RACE RELATIONS: Something to think about. Complex reality;wh

[Chairo]

THIS IS AN INTELLIGENT AND VERY GOOD REFLECTION OF THE REALITY OF AT LEAST ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT OF RELATIONSHIPS BEWEEN WHITES AND BLACKS - AND SOME OTHER MINORITY RACES. I GOT IT FROM <://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/1822/power1.html>

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE SIMPLY CANNOT BE DISPUTED. IT IS SOMETHING WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND BEFORE THEY EVEN TRY TO START CRITICIZING A BLACK PERSON COMPLAINING ABOUT RACISM.

I think that this is a very powerful statement, you might like to read - This article appeared in the Baltimore Sun newspaper and was written by a white professor at the U of Texas. "White people need to acknowledge benefits of unearned privilege" By Robert Jensen BALTIMORE: Here's what white privilege sounds like: I'm sitting in my University of Texas office, talking to a very bright and very conservative white student about affirmative action in college admissions, which he opposes and I support. The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that being white has advantages in the United States. Have either of us, I ask, ever benefited from being white in a world run mostly by white people? Yes, he concedes, there is something real and tangible we could call white privilege. So, if we live in a world of white privilege - unearned white privilege - how does that affect your notion of a level playing field? I asked. He paused for a moment and said, "That really doesn't matter." That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: the privilege to acknowledge that you have unearned privilege but to ignore what it means. That exchange led me to rethink the way I talk about race and racism with students. It drove home the importance of confronting the dirty secret that we white people carry around with us every day: in a world of white privilege, some of what we have is unearned. I think much of both the fear and anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret. So these days, my goal is to talk openly and honestly about white supremacy and white privilege. White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege). Rather than try to tell others how white privilege has played out in their lives, I talk about how it has affected me. I am as white as white gets in this country. I am of northern European heritage and I was raised in North Dakota, one of the whitest states in the country. I grew up in a virtually all-white world surrounded by racism, both personal and institutional. Because I didn't live near a reservation, I didn't even have exposure to the state's only numerically significant nonwhite population, American Indians. I have struggled to resist that racist training and the racism of my culture. I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. But no matter how much I "fix" myself, one thing never changes - I walk through the world with white privilege. What does that mean? Perhaps most importantly, when I seek admission to a university, apply for a job, or hunt for an apartment, I don't look threatening. > Almost all of the people evaluating me look like me they are white. They see in me a reflection of themselves and in a racist world, that is an advantage. I smile. I am white. I am one of them. I am not dangerous. Even when I voice critical opinions, I am cut some slack. After all, I'm white. My flaws also are more easily forgiven because I am white. Some complain that affirmative action has meant the university is saddled with mediocre minority professors. I have no doubt there are minority faculty who are mediocre, though I don't know very many. As Henry Louis Gates Jr. once pointed out, if affirmative action policies were in place for the next hundred years, it's possible that at the end of that time the university could have as many mediocre minority professors as it has mediocre white professors. That isn't meant as an insult to anyone, but it's a simple observation that white privilege has meant that scores of second-rate white professors have slid through the system because their flaws were overlooked out of solidarity based on race, as well as on gender, class and ideology. Some people resist the assertions that the United States is still a bitterly racist society and that the racism has real effects on real people. But white folks have long cut other white folks a break. I know, because I am one of them. I am not a genius as I like to say, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have been teaching full time for six years and I've published a reasonable amount of scholarship. Some of it is the unexceptional stuff one churns out to get tenure, and some of it, I would argue, is worth reading. I worked hard, and I like to think that I'm a fairly decent teacher. Every once in a while, I leave my office at the end of the day feeling like I really accomplished something. When I cash my paycheque, I don't feel guilty. But, all that said, I know I did not get where I am by merit alone. I benefited from among other things, white privilege. That doesn't mean that I don't deserve my job, or that if I weren't white I would never have gotten the job. It means simply that all through my life, I have soaked up benefits for being white. All my life I have been hired for jobs by white people. I was accepted for graduate school by white people. And I was hired for a teaching position by the predominantly white University of Texas, headed by a white president, in a college headed by a white dean and in a department with a white chairman that at the time had one nonwhite tenured professor. I have worked hard to get where I am, and I work hard to stay there. But to feel good about myself and my work, I do not have to believe that "merit" as defined by white people in a white country, alone got me here. I can acknowledge that in addition to all that hard work, I got a significant boost from white privilege. At one time in my life, I would not have been able to say that, because I needed to believe that my success in life was due solely to my individual talent and effort. I saw myself as the heroic American, the rugged individualist. I was so deeply seduced by the culture's mythology that I couldn't see the fear that was binding me to those myths. Like all white Americans, I was living with the fear that maybe I didn't really deserve my success, that maybe luck and privilege had more to do with it than brains and hard work. I was afraid I wasn't heroic or rugged, that I wasn't special. I let go of some of that fear when I realized that, indeed, I wasn't special, but that I was still me. What I do well, I still can take pride in, even when I know that the rules under which I work in are stacked to my benefit. Until we let go of the fiction that people have complete control over their fate that we can will ourselves to be anything we choose then we will live with that fear. White privilege is not something I get to decide whether I want to keep. Every time I walk into a store at the same time as a black man and the security guard follows him and leaves me alone to shop, I am benefiting from white privilege. There is not space here to list all the ways in which white privilege plays out in our daily lives, but it is clear that I will carry this privilege with me until the day white supremacy is erased from this society. Dawn/LAT-WP News Service (c) Baltimore Sun. > > The writer is a professor of journalism. Donald Tomaskovic-Devey Co-Editor,Contemporary Sociology Sociology, North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-8107 voice 919 515 9022 fax 919 515 2610 919-515-9022 (voice) 919-515-2610 (fax) don@server.sasw.ncsu.edu

Chairo

[Kent Brockman]

Guilty as charged, it's a fair cop, guv'ner.


"TOOT TOOT, HERE COMES THE WHITE GRAVY TRAIN, ALL ABOOOOOAAARD"


So... uuhh.. how much do I owe you Mr Chairo? Would one wife suffice?

[Bluedog]

Something to think about before posting:

Paragraphs.

[Kent Brockman]

Bluedog, I sense a RACIST UNDERTONE to your post...

BLACK PEOPLE don't owe ANYONE a "paragraph"...the implication exposes your thinking as racist against the original poster... WHOM YOU KNOW IS OF COLOUR.





-Kent "Brackman" (Gaijinpot Race Relations Conciliator Elect)

[Bugboy]

Chairo!...................NOT AGAIN!!!???









...............why don't you try MalcomX.com!? they must have a forum there!

[imTony]

Chairo,

You are turning the relationships forum into the race forum.

Please try to keep it lighthearted man; we aren't in the position to change society.

Besides, you can see that these peoples' opinions are already formed.

No offence, okay?

[Chairo]

im Tony

When I tried to have a polite discussion about race with `Are Japanaese women colour blind` I got wrongly accused of being a racist by people that sound like racists. I mean go back and look at the tone of my initial postings there.

Since they wish to go down that road that is all about racism then I shall educate them with some home truths. Indisputable home truths.

