Alternative Okinawa: Americans Out!

[beentheredonethat]

(From the Logical case for anti-America sentiments topic).

The myths and the realities ... a learning experience for me because I have not looked at the situation before and am making no intellectual pretensions about these roughly assembled notes.

My position would be unapologetically pro self-determination and self-sovereignty ... but that there is no point me picking a fight if they were not able to nor going to back me.

If I was Okinawan, I would be anti-bases.

Re: the governor of Okinawa and other Okinawan political leaders

"nuts and a bunch of wimps".

Yes, by all means let's kick the US military out of Okinawa. And then let's have these protestors use all the millions of dollars they possess to build new businesses and industries ...

Once the US bases are gone the economy of Okinawa WILL tank. Property rates will crash and people will flee the island.

I strongly doubt it.

The figures * I read are:

Tourist revenue is 16%

Base revenue is 8% (some say 5%†)

98% of 5,000,000 tourist are from the mainland.

(I would accept this issue is new to me and so that needs qualifying. Average individual income derived from bases is estimated to be 10%)

Extract from that:

a) the long-term social, cultural and environmental costs (say -4%)

Add back

b) the likely existence of a large J-SDF base in its place, say +4%

Plus an increase in J-SDF families, say +1%

It would not be hard to see that 'USA Out' could be made to balance or have little economic impact.

And it would lower the rape case and crime statistics ... both recorded and unrecorded and unprosecuted.

In fact, the Japanese Communist Party calculated that the value of the bases was 420.7 billion yen and the return of all U.S. bases in Okinawa would bring about 2.2 times economic benefits (915.6 billion yen) to Okinawa and demanded that the government make efforts to get these U.S. base sites back to Japan.

Reading further ... one can immediately debunk the myths of the bases being good for the island.

Its nearly 5 trillion Yen investment in the years 1972 - 1996, largely in the form of public works, has done little to create a basis for sustainable development in Japan's poorest prefectrue. Quite the contrary. The agriculture and fishery economy, the distinctive biological and zoological endownment, and Okinawan society have suffered vast social, economic and ecological damage precisely as a result of Japanese-financed construction.

Okinawa Citizens, US Bases, and the Security of Asia - Economic and Political Weekly

It suggests to me that the money that went into Okinawa did not end up with the Okinawans but the usual depositories such as the large construction and infrastructure companies. Further more, the "leakage", income leaving the island, on tourist spending is around 40% which if plugged and kept on the islands could further balance the economy.

The tourism industry employs many Okinawans, but only rarely in higher-echelon jobs. Most of that industry's profits go to corporations based elsewhere in Japan.

The manufacturing/industrial sector is poorly developed. If the Okinawans were smart (which they are), or at least removed from under the thumb of Tokyo and freed from its bureaucratic bindings, they could replace the US military with some other international presence like a int. university, a proper Free Trade Zone and trade centers inviting more varied foreign investment.

Background

In 1879, Japan forcibly annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom. The main reason for Japan's takeover was the islands' geographic importance for military purposes. Okinawans became second-class citizens within Japan. Some have even argued that Okinawa was in fact Japan's first colony.

In the 1880s, Japan's government was willing to cede part of the Ryukyu Islands to China in return for commercial considerations and even signed a treaty to this effect, but it ultimately failed to gain ratification from the Qing court. Following Japan's defeat in the Second World War, an agreement in 1947 was made with the American Occupation forces that, in return for a short occupation of the mainland, the US could retain possession of Okinawa Prefecture ... indefinitely.

During WWII approximately 20% of the civilian population died (estimated civilian casualties of 90,000 to 150,000), most of the island's infrastructure, historical and cultural assets were destroyed. It was, at the time, largely an undeveloped sub-tropic agricultural society with its own unique culture.

As a result, Okinawa Prefecture was under US military control from 1945-1972. These and many other events belie the Japanese government's claim that it regards Okinawa to be an integral part of the homeland. Between 1945 and 1950, the Americans occupied what Okinawan land they wanted, regardless of whether it had been publicly or privately owned.

