Japanese view of foreigners (My Year of Meats by Ruth L. Ozeki)

[california84]

Has anyone read “My Year of Meats” by Ruth L. Ozeki? I just finished it and loved it. I don’t necessary agree with the anti-beef message and I don’t want this to turn into a pro or anit-beef thing, but I like to talk about the overall message cross culture.

For those who have not read this book here is the basic plot. A Japanese/American women is a starving film maker who is hired by a Japanese Company to promote a U.S. Beef to do this they create a reality show. In this show the Japanese make a reality show called “My American Wife” the show is advertised to the Japanese as a show about American life, food, and culture written by Americans staring American in America. In reality the show is written by Japanese producer who hand pick American that meet there stereotypes (e.g. white females that are in there 20’s) then they have them cook weird beef recipes (e.g.. Beef brownies or Pepsi stew). They also show weird people not the average American. On the other hand the American Film Maker wants to show the really America and struggles to sneak in the really America (Multi-ethic with more realistic recipes). The Japanese produces fight and often turn here down say this is not real American, but fake American. Here is my question.

Do you think as a teacher, when you look through textbooks, or when you watch Japanese TV that the Japanese push the Japanese Stereotypes of the West often showing foreigner’s .and other countries as they view it not as those countries or people really are?

CALI

[Василисия]

Two years ago or so, there was a big uproar in the Japanese media against a TV program of the Hungarian TV which according to the Japanese did not show the Japanese people in the best light and made fun of the Japanese appearance. The Hungarian TV stopped the program after the interference of the Japanese embassy in Hungary and apologized to Japan. However, on several occasions I have seen how the Japanese TV makes fun of foreigners in the same way they had protested against.

[tppero]

Of course the japanese media is going to push what they think of "foreign" culture. Its going to be biased towards whatever head honcho on top thinks it should be shown as. IE foreign=inferior and japanese= superior. Just my honest opinion.

[Hijinxxx]

It's all about ratings. Would Japanese viewers tune in to a show about normal Americans doing boring, mundane things (much like the things the J counterparts do)? Same thing happens in the States when newspapers run little snippet stories about the Japanese doing odd or outrageous things--it sells.

[paulh]

This reminds me of that guy in the US called Borat who is doing the rounds in the US and making the people involved look idiotic and foolish. he pretends to be making a documentary For kazakh TV about American life. like a mid asian Alistair Cooke and people who want their five minutes of fame do stupid things to get on film.


I just read in the JT this morning that japanese in France are complaining about the bad Japanese food in restaurants and how its not even representative of Japanese food, but here you have kare-rice, pizza, and foreign concoctions that wouldnt be seen dead in their native countries.

To Japanese people the outside world is viewed as its there for Japanese entertainment- 'look at those crazy weird gaijin' etc. and they sample the food from those countries in the studios. The whole thing is a kind of 'us and them' mentality and that no foreigners can really understand Japanese people etc.

[Василисия]

Japanese people usually think that foreigners are not modest and humble, they are pushy, aggressive, like to boast about themselves and are not able to work in harmony with the group. This is the usual Japanese stereotype of a foreigner.

[The Arsenal]

Can one get a decent Coq Au Vin in Japan?

How about a reasonable Cassoulet?

The Japanese complain about lack of authentic Japanese food in France?

What...the cheese cart does not have nori as a side?

As an aside...France is a great country....just too many French people live there.......

See that big metal thing with the lights? It's called the Eiffel Tower....

You guys owe me a new monitor....as I just sprayed coffee all over mine.....

[paulh]

Japanese people usually think that foreigners are not modest and humble, they are pushy, aggressive, like to boast about themselves and are not able to work in harmony with the group. This is the usual Japanese stereotype of a foreigner.


that sounds like you are talking about my mother-in-law. No shrinking violet that one. Won the obatarian award three years running.

[The Arsenal]

Japanese people usually think that foreigners are not modest and humble, they are pushy, aggressive, like to boast about themselves and are not able to work in harmony with the group. This is the usual Japanese stereotype of a foreigner.

Explain that to the 8 (yep....counted them) dead drunk people I saw actually prostrate in the street last night......trust me...they were QUITE humble........one of them did not even know where he lived.....BUT....they were quite harmonious...........

