google translator

[afronathan]

is it just me or it it made of fail

no matter what i type it ends up wrong

i type

hello it comes out as こんにちは
so i type こんにちは and it comes out as "today"

i type おやすみなさい　(which i hope is right)and it comes out as
"be completed cripes"????


am i just fail at typing 日本語　or is google just really bad?

[kurogane]

is it just me or it it made of fail

no matter what i type it ends up wrong

i type

hello it comes out as こんにちは
so i type こんにちは and it comes out as "today"

i type おやすみなさい　(which i hope is right)and it comes out as
"be completed cripes"????


am i just fail at typing 日本語　or is google just really bad?


おはよう！sounds to me like Google is farged.

But, what have you got against 'completed cripes'?

Reading that made me spit coffee.

Here's a better online dictionary. It is not a translator, though

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/

[afronathan]

so am i slightly wrong?


btw what are cripes, it wont wikipedia

[kurogane]

so am i slightly wrong?

btw what are cripes, it wont wikipedia

You're not wrong, but the answers you got from Google certainly are! I would try to not rely on electronic translators too much. They don't seem to work for anyting, much less Japanese to English or vice versa.

btw, こんにちは　does actually just mean Today......

It's adoption as a greeting is customary; it is used as an entry into a conversation:

こんいちは、どうですか？

Ｓｏ, how are you / how are things today?

The abbreviation to its use as a greeting similar to Hello or Good Day is an adopted custom.

In a similar sense, Ohayou Gozaimasu literally means:

it is morning

but its customary use is similar to Good Morning, especially when said with a bright and cheery tone like the tall secretary with the big round bottom at the museum I worked at used to do.

Also, おやすみなさい means literally:

get some rest

but in context, it means Good Night, Sleep Well, etc.

Now, as for the Cripes Problem:

According to dictionary.com:

cripes [krahyps] –interjection (used as a mild oath or an exclamation of astonishment

[metalli-kurisu]

Google translator is abysmal.

Haven't tried Babelfish, but an educated guess would tell me it's not that great either.

[Moobies]

http://www.alc.co.jp/

I like eijiro for its breadth/depth of collocations for a given word. Helps you get a big picture of connotations and denotations.

[Fujay]

alc.co.jp is great, I use it all the time at work. Excellent resource. But its a dictionary not a translator.

Although translators are useless if you ask me. They just cant translate with any kind of reasonable accuracy. Its almost always intelligible.

I think they have a term for translating something from one language into another and then back into the first language with a translator - its called boomerang translation or something like that.

[Nanbanjin]

In a similar sense, Ohayou Gozaimasu literally means:

it is morning

but its customary use is similar to Good Morning, especially when said with a bright and cheery tone like the tall secretary with the big round bottom at the museum I worked at used to do.

おはよう means "you are early". It's derived from お早く . It was originally intended for use by people who have turned up already for people who turn up later. So it's like saying 早く来たね
It is still used in this way to some degree. If you are on a late shift for work people will still say おはよう.
You also hear this usage sometimes when someone who is late to work retorts to おはよう with 突っ込むな！

[Nanbanjin]

Google translator is abysmal.

Haven't tried Babelfish, but an educated guess would tell me it's not that great either.

I use Babelfish at work sometimes if I have to read something in German. I speak no German (I'm of German heritage buy my anscestors stopped using the language during WWI) but what comes out is usually quite intelligible.
I suppose it's always going to be better between European languages.

[Pkl]

It's that damn japanese way of not having spaces between words that's doing you in.

Is it one word? Is it seven? YOU...JUST...DON'T...KNOW! Or at least Google doesn't.

At this stage of my learning, I wouldn't be sure if

こんにちはやすみです

is "Hello, it's my break"

or

"Today is a holiday"

Curses.

[Fujay]

You are wrong.

http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?p=489396#post489396
Post 3.

[Fujay]

While konnichwa technically means 'today', it is never used in speech that way. It's always a greeting. There are other ways to express today that are used.

[Pkl]

While konnichwa technically means 'today', it is never used in speech that way. It's always a greeting. There are other ways to express today that are used.

Right, but you COULD use it if you wanted to. Google's problem isn't that it's incorrect as such, it's just looking at the words a different way than we are.

When I come across a paragraph of Japanese that is mainly new words, it can be difficult to just seperate them, never mind begin to translate.

