Japan with child

[Cheap Steve]

My partner and I have a daughter though I am not the biological father (he has never seen the child) and we are not married. We are thinking about going to Japan to work in around 18 months time when our daughter will be 3 yrs old. By then my partner should have a BA and I should have an MA in English Language Teaching and we should have a few thousand pounds saved. So the issues for us concern childcare if we're both working, and visas, especially if only one of us is, and of course the finances assuming we start at the bottom of the teaching hierarchy at no more than Y250K/month.
I assume there's no chance of a dependent visa in our current position but what if I was registered as the child's legal parent/guardian - something we've talked about anyway? Also, the figures I see for public childcare (e.g. c. Y50k/month) seem much cheaper than expected - have we missed something? Any other advice?
Thanks in advance

[iago]

My partner and I have a daughter though I am not the biological father (he has never seen the child) and we are not married. We are thinking about going to Japan to work in around 18 months time when our daughter will be 3 yrs old. By then my partner should have a BA and I should have an MA in English Language Teaching and we should have a few thousand pounds saved. So the issues for us concern childcare if we're both working, and visas, especially if only one of us is, and of course the finances assuming we start at the bottom of the teaching hierarchy at no more than Y250K/month.
I assume there's no chance of a dependent visa in our current position but what if I was registered as the child's legal parent/guardian - something we've talked about anyway? Also, the figures I see for public childcare (e.g. c. Y50k/month) seem much cheaper than expected - have we missed something? Any other advice?
Thanks in advance

If your partner, the child's mother, can qualify for a visa, then the child will qualify for a dependent visa as her dependent.

You will need to qualify independently for your own working visa.

No plans to marry? You could then be her dependent or her yours; the child would be her dependent.

Of course, whichever way you look at it, your situation has some complexities. Unless you can both independently get jobs supporting working visas, expect the complexities to delay your visa application process.

[wzwzwz]

Re: childcare, it depends where you decide to live. There are two types of fulltime daycare in Japan: ninka (public, authorized) and ninkagai (private, authorized). Well, there are also private non-authorized but the former two are way more common. They are hard to get into but generally very good quality.

Ninka is madly competitive in Tokyo. It is theoretically possible to apply mid-year, but in reality unless you apply for April admission you are SOL. Applications for April entry are due at the end of January, and you will need to be working or have a confirmed job offer. The cost depends on your income but goes up to max 60 000 or 70 000 yen/month.

Ninkagai is a bit less intense but still hard to get into in Tokyo. It is probably your best option, as you don't need to have proof of a job or job offer to enroll. If I were you, I'd call around to a few ninkagai daycares in the area you want to move to about six months before you get there and get on the waiting list. Cost is somewhere around 65 000yen/month; varies with the daycare.

If she will be three, there is also kindergarten (youchien). Hours are shorter but some kindergartens offer extended hours.

Finally, there are some options for cheap babysitting through the public welfare office. If one of you works a 9-5 teaching job and the other evenings, you may be OK with part-time babysitting.

Good luck.

[cucashopboy]

Re: childcare, it depends where you decide to live. There are two types of fulltime daycare in Japan: ninka (public, authorized) and ninkagai (private, authorized). Well, there are also private non-authorized but the former two are way more common. They are hard to get into but generally very good quality.

Ninka is madly competitive in Tokyo. It is theoretically possible to apply mid-year, but in reality unless you apply for April admission you are SOL. Applications for April entry are due at the end of January, and you will need to be working or have a confirmed job offer. The cost depends on your income but goes up to max 60 000 or 70 000 yen/month.

Ninkagai is a bit less intense but still hard to get into in Tokyo. It is probably your best option, as you don't need to have proof of a job or job offer to enroll. If I were you, I'd call around to a few ninkagai daycares in the area you want to move to about six months before you get there and get on the waiting list. Cost is somewhere around 65 000yen/month; varies with the daycare.

If she will be three, there is also kindergarten (youchien). Hours are shorter but some kindergartens offer extended hours.

Finally, there are some options for cheap babysitting through the public welfare office. If one of you works a 9-5 teaching job and the other evenings, you may be OK with part-time babysitting.

Good luck.

You'd have to be earning quite a lot to pay 6-70000 a month for ninka. If you are earning about 5 million between you, it's more like 25000 yen, though I believe that ninkagai is more expensive. The difficulty is getting in, and I agree that the quality of public-sector childcare is very high.

