Why is Japanese marriage declining?

[j814wong]

Why is Japanese marriage declining?

[Genkii]

Because japanese men dont need women anymore to iron their clothes and they can make their bento themselves nowadays.

And with the economic recession a women is just too expensive for most. Why bother?

[KansaiBen]

Why is Japanese marriage declining?

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands. The economic recession too has also killed the hopes of many men wanting to get married.

[Agitator]

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands.

Stop projecting your failure* onto everyone else.

Disgustedly,
A.


*Charitably, your failure was making a bad choice of spouse. Not so charitably, you failed miserably as a husband. I'll leave it at that since it doesn't really make a difference here.

[Since1990]

というか。。。

Who in life doesn't fail? Let's be careful not to be self righteous.

[Agitator]

というか。。。

Who in life doesn't fail? Let's be careful not to be self righteous.

Of course people fail. However, the ones who don't blame everyone else in the world for it are the ones who don't fail [i]all the time[i].

Or have you missed the other 10,000 posts where KansaiBen rails against his ex-wife, her family, his kids, the system that's out to get all his money, etc.?

Unsympathetically,
A.

[TJrandom]

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands. The economic recession too has also killed the hopes of many men wanting to get married.

I'd say that is spot on - but also add, that the traditional reasons for marriage (pooling of resources for survival, strategic linkup between families for economic benefit and to carry forward a family name) are ever declining as a motivator. Japanese women can earn a living on their own and don't need a man's income for economic survival, while dynastic economic motivators are far less important in today’s society.

[nightsdawn]

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands. The economic recession too has also killed the hopes of many men wanting to get married.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but you're just looking at the issue from a male perspective. Many females aren't marrying because they want to focus on their careers or they are happy with their friends and hobbies and don't need to be tied down. I know this female teacher who is in her 60's now. She is very accomplished and has many hobbies, but she has never married. She is satisfied with her life. She can work to support herself and be active in her interests.
In the 70's, 80's or even early 90's, I read that women couldn't support themselves. Even when they worked, they didn't make enough money to live on their own. It was financially impossible to live on their own, but now it isn't. Women don't have to marry to leave their parents house.
Not all women desperately want to get married. More women are putting off marriage or accepting the fact that they won't get married.
It's also because of the lack of confidence some young Japanese men have nowadays (it could be financial confidence as you have mentioned, but also just confidence in general). Japanese girls are traditionally suppose to wait for the man to approach them (I don't know why they still do this). My fiance has a friend who is waiting 8 months to tell this girl that he likes her. He told my fiance that he can't go too fast (he can't throw a fast ball at her), he has to slowly make his feelings known. The girl is going to move on before he makes his move! My other friend said that it took this one guy over a year to ask her out even though he has been flirting with her all this time....a year! By then she was too tired of waiting and lost interest. There are many of these guys in Japan nowadays (vegetable eaters is their nickname I heard). I didn't wait for my fiance to ask me out, I totally took the first step. He was pretty happy, but it always shocks Japanese people. Oh, the girl made the first move. Obviously, I let him make the most important move on his own time (proposal).
I have a beautiful and kind Japanese female friend who told me she is satisfied with not getting married at all. I was surprised because I know she is such a nice and pretty girl. But she is now 30(not old at all in my opinion) and feels that it's too late for her or that she doesn't have to get married. I really don't know why Japanese girls feel that once they hit 30, the time for marriage or romance is dead. It's only 30!!
But I agree with you on the economy playing a big role in the decrease of marriages. But last year I heard that there was an increase in the desire to marry. After the earthquake, more people joined agencies that set up couples with the intentions of marrying.

[j814wong]

I'd say that is spot on - but also add, that the traditional reasons for marriage (pooling of resources for survival, strategic linkup between families for economic benefit and to carry forward a family name) are ever declining as a motivator. Japanese women can earn a living on their own and don't need a man's income for economic survival, while dynastic economic motivators are far less important in today’s society.

So women are not marrying as much because they don't want to be tied to men and remain as housewifes their entire lifes. Theoretically, if a man were to agree that both he and the wife would work outside the home and both raise children together so one is not stuck being the housewife or househusband, all other factors aside, would a Japanese woman be more likely to marry the man if he proposed?

