If you knew then what you know now...

[Xephon]

If you knew what you know now about your experiences in Japan, what would you have done differently before going there? I ask because I'd really like to go to Japan, primarily the Tokyo area (As I'm sure most tourists start at), and I'm wondering how best I should prepare myself. I've done a bit of research on my own, and I've checked a lot of the posts here. I gotta say I didn't really expect Japan to be as racist as those signs make it seem, lol, but I'm willing to deal with that. I would like to go there to be a teacher, as I know some of you have, and I think I could be successful. I'm not planning on leaving right away. In fact I'm going to do some college here before I go. You think 21 is a little young to go off and do something like try to start a new life in Japan? I hope not because I'm going to do it anyways, lol. Anyways, I'd really appreciate it if you'd let me tap into your accumulated wisdoms!!! Thanks ^_^!!!

[hansel]

Hi,

Actually I'm not the person who is willing to go to Japan. I'm Japanese. However, I've been to some other countries outside Japan and guess some of my experiences would be helpful for you.

First of all, I think the most important thing is "not having one-side prejudice" wherever you go. I mean researching and getting information on line by yourself is worth to do, needless to say. Although I believe that it would be better for people to consider those somebody's thoughts and stuff as just information not "that is Japan" thing. I hope it makes sense.

Every culture has good and bad even from the point of view of that Nations. Moreover, the way of thinking to culture and community is totally different in each household. To get to know a different culture takes so much time and if you got your mind opened for new things come you are good to go, I think.

[kuro_kitty]

I wouldn't have come to be honest. I left a good job and a great penthouse apartment in the city to explore a country which I held high regard for, having visited here at a young age....but now...I would say that I would have gone somewhere else to feed my itch to travel and work overseas before settling down.

I don't think it's very (obviously) anti-foreigner in Tokyo as most Tokyoites would think any gaijin they see is a "silly" tourist....thus...simply a person who can be forgiven for not understanding the Japanese culture because they are only here for a short amount of time....but as for those other gaijins...the ones that actually live here........well...they are criminals! :p

Lots of people here are obviously anti-foreigner and sometimes that makes it very very hard to be happy here. I have been to a total of seven other Asian countries, some as a tourist, others as a short term visitor (when I was very young) and I have found Japan to be a very anti-foreigner country

To be honest, I liked Japan for about 3 months, when i learnt to ignore all the staring and spitting and bitching....but you can only ignore things for a certain time before they really start to push you over the edge.

[Lucifer McTrump]

i must say, the spitting aspect is really starting to get to me. occurs almost on a daily basis now. i'd have brought at least a 6 months supply of roll on and spray anti perspirant as im fast running out and as yet havent been able to locate anything similar to what i brought.
i wouldnt have paid the exorbitant airfare as part of the NOVA package deal. In fact, from what i know now, i wouldnt have applied to NOVA! I would have delayed coming for a year and spent the year learnig as much Japanese as humanly as possible. From what Ive learnt recently, I would have most definitely tried to come here on a scholarship rather tha work for peanuts and be on the rice line!

[Xephon]

Staring, spitting, and bitching, eh? lol. Where I'm from most of the non-foreigners around here get upset at the Latinos, mostly because some of them don't speak clear english. I can probably make accurate inferrences from how they're treated and expect that from impatient and intolerant people in Japan. And as for the 3-month-gaijin, I think if I'm tough enough (gulp) I'll stay there for a lot longer than that. I've been thinking about this for the longest time, and I'm sure that I want to go, regardless of the punishment I know I'm asking for, lol. Maybe I will end up being a 3-month-gaijin, but I have to give it a shot. And I'm already a criminal, so there's no problem there... just kidding.

Funny you should mention NOVA, Lucifer! I had been looking at that company and I was wondering if they paid or if you paid to get to Japan. Now I know! I'm just getting started in taking Japanese 1, so I guess I'm on the right track as far as learning before I go. And scholarship? I didn't know that they had scholarships that go across seas. If that's the case then I'll ask my bank about getting a loan for college over there. From what I've heard education in Japan has higher standards than America.

I'm currently researching on how to get a Visa, and I'm trying to decide what kind I need. Can you have more than one kind of Visa? I guess what I need is something that covers being a student and an instructor. But since I probably won't be able to get a job as a teacher without a BA or BS degree, I might want to get something that covers student and skilled labor. I'll write my embassy and they'll probably send me a pamphlet or something.

Thanks a lot for the info guys! I really appreciate it! :D

[xanid]

I definitely would have tried to learn more japanese, especially kanji. It's just damn frustrating to find yourself suddenly illiterate when you move here. Having said that, so far everyone's been quite patient with this bumbling gaijin's attempts at communication.

I haven't (yet) experienced any of the racism others have talked about. Perhaps it's because I've only been here 4 months, perhaps because I can't understand most of what people are saying, perhaps because I go out much of the time with my Japanese wife and children, perhaps I'm just too dense to notice it. There's racism everywhere, even in tolerant multicultural Canada you will get jerks who blame all their social problems on immigrants. I won't let the ignorant few spoil things for me.

[Xephon]

Yeah, I'll definitely be sure to learn as much Japanese as I can. The only problem is finding a school close by that actually has Japanese classes. At the moment the best I can do is use the Pimsleur learning cd's, which essentially teaches you different ways to say, "I don't know Japanese very well," "Where is [insert name] station," "I'm American," and, "It's nice/bad weather, isn't it?" lol. Just yesterday I had an idea, and searched around the close school districts for high schools that had Japanese classes. I actually found a high school, Phoenix High, that has a Japanese teacher named Atsuko Murakami. Maybe she'll teach me, woot! The most I can do until then is keep saving up with my part time job, continue my freshman studies with the local community college, and listen to my Pimsleur cds while I drink my coffee, lol.

[kuro_kitty]

Staring, spitting, and bitching, eh? lol. Where I'm from most of the non-foreigners around here get upset at the Latinos, mostly because some of them don't speak clear english. I can probably make accurate inferrences from how they're treated and expect that from impatient and intolerant people in Japan. And as for the 3-month-gaijin, I think if I'm tough enough (gulp) I'll stay there for a lot longer than that. I've been thinking about this for the longest time, and I'm sure that I want to go, regardless of the punishment I know I'm asking for, lol. Maybe I will end up being a 3-month-gaijin, but I have to give it a shot. And I'm already a criminal, so there's no problem there... just kidding.

Funny you should mention NOVA, Lucifer! I had been looking at that company and I was wondering if they paid or if you paid to get to Japan. Now I know! I'm just getting started in taking Japanese 1, so I guess I'm on the right track as far as learning before I go. And scholarship? I didn't know that they had scholarships that go across seas. If that's the case then I'll ask my bank about getting a loan for college over there. From what I've heard education in Japan has higher standards than America.

I'm currently researching on how to get a Visa, and I'm trying to decide what kind I need. Can you have more than one kind of Visa? I guess what I need is something that covers being a student and an instructor. But since I probably won't be able to get a job as a teacher without a BA or BS degree, I might want to get something that covers student and skilled labor. I'll write my embassy and they'll probably send me a pamphlet or something.

Thanks a lot for the info guys! I really appreciate it! :D

I didn't say my first 3 months were the best...in fact far from it.... my first 3 months were terrible, then I started to ignore the racism and relax about all the unwanted attention I received.....plodded along for a bit longer, found some stuff I really enjoyed, got comfortable in the job, then took a long vacation. Came back here and the racism and spitting and sh@t has been magnified. Not sure if it was the tsunami that had effected my attitude or whether it was the fact that I experienced a shitload less racism in SE Asia, but something has changed my thoughts on Japan this last week or so and I'm not a happy camper anymore.


Regarding NOVA.....whether or not you have to pay a fee for an interview will depend where you live. For example, people from Melbourne Australia had to pay $250 (I think) for an interview, but people from Sydney didn't have to pay sh@t (hehehe)...but we all had to pay for our airfares.

[Nantana]

In my experience here the racism had been minimal, now that may be because Im living in Tomakomai (a small town in hokkaido). The people are very friendly but the city lacks the excitement that i suppose any small city does. Regardless it has its pluses, ice hockey for example, its Japans most famous ice hockey city, pretty convenient for a Canadian I suppose. In short every different area is going to have different pros and cons. For me the biggest plus is moderate temperature in summers, perfect for outdoor activities (about 25C) such as mountain climbing or soccer, golf etc

As for Nova, if you want easy, mind numbing, assembly line type work everyday then its the place for you. In the past we had the benefit of some freedom in the way we taught (for example we could use newspaper articles or supplementary books) but recently Nova has squeezed these materials out of the system and made every lesson basically the same regardless of who teaches it. Very structured, very conversation book-like, very boring for teachers especially and eventually students too.
In all honesty i think theyve screwed up big time with their new textbook and teaching style but who knows maybe the usagi and overwhelming marketing can outweigh any logistic or internal business mistake.

My advice would be to stay away from Nova, theyre tricky as you know if youve read a lot of the posts here and in my opinion theyre going in the wrong direction.

Good luck with the research and japanese study.

[BKun]

Hi there,
It sounds like you have been thinking about this for a while. That can be a good thing or a bad thing. It may sound a little trite (spelling?) but your attitude and expectations will have a big impact on your experience. I think there is a parable or some kind of story about a guy who asks about a town he comes to and he is told that it is exactly like the one he left... (sorry, I am not much of a story teller. ha ha... I hope you know the story...)

If you have a reason for coming, then find a way to fulfill that reason. And try to get out and experience as much as you can.

About the discrimination and such... many people from places like Canada and the US are not familiar with discrimination on an intimate level. Yeah, we know it happens in some places, but we have never been the recipient of such... But then we come to Japan and it happens to us. It can be a huge shock. This does not mean Japan is this huge discriminatory place... it just means that suddenly it is personal. And it will happen to you. But again, your attitude will decide how much it will affect you.

For those of you that have only been here a short while, may I suggest you take a few moments and try and count how many people you pass in a day (okay, if you are in Tokyo, that would be next to impossible... try just the inside of the trains..). Now, take a good estimate on how many people you see before you meet a bad, rude, or downright offensive person. Admittedly, this won't be an accurate measure but it will give you a little more appreciation for the fact that the rude and offensive people are the MINORITY! A very small minority!

Non-asian foreigners are a fraction of one percent of the population. And even in Tokyo, despite being an "international" city, there are a lot of people who have no clue about life outside this tiny little island. The Japanese people who have more experience (living and traveling abroad) are often embarrased by their ignorant countrymen. Again, they (the ignorant people) do not mean to be rude, they simply do not know any better. (That does not excuse the behaviour, we just need to educate these people better.)

I always recommend people to come here. If they have a good time, great! If they have a bad time, hopefully it is a learning experience for them. If you have wanted to come here for a while, then please do so!
As for the number of negative posts... I liken it to the numbers/explanations often given in business courses (about marketing and service, etc)... The negative people tend to talk a lot more about their negative experience than the positive or neutral people. Keep that in mind. For many of us, Japan is a wonderful place (warts and all)!

[person]

If that's the case then I'll ask my bank about getting a loan for college over there. From what I've heard education in Japan has higher standards than America.



