Non-white Gaijin

[dragon0787]

Im currently a high school student from the Chicago area who went on a two-week trip to Japan through our high school with some friends and two high schools in Japan. Im a fair-skinned Filipino-American and most of my friends that were with me were Caucasian, with the blonde hair and blue eyes . While in Japan, it felt as though I was "looked over" or not as important as the other students. I would walk around with one my hakujin friends and japanese students would run up to him and want a pic with him and jus kinda look at me funny. Im not really upset about this particular experience in Japan, but I wonder if im seen as less of an 'American'. I study Japanese and a I aspire to live/work in Japan someday. What is it like to be a westerner but not exactly 'appear' to be one?

[Morning Star]

Dragon;
First let me just say welcome. You answered your own question in the post. You asked what it's like to be a non-anglo/saxon looking American in Japan and then described what happened when you came. They even regard Japanese-Americans as something strange and not quite Japanese.
Of course they don't intend to disqualify you as an American, but if you don't look like Tom Cruise or Leonarudo Decapurio they will see you as an American transplant. Not nearly as exciting as meeting the "real" thing.
The good news is if you have solid goals when you come over here, it won't matter. You'll just miss out on being treated like a token. There's some sport here in putting hakujins on pedastals and then knocking them down, and it's better to avoid that altogether.
Cheers

[Manuel]

Would this happen to be in Tokyo? I'm not really knocking Tokyo jin. In fact, I do have quite a number of friends there (Nihonjin jousei, I might add). Anyway, I think I might know how you feel. I am from Southern California. I'm a Mexican American, living in the Osaka area. In my opinion, I find Osaka jin a little more friendlier and open than Tokyo jin. I am sure that in many parts of Japan, dark and non haku jin are just as attractive. And I'm just starting to find that out for myself. Just look your best and be yourself. That's all!

[Ageless]

Dragon,
First, don`t let this even deter you from coming to Japan, there`s a big mix of nationalities in Japan now and it`s an encouraging sign. One of my good friends is from Australia but is third generation Chinese, in other words he looks Chinese but speaks only English. He even looks Japanese, and we get amused by his situation but try not to let the confusion deter him in any way. Often, people will speak Japanese to him, only to realise that he isn`t. Some can notice that he doesn`t look Japanese but may still believe he can speak Japanese since he looks asian. The good points are that you will be able to live without noticing any noticeable looks or stares of curiosity. This bugs some people until they get used to it. You won`t have this to deal with. The point to work on will be how to approach people the fact that you look less that an American, a good way to improve on your Japanese quickly.

peace.

[kurogane]

Ummm, Koizumi, U R getting weirder than me. Keep up the good work.

The rest of you: Nice. In particular, Ageless' story seems quite common. A good sense of humour certainly can't hurt. They are after all, a weird people. Almost as weird as the people where I come from. And that blending in thing would be nice. (He says hypocritically, having spent large parts of his adult life trading on his tragically white self. ;) )

Dragonboy,
There have been a few other threads on this site about similar topics, so take a look around. Probably the Coming to Japan section?? ;)

[Bluedog]

"Tell you what, I'll make a deal : I' ll stop using ___ the moment Japs stop calling me 'gaijin'. Fair?"

For a mullet-sporting shemale who likes to get liquored up and pretend to be a neurotic woman, you do have a point there son.

In other news, Bluedog claims back Japa's pocky and runs off to start his own forum called Jappot.com, a meet and greet site for Japanese with a penchant for online bingo.

[kurogane]

Hee Hee Hee.

All your Pocky are good for tang. You have your own ____, so no extra.

Did you reery say Bingo??????????

[sincity]

dragon,
Let me give it to you straight up, no chaser.

If you look Filipino, you will likely not be mistaken for someone who speaks Japanese so I don't think you'll find yourself in any of those "amusing" situations that Ageless described. I don't think you'll be in many amusing situations at all....

There are many Filipinos here but the vast majority of them are in the "entertainment" industry or have menial jobs. In the hierarchy of gaijins in Japan, you should know that Filipinos are near the bottom.

As you are an American, however, your ethnicity shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not you succeed here. I'm just saying that it might be a good idea to always wear an American button or drape yourself in red, white and blue. (You can probably get away with that in Japan; I wouldn't advise in most other countries.)