You are right these people do seem to have made up their minds still I would like to say my piece. Do not make the mistake of thinking I think I will change their minds with my postings.

My direct response to `I am turning the relationships forum into a race forum`. Crazy, isn`t it me doing that. Not as crazy as what slavery did to blacks in the US. Not as crazy as what happened to the Aborigines in Australia. Not as crazy as what Hitler did to Jews. Not as crazy as what white Americans (actually back then they were not even Americans) did to Native Americans; the REAL Americans. Not as crazy as what women in most moslem countries have to go through on a daily basis.

You think what I am doing is wrong, let`s you are right. (Personally I do not think so). What I am doing is nothing compared to what goes on in this world.

Look around you im Tony. People have been doing atrocious things for decades and getting away with it. I start a thread that simply is related to racism that I believe I am subjected to and then I get accused of being a racist.

The very least I will do if I want - call me crazy - is write about the real racist and I will do it wherever I want and in whatever way I see fit.

Those that do not like it ...... sue me.

im Tony your postings are always polite and you do make an effort to make a valid point; this posting is not meant to offend you either. It is just how I see this.

Chairo

[Dr.Drew]

News Flash: Slavery is still alive and well in Africa...and Whites have nothing to do with it. One could say that it's the worst form of Black on Black crime out there...

[imTony]

atrocious? seems strong...

I never meant to imply that what you were doing was atrocious. And comparing this to mass genocide/slavery is ludicrous! Come on... not much is as radical or "crazy" as those things. hahaha, you could defend nearly anything doing that!

All I'm saying is that your first post had to do with race and *relationships.* You surely had the right to ask that question, it was fair and honest. It was wrong for you to get attacked like you did. I'm sorry, but it is already done. Now, it only seems to be about race. It just misses the point of this part of the forums, ya know? It isn't fair to others who aren't involved in this purely racial debate. Of course one could just ignore it, but that's beside the point.

I'm not trying to deny you of your opinion, it is just that this isn't really relative to this part of the forum. Also... bitter tongues might drive others away.

I am not offended, I just don't want this to get out of hand.

Just like in day-to-day Japanese life, you want to keep harmony. =)

[Chairo]

Dr. Drew,


I have never said white people - some not all - are the only people that are guilty when it comes to slavery.

There is black on black crime, yes.
There is white on white crime.
And the list goes on.

Then you have the crime of what `rich America/the American government` is doing to poor America. By poor America I mean all Americans;white,black whatever.

There is a lot of crap going on out there. I have never claimed white on black racism is the only `disease` out there.

At the time of real slavery there were some incidents of black people selling other blacks to white slave traders. Abhorrent on the part of both white and black participants. However you cannot escape the level to which white people took slavery.

White people turned it into an international trade that has resulted in a situation whereby the dead forefathers of blacks in America contributed - for free; forcefully - to building America into the economic giant that it is today. Yet their living descendants today are `denied` a fair shot in society that their forefathers were murdered for.

The US Supreme Court that ruled to sustain Affirmative Action were aware of what you think is a `newsflash` and still voted to keep Affirmative Action.

I wonder why, Dr. Drew? Tell me something I do not know.

Chairo

[Bugboy]

That's everyone's point but Chairo does not seem to understand.

[Dr.Drew]

Chairo,

I respect your point of view, however "White people" is a pretty general term.

If you mean to say the Whites who were responsible for perpetuating slavery, you can't say White People, as it's far too broad a categorization.

You could say:


Whites of largely British/Spanish/Portuguese/or Dutch descent, who happen to come from moneyed families of Old Europe. Those people would be descended from wealthy merachants and Land Owners, and thus would actually rule out a sizeable number of Whites currently hailing from the North American continent.

In fact, my ancestors came from Ireland to the States, after the Civil War. Far from being slaveowners or traders, they in fact faced discrimination and outright bigotry.

Should they be responsible for slavery? I don't think so. They never owned a slave, and didn't even live in the US during those dark days.

[Chairo]

im Tony
I did not claim you accused me of anything `atroucios`. Far from it.

What I said was that atrocious things like - genocide,slavery,racism etc - are part of our reality. A lot of the utterances/acts of some blatantly encourage this.

Me talking about what happened with regards to the threads I started and how that is RELATED TO/IS racism is not the same as saying what happened with `my` threads is of the same gravity as `all racism - including slavery` or `genocide`. Yes, doing so what be absolutely ludicrous.

I am not `comparing`, I am saying it is `part of`. There is a gulf of difference.


The bulk of your last posting is talking about `convention`. What I am doing now is not conventionally what this forum is for. I agree with you im Tony.

The `convention` in the countries where a lot of us foreigners in Japan come from is for police men to falsely arrest,frame and imprison minorities; mainly blacks. What that means is you are going about your daily life without doing anything criminal - this being the `conventional` and right thing to do - and you still get screwed over. Guess why this happens to these unfortunate blacks? It happens simply because the racists can simply get away with it. The utterances of some of the people that posted under my threads also play their part in sustaining this `racist` hatred.

The picture you are looking at looks somewhat like this : `You are being unfair to people that come here to discuss issues other than race.` (Meanwhile reading the comments of SOME of these people you can see that they could not care less what is happening to minorities that live amongst them.)

The picture I am looking at : `I know what the `conventional` use of this forum is. Despite that, largely because of the apathy/downright racist comments of others at this forum I am going to write about a more important issue. Why? Because IT IS more important and because I can. It is a shame people like yourself might be disturbed at the same time.

You wrote <bitter tongues might drive others away>. At least they can `drive away and go home`. `Bitter racism has driven many an innocent black man to the gas chamber`



Chairo

(Not for one second am I suggesting all black men in prison are innocent. However I know the reality of the VERY SERIOUS injustice that a lot of black people go through and then end up in jail.)

[Chairo]

Dr. Drew,
Without a doubt your point is absolutely valid. I should have qualified that.

However I think by almost anybody's standards no one would think I hate EVERY WHITE PERSON.

As a matter of fact some of the people I have the most respect for are the whites that were brave enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with blacks during the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. This was at a time when whites like this knew that they stood to REALLY suffer by taking such a stance and they did suffer.

Despite the majority - probably - of white people back then doing all they could to sustain racism these white people thought for themselves and did the right thing.
I believe the film 'Mississipi Burning' is based on the true story of how three people were murdered by racists in the 50's or something. One of these three was a very brave white guy.

Guys like this white guy are my heros.

Peace

Chairo

[Shan]

Chairo, I have a suggestion. Why not channel all of this energy into doing something positive to stop the racism you abhor? You are in Japan now; just by interacting positively with Japanese people, you can begin to change any bad perceptions they have about black people, if indeed they do. I'll give you an example. As a young child during the time when Americans were kept hostage by a group of Iranians, I had no other image of Iranian people for most of my life other than radical Islamic, American-hating people. Several years ago, I had the opportunity to work in the same office with an Iranian woman in the U.S. We became friendly, had lunch together, etc. I remember thinking how happy I was to have met her, because I now had another view of Iranian people wholly different from the one with which I grew up. Rather than lecturing everyone on this board (most of your posts are honestly too long for me to read now), why don't you try to educate some people by interacting and speaking with them? Most Japanese people don't react well to anger, however, as you may have noticed. And by the way, Muslim countries are not the only ones in which women suffer injustices.