This is probably the least important thing you wrote, but, once I read it, it was very difficult for me to continue on reading. If you think Japan has higher standards than America...particularly at the college/university level, you are sadly mistaken. One of the biggest hurdles many of us who teach at universities (even very GOOD universities) is that education/learning is viewed entirely differently than "back home". For many, going to university is just 4 years of going through the motions...a "rest period" between high school and work. You can fault America for many things (any country for that matter), but - particularly at the post-secondary level - our colleges/universities are some of the finest in the world. And even at those not ranked as one of the finest, the whole philosophy of learning/education is markedly different here. Ask me how shocked I was when I found out grade point averages don't exist for many (most?) students. Actual grades don't matter. That would be fine if someone were interested in "true" learning then; however, such is not usually the case. College/university life is about spending time with friends, working part-time, etc.

This is too long and somewhat off topic. However, whatever gave you the idea that Japan has higher standards at the post-secondary level is...just plain wrong.

[paulh]

I'm currently researching on how to get a Visa, and I'm trying to decide what kind I need. Can you have more than one kind of Visa? I guess what I need is something that covers being a student and an instructor. But since I probably won't be able to get a job as a teacher without a BA or BS degree, I might want to get something that covers student and skilled labor. I'll write my embassy and they'll probably send me a pamphlet or something.
D

Dont waste your breath and energy, You can only have one visa at a time and if you want to change you have to go into immigration and get the stamp changed in your passport. Either you are a student or you are a full time language teacher, or working part time, under 20 hours a week.

Students can work part time in Japan but must be attending school full time.

Teaching at a conversation school is not what I call skilled labor. Ite people with degrees paid to chat to Japanese students for 8 hours a day.

[paulh]

This is too long and somewhat off topic. However, whatever gave you the idea that Japan has higher standards at the post-secondary level is...just plain wrong.

I will second the above post. Japanese universities are nurseries for 20 year olds, where we wipe their bottoms till they graduate.

[For ALL]

If you knew what you know now about your experiences in Japan, what would you have done differently before going there?

*I could not drive when I came to Japan, and ended up going to a Japanese driving school for 30man yen. If I got my licence in NZ, it would only cost 3,500 yen. One company I worked for would not hire me without a licence. So I wasted a lot of money learning to drive.

*When I was leaving NZ, I thought we would only spend 3 years in Japan. So we put everything into the storage (new washing machine, etc. etc.). I wish I sold everything then making money, as later we ended giving most things away from the storage, including the washing machine, stereos, furniture, etc. The storage is empty now, and we're still in Japan 8 years later, with no plans of moving back to NZ, only go there on business trips.

*If I knew I would start a company in Japan, I would not bother with so many Japanese literature courses. I think I would focus my studies more on business, and should've taken at least one accounting paper.

Hope this answers your question.

Natalia Roschina
Director
For ALL Co., Ltd.
Sapporo, Hokkaido, Japan

[For ALL]

Lots of people here are obviously anti-foreigner and sometimes that makes it very very hard to be happy here.

Kitty

You are obviously here for wrong reasons. And it is up to you to create anti-foreign behaviour. I have been here for 9 years total, I am as foreign as one can be (blond, outspoken- you name it), and I do not find Japan anti-foreign. Of course, there are anti-foreign idiots, but they are not in the majority. And I have learnt to make the best out of being foreign (my journalism work for example).

If you tell the world you are in Japan for money, and that you do not like Japan, you will find not only anti-foreign behaviour from Japanese, you would find anti-you attitudes from many gaijin here, who are here because their heart is here. If you learn more about money, you can learn to make money no matter where you are, and you would not need to be stuck in the country you hate. I know I am lucky, but I felt extra lucky after reading your post, as I live in Hokkaido which I absolutely love.

I can send you "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" for 1,000 yen including postage (special price to you), and you read it if you want to learn more about money. If you want it, send me your postal address in the private message.

Hope you find your way out of Japan soon. Or find a way to be happy here and stop bleating about it.

Natalia @ For ALL

[kaitai]

Kitty

There are always going to be nasty people no matter where you go in the world. I personally think that the Chinese in Hong Kong are ruder than the Japanese!! Hong Kong is the spitting and bitchin` capital of the world!

I`m sorry to hear that you have experienced some bad stuff here in Japan... I have too but I blame the individuals, not the Japanese as a whole.
As with all foreign languages, the easiest words to learn are the bad ones and I`m not afraid to use them here in Japan if someone gets on my wrong side.

Kitty, are you frustrated because of not being able to express yourself towards nasty individuals because of not knowing what to say?? Or because you feel it would be out of place as a "Gaijin" to use negative terms towards the Japanese considering that you are in "their" country??

If you want to make a happier life for yourself in Japan. Stop thinking yourself as a foreigner... I`m not saying that you should change yourself to fit in but more the attitude that you don`t belong here.
You have a purpose in Japan. If the Japanese could find a "native" to do your job better, you wouldn`t be here in the first place. You have as much right to be in Japan as anyone else irrespective of whether it`s for money or to live here permanently.

Take my job for example (car buyer) ... Loads of Japanese doing what I do but my customers in the UK prefer me over my Japanese ____erparts (Yes, I mispelt it on purpose) because I work a lot harder.

Don`t let the idiots here get you down and if you need to learn a few bad words.... I`m only a PM away ;-)

[Xephon]

I will second the above post. Japanese universities are nurseries for 20 year olds, where we wipe their bottoms till they graduate.

I guess I should be more careful as to who I listen to about places I haven't been. And no GPA's? Makes it sound like a one of those special education classes, but on a large scale. I think grades are very important, regardless of what stage of life you're in. It sounds like they hand out diplomas like candy. I certainly don't want to learn under those circumstances. And it wasn't my intention at all to fault American colleges or their teachers at all, and I appologize if it seemed that way. It's not as if I want to go to Japan to abandon my country and spit on our constitution. I'm following my dreams and a set of goals. As to those who responded to the college part, you guys are teachers too, huh? Any advice on the classroom area as far as teaching goes? Since I want to go there as a teacher, I want to be able to do my best. If most of the students go there for the "rest period" between school life and real life, then I guess I should be prepared to focus on keeping them interested in learning and not just jumping through the hoops.

And as far as NOVA goes, if they don't allow teachers to bring in supplementary teaching articles then I don't want to work for them. That is just plain stupid. I learn better from 'hands-on' type of learning, and so do majority of my own classmates. IMO textbooks should be there for essential learning structure, not the entire learning experience. Of course I realize I'm saying all this out of complete ignorance, but hopefully you'll understand my intentions.

I think I can deal with the discrimination, be it a little or a lot. I should be ok as long as I keep in mind that my dreams and goals are more important than a native's poor attitude. That's a bummer about the visa BTW, and I assume it costs to get it changed.

I appreciate the brutal honesty in here. The no-bs feedback is really helpful in making my goals more specific. Now I know that I should get a BA in America, a visa as a full time teacher, and a job NOT with NOVA.

[paulh]

I guess I should be more careful as to who I listen to about places I haven't been. And no GPA's? Makes it sound like a one of those special education classes, but on a large scale. I think grades are very important, regardless of what stage of life you're in. It sounds like they hand out diplomas like candy. I certainly don't want to learn under those circumstances. And it wasn't my intention at all to fault American colleges or their teachers at all, and I appologize if it seemed that way. It's not as if I want to go to Japan to abandon my country and spit on our constitution. I'm following my dreams and a set of goals. As to those who responded to the college part, you guys are teachers too, huh? Any advice on the classroom area as far as teaching goes? Since I want to go there as a teacher, I want to be able to do my best. If most of the students go there for the "rest period" between school life and real life, then I guess I should be prepared to focus on keeping them interested in learning and not just jumping through the hoops..

Xephon


one of the hardest things about working here is reconciling your own educational experience and training, and what you find when you come here- you expect students to think and behave as a student would back home but when you have students sleep in class, send emails, not turn up to class and still pass the class it is a shock. Students here get a grade for attendance and can pass simply by turning up.


The goals of education here are different. In the US you go to university to get an education and training and then try and sell yourself to employers. You will be judged on your grades and performance and GPAs etc. In Japan, all that is important is what university you graduate from, and not what you study so much, as once you graduate the company will train you. They do not necessarily want someone with specific skills in law, business etc, as All they want is blank slates from a certain level of university whome they can mold in the company colors when they graduate. For this reason the struggle to get into a good university at high school is fierce, and the entrance exam to enter a university is make or break as it decides what kind of job you can get on graduation. Once you are in a university its almost guaranteed you will graduate in 4 years. In the US, universities are easy to enter, hard to graduate. This is why students slack off in high school but study hard in university if they want ti graduate. In japan its the opposite. If students dont get into a university they have to repeat a year,become a ronin, and can affet their job prospects etc as people the same year at high school now become their seniors in the compnay. English is not compulsory in high school but becuase it is in the university entrance exams it becomes de facto necessary to study English if you want to get into university, even if you hate English or are no good at it. Its like being told you have to study German or French even though your major is science or maths at high school, and you cant go to university without it. This is one of the big problems with education here, is that English is not taught for its own sake but as a screening device to get into university. Universities charge high fees for students to take entrance exams and they make a lot of money from students paying these fees. its like a toll charge to enter the university, and you have 100's of 1,000's of students ever year taking these tests trying to get into a university. The goal here is not to learn English but to graduate as smoothly and quickly as possible and so the minimum necessary to achieve that goal. Actual learning is secondary.

this is why you have students who join clubs, do part time job, sleep in class. They just need to turn up enough times and they will pass. If you fail a student in his senior year the school can change the grade to give him a passing grade, so grades here are meaning less.

I teach at a university in Kyoto and though its very nice to be idealistic, the reality is that you will have large classes and teach 3 or 4 classes a day. I teach twelve classes a week, with 40 students in them. thats 500 names and faces you have to learn to recognise, give tests for, grade and mark and track their progress. Many you will see once a week if that, and some of them will miss 5 or 6 classes a term. All you can do is teach your classes, keep on top of the paperwork and make sure you dont fail too many or one that should pass. Many are not that interested in English but have to take the class as its not an elective. They are just bums on seats chasing after a credit. The best you cna do to stop yourself going crazy is make the class as fun and stimulating as possible. if you are doing 12-15, or 20 classes a week you will burn yourself out if you worry about whether individual students are learning anything. This is mass-production education.

You get students who do study, who like English and make an effort but for the majority they are dead on arrival.





I
And as far as NOVA goes, if they don't allow teachers to bring in supplementary teaching articles then I don't want to work for them. That is just plain stupid. I learn better from 'hands-on' type of learning, and so do majority of my own classmates. IMO textbooks should be there for essential learning structure, not the entire learning experience. Of course I realize I'm saying all this out of complete ignorance, but hopefully you'll understand my intentions.
.