Okinawa remains Japan's poorest prefecture, with a per capita income level approximately 70% of the Japanese mainland average and twice unemployment. Post WWII, it has been remade as a service economy, largely serving the bases.

Okinawa Prefecture comprises only 0.6% of the whole Japanese territory and yet is home to 78% of the US Military installations in Japan (20% of the best land of the mainland). Much of the land was forcibly taken from residents. 40% of people who live in the Kadena town think that having military bases in their town is not be a plus for them, only 16% of people do.

The recent development is having a detrimental effect on the environment. Its coral reefs are dying and beaches are being spoilt. Over-fishing has led to the decline of that industry. Highly carcinogenic materials (fuels, oils, solvents, heavy metals and DU rounds) are regularly released during military operations and the people suffer deafening noise from low-flying military aircraft.

Dozens of barrels of the toxic defoliant Agent Orange were buried in the late 1960s beneath what is now a busy neighborhood in the central Okinawa Island town of Chatan, near Araha Beach.

Public works ill-suited to the environment of Okinawa have resulted in the widespread destruction of Okinawa’s mountains, rivers, and sea.

Under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA, Article 4), the U.S. is not responsible for environmental clean-up of land or water and host communities are not adequate provided with information on the extent of military contamination.

The islands are home to the worst kept "secret" nuclear weapons.

[beentheredonethat]

Economics

In order to create the current situation, the exchange rate between the dollar and the 'B Yen' was artificially distorted (the ‘B yen’ was worth about a third of the mainland currency). This had the effect of removing any incentives for Okinawa to produce its own goods for ‘export’ and made the economy heavily dependent on imports. This was an effective 'containment and control' policy which aimed to tying the Okinawan economy to the Americans. Thus, the agricultural prefecture of Okinawa was artificially forcefully transformed into a service-based economy dependent on the custom of the American military. The revenue stream was generally directed out of the region and the local economy did not prosper as much as might be expected from the visual transformation it underwent.

The "development fund" it is paid is of around three billion yen pa. Yet Nago City’s agricultural output in the early 1990s was over nine billion yen pa, the highest in all Okinawa. Now it is only six billion, a drop of three billion. Just by regaining that three billion we can obviate the need for three billion yen in development funds.

Japan pays $100,000 per capita, or "per US soldier" every year.

Crime

Military personnel who have injured or, in some cases, killed local people through negligent driving have not been brought to trial in local courts. This has angered local people who see it as a daily manifestation of U.S. insensitivity and high-handedness.

There have been approximately 5,584 criminal incidents involving members of the US military in the 36-year period (1972-2008) since Okinawa was officially returned to Japan. Of those, murder, armed robbery, arson and rape accounted for 559 cases. There are over 100 serious traffic accidents involving US military-associated vehicles each year, and the numbers have been increasing in the last 5 years to around 160-180 accidents a year.

Prostitution

After the war, approximately 10,000 Okinawan women coerced into prostitution poverty, currently 7,000+ Filipinos are employed in the 'entertainment' industry

Okinawan opinion

Quality of life: 84% of Okinawans felt there was a disparities between the mainland Japan and Okinawa Prefecture. However, many feel Okinawans fare better under the American than they did under the pre-war Imperial Japanese masters.

On the US military bases:

66% wanted a "phased reduction"
22% wanted "the immediate removal of all bases"
only 10% were content with "the situation as it is now"

Conclusion

To put it bluntly, Okinawa is being shafted by Tokyo who is being shafted by Uncle Sam. Decision being made by the US are then forced upon Okinawans by Tokyo which regularly holds closed door or secret meetings, ignores local democratic opinion and makes unfavorable and counterproductive decisions.


Base Return Action Program

* The American Village: Redefining Security in a "Militourist" Landscape, Ayano Ginoza (JSS 2007)
† Okinawa: Effects of long-term US Military presence

See also:

Ryukyu-Okinawa History and Culture Website and its Facebook page
Okinawa Peace Network of Los Angeles, Bibliography
Myth of Bases Economy in Okinawa
The Development of Okinawa Economy and the North East Asian Regional Cooperation, Ebina Yasuhiko
Political Economy of the Free Trade Zone in Okinawa, Nukumi Tetsuro
Overview of Okinawa
Close the Base

[hennagaijin]

Indeed.

