Chinese passanger jet
Give it 10 years and things will have changed a lot.
Didn't Japan used to be synonymous with poor quality produce in the 1950s/1960s?
Taiwan and Singapore both have large industries, they don't make shoddy crap and they could be considered Chinese, couldn't they?
the point is they couldnt do it without western consumers/customers dictating the standards .
This is nothing new or special - its the normal cycle in development.
Low labour countries are used for manufacturing but after a while as their standards of living increase their costs go up they (have to) shift to higher value add industries as the manufacturing they did do shifts to lower labour cost countries.
Perfect example of that is one of the countries you mention - Singapore.
Its nothing to do with chinese culture - this shift happens all over the world. They used to build ships in the UK once.. why did that shift to Japan. They use to build ships in japan once - why did that shift to korea.
Dont get confused between the country where a product is "associated" with and where its made, where its internals are made, where the machines that make its internals are made.
You may not "see" it as a japanese product but open it up and take a look at all the japanese/chinese/korean products inside.
Take the Iphone. Its american right? Yet almost none (none?) of it is sourced in the US. Its Japanese, Chinese, Singapore and Korea that gets a large slice of that cake. Practically the only part that was done in US is the initial program development...by a group of indian programmers no doubt....
The US mnf industry is dead. Its increasingly (and now almost completely when it comes to semi) a design and r&d center only....increasingly all the manufacturing is done overseas.
..and why would toyota want to copy ford?
toyota is better than ford on ever front
I was in an electronics shop the other day and witnessed an enquiring consumer who only ever purchased 'Panasonic' televisions go home with a 'Samsung', all the specs were better for not much extra cost.
To be fair Japan still dominates and is likely to dominate certain niches be it fishing equipment, motorcycle helmets, cameras etc however by and large its glory days are over.
The fact is a weak domestic economy ensures that all the export success in the world would not trickle down to Mr & Mrs Wantanabe anyway.
Been here a while, and I try not to buy Chinese products, and often avoid them. I have been noticing that items like pencils, erasers, alum foil, pots/pans and what not, are more often than not, being made abroad. Japan is facing the same erosion of industry that the US faced in the 80's. Question is, will they address the problems, or just ignore it?
Hey Jpnwillprevail, have you even been to Japan?
Japan does have some hidden strengths. The beer companies, for instance. Their market is tightening, and shrinking, so in order to stay in the game, they go abroad. Even lil Sapporo is buying up foreign brands.
Hitachi has a ton of subsidiaries that make some good products. Thing is Hitachi doesn't know this. They really need to spin off and streamline their portfolios. I talked to a fund manager. He said that if he could have managed to buy out Hitachi, they would make their money back, by selling off the unrelated subsidiaries, and still have most of what we know as Hitachi.
Going back to the whole iPhone thing. The below article states that iPhone screens are made in Japan, not sure if that's still the case.
"The bulk of the manufacturing of the iPhone is not done in China (although that is changing rapidly) or in any other low-cost labor country. The battery chargers, camera lenses, and timing crystals all come from Taiwan. The screen is from Japan, the video processing chip from South Korea, and many of the other chips Taiwan's Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. In all, over nine countries produce the parts and components that all head to final assembly in China. So, it is indeed, quite possible that the United States has a trade surplus with China qua China on the iPhone."
"They have argued that out of the roughly $500 retail price of an iPhone, only about $180 is accounted for by the manufacturing and assembly processes"
Regarding Boeing and arms companies does any know how much manufacturing Japan does for that , in terms of components/parts? They make plane components for Boeing, which I was told is why they aren't so bothered about having their own domestic aircraft industry.
Taiwan, always surprises me, in how much computer stuff they make. They have an interesting economy, that isn't based on the Japanese/Korean model.
Boeing? I think about 50% of their production is in the US, 30% or so in Japan.160k employees in the US, and about 6,000 total are in China.
It's hard to have a non-defense air industry. It's pretty much Boeing/Airbus now. Designing stuff like a passenger plane is crazy expensive. Designing a car door, for a car(remember front and back are different) costs about $50million. Now take that, and put that into a plane, and you'll multiply that by hundreds of times, instead of several like a car.
I was look at more a few Quality of Life Indices and I have to say i am pretty sure these are written by folks that have never visited the place they are tabling.
One was more interesting than most, it was an Index of cities rather than countries and the first Japanese city, Tokyo, dropped down to around the 46 figure, Kobe coming in a couple of stops later, and a number of Japanese cities came in the low 30s for Personal Safety.
Now, how do they figure that?
Anyone want to argue Nagoya is a better place to live than Kyoto, or Yokohama than Fukuoka? Neither of the two latter ones were listed at all!?
What I want to know is, who is going to remove all that concrete once the cities start to contract, and where are they going to stick it? Land reclamation might be one answer but, looking at the countryside, they are just going to leave the junk standing until the kudzu comes to take it away.
"Nor does Japan's supposedly advanced lifestyle appeal much to middle- or upper-class Asians. 'To many Southeast Asians living here, Japan is the poorest country in the world - in terms of lifestyle', says Yau-hua Lim, an Indonesian of Chinese ancestry living in Tokyo. 'The Japanese have such pathetic lives. They may think Indonesia is a poor country, but we have larger houses, we can afford a car and a maid. It's easy to go to the beach on weekends. After living in Tokyo, my concept of rich and poor has really changed.' "
That says almost nothing about conditions in Japan, but a lot about the casual arrogance of Indonesians accustomed to a life of privilege. Real Indonesia is more like this:
and you're only classified as poor if you're living on 70 cents or less per day - which applies to 30 million Indonesians:
This is not a country you'd sensibly use as an example of a place with a better "lifestyle" than Japan.
