Rape Fantasy

[Anonymous]

Ok Girls... whats the real deal about the Rape Fantasies? And how does this relate to the average women? Educate us please.

[Anonymous]

Whoa!

What's YOUR interest in this? "Educate us please".

Practically no women have "rape fantasies", and those that 'do' ignore a category problem with the concept: having a fantasy implies a want, but rape is necessarily non-consensual. "Rape-fantasy" (where the fantasy is of being raped rather than raping) is thus essentially oxymoronic.

It's unfortunately true that there are lots of porno-movies in Japan which pander to "rape fantasies"; but these are marketed at men, the fantasy being served is that of raping, not being raped.

And, that's it. Please don't imagine that Japanese women are any more likely than women from any other country to "want" to be raped. They are not.

[DJ]

Yeah right....I'm sure the average woman (any race/nationality) has fantasies about being raped. It sounds to me like you watch a little too much Japanese porn for your own good.......


-Having "rape fantasies" is a result of girls being molested in early childhood, either sexually or physically. It's not a healthy sign......

[Coin-Operated-Clown]

aj,

There's real need for some clarification here.

Are you a woman who's heard stories about "rape-fantasies" being common in Japan, in Manga and etc., and is now worried about coming here?

If so, I think you're worrying needlessly. That those sick fantasies are depicted in comics which (some) men feel comfortable reading in public is one of the stranger things about this society, but I've yet to read reports suggesting that rapes are more common here than in Western countries. Groping, by contrast, IS a problem that women have to learn how to manage.

If you're a man, then I have to agree with 'discomfiting thread' and with 'dj'. Your asking this question seems strange and IS discomfiting.

COC

[Anonymous]

Well, asking the question just because you don't know "why would a women have a rape fantasy?" could be a worthwhile reason.

secondly, it does seem that (some) women have them:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20030220/od_nm/odd_canada_abduction_dc

but, "Having "rape fantasies" is a result of girls being molested in early childhood, either sexually or physically."

...sounds like a believable explanation for some cases. Yet, there are probably other situations, too. And all in all, I don't think that the percentage of women with rape fantasies is very high.

[smallworld]

Jeremy, the story doesn't give enough details for us to conclude that this girl was living out her rape fantasy. As already pointed out, 'rape fantasy' is an oxymoron. This girl perhaps was living out a fantasy of being abducted and seduced by a handsome stranger, or even of being 'forced' to have sex. Which is different from rape. Or maybe it was the man's fantasy she was helping to fulfill.

Anyway, I doubt that any woman actually truly wants to be forced into sex against her will. Even if she hasn't experienced rape herself, it's not hard to imagine how frightning, painful and degrading it would be. So what's there to fantasize about?

[Anonymous]

IMHO, this "rape fantasy" is a thing invented by the men who actually may
have this kind of fantasies, and promoted by those porn selling sites which cater to
men. There is no way a woman may fantasize about being raped by (an) ugly stranger(s) with halitosis ... Women may like to be seduced, but as smallworld pointed out, by handsome, attractive strangers (who, by the way, if are really good looking, do not even need to bother).
There is nothing more degrading and ruinous for a woman than being raped. So please, for God's sake, stop presuming that women love to be humiliated just because you've
seen a bunch of sluts doing that on TV for money. Reality and image are completely different things.

[jotty]

Rape is not a sexual act, it is a violent act of agression and is recognised as such by many legal systems. If both people agree to/want to have sex, then it cant be defined as rape. There is no 'rape-fantasy', as they said above, its an oxymoron. Seduction is another matter entirely. Seduction is persuading another person to have sex with you, and presumably persuasion is necessary because there is some reluctance on one person's part. I personally am not adverse to having my boundaries pushed a little, or to being challenged by a guy, and that ambivalence leads to a sense of uncertainty that is kinda thrilling, could be thought of as dangerous, makes the encounter a little more charged than usual, and i might fantasise about that..... But its not rape, because on a fundamental level, i consent.

