aid. For example:

USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been lower than any other industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically in the last four years, their dollar amount has been the highest. (Only in 2004 did they move up from last place by one.)
Since 1992, Japan had been the largest donor of aid, in terms of raw dollars. That was until 2001 when the United States reclaimed that position, a year that also saw Japan’s amount of aid drop by nearly 4 billion dollars (as tables and charts below will also show).
Recent Increases in Aid Modest; Longer View Shows Decline
Overall, ODA has been declining despite some increases in recent years. The UN notes the irony that the decline in aid comes even though conditions are improving for its greater effectiveness. According to the World Bank, overall, the official development assistance worldwide has been decreasing about 20% since 1990.

For the change in aid trends in 2001, the OECD noted that:

“Most of the United States' increase in 2001 was due to a $600 million disbursement to Pakistan for economic support in the September 11 aftermath.”
Japan’s ODA fell by nearly $4 billion. “A key factor accounting for this was a 12.7 per cent depreciation of the Yen....” Other factors were “the timing of Japan’s disbursements to multilateral organisations and loan repayments from Asian countries that have recovered from the Asian financial crisis.”
For the increase in overall aid in 2002 (by just 5%), the OCED commented that:

“The United States increased its ODA by 11.6% in real terms in 2002 ... mainly due to additional and emergency funds in response to the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks as well as new aid initiatives, especially in relation to health and humanitarian aid.”
“Japan’s ODA fell slightly by 1.8% in real terms in 2002. Most of the fall ... was because the Yen depreciated against the US dollar.”
For 2003 trends, the OCED noted that:

The aid increases were modest in 2003.
Reasons 》
In addition, the OECD admitted this was still not enough, and it “underlines the need for developing countries to make efforts on a range of fronts, including by creating an environment where the private sector can thrive.”
In parallel, the OECD “stresses that OECD countries must do more to promote economic growth in poor countries through coherent economic policies that take account of these countries' needs.”
Some positive long-term trends were also noted, for example towards more support for governments that were delivering results, more untied aid, more support for policies “owned” by developing countries rather than imposed upon them through conditionality, and a greater emphasis on governance and health.
However, there was also a sharp decline in aid for agricultural development, and a rising share in total aid outlays of humanitarian aid in response to emergencies as opposed to long-term development and aid to the poorest countries.
For 2004 trends, the OECD noted that:

Aid rose 4.3% in real terms between 2003 and 2004.
Reasons 》
EU countries combined represented 0.36% of GNI.
Inter Press Service (IPS) noted a number of important issues based on a report released April 18, 2005, where U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan “warned against any premature rejoicing over the rising numbers.”

“Adjusted for depreciation of the fast-falling U.S. dollar and worldwide price inflation, the 18.4 percent annual increase of ODA reported for 2003 relative to 2002 ‘falls to around a quarter of that figure,’ [Kofi Annan] notes”
“Arabella Fraser, policy advisor for the international humanitarian organisation Oxfam, is equally guarded” noting that “Rich country self-congratulation is unwarranted,” because “Aid levels are still pitiful ... way below the promise of 0.7 percent, which was made 35 years ago.”
With only around 40 cents in every dollar spent on overseas aid actually reaching the poorest countries, Fraser said that the recent report shows “that aid flows are largely dictated by geo-strategic concerns rather than by efforts to reduce poverty.” (Emphasis added)
In his report, Annan says that although ODA is normally expected to provide new cash resources for recipient countries to increase development spending, “an increasing portion of the recent increases of ODA has taken the form of expenditures on emergency relief in countries that donors have deemed critical for security reasons.” (Emphasis added)
When the large amounts of aid given to Afghanistan and Iraq is taken into account, “ODA in 2003 barely increased in real terms, suggesting that the increase in resources available to meet the MDGs has been quite modest.”
Foreign Aid Numbers in Charts and Graphs

[paulh]

Info on Foreign Aid in the Kobe Hanshin Earthquake

http://www.jpri.org/publications/occasionalpapers/op2.html



5. Reluctance to accept aid from abroad. One of the most puzzling and frustrating discoveries was the reluctance of Japanese authorities to accept assistance from foreign countries. This reluctance stemmed from three sources. First, a strong sense of national pride and self-sufficiency predisposed some Japanese officials to reject such aid, especially from countries that in their eyes are less developed than Japan. Second, the multi-layered Japanese bureaucratic decision-making process made it difficult to respond quickly to the immediate offers of aid from many countries around the world. Third, risk-averse Japanese bureaucrats resisted allowing medicines, relief personnel, dogs to locate survivors, and so forth into the country without first subjecting them to time-consuming procedures, such as the testing of drugs to account for Japanese "uniqueness," animal quarantine measures, and government licenses. Some of these requirements were later eased, but too late to make a significant difference to the victims.

