Threat to Okinawa by the foolish and shameful Japanese Govt.

[rad]

http://www.change.org/petitions/say-...ris-in-okinawa

Please sign the petition above to hinder the insanity of the arrogant and delusional J. Govt.

[rad]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_845818.html

The blind trust, and innocent faith placed in the J. Govt. and Big business in Japan has to end.

Avoidable mistakes led to too many deaths, too much suffering, and now a toxic zone of radiation.

To even contemplate spreading their shame and failure is a crime in itself.

Nuclear energy was an evil that should have been safer, should have been better planned, and should not still be potentially crippling to such an earthquake prone country.

In such a traditional society, why were the past generations ignored?

In a country that has already seen the horrors of nuclear destruction, why was Nuclear power so widely used?

And why does Okinawa keep on being treated like a 3rd class citizen by the left over Imperial powers of yesteryear?

Clean up your own mess Yamato, and do not entertain the disgraceful idea of sharing the burden with a people that have been mistreated for far too long.

What a shameful government. Stagnant old men whose path narrowly leads to a late night snack. Need I say more?

[kurogane]

Tearjerkers of the world, UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have nothing to lose but your stains!!!!!!!!

[BackDoor_Man]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_845818.html

The blind trust, and innocent faith placed in the J. Govt. and Big business in Japan has to end.

Avoidable mistakes led to too many deaths, too much suffering, and now a toxic zone of radiation.

To even contemplate spreading their shame and failure is a crime in itself.

Nuclear energy was an evil that should have been safer, should have been better planned, and should not still be potentially crippling to such an earthquake prone country.

In such a traditional society, why were the past generations ignored?

In a country that has already seen the horrors of nuclear destruction, why was Nuclear power so widely used?

And why does Okinawa keep on being treated like a 3rd class citizen by the left over Imperial powers of yesteryear?

Clean up your own mess Yamato, and do not entertain the disgraceful idea of sharing the burden with a people that have been mistreated for far too long.

What a shameful government. Stagnant old men whose path narrowly leads to a late night snack. Need I say more?

Seems that you are blaming an Organization that deserves no blame in your post. The deaths you mentioned were caused bu a Tsunami (a natural disater) which the Japanese government can not be blamed for as well as the nuclear meltdown, which again the Japanese government could not have prevented. I signed the petition having lived in Okinawa for a number of years but please get your facts straight and put blame were it belongs and that is with the people themselves who built homes in the areas that were swamped by the Tsunami, they should have know better. Like the people who build homes on mountain sides, when there is a well known history of mudslides, that is simply dumb!

The Japanese government needs to come up with a better plan to get rid of the nuclear debris, and the governor of Okinawa or any prefecture, should get thrown out of office if he/they agree to accept it.

[rad]

Kurogane, You are still here!

I've missed you.

[rad]

Back_door man, Not sure how you read my post, but I did not blame the J. Govt. for the Tsunami, it is in part responsible for the deaths of the people and destruction caused by the Nuclear Meltdown, better town planning and energy policies might not go astray.

I mentioned that blind trust and innocent faith in the Govt. has to end.

And taking notice of where to build, from ancestors, could have saved most, as the villages that took notice survived. Why does the population need to be so great in a small country anyway, something the Govt. could've managed better I suppose, a challenge in Asia, yes. Govt's also are involved in town planning, safety reports, sustainability reports etc. etc. and they love doing these studies and reports. The Govt. safety standards and TEPCO's were exceeded by an 'unimaginable' Tsunami and earthquake, seems that they all need to learn how to 'imagine' a bit better.

The J. Govt. is responsible for the promotion of, and widespread adoption and use of Nuclear power, no doubt. It is them that are frantically trying to keep many 'unsafe' reactors offline now, and reassess the whole country's nuclear strategy, thanks to the former Prime Minister, not the greedy old men that line their pockets with TEPCO money.

[Deathblob]

Back_door man, Not sure how you read my post, but I did not blame the J. Govt. for the Tsunami, it is in part responsible for the deaths of the people and destruction caused by the Nuclear Meltdown, better town planning and energy policies might not go astray.

At max, one person died as a result of the meltdown. A total of five people died at the reactor: 3 from the earthquake/tsunami, 1 heart attack, and one undisclosed reason (but not relation to radiation).

[edin日本]

Ahhhh, our old friend NIMBY raises his head. I fully agree that the prefectures should refuse to accept any of this debris but, that still leaves us with a problem of where to store it and reduce it to a harmless state. I would suggest that the JGov't builds such a place on that disputed island in the Japan Sea and also another in the disputed area in the Spratleys. Doing so would stake their claims to the areas in question and cause the Koreans and the Chinese to back off or be saddled with radioactive mess.

[thefg]

Back_door man, Not sure how you read my post, but I did not blame the J. Govt. for the Tsunami, it is in part responsible for the deaths of the people and destruction caused by the Nuclear Meltdown

what deaths?


nobody has died from radiation. the only deaths that i know of were plant workers who died due to explosion due to tsunami
what was that 2 deaths?

And taking notice of where to build, from ancestors, could have saved most, as the villages that took notice survived. Why does the population need to be so great in a small country anyway, something the Govt. could've managed better I suppose, a challenge in Asia, yes. Govt's also are involved in town planning, safety reports, sustainability reports etc. etc. and they love doing these studies and reports. The Govt. safety standards and TEPCO's were exceeded by an 'unimaginable' Tsunami and earthquake, seems that they all need to learn how to 'imagine' a bit better.

