Why a degree?

[LinuxFun]

How was I saying that you were?




I'm not really sure what you mean by this. But since you are asking if a degree is necessary, and a degree is the standard, I'd posit that you are asking the question backwards. It should be "do you have any idea of an open-source social network that has a similar social framework to university'? I'd say the closest thing you would get would be distance learning.

Distant learning can be consider proprietary. The question is in the right order.

[Effected After]

Then what does your question mean?

[LinuxFun]

Then what does your question mean?

A decentralize approach that uses professionals and professors as mentors and the free academic material online to help a person develop their skill to a profession level. This can be govern by a opensource like community.

Do you have any good ideas?

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

Do you have any idea of an university equivalent that has a similar social framework like open-source community?

This does not make any sense.

What is a "university equivalent"? A community of teachers and scholars, which is not a community of teachers and scholars?

Just move to Europe for free higher education. Reinvent the wheel, or move to Europe.

[Effected After]

A decentralize approach that uses professionals and professor as mentors and the free academic material online to help a person develop their skill to a profession level. This can be govern by a opensource like community.

No, I can't say I've ever heard of a college course like this.

[LinuxFun]

This does not make any sense.

What is a "university equivalent"? A community of teachers and scholars, which is not a community of teachers and scholars?

Just move to Europe for free higher education. Reinvent the wheel, or move to Europe.

The internet silly!

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

The internet silly!

Is it 1969 already?

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

The Internet is a "university equivalent" according to our hero.

And the three bears lived happily ever after.

[Effected After]

An example of the benefit of schooling, vs. teaching one's self through free materials:

I never went to Japanese school. I did take private lessons for a period of time my second year here, but that's about as close to formal education as I got. Now, I speak Japanese, and I speak it at a business level. Other than the previously mentioned lessons I took, all education was done by me using books and asking questions to those around me. I got the JLPT level 2 a couple of years ago.

I've met people who have been here much shorter than I, but went to a proper Japanese school, that know more kanji than I, and sometimes when getting into conversations in which I am unfamiliar on the topic, they have a better vocabulary than I. I can pick up what I need to know quick enough, but they got that information in the first place by dedicating themselves full-time to learning the language. On top of this, they have something they can substantially present to employers when looking for a job - they went to XXX Japanese school for X months/years, and they got JLPT level X. I don't have that. I can say 'I speak Japanese'. The reason I got level 2 was so that I could qualify my knowledge if/when looking for work. Without that, I would have nothing, other than a claim that I can speak Japanese.

I used to work in HR in my old company, for almost 2 years. Part of my job was to hire English staff. I went through a million resumes. Which do you think gave me more information (thereby making the applicant more appealing):

1) I went to XXX Japanese school for X months/years, and got JLPT level X
2) I speak Japanese at a business level

The first one gives quantifiable data, with a standard to give a level that the applicant has achieved. The second one gives a non-quantifiable piece of data that doesn't provide any accurate way to guage where the applicant's level is at.

Now imagine I was hiring for a translation job. Which of these two do you think I would call in for an interview, and which do you think I would toss in the garbage?

Now imagine someone hunting for an IT job.

Applicant one's resume: I went to XXX university and graduated with a degree in Computer science.
Applicant two's resume: I have studied online, watching a whole lot of youtube videos, and talking with people in the field, trying to increase my knowledge as much as possible.

Again, which applicant is going to be called for an interview, and which is going to be skipped over?

Of course, with the last example, there could be a third example:

Applicant three's resume: I have 10 years experience in the IT field, working with [insert technology here] daily, as well as developing [insert something] for [insert some technology] which was used by [insert something that sounds good]

Now this person is in a much better position, as they have real, practical experience in the field. As long as the company doesn't have a 'only degree holders' stance, the person is a candidate for the job. BUT, that person had to find someone willing to hire them at the start, when they didn't have that practial experience. And that brings us back to the first two people.


So to get back to your original point, depending on the field, a degree isn't necessary. But more often than not, it's going to dramatically increase the odds of getting hired.

[LinuxFun]

The Internet is a "university equivalent" according to our hero.

And the three bears lived happily ever after.

Thank you for your story Goldilocks, you can join the topic when you are finished.

[LinuxFun]

An example of the benefit of schooling, vs. teaching one's self through free materials:

I never went to Japanese school. I did take private lessons for a period of time my second year here, but that's about as close to formal education as I got. Now, I speak Japanese, and I speak it at a business level. Other than the previously mentioned lessons I took, all education was done by me using books and asking questions to those around me. I got the JLPT level 2 a couple of years ago.

I've met people who have been here much shorter than I, but went to a proper Japanese school, that know more kanji than I, and sometimes when getting into conversations in which I am unfamiliar on the topic, they have a better vocabulary than I. I can pick up what I need to know quick enough, but they got that information in the first place by dedicating themselves full-time to learning the language. On top of this, they have something they can substantially present to employers when looking for a job - they went to XXX Japanese school for X months/years, and they got JLPT level X. I don't have that. I can say 'I speak Japanese'. The reason I got level 2 was so that I could qualify my knowledge if/when looking for work. Without that, I would have nothing, other than a claim that I can speak Japanese.

