Questions: Need Answers. Please?

[Chris0r]

I'm in a somewhat unique situation and I wanted to ask a few questions rather than browse forums endlessly.

I am in the process of organizing an trip to Japan. I'm 21 (22 when I leave), have a highschool education, have funds to sustain my initial stay, and am going on a 6 month - 1 year Work Holiday visa.

What are my chances of finding a job that can sustain a decent standard of living? I understand that it'd probably be something in the realm of eikaiwa.

Should I organize job interviews before I leave, or would showing up in the front office of an eikaiwa be just as worthwhile?

What kind of information would an eikaiwa be looking for when considering me for a possition?

Is organizing a permenant residence before I leave a possibility, or should I be looking at places personally when I get there? I can think of several horror scenarios where I'm stuck in a slum under an unfair lease aggreement .

If there's anything that I forgot to ask about that might be critical, please don't hesitate to mention it.

Thanks, and all that!

[trip_hop]

There is nothing unique about your situation, it is the same as thousands of others, and your questions have all been asked before.

1) Most jobs will require your presence in Japan for interview. Write ahead if you like, but better to organise once you are here, as so many fail to turn up. You'll also need to consider transportation. Buy yourself a Bilingual Atlas of wherever you will be living.

Requirements: Native English speaker, living, no gross physical deformities or speech impediments, residing in Japan, appropriate visa, not much else. Some higher level schools may want more, but not much. You'll probably only be working for short time/ part-time only. Prepare a simple CV, and bring documentation to support it.

Decent standard of living - depends on how hard you work. Search the forums for lots of advice on salary levels and expenses. Objective of WHV is to travel and see/ experience Japan, not just work.

2) A Permanent Residence is impossible to acquire from abroad, unless you are paying US$10,000/ month for a corporate apartment. Not likely on your wages. FInd a place to live once you arrive. You'll have to rent a place like everyone else.

3) Once working holiday visa is over, you'll have to satisfy Immigration for working visa if you intend to stay on. No degree, no visa.

Decide where to live - again, search forums for opinions on different places.

Make sure you bring plenty of cash for accommodation deposits, and to live on until you receive your first salary. US$5,000 would be recommended.

[Chris0r]

First, thanks for the reply.

But $5000 ?

And here I thought I'd be okay with $3000.
I've seen a lot of estimates; anything ranging from $2000 up to $5000 (yours).

Is $5000 a generous estimate for someone planning to spend their time in Tokyo? Please say yes.

I was looking at starting my search for a job in Kobe, and getting a place on the outskirts. That's open for change of course, but my budget is not; it probably won't be going much above $3000.

:-o

[Kumachan]

First, thanks for the reply.

But $5000 ?

And here I thought I'd be okay with $3000.
I've seen a lot of estimates; anything ranging from $2000 up to $5000 (yours).

Is $5000 a generous estimate for someone planning to spend their time in Tokyo? Please say yes.

Okay, yes $5000 is a generous estimate. I am of course lying my ___ off in saying that but you did want somebody to say yes.

You have to figure a few things, like housing, food, travel, entertainment and whatever else strikes your fancy. I would say about $1000/month to ensure you are able to take care of all of the above. If you want to cut out the extraneous bits like entertainment, maybe down to $750. If you don`t mind shopping only at the 100 yen stores and living on instant ramen, and pre-made onigiri then maybe you can get by with about $600.00.

Like it or not, Japan is rather expensive for certain things. You can find some great bargains if you look for them,　but they`re not always available or possible.


I was looking at starting my search for a job in Kobe, and getting a place on the outskirts. That's open for change of course, but my budget is not; it probably won't be going much above $3000.

Then good luck to you, but unless you`re willing to sacrifice a few luxuries $3000 won`t last you more than 4 months.

[trip_hop]

Look at your post again.

What are my chances of finding a job that can sustain a DECENT standard of living?
Is organizing a permenant residence before I leave a possibility?
I was looking at starting my search for a job in Kobe, and getting a place on the outskirts.

All of these require money, esp. transportation, furnishing and deposit on accommodation, which could be from 2-6 months rent, if you find somewhere that will rent to a foreigner - another issue.

US$5,000 can easily go before you get your first pay check.

