For the masters

[bluecactii]

I was reading an applied linguistics forum on another site the other day and there was a heated discussion over distance degrees. It was especially concerned with those of Australia. There are some seemingly respectable MA programs that allow you to finish the degree in just a year. Meanwhile many of the degrees are distance and can be done semi-full time while working full time. Some felt this was unacceptable.

I was wondering if any of you who have spent multiple years earning your masters, feel that this is just a shortcut and resent the that Oz is giving out in one year what others have spent years trying to get. Do you think the 2 (one year and multiyear masters degrees) can be of equal value?

Also to any employers out there: would this reflect negatively on the applicant?

[Masuosan]

Don't resent time or distance factors at all if the program's legit... And the legitimacy of a program has nothing to do with time or distance but is strictly defined as accreditation by whatever governing body is involved.

Sorry I can't help you with Oz, but in the US, most in-residence MA:TESOL uni programs require 2 yrs. full-time study, more likely 2-1/2 yrs. to finish a thesis. In the UK, you can do it in a yr. with a dissertation half as long. Some programs in either country don't even require a thesis but a test in lieu of. In any case, including distance degrees, the end result is that graduates all have the same qualification for job search purposes... (I think, but I'm not an employer.)

Keep in mind though, that the longer you spend in any program, taking courses in a variety of areas and using the resources available to you at the time, the more you'll know as a teacher, the more versatile and capable you'll be in the field. And an in-residence program should help create the community-based connections you need to get started on the right foot.

But time is money, so if you're going to take your sweet time about it, be prepared for two costs: (1) tuition and fees at ungodly rates for the graduate level, so for every extra hr. you stay there, be prepared to pay out of your pocket, through loans, or through some kind of assistantship, and (2) the opportunity cost of not making much/any money as a teacher while you're studying.

How you choose to do it time- and distance-wise probably depends on what's convenient and practical for you personally.

[paulh]

I am currently doing a distance degree with a British university while working full time in Japan. Even though i am paying through the nose for international student fees its a pittance compared to what i would pay if I studied full time on the campus. I would also have to give up my job here, fly to England, pay hostel fees. i also have a family as well and taking off for two years to study is just impossible with a family to feed.

Universities etc in Japan dont worry about how long you take, my degree takes 6 years to complete all up and they only look at the institution you get it from, not whether its by distance or done at the actual campus. Students at the home campus can spend all day studying but people with full time jobs and bills to pay dont have it so easy and it takes longer to complete.

[SoulShine]

I've been sort of wondering about this too. I'm interested in getting a Master's degree at some point, perhaps in a few years. PaulH, I read your little bit on that homepage, and you made it sound like you took the TESL Masters over several years. How many years did you take to do it? I'm in a bit of a similar situation that you were in when you first came to Japan, and I'm looking forward to eventually getting away from the eikaiwa/business teaching industry and getting into something a little more substantial.

[paulh]

I've been sort of wondering about this too. I'm interested in getting a Master's degree at some point, perhaps in a few years. PaulH, I read your little bit on that homepage, and you made it sound like you took the TESL Masters over several years. How many years did you take to do it? I'm in a bit of a similar situation that you were in when you first came to Japan, and I'm looking forward to eventually getting away from the eikaiwa/business teaching industry and getting into something a little more substantial.

The Masters took 3.5 years part time but the average is 2.5 years. Columbia in Tokyo takes 3 summers to complete the coursework. It all depends on what your wallet can bear. 2 courses at once is what most people can bear as there is a lot of reading and course work as well as a full time job. It will make your wallet 400,000 yen lighter too doing 2 12-week courses.

[SoulShine]

Thank you, this is the kind of information I'm looking for. I've been reading some of your other threads on the subject of Masters, and there is a lot of good information for me to read. It's not something I'm looking to do for a couple of years, once I finally get myself truly established in Japan, but it is definately a long-term goal.

[aprilmo]

I don't think time is an issue. My college roommate got his masters in microbiology in just a year. He didn't have to do any less work than those who took two, three and four years to complete the same degree. He just busted his but straight through.

Distance is a completely separate issue, though. Whether it is justified or not, there is a stigma with distance degrees. Perhaps not so much in Japan, but that stigma is definitely alive in the US . My advice to anyone thinking about a distance degree is to get into a program where
1) both distance and on-campus classes are given --
2) a program that doesn't distinguish between the two modes of instruction on your transcript or degree.

[mr.nye]

Distance is a completely separate issue, though. Whether it is justified or not, there is a stigma with distance degrees. Perhaps not so much in Japan, but that stigma is definitely alive in the US . My advice to anyone thinking about a distance degree is to get into a program where
1) both distance and on-campus classes are given --
2) a program that doesn't distinguish between the two modes of instruction on your transcript or degree.

Glad to see you're still around, Aprilmo.
You put up some great posts before about current conditions for ESL teachers in the US. How's your TESOL degree coming along? still looking to get some seasoning overseas ;-)

I've also heard that distance degrees are not looked upon well in the US.
As you may remember, I was looking into MA TESOL programs by distance so that I can continue teaching upon my return from Japan. So, I've decided on the MSed TESOL from Shenandoah U. in Virginia. Really psyched to get started...