I used to work in HR in my old company, for almost 2 years. Part of my job was to hire English staff. I went through a million resumes. Which do you think gave me more information (thereby making the applicant more appealing):

1) I went to XXX Japanese school for X months/years, and got JLPT level X
2) I speak Japanese at a business level

The first one gives quantifiable data, with a standard to give a level that the applicant has achieved. The second one gives a non-quantifiable piece of data that doesn't provide any accurate way to guage where the applicant's level is at.

Now imagine I was hiring for a translation job. Which of these two do you think I would call in for an interview, and which do you think I would toss in the garbage?

Now imagine someone hunting for an IT job.

Applicant one's resume: I went to XXX university and graduated with a degree in Computer science.
Applicant two's resume: I have studied online, watching a whole lot of youtube videos, and talking with people in the field, trying to increase my knowledge as much as possible.

Again, which applicant is going to be called for an interview, and which is going to be skipped over?

Of course, with the last example, there could be a third example:

Applicant three's resume: I have 10 years experience in the IT field, working with [insert technology here] daily, as well as developing [insert something] for [insert some technology] which was used by [insert something that sounds good]

Now this person is in a much better position, as they have real, practical experience in the field. As long as the company doesn't have a 'only degree holders' stance, the person is a candidate for the job. BUT, that person had to find someone willing to hire them at the start, when they didn't have that practial experience. And that brings us back to the first two people.


So to get back to your original point, depending on the field, a degree isn't necessary. But more often than not, it's going to dramatically increase the odds of getting hired.

Listen I am not implying that colleges as a whole is bad. I had some wonderful professors . I had friend and supervisor who took a Japanese course by a Japanese professor who's prior job was to train military linguist under six month. He was extremely effective.

My beef is that the price of attending a university will eventually become unaffordable because supply and demand. That's why the price in America is sky rocketing. That why I said to you that you can not think in a vacuum.

If the employer is not lazy there is plenty of option to gain the suitable candidate.

portfolio

on-site test

hiring board

etc...

[Effected After]

What does that have to do with any of the post you quoted?

[LinuxFun]

What does that have to do with any of the post you quoted?

I am replying to what you posted.

[Effected After]

By ignoring it altogether and posting on something else altogether?

[LinuxFun]

By ignoring it altogether and posting on something else altogether?

I did not ignoring any thing. You basically said that formal school setting offerings better learning environment, and the employers take that into account, because the transcript offers a lot of detailed information. The third option is a person with years of working experience.

I replied by saying the the price of university will become unaffordable in the near future. so that is why I started this thread.

[LinuxFun]

By ignoring it altogether and posting on something else altogether?

if you want I can send you a PM of my Google voice user name.

[Effected After]

I did not ignoring any thing. You basically said that formal school setting offerings better learning environment, and the employers take that into account, because the transcript offers a lot of detailed information. The third option is a person with years of working experience.

I replied by saying the the price of university will become unaffordable in the near future. so that is why I started this thread.

You still seem to be missing the point that the right education generally will bring in a higher income - which means more ability for those to pay off their debt.

[LinuxFun]

You still seem to be missing the point that the right education generally will bring in a higher income - which means more ability for those to pay off their debt.

and what I am saying is that a student loan can be the same amount as a home loan, which take the student loan off the table. No young adult should have that amount of debt period

This is a perfect example of knowledge with out wisdom.

[Effected After]

What country are you speaking of? A cheap home where I'm from is still more than $100 000, and that's a REALLY cheap home. I've never heard of anyone having a student loan more than that.

Now I agree that it sucks that young people have these huge student loans. But let's be realistic here - if you are going to Harvard, your school fees will be ridiculous. But there are a lot of smaller cheaper universities out there that aren't going to cost anything near that. I came out of uni with like $8000 in loans. Add the money I received from my folks over my school years, and it cost maybe around $14000. Of course I had living expenses and whatnot, but I worked while in Uni to cover that.

[LinuxFun]

What country are you speaking of? A cheap home where I'm from is still more than $100 000, and that's a REALLY cheap home. I've never heard of anyone having a student loan more than that.

Now I agree that it sucks that young people have these huge student loans. But let's be realistic here - if you are going to Harvard, your school fees will be ridiculous. But there are a lot of smaller cheaper universities out there that aren't going to cost anything near that. I came out of uni with like $8000 in loans. Add the money I received from my folks over my school years, and it cost maybe around $14000. Of course I had living expenses and whatnot, but I worked while in Uni to cover that.

$80,000-100,00 is not ivory league. In America student loan is larger then the entire credit card debt. The same thing that caused the real-estate market to crash, is now happening to the student loan sector.

Community college is very valuable. But it is only 2 years.

[Jakebullet]

Pfft, scholarship?

[Effected After]

$80,000-100,00 is not ivory league. In America student loan is larger then the entire credit card debt. The same thing that caused the real-estate market to crash, is now happening to the student loan sector.

Community college is very valuable. But it is only 2 years.

Now you are talking the US. You're entirely right, the US is messed up. Are there any other countries where people rack up that kind of debt as an undergrad? I agree university is somewhat unattainable there for most people. That's because the US government seems to have missed the point that increasing the education of your citizens increases the overall prosperity of a country.