It's hard have a serious conversation about qulaity of life in Japan, people get so touchy about it. You can't have a serious debate with Japanese either, as they're so nationalist. Even when something is clearly crap they don't acknowledge it.
The US and Canada look like much more desirable places to live than Japan. Having visited both the US and Japan, I'd prefer to live in the US.
Like Debito, it seems Kerr finally gave up on Japan too and moved to Thailand. I say he saw much more of Japan then we will ever and knows it better.
I'll tell you another example a Bengali friend gave me just a few days ago in his restaurant. He said, "See this?" and banged down a 100 Yen. "And see this?" as he waved a 10,000 Yen note. "In India, you can eat for this (the coin), and you cannot eat for this. You can enjoy your life on this, but not enjoy life on this (the note)".
The thing is, Japanese take care of themselves. Look at most Americans, and how they don't. Yet Americans still live a long time, thanks to the medical system(s) there.
I find it hard to believe that Alex Kerr is as casually arrogant as the idiot Indonesian he quoted, but he's certainly out of touch. He was born in one of the richest towns in the US, spent a few years in Yokosuka when his father was transferred there, lived in Naples and Honolulu, studied at Yale and Oxford, and got a job working for a Texan billionaire on the strength of being a schoolfriend of his son. Now he deals antiques. That's a pretty comfortable bubble he's been living in...
"Japan" never got rich, certain people did.... I cannot even qualify Japan as a first world country after seeing that revolting poverty here, have you really seem how many of the old people here have to live?
But the Japanese accept their world, and so I guess they do not deserve any better with their slave mentality. The country has by far the worst quality of life of all countries, where that much money is around.
There is very good article in today's Japan Times about the lousy life normal Japanese live:
"A winter's tale: cold homes, poor lives in wealthy Japan
The country is still rich, so why do the Japanese people live like they're not?"
I have never met one single person outside of Japan, that has any idea what this country is really like unless they have lived here for a while.....
Do you have any idea at all of the life of a sarary man?
Not too mention, that many houses/apartments even today, don't have flush toilets, nor showers. My neighborhood has 3 sentou. Poor people here, live like Americans did pre 1920.
BTW Sony is in some serious trouble http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hit-ye...HRlc3QD;_ylv=3
You can't lose money for 4 years straight, and stay on top. They are going to have to cut the fat, and fast to survive. This is also with the Japanese govt bailing them out via making the schools buy TVs back in 2009.
I read the other one, what is it, Lost Japan? I found it quite enjoyable at the time, but if I ever read it again, it will be to reassess it in the light of Dogs and Demons. I bet it's crap.
If you were hoping I'd not taken the trouble to read Kerr, no such luck, I'm afraid. And if you find him 99% right, read the chapter on cinema. I picked it apart once on GP, mainly because it was so badly thrown together that even a comparative layman could tear it to shreds. I assume that if he's satisfied with his cinema chapter, he has little regard for truth in general, and the rest of the book may be viewed in that light. Certainly when he talks up some other Asian city like Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Bangkok to talk down a Japanese city, I know he's bullshi.tting, because I've been to those places and have a very good idea what they're actually like.
The difference between here and Indonesia is the size of the income gap between rich and poor, and between the middle class and the poor. It's huge in Indonesia, much smaller in Japan. Mr Yau is nobody in Japan, and if he wants a servant, and a house, and a garden, he'll have to pay a lot more for one than he did at home. His Indonesian comforts are built on a considerable degree of human misery - not necessarily his fault you understand, but you'd think he could work out a slightly more complex view of it than listing the wonders of Indonesian life - which most Indonesians don't stand a chance in hell of attaining. Life in Japan may not be a picnic, but the discomforts are at least shared among the people in a somewhat equitable manner. Not so at all in Indonesia.
And it's really not that great that in a lot of countries, you can keep a servant for little more than loose change, even if you're lower middle class. I know people in Hong Kong and Singapore love it. I don't.
We closed the windows in the summer if we started hearing gunshots =D
I made a judgement that Japan was rich, but on the surface it's hard to tell that it has problems. Japanese don't do their laundry in public. I did see the train station in Chiba fill with homeless every night, but they'd always disappeard by the morning.
Ladies have their LV bags, but they still ride the bus to work! I suppose that's not rich.
Its true that Japan became wealthy due to its manufacturing power, (mainly due to hard work and at the time large subsidies in the technological areas from the government). However Japan's future now is not in manufacturing. Japan's future is capitalizing on its 100 M people (while it is estimated that this will decline ), the consumer market is a potential goldmine. Manufacturing will always have its place in Japan, but I believe this will gradually decline over the next half century.
I supposed you are in the teaching profession? Well, that other forist's and my point is the simply fact that you will have lot more quality of life f.e. in Bali than in Tokyo. He was comparing the quality of life in comparable circumstances, and as far as that goes, Indonesia is certainly better IF you have a certain income. The discussion was NOT about justice or human rights or whatever. And that is why I criticised your comment. Of course I agree with everything you write now. I have been to Jakarta and its disgusting, but I also lived in Bali and if it were not my family and visa restrictions, I would certainly prefer to live there. as soon as my mother-in-law dies we will dissolve everything here in this Third World Country and get our asses as quick as possible to Australia...
Maybe we will make it before the Chinese invade.... ;-)