Relationship forum!!!

[bokenna]

alright

time to ask you ladies some question.
how many of you have actually dated japanese guys before?
why did you go out with j-guys???
cause they looked hot?
or
they have the good warm heart and smart mind?
or
it was just purely the coincidence?

give me your feedback
ciao

[markosonlines]

Where's jguylover?

[jguylover]

I was in Thailand, sampling some of the local....uh...cusine! (^_-)

As the nick implies, I've dated plenty of Jguys, and for all the reasons you stated. Hot, sweet, interesting, and warm hearted. What else is there to say?

[AV]

I second jguylover. Also, J-guys don't disrespect you for wanting to be a woman, with high heels, make up, and whatever else it involves. Back in the US, the J-girl look had only one name - "bimbo."

[Dr.Drew]

LOL at AV...that's so true!


There should be a Game Show called "Japanese Street Fashion....Good Girl or Call Girl???"

[Shan]

That's true, AV. I was always criticized by guys for caring too much about my appearance at home (I'm not NEARLY as vain as most Japanese girls, I think) but here, they all love it! Maybe western guys want women to look perfect but don't want to acknowledge that it takes any work?? My own father always says he likes the "natural look," but does he really think Demi Moore is natural??

[smallworld]

AV, Shan, I've never thought about it like but before, but you're right.
It really does seem that some western guys want a girl who acts low-maintenance but looks high-maintanance. Sorry guys, but you can't have it both ways!

I like how I can be a skirt-wearing fancied-up girly-girl here and be left alone for it.

[gerbilcat]

Hmm. I had four years with a guy from Osaka. He was mostly sweet and warm hearted. He reminded me of a cat, he had a round face.

[Koishii]

My Jguy ahhhhhhhh what happy memories, I loved everything about him, the way he spoke, moved, felt, smelled, alas he was a mommies boy and I lost, ahh well never mind, I am sure I can find someone else *^_^*

[jguylover]

We jguy loving girls should get together! I've found that when a group of girls go out, it's easier to meet jguys, as they seem to get braver when in groups of their mates.

[the dude]

AV,


I second jguylover. Also, J-guys don't disrespect you for wanting to be a woman, with high heels, make up, and whatever else it involves. Back in the US, the J-girl look had only one name - "bimbo."

Can you really say what you wrote is true about all Japanese guys?
Not only that, I never put down a girl for trying to look good when I was in the US.

[AV]

dude, now you want me to be scientifically accurate?
OK :)
Correction
J-guys are less likely to disrespect....

But seriously, why would a J-guy disrespect a woman for wearing high heels, etc if there is no stigma associated with looking feminine and seductive - whatever the latter means in this culture. They can - ok, there is a probability they can - get annoyed by the babytalk, but that’s a different thing.

[the dude]

AV,

I meant, I never noticed a difference between my western friends & japanese friends when it came to admiring a girl that takes pride in how she looks. Beauty is beauty bebe! Every guy knows that.


"There is a probability they can - get annoyed by the babytalk, but that’s a different thing."

What baby talk are you talking about?



Post Edited (12-12-03 13:43)

[Shan]

Oh, come on. Lots of Japanese women speak like they're five years old! I teach four year old girls that are more mature than some twenty-five year old girls I see. Not all girls, but many, just like not all western men do what you said you didn't do above.

[the dude]

Ahhh, tryin to out cute eachother? I wasn't doubting the subject, I just wasn't following that closely and was asking what she meant. Yeah I've seen that quite a bit more often than w/ western gals.

[AV]

dude, it's not about taking pride, its about putting an effort
there was a hilarious (from my perspective) show on Larry King Live recently, where he had a panel of women to discuss whether it degrades a woman to wear make-up
(the idea was it is not necessarily so, contrary to the popular opinion)
but just the fact that you would put on air a show to challenge that kind of popular opinion is already quite something
can you imagine anything like that in Japan?

[smallworld]

"Can you really say what you wrote is true about all Japanese guys?
Not only that, I never put down a girl for trying to look good when I was in the US."

Unfortunately, a lot of people in N. America, both men and women, will automatically assume that a woman who has made the effort to look nice is a bimbo. Or vain. Or actively trying to find a man.

[AV]

Thanks, smallworld, that's so much true.