I came out of Uni with less than $10000 in student loans. I also worked my way through university though.

[TkSh]

Someone pointed out about your problem with english


but how can you call

Ivy league... an ivory league.

America?
America is a continent, not a country.

[LinuxFun]

Now you are talking the US. You're entirely right, the US is messed up. Are there any other countries where people rack up that kind of debt as an undergrad? I agree university is somewhat unattainable there for most people. That's because the US government seems to have missed the point that increasing the education of your citizens increases the overall prosperity of a country.

I came out of Uni with less than $10000 in student loans. I also worked my way through university though.

Did you graduate before 1995 or after?

Because the U.k. is making similar cuts to their budget.

[Effected After]

America?
America is a continent, not a country.

The dictionary disagrees with you (about it not being a country):

A·mer·i·ca
   [uh-mer-i-kuh]
–noun
1.
United States.

link

Did you graduate before 1995 or after?

Because the U.k. is making similar cuts to their budget.

I graduated after 1995. And if the UK is doing that, then they are shortsighted as well.

[LinuxFun]

I graduated after 1995. And if the UK is doing that, then they are shortsighted as well.

To be honest JakeBullet should give us some lesson about the economical meltdown which was caused by speculations and unregulated derivatives. Where is Jake?

This is why the UK is implementing austerity measures.

[LinuxFun]

Pfft, scholarship?

Hey Jake we need your expertise.

[TkSh]

The dictionary disagrees with you (about it not being a country):





I graduated after 1995. And if the UK is doing that, then they are shortsighted as well.

True,
my mistake not checking the dictionary from U.S.

However some people from America (continent) doesn't like to use this word as synonym of USA.
(like "estadounidense" in spanish).

[kurogane]

However some people from America (continent) doesn't like to use this word as synonym of USA.
(like "estadounidense" in spanish).

While they have trivial point, it's not a good one. America means the US.

The Americas refers to the New World in a continental sense.

Complaining about the US' appropriation of the continental term as a nickname for the country is silly, and peevish.

Lots of Canadians do the same sort of thing. We call them doughnut munchers.


But another point you raised is a much more important one:

if the OP really is an American, and referred to the Ivy League as the ivory league, then the only thing that will ever help him get ahead is an intensive remedial course in English.

I am starting to doubt he is an American, or rather that English is his first language.

Without substantial cognitive impairment, there is simply no way a native speaker could be as cretinous as he.

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

Ivory league.

Oh damn, why did I come back home early....

[LinuxFun]

Is there a possibility for a decentralize approach that uses professionals and professors as mentors and the free academic material online to help a person develop their skill to a profession level, which can be govern by a opensource like community?

[Effected After]

Not if someone wants a job where a degree is required.

[LinuxFun]

Not if someone wants a job where a degree is required.

That is true.

[Effected After]

Somewhat relevant:

[Kiboo]

Linux, I think the best thing you can do is to play Pachinko or simillar games or just scratch a Lotto and wait for the Jackpot. Then you can go to a University and not risking lifetime debt marathon. LOL ...

[LinuxFun]

Here is an informative video:

http://fora.tv/2010/02/26/Debate_Edu...nd_the_Economy

[Jakebullet]

Hey Jake we need your expertise.

Saying Derivatives is to blame for the meltdown is like saying a football team just won the English Premier League.
Detail is important here.

I went to Canterbury once and my dad pointed out a ducking stool where witches were unceremoniously "Ducked" and often killed. These witches aren't the customary black hatted wenches we know and love from Macbeth, they were normal people with rare gifts that people misunderstood.

People fear what they do not understand. Agreed, occasionally, with great knowledge it is often used unwisely though, as I have pointed out.

Have you got a degree yet or are you still trolling the open source forums?

Coincidentally, what you describe as a peer-like environment for study etc... that is the haven for the LAMP recluse, is also similar to a PhD. (Or so I am reliably informed by one of the more uniquely sociable quantitative analysts).

[LinuxFun]

Saying Derivatives is to blame for the meltdown is like saying a football team just won the English Premier League.
Detail is important here.
.

Jake,

When I ask you to explain the correlation between the meltdown and the austerity measure, I was asking a serious question.
When I said derivatives I really mean CDO. So Jake explain how the meltdown and the possible student loan bubble are interrelate.

[LinuxFun]

Hey Jake see if this makes any sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQBMRhVedI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alvK3dTkm4c

[kurogane]

Saying Derivatives is to blame for the meltdown is like saying a football team just won the English Premier League.

Saying Derivatives is to blame for the meltdown is like saying a football team just won the English Premier League, but that none of the individual players involved were responsible for the victory.

What we really need is some big boiling pots of oil, some of these fancy ducking chairs, and a bunch of bankers.

It's not like most of you are worth the time of day, anyways. Have you ever tried to have an intelligent conversation with a banker in Japan about anything but which froofy Cartier watch he plans to buy next???

I have. You're morons. It doesn't work.

People that reap but don't produce should be killed.

It's not like there's a shortage of scum.