[Blues]

As it has been stated no sense in blaming "The Idiot" in office for the hurricane. It is a shame that America was not prepared for this disater.
"The Idiot" again can not be entirely blamed as the policies of several other "Idiots" have contributed to this disater. You`d have to go back several administrations to point fingers at. The levees along the surrounding areas of the Mississippi were buit under FDR`s new deal program, the Army Corps of Engineers is tasked with maintaining them, however they have been under funded and under manned for years not just with "The Idiot".

I am surprised at MacTheMouth coming down on African-American as he did, considering he is African-American. Also for the suggestion of sending in a Ranger battalion to take care of the looters, a typical response of someone who has never served in the military or ever been in combat. A miltary man would send in Two divisions.

The African-Americans have a history of this type of conduct dating back a long time, look at the Watts, and Detroit riots in the 60`s and the other examples quoted in an earlier posts, but not just the African-Americans as there are also whites who have done similar things. Those acts of raping, shooting, murder etc., are not the acts of poor people driven insane by hunger or poor conditions, those are acts of hard core criminals taking advantage of a situation.

The Mayor of New Orleans is a recent electee and he talks the way he does because he is a young man for his position, at one time he probably would have been considered a Hippie for all the "Mans" he uses when he speaks. However, seems kind of strange that in a city with a population of over 70% African-Americans, a white man is the mayor. That should tell us something.

Now Bush is an "Idiot", he has failed in every business endevours he has ever tried. He did trade away Sammy Sosa and several other players who went on to become stars when he was owner of the Texas Rangers professional baseball club. His comment about not needing help from other nations and that America can do it alone should show him for what he is. An IDIOT. His failure to to move is reminicent of the whatt he did on 9/11, when he sat in that elementary classroom for several minutes not doing a damm thing when he was informed of the planes hitting the Twin Towers.

I am just surprised that he and his administration hasn`t blamed Katrina on Osama Bin Laden.

[foxy49]

Blues, the mayor is African American I'm quite sure.
ANd I'm not surprised if Georgy Porgy the W blames the terrorists for the destruction of the levees........furhter justifying the Iraq war.

foxy49

[Blues]

Damm, in that case I apologize as my eye sight is not so good nowdays. He looked like a white man to me.

[donpaulo]

may people in New Orleans are Creole and therefore of mixed race. African face, French name or vice versa. The mayor is of mixed race, which is SOP in the Big Easy. I think it wise to avoid racial determinism as its human behavior that is worth questioning NOT african or cajun or any other "different" group.

Look no farther than the "great" folks in Jefferson Parish who turned away refugees who had walked from New Orleans seeking shelter and food. The "good" folks of Jefferson turned away their neighbors with shotguns and attack dogs. They turned away the hungry, the homeless and the suffering. This will linger on like cancer...

4 kinds of people stayed in New Orleans ahead of the storm.

1 the elderly
2 the stupid
3 the poor
4 the criminal element

so its not surprising that such behavior would be seen. Of course this kind of activity makes for good pictures on the news which in turn sells advertising so that is what they show you. Not much is said about the neighbors who waded through neck high water to save an old woman or the guy who went back into the burning house to rescue a cat.

What appears to have been going on was that the levee's budget was cut time and again while Mr Bush was on watch. If he had maintained the spending PERHAPS he could make an argument that he did no harm, but in fact he CUT and CUT and CUT and he did do harm. Mr Clinton ont he other hand did spend some to do a study about the relative strength of the system and it was concluded that it could withstand a category 3 storm. He certainly didn't do all he could have but he didn't do any harm.

Its not Bush's fault the storm came, but it is his fault that the emergency system was slow in responding. If he had taken the bull by the horns and cranked it up he COULD have made a difference earlier. He is making a difference NOW but he was a day or two late. Thats alot of dead bodies on his watch. To say nothing of the increase in poverty during his adminstration...

