What it is like to work in Japan

[yu_ominae]

About a year and a half ago, following lehman-induced financial trouble for the engineering company I was working for in London I decided to pack up my stuff and go to my wife's home country: our beloved Japan! Everybody said "don't do it", but I though "how bad can it be? They just fear my intellectual powers and want to keep their good jobs to themselves!". Arrived here, posted on this forum to find out about jobs. Got ridiculed by the wiser members and though "____ them!". Turns out they were right.

Now I see there are still loads of posts by fresh-faced and hopeful foreigners about getting jobs in Japan, so I thought I'd write some stuff about how it has been for me here in the hope that some might see how things can be if you are overly optimistic... or maybe just plain stupid like me.

Anyways, I worked as a structural engineer in London for three years before coming here. That's not much, but for my defence, I did a PhD before that, but that's another matter and just more confirmation of my stupidity if you will. I also spoke fairly good Japanese at the time.
I thought in coming here that since engineering principles are the same regardless of the country and it would be possible to get a job in engineering. Didn't want to become an English teacher, because, well, I'm still not sure what you do then when you go back to Europe... teach English?

Job hunt sucked, there was nothing available. I really wished I had listened to he nay-sayers. Then I talked to a connection I found through my wife, who had a friend whose husband was the son of a civil engineering company here in Gifu and he agreed to let me have a year of work-experience at his company. That sounded like a plan: Improve my Japanese and get engineering experience, so I took it.

I spent the year going through two divisions in the company. First job was data-entry, that was fun, well, the sort of stuff you give a work-experience student. Thankfully I can program, so I spent the year coding up macros and programs. The work environment in a traditional company is a bit different from what you might be used to in Europe and it is every bit as bad as it is in the stereotypes: Unwashed people in work uniforms, women whose job includes cleaning the loo and making tea at regular intervals, low pay and no holidays and staying late to do your work because overtime sort of compensates for the low wage.

The two main gripes you might have with a Japanese company and these seem to be questions which come up regularly are: is the salary enough and what is the holiday allowance like?

- Salary for an engineer or any other technical job: SUCKS! I mean it sucks arse so much that you might end up with mooch marks on your bum for the rest of your life. I am not joking: unless you have ____ loads of experience and are above native level with your Japanese, I'd recommend you going for a teaching job, because the salaries are pretty much equivalent (plus, a lot of teachers get housing benefits), or in my case the teaching salaries are even slightly better (I have to add that I am on a regular employee wage now, which includes upgrades for seven years of experience as they count from the time you leave university). Don't count on working hard and getting promoted or something like that, because in a traditional company that does not happen unless everybody else who is senior to you first dies or retires.

-holidays: Well, nominally you get about 20 days of holidays. Plus the Japanese have about one national holiday every month. Sounds good? Yeah, just make sure that you can actually take that allowance. Well, you will probably be allowed to take one or two days off, but if you want to take two 10 days to go back to your country, that's where things can get fun... When nobody else ever takes a holiday, it can get pretty difficult for you to take one. The son of the owner of the company once said to me "I don't understand this need for foreigners to go on holiday..." that should sum it all up. Again, as an English teacher I think this might be less of a problem.

Now, to get on to the language and the working environment: I got my N1 certification whilst I was here and thought "yay, now I can get a job anywhere in Japan". But, most companies couldn't care less about the JLPT cert. And even if you have that, you still have to master all the technical jargon and that canbe pretty difficult. Plus Japan is a very certification-oriented society, and you'll have to pass all of those as well if you want to get somewhere. To give you an example: There are two certifications for structural engineers: 2kyu and 1kyu (how original). 2kyu is supposed to be very easy to get, say about two or three years for an engineering graduate, but 1kyu takes about 10 to 15 years. Don't expect to get an engineering job without 2kyu, so don't expect to get anywhere for the next 5 years at least. Ask yourselves, is it worth it?

Working-environmenwise, as the only foreigner in a Japanese company it can get pretty tough. It's probably a lot better if you work in an international company, but a traditional Japanese company is not all that funny. People don't know anything about foreigners, so they assume you know, well, not very much. I mean, I even got asked if we also used windows abroad and got shown surprise when I said that indeed I had heard of it before. Whether or not you'll make friends is down to you I guess, but I have found it hard (not the most outgoing person though...). These days my working day's conversations pretty much boil down to "good morning" and "I'm done for the day", but engineers are geeky and silent people no matter which country, so god knows if that isn't typical.

I'm leaving other stuff out, like having to come in early to work to clean the streets around the company once a month, not being allowed to use the air conditioning outside working hours, not being allowed to ask questions, not being allowed to change the way things are done because of tradition and all crap like that, which I assume is common to family-run businesses the world over.