NOVA has something like 250 branches, 4000 teachers who are working there and if you have students going from one branch to the other with different teachers you need some kind of standardisation. Its like you go to MCDonalds in Tokyo, Bahrain or Sydney and it tastes exactly the same. If you have teachers going in and doing their own thing, standards and quality go out the window as students arent learning what they are supposed to, and there is no guarantee the teachers methods are effective. NOVA doesnt want its teachers re-inventing the wheel and going off on their own and not singing with teh choir. The textbooks are there to make sure all students are learning in the same way throughout the company.

You are also forgetting that NOVA is not a school but a business. The aim of NOVA is profit, to get as many students paying fees as possible, as many lessons in the day as possible. teaching quality goes out the window when a teacher is teaching 6, 7 ot 8 classes in a row. You can not keep up the same cheerful chirpy attitude when you have taught the same low level lesson 4 times in a row,

Not sure what you mean by hands-on. In nOVA its you, four students, a desk and a chair and no room to swing a cat in. No room to move around and no roleplays. There is not even a blackboard in the room. The textbook is a teaching tool and by definition can not teach itself- its just a book. Textbooks can not roleplays and listening exercises. Only teachers can.

a lot depends on the individual teacher and how they use the material and bring it to life. that comes with experience and training, but the average person who works there has never taught before, knows nothing about ESL teaching methodology. They follow the book as they know no other way. More experienced teachers will use other ideas and techniques but NOVA doesnt wnat you doing too much of your own thing, as students still have to pass the level tests to go to the next level. loose cannons detract from that goal.



II appreciate the brutal honesty in here. The no-bs feedback is really helpful in making my goals more specific. Now I know that I should get a BA in America, a visa as a full time teacher, and a job NOT with NOVA.

NOVA itself is not bad or the incarnation of evil. Its just a big company with hundreds of offices around the country. there are 4000 people working for them as teachers now. Most people have this image of teaching and education and helping students, a kind of idealistic utopia but find the reality different. NOVA is a company, a business, in the business of making money for PROFIT, and to keep students coming back and paying fees. English conversation is like the gasoline that feeds the company. NOVA clientele are customers, more than students. and you as the teacher are the foreign show window of the company 'selling' English to your students.
If you are serious about teaching i suggest you do a CELTA, perhaps a masters in TESOL and then consider getting a job in a high school or a university. For the majority though, they are not serious enough about teaching to want to spend money to get extra training or skills. they just want a paycheck so they survive month to month can party on weekends and travel around the country in their free time.





Working at NOVA is what you make of it, and while not perfect, is OK for someone in their first year, with no teaching skills, no experience, no Japanese abity, new to the country and job and wanting to get started here. For those with none of the above, NOVA GEOS, ECC and AEON are your only choice at least in the beginning until you get some experience. You can say no to NOVA but the other big schools are not that much different in actuality.

For more on NOVA


http://www.vocaro.com/trevor/japan/nova/level_up.html

[kuro_kitty]

Kitty

You are obviously here for wrong reasons. And it is up to you to create anti-foreign behaviour. I have been here for 9 years total, I am as foreign as one can be (blond, outspoken- you name it), and I do not find Japan anti-foreign. Of course, there are anti-foreign idiots, but they are not in the majority. And I have learnt to make the best out of being foreign (my journalism work for example).

If you tell the world you are in Japan for money, and that you do not like Japan, you will find not only anti-foreign behaviour from Japanese, you would find anti-you attitudes from many gaijin here, who are here because their heart is here. If you learn more about money, you can learn to make money no matter where you are, and you would not need to be stuck in the country you hate. I know I am lucky, but I felt extra lucky after reading your post, as I live in Hokkaido which I absolutely love.

I can send you "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" for 1,000 yen including postage (special price to you), and you read it if you want to learn more about money. If you want it, send me your postal address in the private message.

Hope you find your way out of Japan soon. Or find a way to be happy here and stop bleating about it.

Natalia @ For ALL

I'm not here for the wrong reasons at all (no pun intended). I was here for different reasons 3 months or so ago, but my attitude, of late, has been demorailised by a high incidence of anti-foreign beaviour from the locals....which I thought I could ignore....but has made me even more repressed and now I've just got to let it out.....any way, isn't it better that I vent here on this site than in public....?

You make some good points, Natalie, but I'm not advertising the fact that I'm here to save money, now.....I'd feel stupid advertising it, as there's not much of it to make anymore, I'm here for different reasons.

I just have one thing to say to you.................bleat bleat bleat, bleatity bleat bleat and there was a big bleater on the bleat bleat so I bleated and the bleater became a bleatity big bleataroony

bleat bleat bleat
bleat
bleater bleat bleateroony

[kuro_kitty]

Kitty


I`m sorry to hear that you have experienced some bad stuff here in Japan... I have too but I blame the individuals, not the Japanese as a whole.
As with all foreign languages, the easiest words to learn are the bad ones and I`m not afraid to use them here in Japan if someone gets on my wrong side.

Kitty, are you frustrated because of not being able to express yourself towards nasty individuals because of not knowing what to say?? Or because you feel it would be out of place as a "Gaijin" to use negative terms towards the Japanese considering that you are in "their" country??

;-)

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I know I come across as ignorant and no, I don't blame the race as a whole, I just seem to cross the paths of lots of mean individuals, which again, reflects poorly on the entire population...I have heaps of lovely, open minded Japanese friends, but they still baby me and treat me like an uneducated novelty....

I have just had enough and as much as I'd love it for you to teach me some key survival phrases when I run into trouble, I just don't have the motivation anymore to use them....thanks again though

[hansel]

The goals of education here are different. In the US you go to university to get an education and training and then try and sell yourself to employers. You will be judged on your grades and performance and GPAs etc. In Japan, all that is important is what university you graduate from, and not what you study so much, as once you graduate the company will train you. They do not necessarily want someone with specific skills in law, business etc, as All they want is blank slates from a certain level of university whome they can mold in the company colors when they graduate.


I graduated from some Japanese university and I'm Japanese so it is kind a shame for me to agree with you, Paulh, however what you told about the education system in Japan is so right. "So hard to enter and easy to graduate" in high school and university. Before we finish a junior high (13-15 years old) we are leveled by the results of exams we had and sorted into some groups and told "you can take a exam to get in xx high school as you have ** level out of whole students". I can say deciding high school to enter has an effect on universities you can think whether there is a possibility of getting in or not. People can apply and take exams for any schools, universities, of course . However, I am not sure it's appropriate to say that but the high school we get in sor t of gives us some kind of lmits on universities which we can choose to apply from.

Telling my experience, I graduated a local high school which is considered as a "school where the students who got grade mark in junior high can be in". I didn't have any problem with that, I mean I didn't know well what I wanted to do at that time. I was put in the flow and had no idea, yes, I am a typical Japanese. Just be in the flow then should be no problem, that's kind of thing which I regret a lot now.
I reaully liked studying English and decided to take examinations for a few universities where I can take "foreign lauguage course" as a major. I could enter one of them and went to that university for 4 years.
I've been to some foreign countries after I graduated from the university and I've learned so many things, way more than I had learned in the university despite my parents spent a huge money for me to go. I have no idea how much I've spent to learn by myself outside Japan. I always regret why I hadn't put myself into another culture while I was in university. Then I didn't need to waste my precious 2-3 years and my parent's' money either. I should've known better.

As you said in your thread, we could get a good mark enough to pass that class just to attend in. So many students come into a classroom until teacher finishes taking a attendance and get out , I've done this several times. Teachers know, students know, everyone knows that is bad and shouldn't be allowed, however, nobody takes it as a problem. That is the way. That is it, unfortunately. The best thing I got in my university for 4 years is friends. I learned something for sure, but those were just extensions of the things I had studied in high school. Which is maybe because of my major. If it had been math or biology or something it might have been different. We mostly are given in a classroom and we think, I should say most of us students never doubt it. We sit in a classroom to be given by a teacher.

So when we get a job and become a member of some company, we still expect to be given. I know there have been many young people who stop and think "Is that right? and give or express what they think , what's happend to them next? They were treated like "a rebel". I think there are few examples of succeeding. It's 21st century so there might have been some changed in Japanese society, hopefully.

Anyway, I know making a change needs a lot of work and some kind of attitude, courage. I also know most of us still wait for somebody's making a change. Even I'm writing this stufff, there's too many things I don't know about Japan. Yes, that's the problem. We just don't know about what we must know. I've noticed the reality lately which is very shameful but I'm glad to know that and I appreciate my husband and his country to let me notice.

[paulh]

I As you said in your thread, we could get a good mark enough to pass that class just to attend in. So many students come into a classroom until teacher finishes taking a attendance and get out , I've done this several times. Teachers know, students know, everyone knows that is bad and shouldn't be allowed, however, nobody takes it as a problem. That is the way. That is it, unfortunately. The best thing I got in my university for 4 years is friends. I learned something for sure, but those were just extensions of the things I had studied in high school. Which is maybe because of my major. If it had been math or biology or something it might have been different. We mostly are given in a classroom and we think, I should say most of us students never doubt it. We sit in a classroom to be given by a teacher. .

Hansel, I have stopped beating myself up over attendance etc as I am teaching too many classes and its too much hassle. I simply tell students now if they are absent 5 classes they will fail the course so they come up every period wanting to know how often they are absent. Students cant expect to learn English though if they come to only 10 English classes a semester though. 15 classes is only 45 hours, less if you count roll calls, tests etc. I will try to make grades from tests etc but marking a lot of tests is a lot of work for one person, and only i see the grade anyway.

Im sure some Japanese professors probably dont care either.




ISo when we get a job and become a member of some company, we still expect to be given. I know there have been many young people who stop and think "Is that right? and give or express what they think , what's happend to them next? They were treated like "a rebel". I think there are few examples of succeeding. It's 21st century so there might have been some changed in Japanese society, hopefully. .

I get a few who are rebels but once they enter a company they become salarimen. Deru kugi o ataeru. I get a few students who come back from the US speaking English and they are too embarassed to speak English in front of their friends as people think they are showing off, even though they have spent 7 or 8 years studying the language. Sad.



IAnyway, I know making a change needs a lot of work and some kind of attitude, courage. I also know most of us still wait for somebody's making a change. Even I'm writing this stufff, there's too many things I don't know about Japan. Yes, that's the problem. We just don't know about what we must know. I've noticed the reality lately which is very shameful but I'm glad to know that and I appreciate my husband and his country to let me notice.


PS I dont known if its just me but many students tell me they dont like the Japanese professors class as its boring and he just sits up the front and lectures for 60 minutes and dont use English etc. Some Japanese teachers got worse reviews than the foreign teachers in recent surveys becuase of their dull teaching style. No wonder students dont learn anything nor are interested in English.

[person]

PS I dont known if its just me but many students tell me they dont like the Japanese professors class as its boring and he just sits up the front and lectures for 60 minutes and dont use English etc. Some Japanese teachers got worse reviews than the foreign teachers in recent surveys becuase of their dull teaching style. No wonder students dont learn anything nor are interested in English.


