Working on a tourist visa

[Gordon]

I have been recommended by my employer to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change it to a work visa after entering the country if my work visa is not ready by the time my flight leaves. Is this crazy? Wouldn't this jeopardize my future visa? I would be entering with my family, 4 dependents, 10 suitcases, shipping boxes in transit. I don't plan to lie. How moronic would immigration have to be to think I am a tourist?

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

[Effected After]

The policy is that if you are caught working on a tourist visa, you will be expelled from the country at your own expense. If you are willing to risk this, listen to your (very wrong) employer. If you aren't willing to risk this, then you need to get your employer to get your COE before you come to Japan, or find another employer.

I wouldn't risk it - look at the position you'd be in if busted. All it takes is for someone to get annoyed, maybe not even at you, but at the employer, and call immigration, and you are screwed. And immigration in this country don't have a sympathetic ear, they will toss you out regardless of your reasoning behind working on a tourist visa.

[Truth Police]

I have been recommended by my employer to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change it to a work visa after entering the country if my work visa is not ready by the time my flight leaves. Is this crazy? Wouldn't this jeopardize my future visa? I would be entering with my family, 4 dependents, 10 suitcases, shipping boxes in transit. I don't plan to lie. How moronic would immigration have to be to think I am a tourist?

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

Don't even think of it. For starters, you won't be allowed to declare unaccompanied articles (I assume your boxes are coming separately) if you enter as a temporary visitor.

If you were coming by yourself, maybe it's worth trying. But not with a whole family.

What kind of company is this?

[KansaiBen]

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

Tell me, why would some one be entering a country for 90 days with everything but the kitchen sink unless they were planning to live there?

They are quite within their rights to refuse you entry and put you back on the plane if you can not show you have some where to stay and some means of supporting yourself?

What employer means is come in, say you are here to do sightseeing and then change visa once you enter the country/get a sponsor.

Working on a tourist visa is ILLEGAL in any country, including yours.

[Glenski]

What sort of time frame are we talking here? That is, when did you apply for the visa, when are you expected to start work, and how soon does he want you here?

Two suitcases per person is not unheard of for tourists, but if they are huge, it might raise suspicions at immigration or customs, yes. Be sure what is going on before you come.

[ttokyo]

I have been recommended by my employer to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change it to a work visa after entering the country if my work visa is not ready by the time my flight leaves. Is this crazy? Wouldn't this jeopardize my future visa? I would be entering with my family, 4 dependents, 10 suitcases, shipping boxes in transit. I don't plan to lie. How moronic would immigration have to be to think I am a tourist?

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

So it's only a 'fall-back' plan if the visa is not processed or is it likely to happen. What does your contract say ? In any case, it would be ok to be either not paid at all or into a foreign account. Even people on biz trips don't need a visa.
How long have you been with the company so you expect to decide things in your favor if there is any problem ?

[KansaiBen]

I have been recommended by my employer to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change it to a work visa after entering the country if my work visa is not ready by the time my flight leaves. Is this crazy? Wouldn't this jeopardize my future visa? I would be entering with my family, 4 dependents, 10 suitcases, shipping boxes in transit. I don't plan to lie. How moronic would immigration have to be to think I am a tourist?

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

reality check, he's not your employer until you actually enter the country and your visa kicks in and you are eligible to work. Maybe you should say "future employer".

Be a shame to come here and hes changed his mind or moved the goal posts on you and you have shipped your worldly possessions here on no more than a handshake. Even your contract is not valid until you actually start working.

[rtfm]

Even your contract is not valid until you actually start working.

Only if that is a condition of the contract. The details should include a clause that the employer is responsible for the visa and responsible for moving expenses. Start date could be dependent on various factors.

Gordon: you need to read your contract carefully and tell your employer that he really doesn't want to suggest that you do anything illegal, making himself an accessory before the fact.

[KansaiBen]

I have been recommended by my employer to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change it to a work visa after entering the country if my work visa is not ready by the time my flight leaves. Is this crazy? Wouldn't this jeopardize my future visa? I would be entering with my family, 4 dependents, 10 suitcases, shipping boxes in transit. I don't plan to lie. How moronic would immigration have to be to think I am a tourist?

Any official website outlining the procedure and policy from Japanese immigration would be appreciated.

My advice would be to wait until you get your COE from the embassy and then enter Japan on that. You can be sure that your employer will not renege on you and you will have a visa even if something happens. Coming to Japan on a tourist visa doesn't leave much of a safety net because you can still be stopped by immigration at any point. Its not just your employer at this point.

If you are in Japan and your completed visa is at the embassy back home how do you hope to change it to a work visa in Japan? You cant work in Japan until you get your go-ahead from immigration anyway.