Had this storm hit Florida, or had it been a major earthquake in California the response would have been better because those places know how to respond promptly. Apparently down in the Bayou they were completely unprepared, to say nothing about the missing army assets currently fighting in Iraq that COULD have helped.

This is a hell of mess and its on his watch. His presidency could quite likely go down in history as that of a man who cut civil liberties, engaged in foreign wars, and didn't respond to a crisis in a timely fashion.

From the pictures I have seen I would conclude that GW is a nice guy. That he is approachable and a humanitarian at heart, as all christians are. BUT his politics stink.

As far as americans complaining about a lack of japanese giving, I would say that beggars can't be choosers. If you receive a gift, what kind of selfish person complains about it ? You say thank you very much for your kind gift. If you can give more it would be helpful... Its typical ego driven US drivel. Get a life and stop worrying about what others do for you and go out and do it for yourself.

[heathergrrrl]

donpaulo - i'm as fired up about the whole thing as you are and especially by my family member's comments obviously meant to push my buttons; however, i figured responding to them in the "you bad mouth me so i'll bad mouth you" kind of manner makes my response no better than their initial asinine comments.

so many thanks to paulh for all the info and statistics - they were helpful. i wish i could find US aid to Japan after the hanshin earthquake though - but, like you, all i found was that they resisted initial aid from abroad.

anyway, i used the info you gave and some of my own to respond and give them something more to think about than i'm pissed too (hope i didn't make any mistakes!):

"i'm not sure how to respond to your question and comments about Japan being friends of America and maybe America can repay their lack of support soon...but i know that i certainly can't explain my country's government's actions (lack of preparation or funding to prevent a disaster in this scale; saying there are WMD and that's why we have to start a war, when there weren't; not joining the world to reduce the use of fossil fuels, and emissions to prevent global warming (kyoto protocol) - possibly what is causing the increase in storms like katrina recently and definitely not helping with the gas shortage and hike in gas prices; etc.) so i don't really expect _____ to. i do know that we personally donated to the red cross 2005 hurricane relief fund 4 days after it made landfall so Americans definitely have friends in japan. also, i know that japan's government has been a staunch US supporter in the reconstruction of Afghanistan and the war on Iraq - providing a total of $30 million in assistance for Afghanistan's political rebuilding after the war. i know japan's government supports the US in so many ways - from changing their constitution to send troops to Iraq, to providing bases and financial support to US military in Japan.

so - i'm sorry you are offended by the japanese government's response to katrina but i don't think it's enough to say that the japanese government isn't a friend of the us government and even less a reason to think that the japanese people don't try to help the american people and that american shouldn't help japan if they were in need. japan not only provided financial relief but also has offered disaster relief teams, and released oil reserves to help with the shortage crisis the US is facing."

[Che]

My two yen.

Bush has done more than anyone to contribute to global climate change.

Bush has spent more money on the military than anyone.

If you were living next door to a gun nut who's roof blew off in a hurricane, would you donate your hard-earned cash, or would you suggest he sold some of his guns and get a new roof?

Pity is of course that it's not bush who's sufferring, he's wasting more tax payers money flying around for publicity shots.

[eku]

language is a funny thing

[wolfgang_flur]

o_o..Eku your post is accurately disturbing (good one..it really seems to sum up a bit of the mentality going on in the US regarding race).

I have to admit Im not up on my foreign aid facts. PaulH is the man when it comes to that. But my initial response to the complaint (if it was a complaint or not I dont know, if not Im sorry). Japan gave the US $1 million dollars in relief. Well that's $1 million they didnt have before. Also, Canada had relief, ship with supplies and manpower just *waiting* to help the U.S and the U.S at first stated they didnt need the help.

I stayed at a friends house for awhile last year in Akishima, the suburbs of Tokyo. Located in this area is an American army base that would fly fighter jet planes over my friends house about 10-13 times a day. The noise was...deafening. The base dwelling soldiers in the area would stand outside the train station stopping every japanese girl that went by trying to get them to go to their base "Church Dance". They also would stand there regularly and hand out booklets to everyone cominghome from work trying to get them to come to their new on Base Church so they could learn about Christianity. Being half japanese myself they would first ask where was I from, when I told them Im half- they'd ask if I was Christian or "something else" hand me a pamphlet and ask me to get my girlfriends to come to their Base dances.

