160,000 yen per month for a foreign worker

[ttokyo]

[QUOTE=wako;1212038]
Salary is like this.

BASIC: 160,000Yen (About 88,000PHP)
Deduction for;
All benefit + Overseas insurance.
Share apartment +Utility (Electric, water etc)

NET: About 70,000YEN (About 38,500PHP)
+Overtime - Hourly 1,191yen.[QUOTE]

Pls do check what is meant with overtime. I suppose that's for weddings, etc. on weekends which you mean that you could come closer to the Y 200,000 if you count this in.
With a salary of Y 160 k your deductions for tax, national health insurance, etc. are extremely low. The fact that Y 160 k gross turn into Y 70 net looks like a scam. Rather insist that you only get a normal working contract with only the legal necessary deductions and all other stuff such as apartment is organized/paid by yourself. Again, it is most important to get a proper working contract that does not have any arbitrary deductions. If he really has any extra cost (such as a visa agency for organizing the paperwork for the visa), that should all be in the contract. Insist on a sentence like : "From the gross salary, there will only be the legally required deductions such as tax and social insurance." Also agree on transport, not only to the company but also for trips to wedding venues, etc.

[wako]

excuse me, cost of living and personal stuff is taken out AFTER you get your salary not before. Your effective salary is 70,000 yen a month and you have no idea what the rest is for.

Not only that 70,000 yen is about 2000 yen a day to spend on breakfast lunch and dinner. How about transport fees? Your other expenses are utilities and they dont come to 90,000 yen a month. You can NOT save anything on an effective NET salary of 70,000 a month, heck you can hardly feed yourself on that.

Find out what the charges are for and stop being so naive.

PS there have been no samurai in Japan for over 130 years, that is so cheesy and cliched. Just like the Rising Sun. This is a purely business decision, exploiting cheap Asian laborers by waving a job in Japan in front of your nose.

I already asked the ___ guy about it and he keep on ignoring my letter. I told him to list all the details for me to understand clearly since im a first timer..I also asked him what is the exact location of the apartment..he just said that my net will be 70,000 yen and will deduct the cost of living personal stuffs...etc. probably i will cover my train expenses n that amount..

also, we all know that there are no more samurai in japan, i know that..what im trying to say is that I personally believe Japanese guy is honorable and stop being racist after more than 60 years. (they bomb our cities before and raped our woman young and old. killed our great grandfather)

I believe most of the japanese is friendly, professional and loving. I have no idea they are doing and targeting cheap labor into their neighbor countries.

Thanks

[wako]

excuse me, cost of living and personal stuff is taken out AFTER you get your salary not before. Your effective salary is 70,000 yen a month and you have no idea what the rest is for.

Not only that 70,000 yen is about 2000 yen a day to spend on breakfast lunch and dinner. How about transport fees? Your other expenses are utilities and they dont come to 90,000 yen a month. You can NOT save anything on an effective NET salary of 70,000 a month, heck you can hardly feed yourself on that.

Find out what the charges are for and stop being so naive.

PS there have been no samurai in Japan for over 130 years, that is so cheesy and cliched. Just like the Rising Sun. This is a purely business decision, exploiting cheap Asian laborers by waving a job in Japan in front of your nose.

[QUOTE=ttokyo;1212530][QUOTE=wako;1212038]
Salary is like this.

BASIC: 160,000Yen (About 88,000PHP)
Deduction for;
All benefit + Overseas insurance.
Share apartment +Utility (Electric, water etc)

NET: About 70,000YEN (About 38,500PHP)
+Overtime - Hourly 1,191yen.

Pls do check what is meant with overtime. I suppose that's for weddings, etc. on weekends which you mean that you could come closer to the Y 200,000 if you count this in.
With a salary of Y 160 k your deductions for tax, national health insurance, etc. are extremely low. The fact that Y 160 k gross turn into Y 70 net looks like a scam. Rather insist that you only get a normal working contract with only the legal necessary deductions and all other stuff such as apartment is organized/paid by yourself. Again, it is most important to get a proper working contract that does not have any arbitrary deductions. If he really has any extra cost (such as a visa agency for organizing the paperwork for the visa), that should all be in the contract. Insist on a sentence like : "From the gross salary, there will only be the legally required deductions such as tax and social insurance." Also agree on transport, not only to the company but also for trips to wedding venues, etc.

Thanks for the heads up

Unfortunately, they disregard my application because i keep on asking to list all the detail instructions so i can understand. I also asked him if they want to reconsider my request and make at least 200,000 yen GROSS per month.

