Laws regarding taking photos in public places - can shop/stage staff prohibit it?

[purple]

Yodobashi Camera in Akihabara today, a small stage was set up outside on the street. A few idols were singing crappy J-pop songs and a 100-strong otagei crowd were dancing, jumping, whooping and going mad. Of course this was worth a photo.

There was a small handwritten sign held up by one Yodobashi staff member saying "No photo", which I assumed was referring to the idols. I wanted to take some shots of the crowd so pulled out my camera but was almost instantly approached by another staff member telling me "No photos". When I explained I wasn't taking photos of the idols, just the crowd (members of the public standing on a public street cordoned-off only by a rope from the rest of the footpath) he wouldn't have any of it. Although he didn't grab me or the camera he stood in front of me and wouldn't get out of the way until I put my camera away.

I've had similar requests from staff/roadies/whoever they are in front of Shibuya 109 when there are public advertising campaigns and performances etc.

Does anyone know the laws in Japan in such situations? Are people actually within their rights to prohibit the taking of photos in such public places, or should I simply give a polite refusal to their requests and continue to snap away?

[kurogane]

A) Only turds take photographs

B) Fire Away. But first, hit them when they get obstructive like that. No non-Japanese need take physical crap from a Pearl Harbourer. Just put your foot behind his ankle, and push.


We used to torture the Takenoko like that. And we were too cheap to buy film.

[Guru]

If it is in a public place, just take as many photos as you like. Usually in Japan, people post signs which have no legal power at all. I am sure your counterparties do not have any legal recourse against you if you go ahead taking pictures. I tune out those signs and go about my business as long as I don't get caught / charged / fined by police.

[hml]

I would do my best to take a photo just to ____ the guy off - for the principle.

I was checking out shops in an outdoor shopping arcade when this tv crew came by with a couple comedians. They told me to move out of the way (the comedians were walking my direction as the cameras backed towards me) I was more curious about what was going on to be put off about having to stop my own activities.

Next time, I'm jumping in front of the camera, or going behind the comedians and mooning them.

[NorthByNorthwest]

I was taking a friend visiting Japan for the first time around Akihabara during a weeknight. He spotted some of those maid cafe chicks outside Donki, handed me his camera, and asked if he could take his photo with them. Unsurprisingly, they refused and walked back to me to collect his camera. He was very happy to discover that I had already taken a few candid shots.

[purple]

Legally taking pictures of people without permission can be regarded as an invasion of privacy and is a suable offense (if the pictures are used without permission).
See 肖像権侵害 and プライバシー保護. A group and private business has every right to protect themselves and ask you not to photograph them or their products. What they are probably trying to do is to stop the commercial use or distribution of such photos in the media.

That would make sense if they represent a product or performer, but I made it very clear I wasn't taking photos of the performers, that I was taking photos of members of the public in a public place. The Yodobashi guys obviously can't claim that stopping me taking photos (even I was intending to use such pictures commercially) was in any way protecting themselves or their company or products.

The other fundamental issue is whether anyone has a right to privacy (in terms of potentially being photographed) if they're out in a public place. I would argue that they don't. We're being photographed by CCTV all the time in public, in trains, in shops, pretty much everywhere we go. So on what basis can anyone argue that their privacy is being invaded if someone takes a photo?

Are paparazzi illegal in Japan? If not then surely my taking crowd photos was totally legal. And so too would be my taking shots of the idols. Out in public.

[jron]

Legally taking pictures of people without permission can be regarded as an invasion of privacy and is a suable offense (if the pictures are used without permission).
See 肖像権侵害 and プライバシー保護. A group and private business has every right to protect themselves and ask you not to photograph them or their products. What they are probably trying to do is to stop the commercial use or distribution of such photos in the media.

I am curious about this also.
If they are in a PUBLIC setting on PUBLIC property. What is the law..?
Individuals in the crowd vs. performers on a (public) stage.
Time for some research.. :-P

In the US taking pictures of almost anything in a PUBLIC place is legal.
It is more about what you DO with those pictures once you have them that can cause problems.