[Chairo]

Shan,
I do respect your comments that you contribute to the threads I have started.

However I find this your last one patronizing. What do you really know about how I interact with Japanese people in my day to day life?

Since you have raised the issue. Most people that come into contact with me love me. I work my heart out trying to be a good example of a person/black man in this country, I believe I achieve the results I am after.

The other day I was at one of my schools and saw five pictures on the wall; one of myself and four other foreign English teachers. Written across my picture only in Japanese was 'daisuki'. I cannot conclude why this was written on mine but I do suspect it is because I work so hard at my people skills. The kids at this school and the other schools I work at love me.

I go shopping and talk to everybody that will talk to me; I am always saying 'Hi' to the kids I see with other customers; customers that are complete strangers. Just yesterday I smiled at this 5 year old or so kid that was dressed in a lovely shirt and tie. I knelt down next to him and his mum coxed him into impressing me with his English skills. These kind of experiences make my day. Do you know how it feels when you try talking to people in a friendly manner like this and get given the cold shoulder? Maybe you do,I do not know. Me, I do and it is a complete downer. All sorts of ideas come into your head trying to explain why, 'That Japanese mother kept stopping her kid from talking to you'. I am a reasonable person and know there are a myriad of possible reasons. However I do know that racism might be one of them.

My supervisor told me he meets several people in town that say I am so easy to talk to. A Japanese girl in our town said I am respectful and reserved when it comes to women, she actually said I am Japanese-like with regards to women.

I am in the middle of starting a company now and I have a 38 year old Japanese partner. He has been in this line of business for 20 years and I do not believe he would want me as his partner unless he had seen I have a fair number of good qualities.

By the way I never claimed muslim women are the only women that suffer injustices. Why are you telling me what I know about non-muslim women that also suffer injustice?!

I could go on.

You wrote 'rather than lecture people on this board (most of your posts are honestly too long for me to read now)'.

I will lecture people in anyway I see fit. The same way so many people treat blacks like rubbish because they want to and can get away with it. If you find my postings about a subject I believe is worthwhile too long or negative in any other way - unless someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read them - continue not to read them.

I read loads of stuff I consider crap at gaijinpot. I do not complain, instead I read something else.

In an earlier post of yours you criticized me for FINALLY responding to the remarks of people that had said racist things to me. At the time my response to that post was apologetic more than anything else. What I wrote to you then was not EXACTLY how I felt but I was trying my hardest to be polite. I hate having to tell people they are wrong; I do it as a last resort. I mean I do not want to belittle what you have to go through being a gaijin woman but do you really think it is as serious as what I go through as a black person almost everywhere I go? We blacks get this wherever we are. When you have taken a walk in my shoes - which is more or less impossible - then come and tell me how to react to 'racism SPECIFICALLY AGAINST BLACKS.

I cannot be bothered to check if it was you that wrote the message I am talking about above, I think I am right though. If I am wrong please accept my sincerest apologies.

I do wish I did not have to write this kind of post but we will never live in a perfect world.

Peace to you

Chairo

[Shan]

Chairo,

I certainly did not mean to be patronizing. That was not my intention. I am very glad you are so well-liked at your school, though you really didn't need to toot your own horn quite so much. But I am beginning to agree with others on this board, that you just want to find fault with WHATEVER anyone else says. You are right that I don't know about your interactions with Japanese people, but with regards to Japanese people not reacting to you or talking to you when you smile at them on the street, many Japanese people do that with EVERYONE, not just black people!!!!!! It's not a Japanese custom to speak to and smile at people you don't know, especially not in Tokyo. Where I'm from in the US, when we walk around our neighborhood, we usually say hello to everyone we pass, even if we do not know them personally. I too often smile at children and pets in Japan, not because I'm trying to impress everyone with how likeable I am or how "Japanese" I can be, but because I like kids and dogs, and I find them to be one ray of "naturalness" among the usually pre-programmed reactions of Japanese people. Sometimes, people smile back and talk to me, sometimes they don't. I certainly don't take it personally, and I really DON'T think it's a racial matter. Japanese people just are not used to interacting with people to whom they have no previous connection or have not been formally introduced. My own father, who is a white American, walked around saying, "Hello" to all my neigbors when he visited me in Japan. Most people just giggled and walked away. Was that because they were racist? I don't think so. They just are not used to speaking to strangers, especially foreign ones.

Finally, with regards to "I do not want to belittle what you have to go through being a gaijin woman but do you really think it is as serious as what I go through as a black person almost everywhere I go?", I'm not going to have a "who's more discriminated against?" contest with you. You're right, I don't know what it's like to be a black person, but you also don't know what it's like to be a foreign woman in Japan. I'll tell you one thing though: if you start out assuming that everyone whom you encounter is racist, or everyone who doesn't react to you the way you want is racist, then you will likely encounter racist people anywhere you go. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do wonder if you would be satisfied with anyone.
PS-Does anyone besides me think Chairo is Westsan in disguise? I've noticed Westsan's distinctive absence recently...

[Chairo]

Shan,
You did not mean to be patronizing yet your post was advising me how to use my energy? Particularly I found <And by the way, muslim countries are not the only countries where women suffer injustice> particularly patronizing. I mean do you really think I do not know this? Believe me, my last angry post was your fault too.


Having said that I have reread your post again and you are somewhat right that I overreacted.

Prejudicial behaviour like sexism (that you probably are a victim of here in Japan;being a gaijin female) and racism can be seen as the perpetrators wanting to ASSERT that they are somewhat better than their victims. This is something I am fully aware of.

What you call 'tooting my own horn so much' is my counter to racism that tries to make out that I am inferior because my skin is black. It is the equivalent of a black person or woman having to try twice as hard to prove themselves in situations where racism or sexism might be the order of the day. Books about black struggles document this.

I wrote <'That Japanese mother kept stopping her kid from talking to you'. I am a reasonable person and know there are a myriad of possible reasons. However I do know that racism might be one of them.> The emphasis on '...a myriad of possible reasons.....'. Despite that you wrote that long first paragraph above saying all sorts of things that you think you know about how I interact with Japanese people? Constructive criticism - that I can handle very well - is not the same as finding fault where there is no fault.



I wrote that someone said I am Japanese-like and I believe she meant it as a compliment. I never said I DO GO AROUND TRYING TO FIND FAVOUR BY TRYING TO BE JAPANESE. You made that leap and concluded so yet they are two completely different things. I am a BLACK man in Japan and you think I would deliberately go around trying to be Japanese! There might be black men that do this but they are seriously misguided.


You know for a fact that I go around assumming everybody is a racist, do you? You have not even met me before.

Whatever you encounter in JAPAN cannot be as grave as what I encounter in JAPAN AND ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE. That you can take to the bank.