The hard truth is that people will prejudge you and you won't pull as many chicks as the Anglo types. But people's prejudices can be overcome, at least locally. And I'm sure a lot of hotties will fall for your exotic charms.

"War of words..."Sounds ridiculous actually. Nobody dies on this forum so what we say has very little import. So let's all chill. It's Happy Hour...Time for me to fly.

[Brown_Recluse]

But what if the Asian is half-Korean/half-White and looks like a White American? In other words, how do Japanese people treat someone of an unclear race or nationality?

[imTony]

sincity,

If stealing them will convince him to rally together with all of the sane-minded to lick the giant bush... then he can have them. I can always get new ones.

[wonderful]

But what if the Asian is half-Korean/half-White and looks like a White American? In other words, how do Japanese people treat someone of an unclear race or nationality?

Im with u Brown_Recluse. I am 75% black and 25% white. (My father is mother is black and father is white). So even here in america people have trouble telling what i am. I am not dark skined and am often confuse to be puerto rican. So i also ask the same question how do Japanese people treat someone of an unclear race or nationality

[paulh]

Im with u Brown_Recluse. I am 75% black and 25% white. (My father is mother is black and father is white). So even here in america people have trouble telling what i am. I am not dark skined and am often confuse to be puerto rican. So i also ask the same question how do Japanese people treat someone of an unclear race or nationality

There are only two kinds of people in japan:

japanese and "gaijin" i.e. non-Japanese. there are many different kinds of gaijin (Korean-American, caucasians, Filipinas, Arabs, but we are all the same in the eyes of Japanese and dont make a big deal over your hybridness. They will know you are gaijin and foreign and thats it. There are black people, brown people and white people and all shades in between. Japanese only really seem to really just make distinctions between Japanese and non-Japanese people.

FWIW I have two mixed-blood kids, the older passes for a browned haired Japanese and the younger one had light brown hair and western features. They look 'mixed' but have no problems whatsoever being accepted here.

[madmaxxam]

There are only two kinds of people in japan:

japanese and "gaijin" i.e. non-Japanese. there are many different kinds of gaijin (Korean-American, caucasians, Filipinas, Arabs, but we are all the same in the eyes of Japanese and dont make a big deal over your hybridness. They will know you are gaijin and foreign and thats it. There are black people, brown people and white people and all shades in between. Japanese only really seem to really just make distinctions between Japanese and non-Japanese people.

This runs counter to a few conversations I've had with Japanese people. According to many, there is actually some distinction between the gaijin, and many Japanese, especially of older generations, tend to dislike black people more than others. Why? I'm not sure exactly, but I have talked about this to a few natives. For example, some parents who are ok with a mixed marriage might not be quite as happy with a marriage to a black man. Not so much of a problem in the younger gen though.

[wonderful]

Well, I went on different sites and it was said that black are great for having fun with but not someone who you would marry. Others viewed blacks as lazy and are not willing to work hard. I had a chat with a japanese guy and we talked about all kind of things. I even showed him a picture of me but when I told him that I was biracial. He was completely shocked. He told me that he had no idea that people like me thought like that and said he found me quite interesting. I ask the question because I was wondering if I would be viewed the same way when I come to Japan next summer.

[madmaxxam]

Well, it's all in who you meet anyway. I mean, do you want to become friends with people who stereotype in the first place? In any culture there will be people who stereotype, and people who don't. Avoid those that do when you can. If it's someone like a landlord, it can make your life difficult, but in terms of meeting friends it shouldn't be a problem.

[hypertokyo]

Race or color is an important signifier of socio-economic status to Japanese people, and depending on their perceptions of your 'group', race may initially inform their interactions with you. But in Japan, an underlying political philosophy of racism or supremacism ( which informs the 'skinhead' movements in Europe, or the 'White Power' movement in North America) does not exist. And in longer acquaintances, Japanese people are able to overlook race almost entirely.
So if you look African, for example, some Japanese people will shun you because they think your 'group' is poor and uneducated, while some will seek your friendship because they think 'Black' culture is cool. But they will not spit at you or beat you for being a member of an 'inferior race', like they might in Moscow.