[Gordon]

Thanks everyone.

What you have all said is what I expected. I think it happens to be one clueless person giving me extremely bad advice to tell me to come on a tourist visa and then get it changed to a working visa after I arrive here. I told them there is no chance I will come unless i have a work visa first. The problem is my COE may not be ready in time. That is their problem, but it makes it my problem.

I have been in Japan before, so none of this is new to me.

[BackDoor_Man]

Thanks everyone.

What you have all said is what I expected. I think it happens to be one clueless person giving me extremely bad advice to tell me to come on a tourist visa and then get it changed to a working visa after I arrive here. I told them there is no chance I will come unless i have a work visa first. The problem is my COE may not be ready in time. That is their problem, but it makes it my problem.

I have been in Japan before, so none of this is new to me.

If they really want you they will move hell and high water to get your COE approved and to you on time!

[Glenski]

They can't move immigration, Backdoor Man. What do you expect the company to do, bribe someone? Best they can do is explain their own sad urgency.

They simply should have applied sooner, and it's their fault, yes, not the OP's.

[xHime]

My advice would be to wait until you get your COE from the embassy and then enter Japan on that.

Bad idea. A COE does not guarantee a visa, and is not a visa. It's written right on there. He's better off entering on a tourist waiver to begin with than have immigration wonder why he didn't take the two extra days to get his visa processed. It makes him look like he has intent to start working right away and either way they can't let him in as a tourist when he has a piece of paper saying he intends to work.

[xHime]

Thanks everyone.

What you have all said is what I expected. I think it happens to be one clueless person giving me extremely bad advice to tell me to come on a tourist visa and then get it changed to a working visa after I arrive here. I told them there is no chance I will come unless i have a work visa first. The problem is my COE may not be ready in time. That is their problem, but it makes it my problem.

I have been in Japan before, so none of this is new to me.

Wait a second, your COE may not be ready in time for what? For the day they want you to start working? Because, it would be one thing if you had irresponsibly booked a non-changeable flight and you wanted to come early to not lose your tickets but were planning to wait in Japan WITHOUT working while the COE comes through. It's quite another to come to Japan on a tourist visa and start working because your employer wants you to start even though you have no legal permission to work. The former is something an employer COULD say, and that would be fine. The latter is illegal and usually the sign of a scam artist who gets people to work on tourist visas and then doesn't give them a visa or pay them, knowing there's nothing the worker can do since he was working illegally.

[Gordon]

Wait a second, your COE may not be ready in time for what? For the day they want you to start working? Because, it would be one thing if you had irresponsibly booked a non-changeable flight and you wanted to come early to not lose your tickets but were planning to wait in Japan WITHOUT working while the COE comes through. It's quite another to come to Japan on a tourist visa and start working because your employer wants you to start even though you have no legal permission to work. The former is something an employer COULD say, and that would be fine. The latter is illegal and usually the sign of a scam artist who gets people to work on tourist visas and then doesn't give them a visa or pay them, knowing there's nothing the worker can do since he was working illegally.

The COE may not be ready in time to send to me so I can apply for my visa before my flight. The employer is not a scam, it is a university, it is just the person in charge is doing this for the first time and I fear has taken too long to process this in time.

[KansaiBen]

The COE may not be ready in time to send to me so I can apply for my visa before my flight. The employer is not a scam, it is a university, it is just the person in charge is doing this for the first time and I fear has taken too long to process this in time.

As long as you dont have a COE in your hot little hand when you come, then you dont have a visa, period.

You can not work legally until you get a COE or a valid visa stamp and I get the feeling you think because your start date is coming up that should give you the right to come here anyway.

The tail wagging the dog basically.

[ttokyo]

Actually you CAN work, but getting PAID is illegal. Does the employer also pay for flight and housing ? If yes, I'd come anyway and stay at the apartment until the visa is sorted out.

[Glenski]

Originally Posted by KansaiBen
My advice would be to wait until you get your COE from the embassy and then enter Japan on that.

Bad idea. A COE does not guarantee a visa, and is not a visa.

KB knows the difference. However, once a person has the COE in hand, the visa itself comes naturally thereafter. It's only a formality.

Your own advice about coming here as a tourist is precisely what the employer wants him to do. Plenty of scam artists out there willing to prey on unsuspecting people, then let them hang in the wind when they have overstayed a visa. Your own advice is not the best, xHime. But it's early morning and without my dose of caffeine, I find it hard to understand what you wrote.

[xHime]

As long as you dont have a COE in your hot little hand when you come, then you dont have a visa, period.

You can not work legally until you get a COE or a valid visa stamp and I get the feeling you think because your start date is coming up that should give you the right to come here anyway.