There are different people that have responded to my threads. These groups of people do not necessarily have to be those that say absolutely ridiculous things about me and those that absolutely support me. A lot of what you wrote in your last post sounds like you are just trying to say anything to make me look bad. You do not have to agree with all I say or do but at the same time you do not have to cross over to the side of those that say things that are more or less just rubbish; now you think I am Westsan? Isn't this guy married?

I have read your posts and I do not think that you really want to join the ranks of these people.

Peace

Chairo

ps: If you do reply this and it is in a manner that suggests you want to continue in the tone of your last post that is fine. Me I do not want to write you another negative post. Take care.

Peace

[Shan]

Why are people who disagree with you only "negative" Chairo? I think some of Bongo's crap was very negative, but perhaps you take things a little too personally. I only want to say, don't think you are the most wronged, discriminated against person in Japan until you have experienced the reality of every other person in Japan. Your claim that "Whatever you encounter in JAPAN cannot be as grave as what I encounter in JAPAN AND ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE. That you can take to the bank" might be disputed by some people of Korean or Chinese ancestry living in Japan. You don't have a monopoly on being discriminated against in Japan, or the rest of the world, for that matter.

[Bongo]

Oh, don't be so negative, Shan.

[Chairo]

Shan,
I do not understand your first question; I count someone saying racists things to me as 'negative'. Saying that person is 'negative' per se is another story.

I take things too personal? Yes, I do when it comes to the colour of my skin. My skin colour and any discrimination that that causes I take very personal.

It would be nice if you did not put words into my mouth, I have never claimed I am the most wronged/discriminated person in Japan:

First, I am not talking about just Japan. This started as a topic about a not as serious a race thread as it has now turned into. (The initial topic was somewhat limited to Japan) I got some reactions I believe to be very inappropiriate; racist reactions. So I decided to turn it into a topic that is about pure race. Anyone that reads my subsequent pure race posts will clearly see I am talking about racism against blacks on a global level. I have talked about racism in general and thrown in some of my own experiences as well. I have never said I am the most wronged person in Japan ever. Why put words into my mouth? It does not help anything. I have said something along the lines that in the eyes of most racists the black skin is at the bottom of the rung. That you might disaggree with but I believe I am right.

Read what I have written and you will see that the generalisations you made in your last post has nothing to do with what I believe.


I am aware of some of what some Korean and Chinese women have been through as a result of racism. There was even a bit about it in the news yesterday; about this brave Japanese man that chose of his own free will to stand up in court and admit he raped Chinese women during the war decades ago.

Are you a Korean Chinese gaijin woman? This is gaijinpot; I will not be too far off in saying most people that come here to talk are from the West, I think in one of your posts you said you were white. I could be wrong here. The point being I wrote the bit about comparing what you might have to go through as a gaijin woman compared to the racism a black person suffers on the basis that you are not,say, Korean or Chinese.

Of course even if you are a white Westerner you might have suffer more discrimination as a gaijin woman here in Japan than I have suffered racism but I strongly doubt it.

If we were to think it was of any benefit to see who has suffered more discrimination and I realised I was wrong I would admit it. Frankly speaking I think it is a worthless exercise.

I compared the two believeing you were a white Westerner and I really do hate sexism against women. (One of the reasons why Islam does not sit too well with me. I was born one. I have met several that preach that they hold women in high esteem yet the practice a lot of the time is the opposite. One of the LEAST DIRE forms of discrimination that Saudi Arabian women face is NOT BEING ALLOWED TO DRIVE BY LAW.) However I know for a fact - especially if talking about the world and not just Japan that the chances of a Western woman having suffered more dire sexism than a black man that has come in contact with serious physical/mental racism are slim. This does sound somewhat pompous and selfish but I believe it to be true and so do a lot of white authors. I repeat ,that you can take to the bank. (I would probably include BLACK WOMEN here too; racists seem to find black men much more threatening than black women so they go after black men.)

If you were an Arab woman that had lived in Saudi Arabia most of the time I would not make the comparison that I made. Generally speaking what a lot of these women suffer at the hands of their men is worse than the racism blacks suffer. Being beheaded simply because you had sex is way way up there on the scale of the most abhorrent AND EVIL things that these women go through. Meanwhile the men that had sex with them tend to go scot free. Whether sexism or racism the GENERAL COMPARISON depends a lot on location and the people being compared.

Peace to you.

Chairo



ps: I have just seen that you have recently - today? - contributed a fair number of posts to those threads I started, I wonder what opinions of yours await me.

[tryfan]

Get your "facts" right. In Saudi Arabia women are stoned, not beheaded. Usually by toppling a wall of stones onto them, or emptying a dump truck.
Men are beheaded for adultry, but there must be a witness to the act for the parties to be convicted, and 4 women's testimony = 1 man's. You can take that to the bank.
Adulterous men who have caught in the act, shot and critically wounded by the woman's husband have been treated in hospital, then taken out to be beheaded. Justice must be seen to be done.
Stick to writing about racism, you at least seem to know something about that.

Interestingly in Arabia, women can divorce men, return to their family and remarry, with much less stigma than in Japan.

Wouldn't tell too many people that you used to be Muslim - in many parts of the Middle East they are entitled to kill you - it is called apostasy - for renoucing your faith.

[Bongo]

Chairo will constructively ignore you now, tryfan because you called BS on him.

You expose Chairo as an ignorant racist bigot and you feel his wrath when he err .... refuses to admit he's been rumbled.

Peace to you all too.

Bongo

[Chairo]

Tryfan
So I might have got some of my facts wrong however the essence - the abhorrent way women are treated in Saudi Arabia sometimes - of what I wrote is absolutely accurate. By YOU writing <....,and 4 women's testimony = 1 man's> YOU actually proved my point!

You really sound like you just want to find fault with whatever I write good luck to you. Even when there is obviously no fault to be found; as far as a fair person is concerned that is.

The more nonsensical messages like yours that pop up in response to mine the more assured I get that I must be doing something right.

From now I am going to completely ignore messages like this. If a message has any substance and I have the time I will respond.

Chairo

[Bongo]

See?

Well, at least he admitted that he ignores people who expose him as a serial bulshitter.

[Bugboy]

Chairo wrote:

>You really sound like you just want to find fault with whatever I write good luck to you. Even when there is obviously no fault to be found; as far as a fair person is concerned that is.

The more nonsensical messages like yours that pop up in response to mine the more assured I get that I must be doing something right.

From now I am going to completely ignore messages like this. If a message has any substance and I have the time I will respond.

Chairo,

I don't mean to disrespect you but, or you are totally stupid or you just don't care to sound stupid....

You maintain that your cause is noble and that these threads/discussions will lead to a positive thing as a result of talking about it > However you openly declare that you are only open to posts that grant consent to your opinions.

You want people to understand your point of view and to listen to what you have to say > yet everytime somebody respond to your post in a contrary way, you either ignore them or insult them...

...and coming to this, everytime somebody says something that shows you are being wrong in what you say or the way you say it > you dodge the bullet and ignore the whole post. (you can't even face your mistakes for god sake!)