OK the reason I am saying all this, apart from it being an attempt to see if it really is possible to bore somebody to death, is that I keep seeing these posts about working here and I just wanted to give people a bit of an insight about what it CAN be like. That is not to say that it WILL be like this, but from what I have seen and heard quite a few people have had this kind of experience, so don't cry later one. Or actually, you can cry, we all live and learn.

As an alternative, well, unless you get sent to Japan because you are absolutely awesome and get a matching pay and benefit package for the sacrifice you are willing to make to come here, I would recommend seriously looking at teaching if you really must come to Japan.
I have also heard from a few people who opened their own company and make their own rules. They all say that it was f***ing hard at first, but all those who made it absolutely love Japan now because they can do it the way they want. Well, who wouldn't love that.

That's it, hope this helps. If you have more experience to contribute then it would probably be useful if you did. If you think I am spouting rubbish, then please let me know, because if there is another way I'd love to know about it.

[hennagaijin]

You have my empathy..
I have never worked for anyone here.. but share some of those frustrations..

If I mention/complain about any stuff like that to my Japanese business partner, he just tilts his head and says in English: "It is normal, I think".

That is why so much stuff is messed up here.. they all just keep their mouths closed about ridiculous stuff and "ganbaru" some more... so nothing changes/improves..

[yu_ominae]

You have my empathy..
I have never worked for anyone here.. but share some of those frustrations..

Thanks mate. I was really hoping though that you'd tell me that working for yourself things are much nicer... Mind if I ask what business you are in?
Japanese culture is great when you are looking at it as a tourist, but it can be hell when you have to live with it.

[tsuchi1]

There is no way I would ever want to work in corporate Japan again.
I did it for Five years in Osaka and it sucked.

Go through your day with role-play greetings/ salutations, even answering the phone is predictable.
Friendships don't really grow especially Male ones,( they are too busy doing nothing) then chant tsukareta!!! All the time.
I think any laboring job or teaching English is much better than corporate jobs as the people you are working with are a little more real
Than Salary men/ OLs who are really just going through the motions.

Never again!!!!

[trip_hop]

Japanese culture is great when you are looking at it as a tourist, but it can be hell when you have to live with it.

Same goes for many countries, Thailand - self-proclaimed Land Of Smiles - can be a nightmare to live and work in. Philippines - kay ganda - so beautiful - as long as you lock and load to protect your valuables.

Always a huge difference between being on holiday somewhere with no responsibilities to the place, and residing there, earning a living and paying your dues...

[Tatsuo]

It's pretty good for a foreigner to work in Japan. Most of them came because they can't make it their home country and now they have the different culture and the country to blame for their failure.

People who let trivial things like " a difference in culture" get in their way couldn't become successful anywhere. People who know what they want and take what they want don't care much about country, culture and/or economical situation.

The only thing you need is a decent legal system that works and safe environment (both available in Japan). Everything else is second-rate and usually just used for excuses.

[magical]

I dont understand why people would work for Japanese companies. You gotta be completely crazy to do that, especially in engineering. Everybody knows how its like working there, so why bother applying?

If you want to work in Japan, go for foreign companies. There you'll get higher salaries, more vacation, less overtime and a foreigner-friendly working environment. I'm working for one, so I know what I'm talking about.

[Eja Cool8]

That was a good read, I found it very informative as I'm one of those people who is currently looking into the possibilites of working in Japan.

Hmm, do I stay in the UK that's currently going down the sh*tter and the current soul destroying job I'm in or hopefully make a move to Japan and find a soul destroying job but where learning about a different culture and language make up for it and the economics are doing better?

[yu_ominae]

That was a good read, I found it very informative as I'm one of those people who is currently looking into the possibilites of working in Japan.

Hmm, do I stay in the UK that's currently going down the sh*tter and the current soul destroying job I'm in or hopefully make a move to Japan and find a soul destroying job but where learning about a different culture and language make up for it and the economics are doing better?

That's a difficult call man. You know my opinion on it. Leaving one thing to learn about something else is good, just make sure you have an exit strategy if things go to pot after all when you are there. Japan is not that well off economically, but I guess you know that already. They wangled out of much needed reforms after the earthquake/tsunami disaster and it looks like they'll stay stationary for a while. Prime minister's about to change once again as well... sigh.

Also think that although you will be learning a new language and a new culture (not that easy when you are out there on your own) you'll be leaving friends and family behind. Take some, give some.

[twelvedown]

...and don't forget to clock out at 5.30 but then go back to your desk and do another 3 or 4 hours unpaid overtime.
More than likely you won't spend that 4 hours doing anything actually useful. Just fiddling around like everyone else there until someone finally decides that you've all worked long and 'hard' enough and heads for the door.

Japan and Germany are equally productive. The Germans just manage to do it in half the time.

[yyoko]

That was a good read, I found it very informative as I'm one of those people who is currently looking into the possibilites of working in Japan.