My point in all this- is that I found it quite obnoxious and irritating on a daily basis. Perhaps the U.S is lucky that Japan offered $1 million is aid. Japan has also had problems with local natural crumminess like the tsunamis in Kyushu (is that on the American news too?). When it comes to the richest country in the world, and a leader who doesnt want to cut some of the Bombing the Brown people Budget to help his own citizens how can anyone be angry at another country for "not donating enough money" to the most affluent place on earth? If anything, offering manpower and supplies - offering anything from the other side of the freakin world that is occupied by US army bases full of annoying cadets (not ALL ..but in my experience, I did not meet one soldier who didnt want something from me)- well its pretty damn lucky in my eyes. It NICE to be offered anything at all. When it comes to foreign aid, countries have no RIGHT to this money and manpower- it's donated.
To bring it down to a small analogy, it's like being mad at your parents for buying you a Toyota Camry instead of a Lexus on your 16th birthday. When the sound fact is your damn lucky you got a car at all you ungrateful peon o_O!
(this isnt directed at anyone by the way, just my response to the idea that anyone in the US could be mad at Japan for a "paltry" gift)

As an afterthought- perhaps the people of Bangledesh could stop eating low quality garden soil for dinner if their country gave the Million dollars to the citizens instead ofgiving the money away to impress the people with the weapons of Mass destruction.

[paulh]

o I have to admit Im not up on my foreign aid facts. PaulH is the man when it comes to that. But my initial response to the complaint (if it was a complaint or not I dont know, if not Im sorry). Japan gave the US $1 million dollars in relief. Well that's $1 million they didnt have before. Also, Canada had relief, ship with supplies and manpower just *waiting* to help the U.S and the U.S at first stated they didnt need the help.
t)

I read somewhere that in response time the Canadian Army was on the ground in Louisiana within 36 hours of the flood giving aid, and got there sooner than the national guard. This was after flying over 3000 miles from another country.

Pretty embarassing that they have countries like Sri Lanka and Indonesia offering aid though.

[wolfgang_flur]

I read somewhere that in response time the Canadian Army was on the ground in Louisiana within 36 hours of the flood giving aid, and got there sooner than the national guard. This was after flying over 3000 miles from another country.

Pretty embarassing that they have countries like Sri Lanka and Indonesia offering aid though.

yeah that's the truth paul o_O! Canada was mobilized and ready- all they were waiting for to start working was permission from the U.S government. That didnt happen for quite sometime...my father was really up on Canadian involvement in the whole thing. Canada had shiteloads of food, clean water, relief workers, soldiers, you name it. I'm not sure if Goerge Bush had finished his morning coffee on the ranch yet....

and as I edited in my above post- Im sure aid from all those countries like Indonesia and Sri Lanka would do an awful lot to help the poor citizens of their own countries rather than worry about giving it to the US. But hey, I guess noone wants to seem "cheap".

[aha yes]

When I saw the pic posted above I just thought, it figures... But then I found an interesting counter to it here: http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp. The two photographers were tracked down and asked why they chose the words "looting" or "finding". Turns out one photographer actually witnessed people break into a shop and take things, while the other saw people snatch up something that was floating by in the water.

No denying the racism in this whole ordeal. And no doubt language use with an agenda goes way back in the media, racist or otherwise, but there's more to this case than meets the eye. Who knows which word each photographer would have chosen had he not first seen what he did? Can you say for sure the same photographer who used "finding" for whites wouldn't have used "looting" if that's what he'd seen? Doesn't mean he's racist... Apples & oranges, IMO.

[eku]

what happened to innocent until proven guilty..???

anyway, reporters are supposed to be objective.... did the white guy leave money on the counter to pay for the stuff he found??? did the black guy break the window of the shop and deliberately steal the bread?

we dont know and of course the photographer is going to cover his bum.

[aha yes]

what happened to innocent until proven guilty..???

anyway, reporters are supposed to be objective.... did the white guy leave money on the counter to pay for the stuff he found??? did the black guy break the window of the shop and deliberately steal the bread?

we dont know and of course the photographer is going to cover his bum.
What I mean is, the photographers could be lying...or not. Assume for a sec (innocent until proven guilty, right?), they're being honest about what they saw. If I saw somebody pick up something out of the water, "looting" isn't the first word that leaps to mind, white or black. And if I saw somebody break a window and take something from a shop, I wouldn't think "finding" is the best descriptor. These are different guys reporting different scenes under different circumstances Only when the pictures/captions are juxtaposed does it look like some monolithic eye-in-the-sky racist media. And that's what gets spread all over the Internet.

