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Who Is Ernst Zundel, And Why Is He In Jail?

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  • Who Is Ernst Zundel, And Why Is He In Jail?

    Has anyone read anything abou this guy ? I can try and forward the URL to you later.
    The current news on his should concern every Canadian !

    Thanks !

  • #2
    Assuming you're not trolling, you can find out more about Zundel here:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/zundel/

    and his current status here (doesn't mention anything about him being in jail):
    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...el-050225.html

    Basically a pathetic holocost denier who lived in Toronto during the 80s and liked to write nazi propoganda and surround himself with white supremicist skinheads to boost his ego. He seemed to fade away as I can't remember hearing anything about him for the past 10 years until yesterday. I think most Canadians would say good riddance. If they even cared anymore after all this time.

    Comment


    • #3
      Xanid

      What are your personal feelings about the guy ? Personally, I can careless about Jews and what they went through especially when you consider what happened to alot of other people and civilizations. I am not condoning this guys actions I just believe that "due process" and justice was not served. I read the material you sent me. Thanks.

      Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-semetic I just don't care for Jewish people. After all , people are people. I believe Zundel should be able to express his opinions non-violently. But he was singled-out for reasons that were not made entirely clear. Many people regarded Malcolm X the same way . A person who was too outspoken but never advocated violence. Zundel never preached violence.

      Comment


      • #4
        Being a neo-nazi is about a lot more than hating Jews. Maybe you should read up a bit on the material as you are obviously ignorant about it. Being a militant neo-nazi is about much, much more. Hell, the original Nazi movement wasn't just about hating Jews either, they were just convenient scape goats to get the ball rolling.

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        • #5
          What are you talking about Nimrod Maxipad

          1# We are talking about "Due process" and the right to a fair trial under the law.
          2# We are talking about free speech.
          3# We are not trying to create a "slippery slope" of propaganda by stating that just because a guy doesn't agree with what every christian your jew believes is 100% true !
          4# Zundel's is being tried for "thought crime." Not an actual crime ! If I hate a jew then I'm a criminal ? Let's fast forward to the future ! Maybe a little pre-meditated hate will get me thrown in jail.
          5# Where do you draw the line ?
          6# My heart bleeds for the six million jews who died in Auchwitz ! Why do I need to feel overly sympathetic for a group of people who practice segregation and racial indifference amonst every other race !? They have my sympathy's to a point just like any other race who has suffered under the hands of their oppressor !
          7# Maxamm , whatever your name is ! Wake-up ! Do you swallow every pill that's shoved down your throat ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Read on !

            maxi wrote:
            Being a neo-nazi is about a lot more than hating Jews. Maybe you should read up a bit on the material as you are obviously ignorant about it. Being a militant neo-nazi is about much, much more. Hell, the original Nazi movement wasn't just about hating Jews either, they were just convenient scape goats to get the ball rolling

            We are not talking about the Nazi movement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            We are not trying to open up a history book so that we can sound intelligent about how awful
            Neo-Nazi's are !
            We are looking at the legality as to why he is being deported ! ! If Zundel can have his rights stripped then so can anybody else who's views are questionable and overly scrutinizing.

            The future of free speech is in question here ! Not about how benelovent and sympathetic we can be to the jews !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mcalpine
              We are not talking about the Nazi movement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              Someone forgot his meds today. He was wanted back in Germany for inciting hate crimes in connection with Neo-Nazi groups. If you want to head to the German prosecutors and see what evidence they do or don't have, be my guest. But I would assume that Canada has an extridition treaty with Germany, so if he's wanted in Germany, Canada is obliged to ship him out. End of discussion.

              Oh, and excessive use of the exclamation mark "!!!!" does not add anything to your posts. I don't give a **** who your heart bleeds for. It just seems that you have a negative 'knee-jerk' reaction to this case without yourself knowing any of the real details.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mcalpine
                What are your personal feelings about the guy ?.
                Well, I'm digging back into my memory here but my feelings are based on living a few blocks away from him for 7 years from 1984. Though I never met the guy, and the few times I walked past his house it was quiet (in a desolate, run-down, heavily fortified kind of way) he managed to get himself in the media quite a bit over that time. Always came across to me as a slimebag who claimed to be non-violent while surrounding himself with white-supremicist symbols and young thugs. He made his bed in the eighties and nineties and now he's going to lie in it. I won't shed a tear.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mcalpine
                  The future of free speech is in question here ! Not about how benelovent and sympathetic we can be to the jews !
                  I know I don't speak for everyone here, but I for one believe that free speech SHOULD have certain limits when it comes to the propagation of hate against minority groups such as Jews. And it would definitely seem that the majority of Canadians (as well as Germans) agree with me, as laws have been enacted laws to this end. Section 281 of the Canadian Criminal Code clearly prohibits the promotion of hatred against any "identifiable group." Ernst Zundel has very clearly violated this section - many many times.

                  Canada's Hate Law was enacted in 1986 following the high profile court case of James Keegstra, a junior high social studies teacher from rural Alberta who was charged in 1984 of teaching that the Holocaust was a fraud and that Jews were "treacherous, evil and responsible for depressions, anarchy and war." This of course was not simply a case of a person expressing racist views, but also that of Mr. Keegstra's blatant abuse of his position of authority as a teacher in his advancement of false history and hateful ideology. Ernst Zundel's case is definitely more complex than this, as he has been spreading his message through free media rather than in a classroom setting. Nevertheless, think about what Zundel is asking of Canada. He is asking the country to grant him refugee status so that he can be free to promulgate his ideology of hate. This is abuse of Canada's refugee system, and to my mind giving asylum to a man who preaches hatred of Jews, propagates false interpretations of history, surrounds himself with racist thugs, and cultivates ties with such unsavoury figures as Russian ultranationalist leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky would make a mockery of the system. We don't let just anybody in anyway, so why should we let in Zundel? I find it ironic that the people calling Zundel a martyr and a censorship victim (notably his defense lawyer Doug Christie, who also defended Jim Keegstra and is the founder of the far-right Western Canada Concept Party) are the people normally harping on about how Canada's immigration laws are too lax.