There are a lot of people out there who want to absolve themselves of their actions by choosing to think that the person they assaulted 'deserved' it, or 'wanted' it. Women might fantasise about a pleasurable experience where someone sweeps them off their feet, but they dont want to be assaulted and beaten and violated and degraded and exploited any more then men do.

[Anonymous]

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The topic?

The original question in this board is not disturbing. If women actually have rape fantasies, it’s a good question to wonder “why?” I find it to be an interesting topic. However, I think maybe that was not the exact question, and I misunderstood it. Maybe the question was, “Women, how does the abundance of men having rape fantasies, and reading disgusting manga while you stand next to them on the trains in Japan, affect you and how do you feel about it?” And to all, “what’s with it? I don’t get how these guys can be like this.”

In this session, I’m mostly interested in the topic of whether women have rape fantasies or not. Because, I believe they do, but the postings on this board seem to show some people are mixing the lines of actual rape, a women’s rape fantasy, and a man’s rape fantasy. And beyond those 3 basics, there are still many variations of fantasy related to “rape,” domination, and submissiveness that are not divided by lines of age, sex, or whether you’re gay, straight or bi. Therefore, let’s all try not to believe that just because some of us don’t take interest in something, or don’t think a certain way, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other people who think that way or have those interests.

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An Oxymoron?

From ‘Discomfiting thread,’ "having a fantasy implies a want, but rape is necessarily non-consensual. "Rape-fantasy" (where the fantasy is of being raped rather than raping) is thus essentially oxymoronic."

Yes, having a fantasy implies a want, or some imaginative desire. Thus, I find it an interesting topic to talk about the technicality of definitions of words. But, the reality is that rape fantasy does describe something that is real. If you check the listing of oxymoron on www.m-w.com, you will read, "a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness)." Yet, an oxymoron still carries meaning and is not necessarily something that is "not real," or that "doesn’t exist." Secondly, the listing for fantasy, "2. the free play of creative imagination" suggests that rape fantasy is not an oxymoron. However, I wondered if the word "unrealistic" in, "5. the power or process of creating especially unrealistic or improbable mental images in response to psychological need [...]," gave power to the idea that it is technically an oxymoron. However, I believe technically it is not. But, I do believe there is meaning associated with the two words that are contradictory, thus I do not dismiss the theoretical view of it being an oxymoron. I do not discredit ‘Discomfiting thread’ for his or her viewpoint; I find it interesting. But I would like to open the mind of those who think rape fantasy does not also exist among women.

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Some quick points

*Rape fantasy for men is different than that for women.
*I believe the number of women who have rape fantasies is not as high as some men wrongfully believe.
*I think that the abundance of Japanese “rape porn,” “rape manga,” and the great interest in these things that too many men have, is very disturbing. Yet, in a safe way, if two people want to participate together in some level of role-playing a rape fantasy, that is there own choice. And it’s hard to deny that people who have those interests do not exist.
*Women do have what are called rape fantasies, but it is not actually a desire to really be raped.

*RAPE IS TERRIBLE. RAPE IS HORRIBLE *
*NO WOMEN ACTUALLY WANTS TO BE RAPED*
*NO MAN SHOULD ACTUALLY COMMIT RAPE AS A FULFILMENT OF FANTASY*

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Interesting Quotes

[want a page with links to all these sites? Go here: http://www.spinshot.net/misc/rapefantasy.html#quote ]

Note: If you link to an article to read all of it, you should not assume that I share all of the exact beliefs and viewpoints of the author. However, all of them have good points and interesting topics.

"We are using the word 'rape' in two radically different ways."