I didn't force him to grant me 200k yen all i said is i can't live up in a 70k yen NET per month and deduct all my cost of living, personal stuffs, train expenses n that amount.

Thanks

[Glenski]

Maybe. It depends on how many employees the company has. If it's less than five, he's not required to pay.

True. Find out if this is the case.

The gross salary is 160000. After deductions, including insurance and utilities, the net is around 70 000. As utilities will fluctuate every month, it's impossible to be more specific than that, since the landlord doesn't know how much utilities will be.

If this is the way things are calculated, I have some serious problems with the employer even more.

Rent is free, right?
So from that paltry 160,000 yen we can deduct the following, according to the employer:
30,000 for food
half of utilities (ok, so that might be a total of 10,000 for gas & water & electricity and 4000 for phone)
So far that leaves us with 116,000 yen, not 70,000

Insurance will not run 46,000 yen.

It sounds like a shitty job, but to a lot of people in the world, the opportunity to work in Japan for a year, while collecting a salary that should cover the cost of living, leaving a little left to send home, will be appealing.

And this is what the employer is betting will override common sense. How much is he paying other nationalities who have equivalent experience and background? Law says they should be paid equally, not simply pay "cost of living".

I'm not familiar with overseas insurance. Can you pls. elaborate more? All i know is that the company in Japan will sponsor my visa will give me a free lodging and health benefits.

If he is a company directly hiring you and has 5 or more full-time employees, as Effected After mentioned, he is supposed to offer you the shakai hoken variety of Japanese national health insurance. If he has fewer employees than that, you can still get another type of almost identical Japanese NHI called kokumin health insurance. The difference is trivial in some ways in respect to what the health insurance covers, but shakai hoken also includes pension payments. You can get back a big chunk of 3 years' of that when you leave. However, if he offers shakai hoken, he pays half. Many employers in the teaching world avoid that by counting classroom hours, not all others. I can't imagine how this employer would do that since yours is not a teaching job, so if he has >5 staff, he might just be scamming you so he doesn't have to pay half. That's illegal. It sounds from his description of "overseas insurance" that he expects you to get some private plan or travel insurance from home.

But what does he mean when you wrote he will "give you health benefits" anyway?

I don't mind sharing with other though having my own room is a big plus. I just want him to list in details all the packages and he keep on ignoring my inquiry.

If you think he is "rude" now and that you have problems deciding because he ignores your straightforward questions, imagine what it will be like to work for him!

Give the job a pass. Find another.

[Effected After]

Well Ben, I saw your posts calling me a ______ for calling you out on your stupidity. Then you went to defend yourself about something completely irrelevant.

It started with you being a generally negative and rude person as usual:

Find out what the charges are for and stop being so naive.

This is where I called you an ___ for not even reading the guys posts, seeing as had already posted all of these:

I was just asking if its ok with them and list all the deducted benefits into their packages

I asked the Japanese guy politely and list my computation

I just want him to list in details all the packages and he keep on ignoring my inquiry.

.I ask politely to list all the details of the salary deduction but he keeps on ignoring me

Ive read the posts and no where does it say how his salary is being divvied up and why 50% of it is taken out before he gets it. No explanation on what payments are for. He is being hired as cheap industrial labor to shift boxes and do grunt work for low wages.

And I have my head up my as-s, here.

Why yes, you do. You give the guy shit for not doing something he has already stated multiple times that he has done. Then when called out about it, you go on a rant about the living expenses, which is completely irrelevant.

So yes, you do have your head up your ass. And you call me a ______. I wasn't the one who was rude and abusive to a new poster for no reason.

[tomcat]

also, we all know that there are no more samurai in japan, i know that..what im trying to say is that I personally believe Japanese guy is honorable and stop being racist after more than 60 years. (they bomb our cities before and raped our woman young and old. killed our great grandfather)

I believe most of the japanese is friendly, professional and loving. I have no idea they are doing and targeting cheap labor into their neighbor countries.

Then you are in for a rude awakening when you get here.

Which, with any luck, will NOT be with this job. Does the fact that he is ignoring your request to know what the 70% of your salary is being held back for not raise a massive red flag?

Skip this job and wait for another opportunity.

[KansaiBen]

Then you are in for a rude awakening when you get here.

Which, with any luck, will NOT be with this job. Does the fact that he is ignoring your request to know what the 70% of your salary is being held back for not raise a massive red flag?

Skip this job and wait for another opportunity.

That and asking for a rise in salary before he has even started one day at work. Employer must think he has some chutzpah by even asking.