The J. Govt. is responsible for the promotion of, and widespread adoption and use of Nuclear power, no doubt. It is them that are frantically trying to keep many 'unsafe' reactors offline now, and reassess the whole country's nuclear strategy, thanks to the former Prime Minister, not the greedy old men that line their pockets with TEPCO money.

what a tit. the gov wanted nuclear for the same reason almost all countries do....its the only real practical choice right now and


-and this is the fun part - BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT


Thousands die each year world wide and the world is dying in part due to fossil fuel (the only viable alternative currently) - how many nuclear deaths from dai ichi?........

hell how many chinese miners die each year mining for coal?


and as for refusing to accept tsunami debris - yes lets ignore the fact that the huge majority of the masses of tsunami (not nuclear) debris is not radioactive to any degree whatso ever


nobody is dumping radioactive waste


so yes lets all stop believing what the gov says and instead believe the crap enviro-mentalists like you spout - crap which is factually incorrect at worse and a gross exaggeration at best

[edin日本]

Still it's better for the region if the government builds facilities to handle the waste on site and employs the local people. This was the method used to handle the Kobe Earthquake debris–if it was good enough back then, then it should be a viable option now.

[thefg]

The Japanese government needs to come up with a better plan to get rid of the tsunami debris, and the governor of Okinawa or any prefecture, should get thrown out of office if he/they do not agree to accept it .

fixed it for you

[thefg]

Still it's better for the region if the government builds facilities to handle the waste on site and employs the local people. This was the method used to handle the Kobe Earthquake debris–if it was good enough back then, then it should be a viable option now.

they have and they are.

massive faciliies


but where does the processed waste go? the wood waste the steel waste the rubble and concrete? You do get that the people live on the coast there because land is sparce and Kobe burnt to the ground - different scenario


and what local people? the people who cant live there at the moment because of all the debris and no chance to build new houses until its all cleared? Those people, the ones mostly over age 65? You do realise the scale of the clean up right? This is not a job for small companies or communities its a massive undertaking

[rad]

Considering another Tsunami will come along within the next 100 or so years, no-one should be living in that area again.

Simple, bury it all in that area. The half life of that radioactive debris is about 52 years, to be half as radioactive as it is now.

Another 52 years to be half as radioactive again, and so on.

Considering another impending disastrous earthquake and tsunami, shipping and moving all of that debris to make the area what? Safe? Is the worst joke of the century.

Will they again repeat their mistakes?

And Nuclear energy being safe is another ridiculous joke.

Maybe cutting down the lighting in Japan, the millions of drink machines, overly chilled supermarkets, convenience stores, department stores etc. could reduce Nuclear dependence for a start.

The brightest country on earth may need to cut back and learn to be more ENERGY EFFICIENT. That would be a smart start.

[rad]

http://vimeo.com/38373787

A few dead from the Nuclear power plant?

You should read more.

There were several cases of kids getting sick from infant formula made in Saitama after the accident, for example. Seems that the baby formula company were drying things out in the open air.

Lots of kids getting blood noses in Chiba, and lots of contaminated beef sold around Japan, even in school lunches! A Govt. I do not trust. Even rice and other products which were contaminated were found to be sold around Japan, insane, no?

Lots of other things you won't hear about either, but watch the cancer rates skyrocket over the next 20--30yrs or more. The invisible death has spread far and wide.

[rad]

http://enenews.com/forum-about-japan...oactive-debris

The last part is really important to watch.

[Deathblob]

http://vimeo.com/38373787

A few dead from the Nuclear power plant?

You should read more.

There were several cases of kids getting sick from infant formula made in Saitama after the accident, for example. Seems that the baby formula company were drying things out in the open air.

Lots of kids getting blood noses in Chiba, and lots of contaminated beef sold around Japan, even in school lunches! A Govt. I do not trust. Even rice and other products which were contaminated were found to be sold around Japan, insane, no?

Lots of other things you won't hear about either, but watch the cancer rates skyrocket over the next 20--30yrs or more. The invisible death has spread far and wide.

Gundersen’s company, Fairewinds Associates, is a for-profit company that hires him out to provide expert testimony and write research papers for anti-nuclear groups. He has a lot to gain then by making sure his appearances in the media make nuclear power sound dangerous.

[John Grey]

http://www.change.org/petitions/say-...ris-in-okinawa

Please sign the petition above to hinder the insanity of the arrogant and delusional J. Govt.

I am convinced that a petition, especially one in the english language, will persuade the japanese Government... bru,ha, ha....

[John Grey]

Still it's better for the region if the government builds facilities to handle the waste on site and employs the local people. This was the method used to handle the Kobe Earthquake debris–if it was good enough back then, then it should be a viable option now.

Why am I not really surprised that the obvious thing does not occur to the japanese government?
By now everyone has probably seen the maps with true radiation figures, areas to the north-west and to the south of Fukushima. Not only should the people still living there be immediately removed, but as this area will remain uninhabitable for the next several thousand years, it is clearly the obviously best place to store that garbage.
But any japanese government will be too busy to think about this as they have the problem, to sell the radiated produce and fish from Tohoku to the pliable japanese public... Well, what to say... Any people that buys shite like that does not really deserve any different.

[thefg]

Considering another Tsunami will come along within the next 100 or so years, no-one should be living in that area again.

Simple, bury it all in that area. The half life of that radioactive debris is about 52 years, to be half as radioactive as it is now.

Another 52 years to be half as radioactive again, and so on.

Considering another impending disastrous earthquake and tsunami, shipping and moving all of that debris to make the area what? Safe? Is the worst joke of the century.

Will they again repeat their mistakes?

And Nuclear energy being safe is another ridiculous joke.