And the bad publicity the Americans have received has kept many Japanese tourists away..
(I have heard that first hand.)

So, we can assume domestic tourism would increase if the Americans left.

[beentheredonethat]

Okinawa Anti-Base Protesters Remember WWII

[beentheredonethat]

And the bad publicity the Americans have received has kept many Japanese tourists away..
(I have heard that first hand.)

So, we can assume domestic tourism would increase if the Americans left.

That is a very, very good point ...

[beentheredonethat]

Come to Paradise! (... build a military base, occupy it and rape the women).

Locals try to find their own way of life whilst it goes on. The soul of Okinawan music and cultural diversity ... Part Two here.

[edin日本]

Indeed.

And the bad publicity the Americans have received has kept many Japanese tourists away..
(I have heard that first hand.)

So, we can assume domestic tourism would increase if the Americans left.

Would it? As I see it Okinawa would become another Subic Bay. Officially only a small amount of the money the Okinawan economy earns comes from the US bases, unofficially with the various businesses, government grants and other under the table goodies that the Okinawans currently get and would see cease if the bases left the economy would immediately go into a tailspin.

Now, if there was an actual plan for rebuilding after the bases left in a way that would benefit the Okinawans I might change my opinion. But knowing the Japanese government, there isn't a plan or if there is one it will only benefit some big construction companies that are based in the riding of some Minshuto or Jinminto bigwigs.

[beentheredonethat]

Just nice pictures and music ... now, that's a blue sky!

[edin日本]

It's a nice place except for the Habu and Mamushi and the fresh outta boot US Marines and the fact that none of the natives believed that I wasn't USMC despite wearing a t-shirt with a maple leaf and saying "Made in Canada" on it.

[beentheredonethat]

It's a nice place except for ... the fresh outta boot US Marines.

They are a bit like members of a cult, aren't they?

Except a lot more able to willing and able to inflict pain than a Mormon or Hare Krishna.

[well_bicyclically]

Indeed.

And the bad publicity the Americans have received has kept many Japanese tourists away..
(I have heard that first hand.)

makes sense! I guess that is why J-tourism to places like Hawaii and Guam far exceeds that of the Ryukyus.....
(I think you should stop listing to fellow crack enthusiasts)!

[hennagaijin]

makes sense! I guess that is why J-tourism to places like Hawaii and Guam far exceeds that of the Ryukyus.....
(I think you should stop listing to fellow crack enthusiasts)!

Actually, they didn't go there either.
The group of Japanese people from my town I was referring to chose another Japanese island instead, because they said they preferred one without an American base.

They were big spending 50+ year old people. No drug users amongst them.

I also interviewed 20 other people for a project.
I asked them where they would go for holidays if they were given a free ticket to anywhere.
NONE of them picked Hawaii or Guam or anywhere else in the US.
The answers were all Asia and Europe, except a couple said Egypt and one said Australia.

I don't claim to know how Japanese people think.
But I do listen to what they say.

[well_bicyclically]

Actually, they didn't go there either.
The group of Japanese people from my town I was referring to chose another Japanese island instead, because they said they preferred one without an American base.

They were big spending 50+ year old people. No drug users amongst them.

I also interviewed 20 other people for a project.
I asked them where they would go for holidays if they were given a free ticket to anywhere.
NONE of them picked Hawaii or Guam or anywhere else in the US.
The answers were all Asia and Europe, except a couple said Egypt and one said Australia.

I don't claim to know how Japanese people think.
But I do listen to what they say.

well... as long as your "sampling" was statistically sound....

[edin日本]

They are a bit like members of a cult, aren't they?

Except a lot more able to willing and able to inflict pain than a Mormon or Hare Krishna.

That's one of the reasons I always say "Take a knife to a fistfight and a 9mm pistol to a knifefight."

[TJrandom]

I am sure that there must be a reference to it somewhere above, and I just missed it.