The thing stinks to high heaven yet the OP is beating himself up because the boss wont return his mails.

OP I have family to support too but salary has gone down this year. Employers here dont give a hoot about your family and your personal problems. They are not responsible for them, only the bottom line of their company.

[Effected After]

Ahh, so NOW you recognize that the guy has already asked. Trying to pull your head out your ass I see. Yet you find another reason to belittle him. The constant here is that you, the guy who acknowledges being bullied, just want to bully the newbie, regardless of what he has or hasn't done.

It really doesn't say much about you as a person KB. You would hope bullying victims would try to prevent that behavior towards others, not do it themselves.

[KansaiBen]

Ahh, so NOW you recognize that the guy has already asked. Trying to pull your head out your ass I see. Yet you find another reason to belittle him. The constant here is that you, the guy who acknowledges being bullied, just want to bully the newbie, regardless of what he has or hasn't done.

he has said in several posts that its for living costs, utilities as well as tax. Its still unclear what living costs entail and he doesnt even know if its for rent or not. He said accomodation was free but they are taking out 90,000 yen with no explanation whatsoever.

I have said in several post that its sounds like what the employer is doing is highly unethical if not illegal, but as the employee has no leverage and is desperate for a job he cant or wont complain. But they still knock their heads against a wall regardless. Sometimes its hard to save people from themselves. How many times have we had people come here on suspect contracts, have mysterious payments taken out and then wonder what hit them? How do you teach such people? There was a guy in a similar position a couple of months ago in Nagoya who was living on gasoline fumes and was being exploited. I can see the same thing happening here. Quits his job and gets chucked out of his apartment and ends up homeless and destitute. Who will come and help him then, you?

It really doesn't say much about you as a person KB. You would hope bullying victims would try to prevent that behavior towards others, not do it themselves.

he means well but im beginning to suspect he is his own worst enemy, and yet Im supposed to be respectful out of political correctness.

[tomcat]

That and asking for a rise in salary before he has even started one day at work. Employer must think he has some chutzpah by even asking.

A quick skim of the first post says that he applied and passed the interview. If he hasn't signed a contract yet, then trying to negotiate for a better salary doesn't seem too preposterous to me.

[Effected After]

he has said in several posts that its for living costs, utilities as well as tax. Its still unclear what living costs entail and he doesnt even know if its for rent or not. He said accomodation was free but they are taking out 90,000 yen with no explanation whatsoever.

Yeah, and you were bullying him for 'being naive' because he didn't know what these deductions were, even though he had made the effort to find out what these deductions were. So how exactly was he being naive? For not magically having the knowledge of what the deductions were for?

Even your defense of your bullying is defending something I was never attacking you for. Again, I'm not sure if your tactic is to draw attention away from the stupidity of your comments, or if you really don't have the intelligence to realize that your 'defense' was completely irrelevant.

[KansaiBen]

A quick skim of the first post says that he applied and passed the interview. If he hasn't signed a contract yet, then trying to negotiate for a better salary doesn't seem too preposterous to me.

He has little to leverage to ask for a high salary. Nothing to bargain with. If company says no then what can he do? Not much. If they give him a raise then it means they will have to give everyone else one who asks and personally I cant see the company contemplating that idea. Just my personal opinion though.

[Effected After]

he means well but im beginning to suspect he is his own worst enemy, and yet Im supposed to be respectful out of political correctness.

No, you should be respectful because he is another human being who has done you no wrong, and is just trying to find out some information so he doesn't make a mistake in his life.

What I want to hear is not your justification about why you SHOULDN'T not be a jerk, but rather why you should. You seem to think it's justified, so justify it. Because right now you are just coming across as a sleazy bully of a human being.

[tomcat]

He has little to leverage to ask for a high salary. Nothing to bargain with. If company says no then what can he do? Not much. If they give him a raise then it means they will have to give everyone else one who asks and personally I cant see the company contemplating that idea. Just my personal opinion though.

I am sure he won't get it - you seemed to think it was cheeky even to ask.

Certainly he would be better off asking. Then he can either take the job on the higher salary or, and I agree this is more likely, reject the job as he doesn't get the increase or any information about why they are keeping his already meagre salary back.

But the worst case is to take the job and accept their word for everything.

[Effected After]

I am sure he won't get it - you seemed to think it was cheeky even to ask.

You have to understand that KB strated in another thread that it's impossible to bargain for prices anywhere in Japan, that you always have to pay the requested price.

The guy is weak, so he takes out his weakness on those he perceives to be weaker. He can't ask for anything himself, so he'd rather criticize those who 'have the gall' to do so for themselves.