The tail wagging the dog basically.

Even if he had a COE he wouldn't have a visa...COE doesn't guarantee a visa and you cannot enter the country on one, it's written at the bottom of it.

[KansaiBen]

Bad idea. A COE does not guarantee a visa, and is not a visa. It's written right on there. He's better off entering on a tourist waiver to begin with than have immigration wonder why he didn't take the two extra days to get his visa processed. It makes him look like he has intent to start working right away and either way they can't let him in as a tourist when he has a piece of paper saying he intends to work.

what is a visa actually? Its basically permission to enter the country. It is cancelled and replaced with a Valid status of Period of Stay, with an expiry date. That is your actual "visa".

If you come from US Australia or Canada etc you dont need to go to the embassy and get a visa stamp but are issued a tourist waiver that allows you into the country as a tourist for sightseeing. Some countries like China or Phillipines require people to get a tourist stamp from the embassy before coming here.

A Certificate of Eligibility is an acknowledgement by immigration or a consulate that you qualify for the (work visa status) and they have completed the paperwork on your visa application. You dont need to go to the embassy to collect your actual work visa stamp but COE acts as a temporary proxy to your visa to show immigration you have legal visa status when you come here. Unless your visa application is fraudulent, or obtained under false pretence you should be issued a work visa after you arrive in Japan.

If he has COE there is no need for him to come as a tourist or on a tourist waiver as he has a de facto resident status stamped in his passport.

[KansaiBen]

Even if he had a COE he wouldn't have a visa...COE doesn't guarantee a visa and you cannot enter the country on one, it's written at the bottom of it.

Splitting hairs here. Only not guaranteed IF and ONLY if the visa application is shown to be fraudulent.


The Certificate of Eligibility does not guarantee the issuance of the visa. The certificate means that the Ministry of Justice certifies that the foreign national meets the condition of landing (entering Japan): the activity which the foreign nationals wish to engage in Japan at the time of the landing examination is not fraudulent, and the activity is qualified to acquire status of residence that is stipulated in the Immigration Control Act, etc. Therefore, in the visa examination process, we do not examine the applicability of status of residence, but some other points such as the verification of the applicant's identity and the validity of his/ her passport. A visa will not be issued, if in the process of examination, it is found that the application does not meet the criteria of visa issuance, or it is determined that the Certificate of Eligibility was issued based on mistaken or fraudulent information.

[Glenski]

The COE may not be ready in time to send to me so I can apply for my visa before my flight. The employer is not a scam, it is a university, it is just the person in charge is doing this for the first time and I fear has taken too long to process this in time.

Since you won't have this when you come, you will have to get a roundtrip ticket, or some other proof that you are going to leave Japan. Airline usually won't let you on the plane otherwise.

[me2]

My advice would be to wait until you get your COE from the embassy and then enter Japan on that.

COE's are not issued by an embassy. They are issued by immigration offices in Japan.

A COE does not guarantee a visa, and is not a visa.

Correct.

It's written right on there. He's better off entering on a tourist waiver to begin with than have immigration wonder why he didn't take the two extra days to get his visa processed. It makes him look like he has intent to start working right away and either way they can't let him in as a tourist when he has a piece of paper saying he intends to work.

Terrible advice.

As long as you dont have a COE in your hot little hand when you come, then you dont have a visa, period.

='As long as you dont have a COE in your hot little hand when you come, have logged an application for the corresponding visa at a Japanese embassy or consulate abroad, then you dont have a visa,period.

However, once a person has the COE in hand, the visa itself comes naturally thereafter. It's only a formality.

I would say that's true, too. OP still needs to apply for his visa at a Japanese embassy or consulate abroad for the visa to be issued.

A Certificate of Eligibility is an acknowledgement by immigration or a consulate that you qualify for the (work visa status)

Correct. However: 'or a consulate' is incorrect. Issuing COE's has nothing to do with Japanese consulates.

You dont need to go to the embassy to collect your actual work visa stamp

Yes you do.

If he has COE...he has a de facto resident status stamped in his passport.

Where did that come from?

Do people know the difference between a COE, visa and status of residence and whether a COE is actually needed in the first place? Do people know who applies for COE's and who applies for visas and who issues them and who issues actual permission to enter the country?

[Glenski]

Originally Posted by KansaiBen
A Certificate of Eligibility is an acknowledgement by immigration or a consulate that you qualify for the (work visa status)

Correct. However: 'or a consulate' is incorrect. Issuing COE's has nothing to do with Japanese consulates.

Quote Originally Posted by KansaiBen
You dont need to go to the embassy to collect your actual work visa stamp

Yes you do.