But just in case it wasn’t actually there – and at the risk of being redundant – it seems to me that the purpose of, and the benefits that Okinawa and the rest of Japan obtains from these bases … are… economic in the sense that they enjoy economic freedom, the right to use Yen as their currency, the right to use Japanese as their language, the right to travel unimpeded to the rest of Japan, along with a few more rights… that they would not likely enjoy – were Okinawa a part of the Empire of Communist China.

So what is the crap about percentages of economic contribution all about?

[edin日本]

What it all boils down to and our windmill tilting madman of an OP doesn't realize is that Tokyo wants the US bases in Okinawa and if fact if they could have their way all of the US bases currently in Japan would be located in Okinawa. The Japanese logic for doing this is;

the bases are disruptive, are a reminder of Japan's past and proof that the United States doesn't trust Japan
the Okinawans aren't Japanese, they know that and have no love for their rulers in Tokyo so. it's better for the Okinawans to vent their anger on the Americans instead of them forming an independence movement and all that entails.

[hennagaijin]

beentheredonethat

Indeed.
Well said.

Most people are too scared to say what you are saying for fear of being labeled "anti-American" (the greatest sin in the 21st century, apparently) and being harassed and abused for daring to challenge the "Empire".

Less than 5% of the world's population do not have the right to behave as they please outside their own borders.
"The greatest democracy on earth" should know that.

[Shakes Spear]

The penis envy on this thread is awesome!!

[hennagaijin]

Mothers often tell their fat annoying obnoxious little kids that people don't like them because they are "jealous".
Those mothers are lying and/or kidding themselves.

Who would want to be an American who was not?

Currently the most hated nation on earth with people from all over the world wanting to kill its citizens.

[YokohamaTommy]

Blippity Bloppity Blarg.
It's like screaming at the sea, wishing for a Pony.

Okinawa is part of Japan, not it's own sovereign nation despite what you Yahoos may think.

The U.S. isn't going anywhere as long as China is armed and right across the sea.
One wonders if the Japanese Empire would have been so kind to say... the Taiwanese, if they had won the war in the pacific.
I think their history of what they do to subjugated territories speaks for itself.

Frankly, Okinawa AND Japan should thank their lucky stars that America didn't blast the whole gawd-damned island chain into infinity.
But you know, America... they're evil imperialistic a$$holes, right..

[Shakes Spear]

Who would want to be an American who was not?

Currently the most hated nation on earth with people from all over the world wanting to kill its citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra..._United_States

In 2006 the United States accepted more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined. After ethnic quotas on immigration were removed in 1965 the number of actual (first-generation) immigrants living in the United States eventually quadrupled, from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007. Over one million persons were naturalizedas U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading countries of origin of immigrants to the United States were Mexico, India, the Philippines, and China. Nearly 14 million immigrants entered the United States from 2000 to 2010.

Hmmmm.....apparently a lot of people didn't get the message!

[Shakes Spear]

They don't want to be Americans ... they want to escape poverty and the oppression it entails.

So why not choose Canada? Australia? New Zealand? Or even Japan??
You're just pissed because Siri can't understand your atrocious accent.
Here's a tip. Build your own fucking products!

[edin日本]

So why not choose Canada? Australia? New Zealand? Or even Japan??
You're just pissed because Siri can't understand your atrocious accent.
Here's a tip. Build your own fucking products!

SIMI appears to be a perfectly good alternative for him to use

[edin日本]

Very good ... does not do too well with Furby either

It is an Imperial thing, isn't it? ... Like all the Jamaicans and Indians going to Britain. None of the nations you mentioned ever invaded anyone so no one wants to visit them. Strange ... I would have thought people would have preferred to go where they wasn't a history of abuse


Can Okinawans get a Green Card? Now that would be a good compromise.


Apple? ... bah, a Syrian selling Chinese sweatshop knock offs.

I have heard the new iPhone4s don't work properly in Japanese either ... although there is already an App to find the local Soaplands.

alamak! you no keenah lah! go relac one corner round room lah!

[LD2]

...

Then a few years later there was the 14 year old ...