[KansaiBen]

You have to understand that KB strated in another thread that it's impossible to bargain for prices anywhere in Japan, that you always have to pay the requested price.

You obviously dont know the difference between a price for a product and salary-figure. Have you ever tried to ask for more money than a potential employer was willing to offer you?

Remember this is a low-level employee working for chicken-shi-t wages. Not as though he will be difficult to replace.

I think the OP should get the message now that the employers are not levelling with him, not being honest and they are not interested in his personal welfare. All they seem to want is a cheap warm body. What will it take for him to realise that he risks being exploited and taken advantage of?

[KansaiBen]

Certainly he would be better off asking. Then he can either take the job on the higher salary or, and I agree this is more likely, reject the job as he doesn't get the increase or any information about why they are keeping his already meagre salary back.

But the worst case is to take the job and accept their word for everything.

The alternative for the OP is unemployment, being passed over for consideration for employment or being left in the Phillipines working at what he does now. Sees Japan as a financial Shangri-La that will solve all his problems (just ask all the Pina bar hostesses and factory workers if that is the case). They will still seek to come here anyway, in search of a better life.

The employer has nothing to lose by saying no and is probably not even in a position to negotiate salary raises but simply passing down what comes from the top.

[Effected After]

You obviously dont know the difference between a price for a product and salary-figure. Have you ever tried to ask for more money than a potential employer was willing to offer you?

Yes. In my past company, I negotiated 1 million per year more than the salary that was originally offered.

Now as to the likelihood of this guy getting more money from this employer, well of course it's not likely, but if he can't afford to take the job at the offered salary, then he may as well ask for more rather than just walking away.

Anyways, again you've 'defended' yourself with complete irrelevancy. I still want to know, how do you justify bullying this guy, particularly when you've been a bullying victim yourself?

[KansaiBen]

Yes. In my past company, I negotiated 1 million per year more than the salary that was originally offered.?

yes and Im sure you have far more to offer than some laborer from the Phillipines coming here as cheap labor to work in their warehouse and probably being grifted on rent.

I called him naive because I spelt out on several occasions that the employer is being deceptive and hiding information, doing something that appears blatantly illegal if not unethical but still persists in chasing after this job even after being ignored by the employer for having the temerity to ask for an increase in salary.

Im not sure what other word could be used to describe such a person.

[Effected After]

I called him naive because I spelt out on several occasions that the employer is being deceptive and hiding information, doing something that appears blatantly illegal if not unethical but still persists in chasing after this job even after being ignored by the employer for having the temerity to ask for an increase in salary.

Really, 'cause I sure could swear you said this:

Find out what the charges are for and stop being so naive.

You should probably choose to lie about something that isn't so easily checkable.

I'm still waiting to hear your justification for bullying this guy. So far you've come up with nothing, and you are still coming off as a pretty scummy human being as a result.

[Effected After]

yes and Im sure you have far more to offer than some laborer from the Phillipines coming here as cheap labor to work in their warehouse and probably being grifted on rent.

That's not really the point though is it. If the salary was too low for him to be able to take the job, then give one good reason why he shouldn't ask for more on the off-chance that he may get it. Just one good reason, that's all I ask. Then I'll be willing to concede you may have a point.

[KansaiBen]

That's not really the point though is it. If the salary was too low for him to be able to take the job, then give one good reason why he shouldn't ask for more on the off-chance that he may get it. Just one good reason, that's all I ask. Then I'll be willing to concede you may have a point.

Because I believe if they are hiding information on the one hand, keeping half his salary before he gets it, it stands to reason they are not going to pay him more simply because he asks for it. All it means is more money they get to keep. May not sound like common sense to you but it sure does to me. I want to know why you think its OK to ask for a raise from an employer that is ripping you off in the first place. They have no logical reason to be generous or magnanimous to you.


He did ask and the employer is now not returning his email enquiries. I would think this evidence enough as to their response.

[Effected After]

I assume you were trying to explain why he shouldn't have asked for more money even though he wouldn't be able to take the job on the offered salary, but you didn't succeed. All you did was explain why it wasn't likely that he would get the money, not why he shouldnt ask. Do you actually have a reason? Or are you just trying to cover up more of your stupidity by talking about irrelevant points.

And are you ever going to get to your explanation of why it's ok for you to bully this poster?

[KansaiBen]

I assume you were trying to explain why he shouldn't have asked for more money even though he wouldn't be able to take the job on the offered salary, but you didn't succeed. Do you actually have a reason? Or are you just trying to cover up more of your stupidity by talking about irrelevant points.

such as taking my comments from a completely separate thread and using it to club me over the head with it.