                  Anti-hate laws exist for a reason: the world is full of hateful people, and hateful people are a danger to society. Countries like Germany and France have enacted particularly tough anti-hate laws because they've experienced first-hand the horrors of what runaway racist ideology can lead to. I for one don't see how laws against the propagation of hate are any different from laws against rape or pedophilia. Verbal assault is still assault, and though it involves no attack on the body it is still excruciatingly painful.

                  Now if only Japan would follow Canada and Germany's example.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mcalpine
                    Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-semetic, I just don't care for Jewish people.
                    That was one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. It reminds me of that Woody Allen flick titled, "The Curse of the Jade Scorpion"
                    Helen Hunt - "You're searching my desk! "
                    Woody - "I wasn't searching, I was rummaging."

                    Madmax, Frozen Zap - irrefutable arguments.
                    McAlpine - Try inciting an argument defending pedophilia or bestiality, I'll try to back you up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Interestingc

                      ...this thread has the exact same title as an internet article by professional holocaust denier, Mark Weberc hmmm.

                      http://www.ihr.org/news/030923Zundel.shtml

                      Originally posted by Morning Star
                      That was one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. .
                      Yeah, to be sure, though for me, I've got 'Stalag 13' in my head. Anybody here remember that?

                      Zap, you continue to blow me away with your knowledge and grasp of affairs, past and current. Carry on comrade.

                      Anyway, two more cents worth: Ernst Zundel is tired old news in Canada.

                      You will get lawyers arguing one side of an issue or another until all appeals or funds are exhausted. That is exactly what has happened here. Ernst Zundel is at the end of his legal rope.

                      The image of olf Ernst wearing a hard hat and using a bull horn to bellow out his Nazi-loving views was often on the news in the 80fs. It is uncommon for a law-abiding landed immigrant to be denied citizenship in Canada. As Zap pointed out, we do have hate laws. Ernst chose to ignore them.

                      Hopefully, Ernst will finally be deported to his home country, where his Nazi-faced self will, at long last, be dealt with by the German courts.

                      His time in Canada hasnft been a total waste of time though, in terms of his notoriety. When someone makes a boneheaded racist comment, itfs not unusual hear the reply, gGood one, Ernst.h

                      So long Ernst. Donft let the door slap your big fat Nazi ass on the way out.

                      gg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Zap! Thanks for taking the time to say very eloquently some thoughts that were floating around somewhere in my brain, in some abstract form, which I probably never would have gotten the energy to post myself.

                        I feel there is no good moral defense of the actions of Ernst, and that the legal defenses are rather thin, considering laws that are in place, and legal precedents. I'm sure if he hadn't managed to become a bigger name in Canada he would have been shipped off to Germany long ago so that his trial might have proceeded. Let's face it, asylum laws weren't meant to protect people like Ernst, and extradition treaties are in place for a reason, and will start falling apart if they aren't honored, especially between two countries with relatively progressive legal systems (i.e. people not having hands cut off for thievery, or hanged for herasy).

                        Now, if the US wanted Canada to turn over some people for a bogus terror charge... that would be a different story.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Alberta Volksrepublik?

                          Zundel lied on his original immigration application. Hence, Bye Bye Ernie. As for due process, maybe we should melt the facker down and make lampshades out of him to try and recoup some of the Crown's legal expenses after that ridiculous testament to due process. He got his day in court, and now he gets a free one way ticket home to Za Faderland. Bye Bye Ernie.
                          Landlady: "Ohh, Mr. Hilter, Mr. McGoering just phoned and said he's found a place to rent bombers by the hour"
                          Mr. Hilter: "If that silly Scottish person opens his mouth again, it's lampshade time"

                          Name the show and the character who played Mr. Hilter, and the winner will receive a free one way ticket to Stalingrad, circa 1943. "Not much fun in Stalingrad"

                          The Left Coast rests.
                          xanid,
                          nice work.
                          GG,
                          you old liberal sod, how goes the Good Fight?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kurogane
                            Landlady: "Ohh, Mr. Hilter, Mr. McGoering just phoned and said he's found a place to rent bombers by the hour"
                            Mr. Hilter: "If that silly Scottish person opens his mouth again, it's lampshade time"

                            Name the show and the character who played Mr. Hilter, and the winner will receive a free one way ticket to Stalingrad, circa 1943. "Not much fun in Stalingrad"
                            Heh heh heh . . . good one Kurogane! That would of course be an excerpt from the classic Monty Python's Flying Circus skit "The North Minehead Bye-Election," featuring John Cleese as Mr. Hilter (note spelling), as well as Graham Chapman as "Ron Vibbentrop" and Michael Palin as "Reginald Bimmler." Also features the following wonderful exchange:

                            Hilter: Ah! Stalingrad! Ha ha ha, Heinri...Reginald, you have the wrong map here you silly old leg-before-vicket English person.

                            Bimmler: I'm sorry mein Fuhrer, (Hilter slaps him) mein Dickie old chum.

                            All I have to say to that is: "My dog has no nose!" "How does he smell?" "Awful!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You Guys !

                              With the exception of Zap no one has addressed the importance of free speech.
                              I am concerned about this issue because I don't know how Zundel ever promoted hate ?
                              Can anyone prove to me how Zundel demonstrated a hate crime ?
                              Why is it that everybody is always in the defense of Jews ????

                              Comment

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