"It's play-acting. You play-act with someone who is your friend, someone you TRUST. "

"She is ... in TOTAL control. In a real life rape, she is DENIED control. That's why real rape is horrific, and fantasy is not."

http://shack.bianca.com/shack/jukebox/posts/2000_Sep_19/229/272.html
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"...we were talking about, of all things, rape. She said she was constantly thinking about it. ... Why? Rape is horrible[!]... She said that's NOT the kind of rape she's talking about but...like a "fantasy rape".

http://shack.bianca.com/shack/jukebox/posts/2000_Sep_19/229/229.html
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"...many women have rape fantasies. However, these women do not want their fantasies to become reality. In her rape fantasy, the woman has complete control."

http://www.azwestern.edu/psy/dgershaw/lol/Rapemyths.html
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"Rape fantasies are extremely common among both women and men. Rape fantasies are essentially fantasies of sexual submission -- the desire to cede control to another person, or to have someone else take the dominant role.

There is a WORLD of difference between having a rape fantasy and acting it out in reality. A person with a fantasy of being raped does not really want to be raped. "

http://www.deviantdesires.com/askme/rape.html
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"Kevin: Surely, there are differences between men and women regarding rape fantasies, and the ideas that go on during these fantasies?

Patricia: In terms of rape fantasies, it's interesting that in the seventies women were reporting that they were engaging in rape fantasies.... Whereas nowadays I think women are certainly still engaging in rape fantasies, but..."

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Sex/sexpsych/sexual_fantasies/interview_solway.htm
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[Anonymous]

"There is no way a woman may fantasize about being raped by (an) ugly stranger(s) with halitosis..."

So there are no masochistic women in the world who would get off being abused? I believe you misunderstand the difference between your version of "normal" and reality. There are a whole lot of "normal" looking people who have some of the mos unconventioal ideas when it comes to sex...

[Anonymous]

my daddy shoot people

[Anonymous]

Shuddup,

What do you get so upset about? Perhaps you are one of those who
match the profile.

[smallworld]

Jeremy,
'Women do have what are called rape fantasies, but it is not actually a desire to really be raped.'
Makes sense. So while you may not agree that 'rape fantasy' is an oxymoron (and I still think it is), you do admit that the term isn't exactly correct. So what would be a better term for it?

'In this session, I’m mostly interested in the topic of whether women have rape fantasies or not.'
Well, I can't speak for all women, but I've certainly never had rape fantasies. I've had dreams about being raped, but those were definately nightmares, nothing sexy about them (and anyway, dreams are different from fantasies).

[Anonymous]

Smallworld,

My friend and I were talking about this... We also wondered, "what would be a better term?" Maybe, "loss of control fantasy"? Just one stab we took at coming up with something different....

As for your point on dreams, I share the same view.

Jeremy

[Anonymous]

FWIW,

I once had a girlfriend who requested just such a 'rape fantasy'. I do not know why. It may well have been that she thought it might satisfy *me*. I could not do it, and felt utterly disgusted. And it led to a huge fight, and a period of not talking for a few days.

We were together for 2+ years, and it's unrelated to Japan... this is back home, more than 10 years ago. We remain close friends to this day, though we've never discussed this particular matter. I have huge doubts that she was ever raped or molested in childhood--I may be wrong, but I know her quite thoroughly (she is one of my best friends).

At the time of her request, I was under the complete impression that it was what *she* wanted. I had never wondered "why" till I came across this post. At that time, I just stood there in shock and disbelief... Thinking it over now, I do believe it was a fantasy of her own. I cannot reason out Why, and I too *do* think that some women, regardless of their minority, may have a fascination with simulated-rape. If it does *not* have anything to do with childhood abuse, I too would be interested to know why.

Also fwiw, and if it hasn't already been made clear, I too abhor rape and any form of sexual manipulation. Viewing such events on tv, or even reading about them, makes my adrenaline pump: I want to beat the living pulp out of the men performing such acts. I have seen more than I care to see of this very type of Japanese pornography, and it disturbs me alot (as does the prevalence of red light shops everywhere one goes).... I believe rather strongly that most sexual manipulation is a result of problems *men* have in any given society. Giving benefit of the doubt to the original poster asking his question (I assume he is male), I also believe that sexual manipulation can be either a result or a misplaced dissatisfaction of females (much as the dissatisfaction of men) though I don't think this influence is quite as strong.

