Why Japan became rich and it's future

[Jpnwillprevail]

Very true. Also this isn't 1980, where buying a radio is a gamble, if you buy an unknown brand. You can buy a decent PC from an odd ball company, and it'll prolly be just as good as a brand name.

McDs, Ford, all them, now you can't copy that. As it takes a MASSIVE amount of capital to create stores/dealerships, supply chain, copy rights, and franchises. You can't just clone McDs, and make money. It doesn't work that way. Jpnwillprevail is an idiot, and doesn't know what he is talking about. At all.

You are contradicting yourself.. Youre proving my point by sayin these giant companies, beit Japanese or American, will be hard to copy. you make no sense here.. there seems to be alot of unhappy gaijins living in japan or who returned home. I'm sorry that Japan hasnt worked out for you and understand your frustration. If youre unwilling to integrate into the culture of Japan, you simply wont like it. I suggest everyone here whose unhappy with Japan.. dont take out anger and wish Japan to be unsuccessful. thats wrong. I meet gaijin like this all the time.. I recommend you go to HK. its more western.. ya might like it.. enjoy

[Jpnwillprevail]

Japanese firms also seem to have the smallest profit margin. Look at the steel industry, TEPCO is threatening to increase their electric costs by 17%, and that will send them into the red. This is even the case pre 2008. They are living on the edge, with outdated machinery.

BTW the Washington Metro 7000 cars are from the 1970's.

thansk buddy again..for proving my point.. lets get some chinese or korea metro 7000 cars and lets see if they can last 20 or more years

[elkarlo]

You are contradicting yourself.. Youre proving my point by sayin these giant companies, beit Japanese or American, will be hard to copy. you make no sense here.. there seems to be alot of unhappy gaijins living in japan or who returned home. I'm sorry that Japan hasnt worked out for you and understand your frustration. If youre unwilling to integrate into the culture of Japan, you simply wont like it. I suggest everyone here whose unhappy with Japan.. dont take out anger and wish Japan to be unsuccessful. thats wrong. I meet gaijin like this all the time.. I recommend you go to HK. its more western.. ya might like it.. enjoy

Dude, for reals, you are half retarded. I'm done with you. notice how everyone else called you an idiot, too?

[thefg]

They're not being left to their own devices though; American, european and Japanese companies are investing and showing them how to make good quality stuff.

exactly.

Chinese Shinkansen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_CRH2

Chinese passanger jet
http://www.cnngo.com/explorations/li...-airbus-489192

Give it 10 years and things will have changed a lot.

Didn't Japan used to be synonymous with poor quality produce in the 1950s/1960s?

Taiwan and Singapore both have large industries, they don't make shoddy crap and they could be considered Chinese, couldn't they?

the point is they couldnt do it without western consumers/customers dictating the standards .


This is nothing new or special - its the normal cycle in development.


Low labour countries are used for manufacturing but after a while as their standards of living increase their costs go up they (have to) shift to higher value add industries as the manufacturing they did do shifts to lower labour cost countries.


Perfect example of that is one of the countries you mention - Singapore.
Its nothing to do with chinese culture - this shift happens all over the world. They used to build ships in the UK once.. why did that shift to Japan. They use to build ships in japan once - why did that shift to korea.

[thefg]

