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  • Bali bombing again.... WHAT THE...........

    Whats wrong that country man....

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16788455-2,00.html

  • #2
    Originally posted by blackjoe
    Were do you start? In the 1950's a military goverment took over with the support of the CIA and American multi-nationals. That came with the genocide of 2 million people, many intellcals that would stand up to the regime.

    The average wage is the same now as it was then. Also it has the worlds biggest Muslim population, that are all pissed off, poor and hungry. ANd they're stick and tired of making our Nike shoes.

    Yep, theres something wrong with that country alright. Its a timebomb waiting to go off, a spawning pool for fundermental terrorists and all on Australias doorstep.

    I feel Indonesia, both its own flaws and the crimes of the western fractions that support them should be taken more seriously. Before its too late.

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    • #3
      Population pressures are part of the problem as well. My guess is that Indonesia will only get worse, and more hostile towards Western countries, and non-Muslims in general.

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      • #4
        Australia better watch out when that happens. You're gonna have millions of Indonesians looking for 'lebensraum', and Australia is a tempting target seeing as it's so underpopulated.

        I'd like to ask a couple of serious questions to JT and other Aussie GP forum users: Do you think that Australia is going to become an increasingly 'Asian' country, in terms of ethnicity and cultural values? How do white Aussies feel about that prospect?
        Last edited by terrycooke; 2005-10-02, 05:17 PM.

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        • #5
          Terry,

          a fair enough question. Some white Australians feel that we have been too lax with our immigration policies, and to a certain degree they have a point.
          The Asian influence will undoubtedly grow, and this is inevitable.
          I forget the name of the academic who made the remark, but he talked of a growing Asian management class, who will not hesitate to promote their co-ethnics ahead of other Australians. He was flamed for this, but my experience living in Japan, and my travels throughout Asia indicate to me that he is correct.

          NZ is much the same in this regard as well.

          Part of our problem is our lack of understanding of our neighbours. They understand us better than we understand them, and they take advantage of this.

          White Australians are uneasy about the 'Asianification' of Australia, and don't really know what to do about it.

          My position is that immigration is fine, as long as we know how to manage the integration of newcomers into our society. The problem is that the country is mostly run by monocultural dinosaurs who don't understand how to do this, and are scared of being called racist.

          It's a tricky topic, but it's one that we have to come to terms with. To this date, we have not.

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          • #6
            Thats right JT. Our countries proudly say that we are "mixing pots" but have serious issues around it.

            There was a report in Britain that the UK is more segrigrateed than ever, especially when it comes to Muslim population. This was done in the wake of the London bombings where all the bombers were born Brits.

            While the report talks about the UK and Europe, I think it can be applied to Aus, NZ and North America as well.

            My feeling is both the right and left refuse to see the issue clearly. The right fear what they dont understand and basically dont give immergrants a change. However some of their fears are genuane and should be raise but they are shut up but the left in fear of being called "racist" The left sees the whole issue through rose tinted glasses and while immeration is both good for Australia and New Zealands economies, they refuse to see and adress teh problems that go hand in hand with it. I feel both parties completly miss the point.

            I am in favour of multi-culturalism and grew up with CHinese, Indian, Maori, whatever friends. I am currently friends with a few muslims and they are decent guys. They talk about Islam and while Im nowhere close to being a muslim, I do kinda understand where they are coming from. If people live in their own communities and dont talk about thier cultures, thats where I feel the anger and miscommunication comes in.

            The Indonesia/Asain problem isnt going to go away. Australia and New Zealand need to start looking at the pros and cons of the ineviatbale and figure out how to get it to work for everyone.

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            • #7
              JayJay,

              the problem is as you say, most born and bred Australasians don't understand the full implications of immigration. On the whole, it is probably a good thing, but we don't understand our immigrants well enough to manage their integration.
              Take the UK as you mention as an example. To have British born Muslims attack their country of birth in such a way is a big warning sign.
              Cities like Auckland and Sydney also have big problems with crime committed by Chinese for example, and the politicians in the respective countries have no idea what they are facing.

              I don't think NZ and OZ openly have such a policy, but I think at a 'tatemae' level, both countries are relatively keen to limit Muslim immigration, more so than curbing immigration from East Asia.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by terrycooke
                Australia better watch out when that happens. You're gonna have millions of Indonesians looking for 'lebensraum', and Australia is a tempting target seeing as it's so underpopulated.
                I'm not sure what you mean by 'lebensraum' (I know you're referring to Germany's expansion during WWII) but if you're suggesting they're going to invade us, I think that's pretty unlikely. If that's not what you mean then I've got the wrong idea but you do hear people talking from time to time about the possibility of Indonesia invading Australia.

                Terrorism definately. But a large scale invasion? Sounds like cold war paranoia fantasies to me. The yellow peril coming down from the north and all that. I just don't think it's going to happen.

                Logistically, Australia would be a nightmare to invade anyway. It's large, most of it's desert, there are so many isolated towns and communities that would be difficult for an invading force to suppress and manage. If they did invade, and that's highly unlikely, you'd be looking at a long guerilla war that just wouldn't be worth it.

                The indonesians might have man power but we'd sh!t on them with our airforce and navy. I just don't think they'd even get close enough to the coast to make a dent. And if they did manage to land in isolated spots up north then they'd have a major trek across some of the harshest desert in the world.

                If your talking about terrorism. Then yeah. That's a real threat. But it doesn't take an expert in foreign affairs to point that out. The media have been talking abou it ad nauseum sine 9/11.

                As for your questions about immigration and so on. I think it's something Australia has to do to survive. We have a falling birthrate just like Japan. Attitudes toward our relationship with Asia and Asian people have gone backward since the Howard government took over. Keating was really progressive when it came to our relationship to our northern neighbours but unfortunately we've gotten a little off track recently.

                I tend to think your average Australian person probably has issues about Asian people coming to live there. Especially when you get out of Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane and into the country but I think it's something they have to deal with like it or not.
                Last edited by Spaceghost; 2005-10-02, 07:47 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spaceghost
                  Logistically, Australia would be a nightmare to invade anyway. It's large, most of it's desert, there are so many isolated towns and communities that would be difficult for an invading force to suppress and manage. If they did invade, and that's highly unlikely, you'd be looking at a long guerilla war that just wouldn't be worth it.
                  Thats right. All this stuff about Japan wanting to invade Aus is bollocks. They knew exactly what you just said. The Japanese were streched out enough as it was and noone would have seriously considered invading Australia (mind you there is that "fuzzy logic" again).

                  Espeically invading from the North, you would have to get through the desert in the middle to get to the only part worth occupying, the east coast. The logistics would be a nightmare. Better off to invade across the Tasman from NZ .

                  I think this works two wasy for Australia though. 1) Australia is difficult to invade with a sizable force but 2) is very easy to slip into for a small group of people ie boat people or Lord forbid, terrorists.

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