Meeting foreign women in Tokyo?

[morimoto]

Hello, I was reading a recent copy of Tokyo Notice Board and there was an opinion piece that basically asked us guys to stop wasting our time and money at hostess bars and strip club and to spend our efforts on trying to meet "real" women instead (they suggested cafes I think). So I think to myself "OK, that sounds like a great idea." If only it were that easy. I've lived in Tokyo for almost 4 years now and can count on one hand the number of foreign women I've talked too. So although the article was a good critique, how is a nice guy in Tokyo supposed to meet nice foreign women anyways? Seriously.

[Glenski]

church
introduction through friends (or even omiai)
join a health club
date a co-worker

I mean, what would you do back in your home country? The answer is the same.

[Bongo]

基本的、六本木に行ってもの外国人の女の人はストリッ パーやホステスじゃなくて、普通の英語教師でしょう。だか ら、外国人と会いたいなら、六本木でも機会が多いかも しれない。

It's alright to post in Japanese isn't it?

[gerbilcat]

Sure, it's all right. Just a little hard for people whose Japanese isn't so good to decipher. However, I believe you're pointing out that not all foreign women in Roppongi work in strip clubs or bars, or am I getting this backwards? That there are plenty of women to meet there. I have trouble with the grammer.

Of course, as I've pointed out before, I'm a single foreign woman. But I'm also a thirty-six year old woman living out in a small town near Utsunomiya, who owns cats, gerbils and a dog. Also I'm involved in Animal Rescue, and sometimes it seems that I teach all the time. So I don't meet people, either!

[thickmick]

Well I hope they don`t go to the sort of ``health clubs `` you go to ,you perv.

[morimoto]

Hello Glenski,

Thank you for your suggestions. Unfortuantely I usually don't do any of these things (which is probably why I'm alone in Tokyo). To take them one by one:

church - Well I'm not particularly an organized church kind of guy and I think that you should go to church because of your beliefs. I think its kind of disrespectful to go just to meet people. Its just not right for me.

introduction through friends (or even omiai) - Unfortunately many of my friends just have guy friends or friends who are just not available. I have yet to have a freind of mine try and set me up on a date (I think I might actually like it).

join a health club - Well in my particular case I'm handicapped. I've tried to join a few health clubs in my area (to exercise -- meeting people would just be a side benefit -- but they don't take handicapped clients. Plus I haven't seen many foreign women in the clubs while I was there.

date a co-worker - I don't date people from work.

I do appreciate the feedback though. Any nice foriegn girls reading this who might like to meet a nice guy??

Sincerely,

-- Michael.

[morimoto]

Hello Bongo,

Thanks for your email. Had to run it through babelfish but I think basically you are suggesting that it is possible to meet some nice foreign woman in Roppongi.

I've been to Roppongi a few times (with friends and by myself) and haven't met anyone yet. Sure I have met a few (usually drunk) Japanese girls there but that's not really what I, personally, am interested in. And I'm not really into the bar and/or meat market scene myself.

-- Michael.

[morimoto]

Hi Gerbilcat,

Thanks for the email. I was rather impressed by your attempt at translation. I was lazy and used babelfish. ;-) I certainly can relate to being isolated in the countryside. I spent a year in Kurashiki. Didn't have any pets though. ;-) But I find it just as isolated in Tokyo, if not more so. At least when I was in the countryside I knew a few of the other English teachers. Here in Tokyo I know my coworkers but they all live far away and so we can't really socialize. There are more foreigners here but usually you get get the cold shoulder on the street.

-- Michael.

[gaijinlady]

hi...
as a gaijin here in tokyo for almost two years... i tried to meet also other gaijin men thru ad in metropolis or tokyo notice board but most of the men ive met are so vulgar and they only like to have sex!!! since i cant speak nihonggo i thought making friends with gaijin like me can help me to enjoy my stay here in japan...
so.. any nice guys outhere who want to meet a nice and friendly asian lady???

its me,
weena
morimoto wrote:

> Hi Gerbilcat,
>
> Thanks for the email. I was rather impressed by your attempt
> at translation. I was lazy and used babelfish. ;-) I
> certainly can relate to being isolated in the countryside. I
> spent a year in Kurashiki. Didn't have any pets though. ;-)
> But I find it just as isolated in Tokyo, if not more so. At
> least when I was in the countryside I knew a few of the other
> English teachers. Here in Tokyo I know my coworkers but they
> all live far away and so we can't really socialize. There are
> more foreigners here but usually you get get the cold shoulder
> on the street.
>
> -- Michael.

[Bongo]

Oh, sorry, I thought you were Japanese, morimoto.

I wrote that it's not just strippers and hostess foreign women in Roppongi - there are plenty of English teachers there too!

[Mahou]

Gaijinlady, we might go out for coffee one day, for now, I just wanna clear my JLPT2 first :)

Gerbil, I am kinda looking for potential jobs that can provide me with a visa from next year on, so on reading your mini portfolio, I am kinda wondering, what kinda visa are you on, and is it possible for me to apply for a similar visa (As long as it`s not a spouse visa :P)?

I am still at a total loss on finding a sponsored-job in Japan, and I ain`t have a proper resume made too.. sigh, gonna find ways to get one done (with photo too)

[DannyBoy]

I lived in Japan, Chiba and met some women through Metropolis. I am happy to have done it, as it got me out on weekends and since my low-paying, gloomy, stressful IT job was so taxing and everyone at work married or lived too far from me, it was one of the few chances I had to make friends. In the end, I didn't meet Mrs. Right -- a lot of the girls were oddballs, but I guess I am too.
I've never had the guts to just pick someone up in a grocery store, but I think that's as good as typing away, hoping the person you're meeting online is really a woman...
I' think the first step in meeting women is meeting men. You've got to have friends to go out with. I've never met, well almost never, a woman by going out to a bar etc. all by myself... But tif I go with a friend or two, I'm smiling, happy and l'm a lot less intimidating to women. With a little dutch courage, I'll even talk to one of 'em.
So take it from me, drink a whiskey drink, drink a vodka drink, then ask your next door neighbor, "Let's go to a bar" and while you're there, talking about kerosene heaters and no more cockroaches because winter's coming, smile at someone and see what happens!
Good luck to you!