Sociology is interesting

[j814wong]

I agree with some of what you are saying, but you're just looking at the issue from a male perspective. Many females aren't marrying because they want to focus on their careers or they are happy with their friends and hobbies and don't need to be tied down. I know this female teacher who is in her 60's now. She is very accomplished and has many hobbies, but she has never married. She is satisfied with her life. She can work to support herself and be active in her interests.
In the 70's, 80's or even early 90's, I read that women couldn't support themselves. Even when they worked, they didn't make enough money to live on their own. It was financially impossible to live on their own, but now it isn't. Women don't have to marry to leave their parents house.
Not all women desperately want to get married. More women are putting off marriage or accepting the fact that they won't get married.
It's also because of the lack of confidence some young Japanese men have nowadays (it could be financial confidence as you have mentioned, but also just confidence in general). Japanese girls are traditionally suppose to wait for the man to approach them (I don't know why they still do this). My fiance has a friend who is waiting 8 months to tell this girl that he likes her. He told my fiance that he can't go too fast (he can't throw a fast ball at her), he has to slowly make his feelings known. The girl is going to move on before he makes his move! My other friend said that it took this one guy over a year to ask her out even though he has been flirting with her all this time....a year! By then she was too tired of waiting and lost interest. There are many of these guys in Japan nowadays (vegetable eaters is their nickname I heard). I didn't wait for my fiance to ask me out, I totally took the first step. He was pretty happy, but it always shocks Japanese people. Oh, the girl made the first move. Obviously, I let him make the most important move on his own time (proposal).
I have a beautiful and kind Japanese female friend who told me she is satisfied with not getting married at all. I was surprised because I know she is such a nice and pretty girl. But she is now 30(not old at all in my opinion) and feels that it's too late for her or that she doesn't have to get married. I really don't know why Japanese girls feel that once they hit 30, the time for marriage or romance is dead. It's only 30!!
But I agree with you on the economy playing a big role in the decrease of marriages. But last year I heard that there was an increase in the desire to marry. After the earthquake, more people joined agencies that set up couples with the intentions of marrying.

Any reason why young Japanese men have less confidence now? Also, how do young Japanese women feel about foreigners or Gaijin particularly males from America who are generally more assertive when it comes to dating.

Some people say that a man's wealth is an important factor in deciding to marry him or not. However, if most women can be self sufficient, would this use of teh wealth factor be for the women who still cannot be self sufficient?

So the decline in marriage is due largely to a growing desire for independence that most Japanese men may not accept because they want a housewife? If the duty in raising a family were evening distributed, would women be more willing to marry?

[Since1990]

Of course people fail. However, the ones who don't blame everyone else in the world for it are the ones who don't fail [i]all the time[i].

Or have you missed the other 10,000 posts where KansaiBen rails against his ex-wife, her family, his kids, the system that's out to get all his money, etc.?

Unsympathetically,
A.

But where would gaijinpot be without KansaiBen?
Come on, we all love him, don't we?

[lennonix]

Why is Japanese marriage declining?

Call me crazy but it's probably the fact that their managers expect them to work 10-12 hours a day and the average commute time is 75 minutes one-way.

[Tuneafish]

Stop projecting your failure* onto everyone else.

Disgustedly,
A.


*Charitably, your failure was making a bad choice of spouse. Not so charitably, you failed miserably as a husband. I'll leave it at that since it doesn't really make a difference here.

Did that guy kill your cat or something to make you hate him that much? lol

[KansaiBen]

Did that guy kill your cat or something to make you hate him that much? lol

thats what happens to people who have small dicks.

[TJrandom]

So women are not marrying as much because they don't want to be tied to men and remain as housewifes their entire lifes. Theoretically, if a man were to agree that both he and the wife would work outside the home and both raise children together so one is not stuck being the housewife or househusband, all other factors aside, would a Japanese woman be more likely to marry the man if he proposed?

Sociology is interesting

I think that it is more that people – both women and men, simply move on with life – start jobs, and don’t get pressured into marriage economically, or socially. The longer it is put off – the harder it becomes, as there are fewer available partners plus expectations have risen. After all – as careers progress there is an expectation that incomes will have risen too, and in this global economy – that will not always be the case.

I know a 40+ never married woman who frequently talks of wanting to get married – but she has a good job and income, works long hours, and expects any potential mates to earn over 20m. So what are her chances? Slim, I’d say.

[KansaiBen]

I know a 40+ never married woman who frequently talks of wanting to get married – but she has a good job and income, works long hours, and expects any potential mates to earn over 20m. So what are her chances? Slim, I’d say.

dont forget also many people are on the second time around. Many women are single mothers with kids, have been out of the job loop for a while to raise kids and not many men are willing to take on kids as well.

40% of the Japanese work force are now part time, working in contract type or dispatch positions and in general the labour market is very unstable. Who wants to marry if you don't know if you have a job next year?

add to that the fact that 40% of people between 18 and 25 are currently not having sex or have a boyfriend/girlfriend (and I'm not making that up either)

[hennagaijin]

Sweeping generalizations with no scientific fact:

Looking at drawings of 20-12-3 girls in the konbini on Saturday night is less scary than actually dating a real woman...

No testosterone - no sex drive.