You make it sound as if it is a daily occurrence.

It's interesting that you didn't include this video. Issei Sagawa killed and ate a girl, and even admits that he wants to eat another, but not kill her. Apparently he frequented Roppongi looking for a white woman. Isn't he charming?
Part 1


Keep in mind that Obara had videotaped himself drugging and raping 150 women. Police even found the tapes.
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GTi_...eature=related

[well_bicyclically]

?....and an ancient valuable castle ...

A castle's only value is to remind the populous that they are peasants and only a few in the society control the wealth and power passed down along family lines.

Pray tell, What structure is in its place now? I wonder what message that structure tells..... And who put it there.....

[edin日本]

Let's say that you and the Okinawan anti American groups get your way, the US military is moved out of Japan and the Security Treaty is abrogated. Now that there will be no security blanket or US presence to put the brakes on the stupidity that the S Koreans and Japanese get into or to prevent the NK's from launching a nuclear strike, should the Japanese start aggressively building up their military? And if they do build up their military because it's not safety with China, South and North Korea actively hating their guts what will happen in the region?

Before you do battle with the wind powered (some say it's hot air direct from Kokaigijido and Kasumigaseki), mechanical monster maybe you should stop and think about it.

[TJrandom]

...I don't swallow Yankee Cold War rhetoric. Never did. ....

Well you have definitely swallowed something.

I wonder what the Tibetans, Nepalese and Formosans would have to say about their chances to avoid the oppressions for China? If I recall correctly - the last US land expansion was – 1959, preceded by Alaska – 1867.

Okinawa was as good an opportunity as any – but it was returned to Japanese administration in 1972.

At any time it so chooses – Japan can indeed kick the Americans out, as they are not here by force of arms – but by treaty. That this hasn't happened seems evidence to me that the Japanese see merit in having them here.

[TJrandom]

Like I say ... the Japanese do, the Okinawans don't. I side with the Okinawans. At present the islands are occupied against their will.

Occupied - by the Americans - or the Japanese?

[Shakes Spear]

Like I say ... the Japanese do, the Okinawans don't. I side with the Okinawans. At present the islands are occupied against their will.

psssst.....Okinawans are actually Japanese! No, REALLY!!
It's like when you say 'Hawaiians' are a happy group of islanders. They're still Americans.

I find your handle quite humorous because you obviously believe that Wikipedia counts as "being there and doing that".

It was the Okinawans own lust for trade with other countries, especially the West, that led to their demise as the Ryukyu Kingdom.
Play with fire long enough and eventually you're gonna get burned.

[LD2]

Why?

They are Japanese. They probably never stepped on Okinawan soil once in their lives, and the Japanese are part of the problem too.

However, the perpetual crimes the Americans commit are simply avoidable by removing the Americans.

The other big difference is any crime carried out by a Japanese person can be dealt with by Japanese whereas the American criminals are whistled away by Uncle Sam.

The crimes are not just sexual, there are may American crimes such as shootings ... and the perpetual environmental ones.



They rebuilt a facsimile in the 90s for the tourists and and stuck the university in it, didn't they?

The 500 year old original was a national treasure until USS Mississippi shelled it for three days. Typical ... no respect for other people's cultures.

Well, if they just got rid of all of the humans there wouldn't be any crime.

[hennagaijin]

Like I say ... the Japanese do, the Okinawans don't. I side with the Okinawans. At present the islands are occupied against their will.

You are making lots of reasonable points.

However, it is a rare American who has the courage or will to critically look at what his/her country does so you are wasting your time debating it here.

I am sure many non-Americans are agreeing with you, but hesitate to comment because they want to avoid the inevitable insults, belittling and berating from the "champions of free speech".

[LD2]

You are making lots of reasonable points.

However, it is a rare American who has the courage or will to critically look at what his/her country does so you are wasting your time debating it here.

I am sure many non-Americans are agreeing with you, but hesitate to comment because they want to avoid the inevitable insults, belittling and berating from the "champions of free speech".