All you will probably want a mobile phone, broadband internet connection, etc., etc..

[Chris0r]

Well, I don't need to be patronised; I know what my post said.

However, I'm obviously not completely informed about everything that I need to prepare for.
I thought I was pretty close though.


Then good luck to you, but unless you`re willing to sacrifice a few luxuries $3000 won`t last you more than 4 months.

Should I expect to be without work for more than a month? Was expecting to find work within a couple of weeks overly optimistic?

Thanks again in advance for the info.

[The Janken King]

Well, I don't need to be patronised; I know what my post said.

However, I'm obviously not completely informed about everything that I need to prepare for.
I thought I was pretty close though.



Should I expect to be without work for more than a month? Was expecting to find work within a couple of weeks overly optimistic?

Thanks again in advance for the info.

Yes, there are NO guarantees! Why not start out with one of the big schools that hire overseas
(AEON, GEOS, NOVA - listed in order of quality ) then you can always leave after your 1st yr for something better

[The Janken King]

woops, with no degree guess that rules out the big schools cept maybe NOVA part time?

[Kumachan]

Well, I don't need to be patronised; I know what my post said.
I'm assuming this is in reference to what I said, and if you think that was patronising then I suggest you grow a thicker skin. You want honesty, and I will be brutally honest and pull no punches, I have no problem telling people the truth, or at the very least my interpretation of it.


However, I'm obviously not completely informed about everything that I need to prepare for.
I thought I was pretty close though. You forget that what works back home does not necessarily work here. Japan is expensive for certain things, and really cheap for others. Figure on what you would need back home to live comfortably (this is all relative of course), take that amount and at a rough estimate double it.


Should I expect to be without work for more than a month? Was expecting to find work within a couple of weeks overly optimistic?
Way too optimistic in my books. Even if you get an interview and get hired, chances are you're not going to start before the spring. In fact from what I understand about Japanese culture, you're heading into the worst time to be applying for a job since nobody hires before February.

[Chris0r]

I'm assuming this is in reference to what I said, and if you think that was patronising then I suggest you grow a thicker skin. You want honesty, and I will be brutally honest and pull no punches, I have no problem telling people the truth, or at the very least my interpretation of it.

Kumachan: No, it wasn't what you said. I found your post very informative and constructive. I was actually refering to trip_hop. Although, to his credit, I also found him informative and helpful as well.

I don't plan on leaving until late February, so I should be okay for hitting the hiring season. I'm really not looking good to perspective employers without a degree, though, am I?

If I may indulge myself for a minute; I refuse to take a degree for something I'm not going to use to do something I love, so I'm going to Japan to see if I like teaching (Well, that's one of the reasons). I've been kicking around, testing the waters in various different fields, and this is my last stop.

I absolutely refuse to give up on this, regardless of this slight road block. I'm counting on persistance and motivation to make up for the degree I lack. If that's too optimistic, sue me... or something. =]

[Maki`s Mum]

Chris you came here for answers and that is what you got.
Believe me there are thousands of foreigners over here
riding the gravy train whereby you get to have a job for being
white and alive.
A degree is necessary nearly all of the time, but there may be peope
willing to hire you if they make enough of a connection with you.
However, it would take a lot of time to meet such people....
If you get a working holiday visa perhaps you could get bar work
Or you could register on the old find a teacher websites.
No one on this site is going to solve your problems,
but do yourself a favour and look through the myriad threads
on this site about this project. Someone in your situation comes
on with the same questions nearly everyday.
And by the way, Triphop is not a him, but a fawn.

[Chris0r]

*shrug*

Fawn, Him... close enough.

Bar work, eh? A stipulation of the WH visa states that you may not work in any establishment dealing with entertainment. So, that's out.

I still have confidence that being white and alive will earn me a teaching position in an eikaiwa somewhere.

I can also say with confidence that there are children who will be learning english more reliably from me than from a lot of the other clods WITH degrees who are populating the eikaiwa industry.

As always, thanks for the input. =)

[Morning Star]

Chris0r;

It sounds like you've got a lot of heart, no experience, and no diploma.

*Get a degree. Buy a degree from Mexico. Print one up on your computer.* (You think I'm kidding?)
If you don't then you will not find a job that will make you happy you came to Japan. Without that paper you will be selling HJ's in kabukicho and writing home to Mama, telling her about some Phillipina new-half kicked the shet out of you for stealing her John.

