Why No Working Holiday Visa for Americans

[peterh1971]

I as well as some of my friends are trying to determine why the US and Japan do not have a reciprocal agreement regarding work holiday visas. Does anyone here have any idea or some further knowledge on this issue.? Is it an American decision or Japanese one. The same also applys for changing a drivers license. I have e-mailed the US immigration, embassy, Japanese consulate and embassy as well as my senator and congressman - no reply yet. Itend to thin kit is more an American decsion and Japan is just following suit.
Thanks

[paulh]

I as well as some of my friends are trying to determine why the US and Japan do not have a reciprocal agreement regarding work holiday visas. Does anyone here have any idea or some further knowledge on this issue.? Is it an American decision or Japanese one. The same also applys for changing a drivers license. I have e-mailed the US immigration, embassy, Japanese consulate and embassy as well as my senator and congressman - no reply yet. Itend to thin kit is more an American decsion and Japan is just following suit.
Thanks

No idea, but when you consider that the US has a HUGE problem with illegal immigrants in the US and people working illegally in the US, and it is even impossible now for foreign businessmen (Arabs, egyptians etc) to even get a legal visa to go to the US on business and research Im not surprised. (I have recently heard of people taking up to a 6 months to a year to get a visa to go to the US to study)

Japanese young people cant work in the US on WHV so Americans cant come here, simple as that as there is no bilateral treaty allowing it. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours.

[peterh1971]

I have a feeling that it is more an American decision than anything else. Hell it took my wife over two years to get a temporary resident card in the US...It's just rediculous. Oh well, maybe things will change in the future. Personally I havea spouse visa but , I would like to see a reciprocal agrreement regarding this between the US and Japan.

[trip_hop]

Ask the US State Department.

Japan has a number of bilateral agreements with other countries, who reciprocally offer Japanese citizens a long-term stay/ working holiday in their country.

The US refuses to offer Japan the same sort of agreement, so US citizens are not afforded the same courtesy.

When the US reduces its visa period to Japanese (and others) to one month only, which is something under consideration), the Japanese Foreign Ministry will no doubt reciprocate.

[paulh]

I just read in the paper about one US small company that lost a $175,000 contract with an offshore company for machine parts to a Belgian company because the customers Egyptian engineer couldnt get a visa to enter the US. Other US companies are losing about $1 million a day as they can not get their products on the market due to visa holdups. Even Arab doctors with jobs lined up at hospitals etc cant get visas to get into the US

Many US companies are now starting to take their companies to the customers by setting up offshore or going through offshore subsidiaries.

[sasukene]

Can't comment on the WHV visa deal but I did read about the drivers licence issue for Americans. The info below comes from http://www.japandriverslicense.com FAQ

Q. This is not fair! I am an American Citizen! Why do U.S. citizens need to take a written and road test when most Europeans and Canadians do not need to? Can't we protest? Is there not some way around this? Has the U.S. Embassy been informed of this unfair treatment of U.S. citizens?
A. We felt the same anger, then took a deep breath, remembered that we were in Japan, then let it go and turned our energies towards building this site and developing our services. There is no way around this. Yes the U.S. Embassy is well aware of the requirement. As far as we can determine from our research, as drivers licenses are a state level issue in the U.S., and not a Federal issue, this is one of the main reasons why there are not reciprocal agreements between the U.S. and Japan like there are with many European countries. Another main reason is that when Foreigners, including Japanese move to the U.S. they are required to go through a similar process and they must do it way before 12 months are up. In California, for example, you can only drive legaly using an International Driving permit for 10 days if you are a resident.

So, make it hard for the Japanese to get some thing like a visa or a licence and they will make it hard for you. Great to see that the Yanks don't get every thing their own way all of the time!

[peterh1971]

Don't try to turn this around on me man. I asked an honest question. I wasn't bitching wasn't complaining, wasn't claiming that "I am an American Citizen". I am just tying to get to the bottom of an issue.

[Xavier]

It is about time Americans got a taste of there own medicine really. They changed the visa rules to suit themselves recently. Molly Meldrum (a famous Australian entertainment identity...an icon really) was refused entry for a short stay a couple of months back because the visa which had changed and was no longer appropriate. Forget the fact that he had used that same visa countless times over the past decade at least. The yanks sent him home from LA without even letting him out of the airport.

What goes around comes around really....