Maybe cutting down the lighting in Japan, the millions of drink machines, overly chilled supermarkets, convenience stores, department stores etc. could reduce Nuclear dependence for a start.

The brightest country on earth may need to cut back and learn to be more ENERGY EFFICIENT. That would be a smart start.

once again for the slow eco-mentalist


very very little of the massive amount of debris (peoples houses, cars, belongings, roads, buildings etc) is radioactive, and none of it thats being distributed is in anyway dangerously radioactive.

but dont let the facts get in the way of a good BS rant

[thefg]

http://vimeo.com/38373787

A few dead from the Nuclear power plant?

You should read more.

There were several cases of kids getting sick from infant formula made in Saitama after the accident, for example. Seems that the baby formula company were drying things out in the open air.

Lots of kids getting blood noses in Chiba, and lots of contaminated beef sold around Japan, even in school lunches! A Govt. I do not trust. Even rice and other products which were contaminated were found to be sold around Japan, insane, no?

any of them dead?

No so the fact you stated is wrong and the fact we stated is right



The rest is just speculation. You have no facts to prove it.


The facts do not support your hysteria

The cases after Chernobyl was because the authorities knowingly let kids drink highly contaminated milk for months. Its not what happened here. The fact you are aware of what milk products and what meet products were found contaminated is evidence that the authorities were a) monitoring and b) being honest about it and c) preventing people being at risk.

Lots of other things you won't hear about either, but watch the cancer rates skyrocket over the next 20--30yrs or more. The invisible death has spread far and wide.

fact: everyone knows exactly how much radition we were exposed to (every tom ____ and harry has a meter there was never anyway anyone could hide it

fact: based on years of scientific study we know how the chances of cancer increases with both exposure level and duration.

fact: based on the exposures that the risk in cancers is negligable.

fact: the increase in cancer rates is expected to be so slight as to likely be unmeasureable


If you dont believe that last part go do some research yourself instead of spouting BS here

HINT: Try reading international scientific publications instead getting all your "facts" from greenpeace website.

[thefg]

areas to the north-west and to the south of Fukushima. Not only should the people still living there be immediately removed, but as this area will remain uninhabitable for the next several thousand years,.

no it wont.

the radiation can be cleaned up easily by removal of topsoil or by mixing 1m or so of topsoil. none of that land will be "uninhabitable for 1000s of years"

and once again most of the debris is not radioactive so why dump it there when it can be recycled and reused.

[thefg]

Gundersen’s company, Fairewinds Associates, is a for-profit company that hires him out to provide expert testimony and write research papers for anti-nuclear groups. He has a lot to gain then by making sure his appearances in the media make nuclear power sound dangerous.

hes been largely discredited

[thefg]

And Nuclear energy being safe is another ridiculous joke.

suggest you educate yourself on modern nuclear plant design v what we have in japan.

in modern reactors the cooling system is intrinsically safe.

You can just turn it off and walk away it cant melt down as they are designed to be able to lose heat without help

The problem is not with nuclear power - the problem is we are using very very old badly designed non intrincallay safe nuclear reactors that were designed in the 50s and 60s! Its like a new car and a car from the 60s cant be judged fairly as equal when it comes to surviving a car crash. Modern cars are more intrinsically safe with their crash structures. To ban cars now because granny just got crushed driving a 50 year old car in non nonsensical. What we should do is BAN OLD DESIGNS OF NUCLEAR REACTORS

Have a guess why we cant switch to the safer deisgns? Go on guess? Guess why we are largely stuck with these 50/60 year old designed plants......eco-mentalists like you who stop new plants being built.

Same reason why there was so much spent fuel at fukushima and why it was so much more dangerous - eco-metalists stopped gov building off site storage and treatment facilities. The biggest risk at fukushima was all spent fuel and that was there becuase of the stupid eco-mentalists!


and again - there is currently no alternative. (fossil fuels kill more)

[John Grey]

no it wont.

the radiation can be cleaned up easily by removal of topsoil or by mixing 1m or so of topsoil. none of that land will be "uninhabitable for 1000s of years"

and once again most of the debris is not radioactive so why dump it there when it can be recycled and reused.

By now I am so inspired by your splendid commentaries, that I have decicded to honour you with putting you on my list. Only very few manage to achieve that.

It is called the "american's list"

PS: Ooops, my mistake, it is off course called the "Ignore list"...

[thefg]

By now I am so inspired by your splendid commentaries, that I have decicded to honour you with putting you on my list. Only very few manage to achieve that.

It is called the "american's list"

PS: Ooops, my mistake, it is off course called the "Ignore list"...

thats what i love about eco-mentalists...the way they ignore the facts that dont fit their view of things.


my post was factual (re: decontamination methods and effectiveness), if you cant argue the facts i guess you may as well ignore them...

[rad]

Ahhhh, our old friend NIMBY raises his head. I fully agree that the prefectures should refuse to accept any of this debris but, that still leaves us with a problem of where to store it and reduce it to a harmless state. I would suggest that the JGov't builds such a place on that disputed island in the Japan Sea and also another in the disputed area in the Spratleys. Doing so would stake their claims to the areas in question and cause the Koreans and the Chinese to back off or be saddled with radioactive mess.

Better idea than the J. Govt has. They don't think that smartly or cunningly I guess.

[rad]

I am convinced that a petition, especially one in the english language, will persuade the japanese Government... bru,ha, ha....

The news is going around the world in English, would not travel far or reach too many understanding eyes and ears otherwise. It can always be translated too, better something in English than nothing.