[Cheap Steve]

OK, thanks for all the replies.
We're now awash with info about childcare so I don't want to comment or ask more questions on that area until we've ploughed through it all but much appreciated, thanks again.
I would like to ask another visa question though : if we went as individuals and aimed to qualify separately, would my gf be expected to earn a higher amount to obtain a sponsorship visa on account of having a child? Would my contribution even be considered as it was not registered on paper, so to speak?
Thanks

[KansaiBen]

I would like to ask another visa question though : if we went as individuals and aimed to qualify separately, would my gf be expected to earn a higher amount to obtain a sponsorship visa on account of having a child? Would my contribution even be considered as it was not registered on paper, so to speak?
Thanks

I wonder how easy it will be for a single mother to get hired in the first place. Employer will wonder how she can work the hours they will want and raise a kid at the same time. Employers also will not pay her more money just because she has children. If she's working in a conversation school there is usually no extra allowances for having dependents. The fact she is living with her boyfriend probably wont make a lot of difference here.

Nurseries (hoikuen) usually close around 6 pm while a yochien (kindergarten) will usually close around three. Someone needs to be available to pick them up until the other parent comes home. Hard to do if both of you are working till 9pm at night. One will have to get an ALT/dispatch job so you can be home in time to pick up the child from daycare.

[Cheap Steve]

Thanks KB, yea, we know there are a lot of pitfalls and we wouldn't expect any employer to pay extra for us if they could get the same skills from someone with no kids, we wondered if immigration would want to see higher earnings before issuing a visa in the case of a single mother. Research tells us this might not be too much of a concern but the juggling work and children seems it may be. How standardised are working hours? Is there any such thing as night shift work in TEFL/ELT land? Never seen much variation on the job ads pages but if ya don't ask.....
Thanks again for the input.

[KansaiBen]

Thanks KB, yea, we know there are a lot of pitfalls and we wouldn't expect any employer to pay extra for us if they could get the same skills from someone with no kids, we wondered if immigration would want to see higher earnings before issuing a visa in the case of a single mother. Research tells us this might not be too much of a concern but the juggling work and children seems it may be. How standardised are working hours? Is there any such thing as night shift work in TEFL/ELT land? Never seen much variation on the job ads pages but if ya don't ask.....
Thanks again for the input.

Generally students want to study when (a) they are not working and (b) when they are not at school. For language schools peak hours are around evenings up until 9 or 10 pm at night. Kids classes are usually from 4-5-ish after school. They may be squeezed in between juku and sports practice. No such thing as standardisation, just like none does working in a fast food restaurant. There are slow and busy periods and schedules will reflect the ebb and flow of students.

If you are an ALT dispatched to a high school your hours are from about 8.30 am to about 4, unless you have some overtime (unusual for dispatch teachers, but possible if you work for a BOE or Board of Education).

You will also work weekends, national holidays at a conversation school and don't even think of getting sick. Sick days don't exist generally and it will be taken out of your paid holidays which you get after working six months. If kid gets a fever and has to stay home it may cause problems with having to take time off.

Schools avoid overtime (which is any hours over and above forty hours a week) and pay is supposed to be 1.25 the normal rate. Companies generally avoid assigning overtime hours, but a ten hour day might be possible if you are part time. In Japan an employer can legally make you work 6 days a week, as long as its forty hours a week, there is no legal "two days off" in Japan.

Immigration will want to see that your girlfriend can support herself on a conversation school salary which is technically possible on what she will be paid. Her only real extra expense will be kindergarten fees. As long as she can find a sponsor she will be OK.

[CapnCrunch]

Do either of you speak Japanese? If not, getting public childcare might be a problem as the application, etc. will all be in Japanese. Most public and private places have strict rules about student supplies, lunches, etc. that you'll have to be able to understand and comply with. It will be easier if you'll be in Tokyo but much more difficult if you are elsewhere. Have either you or your partner tried applying to the JET Programme? Participants get a lot of support and would make things much easier.

Also, and I'll probably get flamed over this, but Japan is a tough place to raise kids right now. Who knows what all the radiation in the food and air will do to the children there over time.

[cucashopboy]

all the radiation in the food and air.