[Morning Star]

Correction HyperTokyo,
They will spit at you. I don't know if they spit at each other or not, but I've had people passing by spit at my feet. I've also had a passerby kick my foot as I was sitting down right before he escaped onto a train. They don't have the cajones to confront you directly, but they will subtly make their racism known to you.

You also don't have much choice in who you work with. I had a manager who didn't like the fact that I was working in the same company as him and he constantly verbally berated me. Needless to say I quit, but not before receiving a healthy dose of Japanese bigotry.

As for being black, I don't think its much different than in America. Would your parents be happy if your sister decided to marry a black guy? Not until they got to know him. I worked with a lady who married a black guy in Hawaii and although there was some tension in her family about it they were able to accept him. I had a black roommate here in Japan (in a rural area nonetheless) and he seemed well adjusted. People weren't afraid of him and didn't treat him differently, at least no differently than other foreigners. He was, of course, a 'token', but no more a token than the rest of us here.

[wonderful]

I was dating this white guy and when I got a chance to mean his parents. He told me that you have to understand that my parent my act kinda weird. When I finally meet them, his father said "Oh I thought she was a black girl" . I told him I was and he apologized. What he said kinda reminded me of high school and how the kids treated me. I even had family members tell be I'm not black or called me a mutt. sorry to get off the subject it just that Morning Star post kinda made me remember

[Morning Star]

Wonderful,
Are you living in Japan right now? If so have you run across any racism like that among Japanese people?
It must have been really difficult for you, since it was your boyfriends family and all. I've said my share of completely senseless things around the brothers, and unfortunately my skin is so pale, it's easy to see me blush. Live and Learn, people (myself included) are idiots. Luckily we can change and learn from our mistakes. Try not to take ignorance too seriously.

[sincity]

Race or color is an important signifier of socio-economic status to Japanese people, and depending on their perceptions of your 'group', race may initially inform their interactions with you.

Yeah, I used to be carried through the streets like the winning manager of the Japan Series because of my racial superiority. They made me their champion and in return I championed them at every opportunity.

When a Canadian friend said to me that Japanese people were really weird, I accused her of being a racist. That was over 10 years ago. I guess I'd have to agree with her today. They're wack!! They are the maddest hatters on the planet and I love them for it!

A good Japanese friend of mine who studied in the US and knows every Stones' song by heart recently asked me if white people can sh*t and ____ simultaneously. I know why he asked (any Japanese literature buffs out there?) but it's still WACK!

That's why I'm always looking for the Midori-chan. You really need to be high in this country. Cuz you will get spat on and tripped up from time to time. Bucho, pass that joint!

I can't seem to remember what my point was...I think I was gonna thank Hypertokyo for that education. But in the end, Morning Star said it best: " Try not to take ignorance too seriously."

[wonderful]

Wonderful,
Are you living in Japan right now? If so have you run across any racism like that among Japanese people?
It must have been really difficult for you, since it was your boyfriends family and all. I've said my share of completely senseless things around the brothers, and unfortunately my skin is so pale, it's easy to see me blush. Live and Learn, people (myself included) are idiots. Luckily we can change and learn from our mistakes. Try not to take ignorance too seriously.

No I’m not in Japan now. I haven't been yet but I will be there as an exchange student 2006. I have to wait that long because I have to have 2 years of Japanese before I can go. School requires it. I’ve learned not to take ignorance too seriously. I’ve been confronted with it often so I’ve learned how to deal with it. Sometime it put in my face but most of the time its behide my back. Believe it or not some peoples ignorance has benefited me. Even though I hated high school it has thought me to but a thick skin on when it come to ignorance and racism

[ShitagiDorobo]

It's not necessarily true in general but I have met some japanese people who dislike Africans. They don't necessarily dislike black people, but may assume that a black person is African when they first meet him. One person told me it was because they used to work in Roppongi, and the Africans they served there tended to be very rude and rough.

On the otherhand, I've heard of a number of Japanese girls who refuse to date any one but black men

[ali_gore]

yea i heard that too. a friend of mine said that a lot of his japanese co workers tried to aviod him until he showed his passport that said he was an american

[kurogane]

Kurogane very frustrated. Why not people make nice to each other. Please. All peoples, makey humpy humpy, not bumpy bumpy.
On the other hand, a lot of those African pimp boys around Kabukicho could do with a good head tune up. They can be real F%heads. Sort of like the Japanese pimps, except that the latter tend to ignore me. Thank god I look the dumb white part.
Over ran out.