[the dude]

Smallworld & AV,

Then take note that both of those men and women in N. America are trying to criticize you because they are upset they can't have you. I am with out a doubt the best looking guy to ever walk the planet, and that could be the reason that Shan trys to criticize me. I keep telling her that she doesn't have to be upset, it's just a 2 for 1 offer!

[Mahou]

Let me guess, the post above was a joke...

[the dude]

Mahou,

No. We met for lunch today and she was VERY impressed with my looks and offered me money for my services.

[Shan]

Don't flatter yourself dude. Never seen you, but I don't care how good-looking you are (or aren't); from your postings, I know I wouldn't touch you with a ten-foot pole. Stop spreading lies. That's the funny thing about men's looks, from my perspective: an average-looking guy can become really good-looking if he has a great personality, and a good-looking guy can become a zero if he has a bad personality. And a bad-looking guy with a bad personality...well, that's just sad.

[Dr.Drew]

Shan,

That's one of the best analyses I've ever heard about people and looks...I think it's true for both guys and gals.

Speaking of looks, it's too bad there isn't some way to post a photo along with your message here at Gaijinpot...then again, everyone would no doubt use faked photos...lol!!

Maybe I would use a retouched one (Colin Farrell's face on Arnold Schwarzenneger's body...??? Lol!)

[Shan]

Is it true for men too? I've always thought that if a man wasn't at least somewhat physically attracted to a woman from the first meeting, he wouldn't pursue a relationship, whereas for women, a man's looks can "grow on them." What do the men think?

Bokenna, in answer to your original question, I think some Japanese guys can be very kind, considerate, and actually listen to what you say. I think the listening part is key; women like a guy who really listens to them. The problem that I've experienced, however, is that SOME (not all) Japanese guys are really impressed at first when they meet a gaijin girl and may pay a lot of attention to you, but some lose interest when they realize you are just a regular person and don't have some kind of movie star/Disneyland life just because you're a white person. There are also some guys who, believe it or not, are into the idea of having a foreign girlfriend, or at least having the experience of sleeping with one. While the special pull of their "gaijinness" seems to be really exciting for some foreign men, I personally don't want a guy who wants to go out or sleep with me just because of the country I come from. I think, however, young Japanese guys are getting more open-minded these days, and as jguylover will attest, some are very cute!

[chamcham]

Hey, I'm sure there's gotta be SOME attractive girls in Gunma.
Didn't most(or maybe all?) of "Initial D" take place in Gunma?

There's gotta be some cute racer girls...... :-p

[A]

Talking about visual appearance - like Shan said - I am also curious to know how important are good looks for man to feel drawn towards a long term relationship with a girl. Is it always a major decisive factor? May be not because I have seen some really great looking guys in good relationships or marriages with average looking plain janes.

[curry]

Yeah, that is so true....I find wit the sexiest thing in a girl....looks are important, but then, how long can you look? looks will be consigned to the dustbin of time....

For a fruitful long-term relationship, I should be able to enjoy talking to my girl...make love to her mind, play footsie with beautiful ideas and indulge in orgasmic experiences of just living life with her daily....where everyday is blessed with timelessness and egolessness...

Even for a short and sweet relationship, for me, conversation is important...I have tried to go out with a few J-girls...they were all sweet, but there wasn't any pleasure in conversing with them...ain't trying to generalize here though...maybe it was my bad luck....but then no friendship could actually materialize...

I have been looking and looking since then.....sadly, have remained alone....:-(

[Mahou]

Shan,

Looks can grow on both men and women, though I would agree that in most cases males are more visual people compared to females. The thing is, to get the look to "grow" on someone, there has to be a considerable amount of quality time spent together between those two individuals. Thing is, looks still matter, albeit the extent of importance varies by individuals.

If a guy looks pretty nerdy for example (like me), there is less chance that a gal would want to spend too much time with that guy, unless she is forced by circumstance (same classroom/office, etc). When time is not spent, it is difficult for anything to grow. It is especially true when there are lots of other alternative guys for her to spend her time with.