Actually, here's something a little funny - Not only do many students complain about the Japanese teachers (not all of the Japanese teachers, of course), but many of the students also complain about the tenured foreign teachers. Maybe it's because all of them are older men (in the case of one of my universities), but students don't seem to be thrilled with their classes at all. Of course, as sad as it is to say, one reason (I'm sure) is the "genk factor". I mean, I'm quite certain the teachers in question don't...pander(?) to the students quite so much. Part of this has to do with getting too...comfortable with their teaching; part of it is that it's not their personality to do so; part of it is...their jobs have never been at stake, so to speak. However, just recently, they have started being evaluated by the students. A wakeup call perhaps? I don't know.

Let's face it though - yes, some teachers are boring just lecturing (particularly inappropriate for a language course I would think). Yet, some of these students (many?) are simply looking to be entertained for an hour and a half. Not all, of course. I mean, I have plenty of students who partake in the fun...and, let's face it, an enjoyable hour and a half is better for everyone (including the teacher).

As all faculty members come to be evaluated (not just part-time teachers but full-time tenured ones as well), I trust more than one teacher - foreign or not - will come to see that his/her teaching style may not be...wholly appreciated. They will have to decide from there what they are comfortable with, what's best for the students, etc. Time will tell.

[waller]

The idea of students evaluating teachers is not a bad one in some respects. We all know the teacher who copies the same old stuff year in and year out, and really needs a boot up the arse but....and it's a bit but, I hate to think of teachers being held to ransom by these evaluations, being 'graded' on the popularity/entertainment value of their lessons. Many students over here do expect to be handed it on a plate, and it is likely that teachers who do not put on a good show, or compromise their teaching to meet certain expectations, may get low ratings from some students. Similarly, disgruntled students can easily use the evaluation process to retaliate against teachers/lecturers.

A private language school in my home city, run by a shitty MBA graduate with ____all knowlege of ESL, used to let students evaluate each new teacher at the end of their first week. If it was a thumbs down, out the teacher went. The school was promising something like a 2 band improvement in IELTS score over a 12 week course!

So, while educators need to be accountable as everyone should be, I think too much reliance on student evaluation can be an extremely slippery slope.

[paulh]

I am following a discussion on a mailing list of a full time teacher in Hokkaido who shall remain nameless, who is being hung out to dry by his school over some of the content of his classes.
Some students have taken a dislike to some sexually-themed videos he showed in his class and rated it as sexual harassment and apparently the school has taken a straw poll of his teaching without showing him the results, only the negative stuff. They wont tell him who took the poll, what they said, so its easy for the school to set the teacher up based on cooked figures.

It is a slippery slope when a school decides not to renew your contract based on what your students think of you as a teacher.

I think he also found there is a direct correlation between a grade you give the student and their rating on a survey. If you give a student a low grade he will rate you poorly etc hence the tendency to be engaged in a 'popularity' contest with the students so you can keep your job or your classes.

Students may decide who is a popular teacher etc but are often not in a position to know what good teaching is and what works in a classroom and what the teacher is aiming at in doing a particular task. Playing games and having fun is not always educational and not in the students best interests.

[Xephon]

Teaching sounds like it can be tough, aside from students trying to skip out on classes and grading papers. It'd really suck to get fired because you gave a student the grade they deserved, lol. Think they're planning on doing that to all teachers in all the schools? Or are they already doing that or something of the like?

[kuro_kitty]

Teaching sounds like it can be tough, aside from students trying to skip out on classes and grading papers. It'd really suck to get fired because you gave a student the grade they deserved, lol. Think they're planning on doing that to all teachers in all the schools? Or are they already doing that or something of the like?

They're talking about "real" teachers Xeph, not the poor excuses for teachers....the lowly language "instructors"

Don't worry, if you want to instruct English/Spanish...whatever....if students are bored with your lesson style they will ask to be taught by someone else at your school....they are paying big bucks to learn English and most students, if not happy, will complain and you will get a bad mark against your name.

[person]

It is my belief/hope that most decent schools understand that they can only put so much faith in student evaluations. This is why, in addition to being evaluated by students, a teacher should be evaluated by other faculty (the Dept. Head, Dean, etc.). In doing so, you will have a "professional" measure of your teaching ability...from someone (perhaps) more qualified to do so.

One kind of funny example from my student evaluations from this past term. On one of them, a student wrote (in Japanese as well as English) "I'm afraid". Since I'm the one to hand in my evaluations to administration (I know, kind of questionable), I was in the position to take that survey out had I felt so inclined. I did not. As far as I'm concerned, there's probably more than one student that should have been afraid in that particular class. <I laugh.> Education is markedly different here; however, when all is said and done, my teaching style will not change so much that I no longer feel I'm doing a good job (by my own standards). Personally, I have no desire to please every student; that's impossible. So, as any teacher should, I welcome all feedback; I will take all of it into consideration...giving some more consideration than others.

I could go on and on, but I'll spare all of you. The bottom line is that, perhaps due to the schools/departments I teach in, many of the students are actually interested in learning. Because of this, a class that is both enjoyable and educational is best for all involved. Therefore, their happiness/satisfaction is, in a very real sense, an important measure. However, as with any school/class, there are those students whose motivation is anything less than...educational. Those students' voices should be heard; however, statistically speaking, they amount to much less.

I know for a fact that there are many teachers (heck, I had them as a student too) who, after a few years (decades) stop really...evolving as a professional. While our personalities do, in fact, matter, our knowledge/experience is what should be more highly valued (I would think). Therefore, while we may not be able/wish to change our teaching style (please read more as personality here) because, after all, it's very much a reflection of who we are, we should/need to change our teaching techniques/approaches to disseminating information. The fact that here in Japan personality (and, yes, even appearance) plays an unusually important part in what is deemed "effective teaching", I guess that's just part of the...game(?).

Food for thought...just don't get sick while digesting! Forgive any errors; must get to a museum now!

[Xephon]

They're talking about "real" teachers Xeph, not the poor excuses for teachers....the lowly language "instructors"

Don't worry, if you want to instruct English/Spanish...whatever....if students are bored with your lesson style they will ask to be taught by someone else at your school....they are paying big bucks to learn English and most students, if not happy, will complain and you will get a bad mark against your name.

Are you calling me lowly?! :P! lol

I do actually plan on becoming a 'real' teacher someday. I figure starting out as a lowly instructor should get my foot in the door as far as teaching in Japan goes. I'm still not really sure though, if I want to have a career as a high school teacher, or as a college professor. I'm sure there's a big pay difference, but I'm also sure that there's a major difference in teaching environments. I guess I need to decide what age group I'd be better at teaching. I've worked as a teacher's aid and student tutor in both my high school and at my community college, and I didn't really see much of a difference as far as teaching goes. However, at the time they were also my peers, so I should probably take into account that the longer I teach at one grade level, the farther apart mine and the students understanding will be. Hmmm. I've got time to decide I think. Any teachers out there who've taught to different age groups?

[paulh]

Are you calling me lowly?! :P! lol

I do actually plan on becoming a 'real' teacher someday. I figure starting out as a lowly instructor should get my foot in the door as far as teaching in Japan goes. I'm still not really sure though, if I want to have a career as a high school teacher, or as a college professor. I'm sure there's a big pay difference, but I'm also sure that there's a major difference in teaching environments. I guess I need to decide what age group I'd be better at teaching. I've worked as a teacher's aid and student tutor in both my high school and at my community college, and I didn't really see much of a difference as far as teaching goes. However, at the time they were also my peers, so I should probably take into account that the longer I teach at one grade level, the farther apart mine and the students understanding will be. Hmmm. I've got time to decide I think. Any teachers out there who've taught to different age groups?


Xephon,

I may be wrong here, but my guess is many of the teachers working at high schools or universities 'fell into' their jobs almost by accident by hearing about a job opening and then applying, and continuing to work there once they find they enjoy it. If they dont like it they may quit and do something else. It will take you a year or so to find your sea legs, get used to living here and used to Japanese students. You may perhaps move in social circles where you meet other high school teachers ALTs and that is where you willl hear about jobs, through informal connections. Some one leaves and they will ask you if you are free on Fridays to teach a couple of high school classes. that is how people get their foot in the door here rather than respond to an ad. Almost all of my teaching jobs in Japan have come through personal connections. You can only apply for jobs that you are qualified for so that will be a consideration as well. if you dont have a Masters degree you wont be considered for most part time college jobs for example. You have to have enough that you will even be considered for an interview.

There are differences in pay and work environment as you must remember the goals of learning will differ at different levels of education. In a high school all emphasis for students is on preparing them for the university entrance exams and English is one (rather dry) subject in an already crowded schedule. You will work in tandem with a JapaneseEnglish teacher perhaps as an ALT and not have complete control of your classes. You will not be able to discipline students for example or give them grades. High school students tend to be a little immature and less mature than kids back home- I espcially find that with college kids here, they are more like high schoolers in the west. generally high school is the most stressful and least enjoyable time for kids here, and you get a lot of discipline problems truancy, bullying etc as well.

In a university kids are older, the pressure of entrance exams is off and kids tend to slack off a bit and get more into things we would do in high school- join clubs dating, part time jobs, meeting the opposite sex. University here is kind of a release valve, and a place for delayed maturation of high school. It kind of gives kids here 4 years in which to grow up and become adults, before they enter the work force. In the US people go to university to learn a skill and become professionals but here universities serve a different role, which is why its hard when you have been to a US university (or graduate school like I have) and then see kids who sleep in class, are lazy, talk on phones and still pass the class. There isnt the same emphasis on learning and education you find at western institutions.. Some will study hard to get good grades but the majority they just coast through until graduation.

English may be compulsory in many liberal arts courses so you will have large freshman classes of 30 or 40 in a class. Try teaching conversation class to forty kids at once. There will be no Japanese teacher, just you, and you will be responsible for the class- choosing the textbook, taking attendance, dong grades etc. As far as the students are concerned you are their teacher, as you can pass and fail them as you see fit. In a high school i dont think an ALT can pass or fail students.


Universities usually require higher qualifications such as Masters degrees, and if you want to get full time positions you will need to write academic publications and have some Japanese ability. High schools the pay is not as good but there are longer hours, more club and non-teaching activities, and lots of meetings. Glenski can tell you what a private high school is like.
Teachers I know of at high schools seem to enjoy it and kids are quite malleable. At university they are young adults, so you have to be in control of your class much more or your students will run rings around you. Not so much discipline wise which is important, but getting your students respect for your abilities and getting them to do the things you want them to do, even if they dont want to most of the time. Give them a lot of homework etc and they may not like you much but they can tell if you are a good teacher and know what you are doing or not, and that comes with experience and training.

Obviously as you get older the students will seem younger- when i started here the older students were 5-6 years younger than me, now there is a 20 year age difference and they seem more like kids. I am still the same person but they seem to be getting younger. Obviously it will be the same when you are in a junior high school teaching 14 year olds.

I cant tell you which is better as everyone is different and a lot will depend on your own needs and what you prefer doing. Obviously with college jobs you will need higher qualifications which cost money to acquire and that is another consideration as well: do you like teaching or your kind of work enough to want to spend another $20,000 on a Masters or a PhD in the future?