[Manuel]

I don't know about the Japanese young pimps in Kabukicho, but the ones in Dotombori in Osaka are UGLY!!!!!! I guess they think they look cool with the black suits, but they are in dire need of some serious dental work, if you know what I mean. I don't even notice if they are ignoring me or not.

[madmaxxam]

I don't know about the Japanese young pimps in Kabukicho, but the ones in Dotombori in Osaka are UGLY!!!!!! I guess they think they look cool with the black suits, but they are in dire need of some serious dental work, if you know what I mean. I don't even notice if they are ignoring me or not.

I try to avoid Dotonbori for the most part. There are some fun places to go to in the area, but I just feel like it is so sleezy. I've also noticed some real human depravity there...

[lysanderinlove]

I hear ya brother! That place is sodom and gomorrah all rolled into one ugly festering sore. Even that I could forgive, but the teeth of most of those punks around there really are disgusting! Jeez, they make even British people's teeth look good!
(Before all you Brits start a flame war, remember that teeth aside, I really do you love ya all!)

[lysanderinlove]

After all, you did give the world Shakespeare and DECENT rock 'n' roll!

[madmaxxam]

After all, you did give the world Shakespeare and DECENT rock 'n' roll!

And you somehow forgot some of their most important contributions to society, like British humor: Monty Python standing out among many others.

[Manuel]

Yes, you're right. I am American, but I definitely like British humor. You're also right about their teeth, too. Yes, Monty Python is great, but I miss the old stuff like Mr. Bean and Fawlty Towers. They're great too. I miss that line in Fawlty Towers " You naughty, naughty, little boy!" I was in Dotombori only that one time. There are some good points, too.

[Morning Star]

And don't forget the British food!

Nastiest grease soaked overcooked shet on earth.

They actually call rice a vegetable.

[madmaxxam]

And don't forget the British food!

Nastiest grease soaked overcooked shet on earth.

They actually call rice a vegetable.

I was trying to forget it Morning Star, but you made me remember.

And yes, Fawlty Towers is a great show. I got my father the DVD box set for his last birthday. That's why I said "standing out among others." I think Python is the most well known, but there are more than I can think to enumerate now.

Oh, another thing unfortunately given to much of the world by England... Cricket. I just don't understand the game. If some more worldly person would care to explain it...

[Mononoke_hime]

What if you're half chinese and half japanese who grew up in an English boarding school and spent the last 10 years of your life studying in France speaking a very rusty japanese? I've got a job in Osaka, and I'm wondering if I should give this a try or stay in Paris?

How do most Japanese view Chinese people in general? I know that my parents can't stand each other anymore and are effectively separated and that my maternal grand parents never seem happy seeing me? ....

merci

[Morning Star]

In general, the Chinese are seen as crooks.

Anytime a house gets robbed or someone gets killed there's a dull murmur about Chinese people in Japan, Chinese mafia, and how the Chinese don't have the same values as Japanese. Also the obligatory, "Watch out for / don't get mixed up with foreigners, they're dangerous."

Too bad about your folks and grandparents anyway. You can't choose your family, thank god you can choose your friends.

[lysanderinlove]

My old hometown is something of a resort for overseas ESL students and you'd be surprised at the number of young Japanese who used to get into trouble with locals and the police for drunk and disorderly behavior. I'm not saying there were thousands, but there were enough of such incidents for them to get something of a reputation. Funny thing is, when I tell Japanese people today about this they refuse to believe me or insist: "weren't you confusing them with Chinese?"

Just something to think about when Japanese or Japan-loving foreigners trot out that tired line "the Japanese never behave badly abroad".

[paulh]

You might not know this but four Japanese youths are appearing in court for murder in New Zealand after beating up a 17 year old Japanese boy tying him up and throwing him of a bridge while he was still alive. The kid drowned.

A case happened last year while I was at home where 9 japanese youths at a school for troubled youths beat a mildly retarded Japanese boy to death at a japanese school in New Zealand. The Japanese headmaster was also arrested for covering up the death, and the boys were found to be overstaying their student visas.

Must be the Chinese' fault.

[kurogane]

Must be the Chinese' fault.
Has it struck anyone else, the irony of The Yellow Peril having their own chimerical Yellow Peril? Kurogane feels sad.

