Considering work: IT related or English teaching. Advice needed!

[JoeeT]

Hi everybody,

I don't post here often but would like to seek advice about prospects of working in Japan in the future. Since I'm considering two options: computing or teaching, I wasn't sure if I should be posting in one of the forums relevant to either, so I posted here instead. I'll understand if a moderator wants to move this to either of the relevant forums!

I'm from the UK and I have a BSc in Computing and an MSc in Applied Artificial Intelligence. I'm currently finishing my first year of a PhD but am starting to consider quitting it, since I don't think academia is where I want to stay. I also took a working holiday in Ibaraki last year working as an eikaiwa teacher. I haven't taken the JLPT test yet, but I would guess that I'm somewhere between the new level 3 and 4, probably closer to 4. I plan to take the JLPT level 4 test in December.

I could pursue a career in computing in Japan, but I hear that I'd need better language ability in order to be employed by any respectable companies. However, I fear that if I take yet another year off for study (of Japanese this time), that's one more year without work experience and if I finish this PhD I'll be 27 with only the experience of a part time Summer job in web development behind me. Ideally I'd like to be able to partake in some programme which enables working in Japan and language learning in parallel. Does anybody know of any such programmes, or of any other alternative solution to this dilemma?

My other option is to go back to English teaching. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what the prospects are. I hear from friends that work / have worked as ALTs that such jobs are hit and miss, but even with the good ALT jobs it's difficult to earn above a certain amount. If I took something like TEFL or TESOL, I hear that I can get better jobs, but is this really true? I'm told the starting salary is 250,000 yen a month. Is this good? And if I REALLY worked hard, how much could I be earning in the future? If I chose English teaching in Japan as my career, could I be earning enough to support myself and potentially a family for life? I also don't really understand the TEFL / TESOL structures. There seem to be so many different awards they can offer, so how do I choose which one to pursue?

Yes, that's a lot of questions, but I'm not expecting everybody to answer all of them. Any answers to any of these questions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

- Joee

[kyouki]

Without experience you'll have a rough time getting into IT here. Especially if your Japanese is not good.

There are exceptions- I know of one guy who works as an engineer programming pachinko machines and cannot speak Japanese at all. Everyone else I know who is working in IT speaks the language fluently and also has experience. Language requirements can be more relaxed in Tokyo.

If I were you I wouldn't even bother with the JLPT4. JLPT certification in general is not worth having. I haven't worked at a single company here that has required any kind of language certification. However, studying for the JLPT is definitely worth it. Instead of JLPT4 (which is frankly useless), aim for at least JLPT2 (which is considered "business level" Japanese).

If you really want to come to Japan, start out teaching, build up your language ability, get a bunch of IT certifications, and start applying. 250,000 is definitely doable as a single person. As for how much you could make in the future- if you treat teaching as a career and get into teaching at a university or private school (not through dispatch), you can make a very decent salary. I haven't gone this route so I can't say with certainty, but I've heard salary ranges of 350,000-500,000. If you stick with dispatch ALT work or conversation schools, you will likely never get much higher than the mid- to high 200,000s unless you do a lot of privates on the side.

As for IT, if you get into a foreign firm the salary can be quite good... especially in Tokyo. If you work for a Japanese company, expect low wages with tons of overtime until you get into your mid 30s and start making "decent" money (in the 300,000s). The longer you stay the more you make. Company hopping to increase salary is possible but not to the degree it is in the West.

[ttokyo]

I'm from the UK and I have a BSc in Computing and an MSc in Applied Artificial Intelligence. I'm currently finishing my first year of a PhD but am starting to consider quitting it, since I don't think academia is where I want to stay.

I could pursue a career in computing in Japan, but I hear that I'd need better language ability in order to be employed by any respectable companies. However, I fear that if I take yet another year off for study (of Japanese this time), that's one more year without work experience and if I finish this PhD I'll be 27 with only the experience of a part time Summer job in web development behind me. Ideally I'd like to be able to partake in some programme which enables working in Japan and language learning in parallel. Does anybody know of any such programmes, or of any other alternative solution to this dilemma?

My other option is to go back to English teaching. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what the prospects are. ... If I chose English teaching in Japan as my career, could I be earning enough to support myself and potentially a family for life?

Seems that your 'midlife crisis' is already happening at 25...
Anyway... First what you say does not make sense. You want to quit 'academia' but then you want to switch into teaching ?
I would probably finish the PhD if you have already invested a year and are also on a scholarship.

As you say, English teaching is not paying enough to support a family, especially if you want to maintain a 'foreign' lifestyle, i.e. western-style apartment, trips home and international schools for the kids. Also, there is no real 'progress' unless you open your own school.

Many foreign companies have also non-japanese speaking IT staff. Check at sites such as panachejobs or bloomberg. As you are in Japan right know it would make sense to already apply for some IT related jobs and find out about your chances.

Some people in your situation would just morph into a half-japanese lifestyle. Getting married, learning Japanese, living in the countryside and getting along more or less by teaching english and doing a bit of IT project work on the side. But if you are 'PhD material' you could be easily starting an IT career instead.