PS: you can also stop those nonsense threads (i.e: Bongo the antelope whatever...and soembody might find this useful even th) because there is nothing OOhh soo clever to it, trust me!

good day to you smarty

...so seriously please Chairo, read all your soooo valuable thread and realise how many people see through you now.
and decide to either stop making a fool of yourself or face the debate in a clever way.

[Shan]

Chairo,

I will repeat: don't try to judge a man (or woman) or what they have to go through until you've walked a mile in his or her shoes (and in the case of women, if you walk a mile in our high heels, you might sympathize with us more.) You say, "If we were to think it was of any benefit to see who has suffered more discrimination and I realised I was wrong I would admit it. Frankly speaking I think it is a worthless exercise" and then you say "However I know for a fact - especially if talking about the world and not just Japan that the chances of a Western woman having suffered more dire sexism than a black man that has come in contact with serious physical/mental racism are slim. This does sound somewhat pompous and selfish but I believe it to be true and so do a lot of white authors. I repeat ,that you can take to the bank."

Does this seem contradictory to you? I don't really care to quantify who has suffered more discrimination either. My point in bringing up women and other minorities, particularly Asian ones, living in Japan, is that I don't think you should state unequivocally that black people, you included, have suffered much more than others. You have not lived others' lives, so I don't see how you can make that statement. You have not seen all societies all over the world.

I think you're a person who sees the world in black and white (no pun intended): you're right, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. There's a lot of gray out there too, Chairo, a lot of gray.

[Bongo]

It's easy to blame society for injustices. It's a convenient way of answering the question

"Hey, why am I not rich and successful with a beautiful girlfriend like the people on TV?"

and then a process happens where that person reasons -

"Well, I think I'm smart and intelligent, I'm articulate too. And I got a B+ in business studies. So ... it MUST be because of DISCRINMINATION or RACISM that I'm not the person I want to be ... "

And then they start a one man crusade against all the evil stuff they think they have been victims of.

Have YOU ever been mistakenly murdered by a white police officer colleague?
Have YOU ever been discriminated against in the UK for a job?

If you have it's become very easy for you to get redress (at least for the second one).

Or is it that you're desperately looking for someone or something to blame because you're not the person you see in the movies?

Chairo, when you're a bit older, you'll realise that TV isn't real. Those fresh-faced happy people you see in the adverts don't really have those hassle-free lifestyles. In the real world, they face the same injustices as you.

Chairo, lifes not fair to any of us. That's the way it is. Don't confuse it with discrimination, because it's not. If you're not happy about life, do something about it.

... after all this planet is overcrowded as it is.

[Chairo]

Shan
You and I talking about `Who has ACTUALLY suffered more discrimination?` is an absolute waste of time.


If people had not FALSELY claimed I was saying I was the `most discriminated against person in the world` . . . or something along those lines I wouldn`t have made the mistake of trying to answer the question above.

Maybe you as an individual have suffered more discrimination than me, I REALLY DO NOT KNOWN.

Maybe millions of Korean and Chinese women have suffered much more discrimination than me.

The point is anybody that wants to be fair and is not just looking to be pedantic,just find any phantom excuse to knock my argument etc will see that what my posts are trying to say is there is loads of crap out there that cause suffering to women,blacks,whites etc.

Yes, I have centred on black racism victims because of personal experiences and because this whole thing started with racist slurs about blacks.

I am not going to continue this line of thought because IMHO it is pointless.

Peace to you

Chairo

[Chairo]

`I should kill myself?`

Huh?

Chairo

[Bugboy]

I won't stop you.......you're an idiot it's that simple

[the dude]

Bongo,

You finally said something that makes sense. 君を見直した。
Although the suggesting he does himself in is out of line.

[DannyBoy]

Everyone from mono-race countries poo poos the countries that have racial tensions, but atleast they have multiple races. I work in America. In my team of 7, 2 are Indian and 1 is Pakistani. All are on visas. Yeah, people like to put America down, but take a closer look and you will see some of our loftier ideals of old are still in practice. These ideals and opportunities were implemented and are supported by people of all races and both sexes in America -- and that includes white males. Don't try to make all of us out to be villains or your logic fails you with the same broad strokes as that of a racist.

[the dude]

Chairo,

YOU are a racist. I am of mixed ethnic groups but I don't go around yelling "you're not appreciating me because I'm of a certain orgin," and I don't EVER mention color. There aren't any races as far as I'm concerned. You saying someone owes someone for being born a certain color or "Japanese colored blind" (which is a racial doragatory statement towards Japanese) is only making the problem worse!
Do us all a favor and talk about something cool. Like hot chicks or orgies or something...

[Chairo]

Danny Boy,
I hear you.
I have never ever claimed that what I am saying applies to all. To start with that would be a lie and stupid.

America just so happens to be such a great influence all over the world. That is why I tend to use 'American' examples.

I have the utmost respect for Americans - and all others - that try their best to do the right thing; whether it is to do with racism or not.

Peace

Chairo.

[Chairo]

the dude

You wrote:

<Bongo,

You finally said something that makes sense........... >

I agree with you; even you his fellow idiot knows that despite having posted so much at these threads - AT LEAST up untill now, he has made no sense.

Nice going guys.

Chairo

[Chairo]

the dude

That is your opinion.

You know what they say about opinions?

Opinions are like arseholes; everybody has got one.

Take care ...... dude.

Chairo

[Chairo]

the dunce ...... I meant ...... dude,

You are of mixed ethnic group and ...... very mixed up too.

When you look at everything I have written you will see that what you are claiming is wrong.

Write something ......'cool' and 'dude-like' in response to this post; I dare you to resist.

Me? I am just going to ignore you.


Chairo



ps: I think Bongo's father is his grandfather.

[the dude]

Idiot? Moi? I'm by far the smartest out of anyone who would ever even consider responding to your babble. Despite your anger, try not to make enemies w/ everyone brah. Whether it's in person or just a bbs...

[Bongo]

Chairo wrote:

`I should kill myself?`

Huh?

Chairo

Well, you've just shown us for the first time that you're not as stupid as you sound. It took a few minuted though didn't it?

Shan, if you criticize him again and he'll start ignoring you. Especially if you have a valid argument.

[Shan]

Chairo,
You and I talking about `Who has ACTUALLY suffered more discrimination?` is an absolute waste of time.


My point exactly. So why then do you insist on saying:

"However I know for a fact - especially if talking about the world and not just Japan that the chances of a Western woman having suffered more dire sexism than a black man that has come in contact with serious physical/mental racism are slim. This does sound somewhat pompous and selfish but I believe it to be true and so do a lot of white authors. I repeat ,that you can take to the bank." and

"Of course even if you are a white Westerner you might have suffer more discrimination as a gaijin woman here in Japan than I have suffered racism but I strongly doubt it."??

[Bugboy]

Chairo trys desperatly to get new posters on his side.......(Dannyboy) unfortunatly everyone can easily see through him...HHHHaAAaaa



Actually, the dude made a very good point, too bad you just can't get it.





..........Not only you are an idiot but you are a pathetic as well!

well done again chairo!