I, too, would like to know why some women seem to be turned on by 'rape fantasies', and I am not convinced that all of them have had childhood traumas. Flame me if you must, but I would rather appreciate a genuine perusal--just because one, and maybe most women have never felt this urge (I am NOT criticizing you), I'd sure like to know why my girlfriend wanted it at that time. And NO, hell no!, I am not going to ask her why now--that level of intimacy is not excusable in our present relationship.

-fubar

[Anonymous]

Jeremy- smashing job on the research. Everything sounds on target.
My original intent was to get the opinions/experience of women, in the interest of current accuracy.
I did a little research too. I spoke to a Sociology professor that specializes in sex (a woman), and she said that rape fantasys are not uncommon. However, it must be emphasized that there is a distinction between fantasy (safe) and desire (dangerous). This is even recognized in some courts of law. It can be seen as a continum of thought-fantasy-desire-action. Desire is something that will happen if the right circumstances arise, whereas fantasy will not. Admittedly, it can be a very thin, fuzzy, dangerous line at times.
As for why (my words)- well why does anyone have any sexual fantasy or desire or action? And is it 'right' or 'ok'? It ranges the full spectrum. Some people are curious or self destructive or ____ed up or whatever. Some people also 'want' things that are not very good for them. For example, some people 'enjoy' self-mutilation. It gets very complicated. Again the potential for projection, manipulation, abuse, etc, is very high with rape fantasys.
As for the terminology, it depends on how you take it- as anyone whos seen Chris Rock's butter/______ routine knows. I don't see a problem with "Rape Fantasy". But some people will equate fantasy with desire and cause trouble- but hey, we can't live for the stupid people. -aj

[reepo]

Results of a survey in a leading adult mag,Womans #1 fantasy-Make love to another woman.
With or without their partner.
#2　　　　　-Have anal sex
#3 -Have sex with 2 men
#4 -Be gang raped
Believe it or not.Up to you.

[smallworld]

Not.

[Anonymous]

Reepo,

I guess you picked up the wrong mag. That was probably for men. Suposing it was a women's magazine, you mustn't take them too seriously. After all, even those women who don't have this kind of "sophisticated" fantasies can be titillated into buying such crap which talks about fantasizing re: being gang raped or having anal sex, which means good money for magazines like Cosmopolitan or the such.

[Hiyodori]

The missing link from this discussion is actual scientific data, replaced instead by what people "want" the answer to be. I have known two women who have told me about having a fantasy of being "raped", and that was the word that they used, but neither of them wanted to experience a real criminal rape, or course. It was much more complex, and related to complete, total submission, at least for a time, to another's sexual desires, with the caveat that there is total trust between the two participants.

There are scientific papers and books published on women's sexual fantasies. One mass market publication entitled "My Secret Garden: Women's Sexual Fantasies"
by Nancy Friday (ISBN 0671271016) covers much ground in this area, and though written 30 years ago, is worth reading if one is at all interested in this subject. Here is a quote from an Amazon.com review:

"This book caused quite a ruckus when it was released 25 years ago because it directly quotes the sexual fantasies of dozens of women, ranging from the "very common" rape fantasy to lesbian affairs to unusually explicit scenarios that are unmentionable here. While author Nancy Friday maintains that My Secret Garden served to free millions of women from sexual oppression, there's still a need today to get rid of the guilt that millions more still feel when it comes to fantasizing, having orgasms, and making one's sexual wishes be known. "How could it be, you might ask," she writes, "that women today, at the turn of the century, would still think they were the only Bad Girls with erotic thoughts? What kind of prison is this that that women impose on themselves?"

Cheers