There also might be an X-factor sometimes. For example, I used to chat on the IRC a lot, and made quite a few online friends. Then one day some of us decided to meet for dinner. As the dinner progressed, I noticed that some of my chat-friends (females) are sort of trying to spend as little time as possible talking to me (their replies to my attempt at conversation turns monosyllabic). And after the dinner, back in the chatroom the next day, the frequency of my conversation with (some of) them decreases dramatically. I did not behave any different than my online persona, (got to talk less in fact as they were busy talking with other people in the group). Of course it did not happen with all the gals, but one common factor those who chose to distance themselves from me was that they were the better looking ones in the group (in my opinion anyway). So I can only conclude that looks matter, be it for males or females.

[AV]

Mahou, I am sorry, but I can’t believe you. Women are more perceptive towards personalities, not towards looks. We dissect men into who they are because whether or not we are looking long-term we want to be comfortable in the relationship. Women can be looking just for sex, and then looks do matter, but those women probably would not interest you. I’ve known some plain-looking, if not ugly men, one was even physically handicapped, who had great personalities and had the hearts of all women who knew them. It’s all about the humor, the wit, and the sparkle in the eye. Your bad experience most probably has a different cause then the one you gave.

Curry, its true some men appreciate the wit, but only in combination with appearance. Not to be too theoretic, I find that most of the time men are more inclined to recognize my personal qualities when they are physically attracted to me.

[curry]

AV, as you said, not all men...likewise, not all women are discerning enough...I personally think Mahou has a point there. For many women as well (and I mean even those who are not just looking for sex), it is the looks at the outset that matter.

Also, I agree with your last sentence. Initially, it is the eyes, the lips, the figure...but in a long-term relationship, these things cease to matter. Humour and understanding become important. And I think this holds true for both men and women.

Lastly, most guys would love to go around with J-Lo anytime...:-)...but some for a short time...some for a long time....that depends on how they are and what they want. Of course, here I do not mean to say that J-Lo may not possess wit....who knows !

[westsan]

to answer your question without using your listed options:

MANY (no names named) like to see themselves elevated
in how Japanese react to their blondliness and boobliness.

It is like looking at yourself thru the eyes of others because you cannot sustain your own self esteem.

same with guys... japanese girls get all dingy and ooh and aww because your a gaijin
makes you a stud

[bokenna]

Westsan, I do not quit get what you mean when you say

"to answer your question without using your listed options:"
and whose qeustion are you trying to answer, is it mine or somebody else on my post. I didnt see that listed options anywhere or was I blind.

ANYWAYs, I must agree with you, in some aspect, about Japanese people in general (especially with young Japanese):

westsan wrote:

> It is like looking at yourself thru the eyes of others because
> you cannot sustain your own self esteem.

> same with guys... japanese girls get all dingy and ooh and aww
> because your a gaijin
> makes you a stud

some Young Japanese does not have thier own sense of who they are, as a proudful member of the rising sun, they instead put so much pride onto thier physical appearances (of course this applies to non-japanese as well) so when they compare with gijin(black, brown and white) their sense of "pride" sometimes get shattered, because they tend to have the habit of creating negative self-image about themsevls when confronted by gaijin of all sorts of type, thinking..."well, I look ugly, cuz look at that black guy, hes so good looking"

As you can see from my writing, young Japanese love to compare with one another. Comparing one another about how I look and how you look can be healthy to some extent because it gives us sense of unique individuality that is different than others. However, when it gets beyond that healthy extent, young Japanese opt to create negative self-image that they are no worthy individual, not instead of embracing the unique individual, that I AM for who I am.
Be yourself, understand what you are made up of, like do you have a special talents or skills that nobody in the world have? Of course teenagers, all over the world, are all alike dont pay special attention to their inner quality, but every each passing moment they will eventually get it, this is part of ongoing process of life creation.....

so when I asked "how many of you ladies out there have dated j-guy before? " is to ask myself how many gaijins have came to a point where she have accepted her partner's unique differences. Embrace the difference. That is.

enough of this blah blah blah

ciao

[westsan]

relax guy.

I just meant that dating J-guys is a way of boosting ones own self esteem.
And that this was not applicable to any of your options:

> cause they looked hot?
> or
> they have the good warm heart and smart mind?
> or
> it was just purely the coincidence?

[Shan]

Same with dating or marrying Japanese girls, Westsan? Did you ever think that some women might date some Japanese guys because they actually like them?