PS : It turns out that it was a bad decision to spend the working holiday year as an English teacher. While you apparently had your fun, it would have been wiser to do some internship in an IT company or similar.

[KansaiBen]

Let me set you straight on this now. You would NOT. I repeat NOT be able to support a family on an ALt salary. especially if you have kids. If wife is working and you pool your salary you may be OK, but once she stops working and has kids you will be the sole breadwinner. There has been a lot discussion as to how much you need to live on with a wife and family. A few years ago I was on six million yen a year with two kids. Some posters said that was plenty and you have other people living on half that amount and still surviving. It all depends on if you don't mind living on the breadline or at least have a semi- comfortable existence. A low salary would mean no trips home, no international schools and living pay check to pay check.

"Better" jobs dont really exist in the eikaiwa language teaching market unless you teach companies are at a high school or teach at a university, for which you need a Masters degree and some way to get your foot in the door. Getting in is often the hardest here.

H
My other option is to go back to English teaching. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what the prospects are. I hear from friends that work / have worked as ALTs that such jobs are hit and miss, but even with the good ALT jobs it's difficult to earn above a certain amount. If I took something like TEFL or TESOL, I hear that I can get better jobs, but is this really true? I'm told the starting salary is 250,000 yen a month. Is this good? And if I REALLY worked hard, how much could I be earning in the future? If I chose English teaching in Japan as my career, could I be earning enough to support myself and potentially a family for life? I also don't really understand the TEFL / TESOL structures. There seem to be so many different awards they can offer, so how do I choose which one to pursue?

[JoeeT]

Anyway... First what you say does not make sense. You want to quit 'academia' but then you want to switch into teaching ?

What I mean is if I stay in IT after this PhD I don't want to stay working in a University doing research. If I'm struggling now I'll never manage as an academic researcher, and I certainly won't enjoy it. I know such a career isn't the only reason to do a PhD, but in all honesty I'm running out of reasons as to why I am doing one. The only one I hold on to is that I'm being paid to do it and I should go for it while I have the opportunity. But in all honestly, it's just not enough to keep me motivated. To pull through a PhD you need A LOT of interest to keep you going. I thought I had a lot when I started, but clearly I didn't have enough.

In general I feel like I'm actually more interested in teaching English, either in England or Japan, than I am in computing. When I taught in Japan before I found language teaching to be such a rewarding thing to do. The satisfaction of a working piece of code is nothing compared to the satisfaction of an English student you teach making clear progress. Money isn't that much of an issue really, because it's the job I enjoy. On the other hand, I do realise that I have to make sure I'm at least earning enough to support myself, and that just because a job is fun doesn't mean it's a good idea to take it. I'm very, very aware of that. I'm also aware that teaching isn't always rewarding. I've had classes that have made me want to storm out of the room. But at the end of the day, they're worth putting up with for the sake of the students who want to learn.

And yes, I'm aware that an ALT salary isn't enough for a family, but I don't really want to be an ALT anyway. Money aside, I've heard many stories about people taking those jobs and really not enjoying them. If I teach, I want to be doing something more than that, for example in a university or somewhere else. I know that's difficult to do, but I really want to find out how I might go about doing it. Will something like TEFL or TESOL really help be get jobs better than ALT level teaching in Japan?

[twelvedown]

I knew a guy who had a family on an ALT wage.
He lived out in the sticks though and had no bad habits. I'm sure it can be done. Plenty of Japanese do it.
You'll probably get some assistance from the wife's family, and the government.

Damn though, putting the cart before the horse. Get a job before you come if you can, get here and then we'll worry about the wives and childrens.

[JoeeT]

Damn though, putting the cart before the horse. Get a job before you come if you can, get here and then we'll worry about the wives and childrens.

Lol, I wasn't really planning on making a big deal of the family issue, I was really just wondering how much such an English teacher wage has potential to support. I'm certainly not worrying about the wife and kids yet

[hml]

I'm told the starting salary is 250,000 yen a month. Is this good? And if I REALLY worked hard, how much could I be earning in the future?

250,000/mo.

I knew a guy who had a family on an ALT wage.
He lived out in the sticks though and had no bad habits. I'm sure it can be done. Plenty of Japanese do it.

I have listened to many English teachers who _____ and moan about making "only 250,000" and how it's not enough to survive on and how they have only a few thousand yen left the last few days before pay day. It's pathetic, really. I eat out about 20 times a month and spend about 30,000 yen tops.

[KansaiBen]

Lol, I wasn't really planning on making a big deal of the family issue, I was really just wondering how much such an English teacher wage has potential to support. I'm certainly not worrying about the wife and kids yet

Only one you have to support is yourself. You cut your living standard according to length of your cloth, If you dont make enough you cut costs/spending or go out and find another job. worrying if its enough is a bit pointless as it depends on your lifestyle and living habits.

[shonanfred]

250,000/mo.


I have listened to many English teachers who _____ and moan about making "only 250,000" and how it's not enough to survive on and how they have only a few thousand yen left the last few days before pay day. It's pathetic, really. I eat out about 20 times a month and spend about 30,000 yen tops.