[thickmick]

It is not very often you get a nice ,truthful ,funny ,interesting ,heartwarming letter ,thanks for



keeping up the trend .



only kidding pal ,
more common ense in that letter than the houses of parliament ,
plus it didn`t make me vomit.

[gaijinlady]

dear mahou...
lets be friend email me thru my mobile weena@t.vodafone.ne.jp

[Mahou]

Gaijinlady, thanks for the addie!

Is it ok for you to just put up your address on the forum though?
(I was thinking about junk mails...)

[westsan]

the problem with foreign women is there is not much desire amongst them to visit and enjoy Japan so they dont come here. As a result there are not many cute ones.
Unless u like the Eastern Europeans -- something about that devilish nose bridge is not appealing to me.

[Shan]

That's right, Westsan. Not too many cute foreign women, as opposed to all the hunky foreign men I see every day. Please...

[Dr.Drew]

Hahahaha.....Shan is on to something, ne.


Generally speaking, I find that both Gaijin men and women here in Japan are pretty "fugly", as we used to say back in grade school.

Which came first, the Charisma Man or the Egg?? Lol...

[westsan]

OK

Yeah Shan, I didnt notice!!(^^♪

[the dude]

Westsan wrote:


Unless u like the Eastern Europeans -- something about that devilish nose bridge is not appealing to me.
You forgot to add some advice when you meet them. Like, "watch out for your wallets and wear extra strength gloves when ya ball em. Cause they are lyin gold diggers & they open those legs for more than just you."

[westsan]

Dude,

I dunno, I once had one that all she wanted was s*xxx... and that is all she got.
In retrospect she was quite darling.

strange thing this relationship stuff.

[AV]

dude, dasvendania

[the dude]

Westsan,

I agree w/u in some ways, it depends on the girl, but I got a hundred & one examples that make me change my mind.
For example: After my bad break up w/ my muff-divin-ruskie, (that secretly had a Japanese boyfriend) I balled her Ukranian friend a few times.
Her friend couldn't stop telling me how bad she felt for me and just wanted to go out with me and comfort me. At 1st I figured, I haven't got "U" on my list yet, (I'm trying to screw a chick from a country starting with every letter of the alphabet. BTW Took me forever to find a hot one, but just got Qatar!) so I went for her, but after a while I really started to believe her and even started liking the broad. But those Eastern Europeans must sense that cause just when I started to fall for her WHAM! She tells me I gotta hurry up and choose if I wanna marry her, cause her visa was gonna run out & she knows a Japanese dude who would marry her if I didn't. Told her to get f'ed, she cruises, calls me back in a week saying she's prego & it's mine so she gotta marry me or else the Japanese dude would notice the kid ain't his.
Me: What the hell? I only did you 2 or 3 x's and I used a glove each time! Furthermore, you were w/ another dude while we were together (only a week but even so)???
Ukranian: No, I wasn't with anyone I promise I just want you to be with me so I made it up that I have another guy. Please believe me, I looooovvve you my strong handsome Amerikoza!
Bought a prego-____ tester & she refused to use it & started to cry "why don't you believe me?"
Me: You lie just like your F'KED UP friend did!
Imediately cruised to Okinawa, (for 気分転換), met a smokin hot Russian that was on vacation, that swore she was a PhD student doing a thesis on Young Americans in Japan. I went up to see her in Tokyo, balled her in a hotel cause "her mother was visiting her from Russia and had a fever", after a few tequilla shots, she finally admits she can't take me back to her house cause she's married, but would happily divorice him if I were to take her to California w/ me when I cruised!
Me: God damn it! I got ANOTHER Eastern European liar! 3rd one this month!
I'm usually one of those people that think, "it can't be all of them". But I REALLY REALLY wonder...

[AV]

Oh, the outrageous East European stories...
I used to know a woman from Russia, who got married to a guy from New Hampshire as a mail-order bride. She used him to put herself through graduate school and her son through dental school. After a few years she divorced him... and took his New Hampshire house away!!! She was a very simple woman from the heart of Siberia. When we last met she had a well-paying and secure job at the US Department of Defence.
Another Russian girl I know terrorized her American husband into becoming a gay. Since he is unemployed and she is a certified accountant with PWC paying his mortgage, I think it's not long till she divorces him and takes his house too.
I also know a few successful marriages, but who wants to hear the nice stories...
Ha-ha, dude, what, not everything that shines is gold?!! :D

[Shan]

AV, how can you "terrorize" someone into being gay? I don't think it's something you become by bad experiences with the opposite sex; if so, I'd be a lesbian by now, and I'm definitely not. :-) Most gay people I have talked to knew at some level that they were gay since childhood.

The dude, for someone trying to "ball" a chick from a country from every letter of the alphabet, I have to say, you can't really expect the women assisting you in your quest to be any better than what you have ended up with. You reap what you sow; if you consort with trash, you'll likely only end up with garbage, even if you fall in love. If you act with more dignity, you'll end up with better women. If you don't, I say it's your own fault if you end up with psychos.

Dr. Drew, speak for your "fugly" self. :-) (hee hee)

[AV]

Shan,

I think she was the last drop, which is also what other people thought of their situation. After I spent some time with her, I can attest she can do it. Unfortunately, I think he is also a very impressionable guy, if he ever was gay, I am not sure.... The poor schmuck begged her to marry her, made her divorce her Russian husband and transfer to the U.S. All in all, he was courting her for two years or something... her conclusion? what a looser!

Your assessment of the dude's situation is so much true. Good point about garbage, ha-ha :) Dude, what did the Taiwanese tell you?...