Let's stick to facts please. The radiation in the air in Tokyo and most of Japan has been reported by countless different sources to be no higher than any other major city in the world. Tested food has nearly always been found to be low in radiation, and Fukushima prefecture has been active in setting up testing centres to verify the safety of food so that its producers can sell its products. Food that has been tested to be higher appears to have generally been reported. If in doubt, the prefecture of origin is on all Japanese fresh food. As other people have said, I'd avoid the food in cheap izakayas etc, where there is strong competition to sell food as cheap as possible.
I'd be more concerned about the possibility of another strong earthquake, and if you get the choice avoid coastal and reclaimed land.

Anyway, back to the nursery stuff.

[Cheap Steve]

Thanks again for all your responses.
No, we don't speak any practical Japanese at the moment, we're considering a few other destinations too(e.g. Hong Kong, Macau) before we begin studying any language. OK, we're not gonna get fluent in the time but we will make a start.
The radiation issue - well there's lots of conflicting info out there, my Japanese colleagues here claim something of a whitewash by their media but then again if there are excessively cautious or even hysterical responses about it wouldn't be something too unique! We will look into it but we're starting with the visa & childcare situations first but all input is appreciated anyway.
As for the job-childcare-visa conundrum... well we're gonna keep thinking a bit longer.....
I'm sure I'll resurface on here with another raft of questions soon enough, til then, thanks again to all for your help.

[ume]

SO I can maybe offer a bit of insight into this, which may or may not be helpful.

I am a single mother, living in Japan (Osaka) and have lots of experience with this kind of stuff..

Firstly - if you want public hoikuen for your daughter do NOT get married. Being a single parent automatically puts you higher up the "list". Public nurseries will usually open from 7-7 (in Osaka) and for me (I work a 9-5 job, but not as an english teacher) its no problem. Also if you are married, the kuyakusho (ward office) will take into account both your salaries when deciding how much you pay. Obviously its going to be much more, than a single mother.

If you were an english teacher at an eikaiwa, it would be impossible. These public nurseries are closed on sundays and national holidays (there are alot of them in Japan) and at an eikaiwa it would be non negotiable to work these days. Also, at most eikaiwas you get penalized if you need a day off work (usually a days pay plus a fine) and you know ... kids get sick? And public nurseries will NOT take kids who are sick. Its tough.

And you do need to be good at Japanese to be able to get your kids into nurseries.

However I gotta disagree with someone above about the price - for me, as a single mother with only one income, earning a reasonable salary I get charged around 2man for ninka hoikuen (or i will, from april at least.) I do happen to know that a couple of working parents earning around 5 million between them would be looking at 3 to 5 man for ninka. Anyone upwards of 7m a year would be looking at the 6-7 man range for ninka. However, despite the fact that ninkas are public, they are also much better nurseries than their "mu-ninka" counterparts. Thats why so many people want to get in.

That being said, my kid is currently in a very expensive private hoikuen at the moment (over 6 man a month) and its really very good. Just really very expensive ><

Also, as someone mentioned, finding a job as a single mother (or mother in general) will be tough.
Her best bet is a couple of part time jobs, maybe a few hours a week at one part time english teaching job, a few more hours a week at another, and then topping up with private lessons in between. BUT this is only possible if you are married. She would never be able to get a visa to do this.

Also getting visas will be a pain in the butt. The pro about getting married is the whole "dependants" visa thing, meaning only one of you will HAVE to work - that would be you. I dont want to touch this topic

Good luck though! It seems like a pain in the ___ .. why would you want to move!!

[Glenski]

Also getting visas will be a pain in the butt. The pro about getting married is the whole "dependants" visa thing, meaning only one of you will HAVE to work - that would be you. I dont want to touch this topic

What is the pain? They obviously realize that to stay here, one of them needs a visa, whether for work or school. The visa process is pretty clearly laid out for dependents, too.

[iago]

What is the pain? They obviously realize that to stay here, one of them needs a visa, whether for work or school. The visa process is pretty clearly laid out for dependents, too.

They both need visas and, because they are not married, they need to qualify independently. Not impossible, just not as straight-forward as a regular case.

[KansaiBen]

One other spanner in the works is the tax implications. If both parents are working full time, and are married, the main breadwinner will lose his/her dependents deduction when they files their tax return, if the dependent earns over 1.04 million a year, which is about 85,000 yen a month. If they are unmarried they are treated as single individuals and can earn as much as they want with no penalty. Japan kind of penalizes you if you both work as they want one to stay home and raise kids, though you will pay through the nose for child care.