Many Americans agree with BTDT's points. We see the hypocrisy, the double standards...etc. But we also see that when an American does a good deed, it is quickly forgotten, and the haters come back in full force applying the crimes of the few to all.

Seeing so many "anti-American" threads gets pretty boring. I can't speak for other Americans, but what I see is "Waaaa "Waaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Sniffle sniffle Waa~"

I dunno, maybe I should join in.

We had a M&G with quite a few Potters. I thought that a newbie Australian I met would like some hospitality so I invited him. He didnt have enough money on his pasmo to get home after the night of drinking, nor to get to his job interview the next day. So, I put a little on it so that he wouldn't have to worry about it. I paid for his share of the nomihodai as well which was agreed on. No problem.

I guess about a month later I arranged a gokkon with 1 of my students who would bring 2 of her coworkers, both of them rocking in the looks department, and invited him well in advance. "I'll be there", he says.
All 4 of us met at a station close to his, and waited for him. Some time passed by... I sent an email... no reply... "Wait just a little longer, I am sure he will show up.".... wait some more... no reply... send another email "Where are you, both of them are 'smokin' ". ... no reply... "Let's go to the restaurant and wait for him there". ... still no reply... an hour later... "Dude, sorry, I can't make it."
I took a pic of both of them, and sent it with "You missed out".
Haven't contacted him since.

Maybe now I will spend the next 6 months of my life bitching about ALL Australians.





Nah... my life doesn't suck THAT much.

[Shakes Spear]

* I once read a US Navy website what wrote off Perry's incursion as if it was doing a favor for the Japanese! I'll try and dig out if I can.

Why don't you dig out a McGraw-Hill English textbook while you're at it and try to grasp the bare essentials you illiterate third world cave dweller.

[YokohamaTommy]

Sorry, I had a phone call whilst I was still editing but caught the typos now. There was another two.

Now, as I was saying, "How Commodore Perry and the US Navy Saved the Poor Japanese People from their Evil Despotic Rulers ... and How the US Marine Corp, Inc are in Okinawa to Protect Their Freedom Even Today (democracy excluded ... normal terms, conditions and the odd rape and aviation crash still apply)".

So sayeth the White-Japanese high-protector of Nippon.
And historically incorrect as per usual.

[YokohamaTommy]

Politically incorrect perhaps ... which part historically incorrect?

This is a test right?
A test from the Gods?
Umm...

42?

[YokohamaTommy]

No idea what you are talking about.

Now you know how we feel, jack@ss.

[LD2]

No idea what you are talking about.

Meanwhile ... NOISE

Why should Okinawan people suffer noise and pollution levels that would not be permissible if the bases were in the USA?

In a recent case, 22,000 plaintiffs, including about one-third of the population of a town that borders the air base, sued the Japanese government for a night time ban on military flights. The noise is so great, local schools and colleges are unable to carry on lessons as the jet fly overhead.

survey showed that noise-levels exceeded the Japanese environmental standards at 10 out of 13 spots tested near Kadena Air Base and at 6 out of 9 spots tested in the vicinity of Futenma Air Station.

One survey showed that noise-levels exceeded the Japanese environmental standards at 10 out of 13 spots tested near Kadena Air Base, and at 6 out of 9 spots tested in the vicinity of Futenma Air Station.


Most of the land on which the bases were built was forcibly taken from private owners who have had their legal rights denied since.

Many refuse the compensation offered by the US as a matter of principle.

For anyone interested in a snapshot of opinion from the bases, the guys have a dedicated forum of their own, www.okinawajapanforum.com



or even better ...


Jeez ... I think I should be happy to stick with you guys.

When they learn to obey the noise standard laws, so will the military.

HAHAHAHA. Not really. Those are frigging HUGE Jet engines. Of course they are going to make a lot of noise. But pilots gotta learn to fly at night cuz war is not a 9a-5p biz.

[Hijinx]

You know, I've never been to Okinawa. What would be a good place to go there?

[LD2]

You know, I've never been to Okinawa. What would be a good place to go there?

I've never been SCUBA diving, but I hear Okinawa has some great spots there. It seems like a great place to take a kayaking trip