[madmaxxam]

You might not know this but four Japanese youths are appearing in court for murder in New Zealand after beating up a 17 year old Japanese boy tying him up and throwing him of a bridge while he was still alive. The kid drowned.

A case happened last year while I was at home where 9 japanese youths at a school for troubled youths beat a mildly retarded Japanese boy to death at a japanese school in New Zealand. The Japanese headmaster was also arrested for covering up the death, and the boys were found to be overstaying their student visas.

Must be the Chinese' fault.

People murder people. It's human nature. I mean just the other night I was in an alley in Umeda and...

Seriously though, of course the Japanese will blame their problems on some other group, that IS human nature. Odd that it's the Chinese though and not us whiteys. We stand out a lot more. Or maybe it's because that they can sometimes blend in a bit more that the Chinese are the targets of more racism.

Oh, and Kurogane, did I see you in Osaka last night/this morning at a ramen shop? Big white guy who looked 35 - 40, wearing really dopey clothes and slurping down ramen at 5:30 - 6:00 AM by Dotonbori with a girl who was obviously better looking than he deserved. I was that white guy with the large group of Japanese buddies.

[Manuel]

That is really early to be slurping noodles in Dotonburi; and with a girl? Were you partying all night?

[Manuel]

Sorry about mispelling your name.

[madmaxxam]

That is really early to be slurping noodles in Dotonburi; and with a girl? Were you partying all night?

Of course I was partying all night, and I was with 6 other people. We had just driven back from Kobe, and I guess most of them wanted Ramen because that's what you eat after a night of drinking.

[kurogane]

Oh, and Kurogane, did I see you in Osaka last night/this morning at a ramen shop? Big white guy who looked 35 - 40, wearing really dopey clothes and slurping down ramen at 5:30 - 6:00 AM by Dotonbori with a girl who was obviously better looking than he deserved. I was that white guy with the large group of Japanese buddies.
You cruising for a bruising there Maxxie? :p
Nope, not me. I don't wear dopey clothes (more a sort of rumpled cool look), and no girl is ever better looking than I deserve, dammit. I am Kurogane, the Iron Barbarian, fer chrissakes.
But seriously, I never drink in Osaka, I just work there. As for Dotonbori, yuk. I hate that neighbourhood. Have you found any cool bars, etc. around there? Anyhoo, keep up the good work there.

[madmaxxam]

You cruising for a bruising there Maxxie? :p
Nope, not me. I don't wear dopey clothes (more a sort of rumpled cool look), and no girl is ever better looking than I deserve, dammit. I am Kurogane, the Iron Barbarian, fer chrissakes.
But seriously, I never drink in Osaka, I just work there. As for Dotonbori, yuk. I hate that neighbourhood. Have you found any cool bars, etc. around there? Anyhoo, keep up the good work there.

Just kidding with you of course Kurogane. I remember something about you supposedly being a big guy, and this was a big guy, so the thought Kurogane popped into my mind. I didn't actually think it was you though.

I really don't hang around Dotonbori all that much, I was really only there as a slave to circumstance last night. Usually when I'm out for the night it's in Umeda or Shinsaibashi. I didn't even get down to Dotonbori until about 5 am. Usually Dotonbori is a bit too sleazy for me.

[kurogane]

Natch on the kidding bit, there, Mad Max. I was just shckrewing around too. I was mildly insulted by the dopey clothes comment, though. I may be older, but that doesn't mean I dress like a knob ;)

As for my size, I am big here, but not big for most of Us. Except for the business end of course (yada yada yada).
I agree about Dotonbori. Doesn't hold too much attraction for me. Too sleazy, not enough fun people.
Anyhooo,
Night All.

