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It is not a CRIME to visit Yasukuni Shrine !!!

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  • It is not a CRIME to visit Yasukuni Shrine !!!

    I demand that all Japanese pay respect to the war dead at Yasukuni for the brave souls who sacrificed their lives to kill in the name of the Holiness !

    It is time for Korea and China to soften their tone on how Japanese people choose to honor their war dead ! Many right wingers are hoping Koizumi continues to pay respects to this shrine !

    McTojo
    Last edited by mcalpine; 2005-04-09, 05:02 PM.

  • #2
    The term "War Criminals" were created by non-Japanese during Tokyo Judgement, one-sided judgement from winning country to a losing country. So even from such fact, there is no reason why Koizumi shouldn't visit Yasukuni.

    Even more so than that, Japanese culture treats all dead people as innocent, so the respectable visit to Yasukuni is no business to other countries. There were Takamori Saigo and others who were not forgiven to be in the Yasukuni, but that is merely a domestic mistake made in Japan, and that does not change the idea of forgiven ancestors.

    Even if Koizumi slows down on visits, Japanese citizens will never stop visiting Yasukuni

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    • #3
      I'm not really into politics but I don't see why he shouldn't go to satify the press. Maybe some people in the far east a bit softer than thouse in the west but I think I remember when ever rememberence day comes around, both countries participate.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Eric2006
        I'm not really into politics but I don't see why he shouldn't go to satify the press. Maybe some people in the far east a bit softer than thouse in the west but I think I remember when ever rememberence day comes around, both countries participate.

        It would be like German PM Schroeder going to visit a shrine in Berlin with Hermann Goering and Hitlers remains inside them, to pay his respects to German war heroes. Would do wonders for Franco-German relations.

        Are you trying to start a flame war here?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mcalpine
          I demand that all Japanese pay respect to the war dead at Yasukuni for the brave souls who sacrificed their lives to kill in the name of the Holiness !
          McTojo
          Since when did the Japanese Emperor become the Pope?

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          • #6
            Many Germans loved Hitler

            Originally posted by paulh
            It would be like German PM Schroeder going to visit a shrine in Berlin with Hermann Goering and Hitlers remains inside them, to pay his respects to German war heroes. Would do wonders for Franco-German relations.

            Are you trying to start a flame war here?
            Everybody has the right to pay respects to their fallen leaders no matter how evil or heinous they were. People still pay respect to Idi Amin , a man who was never tried in a court of law; a man who murdered close to a million Asians and Africans.

            What kind of message are we trying to send here ? Are we saying that if a criminal court deems a man a War Criminal or a Genocidal Murderer we can't honor that person as a countryman of our nationality if we agree with his actions ? Does the judges gavel have a rubber stamp at the end of it that says " This man is Bad forever, and if you pay homage to him and the ideals he stood for then you're a criminal too"? The point is is that Japan should honor its war dead and they should be honored at Yasukuni Jinjya which stands for "Peace" anyway.

            It's the Koreans and Chinese who wish to distort the legacy of the Japanese Empire. They are the ones who wish to deprive Japan of a respectable future by using fear & smear tactics to justify their bleeding hearts and to further ruin the moral foundations of the Japanese youth.

            We must rise and crush them !!!!!!!!!!!!

            McTojo !

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            • #7
              Nxx

              Originally posted by paulh
              It would be like German PM Schroeder going to visit a shrine in Berlin with Hermann Goering and Hitlers remains inside them, to pay his respects to German war heroes. Would do wonders for Franco-German relations.

              Are you trying to start a flame war here?
              Gots to disagree. Goering and Hitler were legitimate war criminals, whereas a lot of the charges against the Japanese leaders were trumped up hysteria based on guilt by association: Axis Power, therefore, Nazis.
              I am not saying they didn't do heinous things, but it was not a systematic project as with Za Germans.
              Moreover, their internment there is a minor blip on the scale of the amount of souls lost to their sad, tragic, doomed attempt to counter Anglo-American Imperial ambition, which itself was heavily intertwined with the racist ideologies of the time. It wasn't just that Japan represented a threat@to their power, which of course they did, but that those "uppity little yellow monkeys" would be so audacious as to try and counter their racist, fascist imperial projects.
              All Imperialists will burn in hell. I, Kurogane, proclaim it.

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              • #8
                'Imperialism' in one form or another has been around since man first started organizing into tribes and attacking others. It ain't gonna go away anytime soon....