PS: I really look forward each day to read your rubbish

[Bongo]

I don't actually look forward to it anymore. I feel like I'm walking behind the Tourettes kid tripping him up without listening to what he's saying. I'm bored of this.

And he uses 'somewhat' too much. Just like rednecks use "heough!" too much.

Unless Chairo has somewhat anything more he'd like to somewhat address to me personally or anything else he'd somewhat like me to pummel him for, I'm somewhat done with the Chairo Supertard.

[Chairo]

Shan,

You have asked me this question - put in a different way - before and I answered it.
It is convenient for you to try and muddy the waters; you keep asking me these questions and conveniently refuse to answer mine honestly.

You lack the integrity to admit that you wrote a pretty hostile post to me PLUS it was hypocritical. I even admitted that I was part to blame for the whole situation. Meanwhile you do not want to admit your part in the matter.

You talked about withdrawing your support for. Frankly speaking I would prefer the support of someone with more integrity.

Shan, I am done with this. Go ahead and address your questions to thin air. I know exactly what you are doing; I have shown you up as a hypocrite and someone that has very illogical discussion skills. You keep asking me these stupid questions in a vain effort to prove to whoever that you can punch holes in my argument and thus salvage some of your 'lost face'.

Try what I do; stop trying to be liked so much and just do the right thing, irrespective of those that might protest. Check your history; so many people in life take stances that are unpopular but are later proved right.

Chairo

[Shan]

Well, I'm glad you've exposed me as such a hypocrite Chairo. I was unaware of that about myself, but now I know. I had no idea I was so full of malice and hypocrisy; thank you for pointing that out. I will now go hang my head and cry because I am such an evil person, and I will tell my family and friends that they are better off without me. Thank you, for pointing out something you gleaned from the internet, what other people who have known me in person for years and could not tell.

As for just trying to be liked, well, if I really feel strongly about something, as I do about many women's issues, I express my opinion and take a stand. I do so in a way I feel is respectful (most of the time), and I think it's possible to disagree with someone's opinion and still like the person and be friends. I'm not sure where you get that I'm just trying to be liked, but I think you just want to argue with everyone and turn them against you so that you can say everyone is against you and be a martyr. If not doing that is just trying to be liked, well, then, guilty as charged. If you actually knew me and my family, you would know that I readily express my opinions about things and grew up doing so. In fact, few things are more attractive or sexy to me than a man I can discuss and debate things with (not in this case though.)

[Shan]

Re-reading your post again, I just have to say "What the ****??" (That's "heck," of course. I'm a lady, after all.)

[Bluedog]

"I would prefer the support of someone with more integrity"

Ha. Good luck. If I was in your situation I'd be happy with whoever the **** (don't need no 'heck', coz I aint no lady) would step up to bat for you.


"Opinions are like arseholes; everybody has got one."

But not all of them stink.

[the dude]

Mine does. Especially this AM. Had a ton of Mexican food last night and washed each bite down w/ tequilla shots. Hope nobody notices!

[nipponbiki]

First of all, white people were slaves to the Romans way back in the day. Point is, probably every race has been a slave at some point or another, and every race has definitely been dominated by a foreign government at some point. And, every single human being from the beginning of time has been and will continue to be the victim of racism by somebody. No, its not a good thing, and though its not acceptable in the realm of theoretical morals, but as it is reality and it will never(or not for a very long time) change, then it is best to accept the fact that it exists and move on with life. I dont mean extreme racism where physical harm is involved or human rights not being recognized by a government. I mean the daily racism one encounters like not getting a certain job, or being ingnored on the street, etc.

Yes, as a white American, I feel very shameful about what happened to the Native Americans. In fact, during high school, when we were studying about it in history class, I renounced my race and hated everyone white for a while. The thing is when you look at history, almost every race has done basically the same thing at some point, so no matter who you want to identify with, there isnt any getting around it.

Second, do you realize that you blame all of your behaviour and thinking on everyone else? You take no credit for anything. That is a sad existence. Not living by your own will and just being in an existence of reaction has absolutely no meaning whatsoever, its the same as being an animal living by instinct. The fact that you live like this is in a way, continuing to be slave of the white man. You really should consider this point as I am not saying it to attack you, but to try to show you how it is beneath you as a thinking human being.

So, everyone is a victim of racism. I am tired of hearing about the slavery of blacks by American whites just because it happens to be the most recent time of slavery. And anyway, only the rich minority were able to afford the cost of not only buying slaves, but maintaining them, so why should every white person in America have to be responsible for something very few people were involved in. Could you imagine the reaction if some group of white people tried to sue Italy for slavery way back in the day? So, grow up and move on, and I say that as a friend. And carrying all this negative energy and feeding it by starting forums like this are in the end, only going to be to YOUR disadvantage. Rise above it already and get on with your life.

[Chairo]

Nipponbiki
I would like to respond to your post. I respect you not intending to attack me and I somewhat believe you. On the flipside I have no intention of attacking you but I will strongly question SOME of what you wrote.

I wonder whether in doing so I am going to be accused of `not listening to anyone else`s opinion`. Or `forcing my opinion on others`


Your first paragraph sounds right on the money. I am fully aware of all sorts of racism that has passed and still happens. I was the very first person - on one of these threads that I started - to specifically mention how blacks helped facilitate the slavery of blacks with white people by handing over their `own kind`.


I was also the preson here that mentioned how the `American govt/rich America that benefits so much from the defence industry and all that` end up getting poor America - blacks,whites,latinos whatever to do the real fighting i.e Iraq being a point in question. This might not be racism per se but it is just as bad.

You need to hear me castigate my own African country and its many criminal politicians. You can call that `balck on black racism`

I somewhat believe that if the black man had `discovered` ships and guns before the `white man` - some might say the black man did, do not want to go there - blacks might have tried to sail the waters and enslave whites. (I think way back white women were sold to Arabs? Not Africans but ....). The reason why I think so is that some men just cannot resist exercising some advantage/power over their fellow man. However in this `day and age` and `recent` history that you and I live the most serious (or one of the most serious; Shan might be reading this.) form of racism has been white on black. That is why most people - not just myself - that address racism tend to focus on white on black racism. Sounds expected, to me and a lot of people.

BESIDES THIS WHOLE THING STARTED BECAUSE I, A BLACK MAN, WAS SOMEWHAT `ATTACKED` WITH RACIST SLURS AND IT WAS ABSOLUTELY UNCALLED FOR.; I DID NOT ATTACK ANYBODY. READ THE FIRST POSTS AND SEE. I WAS NOT EVEN THE FIRST PERSON THAT `REALLY STRONGLY` COMPLAINED ABOUT SAID SLURS.

Your third paragraph; you wrote <Second, do you realize that you blame all of your behaviour and thinking on everyone else? .............>. Show me a quote from me that validates this opinion you have of me, can you? Not some general or pedantic statement, something concrete.

A lot of what I have been writing about is a reflection of the opinions of a lot of authors. Take Michael Moore`s book; `Stupid White Men .............`. Get this book - if you have not read it already - and read the chapter called `Kill Whitey`. Moore reckons that it would not be surprising if black men rose up and attacked white people.