No communication skills to any depth.
No REAL relationships to any depth.

Segregation of males and females (mentally if not physically) from when they are born..
both see the other as alien.

Dudes who never grow past the "mummy looking after me" phase of relationships with women.

Of course there are exceptions... occasionally.

[cucashopboy]

Sweeping generalizations with no scientific fact:

Looking at drawings of 20-12-3 girls in the konbini on Saturday night is less scary than actually dating a real woman...

What's a 20-12-3 girl? Google wasn't very helpful for once.

[Meguroblonde]

OP, if your "dream" is to move to Japan and find a Japanese wife, you will have no problem. Millions of single women. Just be respectful, kind, and communicative. Don't over think it all.

I might be reading between the lines wrong, in which case this doesn't apply to you but to other guys who actually have that "dream" who might be reading this thread.

Maybe you'll save the day by using your gaijin sensibilities and letting her be independent. You'll win her over that way, if she's that kind of woman. If she's the kind that can't wait to pack in her job and stay home (there are many and I don't blame them!), then you'll need money no matter how many people on gaijinpot say it doesn't matter.

Just relax, meet women, find one with whom you click, propose. You'll be fine. There are a lot of stereotypes but when two people are living together year after year, they make their own rules and their own culture.

[TJrandom]

What's a 20-12-3 girl? Google wasn't very helpful for once.

20 years of age, looks to be 12, has the mentality of a 3 year old? Just guessing....

[hennagaijin]

What's a 20-12-3 girl? Google wasn't very helpful for once.

"20-12-3 formula girls" will work on Google

20 year old body - 12 year old face - 3 year old voice

as per most anime girls...

[Seattlegirl]

"20-12-3 formula girls" will work on Google

20 year old body - 12 year old face - 3 year old voice

as per most anime girls...

Well, if I was a guy, I'd find this to be A LOT HOTTER:



Man, that girl KICKS A$S!

[cucashopboy]

"20-12-3 formula girls" will work on Google

20 year old body - 12 year old face - 3 year old voice

as per most anime girls...

Oh dear.
Thanks for enlightening me.

[Agitator]

Did that guy kill your cat or something to make you hate him that much? lol

I don't hate him. I don't know him. I certainly don't care about him.

But his old schtick of hating all Japanese women and as a result misadvising naive posters here should not go unchallenged. Anyone who takes his advice on any relationship or family matters is definitely a sucker.

Blessedly,
A.

[j814wong]

Oh yes, back to the topic. Answer: Who cares.

Economists care. Sociologists care. I'm interested to know why.

[edin日本]

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands. The economic recession too has also killed the hopes of many men wanting to get married.

KB, when did you get married? Back in the 70's or early 80's?

[ttokyo]

So women are not marrying as much because they don't want to be tied to men and remain as housewifes their entire lifes. Theoretically, if a man were to agree that both he and the wife would work outside the home and both raise children together so one is not stuck being the housewife or househusband, all other factors aside, would a Japanese woman be more likely to marry the man if he proposed?

Sociology is interesting

With this agreement, the risk is that the man still wants the wife to do housework chores, so she might end up having twice the work. Aslo, having kids is another large cut into your personal freedom, so the intention not to have kids might actually be the reason not to get married, not the other way around.

[KansaiBen]

KB, when did you get married? Back in the 70's or early 80's?

1992, tail end of the economic bubble. Dated 3 years before that.

[edin日本]

1992, tail end of the economic bubble. Dated 3 years before that.

60's to 80's era everyone was being fed the woman is the stay at home, keeps the house and handles the money BS. My ex and your's were spoonfed this myth and others. When I came to Japan everything closed up at 5pm except for the bars, the gambling joints, soaplands and sex for sale shops. If you wanted personal spending money from the bank you had to go and wait in line at lunch or get the wife to get it for you.

A lot of things were different back then. And there were lots of reasons for a Jgirl to hook up with a gaijin–the least of which was the big boost in status they got from marrying us as well as the image that we made more money that the stupid, hardworking, grossly underpaid salaryman that their family was probably pushing them to marry.

Times changed, we changed and the women we married were expecting things to stay the same. We both got a sh!tty deal, I came back from an overseas trip to find my ex cheating on me, you found out yours had driven you to the brink of bankruptcy. Which was worse?

Now, I've rolled with the punches and moved on! I get to talk to my kids. I still don't and won't talk to the b!tch from hell. But, overall I don't dwell on it, have moved on and don't wallow in it. I suggest you do the same.

Now, as to your kids, I have some ideas regarding trust funds and stipulations regarding such that might be interesting. Interested?

[YokohamaTommy]

60's to 80's era everyone was being fed the woman is the stay at home, keeps the house and handles the money BS.