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by paulh
                  It would be like German PM Schroeder going to visit a shrine in Berlin with Hermann Goering and Hitlers remains inside them, to pay his respects to German war heroes. Would do wonders for Franco-German relations.

                  Are you trying to start a flame war here?
                  Sure but Yasukuni Jinja doesn't have the remains of Tojo and the thousands of politions who organized the war in. Imagine your grand farther was conscripted into the army in WW2 and the Germans or some thing said why are you going to visit his grave, he was part of the bombing or thousands of civilians in Berlin.

                  The Chinese should except that all Japanese in WW2 were not evil and all Chinese, Americans British were not saints.
                  Last edited by Eric2006; 2005-04-09, 10:17 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kurogane
                    All Imperialists will burn in hell. I, Kurogane, proclaim it.
                    The Emperor has spoken. All Hail the Empero..... er, oh ____! The Flames! The FLAMES! Itai. Itai! ITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIII...!
                    Last edited by stillnosheep; 2005-04-10, 06:00 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Mr K is pretty much screwed either way. If he goes he gets bad press overseas. If he doesn't go he gets bad press in Japan. Faced with that kind of decision its no wonder he attends the ceremony.

                      The facts are that Japan's economic future lies in China so they need to move towards normalizing relations and putting out fires, not starting them. Many Japanese don't know of the terrible suffering of Chinese people at the hands of their armed forces. Many Chinese don't know of the terrible suffering at the hands of the Chinese armed forces from circa 1930 to 1945-50. Its all about coming clean, making your peace and moving on. Sadly asian culture seems to have a significant element of denial associated with its social structure. Thus its not surprising that nobody is willing to "revisit" the past.

                      War criminals was not "invented" by non japanese during the tokyo trials. War crimes are as old as warfare and drumhead trials have existed since before recorded history. Spandau prison in Germany had its fair share of "war criminals" and you don't hear germans complaining about it. They admit their mistake, paid their dues and now work to be a leader in the EU. Japan on the other hand seems to have embraced the USA and let its other asian relations fall by the wayside. They have made little effort to face up to their past mistakes beyond signing surrender papers in 1945.

                      and just so I don't come off sounding like a nihon-hater. I love Japan, and I think the people here are really quite charming, warm and kind. They want peace and seem to call for peace when August rolls around. Perhaps they should be making a better effort at peace during the other 11 months and with her neighbors who seem to still feel the sting of invasion 60 years ago.

                      China is now the #1 trading partner of Japan and it doesn't look good when 10,000 people decide to march in protest, boycott japanese goods and picket the embassy. Its a reflection on a poor job of international relations by the Japanese governent, not its people.

                      while not directly on target this link certainly goes to the heart of the problem. Germans accept responsibility and continue to observe their role and responsibility in it http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4430133.stm
                      Last edited by donpaulo; 2005-04-11, 12:06 AM.

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                      • #12
                        just a thought

                        how come the winning side never has war criminals.......

                        I feel neither this way nor that about Yasukuni shrine, every country has some memorial to someone who died in some war and if they want to honour them, its up to them. I would get worried if there was, say... a shrine to Hitler to someone specific ..

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                        • #13
                          My partner teaches at a university here. One of the courses discussed Nanking. There was utter ashonishment byt some of the students about this. They really had no idea. This is pretty shocking IMO, although I`ll gladly admit it is certainly not unique to Japan. However I do find it pretty frightening given the current situation with North Korea, China, and the role the US takes here.

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                          • #14
                            waller, your friend who taught the class, is he a foreigner ? What textbook did he use ? I am not surprised about the japanese student reaction. Most are taught that Japan suffered from the war. There is little to zero taught about japanese imperialism and the effects of this policy.

                            also eku the winning side does have war criminals... look at the US in Vietnam with Mi Lai village or at Abu Grave prison in Iraq. In both cases US army had trials. Granted it isn't the same but there are "war criminals" on both sides, especially when the winning side is democratic.

                            Also as a final thought, and on an opposite track to my former posting. Why are the Chinese trying to force Japanese domestic policy decisions ? Its not their business to decide about which japanese official goes to which shrine, or not.

                            I also thought the Japanese govt made a fair argument when saying that textbooks here have freedom of the press. But it was a poor decision to allow the publisher to choose a word which denies the truth of Nanking. The Germans fess up to their mistakes, why don't the Japanese ?

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                            • #15
                              I found this. A bit old but very interesting. I am just looking for a recent article I read last week on the same topic.

                              http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...?oneclick=true

                              Don Paulo, yes it is an international university but I am not sure of the nationality of the teacher.

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