[Василисия]

Well, I often hear Japanese people say that foreigners are individualist who ignore the wellbeing of the group and work for their own personal benefit without taking in account the harmony.

[Василисия]

This is how the Japanese reacted when somebody makes a stereotype of them:

Sunday, Sept. 28, 2003

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20030928b1.html
Hungary TV cuts controversial show
VIENNA (Kyodo) The Hungarian television station TV2 has yanked a show that drew the ire of the local Japanese community, Japanese diplomats said Friday.
The diplomats said TV2 told the embassy in Budapest that the show has been removed from the fall lineup, which kicked off earlier this month.
The program, "Micuko -- the world in slanted eyes," features a Hungarian TV reporter in a black hairpiece and fake teeth who passes herself off as a goggled-eyed Japanese woman to ambush and interview Hungarian celebrities.
The show, launched in March and suspended in May, infuriated the Japanese community in Hungary. The embassy filed a protest with TV2 and the Hungarian Foreign Ministry in late April.
"Micuko" producers told the embassy in May that TV2 had decided to suspend the show for three months and the program would return in September under a new name.

but when the Japanese people make comedy shows making fun of foreigners, wearing ugly hairpieces or big noses - it is ok. I watched a show at one New Year's day when many abnormal foreigners (too fat, too tall or too short) were shown for the amusement of the Japanese audience.

[Frostlight]

Do you think as a teacher, when you look through textbooks, or when you watch Japanese TV that the Japanese push the Japanese Stereotypes of the West often showing foreigner’s .and other countries as they view it not as those countries or people really are?
Well, I'm not a teacher, but I would hazard that any country promotes stereotypes of other cultures. And reality TV - well, nothing about that is *real*. Look at shows such as Big Brother, where the cast seems to be picked on the basis of outrageous exhibitionism. Or The Bachelor, where the girls are all models (or will be hired as models after the show airs). Reality TV stereotypes even a domestic population - that's simply its nature, because producers seek controversy to attract ratings.

[himalayas2]

"Here is my question.

Do you think as a teacher, when you look through textbooks, or when you watch Japanese TV that the Japanese push the Japanese Stereotypes of the West often showing foreigner’s .and other countries as they view it not as those countries or people really are?"

Ever watch "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"? Hilarious,stupid movie full of stereotypes of all sorts of characters all thrown together. It made fun of everybody, but the underdog ie the nerdy asian and indian guys, win in end.

[aha yes]

then they have them cook weird beef recipes (e.g.. Beef brownies or Pepsi stew)
Pepsi stew? Well, I like Pepsi, and I like stew, but...it just doesn't seem right unless you're hypoglycemic or something.

As for beef brownies, I'd go for beef hash brownies, minus the beef.

Then again, screw the image of all my fellow foreigners, for fame and fortune I'd do anything the producers asked me.

[Василисия]

Then again, screw the image of all my fellow foreigners, for fame and fortune I'd do anything the producers asked me.

Will you undress if they ask you???:o

[aha yes]

Will you undress if they ask you???:o
Ha, forget fame and fortune, I'll undress for a Kit Kat. I'm easy... Unless it's cold, then I require whiskey.

How about you, BacN? What does it take to get you undressed?

[Василисия]

Ha, forget fame and fortune, I'll undress for a Kit Kat. I'm easy... Unless it's cold, then I require whiskey.

How about you, BacN? What does it take to get you undressed?

Not for money...
but I am not beautiful, so no need to do it...

[cutyourhair]

IMO, a large portion of Japanese are infested with steretypes, to the point that when I meet one that is not biased or brainwashed, I raise my hands in praise to god.

Or ask them on a date.

[highvoltage]

For those who have not read this book here is the basic plot. A Japanese/American women is a starving film maker who is hired by a Japanese Company to promote a U.S. Beef to do this they create a reality show. In this show the Japanese make a reality show called “My American Wife” the show is advertised to the Japanese as a show about American life, food, and culture written by Americans staring American in America. In reality the show is written by Japanese producer who hand pick American that meet there stereotypes (e.g. white females that are in there 20’s) then they have them cook weird beef recipes (e.g.. Beef brownies or Pepsi stew). They also show weird people not the average American. On the other hand the American Film Maker wants to show the really America and struggles to sneak in the really America (Multi-ethic with more realistic recipes). The Japanese produces fight and often turn here down say this is not real American, but fake American. Here is my question.