[Nanbanjin]

A decent translator would be able to make a distinction between today and hello from こんにちは

Both きょうは and こんにちは derive from 今日は . However, こんいちは is not written using kanji, so a good software translator would be able to tell the difference.

But that wasn't your point I guess. Not having spaces between words makes life a bit difficult, but people seem to manage it based on some kind of logic so given enough sophistication software should be able to as well.

[Moobies]

alc.co.jp is great, I use it all the time at work. Excellent resource. But its a dictionary not a translator.

Although translators are useless if you ask me. They just cant translate with any kind of reasonable accuracy. Its almost always intelligible.

I think they have a term for translating something from one language into another and then back into the first language with a translator - its called boomerang translation or something like that.

Backtranslating is translation of a source text that was originally a translation from the target language. Not sure what it is called if you are referring to the poetry that babelfish turns out when you do a E>J>E translation of the same text. Poetic gibberish from machine translation is fun!

I agree that online translators are useless. You've got too much context involved in most utterances that a computers logic won't be able to deal with like a trained bilingual would. EDIT: In reference to using a machine in place of a human for a functional text that you wish to use in business. If we're talking about getting the gist of something for personal use, I think they're great, and have used Breen when I want a quick overview of something with a lot of kanji that I can't be bothered looking up.

Breen has a translator function at his ejdict site.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html
But it doesn't turn out audience ready translations. It just breaks down the sentences/words to give you a picture of what an expression could mean.

[trip_hop]

Mac users can use the translator function in "sherlock", which is probably fair as machine translators go. Good for basic words, horrendous at proper names, nightmare with addresses.

A good test of any of these electronic versions is to immediately do a translation back into the original language.

It usually makes for a good gibberish generator, copy for a corporate mission statement, or material for Japanese T-shirts and carrier bags.

[Fujay]

Right, but you COULD use it if you wanted to.

Not really. As its never used, it functionally doesnt have the meaning of 'today'. No one would ever have any idea of what you were saying, which effectively defeats the use of the word.

I suppose you could use it as 'today' if you wanted, but you could also just say 'beblebable' to mean 'today', and people would understand you meant 'today' equally in both cases - which is to say not at all.


As to not having spaces in Japanese, I dont even notice it anymore. Kanji effectively separates words so that its actually quite easy to tell where one word ends and another begins the majority of the time. There are a few exceptions where kanji run together and it can be hard to tell, or where a couple hiragana/katakana words run together and it can also be hard to tell, but for the majority of the time the use of kanji, hiragana and katakana effectively separates words visually without the use of spaces.

[クロネコ]

I like this translator as it doesn't attempt at re-writing the sentences. I hardly use a translator though as it is often easier just to ask someone when I am unsure of what I am reading.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?9T

[Fujay]

Is it Charisma Season , or is the Seven Year Itch just kicking in again?

Just beacuse the Jpanese around you slow it down for you doesn't mean they always speak the way you think it works all the time.

Trying to elevate yourself above me again I see kurogane. You forget that I know you are a washed up old man. I called you out on it before, and Ill call you out on it again.

I know it makes you feel better about yourself to think that people slow down their Japanese for me, but unfortunately for you I work in a Japanese company with only one other foreigner, and no one dumbs anything down for me, cause they would be dumbing it down for each other as well.

Just cause you were too stupid to figure out how to keep yourself entertained while in Japan and got the 7 (and 8 and 9 and 10) year itch, doesnt mean we are all morons like you. Good try though, I know you would like to feel better about yourself hoping that others are as worthless as you were, and Im sure some people ae. But Im not one of them old man.

Keep trying old man. You cant elevate yourself above me though, cause you are just that, an old man that went back to his country cause he couldnt survive here, and realized he couldnt survive there either. I actually kind of feel bad for you though. It must suck to know that your life is pathetic.

Go buy another 5 dollar shirt, it may make you feel better about yourself. That instant gratification from purchases usually lasts a little while at least.

edit: removed word of mouth information that I couldn't back up through links.

[クロネコ]

To help matters I'd say that I understand neither FJ or KG's posts. Back on topic.

Google Toolbar is on it's Beta version so it shouldn't be expected to be great.

P.S. OP you should have included おやすみ as "cripes being completed!"