[StarfoxPro]

We are thinking about going to Japan to work in around 18 months time when our daughter will be 3 yrs old.

The trouble that people are willing to go through just to come to Japan is incomprehensible.

I don't mean any disrespect, but why on Earth would you want to do such a self destructive thing?

[KansaiBen]

The trouble that people are willing to go through just to come to Japan is incomprehensible.

I don't mean any disrespect, but why on Earth would you want to do such a self destructive thing?

1. Manga
2. the women
3. Lack of employment opportunities back home
4. A desire to come here since they were in kindergarten.
5. They are worried another tsunami will come along and sink Japan into the sea.

[cucashopboy]

One other spanner in the works is the tax implications. If both parents are working full time, and are married, the main breadwinner will lose his/her dependents deduction when they files their tax return, if the dependent earns over 1.04 million a year, which is about 85,000 yen a month. If they are unmarried they are treated as single individuals and can earn as much as they want with no penalty. Japan kind of penalizes you if you both work as they want one to stay home and raise kids, though you will pay through the nose for child care.

Childcare in Japan is not expensive compared with the European countries that I know about. Also the dependent's deduction is not worth that much. When my wife was on maternity leave, I was able to deduct 380,000 yen from my taxable income, which meant that I paid 38,000 yen less income tax (marginal rate of 10%) and possibly a similar amount less local tax that year - i.e., less than a week of my wife's take-home pay now that she is working again. I don't agree that Japan does penalise working married couples.

[Cheap Steve]

More thanks, - Ume, some very useful info there, lots more for us to consider, likewise with the tax situation... we are trying to break down our investigations into components but, of course, they all connect with each other.
As for why we want to move to Japan.... well, for a start, sounding out the issues on forums isn't a lot of trouble, it's assessing the possibilities and, as I said, we're considering other options too. Also, as well as us both moving towards careers in linguistic fields, and thus wanting to be somewhere there are relevant opportunities, there are socio-cultural reasons why we believe Japan may provide the life we want for the 3 of us more than the UK or elsewhere . That's a whole different debate though and while I'd be happy in principle to enter into such I doubt I've got the time.
Still, if you think it's a daft idea, fair enough, thanks again to you all for taking the time to contribute.

[xHime]

The trouble that people are willing to go through just to come to Japan is incomprehensible.

I don't mean any disrespect, but why on Earth would you want to do such a self destructive thing?

I totally agree. You do all of your traveling and selfish living BEFORE you have a child. Or after they're grown. Not when they're three years old. The kid's needs should be the only thing being thought about right now, not some immature selfish desire to go spend 18 months in Japan- should've done that before getting knocked up.

Whatever money you waste on this move, you could put in a trust fund for your child's future education. There's no benefit for a 3 year old to go spend a year hanging out in a Japanese child care program, especially since you'll just go home afterwards and they'll probably never be back to Japan (or at least not until they are grown). What is the direct benefit to the child? If there is none, then you shouldn't do it.

People really need to do this kind of stuff before getting knocked up. If you were indefinitely moving to Japan, it would be different. But an 18 month trip....with a child you should have better things to think about.

[Deathblob]

I totally agree. You do all of your traveling and selfish living BEFORE you have a child. Or after they're grown. Not when they're three years old. The kid's needs should be the only thing being thought about right now, not some immature selfish desire to go spend 18 months in Japan- should've done that before getting knocked up.

Whatever money you waste on this move, you could put in a trust fund for your child's future education. There's no benefit for a 3 year old to go spend a year hanging out in a Japanese child care program, especially since you'll just go home afterwards and they'll probably never be back to Japan (or at least not until they are grown). What is the direct benefit to the child? If there is none, then you shouldn't do it.

People really need to do this kind of stuff before getting knocked up. If you were indefinitely moving to Japan, it would be different. But an 18 month trip....with a child you should have better things to think about.

You live in the part of Japan where they have pirates, cholera, and famine or something?

It's not like he's taking his family to Somalia, for f*cks sake.

[Shimi]

I totally agree. You do all of your traveling and selfish living BEFORE you have a child. Or after they're grown. Not when they're three years old. The kid's needs should be the only thing being thought about right now, not some immature selfish desire to go spend 18 months in Japan- should've done that before getting knocked up.