See my asterisked points. It will work and you will find yourself in a comfy little eikaiwa job. If you decide that honesty is the best policy, don't complain to me when you find yourself fluffing soupmen for that bukkake shot.

[trip_hop]

Maki's Mum - fawn!? Think you mean doe? As opposed to buck. Don't know any terms for granny-aged deers!

chris - good to have confidence - take care it does not become overconfidence, or arrogance.

Why not post your success story here afterwards?

And just for reference, from today's paper:
The revised Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law takes effect Thursday.

The upper limit of fines will go up drastically. For visa violations or illegal entry, the fine can reach 3 million yen, up 10-fold.

Those who encourage employment of people without legitimate residential status can be fined up to 3 million yen. Foreigners who become engaged in activities other than what they are authorized to do under their visas can be fined up to 2 million yen, also up 10-fold.

Doubt that many will pay that kind of money, so a spot of time in detention is prescribed before the one way trip to the airport.

If you want to fool an employer with a Mexican or Thai degree, it is up to you, just do not try to fool Immigration.

[kurogane]

Morning Star is right. Get a copy of a friend's degree, and paste in your own name. With it, your enthusiasm for teaching English will already put you ahead of the rest of us, most of whom consider that to be a profession about as fulfilling as a job entailing asking "Wood ya like fries wit dat?". Without it, you wil be working at some hole in the wall scam outfit where the owner may pull a runner any day, taking your paycheck and your dreemu at the same time.
Good Luck.
PS If you ever make smart ___ remarks to trip hop again I will cyber fry you. You have been warned. Your entire post requires at least mild patronisation, given that you know **** all, and have the guts to ask for help. U R a newbie. We like being nice to newbies. Don't ____ us off.
Good Luck

[Maki`s Mum]

If you watch NTV tonight there will be Japanese TV`s first ever on-screen kiss between a queer and a fawn.

Chris mate you gotta understand that no degree - no Eikaiwa job.
What you could do is contact the schools listed on Gaijinpot over the phone, (find their addresses yourself) and talk to them in a very nice articulate English accent,
describing your remarkable student-centred approach to teaching.
If you manage to get enough of a rapport up, they may be willing to employ you or at
least help you in your quest even if you don`t have a degree.
Sounds like a lot of hard work ? You`re going to need a pretty spectacular stunt and a lot of luck to get this job.
Remember you could be a private teacher .... make some business cards, speak to businessmen and young ladies in pubs, give your cards out, and try and build yourself up from there. That would not be impossible

[kurogane]

I'm from Vancouver. I know what a queer is. What is a fawn?
:)

[Chris0r]

I had no idea it was so easy to antagonize people, even when you're not trying. =(

I have been casually researching this trip for the past 6 months. I've asked questions that I have partial answers for in order to make things clearer. This wasn't a woke-up-this-morning-and-decided type of thing.


And just for reference, from today's paper:
The revised Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law takes effect Thursday.

The upper limit of fines will go up drastically. For visa violations or illegal entry, the fine can reach 3 million yen, up 10-fold.

Those who encourage employment of people without legitimate residential status can be fined up to 3 million yen. Foreigners who become engaged in activities other than what they are authorized to do under their visas can be fined up to 2 million yen, also up 10-fold.

Doubt that many will pay that kind of money, so a spot of time in detention is prescribed before the one way trip to the airport.

If you want to fool an employer with a Mexican or Thai degree, it is up to you, just do not try to fool Immigration.
Er... pardon? I don't think I ever implied that I was planning on violating... anything. =o


From the 6 months of research I've done, I came to the conclusion that the trip and finding a job was feasible without a degree. Many things have alluded to that notion (although nothing specific I can recall off-hand).

Is all this talk about NOT being able to find a job without a degree coming from experience, or from a friend-of-a-friend-told-me kind of situation? Or, at the risk of totally annihilation by flaming, is it coming from an elitist view that believes if I get the same job at similar pay, and didn't have to study and pay tuition for 4 years, it will totally undermine all that work. *ducks*

[trip_hop]

Doesn't get much simpler than this.