Interestingly, when I checked the FAQ on their site, it mentions that their is no mention of "distance" on the degree, and being that the school maintains Accreditation from the Southern Association of Colleges & Schools
(http://www.sacs.org/ ),
I am hoping that I won't run into any problems (of course, when they realize I was in Japan during the time that I was taking courses, they'll know, but hopefully they will see past it, as i will have been teaching English full time).

Well, good luck & keep on postin'

Nye

[Gordon]

I don't think time is an issue. My college roommate got his masters in microbiology in just a year. He didn't have to do any less work than those who took two, three and four years to complete the same degree. He just busted his but straight through.

Distance is a completely separate issue, though. Whether it is justified or not, there is a stigma with distance degrees. Perhaps not so much in Japan, but that stigma is definitely alive in the US . My advice to anyone thinking about a distance degree is to get into a program where
1) both distance and on-campus classes are given --
2) a program that doesn't distinguish between the two modes of instruction on your transcript or degree.

Most/all distance masters degrees in Oz do not state on the degree the mode that you studied. I am half done my distance masters from an Oz uni and happy with it. My degree will take 2 years p/t, if you can call 30 hours/week, 50 weeks/year part time.

[aprilmo]

Glad to see you're still around, Aprilmo.
You put up some great posts before about current conditions for ESL teachers in the US. How's your TESOL degree coming along? still looking to get some seasoning overseas ;-)

I've also heard that distance degrees are not looked upon well in the US.
As you may remember, I was looking into MA TESOL programs by distance so that I can continue teaching upon my return from Japan. So, I've decided on the MSed TESOL from Shenandoah U. in Virginia. Really psyched to get started...

Interestingly, when I checked the FAQ on their site, it mentions that their is no mention of "distance" on the degree, and being that the school maintains Accreditation from the Southern Association of Colleges & Schools
(http://www.sacs.org/ ),
I am hoping that I won't run into any problems (of course, when they realize I was in Japan during the time that I was taking courses, they'll know, but hopefully they will see past it, as i will have been teaching English full time).

Well, good luck & keep on postin'

Nye

mr.nye,
I live fairly close to Shenandoah university, and I've even take a few classes there. It's a top notch school, mostly music and education, so I'm sure you;ll get your monies' worth. By the way, I'll probably be going to Winchester within the next few months. Is there anything you need and/or want for me to check out while I'm there?

One of my professors is also part of the hiring committee for our school, and she said the number three factors they look at in hiring someone is:

1) Are they white? (Sorry, but being white counts against you.)
2) Are they male? (Men have the advantage because there are too many female professors.)
3) Experience? (International experience counts more than experience you gain by teaching at your local university or community college, so this should be a huge plus for you. The only downside is that they will only count half of your time if it's not in a university. For example, they will count two years at a private school in Japan as one year of academic experience. Some schools may not even count it that much. So, if you can, get yourself into a university setting, perhaps a language center connected to the university).

Your biggest hurdle, I think, won't have anything to do with how you got your degree. It will be simply finding full-time work... in convincing the hiring committee that out of 100 + applicants, you're the best man for the job.

You're American, right? If you want my advice, you should do this: Stay in Japan for as long as you want. Say a year, two years, whatever. Get your Master's degree at Shenandoah, but don't plan on teaching at the college level. Instead, after you're done with Japan and after you're done with your classes, come back and spend a year getting licensed to teach at the elementary or secondary level.

I know what you're thinking... but hear me out on this. There are many reasons why this is a good idea.

First, there is an emergency shortage of ESOL teachers at this level. Second, the salary range for licensed teachers is huge, about 15,000 per year more than you'll make at the college level. Third, teaching ESOL is NOTHING like teaching math or English or any other subject because foreign students in America are genreally fearful and respectful of authority.

I just started my practicum. I'm observing at an elementary school where the ESOL teacher teaches grades K - 4 all at once. After five weeks, I've totally abandoned my plans to teach at the college level. ESOL is simply a different world at elementary schools. Think about it. Investigate it. There are things you can do now, while you're working on your masters, to help along the process. Get your degree. Take the PRAXIS exams (there are two). If, when you come back to Ameica, you can't find work, get your license. It's a gravy train after that.

[mr.nye]

I just started my practicum. I'm observing at an elementary school where the ESOL teacher teaches grades K - 4 all at once. After five weeks, I've totally abandoned my plans to teach at the college level. ESOL is simply a different world at elementary schools. Think about it. Investigate it. There are things you can do now, while you're working on your masters, to help along the process. Get your degree. Take the PRAXIS exams (there are two). If, when you come back to Ameica, you can't find work, get your license. It's a gravy train after that.

Holy Smokes! you couldN'T be any more on the mark.
Alright, I'm gonna PM then.

[waller]

But time is money, so if you're going to take your sweet time about it, be prepared for two costs: (1) tuition and fees at ungodly rates for the graduate level, so for every extra hr. you stay there, be prepared to pay out of your pocket, through loans, or through some kind of assistantship, y.

In NZ a graduate degree costs almost exactly the same as an undergrad one. MIght be the same in Australia.


By the way, nice positive post, Aprilmo!

Paul, re your options. Have you considered starting your own little school in OZ or NZ?