[sasukene]

Don't try to turn this around on me man. I asked an honest question. I wasn't bitching wasn't complaining, wasn't claiming that "I am an American Citizen". I am just tying to get to the bottom of an issue.

Don’t be paranoid Pete, it was nothing personal. If anything the barb was aimed at your inward looking governement, not you. Hell, some of my best friends are Americans and I lived there for 5 years. It is just during my career in the service industry I have lost count of how many times I have heard an American customer say “why can’t I do this or that in another country, I am American!” Kind of sad really.

[anikikokushi]

so so sad to be an american..................so I came to Japan....and at times I do find myself comparing the 2 countries but never with these statements of why can't i do it....I'm an american......I chose to live here so I will abide by the rules and play the cards as they are delt!!!!

[dashisan]

I agree. You move somewhere, anywhere, you must be willing to change. If not, then do not move. It's that simple, and seems the most logical.

[ballbags]

The WHV was initially started as a sort of Commonwealth agreement between the UK and Australia. This was extended year by year to include many other members of the club, ie Canada, New Zealand, Malaysia etc for the UK, and Australia took the lead by extending this system to include Korea, Japan, France,Holland, Italy, Ireland, South Africa, Sweden. and a few others etc.

All these countries have reciprocal agreements with each other, however the number of available places on the scheme differs hugely. Australia for example extends about 25000 visas a year to the UK, and vise versa, but only a couple of thousand to Sweden and France, therefore this is reciprocated. As the USA does not offer anyone a WHV it does not receive one from anyone. Plain and Simple. Japan and the UK only set up the WHV beginning about three years ago, and I believe there are only about 1000 places either way. Likewise for Japan and France / Germany.

Basically, give and ye shall receive..........

[vallient]

This is probabley going to be hugely unpopular but I support the US's not having a WHV program. The reason is because I think it would result ina huge disparity in jobs between the two countries. When Americans go to Japan to work they are largely only able to procure employment in teaching and its teaching english. In the US there isn't a very large demand for Japanese teachers. No instead young japanese want to come here and take high paying jobs in enginering, etc. These are jobs that Americans are qualified to do as well as being highly desirable. I asked a few japanese students at a university here if they were offered positions in the US to teach japanese would they take them? there response was all around "No" I dont think a WHV program would be a good idea for American interests. Maybe if we created a WHV program and said you could only teach Japanese, maybe then the Japanese goverment would open their regualtions on recruiting.

Vallient

[kurogane]

Remember, though, it is a Working HOLIDAY exchange programme, not a working visa programme. For the most part, the Japanese that go to partner countries work for far less money, and generally make a net addition to the local economy, simply because they view it, for the most part, as a working holiday, and so carry in savings. Unlike us, they don't see it as a quick easy chance to scam a job that pays too much to too many who are too underqualified.

So, I think you are comparing Apples and Oranges, there.

[waller]

Yeah, Japanese can come to NZ for a year on a WHV I think. I have taught a few and they are not stealing the lovely well paid IT jobs believe me. They are working in cafes, pubs, hotels , hairdressers (that is the ones I met). They buy old cars, go skiing, visit the hot pools, get a bit pissed and have a lovely old time in general. Good for them.

[paulh]

This is probabley going to be hugely unpopular but I support the US's not having a WHV program. The reason is because I think it would result ina huge disparity in jobs between the two countries. When Americans go to Japan to work they are largely only able to procure employment in teaching and its teaching english. In the US there isn't a very large demand for Japanese teachers. No instead young japanese want to come here and take high paying jobs in enginering, etc. These are jobs that Americans are qualified to do as well as being highly desirable. I asked a few japanese students at a university here if they were offered positions in the US to teach japanese would they take them? there response was all around "No" I dont think a WHV program would be a good idea for American interests. Maybe if we created a WHV program and said you could only teach Japanese, maybe then the Japanese goverment would open their regualtions on recruiting.

Vallient

The working holiday visa in Japan does not just allow you to teach English in japan, you can do many jobs- work on a farm. milk cows work on a ski field, for 6 months to support a HOLIDAY in Japan. Most people can not speak Japanese so english teaching is all they can do. WHV is not a work visa or an English teaching visa. In NZ I met Japanese students washing dishes in restaurants. they can do all kinds of jobs but its unlikely they will take high paying or professional jobs unless they have the right qualifications and visa. No fear of taking high paying IT jobs in the US I think.

