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Like with Korea; Will the fog ever lift with China?

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  • Like with Korea; Will the fog ever lift with China?

    What do you think?

    Now that the import of culture is reciprocal the Koreans seem to be satisfied and are willing to bury the hatchet (too early to say???).
    Question is:::::::::::::::::::::::: Is China willing to Bury the Hatchet?

    The crimes were more atrocious against the Chinese
    The Chinese communist government has been brainwashing ever since Chairman Mao.
    Koizumi is a stubborn blockhead that continues to visit the shrine where some of the perps are "enshrined"
    China and Japan are locked in a race for recourses in the region (ie: Sakhalin Oil, etc) (China is winning)
    China is flexing its muscles.
    Japan is kissing Americas ass.
    China has the momentum
    Japan has the capitol (but too stingy to use it)

    So what do you think? Can this issue ever be cleaned up???

  • #2
    Sakhalin is nowhere near China. I think you have your geography mixed up.

    And China is nothing like Korea. They will ***** about everything because they can. With the biggest potential economy on the planet, everyone will have to suck up to them.

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    • #3
      yasukuni? No problem here

      The Chinese political class is on a rampage. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a head of goivernment going to honour the nation's fallen.

      It is time everybody stopped kissing Commie ass and stood up to those racist, nationalist, jingoistic, imperialist F'wits. They make Americans look like a peaceful nation of mellow Quakers.
      Kurogane hates China (not the people, of course, merely as a belligerent expansionist state)

      Comment


      • #4
        I disagree Kuro>>>

        I think China is right to insist that Koizumi 's visits to Yasukuni, where they have convicted political criminals enshrined that commited attrocious crimes agianst massive numbers of the Chinese Population, is an insult on the national/poliitical level. PERIOD.

        Sakhaline >>>

        Recently Russia has granted oil drilling contracts to some international oil company. Drilling will begin soon. This company has recently announced that all the oil drilled from Sakhalin will be sent to China. China has agreed to pay above market price for this contract.
        Japan was shut out of this close and valuable resource.

        Comment


        • #5
          Eat my Yasukuni, Mao Say Dung

          Originally posted by westsan
          I disagree Kuro>>>
          I think China is right to insist that Koizumi 's visits to Yasukuni, where they have convicted political criminals enshrined that commited attrocious crimes agianst massive numbers of the Chinese Population, is an insult on the national/poliitical level. PERIOD..
          I understand the whys and wherefores, I just think that the Chinese Government tends to make mountains out of molehills whenever they decide they have been wronged. Face issues aside, the vast majority of the souls enshrined there fought and died for their country in an honourable way, whether the war itself was right or not (naturally, the invasion of the Asian mainland was nothing more than aggressive imperialism, but no worse than any of the Western states doing the same in other places at the time).
          As for the Chinese government and their brainwashed supporters, Fack 'em. They are touchy, whiney, petty, and just plain annoying, manipulating jingoistic strategies to deflect attention from the legion of social rpoblems affecting the country, esp. the rural poor, who are getting both facked over and left behind.
          . Remember, I'm from Vancouver. I have a serious intuitive grasp of how good and how F'ed they can be, both as individuals, and as a People.
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm
          Fack the Chinese Government. They are all selfish greedy Pigs, just like in Animal Farm

          Not the Chinese People, of course. That, like any people, is a case by case thing.
          Habu a Naisu Dei

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kurogane
            As for the Chinese government and their brainwashed supporters, Fack 'em. They are touchy, whiney, petty, and just plain annoying, manipulating jingoistic strategies to deflect attention from the legion of social rpoblems affecting the country
            It is debatable about how "Brainwashed" they are when what they have been led to believe are facts. And facts that are not neccessarily one sided.

            Japans position was indefensible and remains so.
            Japan should be condemning the acts of these criminals.
            This would in turn pressure Yasukuni to extract these war criminals.

            Comment


            • #7
              So Sorry to ieru Nihon

              Originally posted by westsan
              It is debatable about how "Brainwashed" they are when what they have been led to believe are facts. And facts that are not neccessarily one sided.
              Japans position was indefensible and remains so.
              Japan should be condemning the acts of these criminals.
              This would in turn pressure Yasukuni to extract these war criminals.
              I do believe the facts are manipulated strategically, but as for the actual war crimes, yes, I believe they committed atrocities. What we really need is a state level apology. I think ol' Aki-chan is willing, but his political handlers won't allow it. I agree with you on the need for repentance. The effect would, I think, be remarkable. Furthermore, it would turn the tables on those who use such issues for jingoistic purposes. Once they have formally apologised, the victims are no longer so free to bring it up every time someone decides they need to distract people from domestic issues. As for extracting the souls of the criminals, that is a difficult issue. I would be inclined to say let the dead lie where they lay (with a proper apology for their heinous actions), but I definitely understand your point.