Or worse still, a sad circle jerk of egos on internet forums, lol.

[rad]

once again for the slow eco-mentalist


very very little of the massive amount of debris (peoples houses, cars, belongings, roads, buildings etc) is radioactive, and none of it thats being distributed is in anyway dangerously radioactive.

but dont let the facts get in the way of a good BS rant

Regardless of that, if anywhere near the truth, how is it Okinawa's problem??

The Japanese have attacked Okinawa, used it as a Battlefield to keep the barbarians from attacking the precious mainland in WWII, forced their suicidal beliefs on the Okinawans, mistreated them, underfunded them, treated them as 3rd class citizens, made them bare the burden of around 70% of U.S. bases in Japan, falsely promised to relocate Marines from Okinawa to another prefecture, NONE of which want to share that BURDEN with Okinawa, and now, they have another sinister plot?

They want to share radioactive debris that is 'safe' to burn? Please look at Japan's 'safety' standards in regard to this debris, just like the limits workers at Fukushima were allowed to endure were safe?

Just like all of the different food that has made it to people's tables in Japan was safe?

Just like the exclusion zone of 30km was safe?

The Japanese may swallow that gullible pill, not the international community.

[thefg]

Regardless of that, if anywhere near the truth, how is it Okinawa's problem??

okinawa is part of japan.

The Japanese have attacked Okinawa, used it as a Battlefield to keep the barbarians from attacking the precious mainland in WWII, forced their suicidal beliefs on the Okinawans, mistreated them, underfunded them, treated them as 3rd class citizens, made them bare the burden of around 70% of U.S. bases in Japan, falsely promised to relocate Marines from Okinawa to another prefecture, NONE of which want to share that BURDEN with Okinawa, and now, they have another sinister plot?

irrelevant

They want to share radioactive debris that is 'safe' to burn?

no they want to share debris, a very small percentage of which has a radiation level that poses no risk.

Just like all of the different food that has made it to people's tables in Japan was safe?

Just like the exclusion zone of 30km was safe?

The Japanese may swallow that gullible pill, not the international community.

sorry but the international standards are in line (some stricter) than the govs, also the increase risk of cancer even several times the standard rate provides for increased risk of cancer thats almost negligable


They have been burning this debris in Tokyo - none zero nada zilch increase in background radiation has been observed in my office from which i can see the incinerator

[edin日本]

Considering another Tsunami will come along within the next 100 or so years, no-one should be living in that area again.

Simple, bury it all in that area. The half life of that radioactive debris is about 52 years, to be half as radioactive as it is now.

Another 52 years to be half as radioactive again, and so on.

Considering another impending disastrous earthquake and tsunami, shipping and moving all of that debris to make the area what? Safe? Is the worst joke of the century.

Will they again repeat their mistakes?

And Nuclear energy being safe is another ridiculous joke.

Maybe cutting down the lighting in Japan, the millions of drink machines, overly chilled supermarkets, convenience stores, department stores etc. could reduce Nuclear dependence for a start.

The brightest country on earth may need to cut back and learn to be more ENERGY EFFICIENT. That would be a smart start.

Well for starters they could seal the actual radioactive waste in containers and store it in the no go zone around the damaged reactors. That area will be unsafe for at least 300 years so they could keep it there.

Metals, plastics and non burnable waste can be recycled. Metals can be resmelted either domestically or sent off to India where they've made it a business to salvage potentially dangerous materials–the little brown fellows will even pay for the materials and the shipping and will still make a profit. The burnable waste can be incinerated in co-generative incinerators of which there must still be a number of them in the prefecture.

As for the energy problem, I've noticed that a lot of innovative energy producing products/projects have been designed and built by Japanese companies and implemented outside the country. MHI has been working with various groups to develop cutting edge alternative energy technologies/processes/plants in Iceland, Sweden, UAE and Australia, as well as in other countries. Interestingly enough, not one of those technologies or processes in question have as of yet been put to use domestically.

[rad]

any of them dead?

No so the fact you stated is wrong and the fact we stated is right



The rest is just speculation. You have no facts to prove it.


The facts do not support your hysteria

The cases after Chernobyl was because the authorities knowingly let kids drink highly contaminated milk for months. Its not what happened here. The fact you are aware of what milk products and what meet products were found contaminated is evidence that the authorities were a) monitoring and b) being honest about it and c) preventing people being at risk.



fact: everyone knows exactly how much radition we were exposed to (every tom ____ and harry has a meter there was never anyway anyone could hide it

fact: based on years of scientific study we know how the chances of cancer increases with both exposure level and duration.

fact: based on the exposures that the risk in cancers is negligable.

fact: the increase in cancer rates is expected to be so slight as to likely be unmeasureable


If you dont believe that last part go do some research yourself instead of spouting BS here

HINT: Try reading international scientific publications instead getting all your "facts" from greenpeace website.

You have no facts to disprove that the cancer rates will increase.

The mishandling of food for example has led to radioactive levels of different types of food being distributed around Japan, Beef for example to 47 prefectures, thankfully not Okinawa, one example among many. Should never have been transported.

The meters were given out after the highest levels were most likely dissipating, Iodine was not distributed quickly enough, not sure why it was not widely available for people living around nuclear reactors to begin with?

Many reactors are still classed as unsafe in terms of another 'unimaginable' earthquake striking Japan. Good luck with those.

But regardless of the dangers of the nuclear fallout, which are fairly obvious, not a very healthy or slightly unsafe thing to happen at all, something that they would have you believe has not changed much, right, why even roll the dice with a Govt. that has bungled most of the information and emergency responses from day 1?

