Alien Cards- who can ask for them?

[Nagoyaguy]

I have seen a number of places where businesses demand that foreign guests and customers show their alien cards as a form of ID. Hotels, real estate companies, video rental shops, cell phone companies. I signed up at a gym and THEY wanted to copy it. I said no, of course.

What is the law regarding this? I heard that only the police and other government officials had the legal authority to see it. You card has lots of sensitive and private information, such as;

your passport number and expiry
your visa type and expiry
your company name and address

Personally, I am loathe to let all this information get circulated without a damn good reason. Especially places that actually want to photocopy my card! No frickin way, Jack.

Am I being paranoid or do I have a point?

[trip_hop]

Have a look at some other posts on this forum; foreigners boasting about leaving Japan without paying phone bills, utility charges, national/ local/ ward taxes, credit card charges, and then you may realise that the short-sighted, misguided actions of a few have repercussions for the many.

Show your driving license if you wish, or your health insurance card. These are accepted by most establishments in lieu of a gaijin card.

At the same time, why not reflect on the real reason they are asking for some ID/ surety.

Tokyo's governor Ishihara; the frequent MOJ "report an illegal campaign; the National Police Agency's distorted statistics on crime involving foreigners; and the media's own attitude do not help with this; but you may find that if you live and work in other countries on this planet, you will encounter similar requests for ID.

www.debito.org has lots on this topic too, though he seems to specialise and delight in confrontations with the police and other authorities. I leave you to figure out his agenda.

[Nagoyaguy]

Sure there are some scumbucket gaijin(s) out there. Is the plural of "gaijin" with the 's' (gaijins) or not? Anyway, there are also lots of scumbucket Japanese who do the same thing, that isnt the point. Getting a person's gaijin card information wont stop them from leaving the country with outstanding phone/water/electricity bills. It ALSO gives the victim of these frauds NO useful information about how to collect from the deatbeats.

So I ask you again, what's the point? The as you put it 'real reason' is paranoia. Plus, businesses have just gotten into bad habits regarding information. They are used to demanding it. I mean, really- what possible need is there for my gym to copy my alien registration number? Not money, since the monthly fees are deducted from my bank account in advance. Not security, since I dont borrow anything from them. Japanese members dont have to show anything, just sign up, provide bank account details, and enjoy. What legitimate reason is there to demand to know about my passport, visa, and employer?

As for Debito's motives, I think he has two. They are his daughters. He wants them to grow up in a better and more accepting country.

[gixxstar]

Nagoyaguy,

I assume you are living in Nagoya? sorry to go way off topic.
I will be moving to Nagoya in January with my wife (she goes back in dec)
How do you like it?
Is it clean?
Fun?
etc?

Some background on me, I am from Vancouver Canada, 25, wife is 20, like newer apartments.

I would very much apreciate the feedback as I my wife just says it's more fun...whatever that means??
Thanks in advance,
Gixx. ;)

[trip_hop]

Back on the topic - Japanese also have to provide similar ID when requesting the same services. At least they do at my sports club. But they are only concerned with your name and address, and probably cannot even read some of the fine print details on the card.


And when I think about it, I booked two flights and hotels last month for trips in Japan. Not once, during either trip was I asked to show any form of ID: not in the travel agent's, at the airport, during check-in and security check, or even at the hotel.

Not much paranoia there......

[kurogane]

I'm with TH. At home, to sign up for most such services, some form of ID is required, even if it is only a credit card number. Of course, here credit cards aren't considered ID.

The again, NGG, I do agree that such procedures here are far more intrusive than at home. That seems to go right across the board here. It is a country that is absolutely obsessed with paperwork, after all, and the notion that the person behind the counter is in charge, rather than the person in front of it. (and that is a legitimate Anthropological Observation, dammit).

As for Debito, he makes a few good points, then belabours them, then wanders off into pointlessly speculative deterministic crap. But, what can you expect from a guy who willingly changed his name to the medieval term for fugitive?

[paulh]

Some more on the issue of what your rights are:

http://www.debito.org/japantimes072704.html

[akahebi]

Many places want photo id. I have just used my US drivers license.

It was recommended to show your health insurance card. That's also good. You can even borrow money with that puppy!

The next time someone tells you "because you are a foreigner," look them right in the eye and say, "No. I'm Japanese. My mother is Japanese and my father is Japanese." Press the issue. I have yet to have someone prove that I am not Japanese. Of course, I am not, but they can't prove it. Anyway, have fun. And if the guy won't give you the phone, kick him in the shins.

[kurogane]

So, Red Snake, are you like of an Asian Persuasion? I would love to be able to use that line. There is no such hope for the Tragically White.

Not too sure about the kick in the shin routine, though.

[cjs]

I'm rather paranoid about privacy issues, but I don't think I'd worry too much about this sort of thing. Japan has some very strong privacy laws coming in soon (strong enough to put people in jail for exposing personal information), and Japan does not, unlike the U.S., have a tradition of linking personal data across industries and so on. Seeing that kind of ID is really just a comfort thing for the Japanese; they generally don't make any real attempt to record and use this sort of data.

[Nagoyaguy]

Showing my alien card is usually not too big a deal, although I prefer to use other ID like my driver's licence. However, you are wrong about places wanting to copy it. THis has come up many times with me- at a video shop, a gym, even at a hotel. In all cases I refused, of course. I am more than willing to provide whatever ID is required of ALL guests/customers.

Frankly,I dont really care about the comfort level, as you call it, of Japanese businesses. A little discomfort will do them good and perhaps teach them that customers are ALL deserving of equal respect and treatment.

[akahebi]

So, Red Snake, are you like of an Asian Persuasion? I would love to be able to use that line. There is no such hope for the Tragically White.
.

It's BECAUSE we are Tragically White that it is fun to use that line.

What if you changed your nationality to Japanese? Would you be legally required to carry i.d.? A gaijin card? I don't think so. So would the cops drag your ___ to the station until you "confessed?"

Anyone here who has become a Japanese National and can comment on this?

[ipickmynose]

i lay awake at nite with this one question that red snake exposed
do the guys who become japanese show gaijin cards?

im lucky that i have a drivers id which i show
i would suggest that all of u from canada/australia/new zealand go n get ur drivers id card

but it does get under me skin when the locals ask 4 the gaijin card 4 everything . good luck pulling that one off in australia . i would like to think that it cant b done at home in oz .

[trip_hop]

When asked for ID at Post Offices or other places, Japanese usually show a driving license or health insurance card. Naturalised Japanese do the same. Quite acceptable for foreigners to do so too, but they must carry ID in the form of ARC or passport too.

[Kumachan]

i lay awake at nite with this one question that red snake exposed
do the guys who become japanese show gaijin cards?

im lucky that i have a drivers id which i show
i would suggest that all of u from canada/australia/new zealand go n get ur drivers id card

but it does get under me skin when the locals ask 4 the gaijin card 4 everything . good luck pulling that one off in australia . i would like to think that it cant b done at home in oz .

Legally, only the cops and government type officials can ask you for your card. However, it might also be the only photo ID you have that a Japanese person can read/understand. Gyms, phone companies, car rental agencies etc will accept a Japanese driver's license without hesitation. If they're asking specifically for a gaijin card you don't have to produce it if you have some valid ID.

So either you get yourself some kind of official Japanese ID (like a driver's license) or the next time the clerk at the video store asks, show them your gaijin card.