So we could take your deep understanding of the dysfunctional way I live my day to day life with regards to how I believe people relate to my black skin (go back and read what you wrote) and apply it to Michael Moore. There will be one BIG problem though. The guy is white.


You are making a big leap from reading my posts to knowing exactly what I am like, don`t you think? You are making a big mistake in doing so. Your mistake is a reflection of what a lot of people that have opposed me at these threads have done. You are generalising. Read your opinion of me again. Then ask yourself this: Would you be allowed to stand up in court and give this DEEP opinion of me? Of course not! Largely because you have never met me.

Since you have raised the issue:

I get on fine with everybody. The few times that I am in a situation where I know racism is `afoot`, I react accordingly; sometimes strongly and sometimes not so strongly. I NEVER GET SERIOUS/OR REALLY GET ANGRY about racism unless I know that this `is racism`. Times when I suspect racism but am not sure I let ot go; I could give you at leats one specific example that happened a few months ago involving the word `______`. I just walked away.

In `my community` I have had serious `issues` with some people over racist/racist-related issues and probably lost `friends` as a result. . Some non-black friends (mainly white) that know my `normal not addressing racism issues` side hear about my `other side` and somewhat cannot understand how this guy that they know as a really nice guy can be like this, I have heard this said about me a few times.

What is the alternative? Be-nice-all-the-time-even-when-someone-is-questioning-my character-simply-because-of-the-colour-of-my-skin-BECAUSE-I-do-not-want-to-upset-the-apple-cart-because-I-wnat-everybody-to-love-me?

Doing that is not having principles. Being without integrity. Not being able to look yourself in the mirror. Not my style.

You sound quite reasonable. A lot of people just cannot stand someone talking about sensitive issues and their reaction is to attack. Look at how this whole thing started. Even Shan, pointed it out that some of the very initial responses I got were just not right.

Your last paragraph is of little value. It includes<I am tired of hearing about the slavery of blacks by American whites just because it happens to be the most recent time of slavery>. `Just because it happens.....`, you really think this is an issue that should be belittled like that! Waoh!

Do you know the amount of energy devoted to,say,the issue of women murdered because of `adultery` or `honour killings by men`, in moslem countries? Think Amnesty International etc. Imagine me saying to someone closely related to such issues, `I am fed up of people talking about these murdered women just because it happens right now`. Your way of describing racism above I doubt would ever come from someone at the SERIOUS receiving end of it. You are saying that because you can afford to be apathetic.

I somewhat agree with you that few white people were actually involved in racism. However almost all white people benefit from it (if you doubt this then read the first post at this thread), not consciuosly but they do. And there you have one of the more complex issues of racism.

You also wrote <So, grow up and move on, and I say that as a friend. And carrying all this negative energy and feeding it by starting forums like this are in the end, only going to be to YOUR disadvantage. Rise above it already and get on with your life.>

I should grow up? I should move on? First read what I wrote above PLUS you know for a fact that my life is stagnant because I strongly address racism SOMETIMES? People come on these boards and make these cliched statements that really have no value!

I am no fool. Do you know what you are saying especially when you look at the relevant context here? I strongly suspect that you do not. First let me remind you of what you wrote<In fact, during high school, when we were studying about it in history class, I renounced my race and hated everyone white for a while.> Now let me tell you something, if every now and again you are at the receiving end of what white people did and STILL DO - some incidents being serious and some not so serious - that made YOU RENOUNCE YOUR RACE in high school, the `for a while` at the end of your sentence above there tends to become `throughout your life`. And it can easily `overtake` your life which you think it has done to me but you are wrong.

You also wrote <feeding it by starting forums like this are in the end, only going to be to YOUR disadvantage. Rise above it already and get on with your life.>

What do you know about ALL my reasons for these threads? You see that first post above from the white professor. I have caused reactions like that from white people in my local community that have read　ｍｙ `angry thoughts about racism`; what you think is simply a `disadvantage` to me. People that have turned around and told me that they had taken their white priviledge for granted before reading my posts, or similar reactions.

You wrote <Rise above it already and get on with your life.> You do not want to attack but this is your very first post largely addressed to me and condescending statements like this just do not help. I know nothing about your life and would not say this to you.

(In the past I have made the mistake of getting into silly arguments over who specifically has suffered more discrimination. I simply do not know the answer to that. However statistically I can make an effort to answer such a question but it simply is not an important issue)

Peace to you

Chairo

[swordfishtrombone]

chairo has gone postal. cyber-style.

kill whitey!!!

[Bongo]

All you need is a rifle and a gas station and you too can start killing your white oppressors!

[the dude]

Cairo wrote:

BESIDES THIS WHOLE THING STARTED BECAUSE I, A BLACK MAN, WAS SOMEWHAT `ATTACKED` WITH RACIST SLURS AND IT WAS ABSOLUTELY UNCALLED FOR.; I DID NOT ATTACK ANYBODY. READ THE FIRST POSTS AND SEE. I WAS NOT EVEN THE FIRST PERSON THAT `REALLY STRONGLY` COMPLAINED ABOUT SAID SLURS.

You called me a dunce an idiot & all mixed up. Not to mention generalized all Japanese people and suggested they are color blind.

What a hypocrite...

[Backwardsfish]

I thought the Dental Damn thread was a much more fun read. This is like serious dudes.

Can't we all just get along? There is truth to what that prof wrote up there.

I'm a white guy from Canada and although my city (Vancouver) has actually less white people than asian,black,indian etc. I still feel that sometimes I got the job just cuz I fit some mold created by California/USA media hype.

I will go bang my head against the wall as punishment I was born white. I appologize on behalf of my parents.

[2paclives]

Chairo`s posts are too long but the brother makes good points.

Im a blackman with white friends who I dont blame for slavery or discrimination but you can`t ignore history folks. Black and other cultures have done shameful/hateful/murderous things, not denying that, but white European cultures were at the head of the line to go to non European countries and take over the place, use up the resources, enslave the population in some cases and generally colonize because of their assumption that white culture is superior.

Maybe non white cultures would have done the same if they`d had the technology (a lot of the technology came from China but the Chinese were busy thinking they were superior anyway and didnt want to go out of their own country so much) but let`s talk about what happened. White colonizers went all around the world, made the powerful folks back at home more powerful and rich and made whiteness and European culture `the norm`.

Black folks in the US are regarded as entertainers because being an entertainer was the only way to any kind of half good life during bad, bad times for black people. My family came from the south but moved in the 1900s to LA. Racism was open in the south but in the other parts of the US it was more quiet but still hateful. My grandparents grew up in Inglewood, a black area where gangbanging is part of the lifestyle. That doesn`t mean all black guys are running around shooting brothers and selling drugs (slanging) but it`s an area that is a no go zone for other folks. It`s dangerous. My parents left before we were born and moved elsewhere in Cali. It wasn`t so bad then as it is now but they could see where it was all going.