Why even think that spreading potentially toxic debris around Japan is a safe thing to do also?

Time will tell how immeasurable the damage will be, how few or how many deaths will be attributed to this catastrophic disaster, what we do know is that Japan's Nuclear Program's safety is highly questionable, its contingency plans and positioning of some nuclear plants are poorly planned to say the least, and the savings, if any, achieved from using Nuclear power just went out the window with this shameful episode of mismanagement and naive arrogance.

Apart from the fact of 'Why the f*#$ were people living there anyway?

Fact- People should not have been living in those areas. Fact- a Nuclear power plant should never have been built there. Fact- The safe handling of workers, citizens, livestock and produce from the affected areas has been fatal, dangerous & hazardous.

Fact- TEPCO and the Govt. did not really have a 'back-up' plan for what happened. Fact- the evacuation of citizens was not effective enough and did not remove them sufficiently from harm's way. FACT- the handling of the whole affair is still being poorly handled.

Fact- A lot of things were attempted to be covered up. Fact- unsafe food was distributed around Japan from Tohoku. Fact- unsafe debris will be distributed around Japan. Fact- I would not be living from Tokyo to Aamori, and would've left when the $hit hit the fan.

Fact- it won't be less worse than you think, the chances are it will turn out a lot worse. Fact- Japan will grind to a halt if another incident strikes another nuclear power plant, as they are still under-prepared for the level of earthquakes possible, in reality, not in 'Japanese' reality.

Why would one stay in an area that is potentially dangerous? If you think it's safe, then go for a holiday there this summer, or volunteer to clean up some debris there, I'm sure they need more help!

[rad]

suggest you educate yourself on modern nuclear plant design v what we have in japan.

in modern reactors the cooling system is intrinsically safe.

You can just turn it off and walk away it cant melt down as they are designed to be able to lose heat without help

The problem is not with nuclear power - the problem is we are using very very old badly designed non intrincallay safe nuclear reactors that were designed in the 50s and 60s! Its like a new car and a car from the 60s cant be judged fairly as equal when it comes to surviving a car crash. Modern cars are more intrinsically safe with their crash structures. To ban cars now because granny just got crushed driving a 50 year old car in non nonsensical. What we should do is BAN OLD DESIGNS OF NUCLEAR REACTORS

Have a guess why we cant switch to the safer deisgns? Go on guess? Guess why we are largely stuck with these 50/60 year old designed plants......eco-mentalists like you who stop new plants being built.

Same reason why there was so much spent fuel at fukushima and why it was so much more dangerous - eco-metalists stopped gov building off site storage and treatment facilities. The biggest risk at fukushima was all spent fuel and that was there becuase of the stupid eco-mentalists!


and again - there is currently no alternative. (fossil fuels kill more)

I do agree some Greenies etc. do hinder some better things being done.

The older reactor designs should Never have been allowed to be built in Japan, I suppose that's why there is such mistrust with the industry.

And Nuclear power has been talked about as a 'Hell of a way to boil water'. It may be 'clean' to a degree, but the potential danger is far more catastrophic for us, and can poison the land and us, for more years than is worth the risk.

It is an alternative power source that can be very efficient, but it's not totally safe and the Uranium is never safe once it leaves the ground.

We need other options.

[rad]

suggest you educate yourself on modern nuclear plant design v what we have in japan.

in modern reactors the cooling system is intrinsically safe.

You can just turn it off and walk away it cant melt down as they are designed to be able to lose heat without help

The problem is not with nuclear power - the problem is we are using very very old badly designed non intrincallay safe nuclear reactors that were designed in the 50s and 60s! Its like a new car and a car from the 60s cant be judged fairly as equal when it comes to surviving a car crash. Modern cars are more intrinsically safe with their crash structures. To ban cars now because granny just got crushed driving a 50 year old car in non nonsensical. What we should do is BAN OLD DESIGNS OF NUCLEAR REACTORS

Have a guess why we cant switch to the safer deisgns? Go on guess? Guess why we are largely stuck with these 50/60 year old designed plants......eco-mentalists like you who stop new plants being built.

Same reason why there was so much spent fuel at fukushima and why it was so much more dangerous - eco-metalists stopped gov building off site storage and treatment facilities. The biggest risk at fukushima was all spent fuel and that was there becuase of the stupid eco-mentalists!

and again - there is currently no alternative. (fossil fuels kill more)

I have looked into the French designed Nuclear Power plants, that seem much safer. A shame the Japanese did not upgrade in time. Or at least act on their own safety report on the facility in Fukushima before the tsunami. Hindsight is crystal clear, yes.

[rad]

Well for starters they could seal the actual radioactive waste in containers and store it in the no go zone around the damaged reactors. That area will be unsafe for at least 300 years so they could keep it there.

Metals, plastics and non burnable waste can be recycled. Metals can be resmelted either domestically or sent off to India where they've made it a business to salvage potentially dangerous materials–the little brown fellows will even pay for the materials and the shipping and will still make a profit. The burnable waste can be incinerated in co-generative incinerators of which there must still be a number of them in the prefecture.

As for the energy problem, I've noticed that a lot of innovative energy producing products/projects have been designed and built by Japanese companies and implemented outside the country. MHI has been working with various groups to develop cutting edge alternative energy technologies/processes/plants in Iceland, Sweden, UAE and Australia, as well as in other countries. Interestingly enough, not one of those technologies or processes in question have as of yet been put to use domestically.

Good points.

A shame Japan is not using some of the technology it is developing, does not make a lot of sense.

[edin日本]

Good points.