[westsan]

dude,

Thats a funny story.

I am on another mission entirely separate of the alphabet (just wait till you get to the Zzzz's bleh!)

A polygamist Pimp Daddy Rothschild is my goal -- I will elaborate no further here.

But I will say it may be worth your while knocking up a few of them chicks and laying a passport on them for 2 years so they can raise your children for you.
Reproduction is the meaning of life. So you can help her and yourself at the same time.
Just make sure you dont have them brats too close together cause that would be unfair to the kids(^_-)

But the thing about Russians and Eastern Europe is... If they had any discipline/wherewithal it would show in their nations GNP...
But as it stands now next to the US only Japan is next... so if its not love... or you dont want her to have your kids you best f*ck and run!!

[Bluedog]

"how can you "terrorize" someone into being gay? I don't think it's something you become by bad experiences with the opposite sex; if so, I'd be a lesbian by now"

that's funny. I always figured that you were born that way, or at least there was some cognitive process involved in "going homo" but now that you mention it, I guess you could be terrorised into going homo. Must be what Bush is so worried about with this war on terror thing.

I say to him: "Don't fight it, don't fight it! People who are in denial are often the ones who end up the homoest.

[the dude]

Shan,

You ain't a lesbian? Too bad... I'd invite you over for the mix if you were. That seems to be my only criteria now-a-days. Gotta be from a country that starts with: "L", "O", "V", "W","X","Y", "Z" or you gotta have a licker-license! & you're right. it's hard to find hotties (w/ no secret guys) willing to oblige, that are in a normal state of mind.

Westsan,

Bout knockin em up, not so sure I could go that far. Don't want to give away all of my future cash, or have any more pissed-off-psycho-stalkers! Besides, the world is having a helluva time w/ one of me. This place would really suck if I were to multiply!

"A polygamist Pimp Daddy Rothschild is my goal -- I will elaborate no further here."
Now you got me curious! It aint cool to only reveal part of what you're aimin for. I'm bored outta my mind in the office right now, and not knowin is making it worse!


AV,

I agree with Shan. How do you "terrorize" someone into being gay? You ever see that boxing movie (forgot the name, but Woody Harelson, & Antonio Banderras are in it)?
If you got a dong in your ___ you either like it or you don't!

[AV]

Dude,
a Russian friend once taught me, never feel bad about taking advantage of a guy because guys never feel bad about taking advantage of you.
You are a living example.

[the dude]

AV,

Was that Russian friend Joanna, Natasha, Ludmilla, Ivana, Tania, or Axana?

[swordfishtrombone]

Dude,

hate to break it to ya, but i don't think there are any countries in the X category.
yer gonna have ta double up on Z.

[AV]

neither... my friends are educated and well-placed in life… which often doesn’t change their nature, unfortunately… this is the kind of wisdom that daughters learn from their mothers... Really, check out the relationship forums at Ukraine.com or Russia.com, see for yourself.

BTW, judging by one Ukrainian name you cited, you are mixing with some provincial chicks.... who must be pretty desperate too… jee, setting up a guy after a week of dating? Either she is plain dumb or she thinks you are plain dumb…

So how come U was not on your list, never been with a girl back home?

[the dude]

Actually w/ the exception of Natasha, the above chicks are Ruskies. Or at least said they were. I was only dating Natasha for a week or so, but I knew her for a couple of years (through her best friend/my ex. )

[the dude]

When counting countries, you can't use a country for two letters. Ie The Netherlands can't be used for "T" and "N". I already used America for the letter "A". And to answer your earlier question, I ain't been with a Taiwanese before. "T" was Thailand.

[trip_hop]

SFT - how about a lady from the Xhosa tribe? - Bantu, S. Africa?

[swordfishtrombone]

TH-

we'll have to let the dude answer that one. i'm still studying up on the rules!

[AV]

dude, I'm pretty sure Ivanna is not a Russian name

[AV]

So, is that a Ruskie you were referring too as your hot European wife?.. LOL
Don’t take it personally, really. From east european perspective, north american males lack masculinity in the same way north american females lack femininity. I could see how your ex would keep you on the hook but keep going to a Japanese guy for the real thing… plus, they all hedge the bets, LOL. That friend I mentioned – she was intermittently sleeping with three guys while being engaged to yet another guy, to whom she is successfully married now...

[the dude]

AV,

Don't quit your day job for a shot at being a Private Investigator. The Ruskie stories are a few years old. I just got married in April this year.
My hot European wife is from Western Europe.
Regarding the muff-diving EX-g/f I would never marry that lying gold diggin biiiaaaaaaaaatch! She was one helluva lay and she munched up carpet better than a rug doctor. but she was always lying about somethin & probably knew that I ain't gonna tie the knot w/ someone I don't trust & I'm sure that's the reason she went lookin for someone who would marry her. He's a short Jpns guy that would believe a lyin Ruskie when she lies and says she was out shoppin. Last time I heard, he works at a wine bar in Nishi Azabu.

SFT & TH,

I might have to change the rules when it comes to "X", unless you can think of a country for me! Does Xanadu exist???

[westsan]

damn dude>>>

thats right around the corner from me! Send me the name of that bar!!!
I am curious what the nutritional value of munching carpets does to a girls body ArArArrrrr


BTW: giving up future cash is what it is all about.

I mean for what do you earn cash in the first place? More sex?
You will make millions of dollars in your lifetime. If you dont make anything with that cash...
they you just waste it on sexual debauchery.
I got so tired of that. And knowing my own weakness I ventured on the first step toward my baby, a constructive/productive result of my sexual exploits, the Ultimate Toy.