FWIW, I don't consider "looting" in this case to be a conviction of those people anyway. If it were me, I'd be stealing sh*t right and left to keep going. It's not like they were carrying TV sets. So being "guilty" of anything is in the eye of the beholder.

Guess we'll never know. I doubt photographers are capable of being any more objective than anybody else, but then again, I don't think dismissing them as racists based on a single photo, without knowing the whole story, is very objective either.

[JayJay]

yeah that's the truth paul o_O! Canada was mobilized and ready- all they were waiting for to start working was permission from the U.S government. That didnt happen for quite sometime...my father was really up on Canadian involvement in the whole thing. Canada had shiteloads of food, clean water, relief workers, soldiers, you name it. I'm not sure if Goerge Bush had finished his morning coffee on the ranch yet....

Remember though, Canada isnt yahooing round the world, bomding stone age countries back to the dirt age and spending billions upon billions on foriegn f*&k ups. And now we see what a good thing that is. Disaster stikes and Canada is ready and able, while America is saying " ohhh sh&t man, where did all dem all American soilders go?"

I would bet Europe, Japan or even New Zealand could get troops there quicker than the Americans did.

Good on Canada though. Yet another case of Americas neighbour bending backwards to help and not getting the slightest of thanks (like 9/11).

[eku]

well a piccie of a guy climbing out of a broken store window with a tv and a dvd player loaded on his shoulders would deserve the title LOOTING
but a guy wading through water with a loaf of bread... well it doesnt show anything more than the fact that he is wading through water with a loaf of bread.....

whether he is black or white... the facts remain the same.

[kurogane]

but a guy wading through water with a loaf of bread... well it doesnt show anything more than the fact that he is wading through water with a loaf of bread.....

whether he is black or white... the facts remain the same.

Ahh, yes, My Angel of Fairness, but rememember: when you think you see a guy wading through water with a loaf of bread, you may be looking at alien bread wading through water with a loaf of guy.

What was the famous conundrum thingy like that?

[stillnosheep]

If I can be a man dreaming that I am a butterfly, how can I be sure that I am not a butterfly, dreaming that I am a man.

or somesuch.

[eku]

Ahh, yes, My Angel of Fairness, but rememember: when you think you see a guy wading through water with a loaf of bread, you may be looking at alien bread wading through water with a loaf of guy.

What was the famous conundrum thingy like that?

the conundrum... hmmm lots of those
who came first, K or Y :D
give you a JELLY doughnut for that one
teehee

[aha yes]

If I can be a man dreaming that I am a butterfly, how can I be sure that I am not a butterfly, dreaming that I am a man.
Ah, Chuang Tzu, a man who knew how to dream...or be dreamed about.



PS Mmmmmmm...jelly doughnut.

[User Name Deleted]

The lack of preparedness by the US for such a disaster still amazes me.

George W Bush may serve two terms, but me thinks historians of the future will not be kind in their assessments of him.

[wolfgang_flur]

Remember though, Canada isnt yahooing round the world, bomding stone age countries back to the dirt age and spending billions upon billions on foriegn f*&k ups. And now we see what a good thing that is. Disaster stikes and Canada is ready and able, while America is saying " ohhh sh&t man, where did all dem all American soilders go?"

I would bet Europe, Japan or even New Zealand could get troops there quicker than the Americans did.

Good on Canada though. Yet another case of Americas neighbour bending backwards to help and not getting the slightest of thanks (like 9/11).

Dark Lord! I know o_O;! I was in Toronto at the time of 9/11..they even took our BLOOD o________o! MASS quantities (I was ineligible to donate blood as it's horrifyingly toxic from the amount of pharmeceuticals in it..though if donated to someone they'd probably get a buzz :P)
...and Pearson, our largest international airport almost went bankrupt stopping everything to land their planes.
We watched as they thanked everyone but us. But then again i suppose you dont aid people in need to get thanks from a bunch of wads. You do it because people need help and that's that.

..OT I finally saw StarWars...JayJay Im sorry about your legs...and skin and all that stuff- I..I never knew D:

[derrick_odd]

Not to blame W for the hurricane?. I blame him for EVERYTHING!!.
Only 3 more dreadfull years guys......ONLY 3 more long and devastating f__ing years!!!! foxy49He's got a 36% approval rating. The VP is at 18%. Maybe he'll get impeached before then...