Do you think as a teacher, when you look through textbooks, or when you watch Japanese TV that the Japanese push the Japanese Stereotypes of the West often showing foreigner’s .and other countries as they view it not as those countries or people really are?

CALI

Yeah it's based on ignorance and it's very irritating. But really nothing that doesnt happen on American TV stereotyping foreign cultures (despite the fact that America is supposedly a very diverse nation).

Wish they would all stop and people would just stop exaggerating and stereotyping - hmmm when's that going to happen?

[highvoltage]

Hungary TV cuts controversial show
VIENNA (Kyodo) The Hungarian television station TV2 has yanked a show that drew the ire of the local Japanese community, Japanese diplomats said Friday.

The program, "Micuko -- the world in slanted eyes," features a Hungarian TV reporter in a black hairpiece and fake teeth who passes herself off as a goggled-eyed Japanese woman to ambush and interview Hungarian celebrities.
The show, launched in March and suspended in May, infuriated the Japanese community in Hungary. The embassy filed a protest with TV2 and the Hungarian Foreign Ministry in late April.
"Micuko" producers told the embassy in May that TV2 had decided to suspend the show for three months and the program would return in September under a new name.

but when the Japanese people make comedy shows making fun of foreigners, wearing ugly hairpieces or big noses - it is ok. I watched a show at one New Year's day when many abnormal foreigners (too fat, too tall or too short) were shown for the amusement of the Japanese audience.


Who says it's okay? We should protest. We have every right to complain just as those Japanese in Hungary do.

[銕銕銕]

Who says it's okay? We should protest. We have every right to complain just as those Japanese in Hungary do.

I like to complain about our resident Vulgarians and their hypocritical paranoid delusions of persecution.

I find them inscrutable.

[highvoltage]

This reminds me of that guy in the US called Borat who is doing the rounds in the US and making the people involved look idiotic and foolish. he pretends to be making a documentary For kazakh TV about American life. like a mid asian Alistair Cooke and people who want their five minutes of fame do stupid things to get on film.


I just read in the JT this morning that japanese in France are complaining about the bad Japanese food in restaurants and how its not even representative of Japanese food, but here you have kare-rice, pizza, and foreign concoctions that wouldnt be seen dead in their native countries.

To Japanese people the outside world is viewed as its there for Japanese entertainment- 'look at those crazy weird gaijin' etc. and they sample the food from those countries in the studios. The whole thing is a kind of 'us and them' mentality and that no foreigners can really understand Japanese people etc.

Hmmm... Borat actually makes me laugh ALOT. That probably makes me a bit of a hippocrit but get to that another time.

You're right about how annoying it is when people complain about how inaccurate the world's impression of Japanese stuff is. How is anybody supposed to fully understand Japan, or ANY random country for that matter. (Granted, Japan has made many valuable contribution to modern culture but it doesn't make it more important than others.) It's not as if Japanese people make more of a special effort to understand other countries, and alot of people can't even tell the difference between Korea and China, their closest neighbours.

I love how horrified some Japanese people get when they go abroad and get mistaken for Chinese. Can they tell the difference between a Swedish person and a German person just by looking?

[highvoltage]

I like to complain about our resident Vulgarians and their hypocritical paranoid delusions of persecution.

I find them inscrutable.

I would love to reply to this but I have to admit I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not.

I was just saying, you shouldn't blame the Japanese complainers, everyone should complain.

[銕銕銕]

I would love to reply to this but I have to admit I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not..

sweets, you dont even qualify.

i was referring to Bacunakunutso

as for complaining, yes. Unless it is about Foreigners. If they're A'holes, call 'em Aholes, just don't blame it on their point of origin. Maybe that is why they were pointed away from it.

I've had my fill of that crap for the next twelve fuggin years.

Had to listen to it at Coffee the other day too. and i'm in Whistler, fer Fuggssake.

if i get called a Gaijin here again, I'm gonna spew Tohoku Ben.

So endeth the rant

[highvoltage]

sweets, you dont even qualify.

i was referring to Bacunakunutso

as for complaining, yes. Unless it is about Foreigners. If they're A'holes, call 'em Aholes, just don't blame it on their point of origin. Maybe that is why they were pointed away from it.

I've had my fill of that crap for the next twelve fuggin years.