Who says it's B.S.?
Wife staying at home saved a small fortune and the children were happier.
'Course that may change as the family economy does, and we're both fine with that.
But I wouldn't say it's brainwashing to make a decision for one member to stay at home.

I'd also mention that doesn't Japan have a history of the whole men/women defined roles that go back centuries?

Then again, things are going in a very positive way I think with women being more and more empowered to decide that for themselves.

[ozzijp]

Japanese women demand too much from a marriage partner and Japanese men nowadays dont earn enough to satisfy their demands.

Pretty much true. The inverse also applies. J guys expect more of their wives. It's a 2 way street.

However, no one has yet come out with a "new-age" prospectus so the J-people as a group don't really know what to do. This is a crew that loves to be led. KB, could you be the messiah?

[YokohamaTommy]

This universe does not give a damn about your own personal morality; mother nature plays hard ball. This universe punishes stupidity more than anything else... and what better way to keep people stupid than to suppress data and introduce a little bit more insecurity in to everyone's lives: Contain, box, and conceal information - keep it closed, keep in under lock and key.

The main problem with the Universe segregating anything is that there's no place to segregate anything to, as anywhere you would select would still be the Universe.
For that matter, there's nothing to punish, or judge, or segregate or be moral about.
In short:
This game kicks a$$.

Result: Everyone conforms to your warped world view. Feel safe now?

I can verify for a fact that as others pointed out, Youtube for one has volunteers who specifically deny or remove videos based on nothing other than their own discretion, and it's not even unheard of to surreptitiously eliminate competitors in this way. Google's as evil as it goes now.
They control pretty much the internet in the free world, they do as they please, and you can't do a damn thing about it.

[ume]

Why is Japanese marriage declining?

I would be more interested to know "why is Japanese divorce increasing."

I think that would give you ALL your answers.

[edin日本]

I would be more interested to know "why is Japanese divorce increasing."

I think that would give you ALL your answers.

Good question, any ideas?

[Seattlegirl]

This universe does not give a damn about your own personal morality; mother nature plays hard ball. This universe punishes stupidity more than anything else... and what better way to keep people stupid than to suppress data and introduce a little bit more insecurity in to everyone's lives: Contain, box, and conceal information - keep it closed, keep in under lock and key.

The universe is not responsible for this view you espouse, people are. People are not the universe. The universe is fine; people can be f^cked up.

[j814wong]

I would be more interested to know "why is Japanese divorce increasing."

I think that would give you ALL your answers.

So the two buig questions are "Why are Japanese marriages failing and leading to divorce?" and "Why are marriage rates declining?" Though the latter has a lot fo answers, there's still no concrete one yet.

[KansaiBen]

So the two buig questions are "Why are Japanese marriages failing and leading to divorce?" and "Why are marriage rates declining?" Though the latter has a lot fo answers, there's still no concrete one yet.

Maybe because there is no one "smoking gun" answer but a combination of many factors.

Last year I read some good books on why women in the US are unable to find suitable mates and keep them when they are looking for marriage partners. Makes interesting reading but a little more involved than can be written in 3 lines on an Internet forum.

If you ever see the movie "He's just not that into you" it's based on a book by the same name, its a good read and I think a lot of what it says applies to Japan as well and you cant say there is a huge variation in behavior because this is "Japan".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1001508/plotsummary

[YokohamaTommy]

People are not the universe. The universe is fine; people can be f^cked up.

If people are not the Universe, then are they apart from it?
Were you placed here, or is it more accurate to say that you emerged (as a product) from?

If then, there is no logical separation from people and the Universe, and since one cannot obtain intelligence from a non-intelligent Universe,
this indicates the Universe has intelligence. (As we are proof that it does.)

So according to this logic, the Universe is f^cked up. Since the Universe is perfect, this is not possible.
Therefore we are left with the understanding that states of f^cked up or non-f^cked up are linked entirely to human desires.
i.e., the other person is not behaving as I wish them to, therefore they are f^cked up in my perception.

[Genkii]

If people are not the Universe, then are they apart from it?
Were you placed here, or is it more accurate to say that you emerged (as a product) from?

If then, there is no logical separation from people and the Universe, and since one cannot obtain intelligence from a non-intelligent Universe,
this indicates the Universe has intelligence. (As we are proof that it does.)

So according to this logic, the Universe is f^cked up. Since the Universe is perfect, this is not possible.
Therefore we are left with the understanding that states of f^cked up or non-f^cked up are linked entirely to human desires.
i.e., the other person is not behaving as I wish them to, therefore they are f^cked up in my perception.

This is too intellectual for me..

Stick with your jokes. They are better.

[YokohamaTommy]

Stick with your jokes. They are better.

Very well.
Have you had sexual interactions with another live human being as of yet?