              Comment


              • #8
                The China Problem

                I'm not so sure the Koreans have forgiven & forgotten. From what I've seen the South Koreans don't hate the Japanese people, but they still hate their Government, & with good reason. The racist, nationalist, jingoistic, formerly imperialist Japanese Government continues to refuse to even consider compensating Korean victims of wartime atrocities on the grounds that they are not legally obliged to because of the 1965 treaty. Yeah, but what about their moral obligation? Is that just a non-starter of something?

                As for the North Koreans? Hmm, well they're working on new hatchets.

                As for China - it's easy to say that their Government is worse than Japan's in terms of totalitarianism & imperialism, but the racism is a whole different ball-game. China is a huge multi-ethnic empire. Yes the Han dominate the scene, but even they're multi-linguistic & diverse in a way that Japan doesn't even vaguely resemble. Japan's homogenity, coupled with it's remarkable successes in a number of arenas, have lead to a national characteristic of blinding arrogance that results in suicidally stupid behaviour at times.

                Yes, a full & forthright apology would help matters (from a purely selfish Japanese point of view) enormously. Would it cost the world's second strongest economy much? Is it likely?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yup

                  Originally posted by spacetiger
                  I'm not so sure the Koreans have forgiven & forgotten. From what I've seen the South Koreans don't hate the Japanese people, but they still hate their Government, & with good reason. The racist, nationalist, jingoistic, formerly imperialist Japanese Government continues to refuse to even consider compensating Korean victims of wartime atrocities on the grounds that they are not legally obliged to because of the 1965 treaty. Yeah, but what about their moral obligation? Is that just a non-starter of something?

                  As for the North Koreans? Hmm, well they're working on new hatchets.

                  As for China - it's easy to say that their Government is worse than Japan's in terms of totalitarianism & imperialism, but the racism is a whole different ball-game. China is a huge multi-ethnic empire. Yes the Han dominate the scene, but even they're multi-linguistic & diverse in a way that Japan doesn't even vaguely resemble. Japan's homogenity, coupled with it's remarkable successes in a number of arenas, have lead to a national characteristic of blinding arrogance that results in suicidally stupid behaviour at times.

                  Yes, a full & forthright apology would help matters (from a purely selfish Japanese point of view) enormously. Would it cost the world's second strongest economy much? Is it likely?
                  Naisu. I agree on the Korean issues. As for an apology being forthcoming, let's not hold our breath. Sad.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kurogane
                    The Chinese political class is on a rampage. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a head of goivernment going to honour the nation's fallen.

                    It is time everybody stopped kissing Commie ass and stood up to those racist, nationalist, jingoistic, imperialist F'wits. They make Americans look like a peaceful nation of mellow Quakers.
                    Kurogane hates China (not the people, of course, merely as a belligerent expansionist state)
                    my sentiments exactly.

                    boycott beijing 2008.

                    http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=174

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think mai ass just moved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      Very nice link, ananda. That is the kind of thing I am talking about here. NOT the people, the government. They are betraying the legacy of what, in the end, was still one of the most beneficial revolutionary programmes in history. Cultural Revolutions, and Great Leaps Forward aside, they fed their people. Clothed and schooled them too. A people rocked and ruined by a hundred years of turmoil, imperialism, civil war, more imperialism, and yet more civil war. Historically, I am sympathetic, but currently, I am a screaming Sinophobe, and I hate being a phobe; makes me feel so microbiotic.

                      The problem here is that the values with which we are operating are so different, and divergent, that there seems little chance for a happy middle ground. Even the Man in the Stleet probably gets nationalistic when told that Western People are criticising China, whether the object be the govt or the nation. Fair enough, they've got a lot to be touchy about (for details see the penultimate sentence of the above paragraph). Furthermore, the ruling cadre operates on the Face principle, and sees such rabble as a threat to a succesful Olympics, as in a showcase event of The Modern & Powerful China. All we see is more rabid suppression of diversity and already inadequate freedoms.
                      Got to love the Sweet & Sour Pork, though. For that alone, I bless them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kurogane
                        Historically, I am sympathetic, but currently, I am a screaming Sinophobe, and I hate being a phobe; makes me feel so microbiotic.
                        I hate you being a Sinophobe too KG, however much I symphasise. Too long in Japan, perhaps?