I think you people are trying to say the same thing, but you are mixing up the situation.
You can get the COE sent to you whether you are in Japan or not, and depending on where you are, you will have to bring it to immigration or an embassy/consulate for processing.

[me2]

I think you people are trying to say the same thing, but you are mixing up the situation.
You can get the COE sent to you whether you are in Japan or not, and depending on where you are, you will have to bring it to immigration or an embassy/consulate for processing.

Yes I know - I was using the OP's situation as a point of reference. He is overseas so the advice in this thread about what to do and where to go...come to Japan on a tourist visa 'you'll be right' attitude is all over the place.
Quite frankly, the OP knew there was a COE application in the works but he went and bought plane tickets without it being issued in time. Lesson learned, perhaps.

My advice would be to wait until you get your COE from the embassy and then enter Japan on that.

You dont need to go to the embassy to collect your actual work visa stamp

These two contradict each other. My point was its important to know where you are in the world in relation to what you need to do to get your visa issued.

If he has COE there is no need for him to come as a tourist or on a tourist waiver as he has a de facto resident status stamped in his passport.

Because he submitted the COE and passport to an embassy/consulate abroad and applied for the visa.
I know what you're saying, Glenski, but sometimes the advice is all over the map.

[meiji]

Actually you CAN work, but getting PAID is illegal.

Is there specific documentation on this anywhere? All I've seen on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs site and the US Consulate in Japan site is that:

1. It's legal to stay in Japan for business
2. It's illegal to work/get paid here.

In the scenario that a Japanese company contracts with an American company to have someone work on-site in Japan, but get paid in the US, are there additional legal hoops to jump through? Is this one of those things that's purposely vague in Japanese law, or is it all documented (in Japanese) somewhere?

Thanks.

[BackDoor_Man]

Is there specific documentation on this anywhere? All I've seen on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs site and the US Consulate in Japan site is that:

1. It's legal to stay in Japan for business
2. It's illegal to work/get paid here.

In the scenario that a Japanese company contracts with an American company to have someone work on-site in Japan, but get paid in the US, are there additional legal hoops to jump through? Is this one of those things that's purposely vague in Japanese law, or is it all documented (in Japanese) somewhere?

Thanks.

There is no way to work on a tourist Visa, It is illegal and if caught a person can be a) deported b) put in jail and finally deported.
However, in your scenario "if a Japanese company contracts with an American company to have someone work on-site in Japan, but get paid in the US". Then that Ja@anese company should make all arrangements and get the workers required paperwork for them. If anyone / a company says to you, "it`s ok to work on a tourist visa" - run

[ttokyo]

Is there specific documentation on this anywhere? All I've seen on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs site and the US Consulate in Japan site is that:

1. It's legal to stay in Japan for business
2. It's illegal to work/get paid here.

In the scenario that a Japanese company contracts with an American company to have someone work on-site in Japan, but get paid in the US, are there additional legal hoops to jump through? Is this one of those things that's purposely vague in Japanese law, or is it all documented (in Japanese) somewhere?

Thanks.

I'm just conveying what our HR lady had received as info from immigration. This is more detailled than the general advice from the consulate.
This situation situation would be similar to people who come over for business trips which is quite common. So e.g. if the company purchased software or machinery from the US and it needs to be set up by someone, the 90-day tourist visa should be enough. But the visa itself is limited to 90 days and thus it's not possible to do this long-term. I found this on a non-immigration site : (http://www.fragomen.com/newsresource...tailFrag.aspx?... )

"BUSINESS VISITORS

Business Visit Defined – A “business visit” is generally a short-term trip taken to conduct business activities for which work authorization is not required in the destination country. Once a foreign national requires work authorization, he or she is no longer considered a “business visitor” from an immigration perspective, even though he or she may be making a very short “visit” to a country for what he or she considers to be “business” purposes.

Allowable Activities – In Japan, business visitors must generally limit their activities to the following:

Attending business meetings or discussions
Negotiating or signing contracts
Conducting market research or surveys
Providing service for machinery, computer software or equipment imported into Japan, provided it is on a post-sales, contractual basis
Touring or inspecting factories or other facilities

If a business trip, even if very brief, will involve activities other than those outlined above, a work permit and visa will typically be required. However, there may be differences between activities permitted by law and those allowed in practice. Additionally, even when activities are limited to those listed above, if the foreign national will generate profit for the host entity, receive compensation from the host entity, or take direction from the host entity, a work permit may be required. Accordingly, it should not be assumed from the list above alone that a business visit is or is not sufficient for a given case. Please contact your immigration professional to confirm requirements for your case. "

[meiji]

I'm just conveying what our HR lady had received as info from immigration. This is more detailled than the general advice from the consulate.

Cool, that answers my question. Thanks!