Post #13: a suggestion to get yourself a photocopied or Mexican degree to assist your job search.

Post #18: a note referring to Post #13 that Immigration are now exacting steeper penalties for Immigration violations, suggesting that it is not a good idea.

Despite all the research on your 'unique' situation, you have picked a poor time to come here; and do not appear to accept that for better or worse, it is not that easy to get a job anymore. Those comments have come from people who are here, with direct experience of the Japan market, not 'friend-of-a-friend situations' or 'something I read on the internet.'

You did not imply you were going to do anything wrong, but someone else suggested this to you as a means to increase your chances of getting a job, so my post was to recommend that it was not a good idea, and some references to support that. At the risk of being patronising again, this is how forums and threads work, and not everything is directed at you. Imagine it as people sitting round a table, throwing in comments if you will.

However, it is many of the paying customers, and in turn the employers who demand degrees from their "teachers", to support their marketing message and to try to convince students that theirs is a good school, and that they should spend their hard-earned cash there. This is the reality of business here. And should the students learn that their "sensei" is a high school graduate car mechanic or farm boy, they take their business elsewhere, blaming the "unqualified teacher" for their slow learning.

The WHV programme is ideal for people without degrees to work and travel in Japan for a limited period, and no-one begrudges you the opportunity.

I personally do not care a sh#t about how much you will or will not earn, whether you have a degree or not, but I do not like to see foreigners detained and deported for visa violations due to bad advice. There is a related thread here describing an Aussie guy who had a WHV, who violated one of those Immigration laws, and was detained and deported 2 years after the original offence, and he was working IT, not eikaiwa. And as the Japan authorities are building a new detention centre in Tokyo for 300 persons, they are looking to find more.

[Maki`s Mum]

well said TH.
You gotta give it to her Chris, she has laid it on the line, pure and simple.
These are your options. What exactly makes you think you can get a job over here
without a work Visa ?
Perhaps the best thing you can do is try and fail.
Maybe you`ll meet lots of private students. Maybe you`ll make enough money to scrape by.
Come and work on demolition sites but you won`t get any danger money.
Or perhaps acting and modelling. Or you could sell you arse.

You could get freelance teaching work but you won`t get a job in Japan without a degree.
This is the beauty of the Eikawia thing - simply with a degree, bingo, you got a new life in Japan.
harsh but true.

Please let us know how you intend to proceed.

[Chris0r]

Oh god. I regretted putting 'unique' the next day when I went to check the thread. I thought at the time that it might draw attention to my post, but it's seeming more and more silly. Thank you for making me feel stupid!

I've read, understood, and earnestly appreciated all the information and replies. I'm not just saying that as a formality. I was in no way trying to question the validity or helpfulness of any of the posts, including yours, trip_hop. I feel like a senator making an apology speech because he accidentally refered to Native Americans as the Red Man, or something.

And yes, trip_hop, you risked it, and you succeeded admirably at being overly patronising. I am slowly but surely feeling unwelcome. My excuses for breathing are seeming fewer and fewer. Damn elitists.

(joking...)

Maki's Mum: I appreciate your concern, but you may (I don't feel like I should be informing anyone of anything here, because I really do feel like a newbie) not know exactly what a Working Holiday Visa allows.

These are your options. What exactly makes you think you can get a job over here
without a work Visa ?
From my understanding, the WHV gives me the right to work in any field other than the entertainment industry. It is essentially a Work Visa limited to one year. My major stumbling block really does seem to be my lack of degree, which I assumed would be the case.

So, I think I'll go with the forged documents! A photo copied degree sounds horrible, but, from what trip_hop is saying, these companies seem to care more about image than anything.

I have no problem peddling myself to companies in this way, but does the law? Is there any way that this could backfire on me? I'm not planning on using this method for a permenant work visa, so I'm hoping I'll be okay.

[Maki`s Mum]

sorry I meant to say "without a degree". My mistake.

Go with the forged documents. You most probably won`t get found out.

[trip_hop]

Your WHV is good for a year, 18 months possibly if you are Australian, to work as you said, and it will satisfy Immigration authorities for all jobs except Adult Entertainment Industry. (Maki's Mum - note extended reciprocal agreement with Aus-gov) Bars have also employed many WHV holders.