Whatever money you waste on this move, you could put in a trust fund for your child's future education. There's no benefit for a 3 year old to go spend a year hanging out in a Japanese child care program, especially since you'll just go home afterwards and they'll probably never be back to Japan (or at least not until they are grown). What is the direct benefit to the child? If there is none, then you shouldn't do it.

People really need to do this kind of stuff before getting knocked up. If you were indefinitely moving to Japan, it would be different. But an 18 month trip....with a child you should have better things to think about.

Maybe they are coming here in the hopes of finding a better life. It doesn't seem like you even bothered to read any of the OP's posts. In his first post, the OP said: "We are thinking about going to Japan to work in around 18 months time when our daughter will be 3 yrs old. By then my partner should have a BA and I should have an MA in English Language Teaching and we should have a few thousand pounds saved." which seems to mean that in 18 months after their daughter has turned 3, they've finished uni, and have some money saved up that they are thinking of relocating to Japan (among other places).

The OP didn't say: "We are thinking of visiting Japan for 18 months and then returning to our home country, dragging our daughter along for the ride." Don't know where you came up with that one.

People with small children relocate all of the time for all kinds of reasons. Who are you to say that such people are being selfish and immature?

[Cheap Steve]

Thanks, Deathblob and Shimi, you've saved me a job there which is handy as I don't really have the time spare to enter a debate on the lifelong commitment of parenthood with someone who lacks the patience and application to engage in an internet forum thread properly.
I will, however, reiterate that all the other comments were gratefully received as positive contributions.
Thanks again

[Shimi]

Thanks, Deathblob and Shimi, you've saved me a job there which is handy as I don't really have the time spare to enter a debate on the lifelong commitment of parenthood with someone who lacks the patience and application to engage in an internet forum thread properly.
I will, however, reiterate that all the other comments were gratefully received as positive contributions.
Thanks again

Pay no mind to xHime. Hopefully things will work out and your experience will end up being a positive one. Best of luck.

People really need to do this kind of stuff before getting knocked up. If you were indefinitely moving to Japan, it would be different. But an 18 month trip....with a child you should have better things to think about.

Some people really need focus on reading a post carefully and making sure they understand what is being asked before they start typing. :b

[Truth Police]

The trouble that people are willing to go through just to come to Japan is incomprehensible.

I don't mean any disrespect, but why on Earth would you want to do such a self destructive thing?

It happens over and over. I don't get it. At least if the OP were a single guy I could understand some of the motivation.

Oh well, the truth hurts ... especially when it slams you across the forehead.

TP

[Shimi]

It happens over and over. I don't get it. At least if the OP were a single guy I could understand some of the motivation.

Oh well, the truth hurts ... especially when it slams you across the forehead.

TP

Why do you have to get anything? Why do you have to understand some of OP's motivation? The OP and his partner are adults. It sounds like they're still in the process of deciding what to do. Families with young children move all of the time. Sometimes they move just across town, sometimes they move across country, sometimes they move across the globe. That's the truth.

[ttokyo]

What's your g/f's degree in ? Childcare or Education ? Best deal is that she could work in an international kindergarden teaching and work out a deal that the kid is attending as well... I've seen 'international' Kindergardens who only had J-kids and were quite eager to also have foreign kids...

[Cheap Steve]

Well this one's still running and, I feel, showing the forum in a good light in the way that there are sensible and helpful responses to any post that serves no useful purposes.
My gf's degree is in Portuguese so not fitting the mould of childcare or education but another ingredient in the mix to consider anyway...
There will be a post on here soon enough about the (any?) demand for Portuguese in Japan....what about all the Brazilians there? or is that clutching at straws??... anyway that's for another thread tho' sadly I do feel I need to explain now that just because I haven't asked about working in,say, Macau or Brazil, on a Japan forum, doesn't mean we haven't thought about it already.
Thanks again for all the contributions..... feel free to interpret my use of 'contributions' as you see fit.

[Truth Police]

Why do you have to get anything? Why do you have to understand some of OP's motivation? The OP and his partner are adults. It sounds like they're still in the process of deciding what to do. Families with young children move all of the time. Sometimes they move just across town, sometimes they move across country, sometimes they move across the globe. That's the truth.

The other truth is that most people are idiots.

TP

[Shimi]

The other truth is that most people are idiots.

TP

If the shoe fits....

Or, perhaps you can regale us with more stories about flight attendants.