[waller]

A Masters needn't cost that much, it depends on your home country and where you plan to do it. Mine was completed in 3 fulltime semesters and cost about $6000 NZD (that is about $4000 US)

[paulh]

A Masters needn't cost that much, it depends on your home country and where you plan to do it. Mine was completed in 3 fulltime semesters and cost about $6000 NZD (that is about $4000 US)

I did mine part time at Temple University and it cost about 2 million yen over 3 years. I know guys doing Masters degrees in Australia by distance for $12-14,000 yen.

Keep in mind if you are studying fulltime you are not working and earning as well so you have to factor in lost income not made during those 2 years as well as paying tuition fees.

$12000 is a lot of money for someone not earning anything.

[Xephon]

Thanks, Paul, that gives me a pretty good perspective on things. There's definitely a lot of factors to figure in when deciding on a career like this. Too much, I think, to be able to make a decision right now. Just as long as I can get started along the right path, I'll be ok. It would probably be best to go with the flow for now until I can weigh the factors I experience first hand, and decide if I want to go all the way and get a Masters or PhD.

As to the description about college students' behavior in class, it sounds almost exactly like my old high school. I'm not sure if I should laugh or be sobered by that, lol.

[paulh]

As to the description about college students' behavior in class, it sounds almost exactly like my old high school. I'm not sure if I should laugh or be sobered by that, lol.

I wont give you my life story (obviously annoys some people) but even though as I saw a little education never hurt anyone and as you increase your earning power the number of jobs that open up to you, you also have to weign up the actual cost of getting the degree vs what you can expect back in future income. There is obviously a cost benefit in getting ahigher degree as you can earning higher incomes, vs what you get if you dont do the degree. Not so much if you get a Masters and then get an extra $50 a month working at NOVA with a Masters., Aim for places that will pay a decent salary and help offset the cost of getting the degree. My temple degree cost 2 million yen, but paid itself off in 6 months and I can earn significantly more (for less teaching hours) than someone who did not get a degree but has a full slate of privates and business classes.

e.g imagine you stayed on a conversation school salary and worked for ten years at 3 million yen. Thats a total of 30 million yen over 10 years. Thats only if you decide after a couple of years you want to stay in teaching stay in Japan and get more training. You may decide 5 years is enough and you want to go home and do something else. You will know aftter a couple of years whether this is something you want to do long term and its not for everybody.

Do a Masters spend two million yen on a degree and then get into part time college teaching at 4.5 million a year or 45 million over 10 years. A difference of 15 million yen if you do a degree.

Once you get the Masters out of the way and your grades are good enough, you have a good research proposal, so you can get into graduate school and you can afford the fees a PhD part time is possible. I am finding that even if I do such a degree my actual income potential doesnt increase that much, but the range and type of jobs widens. Rather than just straight English teaching you can then go into 'academia' such as teaching the teachers, conducting research, writing books etc as well as jobs overseas. By the time you are in a Masters program or well along you could very well be married with or without children and very busy. Having a PhD or a Masters is nice but being able to do it while holding down a job and having a family is something else. I know a couple of people doing degrees by distance and they have families. Its not easy but probably easier when you are university a couple of extra years, no family and no commitments. Next month I fly to england by myself to spend some time on the home campus and thats really the only time during the year when I can get some work done as there are no distractions, i can meet with supervisors etc.

Anyway there is no need to rush as you are still young and you will know when the time comes if teaching is a good fit and whether you think you need to get a Masters or do something else. Doing a graduate degree requires persistence, discipline and hard work, not to mention LOTS of money.

[Unicorn]

The freshman year of university is now made up of courses to try to get the students up to high school graduate level.

This aside...Being a longterm resident here I am under no illusions about Japan or the Japanese people. I agree it is a far from perfect country, but what country is? I also had a period of "dissatisfaction" after several years here, and I now think of it as my "I'm Okay. You're not Okay" (adolescence) phase. Everything about Japan was wrong. Everyone was wrong. Fortunately, I grew up and learned that most things are not all bad or all good. Many of the foreigners here benefit from being a foreigner. It isn't everywhere that you can earn 2000 or 3000 yen or more an hour without even a decent high school education just for being able to "chat" in English with the "natives".

When you expect bad thing to happen they do! ;)

[ananda]

This aside...Being a longterm resident here I am under no illusions about Japan or the Japanese people. I agree it is a far from perfect country, but what country is? I also had a period of "dissatisfaction" after several years here, and I now think of it as my "I'm Okay. You're not Okay" (adolescence) phase. Everything about Japan was wrong. Everyone was wrong. Fortunately, I grew up and learned that most things are not all bad or all good. Many of the foreigners here benefit from being a foreigner. It isn't everywhere that you can earn 2000 or 3000 yen or more an hour without even a decent high school education just for being able to "chat" in English with the "natives".



i agree with unicorn completely on this point. most of my foreign friends who have been here for an extended period of time have been through this. i wonder if kitty isnt going through this phase. i sure did. last year, my best friend left during her "i hate japan" phase. now she lives in northern europe and misses everything about japan!

kittychan: did it ever occur to you that maybe the nationals of other SE asian countries are "nicer"/"less racist" because THEY WANT YOUR MONEY ;)
i too have travelled extensively in asia and i shudder when i hear the words "HELLO, MY FRIEND!!!" it always means someone wants my money! :)

[kuro_kitty]

kittychan: did it ever occur to you that maybe the nationals of other SE asian countries are "nicer"/"less racist" because THEY WANT YOUR MONEY ;)
i too have travelled extensively in asia and i shudder when i hear the words "HELLO, MY FRIEND!!!" it always means someone wants my money! :)

You assume that I spent my Asian vacations/adventures etc surrounded by money-hungry retailers....in actual fact I spent most of my time in other Asian countries associating with people far richer than I will probably ever be...you know the types, rich housewives and social butterflies, why would they want my money, or lack there of.....?

I just think, in general, some other Asian populations, in general, seem to be much more bubbly, fun, friendly....tell you to your face if you are being a *****.....(much prefer the truth than the two faced attitude I've experienced here....)......and just relaxed about life.................don't get me wrong, I am only speaking about the general feel of some populations in some aras of Asia...

[buds]

read more books

[kuro_kitty]

read more books
If you are responding to someone in particular *buddy* please use the quote button so that person then knows to respond..........

[Xephon]

Hi Xephon!
Are you really an Oregonian?? It says you are from Medford?

Yup, I'm really from Medford, Oregon. And thanks a lot for the input. I'm actually working my butt off at the moment trying to get all my ducks in a row to get the process started. I've been talking to a counselor at Rogue Community College recently and she's had some interesting input as well. We're going to meet up again in the next few days to see which options are actually going to work out. I'll post them on here in case anyone is interested in taking the path I'm on. As far as humidity, I don't really mind it, as long as I can get into some air conditioning every once and awhile. And yes, I have been to LA as a matter of fact. A few years ago I used to work with my dad for a company called TNT, and we did flatbed hauling. Can you imagine a triple trailer trying to make it through the outskirts of LA at 5pm? Yeah.... right lol. If it's like that in Japan, I can see myself walking whenever I don't use the trains lol. Thanks for the info. By the way, is there an online site or somewhere I can write to request a map of the train routes? I'd like to get as aquainted with them as I can BEFORE I go over there lol.

[Masuosan]

Hi Xephon!
Are you really an Oregonian?? It says you are from Medford?

Last Summer I went to Tokyo for about a month.
I can tell you some things from a fellow Oregonian's perspective. You know how humid it gets in the Summer months here... Well imagaine the worst of it, then triple that, and you will know what Tokyo feels like in the Summer months ;)

Oh, how I miss the liquid sunshine in winter, the mossy woods, then the near-perfect summer months with almost no humidity. Camping on the spit at Tillamook Bay, clamming on the shore and watching the sun sink over the Pacific... You guys are making me tear up here.

[lostintranslation]

I'm an Australian girl, lived in Tokyo for about 2.5 years and after a couple of years back home, I'm moving back to Tokyo.

I'm lucky cause I get to go back and do what I didn't do the first time around, which in my case include the following:
- study the language seriously, ie. school every day
- take necessary steps to find job doing something other than teaching (this will be hard but i'm giving myself two years to do it). I don't have anything against teaching - I just didn't find it satisfying for me.
- Get involved in more stuff, ie. take up hobbies that interest me. When I was here before i got into the whole work long hours thing and didn't focus enough on enriching my life through interests.
- Make more Japanese friends (not just the girlfriends of guys i know)
- Travel domestically. I am embarrased to say i only really know Tokyo. I spent all free time and money travelling to other countries but missed out on all the beautiful stuff Japan has to offer.

I'm sure there are more things too.

I really love Tokyo (can't say Japan since I haven't travelled around). I have never felt any rasicm toward me, and if there was, it was in no way significant enough to even mention. In fact, I've experienced the opposite - people have been so helpful. I love my lifestyle here, I love the super-busy city, i love all the cute little 8-person bars; i love that trains are clean and service is high, even at the combini. And if I were a guy, I'm sure i would love that i can get more p**** here than i've had in my life (and not have to pay for it ;-)

Kitty,

I'm assuming you teach but correct me if I'm wrong. You also mentioned you had a great job back home, a penthouse apt, plus when you go overseas you socialise with wealthy socialites. Do you think maybe you are not happy in Japan because you are used to a different lifestyle?

I know when i went back to Australia I missed the lifestyle i had in Japan with a much higher disposable income and busier social life.

[Masuosan]

Well, I was only there for five years, not long enough to form a definitive preference between the Ducks and the Beavers, to sport one of those "Proud to Be an Oregon Native" bumper stickers (and frankly I question the appropriateness of anybody doing so unless you're, say, Paiute or Kalapuyan), or to forget how to pump my own gas, but long enough to figure out what a slice of heaven you've got there socially and ecologically, to drink lots of good brew (Full Sail Amber!), to grow some webbed feet, and yes to get spoiled to the no-sales-tax deal. It wouldn't be too surprising if I made it back to settle there one day. But to anyone else who happens to read this, stay away from Oregon! It rains all the time!

Now, not that this thread has been on topic for quite some time, but...

Foreignors coming to Japan be forewarned: You WILL be discriminated against in all kinds of distasteful ways. Luckily there's always the GP to whine on.

[kuro_kitty]

I'm an Australian girl, lived in Tokyo for about 2.5 years and after a couple of years back home, I'm moving back to Tokyo.

I'm lucky cause I get to go back and do what I didn't do the first time around, which in my case include the following:
- study the language seriously, ie. school every day
- take necessary steps to find job doing something other than teaching (this will be hard but i'm giving myself two years to do it). I don't have anything against teaching - I just didn't find it satisfying for me.
- Get involved in more stuff, ie. take up hobbies that interest me. When I was here before i got into the whole work long hours thing and didn't focus enough on enriching my life through interests.
- Make more Japanese friends (not just the girlfriends of guys i know)
- Travel domestically. I am embarrased to say i only really know Tokyo. I spent all free time and money travelling to other countries but missed out on all the beautiful stuff Japan has to offer.

I'm sure there are more things too.