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                        • #13
                          Who should apologize for all of this? The grandchildren of the criminals? Ya know, my great great great great grandfather suffered under the oppression of the United Kingdom...I want reperations AND a full written apology.

                          While we're at it...I want an apology from the Catholic church, the druids, Napoleons great great great great great grandson and Genghis Kahns remaining lineage....

                          You liberals love apologies...like that is going to make everything better.

                          But what gets me here, is Kurogamies hatred for the Chinese government. I thought it was like Shangri-la over there for your communist minded @ss? The working man rising up from the mountains to win their independance! A workers revolution! What greatness!

                          But what happened there Kuro-babs? What happened to this great idea of a government for the pee ons? Same thing that happened in Russia...same thing that happened in Cuba...in North Korea...in Cambodia...and any other place where the workers ruled the day....Communism doesnt work because human will can not be trusted with power. A group inevitabley wants and claims more power and then corrupts the great idea.

                          Itll never work Babs! Never has, never will.

                          My question is Babsy, what is your ideal form of government? What government do you give credibility? Does it exist?

                          If you could create your ideal country, what would it look like?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Korea, China and Japan do have their share of differences, that is for sure -- and some of them seem quaint to us more cosmopolitan people from the West. Like the debate between South Korea and Japan over the name of the "Sea of Japan" -- Koreans say it should be called "The East Sea", for example (because it is east of Korea). There is a similar dispute between South Korea and the Peoples Republic of China over the naming of the Yellow Sea -- Koreans say it should be called "the West Sea" (because it is west of Korea). The average Westerner would say: "Who the hell cares? It is just a stupid ocean! Just get the UN to decide on new neutral names for these bodes of water, and get over it!" But here in Asia, they don't take such a casual approach to these issues.
                            I think the problem is that each of the three nations of this region (China, Korea, and Japan), have an arrogant view that they are the most superior nation of the Earth. China calls itself the Middle Kingdom and looks down on foreigners as barbarians (gwailo's). Japan, inheriting China's arrogance, calls itself the Land of Harmony and has a
                            similar distaste for gaijin barbarians (who don't even know how to handle chopsticks, for Buddha's sake!). I don't know that much about Korea, but I assume they have an insufferable pride over there, based on my two trips to that country. Even though it is a middling nation on the world stage, they seem to regard themselves as the heart of Civilisation. In North Korea this fear of the outside world has taken an extreme turn. We may laugh at North Korea, but Japan could have easily ended up the same as North Korea, had history taken a different course.

                            So, what happens when you get three over-proud and xenophobic nations living side by side? Exactly the kind of biitching and bickering that regularly takes place between Korea, China and Japan. The sad thing is that if they worked together, they could be an unbeatable force in world economics. And the good news is, there are signs that these three nations are moving together more. Consider the recent success of Korean TV programs in Japan. I reckon the next step will be Japan's discovery of Korean Pop music (K-Pop), which is widely regarded as the best pop music in Asia. (Anything's gotta sound better than J-Pop!!) I have already noticed a lot of K-Pop magazines in Tokyo record shops. So, while the Governments of China, South Korea and Japan are terminally facked (to use Kurogane's term), the peoples of these countries are starting to develop a more mature appreciation for their regional neighbours -- and that is something to be encouraged. Because they have so much in common, and if they work together, they can help keep the US and the EU at bay.
                            Last edited by Code Rot; 2004-12-11, 11:55 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Godzillagaijin, the British gave you a new Liberty Bell, so pipe down.

                              When I was in Xian a South Korean friend told me a story regarding the Terracotta Warriors, which may be apocryphal, but still illustrates how mixed up the situation is. Anyone who's seen the warriors (& an impressive sight they are) know's that they're colourless. When they're first excavated they're perfectly preserved but their pigments fade rapidly once they're exposed. Apparently the Japanese have devised a technique that would enable the Chinese to preserve the hues of soldiers uncovered in future excavations. In return for supplying the Chinese with this technology they asked that they be given just one recently excavated statue. The Chinese refused, so instead of taking the opportunity to appear magnanimous by giving them the technology anyway, the Japanese withheld it. They're as bad as each other, but the Chinese have a lot more clout. If I was a Japanese nationalist, I'd be concerned about the future, but I guess if I was a Japanese nationalist I'd be too busy denying the past.

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