Fudosan entitled to collect unpaid rent?

[nemesisx]

Hiya, I am new to these pages but I have a very strange question. I have heard of a case from an acquaintance where a person in my city is being required to pay rent from a couple of years back because the fudosan did not collect it!

Sorry, it`s not me (honest) so I can`t give more details but from my friend who knows them, this person is just livid at now being hit for such a huge bill. As it turns out it was a case of the fudosan not giving an account number or passbook for the renter to pay the rent into each month.

Therefore the renter (another gaijin) thought it was being done by automatic transfer from their bank account montly. Apparently they do a number of different jobs and use that account`s cash card、not a passbook. They also get any number of their bills paid from there by automatic transfer so they didn`t notice that rent was being taken out. The fudosan is denying all responsibility (as they do here!) so I am curious as to what is the legal position of ANY renter in Japan in such a case? Surely the negligence of the fudosan makes them half liable?

Obviously nobody is helping this person with real advice. It`s just `You are a bad gaijin who didn`t pay the rent!` Does anybody know if the fudosan actually cannot enforce this now? This amazed me when I heard it!

[person]

How in the world could someone NOT use a passbook? Sorry, I find that REALLY difficult to believe. Since we don't have checkbooks (or the like) here, and I have never gotten a "statement" from any of the many banks I've used, how could the person have an inkling as to what money he/she had in his/her acct. if he/she didn't use a passbook? Sorry, that's crap.

[kurogane]

Any person that doesn't pay their rent is liable for it. IT's rent, after all.

Is this person you are speaking of, umm, how can I phrase this, Stoopid? Surely they must have realised that they had a lot more money than they should have becasue the rent wasn't being deducted.

Now, fair enough, getting hit with the bill two years later must hurt, but since they never paid the rent in the first place, they should still have that money. They are probably legally still liable, and the idea that they are angry (rather than just understandably surprised and shocked) makes me think that perhaps they either not all there, or not quite up to scratch as far as doing things properly; like paying the rent.

On the other hand, perhaps if there is an older, lonely employee at the real estate company, amybe you, err, sorry, your friend could find Other Ways to pay off the rent. I hear a lot of Japanese women that get into debt do this.
Hope that helps.

[nemesisx]

Yes, I agree the situation sounds absolutely weird but I can`t find out more as it`s somebody I don`t even know. I was told this. What caught my attention is how the fudosan can justify sleeping on this for the length of time they did - that`s just as negligent as the renter I think.

I also don`t know what the fudosan told the renter. I was interested in hearing this because to me it sounds like a 50/50 split of responsibility. My old fudosan once gave me complete misinformation via my guarantor and then tried to say I was the irresponsible gaijin for following it. I went to their office and quoted what they had said and they had to back down eventually. That matter is too long to discuss.

What was the fudosan up to - not giving the account number to the renter? How were they supposed to pay? That is what interests me. My friend said this rental agent`s practice is getting the renter to put the money in each month with a passbook they give the renter. He said his friend is not a liar and was never given one. Still sitting in the fudosan`s office I think.

So ..... to recap, what do you think of the fudosan 1) Not giving the passbook a long time ago 2) Not checking. I think this is the most amazing case of irresponsibility in realtor dealings I have ever heard of. Interestingly, a Japanese friend of mine said probably the fudosan was 70 percent in the wrong. Interesting.

[kurogane]

Cool. I still think the renter in question was pretty negligent for not paying the rent, but that estate agency sounds like a pretty crap outfit.

Nonehteless, it is a legal debt, given that the renter contracted for housing at a given price that was not paid.

However, it might be worth going to the ward office Soudan corner and seeing what they have to say. The rights of renters in Japan is remarkably strong, and you never know, he/she might get off without having to pay the whole amount.
Then they owe us all a beer, eh?!