There are alot of Japanese brands in stores which are higher quality and price..thats why maybe u dont see them because the cheaper 1-3 year products are pushed to the sales shelf in the front of the store..that needs maintenance at least once a year if your lucky..just like that nice looking flat screen we just got. lets not forget the Japanese dominance of most of the worlds subways including the whole NYC train system and railroads. In fact the New york railroad trains were getting so dirty after years of good use because they last so long. They just replaced them with fresh new trains..guess where they are from? Japan. They know they are reliable and will save them $$ in the long run. Lets no even mention the subways that along with most of the building machinery for construction like fork lifters.i know youve heard of Komatsu, mitsubishi,toyota,nisan, and TCM corp which together manufacturers 5 of the worlds top 10 manufacture of construction machines. Even HK trains are made by Kawasaki. Dont be mistaken to think these companies only make cars and cell phones.. . do you know who makes em all? if you think Japan is big off cell phone, you're wrong. there are so many stuff that's made by Japanese companies that you dont even know. and thats where the $$$ comes from thats supporting them. And guess what.. as those emerging markets start doing well. like the BRIC especially brazil, they too will need japanese equipment and appliances.. and high quality subway systems. i New york, theose subways are sooo old but they are still running.. lets talk about quality..the chinese recently tried to copy the japanese shinkansen and there was an accident. thats really sad that they just tried to push it without understanding the real specs behind the technology! so you can vouch for chinese quality all you want but the world still feels safer with Japanese made. and btw did you know that the US economy really isnt in a mess? dont be mistaken. America has $$ its just that the big companies keep their $ outside of America . the seconds all that is bought home.. enough said .Americans spend and still are spending. consumer driven economy. dont let the media trick you. no disrespect but the mainland has a long way to go in many ways before they even catch up to Taiwan and HK.. Kia is south Korean and has a huge reputation in America as being broken down quickly. The best thing from South Korea recently is the Samsung galaxy but I had a samsung smart phone and it broke after a short time so ..no thanks..dont let the flashy designs trick you. My Japanese phone from Docomo is as tough as a rock and still usable after YEARS.

sorry you may have made some good points but its hard to read when ones eyes are bleeding

[thefg]

Remember, if you are living in Japan you see a lot of Japanese brands and sure they can protect their home markets. But seriously, go overseas and walk into electrical shops, and phone stores and you won't see that much Japanese produce.

Dont get confused between the country where a product is "associated" with and where its made, where its internals are made, where the machines that make its internals are made.


You may not "see" it as a japanese product but open it up and take a look at all the japanese/chinese/korean products inside.

Take the Iphone. Its american right? Yet almost none (none?) of it is sourced in the US. Its Japanese, Chinese, Singapore and Korea that gets a large slice of that cake. Practically the only part that was done in US is the initial program development...by a group of indian programmers no doubt....



The US mnf industry is dead. Its increasingly (and now almost completely when it comes to semi) a design and r&d center only....increasingly all the manufacturing is done overseas.

..and why would toyota want to copy ford?

toyota is better than ford on ever front

[Dusty McNugget]

Interesting thread.
I was in an electronics shop the other day and witnessed an enquiring consumer who only ever purchased 'Panasonic' televisions go home with a 'Samsung', all the specs were better for not much extra cost.
To be fair Japan still dominates and is likely to dominate certain niches be it fishing equipment, motorcycle helmets, cameras etc however by and large its glory days are over.
The fact is a weak domestic economy ensures that all the export success in the world would not trickle down to Mr & Mrs Wantanabe anyway.

[elkarlo]

Dont get confused between the country where a product is "associated" with and where its made, where its internals are made, where the machines that make its internals are made.


You may not "see" it as a japanese product but open it up and take a look at all the japanese/chinese/korean products inside.

Take the Iphone. Its american right? Yet almost none (none?) of it is sourced in the US. Its Japanese, Chinese, Singapore and Korea that gets a large slice of that cake. Practically the only part that was done in US is the initial program development...by a group of indian programmers no doubt....



The US mnf industry is dead. Its increasingly (and now almost completely when it comes to semi) a design and r&d center only....increasingly all the manufacturing is done overseas.

..and why would toyota want to copy ford?

toyota is better than ford on ever front

The US isn't dead mnfg wise, but it is losing ground, and dying. A good amount of Boeing is in the US. As are some other high tech. What the US has is, R&D, aircraft, weapons, and don't forget agriculture and tourism. Japan lacks the last two by a great deal.

Been here a while, and I try not to buy Chinese products, and often avoid them. I have been noticing that items like pencils, erasers, alum foil, pots/pans and what not, are more often than not, being made abroad. Japan is facing the same erosion of industry that the US faced in the 80's. Question is, will they address the problems, or just ignore it?

[elkarlo]

Hey Jpnwillprevail, have you even been to Japan?

[elkarlo]

Japan does have some hidden strengths. The beer companies, for instance. Their market is tightening, and shrinking, so in order to stay in the game, they go abroad. Even lil Sapporo is buying up foreign brands.