I really love Tokyo (can't say Japan since I haven't travelled around). I have never felt any rasicm toward me, and if there was, it was in no way significant enough to even mention. In fact, I've experienced the opposite - people have been so helpful. I love my lifestyle here, I love the super-busy city, i love all the cute little 8-person bars; i love that trains are clean and service is high, even at the combini. And if I were a guy, I'm sure i would love that i can get more p**** here than i've had in my life (and not have to pay for it ;-)

Kitty,

I'm assuming you teach but correct me if I'm wrong. You also mentioned you had a great job back home, a penthouse apt, plus when you go overseas you socialise with wealthy socialites. Do you think maybe you are not happy in Japan because you are used to a different lifestyle?

I know when i went back to Australia I missed the lifestyle i had in Japan with a much higher disposable income and busier social life.

Thanks...you're right, I do miss my lifestyle hugely!

On another note...as you have only experienced Tokyo then I don't think you can accuratley post about anti-foreign behaviour in Japan. As with most countries around the world, I believe the larger cities are far less anti-foreign, supplying tourist attractions, multi-lingual staff/residents, international restaurants and shops etc. Also, every time I've decided to spend a day walking around Tokyo, I've been mistaken for an American tourist (hehehe) being asked many questions about my vacation etc etc...and yes, I have played along because I think, in general, people are much more accepting and kind to tourists than temporary or long term foreign residents, lots of which don't want to fully integrate into Japanese way of life. Because tourists are only here for a short stay, they are easily forgiven for not understanding or accepting the Japanese culture.....

[waller]

What other parts of Japan have you lived in KK and how would you say they compare to Tokyo in terms of attitudes to foreigners?

[kuro_kitty]

What other parts of Japan have you lived in KK and how would you say they compare to Tokyo in terms of attitudes to foreigners?

Well I'm certainly no expert, can only account for a few small experiences....

I've lived in Nagano for less than 5 months when I was a student and I have also lived in a country area in Kanto region. Nagano's general population was extremely friendly and accommodating, even though they knew I was a student, not a tourist....

but....

The country area in Kanto was the worst, as you may read from other posts I've made, spitting, sighing and sucking air through their teeth when they walk past me, calling me and my b/f buta, just general unfriendly attitudes compared to other places I've experienced.

[Masuosan]

...........

[Tokyoite]

Kuro kitty,

DO NOT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY, but what are you doing to get mistaken for an American tourist? I walk around Tokyo every day, and have never been the object of such a misapprehension.

Things that would make ME think someone might be an American tourist:

- Wearing khaki shorts
- With hiking boots or sandals
- Wearing tapered stonewashed jeans
- Wearing a baseball cap
- With ponytail poking through the hole in the back if female
- Or backwards if male
- Being overweight
- Blatantly possessing a guidebook
- Wearing a bum bag (aka fanny pack)
- Talking English loudly
- Occupying a lot of space on the train (by resting ankle on knee, etc., if not overweight)

You get the idea. I assume that none of the above fits you, so I'm genuinely curious as to what you think it is about you that gives people the idea you're an AT.

[kuro_kitty]

Kuro kitty,

DO NOT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY, but what are you doing to get mistaken for an American tourist? I walk around Tokyo every day, and have never been the object of such a misapprehension.

Things that would make ME think someone might be an American tourist:

- Wearing khaki shorts
- With hiking boots or sandals
- Wearing tapered stonewashed jeans
- Wearing a baseball cap
- With ponytail poking through the hole in the back if female
- Or backwards if male
- Being overweight
- Blatantly possessing a guidebook
- Wearing a bum bag (aka fanny pack)
- Talking English loudly
- Occupying a lot of space on the train (by resting ankle on knee, etc., if not overweight)

You get the idea. I assume that none of the above fits you, so I'm genuinely curious as to what you think it is about you that gives people the idea you're an AT.

- Wearing khaki shorts - No way....only when I am hiking...which is no where near Tokyo city
- With hiking boots or sandals - Never! What if I'm wearing hiking shorts and stilettos?? Could I be mistaken for a Japanese tourist?
- Wearing tapered stonewashed jeans - Never! I don't even know what these are...probably something from the 80's generation??
- Wearing a baseball cap - What about a "Trucker Cap"?
- With ponytail poking through the hole in the back if female - No...but hey, it looks good when Anna Kournikova does it.
- Wearing a bum bag (aka fanny pack) - Yes I wear a bum bag, but it's one of those designer leather versions.....it's not an Adidas one....does that still count?
- Talking English loudly - yes, I do cos my b/f is bloody deaf...
- Occupying a lot of space on the train (by resting ankle on knee, etc., if not overweight)- No I usually hide in the corner and sleep

[kuro_kitty]

...........

what are you sighing about now? you kep following my posts around and sighing about them....just put me on your ignore list...put up or shut up

[Masuosan]

what are you sighing about now? you kep following my posts around and sighing about them....just put me on your ignore list...put up or shut up

Keep following your posts because they're everywhere, and occasionally, except for matters of Japanese attitudes toward foreignors, I think you have useful insights. Patently untrue about the sighing though -- first time I've ever done it.

Put up or shut up eh? I think you could call my "(sigh) .........." post one or the other. So lay off will ya?... I actually had posted something of content, a challenge to your inconsistent reasoning, but then I realized I was probably wasting my time as your mind's made up that you're right about everything. Well, and the fact that it's not a good idea to try and post something thoughtful at such a late hour -- never comes out right.

Doesn't take much -- just a few dots -- to get you riled up huh?

[kuro_kitty]

I aint "riled up"....just wanted to get you "riled up"...post again, I want to know what you said...and no, I don't think I'm right about everything....I can admit if I think I'm wrong or not knowledgable enough about a topic...I'm always asking for advice....why?....because I don't know everything and certainly don't think I'm right about everything!

[Masuosan]

In a nutshell...

On the one hand, you told someone above they couldn't accurately post on anti-foreign sentiment in Japan because they'd only been around Tokyo. On the other hand, you said you've spent all your time in these other Asian countries with "rich...social butterflies" yet you can make accurate generalizations about those countries' attitudes?

On the one hand, you say Japanese aren't as bad if you're only a short-term guest. On the other hand, have you been a long-term guest in all (seven is it?) these other Asian countries?

On the one hand, you say you prefer the up-front "bubbly" anti-foreignness in other Asian countries to Japan's more discreet kind. On the other hand, spitting and hissing at you isn't up-front enough?

Blah blah blah

And what's the point of even trying to declare a "most anti-foreign" Asian country? Is there some standardized interculteral criteria they should all meet despite their distinguishing features and circumstances? Seems sophomoric... BTW, don't confuse me with an apologist here. I have my own views on Japanese insularity and deal with it accordingly, but I do know from personal experience that they ain't as bad as certain others by any measure.

And, so as not to be as two-faced as you accuse the Japanese of being, surely you've confronted them with this idea you have. I'd be interested in hearing what they've said when given a chance to explain themselves (not counting this board).

[kurogane]

"the most anti-foreign" Asian country?

is called Vancouver. After all, they are there legally, at the invite of our government (and thus, by extension, Us), and even though a lot of the newer import models can't drive to save their licence, and have no understanding of basic Canadian cell phone manners, in the end, we invited them, we only went there from elsewhere, too (Natives aside, natch), and now we give them schtick as though they showed up illegally on a boat with a leaky scuttlemathingajig and want full welfare support.
Makes one ashamed to be a native, almost. But ya can't beat that view.

AM I ranting again?
So Sorry

[Masuosan]

a lot of the newer import models can't drive to save their licence

Pet theory about that: They can't see over the steering wheel.

On the upside, good dim sum in Vancouver.

[kurogane]

Pet theory about that: They can't see over the steering wheel.
On the upside, good dim sum in Vancouver.

Well, that and the fact that they are looking every which way but STRAIGHT AF'IN HEAD.

As for Dim Sum, Yum Yum, Dim Sum. There actually is a place called that too. Can't say they don't have a sense of self-referential irony.
Anyways, somebody said "Hongcoover" the other day, and it got under my skin. End of rant.

[kuro_kitty]

In a nutshell...

On the one hand, you told someone above they couldn't accurately post on anti-foreign sentiment in Japan because they'd only been around Tokyo. On the other hand, you said you've spent all your time in these other Asian countries with "rich...social butterflies" yet you can make accurate generalizations about those countries' attitudes?

On the one hand, you say Japanese aren't as bad if you're only a short-term guest. On the other hand, have you been a long-term guest in all (seven is it?) these other Asian countries?

On the one hand, you say you prefer the up-front "bubbly" anti-foreignness in other Asian countries to Japan's more discreet kind. On the other hand, spitting and hissing at you isn't up-front enough?

Blah blah blah

And what's the point of even trying to declare a "most anti-foreign" Asian country? Is there some standardized interculteral criteria they should all meet despite their distinguishing features and circumstances? Seems sophomoric... BTW, don't confuse me with an apologist here. I have my own views on Japanese insularity and deal with it accordingly, but I do know from personal experience that they ain't as bad as certain others by any measure.

And, so as not to be as two-faced as you accuse the Japanese of being, surely you've confronted them with this idea you have. I'd be interested in hearing what they've said when given a chance to explain themselves (not counting this board).

Feel better? I do too, cos I'm not going to get into a debate about my post history....I feel a little flattered that someone is reading them.....I have asked my friends why some people act the way they do, for example, spitting, sighing etc and , as I said before, they do so in a reaction to the frustration they hold about the general opionion that most foreigners do not and cannot understand the Japanese culture, societal rules etc. I haven't confronted the people that have spat or whatever....in fact, they scare me, so i don't want to put myself into that kind of real life situation....and I am not fluent enough in the language to question someone on their behaviour

[ananda]

Well, that and the fact that they are looking every which way but STRAIGHT AF'IN HEAD.

As for Dim Sum, Yum Yum, Dim Sum. There actually is a place called that too. Can't say they don't have a sense of self-referential irony.
Anyways, somebody said "Hongcoover" the other day, and it got under my skin. End of rant.

hey kuro, have you ever heard this one:

"where are you from?"
"vancouver!"
"hamburger!" ha ha ha!!

this has happened to me many times....the locals love this joke, but honestly i dont get it....

i have heard it many times.

what am i missing?

dont you miss "vancouver chinese food"?....the pink pearl...yummy!

[Masuosan]

kg,
And down in Portland Chinatown there's a Hung Far Low restaurant. On any given day some guy's posing for his pic in front of the sign.

[Masuosan]

kk,
Actually I didn't post that to get anything personal off my chest, to debate you on your posts (they're there in full view), or to flatter you by having read the whole thread. I genuinely wanted to know, what gives? But with no answer or explanation forthwith, can't say I feel any better about the half-baked slag Japan is getting here. As I said, wasting my time... :P

[kuro_kitty]

why do you keep asking me for personal experiences and examples to back up what I am saying about some of the people that have treated me badly or whatever.... I've given enough information, I hav no need to lie or make sh@t up about stuff that's happened to me...Do you want me to go and scrape the spit gollies off the road everytime someone spits when I walk past, take a photo of the nazi symbol that was spray painted in our apartment complex......? If you like following my posts so much then take the time to see some of the good stuff I've said about Japan too...this thread was relevant for me to complain about some of the bad stuff that's happened to me...instead of focusing on the negative all the time...look around a bit and you'll see that I'm not here just to be negative.