[bokenna]

then state that options ur refering to, otherwise I have no heck of idea which options ur talking about. :)

I wouldnt want to hang out with girls just because she wants to boost her own self-esteem. If boyfriend found out that she's doing it, what would the boyfriend's reaction be like....I wander. :(

[westsan]

bokenna>> I shouldnt haveta go that far considering I am talking to you and you wrote it. the end.

Shan>>
Is there ever any occasion when you prefer fake flowers over real flowers?
Those silk ones look mighty real these days?
-- but then again - the Japanese dont make silk these days.

[smallworld]

'MANY (no names named) like to see themselves elevated
in how Japanese react to their blondliness and boobliness.

It is like looking at yourself thru the eyes of others because you cannot sustain your own self esteem.'

Westsan, I have known girls like this. They really love being put on a pedestal and worshipped. And I think some also got a kick out of charitably 'allowing' a lowly Japanese guy to date her. They give me the creeps- both the girls and the poor guys who buy into it.

But please don't assume all western women who marry/date Japanese men are like that! Most of us like Japanese men for other reasons, or simply like our man for who he is, with his culture/nationality being a non-issue.

[westsan]

well... smallworld,

what I say in response to that is:
I hate fake flowers myself... but they last so much longer and are so much sturdier that sometimes there is no choice. Its either silk or nothing.

[Shan]

Well, Westsan, is your wife a "fake flower"? Is that why you married her?

[westsan]

mine?
No

ahhh. Butt, arent all women Flowers? Mantlepeices?
If so wouldnt this be appropriate for woment to be somewhat superficial? But as for men???? I dont think it is.

Basicaly the analogy refers to that Japanese men may be a compromise for many western girls...
Japanese men may even be a more stable coupling model for some western girls...
But it is likely that love & an eternity with a j-guy is not where her desires lie
(pun intentional)

Just as a guy would dump a girl with smaller boobs, a smaller waist, and a better ___
a girl would would dump a guy with a with significantly less (less anything), with all other factors considered equal.

In some situatins a woman may elect for stability in a man over bigger and better but I think that women being the sentimental beings that they are would prefer the prince charming type... and this is not the typical image of a Japanese guy amongst western girls.

My point that it is highly likely that many western girls dating Japanese guys must compromise their image of Mr. Right(Adonis) to sleep with Japanese guys -- much less to seriously marry one.



[hr]NOTE: The above comments do not neccessarily represent the authors opinion; they are presented solely for the purpose of DEBATE. Hopefully we can continue this discussion in a constructive manner and thru debate ellicit the true motivation of gaijin in Japan.

[curry]

westsan,

I agree with some of the things u say, and disagree with some of the others ( as always..:-))

Your post suggests, in an off-hand way, that guys would settle for anything...but not girls, since they are more sentimental "type"...hmmm....I think not....also, wouldn't a more sentimental "type" mean that they stick to the person they like, without looking out for Prince Charming in other guys...with bigger and better deals...just a thought...

"But it is likely that love & an eternity with a j-guy is not where her desires lie (pun intentional)."...that is your perception of a G-gal's desires...may not be hers....

However, in a way, you are mostly right about Japanese guys....that is a subjective view, of course...

[Shan]

I don't know why you would say that, Westsan. All women are not looking for the best-looking man to marry; some of us do care about other things such as intelligence, personality, the way he cares about us, etc. For many women, they may find a Japanese partner who fulfills them; not being a woman, I'm surprised that you would be so certain in your comments. Coming from the guy who started the "All gaijin think they are so damn hot" thread, I'm surprised at your comments. Unless of course you include yourself in the group who think they're so much better than Japanese people?

[jguylover]

How about this: if I sleep with a gaijin, I believe I am lowering my standards.
Adonis? I say Kimutaku is an Adonis! I know I worship at his shrine daily! (^^)
I'm getting a hardon just thinking about him!

As for girls loving to be put upon a pedestal and worshipped...well, yes! Isn't that the point?? Why would I wanna date a guy who secretly thought I was ugly, but dated me because of my "good personality"?? If a guy isn't interested in tearing my clothes off the instant he sees me, I don't need him. It's all about Passion, guys, with capital P. No passion, no sex??? I'd rather just kill myself now, thank you.