Hitachi has a ton of subsidiaries that make some good products. Thing is Hitachi doesn't know this. They really need to spin off and streamline their portfolios. I talked to a fund manager. He said that if he could have managed to buy out Hitachi, they would make their money back, by selling off the unrelated subsidiaries, and still have most of what we know as Hitachi.

[chiba]

Going back to the whole iPhone thing. The below article states that iPhone screens are made in Japan, not sure if that's still the case.

"The bulk of the manufacturing of the iPhone is not done in China (although that is changing rapidly) or in any other low-cost labor country. The battery chargers, camera lenses, and timing crystals all come from Taiwan. The screen is from Japan, the video processing chip from South Korea, and many of the other chips Taiwan's Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. In all, over nine countries produce the parts and components that all head to final assembly in China. So, it is indeed, quite possible that the United States has a trade surplus with China qua China on the iPhone."

"They have argued that out of the roughly $500 retail price of an iPhone, only about $180 is accounted for by the manufacturing and assembly processes"

http://prestowitz.foreignpolicy.com/...ade_in_america

[chiba]

Regarding Boeing and arms companies does any know how much manufacturing Japan does for that , in terms of components/parts? They make plane components for Boeing, which I was told is why they aren't so bothered about having their own domestic aircraft industry.

[elkarlo]

Regarding Boeing and arms companies does any know how much manufacturing Japan does for that , in terms of components/parts? They make plane components for Boeing, which I was told is why they aren't so bothered about having their own domestic aircraft industry.

Good call on the iphone. Interesting that the screen is made in Japan. Wonder why.
Taiwan, always surprises me, in how much computer stuff they make. They have an interesting economy, that isn't based on the Japanese/Korean model.

Boeing? I think about 50% of their production is in the US, 30% or so in Japan.160k employees in the US, and about 6,000 total are in China.

It's hard to have a non-defense air industry. It's pretty much Boeing/Airbus now. Designing stuff like a passenger plane is crazy expensive. Designing a car door, for a car(remember front and back are different) costs about $50million. Now take that, and put that into a plane, and you'll multiply that by hundreds of times, instead of several like a car.

[beentheredonethat]

I was look at more a few Quality of Life Indices and I have to say i am pretty sure these are written by folks that have never visited the place they are tabling.

One was more interesting than most, it was an Index of cities rather than countries and the first Japanese city, Tokyo, dropped down to around the 46 figure, Kobe coming in a couple of stops later, and a number of Japanese cities came in the low 30s for Personal Safety.

Now, how do they figure that?

Anyone want to argue Nagoya is a better place to live than Kyoto, or Yokohama than Fukuoka? Neither of the two latter ones were listed at all!?

What I want to know is, who is going to remove all that concrete once the cities start to contract, and where are they going to stick it? Land reclamation might be one answer but, looking at the countryside, they are just going to leave the junk standing until the kudzu comes to take it away.

[Vortex]

I remember an Alex Kerr quote (approx), whose opinions are his own and I do not depend upon, about a German executive traveling by train through the J-suburbs and asking, "Is this where the poor people live?". His answer was, "That is where everybody lives". Anyone that has gotten off the train and spent walking through and going inside that environment would know what I mean.

Alex Kerr is a master at picking moronic quotes and presenting them as authoritative opinion. On this subject of yours, he also supplied the following:

"Nor does Japan's supposedly advanced lifestyle appeal much to middle- or upper-class Asians. 'To many Southeast Asians living here, Japan is the poorest country in the world - in terms of lifestyle', says Yau-hua Lim, an Indonesian of Chinese ancestry living in Tokyo. 'The Japanese have such pathetic lives. They may think Indonesia is a poor country, but we have larger houses, we can afford a car and a maid. It's easy to go to the beach on weekends. After living in Tokyo, my concept of rich and poor has really changed.' "

That says almost nothing about conditions in Japan, but a lot about the casual arrogance of Indonesians accustomed to a life of privilege. Real Indonesia is more like this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-surfing.html

and you're only classified as poor if you're living on 70 cents or less per day - which applies to 30 million Indonesians:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...fied-poor.html

This is not a country you'd sensibly use as an example of a place with a better "lifestyle" than Japan.