[Andun]

That would make sense if they represent a product or performer, but I made it very clear I wasn't taking photos of the performers, that I was taking photos of members of the public in a public place. The Yodobashi guys obviously can't claim that stopping me taking photos (even I was intending to use such pictures commercially) was in any way protecting themselves or their company or products.

The other fundamental issue is whether anyone has a right to privacy (in terms of potentially being photographed) if they're out in a public place. I would argue that they don't. We're being photographed by CCTV all the time in public, in trains, in shops, pretty much everywhere we go. So on what basis can anyone argue that their privacy is being invaded if someone takes a photo?

Are paparazzi illegal in Japan? If not then surely my taking crowd photos was totally legal. And so too would be my taking shots of the idols. Out in public.

You are basically right:

さらに、公共の場所で不特定多数の人物を撮影する場合 は、肖像権の侵害は基本的に認められない。
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/肖像権#.E6...89.B1.E3.81.84

"In the case of taking pictures in a public place where there are many people, a claim to invasion of privacy through having your picture taken is fundamentally not accepted"
So you could have just ignored the staff.

However individuals are protected under the following law:
Which bascially states that the individual has the right not to have pictures taken of themselves, be drawn or have those made public without permission.

人格権

被写体としての権利でその被写体自身、もしくは所有者 の許可なく撮影、描写、公開されない権利。すべての人 に認められる。みだりに自分の姿を公開されて恥ずかし い思いをしたり、つけ回されたりする恐れなどから保護 するというもの。犯罪の関係者（被害者・加害者・両者 の周囲の人々）などが侵害されて問題となることが多い 。

[hennagaijin]

Undun is correct... it is a civil law and they can sue you if they wish.. (hard to imagine that they would.. but it is why Japanese TV is full of ridiculous mosaic..)

See it direct from the Ministry of Justice:

http://www.englishfriendlyjapan.com/...aw-translation

[jron]

Undun is correct... it is a civil law and they can sue you if they wish.. (hard to imagine that they would.. but it is why Japanese TV is full of ridiculous mosaic..)

See it direct from the Ministry of Justice:

http://www.englishfriendlyjapan.com/...aw-translation

lol.. link is to a map to their office... :-P

[hennagaijin]

lol.. link is to a map to their office... :-P

Under the map is this:

"Click here for the online law translation website."

lol

[jron]

Undun is correct... it is a civil law and they can sue you if they wish.. (hard to imagine that they would.. but it is why Japanese TV is full of ridiculous mosaic..)

See it direct from the Ministry of Justice:

http://www.englishfriendlyjapan.com/...aw-translation

looking for it.. BUT.. I have to say...
They may have a right to prevent you from taking pictures of the celebrity...
However what right do they have to prevent you from taking pictures of the crowd in a public place?
I think at the latter point they are clearly overstepping bounds for some security person to prevent you from taking any pictures at all of people whom they do NOT represent..

[purple]

Thanks for the links and opinions. Next time I'll ignore the ba5tard5 when they tell me to stop.

[speedboat]

I would do my best to take a photo just to ____ the guy off - for the principle.

Well done, you are a dic_head.

[hml]

Well done, you are a dic_head.

It's spelled dick head, dick head.

[Wonky]

I think this is the kind of pic you wanted. I took this in Akihabara in 2007.

[hml]

I think this is the kind of pic you wanted. I took this in Akihabara in 2007.

You and at least 5 others. This chick appears to be posing for photos, but even those who are not are subject to people taking photos as long as it's in a public place.

[Wonky]

You and at least 5 others. This chick appears to be posing for photos, but even those who are not are subject to people taking photos as long as it's in a public place.

I was taking a pic of the dorks with cameras, not the girl.

This was not a performance associated with a store. These girls used to just do this pathetic idol thing on the street on their own. I don't think this is allowed any more.

[Sterling]

Has anyone been on the other side of the camera where someone (often Japanese) tries to take a photo of you - or for those of you who are married with a family ... your kids - most likely for your stunning gaijin looks?