[trip_hop]

Dude - the concept of Xanadu originated from a poem titled, "Kubla Khan" written by Samuel Taylor Coleridge in the late 1700's. Most modern references to Xanadu can be directly linked back to this poem.� It is in turn based on Samuel Purchas's "Pilgrimage, which went:

"In Xamdu did Cublai Can build a stately Palace, excompassing sixteene miles of plaine ground with a wall, wherein are fertile Meddowes, pleasant Springs, delightfull Streames, and all sorts of beasts of chase and game, and in the middest thereof a sumptuous house of pleasure, which may be removed from place to place."

Then "Frankie Goes to Hollywood" revisited it - In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a Pleasure Dome erect.....

Sorry...

th

[westsan]

WHOAAAAA WAAAAAY OFF the MARK THERE TRIP-HOP!!!!!!

[trip_hop]

Explain, in small letters please. There is no need to shout in capital letters.

[AV]

No additional research, dude, just good memory.
Good luck to you both in the country search.
Have you thought about Croatia – that’s Хрватска in Serbo-Croatian.

[Shan]

So the dude, are you still on your "alphabet quest" although you got married in April this year? Does your wife know about it? If so, she's a lot more understanding than I would be.

My favorite gold digger story is about a woman who was not even from Eastern Europe; does anyone remember Anita, the Chilean woman whose Japanese husband embezzled all that money from the local government where he worked, sent it to her, and now she refuses to return it? I felt sorry for the guy, but wow, was he blindsided. Lots of men (foreign men, that is) in Japan say that we "western women" are agressive, pushy, and unfeminine, but I think that women in all countries find ways to get what they want, one way or another. Perhaps the joke is on us silly western women who think we should actually work for it ourselves.

[the dude]

Shan,

My better half knows about the alphabet quest. She really admires me for being determined in life, but I think I might have to give this one up and look for a new hobby. We just moved to Tokyo, for a sweet job and it's too draining to go out and meet new people during my only time off. Plus you gotta make sure they are disease free, ain't gonna stalk you, and love hotels for 3 people are TWICE THE PRICE!!! I never quit anything and I thought of this challenge my own creative self but just gotta do what's best. Sucks doesn't it? I was so close too...

AV wrote:

"Have you thought about Croatia – that’s Хрватска in Serbo-Croatian"

AV,
I gotta call and ask her, but I'm pretty sure I was with a girl from Croatia. Maybe I can switch my "C" for "X". Especially since I already have Canada & China. Thanks for the encouragement!

Westsan,

Don't know the name of the bar, but I would remember it if I saw it. Plus I ain't framiliar w/ Tokyo at all so I don't remember how far that is from where I am. I'll give ya a call!

Trip Hop

I just remember it cause Olivia Newton John sang in a roller skating movie. The strange things people remeber from child hood.

[Shan]

So you involve your wife in your quest then? Wow, quite a woman. Or maybe she has a tally of her own.

[AV]

Shan,
there is nothing wrong in having a second woman in the bed-room. I like dude’s approach, although admit, I’d be paranoid about them being clean.

Dude,
how come you missed on L? There are Latvia, Lithuania, Lichtenstein, Luxemburg in Europe alone! Oman might be a problem of course, but you can use Österreich for Austria...
I am not sure of there are any female citizens of the Vatikan, but they do have nice hot chicks in Venezuela… Viet Nam may be an even easier one from here...
Yugoslavia can go for Y, West Bank for W, you will have go African for Z though... I had one deliciously sexy friend from Zaire, so it is not necessarily a bad thing, you know.
It’s a piece of cake, you can do it! ;)

[Shan]

Are you a woman or a man, AV? Either way, if you're fine with it, that's great, but I wouldn't be. I know that there are all kinds of marriages, but if you're interested in "balling" all kinds of women, why would you bother to get married at all? Why not just stay single?

[Mahou]

Shan,

Some people just like the "thrill" of infidelity, that might be a reason.
As I have very little luck with the opposite sex, I would not know though ^^;

[the dude]

Mahou,

I agree, some people might dig the "thrill" of infidelity. I don't consider it infidelity though. I think of it more as being a pioneer of a creative feat. Plus it's cool to finish something you started! Only have 7 more to go! Thanks for the advice AV!



Post Edited (12-01-03 19:19)

[Bluedog]

Dude...

"I think of it more as being a pioneer of a creative feat"

A pioneer is someone who goes boldy where no man has gone before. Think star trek, think maiden defloration, think of the road less travelled, but banging as many women as possible is hardly pioneering or a creative feat. I guess it must be thirsty work though, so in true pioneer style, you could strap on a canteen to keep you running when the fluids are low.

[westsan]

anyway... I am pretty faithful myself -------------- but only by default. (^_^.)

[Shan]

Do you mean by default because you haven't found anyone to be unfaithful with? I know men are not supposedly by nature monogamous, but I have a question: why don't you guys just stay single if you want to keep fooling around? I'm not trying to judge you, but it would seem to me that you could avoid loads of problems and bonk to your heart's content without potentially hurting your wife if you just never got married. Or do you think you can be married and still have the sex life of a single guy? I'm interested to hear some married guys' responses.

[AV]

Shan,

I am not guy and I don't approve infidelity, but you can't ignore the fact that some people physically and psychologically cannot be satisfied if they have sex with the same partner. I've seen it in both men and women. That doesn't change their natural desire to get married and have life, kids, etc as everybody else. There are also people for whom sex is purely physical, while love and family relationships are emotional, and the two do not necessarily connect. I know several functional families where one of the spouses is that kind of person. They are my friends, and otherwise very nice people. Whether or not they are open about it with their spouses is a matter of their own consciousness. Sometimes the other side knows but pretends they don't notice, sometimes the other side doesn't know, and would be devastated if they find out - that, in my opinion, is a wrong choice of a partner.

I personally feel more disgusted if a husband has a real relationship on the side or even a second family. But then in some cultures having an extra-marital relationship is simply a demonstration of status. Take late Mitterand, his second family was even present at his state (!!!) funeral.