Hmm, do I stay in the UK that's currently going down the sh*tter and the current soul destroying job I'm in or hopefully make a move to Japan and find a soul destroying job but where learning about a different culture and language make up for it and the economics are doing better?

You will not only "learn about" Japanese culture you'll have to live in it and make it your own. Not as fun as you think but if you are sure you can take it, why not.

[Glenski]

There's a lot of stuff in your OP that the veterans here probably forewarned you about, mostly that you will have to dump your western ways and adapt to Japanese business practices. Nice to know so much of it was true.

Complaining about some of those things, though, is pretty silly if you ask me, like the once a month policing of the grounds. Be glad you aren't working like some English teachers who have to clean classrooms every day.

[yu_ominae]

Complaining about some of those things, though, is pretty silly if you ask me, like the once a month policing of the grounds. Be glad you aren't working like some English teachers who have to clean classrooms every day.

I notice that you just managed to complain about cleaning as well though
Seriously mate, cleaning your own classroom makes sense, that's where you work. I have to clean the office and that's fine. What doesn't make sense is having to come in half an hour early once a month to "voluntarily" clean streets 500m from the office.

[shady]

I agree with you on this. I graduated this March and started to work in a small manufacturing company. Being the only foreigner there, everyone have high expectations on me.

They expect me do whatever being told without any questioning. Working condition is hell and I have to be at workplace at least 30mins before official working hours start.

My day begins with cleaning up and I really hate this. We spend at least 1 hour in total every week just for cleaning up.

I get only a 100 days off a year including weekends and 10 days paid leave. Everymonth there is one work day on Saturday and nobody gets any extra pay even though we work 6 days over 40hours for that week.

Pay is low, and I don't expect any bonus considering sales are bad.

I wonder big companies are the same although I know the chances of me joining a big company is pretty limited.

[Wonky]

Thanks for posting this.

I work in the Tokyo branch of a US company (I transferred out here) and my job isn't altgether that different than it was back home.

No way I could cut it in corporate Japan. Unpaid OT? Not allowed to ask questions? There would definitely be an "international incident!"

[91Coupe]

Its sad to see all of these bad stories.

I work for a Japanese company and I love it. Yes the pay kinda sucks, but I make enough to live comfortably and provide for my family.

I worked the same kind of job before moving to japan and I wouldnt say that its any worse than back home. There are some dickheads here, but there are everywhere. As for overtime, I have been asked twice in 4.5 years to stay late to work on something that was an "emergency".

[yu_ominae]

I get only a 100 days off a year including weekends and 10 days paid leave. Everymonth there is one work day on Saturday and nobody gets any extra pay even though we work 6 days over 40hours for that week.

Bloody hell, is that actually legal?? My wife's two cousins work one in retail and one in manufacturing, which are quite inflexible sectors, but even they seem to get better working conditions than you... Change company mate, surely anywhere else will be better than your current one.

[yu_ominae]

Its sad to see all of these bad stories.

I work for a Japanese company and I love it. Yes the pay kinda sucks, but I make enough to live comfortably and provide for my family.

I worked the same kind of job before moving to japan and I wouldnt say that its any worse than back home. There are some dickheads here, but there are everywhere. As for overtime, I have been asked twice in 4.5 years to stay late to work on something that was an "emergency".

Glad to hear that it is possible to find a nice Japanese company to work for as well Can I ask what your job is? Or even which company your work for? They might get lots of job applications if you post the name though...

[shady]

Bloody hell, is that actually legal?? My wife's two cousins work one in retail and one in manufacturing, which are quite inflexible sectors, but even they seem to get better working conditions than you... Change company mate, surely anywhere else will be better than your current one.

Yeah, I was thinking of changing but it's not easy to change jobs these days. I just graduated on March and with less than a year of working experience, I dont think any company would want to hire me.

Furthermore, I graduated from a ___ uni. I get same treatment as all fresh graduates, even though I'm the only gaijin. I felt having the ability to speak fluent ___ is a disadvantage because I'm being treated the same as the rest.

Low pay, no holidays, terrible working conditions.. Looks like I gotta get on with this for at least one year then maybe I will find another job.

Anyway, is there is good sites for gaijin to look for job? I find most requires work experiece and I'm not qualified for that.

[speedboat]

It's fun, fun, fun, fun...come on over!

[yu_ominae]

Yeah, I was thinking of changing but it's not easy to change jobs these days. I just graduated on March and with less than a year of working experience, I dont think any company would want to hire me.

Furthermore, I graduated from a ___ uni. I get same treatment as all fresh graduates, even though I'm the only gaijin. I felt having the ability to speak fluent ___ is a disadvantage because I'm being treated the same as the rest.

Low pay, no holidays, terrible working conditions.. Looks like I gotta get on with this for at least one year then maybe I will find another job.

Anyway, is there is good sites for gaijin to look for job? I find most requires work experiece and I'm not qualified for that.