Two years ago, I was out at Fuji Highland Park with a friend and his family when we spotted a creepy Japanese guy taking photos of my friend's 4 and 6 year old children. Knowing how they sometimes dash off when confronted, I came up from behind him while my friend approached him from the front. When he turned around, he ran right into me. There were tons of photos of other kids on his (digital) camera. We erased everything and even checked his pockets for hidden cards. We noticed park security had come up but instead of stepping in, they watched quietly instead. If you asked why we erased all his ____ and did not turn him in to the police - the reason was two-fold. We had no faith in the cops and we did not wish to spend the rest of the weekend filing some stupid report ruining it for the kids.

[hml]

I was taking a pic of the dorks with cameras, not the girl.

That's quite the hobby you got there!

This was not a performance associated with a store. These girls used to just do this pathetic idol thing on the street on their own. I don't think this is allowed any more.

Whaddya mean? What would they do, set up a stage or something? I see chicks dressed like that every now and then (and some weirder stuff too!) but no big deal.

Has anyone been on the other side of the camera where someone (often Japanese) tries to take a photo of you - or for those of you who are married with a family ... your kids - most likely for your stunning gaijin looks?

Duh! All the time!

Two years ago, I was out at Fuji Highland Park with a friend and his family when we spotted a creepy Japanese guy taking photos of my friend's 4 and 6 year old children. Knowing how they sometimes dash off when confronted, I came up from behind him while my friend approached him from behind. When he turned around, he ran right into me. There were tons of photos of other kids on his (digital) camera. We erased everything and even checked his pockets for hidden cards. We noticed park security had come up but instead of stepping in, they watched quietly instead. If you asked why we erased all his ____ and did not turn him in to the police - the reason was two-fold. We had no faith in the cops and we did not wish to spend the rest of the weekend filing some stupid report ruining it for the kids.

I suppose I might do the same as you in the same situation, but that man's stalking foreigners or foreign children is not quite the same thing as someone happening upon something that is out of the ordinary (for them) and wants to take a photo or two.

And I must agree with your reasoning about not going to the police. Even if they weren't such sphincter holes, there duties would require them to do all the paperwork.

...I came up from behind him while my friend approached him from behind.

your friend approach the guy from the front, right? It would have been fun to have a third friend video tape the whole thing!

[Wonky]

Has anyone been on the other side of the camera where someone (often Japanese) tries to take a photo of you - or for those of you who are married with a family ... your kids - most likely for your stunning gaijin looks?

Two years ago, I was out at Fuji Highland Park with a friend and his family when we spotted a creepy Japanese guy taking photos of my friend's 4 and 6 year old children. Knowing how they sometimes dash off when confronted, I came up from behind him while my friend approached him from behind. When he turned around, he ran right into me. There were tons of photos of other kids on his (digital) camera. We erased everything and even checked his pockets for hidden cards. We noticed park security had come up but instead of stepping in, they watched quietly instead. If you asked why we erased all his ____ and did not turn him in to the police - the reason was two-fold. We had no faith in the cops and we did not wish to spend the rest of the weekend filing some stupid report ruining it for the kids.

Um...this doesn't sound like it was because the kids were gaijin...just sayin'...

[Wonky]

Whaddya mean? What would they do, set up a stage or something? I see chicks dressed like that every now and then (and some weirder stuff too!) but no big deal.

I think they had mikes and small speakers/amps set up on the sidewalk. Like I said I heard this practice has been banned, I think they have clubs for this kind of thing now.

[hml]

I think they had mikes and small speakers/amps set up on the sidewalk. Like I said I heard this practice has been banned, I think they have clubs for this kind of thing now.

That's surprising. You see the buskers out all the time with amps and stuff.

[Wonky]

That's surprising. You see the buskers out all the time with amps and stuff.

I think this is a bit different than busking. I found an article about the ban.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/200...kihabara-japan

And it used to be where you came to see your favourite idol – the young singers who'd perform in Akihabara for free, hoping for a big break. But no longer. Last year, one particularly attention-starved aspirant climbed a lamppost, hitched up her dress and flashed her fans, then led them about like the Pied Piper. Soon afterwards, street performances were banned.

[Sterling]

Um...this doesn't sound like it was because the kids were gaijin...just sayin'...