As to having another woman in bed - that's NOT cheating. That's a matter of personal taste, and by the way it requires consent of both partners.


Mahou,

I agree with the dude. If his better half knows, it’s is not infidelity. If she were a kind of person who would freak out if she finds out, then cheating on her would be wrong.



Post Edited (12-02-03 23:31)

[carlos]

My J wife is so funny!

"I have a friend who is a virgin...could you help her?"

"Sex shops for guys - iina. Why don't you go to one? If I were a guy I would..."

"Don't you get bored with just one lady?"

"Lets go without sex for six months! Try try! If you want to, you can have a sex friend"

Of course I always reply no (it must be a trap, surely?). But what if I say yes?

[Mahou]

AV, I agree with your observation only partially. I agree that it is not infidelity if it goes BOTH ways. My reasoning is that: if the guy is having "extra helpings outside of his marriage" and yet mind if his wife wants to do the same thing, then it is infidelity no matter if she consents to it. Personally for me, one is more than enough ^^.

And, there was no indication that the dude`s wife has any knowledge of his "quest". He never mentioned if she knows/approved about it or not. <-- (Sorry, he did, so I had to edit) :)



Post Edited (12-03-03 12:50)

[the dude]

Mahou,

Uhhh... read again. I did answer that question.

Shan,

Why was your question addressed to men: "I know men are not supposedly by nature monogamous, but I have a question: why don't you guys just stay single if you want to keep fooling around?" &
"do you think you can be married and still have the sex life of a single guy? I'm interested to hear some married guys' responses." ???

You cant step up to bat with as strong of morals when a woman fools around?
i.e. the stories about cheating female gold diggers from AV and I?

[the dude]

Carlos,

Say "YES"! If not, you will eventually regret that you didn't. Even more importantly, it sounds like your wife has some lesbian tendencies. Not the man-hating-mad-at-the-world-type. She sounds like a nice girl, who's probably curious. Make sure the chicks you mix w/ are either hotties, or from planet lezbo. If not you &/or your Mrs. won't dig it so much and you'll ruin your first time! Go for it!!!

[AV]

dude, are you sure?...
"Lets go without sex for six months" sounds more like an introduction to a sex-less marriage to me...

[Mahou]

Ok, I edited my post cause the dude did state his wife`s position on the matter of his "quest".

Though, I would like to ask, why do you seem think that it is fine for a guy to go around cheating or giving false hope to females for sex/personal gratification (and sometimes more), yet it is totally not ok for a female to use sex to get what they want? (money, visa, a man`s soul... you name it). Aren`t these two things just two sides of one coin?



Post Edited (12-03-03 13:35)

[the dude]

AV,

Oh yeah, she's lookin for a girl to do the 2 finger tango. Why else would someone suggest their lover get another lover? Seen it a million times. The sex-less marriage dealio was just a way of pushin him along to make the fantasy come true quicker cause Carlos ain't read between the lines yet.

Mahou,

Females or males can do whatever they want as long as they comply by the rules. Rule 1: HONESTY!! The above eastern europeans that I was specifically talking about were just a bunch of liars.

Rule 2: Everyone gotta agree!!! Chicks can use guys for money/visa, a soul (whatever the hell that means) as long as the guys being took don't mind. I know of a lot of guys & girls that have used someone for money/visa a place to stay, a job, you name it. In that case the other party has to agree and for it to be a give-and-take honest deal.

[AV]

Dude, the simplest way would be to ask if he ever had sex with two women. If it’s known that he didn’t, she can
•ask him if he ever fantasized about being with two women,
•ask him what he thinks about gays (never mind the reaction) and lesbians (very easy to spot if he is just being politically correct or actually talks about them fondly),
•Put on Tatu and ask if watching lesbians turns him on.
•Point to some acquaintances and say that there are rumors they are lesbo. What does he think of that?
•Notice when he stares at another woman and ask him what he thinks of her eyes, face, whatever, coming down to T&A and some joint guesses what she looks like without underwear.

The point is, if the guy just has sex on the side, it doesn’t mean he can handle two women. There are men who like it and there are men whom it distracts. The only way you can figure it out is to ask him about TWO women.

In what kind of state of mind/health does a woman need to be to suggest not having sex WITH HER for six months?

Carlos, I suggest next time she asks you if you want to help her friend lose virginity, ask her in return if she wants to participate.
PS: Just noticed you are asking about the games that diminish sexual urge in another threat? Does she have “head-aches”?



Post Edited (12-03-03 14:47)

[the dude]

AV,

(BTW, love your name! It reminds me of my favorite section at the video store.)

It is quite possible that Mrs. Carlos is shy & wants him to take the initiative to get the mix goin. I'm out-going so every girl I've ever been with never had that problem, but Carlos doesn't seem to be. It ain't a trap Carlos! And even IF it was, you don't want your wife playing games w/ ya! Go for it bra!!!

[Mahou]

Hehe.. yeah.. go for it...

And when something goes wrong... you will know who to blame for giving you the advice to proceed in the first place *evil grin*.

[Shan]

Dude,

I said "You guys" meaning you, the dude, and Westsan, since he said he is faithful "by default." I don't mean ALL men, and I don't think women being unfaithful either is good, but there haven't been any women in this discussion who have mentioned a quest like yours.

AV, I know there are all types of marriages and I know people want to have marriage and family, but I think something in this world has to be sacred. If two people agree on things, well, then, I guess it's OK if they don't want to have a monogamous marriage. It's not for me though. I think when two people get married, they have to make certain sacrifices. For example, until now in my life, I have lived where I wanted, done what I wanted with my money, and traveled where I wanted. I didn't want to give up my independence, so I haven't gotten married yet. Now, I'm starting to think there are benefits to being married, and I'm realizing that I will probably have to make some sacrifices with my lifestyle if I do get married. I'm more ready to do that now than five years ago. I see fidelity as a similar sacrifice; if you're not ready to make that sacrifice, perhaps you should just stay single. I know lots of people "slip up," but many don't. What makes some people faithful and others not?