Had to listen to it at Coffee the other day too. and i'm in Whistler, fer Fuggssake.

if i get called a Gaijin here again, I'm gonna spew Tohoku Ben.

So endeth the rant

right that's what I kind of thought, but bootifully elocwent as I am, I just didnt catch your roundabout way of saying things this time.

Just give 'em the old frustrated exasperated angry "DONT CALL MEEE GAIIIIJIN". That should save everybody any kind of embarrassment. Actually, I probably don't know a graceful way to get round it - ignore? (not very satisfying, but it's what I'm doing at the moment..)

Ideas?

[銕銕銕]

Just give 'em the old frustrated exasperated angry "DONT CALL MEEE GAIIIIJIN". That should save everybody any kind of embarrassment. Actually, I probably don't know a graceful way to get round it - ignore? (not very satisfying, but it's what I'm doing at the moment..)

Ideas?

Ignore it is what I did; hence the rant here.

I like to turn it on them: use the G word to refer to them, even though you know they mean the Locals, then mention language problems with Gs, then when they ask if the Gs don't speak English, what language do they speak, and where are they from, you say Japan, Korea, & China;

"you know, East Asians".

By then all but the thickest or most dogmatic have usually caught on to my admittedly pedantic point.

lately i just cant be bothered. Its like they are too stupid to bother with, and, as with most humanoids, at a statistical level, this is demonstrably true.

I dont mind the word so much in Japan; its stupid, and sophomorically racist (because indolent), but A G is a G.

Over Here, it makes my skin crawl. Its like they are trying extra hard to make themselves unlikeable, but are too dimwitted to realise it.

[jesus.!]

[QUOTE=銕銕銕]

"you know, East Asians".
QUOTE]
Agreed.

Would you be able to teach me the phrase for "ancestors of the Austronesians"?

I'd love to throw that one at 'em.

[highvoltage]

And so there is my answer, no, we don't have a good way to respond.

Of course it's always helpful if you have a Japanese friend handy and start speaking in fluent Japanese to them. Or I guess you could always get on the phone.

[jesus.!]

Wait, if Kuro helps us out,　we'll have classic.

"descended from Austronesians?"

[Василисия]

Japanese people also like to stereotype themselves. I have often heard, "I am shy because I am Japanese." Sometimes I find that being shy is an excuse for insociability and lack of communication skills. Why do not you practise more and be more sociable and amiable, I think sometimes...

[highvoltage]

Bacn: I was watching tv last night and thought of what you said actually, about how gaijin are misrepresented by strange people who come on TV just to be ridiculous for entertainment value and I thought,
boy, I hope Brad, Angelina, Cameron, Kiera, David Beckham, and Beyonce don't get offended by that...

[highvoltage]

Japanese people also like to stereotype themselves. I have often heard, "I am shy because I am Japanese." Sometimes I find that being shy is an excuse for insociability and lack of communication skills. Why do not you practise more and be more sociable and amiable, I think sometimes...


Yeah I don't know why people do that... It's weird isn't it. Maybe that's where alot of frustration comes from and it's part of Nihonjinron - the delicate but ancient art of making people want to tear their hair out.

[thatsme]

Yeah I don't know why people do that... It's weird isn't it. Maybe that's where alot of frustration comes from and it's part of Nihonjinron - the delicate but ancient art of making people want to tear their hair out.


copyed fron aha yes post.

Then again, screw the image of all my fellow foreigners, for fame and fortune I'd do anything the producers asked me.


could it be the reason?

[highvoltage]

copyed fron aha yes post.

Then again, screw the image of all my fellow foreigners, for fame and fortune I'd do anything the producers asked me.


could it be the reason?

I didn't see the aha yes post... but if he/she said that, then cool.. I agree.

Did he/she talk about ancient arts or hairloss?

And yes, starving actors generally don't pick and choose, although I personally think Japan has portrayed Americans better than Hollywood has portrayed the Japanese (especially if you consider the relative minority populations), although yes, it needs to be improved on both sides.

[thatsme]

Pepsi stew? Well, I like Pepsi, and I like stew, but...it just doesn't seem right unless you're hypoglycemic or something.

As for beef brownies, I'd go for beef hash brownies, minus the beef.