[Masuosan]

Somehow we're not getting each other here, so let me back up. I don't think you're all negative, nor do I think that you have any reason to lie about your experiences. I don't care either way. And I don't follow only YOUR posts. I read them all. Yours stuck out as one that declared Japan to be the most anti-foreign country in Asia based on a fairly limited experience, it seems, and double standards, which I pointed out above. I don't need any additional personal experiences brought into play. What I was asking for was for you to explain why you say different things at different times based on the same experiences. If I saw others do it so ignorantly yet defiantly, I'd ask them about it to. I say (lots of) stupid stuff. A joke's a joke. But, I repeat, you called Japan the most anti-foreign country in Asia, not apparently jokingly but rather like you think you actually KNOW something, and when anyone tried to call you on it, you put them down with yet more unfounded generalizations. I don't need or want to know more about you. I wanted you to explain the inconsistencies in your statements. I mean, what do you want from these people? For them to be more like Koreans or Thais?

I realize this site is a good place to vent. So be it. I vent too. When I thought about that, I deleted my post, thinking it would be of no use to anyone. I was prepared to let you vent, however unfairly, and mind my own business. Hold my peace. Hence the "(sigh) .........." thing. But YOU TOLD ME TO POST AGAIN, SO I DID, and then you ducked it. Careful what you wish for I guess... But don't jump down my throat about it now.

Think whatever you want to think about Japan and other countries. I don't care. Maybe Japan IS the most anti-foreign country in Asia, but I don't know that and you don't either. Just know that what you've said here doesn't hold water. If it did, I imagine you would have something more substantial to post in response to what I said than offering to take pictures of spit. Geez...

[kurogane]

hey kuro, have you ever heard this one:
"where are you from?"
"vancouver!"
"hamburger!" ha ha ha!!
this has happened to me many times....the locals love this joke, but honestly i dont get it....
i have heard it many times.
what am i missing?
dont you miss "vancouver chinese food"?....the pink pearl...yummy!

Ummm, "hamburger". Any Real Vangrooverite knows that, like, beef is, like, totally bad for you, doood. I don't get it either, and I'm born and bread. As for the locals that love that joke, remember that a lot of the locals are Ontariods that try to pass. Not that we mind them there, simply that you either are or are not from somewhere. Move in late, and you don't get the Native Card. Of ocurse, some of my school frineds have real Native Cards (no sales tax! Nice), but I digress.
As for "Vancouver Chinese food", what we know as Real Chinese Food, YESSSSSSSSSSSSS. Thanks for reminding me. Sometimes I hate you. But fear not, I love to do it. ;)
Pink Pearl. Yum. Vong's? Yummmer.

[strobie]

kg,
And down in Portland Chinatown there's a Hung Far Low restaurant. On any given day some guy's posing for his pic in front of the sign.

...and then there's PHO BICH NGA in Vancouver which is popular with picture taking tourists and locals alike too!

[lostintranslation]

Come on Kitty. When I said I hadn't experienced rasicm in my 2.5 years in Tokyo, you said it didn't count because Tokyo is a big city and used to foreigners. I still think with the length of time I lived there if there was so much rasicm wouldn't I have experienced it. I rented an apartment from a non-English speaking Japanese real estate agent. I went out to bars with few if no foreigners there (no Irish pubs or Roppongi for me). My neighbours were all Japanese etc etc

I'm not saying that rasism does not occur in Japan. Sure it does, just like I got called wog every day of my high school life living in Australia. Just like my sisters ex bf who happened to be half aboriginal got his head kicked in by a bunch of rascist thugs, ended up brain damaged in a coma, and then died a few months later. He was 23. But would i use these at times horrific examples to condemn Australia as so rascist that I should warn people about living there.

I don't think so and the same goes for Japan.

[sofy]

Defenitly like most ppl said,
Learn jpn sopken/written as most as you can.
Learn about tht culture Do's and dont's.
Don't listen everythin to what ppl says, you take sum and u leave sum.
Wear shoes that are comfotable and that you can take off easily.


and before you leave to go back home,
pack you suitcase with gyoza !

[kanchouking]

I am planning on coming back as a student now because I enjoyed it so much. I was mainly in kyushu and okinawa though, so i didn't have much time in Tokyo except tourism. Maybe that was the difference.

As for the Nazi symbol...maybe it was just a Bukkyou priest trying to find a new sanctuary? i see those all the time at their lil jinja's. Think it means peace or somethin...

To sum it up...yeh, nothing was perfect, but from my memories I have and all the struggles I went through, I got through it and I'm better prepared for next time. I was actually quite sad upon coming back. Spending all my money on melonpan and takoyaki. Or puking after an eating competition between me and a korean man at a tabehodai yakiniku joint. Going 1.5 hours the wrong way on a train and then realizing it once you exited the station and having to pay another 1800 yen to get back in time to go to sleep on dayoff. Yeh it was great times. And you can't exactly nanpa here like you can there. It takes alchohol and weeks of work. I'll kiss the kansai airport floor when I go back. Or the JAL stewardesses, either works.

[Xephon]

Hey, sorry it's been awhile since I last mentioned about the college stuff. I had to change jobs rather suddenly about two weeks after I last posted here and it's been crazy since then. Went from caregiver to phase shifter assembler and a 7am - 4pm shift. So I had to put off my college temporarily ::sob:: but now things are getting back on track. I met a person at my work who knows a person that works at a school who takes kids on a yearly trip to Japan. If I can I'm going to see if he'll let me tag along (paying my own way of course) so I can get a glimpse of what I'll be dealing with in the near future. I'm also going to get ahold of another teacher who actually teaches Japanese (found her on the net!!) at a nearby highschool. I'm still teaching myself Japanese with the Pimsleur method and I'm getting the mouth forms down for speaking intelligibly lol. Before I can get back to where I left off I have to get my boss to put me on a swing shift so I can do school in the am, work in the pm.

Ok, time for bed! I'll post again once I get my stuff straightened out :).

P.S.

Sofy, what's gyoza?

[gixxstar]

Hi All,

If I knew what my/our life would be like in Japan, I would not have come.
I can't wait to go home.

That being said, I am here for around 2 years so I better make the best of it. I will keep plugging away. The first hard part is looking for a job and then waiting for the money to come in.

I have hard time keeping happy, everyone here as a dead look on their faces, the city is just as ugly as the stone faces on the subway.

If you come to Japan, be ready.

Gixx.

[sofy]

P.S.

Sofy, what's gyoza?[/QUOTE]



http://www.japan-guide.com/r/e107.html

[Timmy!!]

Pet theory about that: They can't see over the steering wheel.

On the upside, good dim sum in Vancouver.


Hey ya, I was wondering if you can get Dim Sum in Tokyo? Any chance you know where?

Dim Sum- 'once you pop, you just can't stop' :), kind of like crack, but in a good way.

[Timmy!!]

Defenitly like most ppl said,
Learn jpn sopken/written as most as you can.
Learn about tht culture Do's and dont's.
Don't listen everythin to what ppl says, you take sum and u leave sum.
Wear shoes that are comfotable and that you can take off easily.


and before you leave to go back home,
pack you suitcase with gyoza !

Hi ya Sofy, any chance you could educate a rookie about some of the 'Dos' and 'Don't'???

Thanks

[waller]

Defenitly like most ppl said,
Learn jpn sopken/written as most as you can.
Learn about tht culture Do's and dont's.
Don't listen everythin to what ppl says, you take sum and u leave sum.
Wear shoes that are comfotable and that you can take off easily.


and before you leave to go back home,
pack you suitcase with gyoza !

Have to disagree with you there Soph. That dish is Chinese, not Japanese and I have had some awesome Chinese food back home (NZ) - it's cheap and really good! Here I keep looking for it but so far it has been bloody awful. Gloopy servings of cornflour laced murdered vegetables. But I am in a pretty small city so maybe just not the best example.

[aha yes]

That dish is Chinese, not Japanese and I have had some awesome Chinese food back home (NZ) - it's cheap and really good! Here I keep looking for it but so far it has been bloody awful. Gloopy servings of cornflour laced murdered vegetables. But I am in a pretty small city so maybe just not the best example.
waller,
Next time you're passing through Tokyo, stop by Yokohama and I'll run you by Chinatown for a treat.

[waller]

OK! I shouldn't judge just by what we have on offer here I know.

[2paclives]

I`m gonna back up Kuro Kitty on most of her points. If I`d known that I`d spend time in inaka (countryside) hearing the nasty little folks there bitching about me as if I am some kind of animal that can`t understand jack, I would have gone to somewhere like the Philipines to work. Or if I`d known that I`d hear myself being called `kuronbo` (Japanese equivalent of n....ga) so openly and contemptuously by old men, I wouldn`t have lived in inaka. I didn`t know about the open spitting, either. The day I leave Japan I`m going to spit at all the racist motherf who did it to me - and I`ll do it full on in their nasty, laughing rat like faces.

Yeah, I know, less paper to be made in the Philipinnes but warm, good-hearted folks. After a while in Japan it jerks you around so much that you want to scream in the face of the people running their mouths here - Go shove your disses up your motherf ketsu! I knew as a black man I`d get a lot of stares but I didnt realise just how long it would go on and on and never stop and be accompanied by laughter and disses. Even after I helped out at all the neighborhood events, did the cleaning, paid the neighborhood block fee, etc.

I want to be treated as a human being - not an animal. I don`t do any stereotypical urban black things that the brothas back home do. I don`t wear baggy jeans, sagging off the waist. I don`t stare at folks. It`s aint just because I`m black. Ive got a white female friend who lives in inaka but not close to me. She says the same things with a few differences here and there. She says how long can we bit our tongues and never lash out, never diss back?

Same old Jp bullsht - she did all the right things but her neighbors after 4 years refuse to use her name (cept when they want her money or want something from her). She`s always `that gaijin`. That`s a way of not dealing with her as a human being - she`s outside, but they want her and my money. That`s the only time they stop their childish and nasty sht.

I swear the day I leave Jp for good I will slap these nasty motherf in their faces. If this was in Cali I`d pay a brother to scare the sht out of them. This is what Japan can do to you.

[jonnyrobinson]

I sympathize to some extent. Although i don't live in an inaka area and i am married to a J-woman, i get really pissed by the name thing. Even people who know me well still refer to me as that 'gaijin', or if i am really lucky 'gaijinsan'. Shite, they know I am Jonny Robinson, told 'em often enough, and still they won't use it. Except when, as 2pac said, they want summink from me, like money or free English. Screw 'em. This country　is a fading power anyway, and within 20 years there won't be any reason to come here, for love or money.

Plan to head back home next spring, J-wife ready-or-not! And when I board that plane for the last time (believe me, I will never come back here for a trip) I will say a few well-chosen epithets at all those Japanese tossers who have made me dislike their crummy country!

BANZAI THAT, YA BASTADS!

[person]

Kuro kitty,

DO NOT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY, but what are you doing to get mistaken for an American tourist? I walk around Tokyo every day, and have never been the object of such a misapprehension.