If there are any good sites to look for gaijin jobs, I would like to know too.
I have tried the gaijinpot jobs, where every job seems to have an average of 500 applications, JAC recruitment, who were helpful for the first three months, R-agent, who are a bunch of 1st class twats, michael page, who had the curtesy of returning my call, but never forwarded me anything, plus a number of other job sites which I can't remember the names of.

Basically, pretty much every single non-teaching job seems to require 3 to 5 years related experience as a minimum. If you have that then good on you. I'm a structural engineer as already stated and it seems a foreigners has near 0 chances in that industry without the right Japanese quals. Engineers be warned.

In your case it might bot be as bad as you think. I have seen that a lot of job adverts consider people with less than x (usually 3) number of "shakaijinkeiken" years as eligible for graduate jobs. I have not been able to try this out, because I don't qualify, but in the UK, as a graduate with 1 year experience you should rank higher than graduates fresh out of uni. Question is: Is it the same over here?

Anyway, I think for graduate jobs your chances should be relatively good. For God's sake though, go to a foreign company this time. They should appreciate you more for being perfectly bilingual as well. I reckon best thing would be applying directly from their website or just write them an email with your CV and see if you get a reply. Have you considered moving abroad by the way?

[Wonky]

If there are any good sites to look for gaijin jobs, I would like to know too.

Honestly I never found any...the only jobs in my industry all seemed to be upper management and the ads placed by recruiters.

I transferred over here with my company, but if I lost this job it's highly unlikely I'd be able to find a similar one.

Are you considering going back to the UK at all or are you now in Japan for the long haul?

[yu_ominae]

Honestly I never found any...the only jobs in my industry all seemed to be upper management and the ads placed by recruiters.

My conclusion as well... and because you are a commodity to them, don't expect much help for entry-level jobs. Same as in the UK or anywhere I guess.

I transferred over here with my company, but if I lost this job it's highly unlikely I'd be able to find a similar one.

Are you considering going back to the UK at all or are you now in Japan for the long haul?

My plan was to look for jobs for 6 months and if I couldn't find anything remotely promising then to cut my losses and head back to Europe. Germany or Belgium or possibly the UK again. Those 6 months ended last month, but... and there's always a good excuse (although I wish there wasn't in this case), in June my doctor told me that my kidneys would fail in at most 6 months. So I will need a kidney transplant and then monitoring etc. so all plans are on hold at the moment.

That's the reason I took on the permanent position with this company even though I already knew what it was like, because I need my health insurance and I can't get that in Germany or Belgium and another job over here looks very unlikely.

I'm actually very grateful to the Japanese people and their government for taking care of me in that respect. Great health-care system

Sorry, that's probably more detail than you were hoping for... I just can't shut up it seems.

[BukkakeUdon]

It's sad to read these posts. I knew about the whole "death by overwork" culture, but as a foreign specialist (as opposed to an assembly-line worker), I would have hoped that companies would cut a little slack.

One of the above comments, regarding vacation, bears on my situation. I was planning on coming over in November to look for work. However, I have no choice but to be in the U.S. from February 25th through March 2nd -- it is NOT OPTIONAL (and it's not just a lark). If a company were to hire me in November/December, having been told about this required leave time during the interviewing stage, would they make a fuss about honoring it when the time came? Would I be likely to get fired as a "problem employee" for taking prearranged, pre-agreed-upon leave?

I have the option of open immigration (no job required) to Hong Kong instead. I've already experienced the joys of Chinese corporate culture and wanted to try something different, but it sounds like Japan would be even worse.

[Wonky]

Would I be likely to get fired as a "problem employee" for taking prearranged, pre-agreed-upon leave?

I have the option of open immigration (no job required) to Hong Kong instead. I've already experienced the joys of Chinese corporate culture and wanted to try something different, but it sounds like Japan would be even worse.

I don't think you would be fired, you'd just get treated like crap/isolated by your co-workers and managers.

What's the corporate culture like in HK?

[Wonky]

My plan was to look for jobs for 6 months and if I couldn't find anything remotely promising then to cut my losses and head back to Europe. Germany or Belgium or possibly the UK again. Those 6 months ended last month, but... and there's always a good excuse (although I wish there wasn't in this case), in June my doctor told me that my kidneys would fail in at most 6 months. So I will need a kidney transplant and then monitoring etc. so all plans are on hold at the moment.

That's the reason I took on the permanent position with this company even though I already knew what it was like, because I need my health insurance and I can't get that in Germany or Belgium and another job over here looks very unlikely.

I'm actually very grateful to the Japanese people and their government for taking care of me in that respect. Great health-care system

Sorry, that's probably more detail than you were hoping for... I just can't shut up it seems.

Don't worry about it. That health factoid there did seem to come from way out in left field, though.