And sorry, this may PO some of the other girls here, but a good personality doesn't mean jack if you don't take care of yourself and try to have some sex appeal. It goes both ways- I know I wouldn't date any guy, no matter how "nice" he was, unless he was sexually appealing to me, ie. sexy, good looking, muscular, (and of course, Japanese!) So neither can we girls can't go walking around in sweats with our hair all sicking out, with a creme donut in hand and expect guys to fall all over us for our "personality."

And before you go jumping in to tell me I'm shallow, remember that looks do count, but as we all have different "types", there is always gonna be someone for everyone. Ex. I love Kimutaku, and think Shingo is a dog. But my friend loves Shingo. Ergo, I get Kimutaku, she gets Shingo. Everybody happy and sexually fullfilled! Yay!!

[markosonlines]

Everybody happy and sexually fulfilled!

except Kimutaku that is. haha

Markos

[Mahou]

jguylover...

females gets hardon too?

[Peko]

I'm a gaijin woman living with my J-man. Contrary to the experiences that other women here have had, my man really respects the fact that I don't spend 2 hours getting ready every time I go out. That's one of the reasons he likes dating gaijin women--lower maintenance.

And the reason I like him...it's because of who he is. Every gaijin and Japanese man I've dated has been different--I can't generalize what is better or worse about dating one or the other.

Though I must admit, since moving to Japan (about 3 years ago), I have developed a preference for Japanese men in terms of attraction. And damn, I would dump my man in a second for just one date with Kaneshiro Takeshi....

[jguylover]

Kaneshiro Takeshii?? YES, girls can get hardons!! (^^)

I don't take 2 hours to get ready, that's insane! I think 45 min at the most. I didn't mean to say that girls should have to always look like they just stepped out of Vogue- that's simply not realistic. I'm speaking of the kind of girls the gaijin guys here are always bitching about, ie "looks like a member of Pearl Jam". That was pretty funny, really, because it was somewhat true!! Then again, I've seen Jgirls in street fashion who also look that way....and it's considered "cool !"

[harmyne]

i dont have a jguy....but i dont like them coz of their culture..they usually discriminate women..

[shortcut]

One good tip though. Japanese men NEVER rapes!...or as far as I know. Never say NO when you mean YES :)

[jguylover]

that's an odd statement- of course there are Japanese men who rape! There is rape in every country, every society. It is an act of power, and has nothing to do with sex.

[paulh]

I suppose you dont know about the 28 year old student from Waseda who just got sent to prison after setting up a date club which attracted a lot of women and lots of drinking and he spiked their drinks. Women were virtually unconscious and gang raped by up to 6 guys at once. Most of the guys involved got prison terms as well as chucked out of university.

[Anonymous]

"got prison terms as well as chucked out of university".

Hahahahha, nice one there Paul....

With time and "selective" resume writing the prestige of Waseda will negate the "prison thing"? It's Waseda! This is Japan!

To paraphrase Yasuo Fukuda, "the woman are asking to be raped dressing like that".

[harmyne]

yeah there are also a lot of rape cases here... and most of the victim are minors...

most of japanese wives dont a have a voice in thier home... thats their culture... they look down women here... and they are a cold lover, my friend told me...

[Peko]

You can't generalize an entire culture by a few clueless men who discriminate against women. My Japanese man respects me and treats me as an equal. Every country has its share of ignorant people, as well as those who are truly worthwhile. While Japan's social norms may be a little behind Western countries as far as feminism goes, there are still lots of quality men out there who know better.

[AV]

Harmyne, where do you get your ideas from?
My J-guy certainly does not look down at me, he respects my opinions actually more than a Western guy would, he is more prepared to listen to me and has a LOT more patience than a Westerner. Yes, he respects my 'no', I like it. He is learning to read when I mean 'yes' by it too. :)) He is very caring, much more prepared to accept me as a person and a woman. He is passionate, but on a more deep, not superficial level. Yes, he can restrain his feelings and his temper, but I'd say it only makes him less whimsical then an average Western guy. The more I get into this relationship the more I realize I like him a lot more then I liked Western guys. He is just so much more masculine without being macho about it. Oh yes, and he is EXTREMELY good in sex, which might not be true for all Japanese guys of course.