Carlos, your wife is truly unique. I can't imagine suggesting to my partner what she has said to you. Maybe she is curious, however.

[AV]

Shan, I hate to appear judgmental but I think you are imposing your values on others. If I (ever) get married, I’d get married to a guy I can trust. As long as he and I share the same values, I don’t care about the private lives of other people. Otherwise, my views on fidelity are my values only. I don’t see why everyone else who can’t keep it should stay single. I’m not entitled to decide what things are sacred for other people.

As I said, there are people who either physically or psychologically cannot have sex with only one person – it’s not their fault or the fault of their parents, etc. - they were born that way. There are also people who cheat because of peer pressure (e.g. opinion of their buddies), or who need it for their self-esteem. Sometimes the spouses unknowingly push their other halves into seeking relieve “on the side,” it is especially a problem if either of the spouses was raised in a puritan tradition, as they either feel guilty about sex or are inexperienced/unwilling to experiment. Remember the story of the FBI agent, model catholic father of three kids and distinguished member of the community, blah-blah-blah, who basically sold state secrets to pay for a relationship with a stripper?
Japan is the only country I've seen where the spouses can knowingly push the other side into infidelity. I guess it is a cultural phenomenon here.

I understand you don’t want to find yourself with someone who is a compulsive cheater – neither do I. But I think it is our responsibility to be careful about who we choose as a partner, not their responsibility to change who they are. I have tons of married friends and I have never seen anyone practicing fidelity as a “sacrifice.” It either comes naturally or it will never be there.

[Shan]

So do you believe that some people are naturally faithful and others are not, and they can never change? I don't think so. I actually encourage most young men in their 20s to "sow their wild oats" because I have seen men who were faithful to one woman in their younger years, got married to that woman, and THEN decided, sometimes years later, that they didn't want to be faithful anymore. Seems to me the wrong time to become unfaithful.

I said fidelity is a sacrifice because I think being married means that you have to think of the other person, and just can't do what you feel like if it will hurt your partner (or your children, if you have them). For some people, being faithful may be harder than for others, but I think people should at least try, if their spouse expects it. If the dude's marriage works for him and his wife, that's fine, but I still don't understand why people who think like him just don't remain single. I may be imposing my values on others, but I think it's just as easy to not get married if you feel that you still want to sleep with lots of other people. Is being married necessary for everyone?

[AV]

Why are you only talking about men?. I personally know more women then men who were compulsive cheaters. We are both women, it’s no secret most women want to have children, and children need a family...

[Shan]

Well, I think those women should also remain happily single then. Again, I don't think people can think only of themselves when they get married. I'm not saying give up your entire life, but if you want to be completely selfish, then just stay single. It's why I've been single until now; not because I wanted to sleep with lots of guys, but because I was unwilling to compromise my personal goals, where I wanted to live, etc. I believe when you get married your life is not completely your own anymore and you have another person (or people) to consider when you do things.

Wow, we've kind of strayed from the original topic, haven't we? :-)

[AV]

Yeah, and we are the only ones talking… sorry guys!!!

“Well, I think those women should also remain happily single then.”

Uh… that’s a hard one… My friends are women in their 40s, they’ve been married for years, they are very understand wives and all have very nice husbands. I cannot imagine telling them they shouldn’t have gotten married… or shouldn’t have had children. And thinking of their children (10-14), I cannot imagine telling them that they shouldn’t have been born.

Well, anyways, I agree to disagree. . To me, demanding of people more then what they can give me is just as selfish. I mean, do you expect less of your boyfriends now then you would expect if you were to get married?

[Mahou]

AV,

Wow... you know more women who are compulsive cheaters than men? You seem to be living in another planet ^^; Of the cheaters (in relationships) that I got to observe so far, only about 10% are women.

I guess the situation changes based on country, timeline, and social circle.

And while I do agree that people are born with certain inclinations, human beings, with proper guidance (either inner or external), can develop self discipline. Of course the people who are born with tendencie to stray will have their work cut out for them.

[the dude]

Mahou & AV,

Women & men cheat the same. Mahou you don't know many women cheaters because women rarely admit it (especially to a guy), compared w/ guys who brag about it.

Shan,

You wrote that bad experiences w/ men haven't forced you into becoming a lesbian. You have a lot of anger towards men so you might wanna give it a shot for a while. At least till your anger dies down.

[AV]

"you don't know many women cheaters because women rarely admit it (especially to a guy), compared w/ guys who brag about it."

Exactly, that's why I know more women cheaters. Somehow guys are more relucted to try to impress me with how they cheat/cheated on their girlfriends.

[carlos]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! The Dude, I never thought Mrs Carlos might be interested in journeying to Planet Lezbo, but it got me thinking... you're right that she is the curious type. I might take some of AV's suggestions and ask her some carefully timed questions about Tatu, threesomes etc. Cheers for your colourful advice Dude.

It's very strange but I feel there is some pressure from my wife to have sex with someone else. Maybe she just wants the best for me? I was inquiring about Mahou's online games because I was thinking if I could show my wife I was getting sexual variation from the computer, I wouldn't need another actual person to do it with. I think she worries that she is not enough for me, no matter how much I try to reassure her.

It was also beautiful to see AV and Shan have a head-to-head discussion above. The two women made their cases well in a civilised manner. I'm sure if it was two guys going at it like that, it would have degenerated into name calling and personality attacks by now. Good on you both!

[Mahou]

The dude,

I still believe that given similar condition (pretty good relationship) in a marriage, females are less likely to cheat on their partners than males.