However, it is your timing that is the main problem, not your degreeless status; it is just not a good time for hiring people. And waving papers from Gracias School of Mucho Bueno English or Krung Thep Mahanakhon Internashional Collidge of Angrit will not help.

Your bogus degree may enhance your chances and satisfy some employers if they were hiring, though for short-time, part time jobs at some "conversation schools", continued breathing and circulation of blood in your body and brain is the main requirement, along with being young, vibrant and capable of speaking reasonably clear fluent English. Anything else is, well.....anything else. But at certain times of the year, hiring is low or non-existent. Businesses (and that is what they are) do not need new staff.

And that is why you may need US$5,000 to keep you going until you find a job and get paid. It could take a few months. Especially if you want a decent standard of living and apartment. You might hit the jackpot and find a position at the Mister Suzuki Happy English Conversation School in Kobe in your first week due to some one leaving, and then you are smiling all the way; but then again, you might not.

Implications - only if you attract the attention of Japan police - and they decide to check you and your employer out. Keep you nose, and other parts clean, and in all likelihood you will not have a problem.

Good luck.

And elitist? If you ever have the misfortune to require vascular or abdominal surgery, I hope your surgeon is properly qualified, and not an enthusiastic car mechanic practising on a holiday visa!

[Morning Star]

Is there any way this could backfire?

Don't lie to Immigration, only lie to your potential employers. They won't do a background check because it costs money and they're just looking for a warm, preferably native English speaking, body.

When you get back to the real world, forget about this little escapade into criminality and try to do things the right way. Situationally, there's no harm in doing it here because they aren't looking for merit, only the appearance of merit. Just try not to get used to taking short-cuts like this or it will eventually backfire on you.

Good luck! You'll need it. And remember, Loose lips sink ships.

[Chris0r]

Cool. Awesome. This car mechanic(I am? sweet) is totally going to the land of the rising sun.

What exactly are the best months for hiring in Japan? I am fairly flexible.

[datsun]

...In terms of planning for your inital siege on Japan, it's worth noting that most companies pay once a month (usually 15th, 25th or last business day of the month) AND start payment on the first payday after you've completed a month working. Which is to say if you start on January 1st and continue working, you won't get that money until the February payday, which may not be until the 28th. And if you start on January 31st you'll get a paycheck for one day's wages on that same February payday.

So when you plan your budget, please factor that kind of thing in beforehand.

-Datsun

[s10]

However, it is your timing that is the main problem, not your degreeless status; it is just not a good time for hiring people.

Praytell what would be a good date to come to Japan and start looking for work?

[Glenski]

I usually recommend US$4000-5000 to come and set yourself up for job hunting, so I side with Trip Hop on that figure. Since no one else has shown a breakdown of how this figure is achieved, let me.

You come and have no employer, so you will probably have to get a gaijin house as lodging. Most apartments require a guarantor (your employer). Gaijin houses will run 50,000-80,000 yen/month, and you may have to pay 20,000-25,000 yen as a deposit. If you are fortunate enough to find a place that does not require a guarantor for an apartment, you may still have to pay 2-5 times a month's rent as a deposit just to move in. There will be no furniture, no light fixtures, no fridge or stove, no washing machine, etc., so you will somehow have to get those. Large garbage dumping stations are frequented by foreigners for this situation, but do you want to do that on your first day of living here (and imagine the logistics of hauling it to your home)? Anyway, preparing for the worst, if you have to pay this key money, it could be 100,000 to 500,000 yen.

Utilities will run you 15,000-20,000 yen/month depending on season and your habits.

Getting a phone. Cell phones can be purchased for zero to 10,000 yen (or more), and setup charges can be 10,000 yen. Monthly service runs 5000-8000 yen. If you want a land line for your apartment, you can either buy a line new (70,000 yen) or used (as low as 30,000 yen) or you can rent one (3500 yen/month?).

Groceries (no snacks included) are about 30,000 yen/month, depending on your cooking habits and whether you are a vegetarian or carnivore.

Ok, you now have a roof over your head, a phone to connect to potential employers, and food in the fridge. You are still going to need to get around, so a monthly pass will run you 15,000-20,000 yen.