[クロネコ]

And to further delve into the mysteries of Google translate we have:

くろがね　= Don't you think?

ふーじぇい　= meaningless gibberish

Well, some might be tempted to put their faith into Google translator being the new magic eight ball of Japanese.

[Nanbanjin]

Not really. As its never used, it functionally doesnt have the meaning of 'today'. No one would ever have any idea of what you were saying, which effectively defeats the use of the word.


'Konnichi' is not often used to mean 'today', but to say that it functionally doesn't have this meaning is incorrect.

Konnichi can be used for emphasis when talking about 'today'.

For example,

わが社には戦後からこんにちまで、60数年の歴史があり。。。

This use of こんにち to mean 'today' is quite ligitimate.

[Pkl]

Trying to elevate yourself above me again I see kurogane.

You DID edit your post that told me that MOST people could understand it, to saying that YOU could do it with no problem while going on about a point that isn't important.

Who is the one trying to elevate himself...?

[Nanbanjin]

こんにち can also be used to mean today in sentences like

こんにちの若者

This is very similar to the use of the word 'today' in the English sentance "The youth of today".
Again this is functionally fine.

[Pkl]

こんにち can also be used to mean today in sentences like

こんにちの若者

This is very similar to the use of the word 'today' in the English sentance "The youth of today".
Again this is functionally fine.

Interesting stuff. I knew what "konnichiwa" was made up of, but until this topic I never considered that I could use it like the above.

[Fujay]

Haha! You make a good point make Pkl! but you dont need to elevate yourself when ur already at the top brother ;)

[Nanbanjin]

While konnichwa technically means 'today', it is never used in speech that way. It's always a greeting. There are other ways to express today that are used. I'm being a bit pedantic here, but even this is wrong.

Konnichwa(sic) is konnich, ('today' minus an i) and plus a wa.
The assertion that 'konnichiwa' is technically equivalent to 'today' is incorrect.

[kurogane]

my point was etymological, if that is what you two are on about.

If not, Never Mind.

[Nanbanjin]

Your explanation of the etymology of ohayo was wrong.

[cutyourhair]

Your explanation of the etymology of ohayo was wrong.

Those twilight years. You seem to forget so much.

For example, Japanese....

[kurogane]

Your explanation of the etymology of ohayo was wrong.

Says you and whose butai?

I think you are confusing a more literal etymological meaning with the derived meaning you analysed (and quite nicely), which comes from its industrial use, which is derived, and therefore, ipso facto, and ergo sum, not literal etymological, No!?

Vot!?

[Moobies]

Says you and whose butai?

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%AA%A4%CF%A4%E8%A4%A6&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=0
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%AA%A4%CF%A4%E8%A4%A6&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=1

三省堂提供「大辞林 第二版」より

[kurogane]

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%AA%A4%CF%A4%E8%A4%A6&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=0
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%AA%A4%CF%A4%E8%A4%A6&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=1

三省堂提供「大辞林 第二版」より

Too lazy.

Explain it to me. Preferably in monosyllabics. Am I not wrong, or am I not wrong? ;)

Damn I feel stoopid.

Why does beer make us so much smarter and more beautiful when we drink it, and so much uglier and stupid the next day?

[Moobies]

Too lazy.

Explain it to me. Preferably in monosyllabics. Am I not wrong, or am I not wrong? ;)

Damn I feel stoopid.

Why does beer make us so much smarter and more beautiful when we drink it, and so much uglier and stupid the next day?

It's just a dictionary link showing what nanbanjin was saying was accurate.

I suspect you might have picked up an apocryphal story from a well-meaning Japanese instructor (or drinking buddy) long ago. I wonder how much bogus word origin info I've passed on to my interested and competent students.

[kurogane]

It's just a dictionary link showing what nanbanjin was saying was accurate. .

Right, but surely just because what NBJ wrote was accurate doesn't necessarily mean that in itself makes what I wrote as per force inaccurate?

;)

Nanbanjin, Ippon!

Funny that CYH is getting in on it, though, eh!? That Stooge studied for 18,000 hrs and the poor retarded stoop couldn't even pass the JLPT.

I suspect you might have picked up an apocryphal story from a well-meaning Japanese instructor (or drinking buddy) long ago. I wonder how much bogus word origin info I've passed on to my interested and competent students.