Why do so many black folks in black areas of LA and other parts of the US get caught up in the illegal lifestyle? Fact is - theres no jobs, there`s no hope when you graduate from school (if you wait that long). These kind of areas were working class areas and nowadays there`s no work. Same as in poor white areas but the black areas are more dangerous and life is cheaper. The energies of young black men (and women) are used in a suicidal way - the rage and frustration is turned inwards with the cost being paid by the black community. One of the ways out is music. I`m a hip hop man but I know that the reason 50cent is selling so many f----- copies of his cds is because the non black community wants to experience the danger and anger and pain of the poor black communities without having to go through any of it.

Not all black folks in the US are poor or ghetto. I`m not from the middle class but my parents raised me away from the ghetto. But I stil go through some of what my brothers go through when I hear sterotyping of black folks, when white folks back home look at me as if I`m going to pull a gun on them when Im just minding my own business and when US politicians reject paying reparations to black familis for slavery even though a hell of alot of the US economy was built on slavery on the back of black folks.

[Shan]

Oh no...

[trip_hop]

2paclives - interesting comment - "Maybe non white cultures would have done the same if they`d had the technology?" Most of the technological advances did come from the Northern Temperate lands, which also include China, where the constantly changing environment provided a challenge, compared to the quite constant and relatively favourable conditions below the Saharan desert, which was effectively a barrier between Southern Africa and North Africa/ Europe and the Asian continents. This was obviously going back 1000s of years and not recent history, so previous landscapes, flora and fauna should be considered.

There is a good explanation in Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond, 1998 Science Book Prize winner, a non-Eurocentric history of people over the last 13,000 years.

th

[Bongo]

There is an interesting one recently, with a recommendation to hard drive manufacturers to stop using the words "master" and "slave" in relation to primary and secondary disks More details here (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/25/0014257&mode=thread&tid=103&tid=133&tid=186&tid=99 ). I feel this might be founded in a mentality that if you're entitled to take offence, someone will.

One the other hand, 2paclives. I wish Chairo could have put it as eloquently as you have. Here's another interesting one.

Benjamin Zephania is what's popularly called a British "street poet" who was recenltly awarded an OBE. In response to being awarded the OBE his message was (his exact words on the national news):

"Up yours Tony Blair, up yours Mrs Queen."

Why? The reason is in the slight detail that OBE stands for "Order of the British Empire".

I firmly believe that most British people would think he did The Right Thing. I don't find the word offensive as some black people might, but I think it has no place in a modern democracy. Here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3242154.stm).

[trip_hop]

Bongo - there goes the whole BDSM industry!

[Bluedog]

I saw that Master/Slave story before, and it's the stupidest example of PC gone wrong (no lame pun intended) that I've ever seen. They said that they would replace the words master and slave with 'primary' and 'secondary'. Only one problem with that, primary and secondary is already used to refer to the IDE channels, and if you call the disks by the the same names, it will be really confusing. 3am, doing a disk swap and format, and oops, just formatted the primary primary instead of the primary secondary.

But it will be a great equaliser, people all across the globe, black, white and yellow will be swearing and gnashing their teeth at the f*cknuts who made up the names.

If you find a problem and suggest a solution, the least you could do would be to spend 4 seconds to think about whether it will cause more problems than it solves.

Luckily serial ATA will be widespread soon, and the master/slave will be obselete. Everyone hates the configuration issues anyway.

[Bongo]

trip hop wrote:

Bongo - there goes the whole BDSM industry!

Who gave you permission to speak? Get back to your chores! *spank* *spank*

[Mahou]

Just some food for thought for 2pac.

The Chinese did not go out "conquering" other people for various reasons.

Reason number one : If you go to do a little research about chinese histories, you will find that the historical China is filled with infighting. These internal conflicts comes in waves, and each conflict destroys much of the knowledge that they has gained during the peaceful times. (One of the chinese emperors even ordered that all books/sources of knowledge in China be destroyed, another wanted to "separate China from the rest of the world", hence The Great Wall of China exists.) There is a lot of "inward thinking" in historical China.

Reason number two : China is a huge land, the chinese does not really feel compelled to go out and "get more land" in the past.

Reason number three : The chinese "Hans", were also once under the rule of foreign powers, such as Manchuria.

These were the main reason, I would think, and there should be more. The Chinese were too busy surviving to consider colonizations of other land. Superiority would be the last thing on their mind.

[sul]

There is no doubt about it, there is a lot of racism in the world today. Racism in the form of angry old Japanese uncles/grandfathers incensed to see young foreign men holding hands with Japanese girls. At least they won't beat you up for being with a local girl, like they sometimes do in Korea or China or Ireland.

But when it comes to oppressed races, I think Arabs are the most oppressed race in the world today. More than American blacks. Arabs have been branded terrorists by the world media. But having been to Arab countries, I can only express my appreciation for them. They are cool people -- cooler than money-hungry fascists like Bush and co.

[shakuhachi]

White Priviledge is over rated. With Affirmative Action etc, there are disadvatages to being white. The original poster called it unearned white priviledge... but its not unearned. It was earned by white ancestors who laid all the foundations for western civilization and the technology that you are using now.

[Backwardsfish]

Thre is a point to that.

I've applied to some jobs and been denied simply becausae the company is required to hire "proportional representation" and my white, male status sends my resume to the shredder.

Seems to work for some organizations (often governments) if you are crippled, visible minorty, gay/lesbian, or a single woman with child you are garaunteed a job.

[Ambient]

Ok, I read the first 10 lines of the first post when I realized something: This is nothing more than flamebait. Not even that, it's not even Relationship flamebait.

[buds]

"It was earned by white ancestors who laid all the foundations for western civilization and the technology that you are using now."
what? firearms to take that which didn't belong to them -- by force?
stoplights, peanut by-products, textiles? they aren't used nowadays? *shocked* i'm using them, guess i'm behind the times...
i don't agree with this topic, but it's primarily because i know it's weak rationalizations (like what i've just quoted) that will be posted in response... what goes around comes around :)

[Chairo]

Shakuhachi
Your posting above is simplistic. Simplistic enough to make it of very questionable value.
I value what I perceive as the 'advantages' of Western civilization and technology. For instance it never ceases to amaze how a mobile phone works or how a thing as heavy as plane can fly for hours in the air. (Yes,I do know that physics explains it 'explicitely') Having said that, Western tech is so omnipotent/inescapable it is almost impossible not to 'appreciate' it.

The difference between you and I is the fact that I understand that said 'advantages' might be a red herring.

Shakuhachi, you are making a mistake in thinking that Western civilisation and its attendant technology is better than what it 'displaced'.

What it 'displaced'? Think simplistic, virginal tribe in the Amazon that is visited by explorers from the West. These Westerners bring to the Amazon tribe devastating diseases that before their arrival were unheard of and unknown.

Is one better off with a simple village life without,say, a mobile phone compared to,say,a life now made that more 'it' with a mobile phone,plane flights, new diseases, the stress of being a salaryman etc.

That is simplifying things but I do not think it is that far off.

Chairo

[AV]

look who's back...

[Bugboy]

............as if we had missed him for a while..........

[Anonymous]

< Yeah, Ambient Vince is back, stirrin' up s__t again, that dirty ol' troll.

"White power,
White children,
White Jesus,
White Christmas".