Total cost for the first month (minus airfare to get here) JUST TO GET SETTLED:
low end -- 50,000 + 15,000 + 10,000 + 30,000 + 15,000 = 120,000 yen
high end -- 500,000 + 20,000 + 70,000 + 5000 + 30,000 + 20,000 = 645,000 yen

There will be other costs as well. Using Internet cafes? Buying The Japan Times. Traveling outside of your local pass limit to get to interviews. Photocopying. Haircut / Perm. Dry cleaning and/or laundry. (All of these, by the way, are job-associated costs. If you want to do ANYthing else for entertainment, including eat a Snickers, rent a video, go to the museum, visit an onsen, send a postcard home, buy cable TV, etc.), you will have to pay even more. And, let's not forget about insurance, as well as how much you will have to pay for anything not covered by it.

Let's assume you can work things on the lower end of the scale. 120,000 yen for the first month.
Your second month will be somewhat cheaper because of lack of setup costs.
phone 5000
rent 50,000
food 30,000
utilities 15,000
TOTAL = 100,000 yen (plus anything job related or entertainment related)

So, working on the premise that you MIGHT get by on the lowest possible expenses output, you have 120,000 + 100,000 = 220,000 yen for two months (roughly US$2000). However, how long will it take you to find work? No one can say, even in February or March, when you said you were coming. You might have to look for 2 weeks or (more probably) a month to two months. If it's a single month, then you might receive a paycheck at the end of your third month here. If it's two months, you might not receive a paycheck until the 4th month you are here. Add up those expenses above (and the ones you can't see because they are intangible, whether job-related or entertainment-related).

THAT'S why some of us recommend US$3000-5000, usually about $4000.

Some people have come here with US$900 in their pockets and made it with ease. They took loans from their school (like NOVA) and lived on a smaller paycheck as a result of paying it back for 3 months and as a result of getting paid less during their training period. It CAN be done. However, no one can GUARANTEE that you will have this same sort of luck. It's wise to plan for the worst, if possible.

People get hired for FT work on WHVs all the time. Some WHV holders have degrees; some don't. Some visa holders have degrees; some don't. The fact is that you wil be competing with people who potentially DO have degrees (looked upon more favorably by employers) and who may have been living here already (also looked at with more favor). Selling yourself may be easy or hard. That's something to consider when you think about how long it will take to land that first job.

[Maki`s Mum]

so chris you might as well end it all.
a nylon and hemp mix rope is what you want.
Face it you are never going to make in ANYWHERE
you need at least 500,000 dollars and 6 degrees to make it in Japan.





Or, just turn up and make a go of it. You`ll be fine. Put yourself about a bit and find some work.
Go out, get wasted, meet some girls, live in the cheapest gaijin house going (cheaper if you take responso for the rubbish) go around as many English schools as you can, give out business cards, go to modelling agencies, register on teaching sites (see other threads),
you never know. And if it all goes wrong, you can go home and regret it.
Better to try it out and go wrong, What have you got to lose ?

[Nanbanjin]

Go out, get wasted, meet some girls, live in the cheapest gaijin house going (cheaper if you take responso for the rubbish) go around as many English schools as you can, give out business cards, go to modelling agencies, register on teaching sites (see other threads),
you never know.
Just how cheap is the cheapest gaijin house going?

[sasukene]

Just how cheap is the cheapest gaijin house going?

Seen ads for a low as 20,000 a month in Tokyo. God only knows what state they are in. Anywhere from 50,000 to 90,000 seems to be the real going rates. I paid 70,000 in Chiba last year.

[Nanbanjin]

Thanks!
Do people graduate from gaijin houses and move into apartments of their own? Then how much do they pay?

[kurogane]

No. We are required by law to live in Gaijin houses til we die of lack of soap.

Ummm, a decent apartment in a decent area of a decent city in Kansai seems to do about 70,000 or 80,000 for a fairly basic one room with closet sized kitchen and bath, etc. Some are cheaper, but if you want space, you pay.
What is your income situation going to be this time? That scholarship you had before made even me green, and I am the F'in Scholarship/Reseacrh Funding King of All Time. Hope you have a similar gig lined up.
Let us know, and we will tell you what we know.
And thats 1541 for me. Paulh, get to work, you contrarian anti-denominational recidivist non-antidisestablishmentarian, you.
;)