[shortcut]

Didn't I say "as far as I know"?....Yes it is true that there are some lunatics out there, but I was talking about the Japanese men in general. I may have very limited experience with them, but I am married to one for the last 15 years. I have ample exposure though, since I run a club for the last two years. I noticed that though they may be very shy about expressing their feelings, they can be very loving, respectful and supportive towards their women. Like I said, I am referring to the ones I have encountered so far. I guess, we need to earn their respect and trust first, and like most men (Western and the likes) they are willing to please their women. And like everywhere, women should be careful too.

[jguylover]

"He is just so much more masculine without being macho about it"

I couldn't have said it better!!! You go girl. Jguys rule!
And all of them are good in bed. (^^)

[jguylover]

"He is just so much more masculine without being macho about it"

I couldn't have said it better!!! You go girl. Jguys rule!
And all of them are good in bed. (^^)

[westsan]

----------------------------------------------------------------

"He is just so much more masculine without being macho about it"

I couldn't have said it better!!! You go girl. Jguys rule!
And all of them are good in bed. (^^)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Jloverguy >>

Do you like uni?

[jguylover]

uni?? as in sea urchin? why do you ask me that? I don't mind telling you, I don't like it at all, nasty stuff!

[westsan]

Why do I ask??

As a kid until about 3-4 years ago I hated anything sour.
I just couldnt take it.
Strange enough I thouroughly enjoy sour things now. And often will forgo sweet items for the sour. Tastes and preferences change.

I too dont like Uni.
But every so often I try it just to make sure I dont like it.... or to see if my palette has changed about it.

You sound/have grown so adamant against G-guys but you might want to open your mind a little.

[jguylover]

good point! tastes DO change!
to be honest, I have met 3 gaijin guys this last 6m that I considered.....one turned out to be gay (shouganai ne!) one I dumped after he (very agressively) hit on my Japanese female friend, and the third is a good friend, and I'm still considering him! When he gets back from his vacation in the US, we have plans to go to a couple kissa. So, we'll see what happens! He's a really nice sweet guy, somehow I really like Canadians! (^^) However.........though I think he's nice-looking, it's mostly his attitude/personality that I like. I'm not all that sexually attracted to him. I could do it, but it wouldn't be as passionate or as much fun as the cute 21 yr. old Jguy I'm planning to seduce this weekend.

But I will keep your comments in mind!

[neogie]

girl.. where are you? I agree we should all go out and splash the town pink* hehe.. I prefer pink to red*

[westsan]

Thats the spirit girl.

Bcause otherwise it would be racism (<^!^>)

> a couple kissa

whaddya mean??? U mean swinger bars???

[buds]

couple kissa sounds like go-kon? to me
i dunno

[jguylover]

couple kissa is like a bar, where like minded couples can meet and swap. Sometimes they allow singles, though single guys usually have to be reccomended by another couple, and have to pay a LOT more to get in. single girls are free of course! (^^) lucky me!

[buds]

ooooh, i was SO wrong (*^^*)
thanks for sharing! *pun not intended*

[westsan]

couple kissa is like a bar, where like minded couples can meet and swap. Sometimes they allow singles, though single guys usually have to be reccomended by another couple, and have to pay a LOT more to get in. single girls are free of course! (^^) lucky me!

Looks like I found what im doing for St. Valentines Day

(Ohh and a happy valentines to all - xcept for the GP admin)

[A]

Ah, Valentine`s day reminds me. I read an interesting article in Japan Times on changing attitude`s of Japanese girls for Valentine`s day. Sorry it has no connection with this thread . Just thought it might be interesting for some of you.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20040213a3.htm

Tell me what do you think about it.

[buds]

i think that a lot of my female penpals have been wishing me happy valentines day, so that i can wish them the same.
thanks for the link! hope it happens over here too! eventually...

[Code Rot]

To Jguylover:

It is popularly believed that rape is about power, not sex, but some recent studies have contested this view. Perhaps rape is really about sex after all! That is, a guy really wants to have sex now and he can't, so he rapes a woman. He's a lowlife and should be punished for this, of course -- but you should at least try to acknowledge rape for what it is. It is a sympton of the overriding male urge for sex. Deep down, I don't think rapists are having orgasms over the fact that they have just humiliated a woman -- they have orgasms over the fact that they are having sex.



Post Edited (03-08-04 23:32)