There's more to life than just jobs and health is pretty important! I've been here for about four years now but I'm thinking of going back (to the US) within the next 6 months to a year even though it would most likely mean a cut in pay. I have kids now and I don't think there would be any benefit for them to go go school here. That, plus it's really been going down the toilet here since 3/11...I don't really see the value in sticking around much longer.

[yu_ominae]

Don't worry about it. That health factoid there did seem to come from way out in left field, though.

Indeed. I guess I do that because I feel sorry for myself these days. Note to self: Need to get that under control.

I have kids now and I don't think there would be any benefit for them to go go school here. That, plus it's really been going down the toilet here since 3/11...I don't really see the value in sticking around much longer.

100% with you on that I have a son too and I wouldn't want him going to a Japanese school. And the earthquake/tsunami has just given the Japanese government another excuse not to focus on much needed reforms. They seem to talk about it a lot on Takeshi's show, but never actually do anything concrete.

[91Coupe]

Glad to hear that it is possible to find a nice Japanese company to work for as well Can I ask what your job is? Or even which company your work for? They might get lots of job applications if you post the name though...

Electronic engineer and no.

[yu_ominae]

One of the above comments, regarding vacation, bears on my situation. I was planning on coming over in November to look for work. However, I have no choice but to be in the U.S. from February 25th through March 2nd -- it is NOT OPTIONAL (and it's not just a lark). If a company were to hire me in November/December, having been told about this required leave time during the interviewing stage, would they make a fuss about honoring it when the time came? Would I be likely to get fired as a "problem employee" for taking prearranged, pre-agreed-upon leave?

It all depends on the company... Try to get a foreign company, a position where your direct superior is also foreign. Should be more understanding of your wanting to take leave.

[TJrandom]

...no choice but to be in the U.S. from February 25th through March 2nd -- it is NOT OPTIONAL (and it's not just a lark). If a company were to hire me in November/December, having been told about this required leave time during the interviewing stage, would they make a fuss about honoring it when the time came? Would I be likely to get fired as a "problem employee" for taking prearranged, pre-agreed-upon leave?

...

Not likely to get fired - but you might show your good intentions by offering to work instead on weekends, or over goldenweek, etc. Whether they take you up on this doesn't matter - but the offer just might.

[kyouki]

This has been my experience working here. Long hours, nothing gets done until the last hour of the day, people CONSTANTLY making mistakes because they are not allowed to ask questions, just "ok, I understand!"

The worst thing is the total inconsideration towards coworkers. Japanese go on and on about meiwaku this and meiwaku that, but in all my experience working in companies I have never been meiwaku'd so hard as in Japan. 7:00p at night, getting ready to go and I get, "Oh? You're leaving now? I have this thing I wanted you to do, has to be done by tonight." Of course the guy has been sitting on the work all day. Or how many times have I been called on my lunchbreak on MY PERSONAL CELL PHONE EVEN WHEN I AM OUT EATING LUNCH to go move ____ing boxes from room A to room B. The answer is "one time" because I replied, "sure, I'll do it at 1:00p when my lunch is over" and the guy couldn't wait.

The conditions many Japanese men are working under are perfect for brainwashing. Read up on what cults do to brainwash people, it's eerily similar. Sleep deprivation, public humiliation. They even do the good cop/bad cop thing. Your boss treats you like absolute ____ during the day, then you go out to drink and it's all buddy-buddy and "I have to act like that at work because I'm your boss but we're cool don't worry!"

Working at a Japanese company is a constant battle. They want to take total and complete advantage of you. You have to fight for what you can, otherwise you'll end up like those ____ing zombies who never see their families, have no hobbies, and can't hold a conversation on any topic other than how tired they are, how busy they are, etc.

[yukon988]

Its sad to see all of these bad stories.

I work for a Japanese company and I love it. Yes the pay kinda sucks, but I make enough to live comfortably and provide for my family.

I worked the same kind of job before moving to japan and I wouldnt say that its any worse than back home. There are some dickheads here, but there are everywhere. As for overtime, I have been asked twice in 4.5 years to stay late to work on something that was an "emergency".

I think my experience as an engineer in Japan has been closer to yours than the OP's. My biggest complaints are the salary (compared to the US) and productivity of most of my co-workers. They get the job done (with overtime) but the pace they work at is excruciatingly slow. However, the job itself is very interesting and I have made better friends with my co-workers here than I ever did with co-workers in the US. All in all, I'm pretty happy being an engineer here.

Even though I am not happy with my salary, I think it is much better than what I would make as an English Teacher. I often tell people that I make 1/2 what I made in the US because it feels that way but every year, when I file my US income taxes, I am forced to realized my salary is closer to 80% of what I was making in the US. After 4 years, earning 20% less hurts but it doesn't hurt as much as it would to start teaching English. That would be well over a 50% pay cut. And I don't think I would be a very good English teacher.