[chiba]

It's hard have a serious conversation about qulaity of life in Japan, people get so touchy about it. You can't have a serious debate with Japanese either, as they're so nationalist. Even when something is clearly crap they don't acknowledge it.

The US and Canada look like much more desirable places to live than Japan. Having visited both the US and Japan, I'd prefer to live in the US.

[Call_It_Like_Eye_See_It]

It's hard have a serious conversation about qulaity of life in Japan, people get so touchy about it. You can't have a serious debate with Japanese either, as they're so nationalist. Even when something is clearly crap they don't acknowledge it.

The US and Canada look like much more desirable places to live than Japan. Having visited both the US and Japan, I'd prefer to live in the US.

On the same payscale, and doing the same human tape recorder work that I do here in Japan, so would I..!

[beentheredonethat]

This is not a country you'd sensibly use as an example of a place with a better "lifestyle" than Japan.

I'd say Alex Kerr is bang on the nail 99 times out of 100 and the example he gave is fair enough ... for the wealthy. I know it is true of elsewhere.

Like Debito, it seems Kerr finally gave up on Japan too and moved to Thailand. I say he saw much more of Japan then we will ever and knows it better.

I'll tell you another example a Bengali friend gave me just a few days ago in his restaurant. He said, "See this?" and banged down a 100 Yen. "And see this?" as he waved a 10,000 Yen note. "In India, you can eat for this (the coin), and you cannot eat for this. You can enjoy your life on this, but not enjoy life on this (the note)".

[1standarduser]

On the same payscale, and doing the same human tape recorder work that I do here in Japan, so would I..!

Only work 200 days a year in North America, and get basically free healthcare?
Sounds great!

[elkarlo]

Only work 200 days a year in North America, and get basically free healthcare?
Sounds great!

Man, the health care here is SO $hitty. I have had 2 amazing experiences here with it. Plus my wife is a nurse, and has told me numerous tales of people dying from treatable cancer.

The thing is, Japanese take care of themselves. Look at most Americans, and how they don't. Yet Americans still live a long time, thanks to the medical system(s) there.

[Vortex]

I'd say Alex Kerr is bang on the nail 99 times out of 100 and the example he gave is fair enough ... for the wealthy. I know it is true of elsewhere.

Like Debito, it seems Kerr finally gave up on Japan too and moved to Thailand. I say he saw much more of Japan then we will ever and knows it better.

I'll tell you another example a Bengali friend gave me just a few days ago in his restaurant. He said, "See this?" and banged down a 100 Yen. "And see this?" as he waved a 10,000 Yen note. "In India, you can eat for this (the coin), and you cannot eat for this. You can enjoy your life on this, but not enjoy life on this (the note)".

So we have learned here that people who are top of the dungheap in very poor countries aren't thrilled to be merely scraping by, servantless, in rich ones. Bengal has some of the worst poverty on earth; it's not "cheap" to eat there, it's a place where some people can't afford to eat at all. And they die.

I find it hard to believe that Alex Kerr is as casually arrogant as the idiot Indonesian he quoted, but he's certainly out of touch. He was born in one of the richest towns in the US, spent a few years in Yokosuka when his father was transferred there, lived in Naples and Honolulu, studied at Yale and Oxford, and got a job working for a Texan billionaire on the strength of being a schoolfriend of his son. Now he deals antiques. That's a pretty comfortable bubble he's been living in...

[Agitator]

1) First, rates of income tax are ridiculously low in Japan. Although I was able to get some reductions for having a wife and two children as dependents last year, I ended up paying less than 5% of my income as income tax.

Speak for yourself. Some of us are paying 50% marginal rates here (40% national + 10% local).

[beentheredonethat]

I find it hard to believe that Alex Kerr is as casually arrogant as the idiot Indonesian he quoted, but he's certainly out of touch.

Which books of his have you read?