[person]

Can I assume the passbook you are referring to is NOT the one the bank gives you? Is it specifically just to pay rent? Even so, the money STILL has to be coming from your bank acct., right? If you look at that passbook, it would be very clear that no rent is being deducted, right? I mean, if this person knew other bills were being deducted, I trust he/she knew rent was not being deducted as well.

That said, my guess is, he/she DID know it wasn't being deducted and just sort of went with it. Hell, I'd probably do the same thing. My next guess is similar to what's already been said -- he/she is just surprised that someone finally caught on.

Is the person still living in the same place? If the person has moved, while it's still a legal debt, it would seem the company should really take some responsbility (famous JP phrase) for the huge oversight. I mean, 2 years? Seems it shouldn't take someone that long to catch on...no matter how stupid they are. Perhaps there's some sort of time limit for recouping one's fees.

Bottom line -- if he/she can get away with it, more power to 'em. However, they, undoubtedly, knew they weren't paying rent all along so they really ought not to be that surprised. Nothing in life is free...least of all housing in Japan. We all know this.

[kurogane]

Is the person still living in the same place? If the person has moved, while it's still a legal debt, it would seem the company should really take some responsbility (famous JP phrase) for the huge oversight. We all know this.

Are you talking to yourself again???
Sorry.................

Nice post. That pretty much sums it up. The person in question (not you, person!) was negligent, at least naive, and probably at least situationally stoopid (maybe Confused In Japan??). That company is really crap, though.

[person]

Please don't confuse this person. She's not allowed to think on weekends...well, at least critically (though she is, of course, still allowed to be critical)!

[nemesisx]

Thanks person and kurogane. This is interesting. To person - sorry, I didn`t make it clear that what my friend told me was -

The fudosan is supposed to give all the renters a passbook that has the account number on it. For the purposes of paying rent. The renter goes to the bank and puts the money in the fudosan or owner`s account. If they don`t receive that information they cannot pay the rent of course. With no account number how would you know where to transfer it?

The renter we are talking about never received one according to my friend. That`s why they assumed it was being deducated automatically and they had filled out so many forms including one that was for automatic bank transfer re the house insurance. I can understand how they`d get mixed up. Again I think the fudosan don`t deserve business for not supplying the account number in the first place. That`s just my take.

[eku]

if the fudosan gives you a passbook in the fudosan's name.... it means they are diddling thir accounts and taxes
if you transfer the money or furikomi with just the account number it shows up as being paid as rent... but straight cash deposit into thier own account is fiddlable (if there is such a word)
also I think 2 years without warning of no pament... is rather odd...in fact if taken to court I think the tenant and not the landlord would win. kind of like a defacto marriage.... live together long enough and its almost legal....
is there a contract involved?
If I were your 'friend' I would call some legal counsel... preferably a free one and find out

[akahebi]

if you transfer the money or furikomi with just the account number it shows up as being paid as rent... but straight cash deposit into thier own account is fiddlable (if there is such a word)
also I think 2 years without warning of no pament... is rather odd...in fact if taken to court I think the tenant and not the landlord would win.

Interesting. Yes, the landlord could simply say he was making his own cash deposits into his own account - untaxable income is what it becomes. However, this is another issue that is irrelevant to the renter.

Using a passbook in this manner does provide a simple way for the renter to keep track of payments, but because the landlord does not have the passbook, it is slightly more difficult to keep track of payments on that end because he has to check the balance with his card each month and make his own record.

Back to the issue. As kurogane pointed out, the renter has a legal obligation to pay for an apartment he obviously used. The only way out of this that I can think of is if there is a limit on how far back landlords can demand payment.

What I don't understand is if the landlord took money out of the renter's account with an automatic withdrawl system, then the renter wouldn't have a need for the landlord's passbook. And the renter would have had to sign a form giving permission to withdrawl money.

Suggestion: Pay with credit card. Then you can complain to the cc company and have them stop or reverse payments.

[kanashibari]

fargit , don't pay, leave japan, and come back in a few months to a different place, solved.