Averaging 1500円 each time you eat out???
Wow.
Fred
PS we are spending about 23万 per month, including mortgage.

[Effected After]

250000/month with a family is doable, but it's tight. Very tight. You won't be doing much eating out, or traveling home. Or anything else really. But it's doable.

[yu_ominae]

Dude, don't do it. You have a good education which could land you a good job in the UK, so stay there. I have a PhD in fluid mechanics and experience in structural engineering, thought I could make it here as an engineer and I am living to regret my move ever since I came here.

If you really have to come then you should become an English teacher, at least you'll get as good or better pay than as a foreign engineer and you'll be able to take holidays. I'm getting my first week of holidays next month after a year and a half here, and that was hard to get!

My advice: don't do it, stay in the UK, finish your PhD, then get a job where at least you'll be able what people want you to do. Added onus, you'll have your mates and family in the same country.

[ttokyo]

What I mean is if I stay in IT after this PhD I don't want to stay working in a University doing research. If I'm struggling now I'll never manage as an academic researcher, and I certainly won't enjoy it. ...
In general I feel like I'm actually more interested in teaching English, either in England or Japan.

a) With a completed PhD you will have better chances in any serious job. At my uni, the PhDs spent about half of their time teaching/tutoring. I'm surprised that is different at your Uni, but maybe your Japanese is not good enough. (Actually, often foreign lecturers at Unis are 'abused' by also having to teach their foreign language...)

b) Tough s**t. Yes, I'd also always wanted to be an astronaut. Fact is that you are NOT qualified to be an English teacher anywhere but in Japan as you don't have the proper training. So if you have really discovered that is your life goal, you probably have to go back to Uni and become a teacher for IT and English...

[yu_ominae]

What I mean is if I stay in IT after this PhD I don't want to stay working in a University doing research. If I'm struggling now I'll never manage as an academic researcher, and I certainly won't enjoy it.

I don't know if this will help, but during my PhD I could count the PhD students who said they liked doing their PhD on the fingers of one hand. You stick with it, you do it and then you laugh about it. You can always become an English teacher later, but you won't be able to do the PhD later.

[JoeeT]

I don't know if this will help, but during my PhD I could count the PhD students who said they liked doing their PhD on the fingers of one hand. You stick with it, you do it and then you laugh about it. You can always become an English teacher later, but you won't be able to do the PhD later.

That is actually the direction I'm planning on going in. I've been making enquiries all over the place and getting similar responses. It seems that finishing a PhD and then switching to teaching English as a foreign language is entirely doable, especially if you take a good TEFL or TESOL course. What I'm thinking of at the moment is to finish my PhD and take a TESOL with Business teaching course during or after the PhD. I'm told that this course gives me a good foothold to finding the better teaching jobs in Japan, though I won't necessarily get them straight away. Finding a TESOL course that suits one's time availability looks easier than I thought. Of course, doing one alongside a PhD would still add extra strain, but it doesn't seems as difficult as I had imagined. Of course, I could be wrong...

[yu_ominae]

That is actually the direction I'm planning on going in. I've been making enquiries all over the place and getting similar responses. It seems that finishing a PhD and then switching to teaching English as a foreign language is entirely doable, especially if you take a good TEFL or TESOL course. What I'm thinking of at the moment is to finish my PhD and take a TESOL with Business teaching course during or after the PhD. I'm told that this course gives me a good foothold to finding the better teaching jobs in Japan, though I won't necessarily get them straight away. Finding a TESOL course that suits one's time availability looks easier than I thought. Of course, doing one alongside a PhD would still add extra strain, but it doesn't seems as difficult as I had imagined. Of course, I could be wrong...

Sounds like you got a plan then! Good for you mate. If you gave up the PhD now you'd live to regret it I'm sure. I nearly ditched mine and I'm glad I didn't in the end. As for doing the teacher training thingy whilst you do your PhD, well if you must do that, then I think the best would be to do it right now, because when you get to 3rd year and beyond (you know "writing up period" ;o) ) you won't have time to do anything but sleep and write anymore... Well, unless you work really hard in your second year.

Everybody PhD student I know ended up graduating so you'll do it too no sweat.

[shonanfred]

Everybody PhD student I know ended up graduating so you'll do it too no sweat.

KB didn't.
Fred

[KansaiBen]

KB didn't.
Fred

I had a wife and two kids and an imploding marriage situation to deal with, not to mention teaching full time hours in addition to doing the research required for a PhD. Usually you either do the PhD, have a family life, but not both.

At the risk of sounding like a killjoy, as a foreign university teacher you will still be on 1-3 year contracts, running around looking for jobs and being in permanent job search mode as your contract expires. A PhD will put you at the top of the most hiring lists, as universities here more or less regard a person with a PhD as a "trophy" on their staff, to be replaced every three or four years with someone else.

[ttokyo]

At the risk of sounding like a killjoy, as a foreign university teacher you will still be on 1-3 year contracts, running around looking for jobs and being in permanent job search mode as your contract expires.

But that's not much different in Europe. I know somebody who is a university professor on 2-yr contracts only...