Holidays here are awesome compared to the US. So many holidays almost every month and a decent amount of paid vacation. When I take a vacation to go back to the US every summer, some people do complain that I am taking more days off in a row than most people and I like to take vacation before or after Obon because of the prices of plane tickets, but my direct bosses have always been understanding. Actually, at my company, the maximum consecutive days off for vacation is 10 days. Considering going to the US, total travel time is typically 4 days, for the most part, they have been understanding when I take a full 2 weeks to go to the US. (One dickhead wasn't but my boss told me not to worry about it and I haven't)

When I was hired 4 years ago, I really didn't know any Japanese. I have picked quite a bit up since then. Now, technical discussions are not so bad. The technical jargon is repeated over and over so its hard not to pick it up. Also, when having technical discussions, my co-workers tend to speak very clearly. Honestly, I have more trouble with everyday conversation now than technical discussions. For getting a job, I think there is a trade-off between Japanese ability and experience. If you have enough experience, you don't need Japanese ability -- at least I didn't.

I have never been asked to come in early to clean the streets. Are you serious? What's the reason? That sounds like something I would say "no thanks" too. We often have to help with certain types of cleaning (emptying garbage cans, helping with clean room suit cleaning, sweeping the lab, etc.) but its always during working hours and only takes 5 to 10 minutes anyway. What do you mean about not being allowed to use the air conditioning? Is that related to the power shortage going on this summer?

Maybe I got lucky to get the job I got -- maybe 91coupe got lucky to get his job -- maybe you were unlucky. I don't know but I am happy being an engineer here.

[shady]

If there are any good sites to look for gaijin jobs, I would like to know too.
I have tried the gaijinpot jobs, where every job seems to have an average of 500 applications, JAC recruitment, who were helpful for the first three months, R-agent, who are a bunch of 1st class twats, michael page, who had the curtesy of returning my call, but never forwarded me anything, plus a number of other job sites which I can't remember the names of.

Basically, pretty much every single non-teaching job seems to require 3 to 5 years related experience as a minimum. If you have that then good on you. I'm a structural engineer as already stated and it seems a foreigners has near 0 chances in that industry without the right Japanese quals. Engineers be warned.

In your case it might bot be as bad as you think. I have seen that a lot of job adverts consider people with less than x (usually 3) number of "shakaijinkeiken" years as eligible for graduate jobs. I have not been able to try this out, because I don't qualify, but in the UK, as a graduate with 1 year experience you should rank higher than graduates fresh out of uni. Question is: Is it the same over here?

Anyway, I think for graduate jobs your chances should be relatively good. For God's sake though, go to a foreign company this time. They should appreciate you more for being perfectly bilingual as well. I reckon best thing would be applying directly from their website or just write them an email with your CV and see if you get a reply. Have you considered moving abroad by the way?

I'm graduated with electrical and electronics engineering degree so my choices are pretty limited. I've done some research and resigning within the 1st is not a good thing and will probably make bad impression in my next job interview. I've been thinking of working abroad or going back to my country. With a japanese university degree, my choices of job is pretty limited outside japan? I plan to do MBA but work experience is required. World economy is doing bad at the moment so I don't think the chances are higher abroad? Thanks for the advice.

This has been my experience working here. Long hours, nothing gets done until the last hour of the day, people CONSTANTLY making mistakes because they are not allowed to ask questions, just "ok, I understand!"

The worst thing is the total inconsideration towards coworkers. Japanese go on and on about meiwaku this and meiwaku that, but in all my experience working in companies I have never been meiwaku'd so hard as in Japan. 7:00p at night, getting ready to go and I get, "Oh? You're leaving now? I have this thing I wanted you to do, has to be done by tonight." Of course the guy has been sitting on the work all day. Or how many times have I been called on my lunchbreak on MY PERSONAL CELL PHONE EVEN WHEN I AM OUT EATING LUNCH to go move ____ing boxes from room A to room B. The answer is "one time" because I replied, "sure, I'll do it at 1:00p when my lunch is over" and the guy couldn't wait.

The conditions many Japanese men are working under are perfect for brainwashing. Read up on what cults do to brainwash people, it's eerily similar. Sleep deprivation, public humiliation. They even do the good cop/bad cop thing. Your boss treats you like absolute ____ during the day, then you go out to drink and it's all buddy-buddy and "I have to act like that at work because I'm your boss but we're cool don't worry!"

Working at a Japanese company is a constant battle. They want to take total and complete advantage of you. You have to fight for what you can, otherwise you'll end up like those ____ing zombies who never see their families, have no hobbies, and can't hold a conversation on any topic other than how tired they are, how busy they are, etc.

I've got to agree with you even though I have only 5 months of experience. I just got to do whatever being told, no chance to voice out my opinion and 'Hai' for everything.