And are you ever going to get to your explanation of why it's ok for you to bully this poster?

No, why should I? I think the OP is old enough and silly enough to see that it not my intention though you have taken it upon yourself to be his self-appointed advocate. I don't answer to you.

[Effected After]

such as taking my comments from a completely separate thread and using it to club me over the head with it.

What?!? Grammatically and logically, that reply doesn't even remotely match the comment it quoted. Are you really an English teacher?

No, why should I?

Well, if you don't mind looking like a worthless piece of shit for bullying some guy whose biggest infraction was worrying about being able to support his family on the wages he would make in a country he is not familiar with, then I suppose you shouldn't explain it.

But for a guy who whines so much about being so hard done by by the posters on this site, this thread is pretty much case-in-point about how you bring it upon yourself. I'm going to start linking to it when people question why you are given such a hard time.

[wako]

Quit it you guys. Let's talk and help each other instead. I'll stick here in my country for a while and will just travel in Japan maybe for a tour to see for myself the beauty of Japan.
I have a relatives in chiba. I wil try again to have a tourist visa because the first time i was denied even though my Aunt husband (japanese) sponsor me. They have a mansion and omise pay their taxes on time..etc.I'll try my luck again.

I'm going to get the requirements to the japanese guy since they disregard my application.

Thanks everyone.

I attached one of my work.


http://lemonsids.com/mark/index.html

[evilone]

For a first-year foreign resident making 160,000 yen/mo (1,920,000 yen gross, works out to a little under 700,000 taxible income) and assuming employer too ketchi to pay shakai hoken, this is what I calculate as approximate costs:

National income tax: 3300 yen/mo
Residence tax: 330 yen/mo (however you will have a lump-sum payment of up to 50,000 when you leave as the payments are calculated 1 year in arrears, monthly cost would jump to about 4000/mo second year)
Kokumin Kenko Hoken: 5000 yen/mo (paying the minimum as payments calculated on previous year's income, would increase to about 11000/mo second year)
Kokumin Nenkin: 13860 yen/mo

Monthly tax/insurance obligation of approx 23,000 yen/mo, 32,000 yen/mo after the first year.

Are my calculations horribly off?

[abhijeetm29]

Dear OP,

you too seem to share the same fate as me. I had a similar discussion in November last year. Go through,
http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthrea...15370-In-a-fix!
for further reading.

Regards,
Abhijeet.

[KansaiBen]

For a first-year foreign resident making 160,000 yen/mo (1,920,000 yen gross, works out to a little under 700,000 taxible income) and assuming employer too ketchi to pay shakai hoken, this is what I calculate as approximate costs:

Good luck trying to live on that but thats just me.

National income tax: 3300 yen/mo

about 8% of gross income.

Residence tax: 330 yen/mo (however you will have a lump-sum payment of up to 50,000 when you leave as the payments are calculated 1 year in arrears, monthly cost would jump to about 4000/mo second year)

Levied in 2nd year, around 4%.

Kokumin Kenko Hoken: 5000 yen/mo (paying the minimum as payments calculated on previous year's income, would increase to about 11000/mo second year)

About 3,000 yen monthly in the first year and 20-30,000 in the second year, based on gross income.
Kokumin Nenkin: 13860 yen/mo

[evilone]

Good luck trying to live on that but thats just me.




about 8% of gross income.




Levied in 2nd year, around 4%.




About 3,000 yen monthly in the first year and 20-30,000 in the second year, based on gross income.
Kokumin Nenkin: 13860 yen/mo

There's a 5% tax bracket at under 2 million yen.

And for this 1,920,000yen/year earner the taxible income (課税所得) would be 1920000 - ((1920000*0.3)+180000) (給与所得控除) - 380000 (所得控除) = 784000

At the 5% bracket that works out to 3267/mo.

The 給与所得控除 and 所得控除 work out to quite a significant chunk of the gross income at this poverty-line-level income.

There's also a per-capita portion of the residence tax of about 4000/year (333/mo) and I think that one is levied in the first year, but its been so long that I forget.

If that's correct, Municipal and Prefectural tax (10% combined) would end up being 333/mo the first year and 6867/mo the second.

I was calculating the Kokumin Kenko Hoken for the second year on the new premium system which is supposed to be in use across japan next year (currently only used in a few areas, i.e. Nagoya). The new system is derived from taxible income not gross income so it would give the OP a big break over the old costs.