[John Grey]

Before I lived in Japan for two years I had this image of a highly intelligent race of people whom crated amazing technology. So I was surprised to find the reality of Japan was different. Maybe it's a reflection of the English school I worked for, but they didn't really use computers and instead relied on fax machines and paper records. Anyway, that’s just where I worked. The whole country surprised me a lot.

Lately I have been watching documentaries and thinking about why Japan became so rich. The below documentary suggested that Japanese companies use a lot of unfair practices in trade with the USA and the world. Also, that the US was scared that the Japanese would fall under communism so perhaps didn't resist their behaviour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUi_6_z-6Gc

Would you agree that Japan got rich making and exporting ships, cars, tvs, walkmans, vcrs, hifis, white goods, .... How ever today they really losing sight and market share. The most sought after products like iPhones are American and big internet media companies. The Japanese have no hope in being able to compete with such products. The iPhone replaces a camera, notebook, walkman, and gamboy with one device. That's a lot of lost business. I know that Japanese companies probably supply chips that go in the phone but it's not enough. I mean, how would they ever replicate the app store?

It seems that the Japanese are quite inventive , but that their economic miracle was based more on hard work and long hours, something that will be a problem for them in the future with their aging population. Their model was make products and export, but the world has changed. China and India can do what the Japanese once did and make those goods.

I'm not writing Japan off, they don't have half the social problems that the UK has for starters. I know they've got amazing scientists and some of their products are still desirable. It is sad though, they are definitely going down hill.

"Would you agree that Japan got rich..."

"Japan" never got rich, certain people did.... I cannot even qualify Japan as a first world country after seeing that revolting poverty here, have you really seem how many of the old people here have to live?
But the Japanese accept their world, and so I guess they do not deserve any better with their slave mentality. The country has by far the worst quality of life of all countries, where that much money is around.

There is very good article in today's Japan Times about the lousy life normal Japanese live:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20120131zg.html

"A winter's tale: cold homes, poor lives in wealthy Japan
The country is still rich, so why do the Japanese people live like they're not?"

I have never met one single person outside of Japan, that has any idea what this country is really like unless they have lived here for a while.....

[John Grey]

Alex Kerr is a master at picking moronic quotes and presenting them as authoritative opinion. On this subject of yours, he also supplied the following:

"Nor does Japan's supposedly advanced lifestyle appeal much to middle- or upper-class Asians. 'To many Southeast Asians living here, Japan is the poorest country in the world - in terms of lifestyle', says Yau-hua Lim, an Indonesian of Chinese ancestry living in Tokyo. 'The Japanese have such pathetic lives. They may think Indonesia is a poor country, but we have larger houses, we can afford a car and a maid. It's easy to go to the beach on weekends. After living in Tokyo, my concept of rich and poor has really changed.' "

That says almost nothing about conditions in Japan, but a lot about the casual arrogance of Indonesians accustomed to a life of privilege. Real Indonesia is more like this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-surfing.html

and you're only classified as poor if you're living on 70 cents or less per day - which applies to 30 million Indonesians:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...fied-poor.html

This is not a country you'd sensibly use as an example of a place with a better "lifestyle" than Japan.

I am quite certain, the only thing this says something about, is your ignorance... dream on. And you seem to have problems understanding what you read. He quotes an Indonesian, and as far as quality of life goes, he is dead on. You have never been to Indonesia, have you? He is not talking about poverty, he is comparing people with equivalent jobs, and the homes they go home to, and when they get there and what they do there....
Do you have any idea at all of the life of a sarary man?

[elkarlo]

well poverty is always an issue in 1st world countries. Look at the US, Italy, or Europe in General. They're all rich countries but yet are the citizens truly rich? The answer: no. A few people are rich. The majority is broke.

I don't think most GPer see it in their country because almost all of us live in middle class-upper class society. Come intern with my old public defender office, you'll see a boatload of poor people

Have to say that poor Americans in general live like middle class Japanese. Also, there seems to be a large Japanese underclass.

Not too mention, that many houses/apartments even today, don't have flush toilets, nor showers. My neighborhood has 3 sentou. Poor people here, live like Americans did pre 1920.