[sleep]

Mononoke what s your nationality? If you are French, you ll be Ok introducing yourself as French with asian roots. If you mention you are Chinese, even half, you are in for a tough treatment whether directly or indirectly.
There s still a lot of racism out there though it has really improved these last 10 years.
In general coming from a western country but looking asian has both plus and minus points. Plus points are if you are here to improve on your japanese language. People mistake you as Japanese so your chances to practice are plenty and you get a pretty cool challenge of trying to pass for a Japanese as long as possible. Caucasians often don t get that chance and are spoken to directly in English even if they try to speak Japanese. Or even if people speak in Japanese to them, they will often use very simple language.
I also noticed that if your Japanese is decent and you look Japanese, you are more easily treated as a local by colleagues whereas caucasians are always treated with some distance even though some have been in Japan forever and speak perfect japanese.
Now minus points are if you are here to teach a western language or represent a western company. They still think that if you come from America or Europe you got to be white or else you are not the real thing. As a result, you will always be given less importance than the western looking guy and definitely students will prefer going to the caucausian guy's class or business partners will automatically think the caucasian has a higher rank than you in your company.
My 2 cents is it s fun to stay here a while to catch the language but thinking of moving here permanently is mad for a foreigner whereever you come from and however you may look like.

[lysanderinlove]

I agree with Sleep. The racial consciousness of the Japanese is always switched on. Image is just about everything here. Style over substance every time as far as the locals are concerned. You've gotta look the part, or they just won't take you seriously. I've got a British friend who is of Indian origin, and he has a hard time getting english teaching work despite the fact he is British and a perfectly good native speaker. On the other hand (a thumb and four fingers!) A Chinese-American dude that I know often gets mistaken for a local (his Japanese is pretty good) and if we ever go out together the Japanese always talk to him first, in Japanese.

As Sleep put it, this isn't a very nice place for the long-term foreigner because you will never be accepted. That's fine while you're still young, but as you head towards middle age it's a scary and depressing thought. You basically have very few rights and you'll always be seen as an 'outsider', no matter how hot you think your Japanese is. My advice to foreigners contemplating coming to Japan is make sure you have an exit strategy BEFORE you arrive. Plan to stay here no more than a year or two, otherwise you'll get sucked in for the long haul and your options will start diminishing rapidly. Believe me, I speak from personal experience on this....

[madmaxxam]

Ah yes, the reasons I'm getting the hell out of Japan. It took me all of about 2-3 weeks here to realize such things. Of course I came here with the intention of a shorter term stay. Even at my ripe young age, it's still depressing sometimes when I realize what an outsider I am for the most part.

As far as the Japanese people speaking to you in English or bad Japanese, usually when they talk to me they don't, until I thrown in a couple of ちょっとわからへん。 Well, maybe about 50/50. I of course try to hold back on those, because I want to practice my Japanese. When I went to the post office yesterday I had quite the time, and even when it got a bit difficult, she just slowed down a bit, so I was happy. Maybe it's because of where I live though.

[paulh]

IAs Sleep put it, this isn't a very nice place for the long-term foreigner because you will never be accepted. That's fine while you're still young, but as you head towards middle age it's a scary and depressing thought. You basically have very few rights and you'll always be seen as an 'outsider', no matter how hot you think your Japanese is. My advice to foreigners contemplating coming to Japan is make sure you have an exit strategy BEFORE you arrive. Plan to stay here no more than a year or two, otherwise you'll get sucked in for the long haul and your options will start diminishing rapidly. Believe me, I speak from personal experience on this....

Lysander


Just curious - how long have you been here?

I have lived here 17 years and have passed the 40-mark.

Not sure about 'being accepted' and what that entails and Im not sure that Id want to be. Im not Japanese and I dont try to be something that Im not and its possible to get ahead in ths country on your terms rather than worry 'being accepted and hoping they willl like you, Just being yourself you dont set yourself up for rejection and disappointment. You dont have to be the 'ugly American' but making an effort by 'doing in Rome as the Romans do is appreciated. I will always be the 'gaijin' and you learn to live with it after a while.

There are obvious drawbacks you experience as a foriegner (I will never be fullly tenured or a dean at my university for example) and though people dont expect me to speak Japanese they dont think any the worse for it. Its probably harder if you are 40 and working at an 'entry-level' type teaching job though such as as a conversation school, where you get lumped in with 20 year olds. I find you get more respect the better the kind of job you are doing and if you have more responsibility in accordance with your age and experience.

Obviously if you live anywhere for any length of time you become out of the loop at home, lose contact with friends or time to develop other job skills. You have to either develop skills while you are here, or make sure you have a back up plan. Many come here for a year, end up staying ten and find they are stuck here with no other job skills than teach English.