You also mentioned that women are less likely to admit that they cheat, I do not think that guys will readily admit that they cheat either, much less brag about it. If it is a matter of having a lot of different partners while being unmarried, then well yes, guys do brag a lot about it (You know.. I had this hot chick last night... etc etc etc...), to other guys! I somehow do not think that you can impress a female by telling her how many other females you have cheated ^^;

And even till now, I still get the feeling that a lot of guys thinks it`s an achievement having "bagged" many gals, while if a gal does the same thing, she gonna be very likely viewed as a slut by those very same guys (even other gals too). I think this is very unfair.

[Shan]

So dude, how about your "anger" towards the Russian women who cheated on you or tried to dupe you? Tried the other side? Perhaps your wife would like to have a threesome with two men? To me, that's much more enticing than two women and one man, but maybe she's different.

Actually, I have very little anger towards men, only some anger towards certain situations. Not really waiting for anything to "die down." I have often wistfully thought that if I was a lesbian, my life might be easier, but unfortunately, I find myself with very little, if any, attraction towards women. And I like (some) men very much.

Mahou, you're right, men and women's sexual exploitations are looked at differently, for the most part. I think that this is evening out in the west, however, as I have some western female friends who are just as brazen about their sexual escapades as men, if not more. Not sure about Japan though; the norm seems to be that women are to look like wide-eyed innocents but be "sluts" in the bedroom. Have sex but don't act like you want it. Perhaps the reason for so many "rape" comics and movies.

[the dude]

Carlos,

No prob bro! Tell us what happens!

Shan,

Me try the "other side" because of the Russian chick who cheated on me? I tried the other side of the continent and tied the knot w/ a western european if that's what ya mean.
There ain't nuttin wrong w/ bein a lezbo so if ya ever wanna give it a shot, i'll get ya in touch w/ the Ruskie. If you're hot, she'd be happy to get sweet on ya. If you ain't so good lookin, then you can tell her you're rich or that chick on chick marriages are recognized where you come from, & you'll get her a visa.

[Mahou]

so, the dude...

You said that you dislike people who uses deception/lies.
Yet you asked Shan to use deception/lie to another person...
What`s the catch?

[the dude]

Mahou,

Because what I suggested to Shan was a joke brainiac!

[Shan]

Don't worry Mahou, I wouldn't be interested in meeting the dude's acquaintances anyway, even if I were a lesbian. But you still didn't answer my question about the "other side": I meant you, your wife, and another man dude.

[the dude]

Shan,

Not the "other side" of the continent like where the Riviera is? Too bad.. I've been there a few times. I dig the Riviera even more than Southern Calif. I'd be there instead of Tokyo if I had the money, or if European salaries were any good.
Sorry lost track for a bit. Another guy? No f'ing way!!! I'ld never go to that "other side".
My wife would NEVER be w/ another man either. If I had my choice there wouldn't be any guys in the world except for me and a few of my pals. Why are you asking that sick, twisted, question anyway?
Also, I don't blame ya for not wanting to meet my ex. Other than her size "D" teets & her extra long tongue, the _____ was pretty useless.



Post Edited (12-08-03 16:54)

[Mahou]

Ah.. a joke... Sorry, I am dense, I need direct explanation.

Well, at least I get to see the dude`s stand.
According to you, your wife finds it fine to share you with another female.
But if she happen to have any inclination of wanting to find another guy for some "extra activities", you are in strong opposition.

Therefore, it is (and I quote directly) "sick, twisted" if a female wants to have multiple partners, but it is totally fine for you to have multiple partners. Not judging you or anything, people are free to live the way they want, just want to make sure that this is your stand, and that I am not misreading anything.

I can guess pretty easily why Shan asked that question though, but it`s up to her if she wants to explain it or not ^^.

[the dude]

Mahou,

Both you and Shan must be bored to ask me in that much detail about my sexual desires. My stance is that guys are nasty and chicks are hot.
Cool?

[Shan]

Well, Mahou, to be fair, he said it's OK for women to be with other women too...just not other men. I suppose he doesn't feel the same way about men being with other men though. Funny. If I were married and had my own "alphabet game," I'd be doing it with men, not women. And I'd ask my lovely husband to support my goals as I search for the elusive "X." Oh, how I'd love to hear from Mrs. Dude on the subject...

[Mahou]

Shan,

I am being fair. He is skirting the issue, as far as I can see from the replies.
Whether it is ok for him for women to be with other women does not really tie to the issue of women being with other men. It is more like comparing a wife who allows her husband to have sexual activities with another men, while not allowing him to do so with other females.

In short, I am asking him if he is practicing double standards.
(It is allright for married men, but not for married females to have multiple sex partners of the opposite sex.)

"My stance is that guys are nasty" <-- Does this include you and all your buddies?

(edited for spelling)



Post Edited (12-09-03 11:05)

[the dude]

I'll give you my response in a little bit. Got a bit of work piled up here in the office this AM.

[AV]

Mahou, Shan,

What's so wrong about not liking people of the same sex?
I've met so many nasty women that I can't see them for anything other than sex objects, which is all they present of themselves no matter whether they are Japanese binkos or belligerent Western feminists. And even if they disappear from the face of the earth I wouldn't miss them a bit. They don't like me either, never had an honest female friend in my life. Competition is natural for any species, and it is just as natural to want to avoid it.



Post Edited (12-09-03 12:04)

[Mahou]

AV,

Not liking the same sex is not the same as what Shan and I have been asking the dude.
It might be related overall, but it has got little to do with the latest discussion.
And in my opinion, though not liking the same sex is understandable, wishing that everyone else of the same sex to dissapear from the face of the earth is kinda unhealthy.

I will try to reword the impression I got and you can see if it has much to do with not liking the same sex:

The dude has a quest, which is to have sex with at least 26 different females, from different countries with names starting from A-Z. According to him, his wife supports him in this endeavour, and might even join in a threesome. However, if his wife happens to want to do a similar quest. (i.e have sex with at least 26 different men, from countries A-Z) he considers it sick and twisted. There is no way he`s gonna allow her to do it.
In other word, he is practicing double standards.