A shame Japan is not using some of the technology it is developing, does not make a lot of sense.

Ahhh, but it does! MUFJ and MHI happen to be shareholders in TEPCO and other Japanese electric power generation companies. Best not rock the boat and make all that nuclear tech obsolete. Right?

[Super Grover]

I do agree some Greenies etc. do hinder some better things being done.

The older reactor designs should Never have been allowed to be built in Japan, I suppose that's why there is such mistrust with the industry.

And Nuclear power has been talked about as a 'Hell of a way to boil water'. It may be 'clean' to a degree, but the potential danger is far more catastrophic for us, and can poison the land and us, for more years than is worth the risk.

It is an alternative power source that can be very efficient, but it's not totally safe and the Uranium is never safe once it leaves the ground.

We need other options.

The other options (geothermal) has been around for some time. Natural gas has been available.
As always (SG repeats now for about the 10th time), they could have upgraded many plants in Japan well -- Hamaoka, Tokai Mura, Monju, to name but 3, yet they chose to conceal until caught. The problem is still the people in charge of the process. AIJ and Olympus scandals are analogous, I feel.

[rad]

Potential Risk of Accepting Tohoku Debris into Okinawa (Public Version)


List of facts and their implications

Onna village (source #1.1), Naha city (source #1.2), and Okinawa Prefecture (source #1.3) are moving towards accepting debris from tsunami-stricken prefectures, Miyagi and Iwate.
Accepting radioactively-contaminating debris is potentially damaging to Okinawa.
One of the two potential incineration sites is located in Uruma city (the other is in Haebaru)
Right next to AMICUS international school (source #2.1).
2.5km from Camp Courtney, 5km from Kadena base (source #2.2)
Ash generated by burning rubble is likely to be highly-radioactive.
Ash created in the incineration site in Chiba Prefecture, two prefectures away from Fukushima, was highly radioactive and the local government was unable to store it because the level of radiation was 3.5 times higher than the current standard, which is already 80 times higher than the previous standard, 100 Bq/kg, used before 3/11 (source #3).
Trees and leaves in tsunami-stricken areas are contaminated by radioactive substances (source #4).
Some prefectures, such as Tokushima Prefecture, are saying NO to accepting radioactive rubble due to the potential damage to the environment and people (source #5).
Only 20% of the rubble will be processed by prefectures outside of the tsunami-stricken area (source #6).
Radiation specialists (source #7.1, #7.2) and a doctor who works with patients affected by the Chernobyl disaster (source #7.3) say NO to moving debris to non-contaminated locations.
Radioactive contamination is widespread in the Eastern part of Japan, including where the debris will come from (source #8.1, #8.2, #8.3).

Source #1


Source #1.1Decision of Onna village震災がれき 恩納村議会、受け入れ決議　村長に表明求めるRyukyu Shimpo, 2012/03/17http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-188754-storytopic-1.html


Source #1.2Decision of Naha city and an incineration site in Haebaruがれき受け入れの方向　那覇市長、政府に条件� ｮ備要請へRyukyu Shimpo, 2012/03/15http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-188644-storytopic-3.html


Source #1.3Okinawa will accept radioactive debris2012/02/26http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/02/okinawa-will-accept-radioactive-debris/




Source #2


Source #2.1


Potential incineration siteOkinawa Uruma Enobi 1211-6


美島環境クリーンセンター沖縄県うるま市栄野比1211-6 http://g.co/maps/dm88m


Okinawa AMICUS International(http://www.amicus.ed.jp/)


Source #2.2


Source #3


Title: Hidden Concentration of Radioactive Substances in CitiesSource: NHKAirdate: 2011/12/12 (Monday)http://www9.nhk.or.jp/gendai/kiroku/..._3133_all.html


English translation:


Radioactive substances are scattered over a large area of Eastern Japan after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster.


Now, a new problem has been emerging at the incineration site in Tokyo’s metropolitan area.Here, high-levels of radioactivity have been detected in ash because of the concentration of radioactive substances after burning wastes. The amount of highly radioactive and indisposable ash is increasing.


Also, in the metropolitan area, high-levels of radiation have been detected in several canals, which were built to collect rainwater efficiently. Now, the concentration of radioactive substances is an ongoing problem in metropolitan area of Tokyo.


Nine months have passed since the disaster of the nuclear power plant in Fukushima.Tonight, we think about how we should live our live with radiation.


<<< Concentration of radioactive substances in burning process of waste >>>


This is Kashiwazaki-city in Chiba Prefecture, where 400,000 people live in this metropolitan city near Tokyo. Even in daily waste, there are things that cause the concentration of radioactive substances. They are fallen leaves and trees in this area. The amount of radioactive substances is very small. However, in the incineration site, an unimaginable thing was happening.


After the accident at Fukushima nuclear power plant, workers in this incineration site were required to wear radiation-proof suits. The thing waiting for the workers down the corridor is... ash generated by burning wastes. In fact, there are high concentrations of radioactive substances in the ash. The highest measurement so far is 70,800 Bq/kg, which is way higher than 8,000 Bq/kg, the upper limit for landfill enforced by Japanese government.


A surface measurement of radiation of a drum filled with the ash was 4 microSv/hr, which is over the upper limit of evacuation zone. Due to the high levels of radiation, these drums are securely stored at the incineration site. Why do we get such highly radioactive ash?


The cause is concentration of radioactive substances in the process of burning waste. First, the waste is burned at 900 degrees Celsius, reducing the amount of the waste to one tenth of its original size. Then, the ash is melted at 1,200 degrees Celsius, and the amount is further decreased to one hundredth of the original. However, the amount of radioactive substances does not decrease. Therefore, as a result, the high-performance incinerator concentrates the radioactive substances by reducing the volume of waste.