For example, I got to come every morning to do cleaning up work. I was told to finish the cleaning by a certain time. Even though I come every morning to clean up and finishes it before the time, seniors told me to come earlier and start cleaning earlier. I argued with them saying I did cleaning and finishes before the time told but they said because you are new, just follow order and don't question.

Since cleaning is done before official work time, I actually wonder if I have the right not to do cleaning since its not part of work time. I just don't like the idea that workers have to act in workplace, everything is so unnatural. Do I have to act to show commitment to the company?

[yu_ominae]

I think my experience as an engineer in Japan has been closer to yours than the OP's. My biggest complaints are the salary (compared to the US) and productivity of most of my co-workers. They get the job done (with overtime) but the pace they work at is excruciatingly slow. However, the job itself is very interesting and I have made better friends with my co-workers here than I ever did with co-workers in the US. All in all, I'm pretty happy being an engineer here.

Thanks for posting, it's really good to hear that it is possible to like working at a Japanese company
I wonder if there is any way to determine whether a company is going to be good or bad at interview time? What kind of engineering do you do by the way?

I have never been asked to come in early to clean the streets. Are you serious? What's the reason? That sounds like something I would say "no thanks" too. We often have to help with certain types of cleaning (emptying garbage cans, helping with clean room suit cleaning, sweeping the lab, etc.) but its always during working hours and only takes 5 to 10 minutes anyway. What do you mean about not being allowed to use the air conditioning? Is that related to the power shortage going on this summer?

Well, cleaning the streets I am still not entirely sure what it is good for. I have asked my coworkers and mainly got the reply that it is just something that the employees of the company do (not in my contract though...). A few people thought that the company gets to have its name on a board somewhere in city hall for having its employees do community service. The consensus is that it is voluntary, hence outside of working hours, but it's really compulsory. Same sort of experience as Shady here for me, as last month I got told to make sure I got to the office 5 minutes before cleaning starts instead of just on time. If it rains in the morning then it has to be done at lunch time or on the next day when it doesn't rain. For me it's one of these "wtf?" things.

The switching off of the lights and air conditioning , as far as I understand is for the company to get green kudos: No lights on outside of working hours or during lunch time (although they can be on for over time) and air conditioning can only be on when temperature reaches above 30C and then only down to 28C. That last bit is quite strange to me because thermal comfort is a subjective thing and is not governed by a set value. It also depends on relative humidity.

There is other stuff like that as well in the form of a list that has to be filled out every month. Where people get points for doing stuff like not commuting to work by car, not taking plastic bags in convenience stores, not using throwaway chopsticks etc. during work time. I still have to figure out what happens with those points though as nobody seems to know. Probably more names on boards

Maybe I'm just not Japanese enough to appreciate these things as I should, but seriously, voluntary compulsory ecology and community service? Do you guys have this kind of stuff at work as well?

[kyouki]

At my previous company we all had to take turns cleaning the building. We only had to clean outside once a week- Saturday morning. :/

My job before that, the landlord hired someone to clean for us. That place was pretty laid-back though. Decent pay, under 5 hours of overtime a week.

At the place before that, we had to clean on Friday nights after work. Total bullshit.

It's brainwashing, is what it is:

me: "This sucks, last thing I want to do on Saturday morning is clean floors."
coworker: "No way, Saturday morning is the BEST time to be cleaning!"
me: "Maybe, but not the best day to clean at work..."
coworker: "I disagree! If we weren't being made to work Saturday morning, we'd all just be sleeping late!"

[yukon988]

Thanks for posting, it's really good to hear that it is possible to like working at a Japanese company
I wonder if there is any way to determine whether a company is going to be good or bad at interview time? What kind of engineering do you do by the way?

My education is Electrical Engineering. My current job requires knowledge of Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical engineering. We make equipment for manufacturing semiconductors.

I am not defending it but from what you describe, I wonder if your company is getting a government grant for some "green" project. My company is and once they were given the grant, we were suddenly bombarded with training on global warming and how to properly throw away aluminum cans and pet bottles (remove the tabs and caps) to save the polar bears from falling into the ocean... Luckily, my co-workers and managers seem to take it as seriously as I do but as long as we do the training, we get the money. So we do it.

Also, regarding the AC, because of the shortage of electricity this year from the nuclear plants being shut down, we are required by the local government to not set the temperature below 28C. I don't know but it may not be your company's policy requiring that -- it may be your local government's policy. The temperature thing is very uncomfortable this year. I hope they have more power on line by next summer.

One more thing -- are you the low man on the totem pole? Every once in awhile, my company asks for "volunteers" to do sh!t work like cleaning the parking lot. My boss knows no one will volunteer so he always appoints the newest guy to "volunteer" (sometimes the newest 2 guys). The young guys always seem to take it in stride (although sometimes I see their eyes roll) knowing that some day, they will no longer be on the bottom.