I was just asking him whether this is the case.
(I am dumb, I need confirmations ^^)

[the dude]

Mahou,


You ain't dumb bro. You're just persistent. My wife does not want to have sex with any men other than me. I think that all guys are physically unappealing. Yes including my friends. Guys can be gay if they want to as long as they don't try it with me.

[the dude]

Shan & Mahou,

Unless you have something new to say I think the above should cover everything.

[Shan]

Are you absolutely sure your wife doesn't want to have sex with anyone else? Or maybe, even if she does, she cares about you and your marriage enough not to? I just want to know if she did, if you would let her. It seems only fair that you would, given your quest. Does she know how to use a computer? If so, I would love to hear from her. :-)

[the dude]

Post Edited (12-09-03 17:06)

[AV]

Mahou, true, I wasn't following very closely.

[Shan]

Didn't mean to be disrespectful, but I would just like to hear from her.

[the dude]

Post Edited (12-09-03 17:05)

[the dude]

Mahou, you said you're a student? I hope you're studying sociology to learn some social skills. I don't want every male to dissapear from the face of the earth. I wrote it as a joke. If you followed the entire thread you might've noticed a trend of humor. I get on this site when I'm bored at work to have a few laughs. You and Shan kinda turned the past couple of days into a complaining sewing circle.

[Shan]

Well, dude, I don't like some of the language you've used in the past either (about "carpet munchers," "balling babes," "hos" etc.) Will you edit your posts? I'm just curious about your logic, and much of what I wrote, including "Can your wife use a computer?" was also a joke, as you said what you wrote in your previous posts was. That's the problem with online discussion, however; you cannot see the other person's facial expressions or hear his or her tone, so people don't know when others are joking or being sarcastic. My mother told me never to argue with someone over e-mail for that precise reason.

[the dude]

Your mother told you that? How old are you? My mother doesn't even know how to use Email.

[Shan]

I'm 31 and mom's 60. Once she figured out how to turn on the computer, we were really rolling. :-)

[the dude]

How bout that! You're a year older than me, and our mothers are the same age! Guess yours is smarter than mine!

[AV]

That’s a very funny discussion. Does age really have something to do with it?
I’m trying to make my mom teach my granny (83) to use email or chat, she (granny) resists. My grandpa (86) is curious but his hands are not too strong.

[Mahou]

The dude,

Yeah, I am persistent. (Else I won`t improve)
The thing is, you kept saying you are joking, but it is very difficult to distinguish whether someone is joking or not in writing (unless you explicitly stated it later on). As Shan has said, there is no tone we can use to guess if it`s a joke or not. Another problem is that, unless made clearly, (stated or otherwise) "that was a joke" comment is used pretty often as an excuse to cover up stuff. Like, when a guy proposed to a gal, and upon seeing that the gal is pretty upset, followed up with saying it was only a joke.

So is the part about guys being physically unappealing to you a joke? We will never know if you don`t say it :P. Anyway since you seem very reluctant to answer the question directly, I guess I will just have to drop it. I woulda stopped asking earlier had the question been answered.

By the way, I saw three "cross dressers" on the BariBari Value show (chn 6) yesterday, and they all look verrrry pretty for guys ^^;

My dad is nearing 60, and he refuses to learn how to use telephone message system or e-mail (He does not even want to carry a handphone, my mom carries one).

[the dude]

Mahou,

Improve what?

Anyway, got another boring day at work today so I'll clarify everything for you.

My stance (no joke): girls, & guys can be homosexual if they are into it. People can do whatever they want to as long as everyone agrees. I do NOT find any guy attractive. I find multiple girls attractive.

(Joke): Wish there wasn't any other male in the world except me. I'll introduce Shan to the gold diggin, lyin, muff-diver.

(half joke, half serious): You and Shan need to lighten up and quit trying to argue about everything under the sun. The glass IS half full.

[the dude]

AV,

How old are you?

[AV]

27

[Shan]

I don't care if you like men or don't like men, dude, just wondering why it was OK for you to have sex with other women and your wife to have sex with other women, but not OK for your wife to have sex with other men. You say she doesn't want to; have you asked her?

Maybe you're too lightened up. :-) (Another attempt at an online joke.)

[the dude]

Shan,

I used to date someone who smoked cigarettes but hated cigars. I never tried to make her stop smoking cigarettes or start liking cigars. It's just people's preference.

[Dr.Drew]

By the way, where is Westsan....???

[brian]

Hi ,


I am a Canadian . I just spent the last 2 years or so teaching english in Seoul. Now it's time for me to go to japan and infact i want to meet and marry ajapanese woman. I think it's pretty easy to meet women if you are sincere and fairly honest! Good luck!

[strawberry]

I just wanted to say if you thought meeting gaijin women in Tokyo was difficult. Try meeting gaijin men in Hokkaido!!! I have only been here 2 months, and i think its going to be a very single year!

Strawberry.

[westsan]

strawberry wrote:

> I just wanted to say if you thought meeting gaijin women in
> Tokyo was difficult. Try meeting gaijin men in Hokkaido!!! I
> have only been here 2 months, and i think its going to be a
> very single year!
>

The only girl I have ever been with from Hokkaido was Gaijin (Russian).

But I hear the Japanese in Hokkaido are easy...

[Kent Brockman]

"Try meeting gaijin men in Hokkaido!!!"

We are frontiersmen and as such tend to split our time between Hokkaido's 2 main (albeit messy) activities; setting hunting traps and staying indoors to masturbate.

[the dude]

Hokkaido sounds like it bites! Chicks are complaining they can't get laid and the guys are inside spanking instead of apeasing the chicks???

Damn! And I thought that Chiba was bad!

[Mr t]

Hi Strawberry, I live in Sapporo, have for abouts 6 months now. Im from the Gold Australia. I know what you mean about meeting gaijin. Lets meet and have a chat. Contact me at gaijin2004@hotmail.com