My friend is married to a Japanese - so the kids stand out as 'haafu's. Even if they were full-blooded Japanese, it wouldn't make the creepy photographer's actions right. He was targeting kids - some photos were upskirts and pervy stuff like that.

[hml]

MEven if they were full-blooded Japanese, it would make the creepy photographer's actions right.

Do you want to clarify?

[Guru]

That's surprising. You see the buskers out all the time with amps and stuff.

That reminds me of crooks and losers who could not work in the private sector, blaring out their personal ramblings in public during the election campaigns. Especially the ones who drive around make me annoyed like there is no tomorrow.

[cucashopboy]

Has anyone been on the other side of the camera where someone (often Japanese) tries to take a photo of you gaijin looks?

I was once by myself in Kinugawa Onsen in Tochigi prefecture. They have a free footbath at the station. I was enjoying having my feet warmed up while chatting to a couple of personable young women from Kanagawa prefecture when a man sat a few metres in front of us with a Yomiuri Shimbun armband on his jacket started snapping away at us, perhaps he took ten or twenty photos. Once the women left, I went up to him and asked him why he was taking photos of me without permission. He pointed to his armband as if that explained everything. I stood over him and asked him to delete them all, saying that it was rude to take photos without permission, which he did.
Ironically, my wife reads the paper and if he had asked nicely, I would have been happy to oblige - she would have laughed at a photo of her husband chatting to a couple of young woman, she's quite tolerant like that.

[Wonky]

My friend is married to a Japanese - so the kids stand out as 'haafu's. Even if they were full-blooded Japanese, it would make the creepy photographer's actions right. He was targeting kids - some photos were upskirts and pervy stuff like that.

Sounds like this "photographer" was a total perv taking pics of any kids he saw. I don't think he cared their ethnic background. I would've turned the guy in. Sounds like the kind of scum that shares stuff like this online.

[Sterling]

Do you want to clarify?

Ah, sh1t. I keep entering typos.

I meant to indicate: "... My friend is married to a Japanese - so the kids stand out as 'haafu's. Even if they were full-blooded Japanese, it wouldn't make the creepy photographer's actions right. He was targeting kids - some photos were upskirts and pervy stuff like that."

[hml]

Ah, sh1t. I keep entering typos.

I meant to indicate: "... My friend is married to a Japanese - so the kids stand out as 'haafu's. Even if they were full-blooded Japanese, it wouldn't make the creepy photographer's actions right. He was targeting kids - some photos were upskirts and pervy stuff like that."

hahaha yah, I was pretty sure there was a typo in there somewhere!

[Jakebullet]

It only becomes a problem if you publicly display the pictures, Taking them is not a problem in a public place.
If for private use, no problem! Sheesh.
Just as Andun says

You are basically right:

However individuals are protected under the following law:
Which bascially states that the individual has the right not to have pictures taken of themselves, be drawn or have those made public without permission.

[hml]

So from all that we learn...

we can take photos of the nymphoids in their maid outfits and disregard the stage staff's protests UNLESS the subject of our photos tells us that he/she doesn't want his/her photo taken.

That's what I take away from this.

I feel like a better person.

[Effected After]

I have a few stories like this. I've run into tv filming on the street before, and taken pictures. They try to stop you, and I ask them very clearly if they own the property. Usually the answer is that they have a permit to film there. To which I reply that it is a public space, and if they don't want pictures taken, they should film in a private area, and I keep snapping photos. They try to get in the way, but I've only ever been in the situation once or twice when they have anyone who is tall enough to block me from taking photos.

A few months ago, I was watching a fashion show that said very clearly 'no photos'. This was outside on the streets of Yokohama. I started taking video. They came up and told me to stop. I looked at the guy and aggressively told him to fuck off in English. He did, then sent someone else over, to which I replied the same. I took as much video as I felt, then watched the rest of the show afterwards, and not a thing happened.

[YokohamaTommy]

crappy J-pop songs

Isn't that like, an oxymoron, man?

[iago]

Isn't that like, an oxymoron, man?

I think you mean tautology.