[yu_ominae]

My education is Electrical Engineering. My current job requires knowledge of Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical engineering. We make equipment for manufacturing semiconductors.

I am not defending it but from what you describe, I wonder if your company is getting a government grant for some "green" project. My company is and once they were given the grant, we were suddenly bombarded with training on global warming and how to properly throw away aluminum cans and pet bottles (remove the tabs and caps) to save the polar bears from falling into the ocean... Luckily, my co-workers and managers seem to take it as seriously as I do but as long as we do the training, we get the money. So we do it.

Also, regarding the AC, because of the shortage of electricity this year from the nuclear plants being shut down, we are required by the local government to not set the temperature below 28C. I don't know but it may not be your company's policy requiring that -- it may be your local government's policy. The temperature thing is very uncomfortable this year. I hope they have more power on line by next summer.

One more thing -- are you the low man on the totem pole? Every once in awhile, my company asks for "volunteers" to do sh!t work like cleaning the parking lot. My boss knows no one will volunteer so he always appoints the newest guy to "volunteer" (sometimes the newest 2 guys). The young guys always seem to take it in stride (although sometimes I see their eyes roll) knowing that some day, they will no longer be on the bottom.

hmmm, good question. Cleaning is voluntary compulsory for everybody, so that's not a picking thing. I've seen that "volunteer to do ____ things" happen before, but I've usually been spared because I have like a mysterious force field around me protecting me from stuff like that

The AC and lighting might be down to local regulations because they were doing that before 3/11. I haven't visited any other offices in Gifu though so I don't know... Maybe it's a big social experiment to see how much people will take before they snap?

Again, for the green stuff, I don't know, because nobody has been able to tell me why, only that it has to be done every month. The day is nearly come where more spreadsheets will have to be filled and green points will have to be counted. I might not fill it out this time and see what they say... and then, oh blasphemy!, I might do the unthinkable and ASK...

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that because of ISO9001 or some other ISO standard I don't know. My company seems to be obsessed by ISO standards to the point where you can't fart if it's not by the guidelines of an ISO standard. I find that it really obstructs work and stifles innovation, because everything new you propose first has to be evaluated as per whether or not it fits into existing ISO rules. Is that just my company?

You in Tokyo? It must have been absolute hell with the power shortages and stuff...? Did you have to work extra shifts to cope with the rolling blackouts?

[yukon988]

hmmm, good question. Cleaning is voluntary compulsory for everybody, so that's not a picking thing. I've seen that "volunteer to do ____ things" happen before, but I've usually been spared because I have like a mysterious force field around me protecting me from stuff like that

The AC and lighting might be down to local regulations because they were doing that before 3/11. I haven't visited any other offices in Gifu though so I don't know... Maybe it's a big social experiment to see how much people will take before they snap?

Again, for the green stuff, I don't know, because nobody has been able to tell me why, only that it has to be done every month. The day is nearly come where more spreadsheets will have to be filled and green points will have to be counted. I might not fill it out this time and see what they say... and then, oh blasphemy!, I might do the unthinkable and ASK...

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that because of ISO9001 or some other ISO standard I don't know. My company seems to be obsessed by ISO standards to the point where you can't fart if it's not by the guidelines of an ISO standard. I find that it really obstructs work and stifles innovation, because everything new you propose first has to be evaluated as per whether or not it fits into existing ISO rules. Is that just my company?

You in Tokyo? It must have been absolute hell with the power shortages and stuff...? Did you have to work extra shifts to cope with the rolling blackouts?

Last year I was one of 5 people that cleaned one of our labs every other Friday (3 people one week, 2 the next) but it literally took 10 minutes and we did it during working hours so it was no big deal. Basically one of my co-workers complained that one of the janitors "cleaned up" something he was working on so our boss kicked them out and told us to keep the lab clean. But I've never been asked to clean the street. And the parking lot thing I was talking about is done like twice a year.

It might be ISO9001. We have to jump through hoops for ISO9001 too but the managers are taking most of the burden for it. No one -- all the way to the top -- likes it but the fact is, many companies that we would like to have as customers have as a requirement that their suppliers be ISO9001 compliant. Especially American customers.

Although I officially work in Oita, I am temporarily in Aomori. So far, there have been no black-outs and from what I gather, its been cooler than normal this summer here. My co-workers in Oita are having a tougher time -- its been as hot as normal there. But no black-outs there either.

[BukkakeUdon]

Not likely to get fired - but you might show your good intentions by offering to work instead on weekends, or over goldenweek, etc. Whether they take you up on this doesn't matter - but the offer just might.

Yeah, like I'm not already going to have to do that!

But, thanks. Maybe it'll help. Sigh. Compared to what's going on in my current living situation in the U.S., it's almost appealing.

[GeorgefromBG]

Very interesting read mates. Good to know as an engineer looking for job in Japan. Be careful with companies or not look for engineering job at all...