PS If you want to get a full time instructors visa, Americans as well as new Zealanders and Australians require a university degree. I think Americans lose out in a way, as they dont have japanese come over and spend money in the local economy. The US government is too worried about overstayers and illegal immigrants to want to grant Japanese students a 6 month working holiday visa when Haitians and Mexicans etc can not work there.

[waller]

Just an a aside, OP, one thing we are seeing in NZ now is wealthy Americans coming to give birth. This means that their kids automatically get NZ citizenship. Bit cheeky eh?

[person]

Just an a aside, OP, one thing we are seeing in NZ now is wealthy Americans coming to give birth. This means that their kids automatically get NZ citizenship. Bit cheeky eh?

Here's an equally "cheeky" story - from when I was fresh off the boat here to Japan (keeping in mind, I flew in...on a plane) -

I hadn't been in Japan but a few months when I found myself teaching a private lesson (many as a matter of fact) to a Japanese woman who was soon to go to America. Her story?

She was in her 30s (as am I). Her boyfriend (sex partner/victim) had gotten transferred to the US; she had been unhappy about this. What did she do?

Conveniently, they got pregnant (not just she - I realize he could have used a condom if he was really that uninterested in getting someone pregnant). Since some of my coworkers had known the man as well (before he had left several months earlier), it seems her "plan" worked perfectly.

She got pregnant; of course, they got married (this IS Japan). She was headed to America...and she wanted to go QUICKLY. She was far along at the time and she INSISTED that her baby be born in the US. Gee, I wonder why that would be? Because he husband was there and she wanted him to be present at the birth? Maybe. Unfortunately, per her own words, she wanted her baby to "be an American".

It works both (all?) ways...well, except in countries like Japan where being born - and living your whole life - don't make you Japanese.

As for "wealthy" Americans coming over, I can't comment. The flipside is having poor people come over...in search of a better life (with the intent/desire to stay). I'll leave you to decide which is better, worse, etc. And, I assure you, I have a fair degree of knowledge (firsthand) on the subject. For several years, I volunteered teaching English to Mexican immigrants. I was well aware many (most?) were there illegally. My thought? If they wanted to learn, I wanted to teach them. People who wish to better themselves deserve someone's help.

But I digress.

[kurogane]

Nice digression. That woman sounds pretty cynical. Was her partner/the father a Japanese?

Waller,
Nice points, man. The WHV kids in Vangroover do the same kind of stuff. Much closer in spirit to the original intentions of the programme, but as person pointed out, with no Japanese skills, teaching English is often the only way to make a go of it. Of ocurse, a lot of people I know here on WHV only do part time teaching to make ends meet, and then study, travel, and use the visa the way it was intended. A very good programme, I think; hell, I got four of them, I liked it so much.

[donpaulo]

The working holiday visa is a holdover from the brit empire when british students roamed the world in search of experience, education and fun. Since London was making policy it seems logical to conclude they started the holiday visa program to enable just such undertakings.

The US on the other hand tends to swing from one extreme to the other in regards to immigrants and immigration. It has no holiday visa because the US is large enough to facilitate a multitude of experiences within its borders. At least that is my practical thinking on the matter.

Acquiring a visa is becoming more and more of a hoop jump for trained dogs, with added hoops of fire and spikes thus increasing the difficulty. To complete a US student visa application form the students school must now be registered in a US state dept database. This procedure has now been copied by Britian as of Jan 1 2005. The problem has been that schools lag behind the new law which puts stress upon the system of simply awarding student visa's to foreign nationals. The brits are currently asking to see personal banking information prior to approval of student visas.

Why does the US not have WHV ? its a complex issue certainly but I think can be easily summized by taking a closer look at US immigration history. For example Ellis Island was literally falling down when after perhaps 70 or so years it was "rebuilt" with private donations. The same cannot be said for Angel Island which is now an empty place of overgrown trees in San Francisco bay yet angel island was the crux of the pacific immigration route. The difference between the two places, the standards in treatment are like night and day. A little disturbing perhaps but not surprising considering the history of the USA.

Yet when one takes a closer look at foreign student ratios you can find no place with a higher such ratio than the US and its institutes of higher learning. WHV simply allows foreign students to work "menial" jobs in order to extend ones holiday. The US has more foreign students but just doesn't allow them to work. Which is a better system ? Which has more foreign nationals in school ? not sure but I suspect the US has significantly more visas if only due to its size and importance.