Then again, screw the image of all my fellow foreigners, for fame and fortune I'd do anything the producers asked me.

here is the full post.

everyone does that not only in japan!!

[highvoltage]

here is the full post.

everyone does that not only in japan!!

eh? are you quoting the wrong person? I havent made a similar post to that one...

[thatsme]

eh? are you quoting the wrong person? I havent made a similar post to that one...

sorry, need to make sure that we are not having a comunication brake down.
aha yes is the name of a poster.
first i copyed part of it. and later the full.

anyway not a big deal.
i my self had some experience appearing on tv several times but that was long time ago, in nagoya, and yes, i had to exagerate my italian image, like girolamo used to do when he worked for the nhk.

basically it is just for money!!!

[highvoltage]

sorry, need to make sure that we are not having a comunication brake down.
aha yes is the name of a poster.
first i copyed part of it. and later the full.

anyway not a big deal.
i my self had some experience appearing on tv several times but that was long time ago, in nagoya, and yes, i had to exagerate my italian image, like girolamo used to do when he worked for the nhk.

basically it is just for money!!!

s'aright. lets start again.

Hmmm yeah I have two UK born Chinese friends who are aspiring actors. 90% of their roles are turning up in black suits and wave choppers around, or they get asked to do backflips.

BTW - was the money good?

[Василисия]

BTW - was the money good?

My friend from Russia played Princess Diana on Japanese TV. The money was good, she said. But ... she had to be sprikled with red paint...

[highvoltage]

My friend from Russia played Princess Diana on Japanese TV. The money was good, she said. But ... she had to be sprikled with red paint...


sexy.....

when we say the money was good, we're talking, \100,000?

[Василисия]

sexy.....

when we say the money was good, we're talking, \100,000?

I do not know how much she was paid....
She also participated in some ads of chewing gums as a background to Bae Jong (Yon sama) hahaha funny stuff

[thatsme]

s'aright. lets start again.

Hmmm yeah I have two UK born Chinese friends who are aspiring actors. 90% of their roles are turning up in black suits and wave choppers around, or they get asked to do backflips.

BTW - was the money good?

we are talking about 17 years ago.
20.000 per appearance!!
so not really good.
but it was also for the experience, i met many japanese comedian, tamori, sanma, and others, i forgot the names.

[Василисия]

thastme played in romantic comedies?

[highvoltage]

we are talking about 17 years ago.
20.000 per appearance!!
so not really good.
but it was also for the experience, i met many japanese comedian, tamori, sanma, and others, i forgot the names.

awwwww 20,000 yen? you can't even buy a Louis vuitton hankerchief for that...

[eku]

we are talking about 17 years ago.
20.000 per appearance!!
so not really good.
but it was also for the experience, i met many japanese comedian, tamori, sanma, and others, i forgot the names.
eeeee poor you sandro.. i used to do tv stuff... about the same time .....70.000 for the morning plus transportation which was paid with blank taxi tickets... (use as you like)

[thatsme]

eeeee poor you sandro.. i used to do tv stuff... about the same time .....70.000 for the morning plus transportation which was paid with blank taxi tickets... (use as you like)

nice one!!
it was for a local tv in nagoya, i think chukyo tv.
i appeared for about 15 times.
if i had stayed in japan, i could have been the girolamo.
he came after me, and at that time not many italians.
oh well, past is past.
but i had a great time.

[Василисия]

nice one!!
it was for a local tv in nagoya, i think chukyo tv.
i appeared for about 15 times.
if i had stayed in japan, i could have been the girolamo.
he came after me, and at that time not many italians.
oh well, past is past.
but i had a great time.

Do not worry, you are more handsome than Girolamo. It is more important than fame and money.

[Fantasy]

So Japanese people do not like it when they are shown in the wrong way on foreign TVs:



Matsushita recalls a project she worked on with a New Zealand TV crew making a children's program. "They had a Maori woman, and they insisted they wanted to paint her face white. But if you're wearing the type of kimono she was wearing, you're not a geisha--you don't paint your face white. But they said they would paint her face white anyway," she said. "I thought, if you want to create 'your Japan,' you can do it in your studio in New Zealand. You can build a red torii gate or whatever and rent some props. What's the point of coming to Japan if you don't pay attention to how things are done in Japan?"


But the same can be told how Japanese people represent foreigners on Japanese TV and media...