[shonanfred]

I have a few stories like this. I've run into tv filming on the street before, and taken pictures. They try to stop you, and I ask them very clearly if they own the property. Usually the answer is that they have a permit to film there. To which I reply that it is a public space, and if they don't want pictures taken, they should film in a private area, and I keep snapping photos. They try to get in the way, but I've only ever been in the situation once or twice when they have anyone who is tall enough to block me from taking photos.

A few months ago, I was watching a fashion show that said very clearly 'no photos'. This was outside on the streets of Yokohama. I started taking video. They came up and told me to stop. I looked at the guy and aggressively told him to fuck off in English. He did, then sent someone else over, to which I replied the same. I took as much video as I felt, then watched the rest of the show afterwards, and not a thing happened.

That was you?
Fred

[ttokyo]

Yodobashi Camera in Akihabara today, a small stage was set up outside on the street. A few idols were singing crappy J-pop songs and a 100-strong otagei crowd were dancing, jumping, whooping and going mad. Of course this was worth a photo.

There was a small handwritten sign held up by one Yodobashi staff member saying "No photo", which I assumed was referring to the idols. I wanted to take some shots of the crowd so pulled out my camera but was almost instantly approached by another staff member telling me "No photos". When I explained I wasn't taking photos of the idols, just the crowd (members of the public standing on a public street cordoned-off only by a rope from the rest of the footpath) he wouldn't have any of it. Although he didn't grab me or the camera he stood in front of me and wouldn't get out of the way until I put my camera away.

Does anyone know the laws in Japan in such situations? Are people actually within their rights to prohibit the taking of photos in such public places, or should I simply give a polite refusal to their requests and continue to snap away?

+ It's possible that Yodobashi's contract with the 'idols' even included the clause that they will ensure that no pictures are taken.
+ If you are on Yodobashi's property, they can do whatever they want.
+ If you are on public property, they have no right to do anything, and 'asking you' and 'standing in your way' is probably the only way. Reminds me of the parking attendants who stop street traffic to let cars out from a gas station or supermarket. Also these guys have no right to tweak the traffic rules and I sometimes feel urged to run them over...

[hml]

So on the way to work today, a 4x4 Bentz blows through a stop sign, and I manage to hit the brakes to avoid it - until at the last moment, I thought "feck it. I'm tired of these jerks doing this sh!t" and released pressure on the brakes just enough to give the Bentz a thump. The guy stops, looks at me, sneers and takes off. I thought, okay, I can play this game and followed. I thought I was in for a chase and I know he can't out run me in the city, but turns out he was practically already at his destination.

I catch up to him and stand in front of him with my bicycle and call 110. Cops come and we have a 30 minute shake down. Well, this guy was a typical you-foreigners-shouldn't-be-in-Japan twit and was pretty pissed, thinking I was trying to get money from him and claiming that he had stopped and grabbing another shop owner and telling him what "happened" so he could back him up when the cops came. I just stood there saying nothing except "Yes" when he asked if I spoke Japanese. Oh, and I took several photos and shot a lot of video of the guy before and after the police arrived.

In the end, the cops told me I had to erase it because it "wasn't fair" that I had photos of the guy's car and he had none of mine. I argued back for a bit, but the truth was I had to get to work. So I played with the cops a bit more while my phone was emailing the photos/video to my hotmail account and *then* I showed the cops me deleting everything on the phone. SUCKAS!!!

One cop was fairly adamant that I was legally required to delete the photos but he couldn't quote the law or tell me what law it was.

They also tried to get me to exchange name and phone number with the guy, but I said no. They said I had to. I said I didn't. Back and forth. Finally they admitted that I was not legally bound to do it and they could not force me. They were "concerned" that if I needed to contact the guy about bike repairs or injuries that I wouldn't know how to get a hold of him, but I explained that we were standing in front of the guy's restaurant and I had made a note of his license plate (anyone can get owner info from license plate no.) so I would have no difficulty "getting a hold of him" should I need to.

I explained that similar incidents have happened before, and I didn't mind exchanging contact information, but this guy was acting like an azzhole so I didn't want to do it.

So, in conclusion, the cops say IT AIN'T FAIR! b*stards. Why did I even call them...

If anyone wants a fun experience at a gaijin-hating restaurant, let me know and I'll point you in the right direction!

[Andun]

..............