One third of total population of Japan lives in the metropolitan area of Tokyo, where an enormous amount of waste has always been an issue. As a solution for this problem, a high-performance incinerator was invented, but now the high-performance incinerator became the site for concentration of radioactive substances.


Currently, the number of drums filled with highly radioactive ash is eight hundred and eleven. This number is still increasing and will reach the space limit by the end of this year.


In this incineration site, about 1,000 kg of ash is generated every day. If the storage becomes full, the waste could not be burned. If that has happened, the collection of ordinary waste would have been halted. People in the area are concerned about this situation. Today, the city held the meeting for explaining the current situation.


Kashiwa-city has kept asking Japanese government and TEPCO to provide a storage space for the ash; however, no clear answer was made so far. On top of this storage problem, another problem has emerged for local governments. Radioactive ash is carried in to the local government from many regions. The ash originally came from metropolitan incinerators. In the metropolitan area, many local governments do not have their own landfill site; therefore, they rely on other regions. However, this caused a major problem for Akita Prefecture.


"I am really sorry from the bottom of my heart!"


20,800 Bq/kg of radioactive substances, which is 3.5 times higher than the upper limit to be use for landfill, were found in the ash sent from Nagareyama-city, Chiba Prefecture, to Akita Prefecture.


Most of the ash sent from metropolitan areas had been passing the safety standard. Now, people in Akita have less faith in what their government says and insist that they cannot accept any more ash if the radioactive substances are detected even in a small amount.


225,000 kg of radioactive ash, which was not buried in Akita, will be returned back to metropolitan area by the end of this month. The Japanese government instructs local governments on the ash disposal process, and says that even if the radioactive level exceeds 8,000 Bq/kg, they can use ash up to 100,000 Bq/kg for landfill provided they harden it with cement. However, because they need special skills and facilities for using this method, no local-government has used this method so far.


In Kashiwa-city in Chiba Prefecture, the storage capacity will be reached by the end of this year. Now, leaves and trees, which are widely contaminated in east Japan by the radioactive fallout, are separated from other waste to decrease the amount of radioactive substances, and the city piles up these collected leaves and trees without burning them. They are trying to reduce the amount of radioactive ash to avoid the worst scenario of being forced to discontinue garbage collection.Source #4


Newspaper: Asahi ShimbunDate: 2012/02/24“Highly Radioactive Ash of Firewoods used in Daily Life in Ibaragi and Iwate Prefectures. Ash from Minamisouma Showed 240,000 Bq/kg”


Summary: Ash of firewoods, which was sampled from mountains in Fukushima, Miyagi, Iwate, and Ibaragi Prefecture all showed radioactivity beyond the current upper limit, 8,000 Bq/kg, for landfill.


http://www.asahi.com/special/10005/TKY201202240520.html


Source #5


An official response from Tokushima Prefecture about the denial of accepting rubblehttp://www.pref.tokushima.jp/governor/opinion/form/652


A reply from Tokushima Prefecture to comments from a member of the public on a feedback section of the prefectural government’s website


Comment posted: 2012-03-1560 years old, male


<<< Message >>>


I did not translate this part due to its inappropriately emotional tone.


<<< Reply >>>


[Reply from Waste Management Division]


Thanks for your valuable opinions.


We will take this opportunity to state our point of view as a Tokushima Prefecture.

[rad]

Considering an enormous amount of waste was created by the tsunami in Tohoku Earthquake, which was far bigger than anybody expected, we think the amount of rubble generated by this disaster is far beyond the processing capacity of a local government in a damaged area.


Because of this situation, Tokushima Prefecture and several cities, towns and villages in our prefecture have announced our willingness to support Tohoku and follow the direction shown by our government.


However, the government created a new standard of allowing landfill disposal of rubble up to 8000 Bq/kg in all parts of the country, after rubble was found to have radioactivity far beyond the expected radiation level covered by the current law standard.


（By the way, Tokushima Prefecture made policy proposals to Japanese government, which says radioactive rubble should be processed by Japanese government as a government responsibility.）


For radioactive substances, the first principle is containment and prevention of spreading.Before the earthquake, based on international standards of IAEA, when the concentration of radioactive cesium was greater than 100 Bq/kg, it was placed under special administrative controls and securely contained in a low-level radioactive waste disposal site. (Clearance system)


However, now the Japanese government has started using 8,000 Bq/kg (80 times higher than the previous standard), which was previously only used as an emergency measure within Fukushima Prefecture, as the new standard for rubble processing throughout all of Japan.


(Therefore, although all waste from nuclear power plants beyond 100 Bq/kg is strictly controlled as the disposal of low-level radioactive waste, all rubble outside of nuclear power plants with radioactivity going up to 8000 Bq/kg is now used as landfill in the Eastern part of Japan, including Tokyo.)


We want you to think again about this fact: waste with 8000 Bq/kg of radioactive materials is strictly controlled as the disposal of low-level radioactive waste in the international community. It is not treated as ordinary waste that can be incinerated or reduced down for landfill.


For example, in France and Germany, there exists only one dumping ground for low-level radioactive waste in each country and the waste is strictly stored in a place like an unused coal mine and they are strictly monitored to prevent the dissolved radioactive cesium from escaping and contaminating subsurface water.


In addition, there was the press report that, although the disposal field in Isezaki-city, Gunma Prefecture, used ash with 1800 Bq/kg for landfill, which is far lower than the government standard, radioactive cesium dissolved into the underground water after heavy rain, causing radiation levels to spike and exceed the legal standard for effluent.