[kurogane]

Kurogane agrees with Willy Shakespeare, Maxxie, and Sleep, but I think paulh's comments were the most balanced. I can pass on the phone when I am in the mood, but my Tragically White demeanour means that face to face first meetings will always be a bit of a Three Stooges meets The Marx Brothers routine. Here in Kansai, you can actually have a fair bit of fun with that stuff, though, as long as you are humorous but not edgy. Also, as Paul said, occupational status still carries such weight here that as soon as I mention what I do, everything seems to fall into place. Except for the real morons, but I meet just as many of those types back home.
Having said that, I still have no plans to settle here permanently. I get too tired of being The Outsider, and the skiing is better at home. So is the sushi, for that matter.
Was that worth two yen?

[Positronius]

Dragon:

welcome to my world! during my 4 years of uni in Vancouver I tried hook up with soooo many hottie Persian chicks, but they werent having any of this scottish/italian sausage!

some races prefer certain races.......its tough. Certain individuals will always slip through the cracks though ;)

[Bluedog]

" I can pass on the phone when I am in the mood"

Not to discredit your japanese, but this is easier than I would have thought. I think the idea that gaijins don't speak japanese is so strong that when they don't see a face and just hear the language, even if it's strange, they don't take you for a gaijin. My language skill is pretty average, I can understand pretty well and can make my point but I use some very strange combinations of phrases to do it. And after a stilted conversation, you get to the point where they ask for your name and then ask you what kanji that should be? Pretty funny really.

Maybe they take me for an ossan with Alzheimer's, I'm always saying "yatsu" instead of using proper nouns for things.

[Mononoke_hime]

Mononoke what s your nationality? If you are French, you ll be Ok introducing yourself as French with asian roots. If you mention you are Chinese, even half, you are in for a tough treatment whether directly or indirectly.
Oh dear oh dear, I didn't know people actually reply to my posts :-) What's my nationality? Good question, I wish I was French but I'm not, even though I have stayed here for almost a decade for my studies. The French or most Europeans for the matter aren't as generous as we would like to think in giving out their nationality, so if they aren't offering it to me, then I won't beg. My dad is Singaporean-chinese and my mom is what you could called a "nikkei-jin". I don't think I need to explain its meaning since 99% of the readers here are in Japan. So, go figure for my nationality.


I also noticed that if your Japanese is decent and you look Japanese, you are more easily treated as a local by colleagues whereas caucasians are always treated with some distance even though some have been in Japan forever and speak perfect japanese.
Now minus points are if you are here to teach a western language or represent a western company. They still think that if you come from America or Europe you got to be white or else you are not the real thing. As a result, you will always be given less importance than the western looking guy and definitely students will prefer going to the caucausian guy's class or business partners will automatically think the caucasian has a higher rank than you in your company.
My 2 cents is it s fun to stay here a while to catch the language but thinking of moving here permanently is mad for a foreigner whereever you come from and however you may look like.
I don't think I will want to stay longer than what my contract is proposing me (3 years). I kinda guessed that most but not all Japanese are not too welcoming towards outsiders, and if they have to like outsiders, they will choose those whom can blend in nicely with the soft snow on the hills of Hokkaido in winter.

I look Japanese, but my japanese is as rusty as an abadonned submarine in Vladivostok, so if I keep my mouth shut, I think I can pass for a Japanese. But why would I want to do that? I don't really want to blend into their society if they don't want people to do it. I heard my grandad told me once when I was very young : You don't become Japanese, you are BORN Japanese. Ditto.

As for getting the chicks, I guess i will lead a monastrial life there, where I think I will be better off picking up non-japanese, since I have no blue eyes nor blond hair (actually I'm happy that I still have hair, and that blond isn't really my colour anyway).

[Mononoke_hime]

Not sure about 'being accepted' and what that entails and Im not sure that Id want to be. Im not Japanese and I dont try to be something that Im not and its possible to get ahead in ths country on your terms rather than worry 'being accepted and hoping they willl like you, Just being yourself you dont set yourself up for rejection and disappointment. You dont have to be the 'ugly American' but making an effort by 'doing in Rome as the Romans do is appreciated. I will always be the 'gaijin' and you learn to live with it after a while.
Being accepted means that local take you for what you are and not for what your skin colour. It means that you get to enjoy what they do with their friends. This process will never be complete of course even after many years spent in a foreign country, but at least I would like acceptance to be gradually increasing if I was a foreigner in Japan for example. My experience in France tells me that it won't be easy. You will know when you are accepted, because the sensation of going out together will be different, conversations are now at a very profound level and even the way you look at things will change, and Mt. Fuji will look very different suddenly...