Things that would make ME think someone might be an American tourist:

- Wearing a baseball cap
- With ponytail poking through the hole in the back if female

You get the idea. I assume that none of the above fits you, so I'm genuinely curious as to what you think it is about you that gives people the idea you're an AT.

Read this earlier, but decided to wait to respond until I conducted an...experiment of sorts. I didn't realize someone can guess my passport based on the way I wear my cap (who knew). So, today, when I went running, I decided to try and wear my b-ball cap another way...any other way. After all, I pass a mosque on my route so...(not hyper vigilence/paranoia...simply just being aware, not wanting to draw attention to myself, being careful, etc.). [Please no one turn this post into a religious discussion.]

Short of looking like I have some head malformation, there really is no other place for a ponytail to go, but...through the little hole. So my question is this -- women who have long(ish) hair...wear it in a ponytail....while wearing a b-ball cap...and come from, let's say, Canada, what do they do? Since it may have something to do with the continent from which we come, let me then ask about Australian or British women.

I'm just curious. Just never knew it was an "American" thing.

Perhaps this strikes a chord with me because the other day I was in the Faculty Room at one of the unis at which I teach. I was laughing (internally) as I pretended to busy myself as I listened to both Japanese and "other" foreign teachers go on and on (and on and on) about the things Americans do (as if there wasn't at least one in the room). It was amazing to hear the sweeping generalizations being thrown around.

Now, please understand, I'm guessing (though I have no real idea) that assessing someone's nationality based on the way they wear their cap was not meant to be offensive (and, quite frankly, this is mostly meant in jest...just in case you missed that). However, I thought it tied in well with my experience just a few days before. I laughed as I kept hearing about "the Americans". Hello, people; Americans come in all varieties. I imagine we share some commonalities. However, my guess is you could find French people, Afghan people, African people, Cuban people (you get the idea) with whom I have just as much - if not more - in common.

So, after all that, my question still stands --

WHERE DOES THE PONYTAIL GO IF NOT THROUGH THE LITTLE HOLE???????

Inquiring minds want to know.

[eku]

I am not american............ and my ponytail goes thru the lil hole.... there isn't any other way to do it.... unless you gonna play little dutch girl and wrap your braids around your head ka nya?

[gixxstar]

Hi All,

The other night I was at a friends house for BBQ, beer and cards. My buddy is from Toronto Canada and me from Van. The night was going well, nothing too crazy, then we started to play cards. I don't play cards and have never played cards in Japan, after we got going me and my buddy started to win some games. I kept hearing this word that sounded like BUKA GAIJIN, I thought to myself that I must being hearing some new words that sounded kind of the same.
So I did'nt say anything.

My buddy then said "man they are getting pissed because the gaijin are winning" He then say's "that's why they keep calling us DUMB GAIJIN!!!!

I could not believe this, this was his girlfriend and her friends!

It show's you that as soon as you pee in their pool, the gloves are off and they have no problem pulling the race card!

My reply to that was, that I would never pull that but they did'nt care they knew we understood.

This was my first spoken racial slur, it was dissapointing...

Gixx

[eku]

gixx...wait till you beat them at mahjong jejejejejejejeje
its gets REALLY ugly then

I think it hurts more too cuz I am a girl teehee

[person]

Hi All,

The other night I was at a friends house for BBQ, beer and cards. My buddy is from Toronto Canada and me from Van. The night was going well, nothing too crazy, then we started to play cards. I don't play cards and have never played cards in Japan, after we got going me and my buddy started to win some games. I kept hearing this word that sounded like BUKA GAIJIN, I thought to myself that I must being hearing some new words that sounded kind of the same.
So I did'nt say anything.

My buddy then said "man they are getting pissed because the gaijin are winning" He then say's "that's why they keep calling us DUMB GAIJIN!!!!

I could not believe this, this was his girlfriend and her friends!

It show's you that as soon as you pee in their pool, the gloves are off and they have no problem pulling the race card!

My reply to that was, that I would never pull that but they did'nt care they knew we understood.

This was my first spoken racial slur, it was dissapointing...

Gixx


Baka gaijin? I've never heard "buka", but I've used "baka" on several occasions! ;)

Yes, that IS disappointing...especially with people you know and who are supposed to be someone's friend.

I've been told that - at least for some...in normal contexts, that is - the use of "gajin" ITSELF is not always meant to be rude (some foreigners get mad at just that). Of course, when you couple it with "baka"...it is.

Who knew people could get so angry about cards :(

[gixxstar]

Baka gaijin? I've never heard "buka", but I've used "baka" on several occasions! ;)

Yes, that IS disappointing...especially with people you know and who are supposed to be someone's friend.

I've been told that - at least for some...in normal contexts, that is - the use of "gajin" ITSELF is not always meant to be rude (some foreigners get mad at just that). Of course, when you couple it with "baka"...it is.

Who knew people could get so angry about cards :(

Yes "baka" ooops...

To me that would be like having them over to my place in vancouver and calling them stupid japanese!

Ah well, the funny thing is that they have all this contempt for us and then pay ___ loads of money to learn English from us ;)

Gixx

[Tokyoite]

Just to clarify,

- Wearing a baseball cap
- With ponytail poking through the hole in the back if female

was supposed to convey that you will not have a ponytail poking through the hole in the back of your baseball cap if you are not female, i.e., if you are male. Obviously, my unspoken cultural assumption here was that females have long hair and males don't. How appallingly American of me :)

While we're on the topic of how to recognize an American at fifty paces, I now realize that my images of Canadian tourists and American tourists are completely conflated. If I saw a backpack with a maple leaf flag on it, I would probably think it belonged to an American who was trying to keep a low profile. So, is there any sure way to pick Canadians out of the undifferentiated mass of gaijinsans?

[kurogane]

. So, is there any sure way to pick Canadians out of the undifferentiated mass of gaijinsans?

There certainly is. We are much better looking than any other people EVER, speak English in both a grammatically correct ('MERKANS TAKE NOTICE!) and comprehensible manner (ANZACS AND ENGLANDERS, wake up and learn to enunciate!), and are just generally nice, humble, unassuming wonderfully mellow folk who accept all peoples on their own merits.
I hope that helps.

[kurogane]

Yes "baka" ooops...
To me that would be like having them over to my place in vancouver and calling them stupid japanese!
Ah well, the funny thing is that they have all this contempt for us and then pay ___ loads of money to learn English from us ;)
Gixx

If you ever want to impress upon them what a bunch of rude midgets they are being, try saying:
"Baka saru to yondara, do iu ki wo suruka" (How would you feel if I called you a stupid monkey?)

Gixxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Are things getting better? Remember man, you are still new here. When you get the lay of the land, you'll probably get to like it. I hope!!!!
Chin Up, Bikey Boy.
:)

[person]

There certainly is. We are much better looking than any other people EVER, speak English in both a grammatically correct ('MERKANS TAKE NOTICE!) and comprehensible manner (ANZACS AND ENGLANDERS, wake up and learn to enunciate!), and are just generally nice, humble, unassuming wonderfully mellow folk who accept all peoples on their own merits.
I hope that helps.

Don't forget delusional. Yes, yes -- I think you left that out.

[kurogane]

Don't forget delusional. Yes, yes -- I think you left that out.

Like I said, we don't like to toot our own horns.
Mind you, there was this very very flexible guy I knew in high school.................sorry, wrong thread
:p

[person]

Like I said, we don't like to toot our own horns.
Mind you, there was this very very flexible guy I knew in high school.................sorry, wrong thread
:p


You are so disturbed...it's almost funny..........almost ;)

Kidding...I found that very amusing (though it did take me 2 reads)

It's clear why you get on so well with the 19 years olds ;)

[kurogane]

You are so disturbed...it's almost funny..........almost ;)

Kidding...I found that very amusing (though it did take me 2 reads)

It's clear why you get on so well with the 19 years olds ;)

Thanks for that. Glad you enjoyed it. As for the 19 year olds, yes. Its weird, but some of them just can't get enough of me. I think its because as silly as I am (and we know I am that), I treat them as though they might have something to say, and of course, the fact that I pay for fancy dinners.

I am thinking of graduating up a half age grade, though. Met a stunning 25 year old the other day. She is interested, but only if it is Serious (i.e. Marriage Bound). Maybe I should change my handle to Seinferudo?
Anyways, I'm gone. Night.

[person]

Thanks for that. Glad you enjoyed it. As for the 19 year olds, yes. Its weird, but some of them just can't get enough of me. I think its because as silly as I am (and we know I am that), I treat them as though they might have something to say, and of course, the fact that I pay for fancy dinners.

I am thinking of graduating up a half age grade, though. Met a stunning 25 year old the other day. She is interested, but only if it is Serious (i.e. Marriage Bound). Maybe I should change my handle to Seinferudo?
Anyways, I'm gone. Night.


Just met...and already talking about marriage? What happened to...getting to know one another? I work in a different realm I guess...and perhaps that's why I'm still single (but happy!!!!!!)

Good luck...and be careful. Women can be very...persuasive.

[kurogane]

Just met...and already talking about marriage? What happened to...getting to know one another? I work in a different realm I guess...and perhaps that's why I'm still single (but happy!!!!!!)

Good luck...and be careful. Women can be very...persuasive.

Nah, nah. The condition was that she didn't want to go out just for Fun, Free Dinners, and Fumblajunga. I am not getting any pushy vibes. Simply that as a Christmas Cake (over the hill at 25; sheesh!), she feels she needs to think that a relationship is potentially going somehwere. I can dig that part.
Other than that, as you said, got to get to know each other first. I don't find the Statement of Conditions all that strange. I wouldn't do it at home, but They seem to do it quite a bit.
I'll keep you posted. Probably not in sordid detail this time.
:p

[person]

Nah, nah. The condition was that she didn't want to go out just for Fun, Free Dinners, and Fumblajunga. I am not getting any pushy vibes. Simply that as a Christmas Cake (over the hill at 25; sheesh!), she feels she needs to think that a relationship is potentially going somehwere. I can dig that part.
Other than that, as you said, got to get to know each other first. I don't find the Statement of Conditions all that strange. I wouldn't do it at home, but They seem to do it quite a bit.
I'll keep you posted. Probably not in sordid detail this time.
:p

I used to have a...Statement of Conditions. Then I realized I didn't know what the hell I was talking about (and probably still don't). I used to focus on...where is this going (if anywhere). Now, I let things take their course. It doesn't make Mother happy, but then, that's just an added benefit.

Enjoy the cake --

And, while details are fun, perhaps another venue for that ;)

Oyasumi

[kurogane]

I used to have a...Statement of Conditions. Then I realized I didn't know what the hell I was talking about (and probably still don't). I used to focus on...where is this going (if anywhere). Now, I let things take their course. It doesn't make Mother happy, but then, that's just an added benefit.

Enjoy the cake --

And, while details are fun, perhaps another venue for that ;)

Oyasumi

Hee Hee. I loved that line about Mother. Might have to steal it someday. I am all for letting things take their course, but if I want one of Them, I have make sure that course is one they want to be on together.
Anyhoo,
Oyasumi nasai, hito.