[elkarlo]

hmm, haven't visited those neighborhoods. I should go and see it one of these days

Oh yeah man. I live near a TON of poor people. A lot of them are very ghetto like, and this is without the crime too. So it's not like companies are afraid to built the place up.

[elkarlo]

BTW Sony is in some serious trouble http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hit-ye...HRlc3QD;_ylv=3

You can't lose money for 4 years straight, and stay on top. They are going to have to cut the fat, and fast to survive. This is also with the Japanese govt bailing them out via making the schools buy TVs back in 2009.

[Vortex]

Which books of his have you read?

I've read Dogs and Demons twice all the way through. The first time because I'd bought it; and the second time a year or two later to see if it was really as bad as I'd thought. It was worse.

I read the other one, what is it, Lost Japan? I found it quite enjoyable at the time, but if I ever read it again, it will be to reassess it in the light of Dogs and Demons. I bet it's crap.

If you were hoping I'd not taken the trouble to read Kerr, no such luck, I'm afraid. And if you find him 99% right, read the chapter on cinema. I picked it apart once on GP, mainly because it was so badly thrown together that even a comparative layman could tear it to shreds. I assume that if he's satisfied with his cinema chapter, he has little regard for truth in general, and the rest of the book may be viewed in that light. Certainly when he talks up some other Asian city like Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Bangkok to talk down a Japanese city, I know he's bullshi.tting, because I've been to those places and have a very good idea what they're actually like.

[Vortex]

I am quite certain, the only thing this says something about, is your ignorance... dream on. And you seem to have problems understanding what you read. He quotes an Indonesian, and as far as quality of life goes, he is dead on. You have never been to Indonesia, have you? He is not talking about poverty, he is comparing people with equivalent jobs, and the homes they go home to, and when they get there and what they do there....

Yes, I get it John. Of _course_ he's not talking about poverty, because that's inconvenient and distracting. He wants to talk about people who are already living in comfort.

The difference between here and Indonesia is the size of the income gap between rich and poor, and between the middle class and the poor. It's huge in Indonesia, much smaller in Japan. Mr Yau is nobody in Japan, and if he wants a servant, and a house, and a garden, he'll have to pay a lot more for one than he did at home. His Indonesian comforts are built on a considerable degree of human misery - not necessarily his fault you understand, but you'd think he could work out a slightly more complex view of it than listing the wonders of Indonesian life - which most Indonesians don't stand a chance in hell of attaining. Life in Japan may not be a picnic, but the discomforts are at least shared among the people in a somewhat equitable manner. Not so at all in Indonesia.

And it's really not that great that in a lot of countries, you can keep a servant for little more than loose change, even if you're lower middle class. I know people in Hong Kong and Singapore love it. I don't.

[elkarlo]

Ah the old days. When I got out of law school, I used to live in this crappy apartment building (because $32,000 doesn't pay much). You know you're in a bad neighborhood when windows are replaced with cardboard. My first apartment, full of fleas, no heater, no hot water, and you get to hear gunshots at night.

good times, good times.

Good thing I decided to join JAG before I got shot lol

I went to college in Baltimore, and I lived in a pretty bad neighborhood. Never had leas though. Did see giant rats at night, from time to time. But the ghetto housing was better than most Japanese' houses, sadly enough.

We closed the windows in the summer if we started hearing gunshots =D

[chiba]

"Would you agree that Japan got rich..."

"Japan" never got rich, certain people did.... I cannot even qualify Japan as a first world country after seeing that revolting poverty here, have you really seem how many of the old people here have to live?
But the Japanese accept their world, and so I guess they do not deserve any better with their slave mentality. The country has by far the worst quality of life of all countries, where that much money is around.

There is very good article in today's Japan Times about the lousy life normal Japanese live:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20120131zg.html

"A winter's tale: cold homes, poor lives in wealthy Japan
The country is still rich, so why do the Japanese people live like they're not?"

I have never met one single person outside of Japan, that has any idea what this country is really like unless they have lived here for a while.....

That's an interesting article. I'm well aware of the differences between Japanese heating and British central heating. People in Britain heat every room in their house, usually all day in the winter. Although, Japan isn't really that cold and winter isn't long. Would it be worth building better insulated houses?