Obviously if you live anywhere for any length of time you become out of the loop at home, lose contact with friends or time to develop other job skills. You have to either develop skills while you are here, or make sure you have a back up plan. Many come here for a year, end up staying ten and find they are stuck here with no other job skills than teach English.
I'm glad that I'm not teaching English coz even though I've been speaking it since my very tender age, they will never consider me as "native speaker". And seriously, I don't think English can be thought, if I wasn't put into an English boarding school at 6, I don't think I will ever be able to speak and write in it. Then again, an English teacher in Japan earns MUCH more than I will earn in my posh office desk in Crystal Tower!!

[kurogane]

Not to discredit your japanese, but this is easier than I would have thought. I think the idea that gaijins don't speak japanese is so strong that when they don't see a face and just hear the language, even if it's strange, they don't take you for a gaijin. My language skill is pretty average, I can understand pretty well and can make my point but I use some very strange combinations of phrases to do it. And after a stilted conversation, you get to the point where they ask for your name and then ask you what kanji that should be? Pretty funny really.
Maybe they take me for an ossan with Alzheimer's, I'm always saying "yatsu" instead of using proper nouns for things.

I agree with that hypothesis. Having said that, my Japanese really is almost as good as I am beautiful. And my _____ is really very large. No, really, dammit. Honest. Have I lied to you yet, inu-chan?

:p
Mononoke-kun,
I don't think that you will need to live a monastic life here. Plenty of very nice women here are actually interested in men simply because they find them attracttive and fun to be around. And plenty of those would rather date an Asian looking man than a white one. I have been told "I like you, I just wish you were Asian." And I am one beautiful white man, let me tell you. Anyways, you will have fun if you want. No need to bring a Power Palm.

[Mononoke_hime]

" I can pass on the phone when I am in the mood"

Not to discredit your japanese, but this is easier than I would have thought. I think the idea that gaijins don't speak japanese is so strong that when they don't see a face and just hear the language, even if it's strange, they don't take you for a gaijin. My language skill is pretty average, I can understand pretty well and can make my point but I use some very strange combinations of phrases to do it. And after a stilted conversation, you get to the point where they ask for your name and then ask you what kanji that should be? Pretty funny really.

Maybe they take me for an ossan with Alzheimer's, I'm always saying "yatsu" instead of using proper nouns for things.
I was reading this website entitled "Japanese for the western Brain" by Kim Allen from USA. I find it very funny and well laid out. But I can't help to wonder about my case. I speak English, French, Indonesian, a little Mandarin and a little Japanese. How would my brain work when I need to better my Japanese? In comparison with English/French, Japanese does seem very different so I don't think I'll be translating my thoughts from Eng to Japanese, but then again will I be better off translating my thoughts from Chinese? Even though these 2 languages sound very different, by analysing Chi n ___, I did find several similarities. Such as the particle "no" with the chinese "de3", they have the same usage. On the other hand, we don't conjugate verbs in Chinese, so when reaching the end of my sentence, do I need to start thinking in French to have the reflex of conjugating verbs? Fascinating isn't it? I dream in English, I count in Japanese, I day dream in chinese, I debate/discuss in French, so is there a website that explain how do we learn Japanese for "confused" people?

[kurogane]

is there a website that explain how do we learn Japanese for "confused" people?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is an excellent site for just such people. It's called Gaijinpot.com.
Specifically, most threads with posts by westsan, sincity, Morning Star, and Madmaxxam the Daughter Defiler.

Seriously, though. Thinking in a European language will not help with the conjugation of Japanese verbs. More importantly, the pronoun is irrelevant to the gramamtical conjugation, which is astoundingly standard throughout. The main problem for us seems to be getting an intuitive grasp of the requisite level of politeness. If you already speak some Japanese, then the best thing to do is to try and polish off the rust by listening to radio, watching TV, and talking, listening, etc. In other words, conversation. Preferably accompanied by deliciously chilled beer.
Ganbare, Hairy Princess.