Worse. I got it from an online etymological dictionary.

[Fujay]

Why does beer make us so much smarter and more beautiful when we drink it, and so much uglier and stupid the next day?

It doesnt. It just makes some people forget that they are stupid for a few hours.

...or a life - depends on if and when they stop drinking.

[Moobies]

Right, but surely just because what NBJ wrote was accurate doesn't necessarily mean that in itself makes what I wrote as per force inaccurate?

;)

Nanbanjin, Ippon!

Funny that CYH is getting in on it, though, eh!? That Stooge studied for 18,000 hrs and the poor retarded stoop couldn't even pass the JLPT.



Worse. I got it from an online etymological dictionary.

Well, I'll admit that I haven't sat a JLPT (or any japanese test for that matter ) since 2001 and that was only 2Q. Wonder how I'd fair at 1Q. Doubt I'd even by able to find 5 hours a week to study for it (I'd have to stop reading GP).

As for your source being an online etymological dictionary, who knows, there could be some disagreement about it's roots even amongst the Japanese linguists.

I prefer to exclaim asadachi to everyone in the morning anyway. I think it's much more polite. ;)

[afronathan]

I'll give you that it is in its BETA still, so what it is doing is translating it into its literal meaning?

[Moobies]

I'll give you that it is in its BETA still, so what it is doing is translating it into its literal meaning?

Machine translation (using a computer to do translation) is incapable of considering the context when examining words.

Think about the following english sentence:

Her cries of terror chilled my blood.

A native English speaker will (eventually) recognize that "cries of terror" and "chilled my blood" have various degrees of figurative meaning that could differ considerably from the definition of each constituent part of the phrase.

Imagine if a computer saw it and was unable to associate those words with each other or the context in which they were produced.

Cries might result in a word associated solely with a baby, sadness, etc. Whereas blood would probably most certainly be seen in only the physical sense.

So maybe if we translated that sentence from Eng>Jpn and then back to Eng, it might read.

The girl's frightened tears made my blood cold.

In principle at least...

[afronathan]

Looks like I need to get myself a Japanese Tutuor and start soon then

[Fujay]

You definitely dont want to be relying on an online translator. Lessons are much better.

[afronathan]

Trying to find lessons in BirminghAM UK sucks, evn though it is the second city.

[4141done]

best online tool I've found so far is the firefox plugin from Rika.com (http://rikaixul.mozdev.org/index.html)

Other than that, translations from other more similar languages like Korean tend to work way better. (http://translation.infoseek.co.jp/?ac=Text&lng=ko)

However, always take anything the machine tells you with a grain of salt. Check everything with pen pals/ Japanese friends/ teachers to make sure you're not committing anything erroneous to heart.

[クロネコ]

Trying to find lessons in BirminghAM UK sucks, evn though it is the second city.

You could give this lady an e-mail or better still call her up and ask her for more info. on where to study.

mailto:M.Yamashita@bham.ac.uk

Miyoko Yamashita has an MA in something apparently.

There are short courses you can take at the University too:

http://www.cml.bham.ac.uk/open/index.htm

[afronathan]

I had a look at all those courses but none of them seemed right to me, they have to taken with another language or business but thanks for the advise

[クロネコ]

I had a look at all those courses but none of them seemed right to me, they have to taken with another language or business but thanks for the advise

Yeah, if it were a more flexible it would have been better.

Still contact Ms. Yamashita though because she can probably put you in contact with a private tutor. It is likely she has friends who may actually teach you for free. It all depends. But as she is Japanese, connected with teaching and has an MA in something I reckon she would be clued up enough to know what is going on and in B'mgham.

Japan or the UK I have found that profs. find it surprising when you call them up and tell them you read something of theirs or you think that they are the only person who could possibly help you with you question..nice bit of ego flattery.

Even though you have no intention of going to the Uni. she may even be able to work out a study plan for how you could study if you approach her with the "I really want to learn and I wanted to ask the best person in the area for advice" kind of approach.

The spin-offs could lead to more contacts inside Japan, etc.

You never know.

Or simply she could be a real b!tch and say she has no time to help. Send an e-mail, ask if you can take some of her time. Go in and see her, or chat on the phone. If that fails then put it in an e-mail. I would do both. Talk on the phone, send a thank you e-mail, etc.