I made a judgement that Japan was rich, but on the surface it's hard to tell that it has problems. Japanese don't do their laundry in public. I did see the train station in Chiba fill with homeless every night, but they'd always disappeard by the morning.

Ladies have their LV bags, but they still ride the bus to work! I suppose that's not rich.

[elkarlo]

That's an interesting article. I'm well aware of the differences between Japanese heating and British central heating. People in Britain heat every room in their house, usually all day in the winter. Although, Japan isn't really that cold and winter isn't long. Would it be worth building better insulated houses?

I made a judgement that Japan was rich, but on the surface it's hard to tell that it has problems. Japanese don't do their laundry in public. I did see the train station in Chiba fill with homeless every night, but they'd always disappeard by the morning.

Ladies have their LV bags, but they still ride the bus to work! I suppose that's not rich.

I live near Chiba station. Go a bit from it, and you'll see TONS of laundromats.

Insulation is only a good thing. Cuts down on heating/cooling costs. It's just plain stupid not too.

[chiba]

I live near Chiba station. Go a bit from it, and you'll see TONS of laundromats.

Insulation is only a good thing. Cuts down on heating/cooling costs. It's just plain stupid not too.

Is Ocean Deep still going?

[elkarlo]

roll em up

Had my shotgun there too. I am a weirdo, so it was a bolt action shotgun.

[elkarlo]

unless it's expensive to do so

It's gotta cost less than the heating/cooling costs. A few rolls of the Dupont sheeting would go a long way. Wonder if they don't use it, as there isn't a domestic industry that makes insulation. Hence no company pushing it on the govt?

[elkarlo]

Is Ocean Deep still going?

Prolly. I don't go to gaijin bars. Don't like that desperation and what not, that hangs in the air.

[1standarduser]

I don't go to gaijin bars. Don't like that desperation and what not, that hangs in the air.

Please provide more info.

[shigusan]

Its true that Japan became wealthy due to its manufacturing power, (mainly due to hard work and at the time large subsidies in the technological areas from the government). However Japan's future now is not in manufacturing. Japan's future is capitalizing on its 100 M people (while it is estimated that this will decline ), the consumer market is a potential goldmine. Manufacturing will always have its place in Japan, but I believe this will gradually decline over the next half century.

[John Grey]

Yes, I get it John. Of _course_ he's not talking about poverty, because that's inconvenient and distracting. He wants to talk about people who are already living in comfort.

The difference between here and Indonesia is the size of the income gap between rich and poor, and between the middle class and the poor. It's huge in Indonesia, much smaller in Japan. Mr Yau is nobody in Japan, and if he wants a servant, and a house, and a garden, he'll have to pay a lot more for one than he did at home. His Indonesian comforts are built on a considerable degree of human misery - not necessarily his fault you understand, but you'd think he could work out a slightly more complex view of it than listing the wonders of Indonesian life - which most Indonesians don't stand a chance in hell of attaining. Life in Japan may not be a picnic, but the discomforts are at least shared among the people in a somewhat equitable manner. Not so at all in Indonesia.

And it's really not that great that in a lot of countries, you can keep a servant for little more than loose change, even if you're lower middle class. I know people in Hong Kong and Singapore love it. I don't.

I believe you misunderstand something here... Everything you write in this post is obviously true, but it was not the subject we were talking about.
I supposed you are in the teaching profession? Well, that other forist's and my point is the simply fact that you will have lot more quality of life f.e. in Bali than in Tokyo. He was comparing the quality of life in comparable circumstances, and as far as that goes, Indonesia is certainly better IF you have a certain income. The discussion was NOT about justice or human rights or whatever. And that is why I criticised your comment. Of course I agree with everything you write now. I have been to Jakarta and its disgusting, but I also lived in Bali and if it were not my family and visa restrictions, I would certainly prefer to live there. as soon as my mother-in-law dies we will dissolve everything here in this Third World Country and get our asses as quick as possible to Australia...
Maybe we will make it before the Chinese invade.... ;-)