Since we need to consider the safety and security of our citizens first, as Tokushima Prefecture, it is difficult to accept rubble that might contain radioactive substances, which can have a hazardous impact once they flow out into our living environment.


Of course, this does not mean we will also not accept rubble that is proven not to be contaminated by radioactive substances.


However, we do not have a facility to burn rubble; therefore, we need to talk with citizens who live in the area with a disposal facility.


We have been asking for a clear and sincere explanation from the Japanese government. If all citizens in Tokushima prefecture can agree with the government's explanation, we would like to do whatever we can to support Tohoku recovery.


(* A part of reply is corrected since there was an inappropriate expression in the reply published in 3/13)


Source #6


All prefectures other than tsunami-stricken area process 20% of rubble.Same figure with English legend




Map of Prefectures in Eastern Japan


Source #7Comment from specialists:


Source #7.1


“Carrying rubble to Western Japan is a mistake”by Tomoya Yamauchi, a radiation physicist at Kobe University2012/03/16 Asahi Shimbun, morning edition


3/16の『朝日新聞』朝刊の「耕論：がれき拒む社会―東日 本大震災１年オピニオン」に、載った記事。山内知也・ 神戸大学大学院教授「西日本に運ぶのは間違い」山内教 授は「イオントラック、放射線物理、放射線物性、放射 線計測」の専門家。


English translation of the article by David Caupos:


Radioactive substances have already spread in Eastern Japan. We need to contain them from the Western area, which is fortunately, still clean.


After Tokyo accepted and burned rubble from Iwate and Miyagi Prefectures, we found that the concentration of radioactivity was almost the same. This is due to the fact that daily waste from Tokyo also has contamination from the nuclear disaster. Supposing that prefectures like Chiba, Gunma or Ibaraki accept rubble, the result would probably be the same.


Therefore, in these already contaminated areas, decontamination in their own prefectures, not accepting rubble from other prefectures, should be the main priority.


I have checked radioactivity levels in the air in parks of the Tokyo Metropolitan area. 0.9 micro Sieverts was detected every hour, up to 1 meter above ground level. We need to search the areas where there are radioactive emissions and clean them.


The Osaka prefecture is considering whether to accept rubble or not. Carrying radioactive substances is a mistake. It is of primordial importance for the future of Japan to preserve clean areas and work to protect as many people as possible from radiation exposure.If incinerated, radioactive substances contained in rubble condense and turn into contaminated ashes, regardless of how small their quantity is.


Their diffusion through exhaust fumes is also a source of concern. The Japanese government says incineration facilities are equipped with dioxin filters that remove almost 100% of radioactive substances from exhaust fumes and that therefore we do not need to worry about their emission in the atmosphere. They also declared that the concentration of radioactive substances in fumes is undetected.


However, it is undetected because the time of measurement is too short. Even if as much as 99.9% of the substances could be eliminated, as says the government, it does not mean that their emission has been completely stopped. Even though the concentration is small, the amount of fumes from the incinerator is important, and therefore an equivalent amount of radioactive substances would be discharged.


The level of radiation exposure to surrounding populations might be small at first, but the contamination would spread and accumulate, degrading previously uncontaminated land.


It is true that the slow disposal of rubble from the disaster is one of the obstacles to the reconstruction. In some areas, temporary storage facilities are full and half-destroyed houses in towns are still left untouched. However, there are many municipalities where houses demolition is making progress and the transportation of rubble to temporary storage facilities has been completed. They should be able to start reconstruction at the same time.


The true cause of rubble disposal slowdown is not the lack of progress in large areas. The planned quantity of disposal by large areas is only 4.010.000 tons, 20% of the total quantity of rubble. It is rather due to the time required for the development of structures in the disaster-struck areas.


In order to solve this problem, we should increase the construction of giant incineration facilities equipped with highly efficient filters. This would provide great financial contribution and create employment in these communities. If we build incinerators with electric equipment, timber could be reused as woody biomass to generate power. We must keep disposing rubble in a way that contributes to the reconstruction, while ensuring full security measures.




Source #7.2


Katsuma Yagasaki, Emeritus Professor at the Ryukyu University, warns the problem behind burning radioactive debris in large area in JapanRyukyu Shimpo, 2012/03/18沖縄の利点生かし支援を　矢ヶ崎氏講演、がれき処理 問題点指摘http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-188799-storytopic-1.html


(Not yet translated)


Source #7.3


“Moving radioactive rubble is dangerous” said Yury Bandazhevsky, a doctor and anatomicopathological researcher fo Chelnobyl disasterRyukyu Shimpo, 2012/03/12 「がれき移動は危険」　チェルノブイリ研究者が懸念ht tp://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-188554-storytopic-1.html


(Not yet translated)




Source #8Radioactive contamination is widespread.


Source #8.1


Teppei J Yasunari et al. Cesium-137 deposition and contamination of Japanese soils due to the Fukushima nuclear accident. (2011). PNAS, 108(49), 19530–19534. doi:10.1073/pnas.1112058108http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/11/11/1112058108.full.pdf+html




Source #8.2


A reconstructed map based on official measurements by Yukio Hayakawa (Version 6)http://kipuka.blog70.fc2.com/blog-entry-473.html




Source #8.3


Comparison with Chernobyl disasterhttp://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/k/i/p/kipuka/CHER22.jpg

[rad]

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21032..._medium=social


Ignore the first 2 pop-up ads.

[Deathblob]

100Bq/kg is still less radioactive than an average banana.

Your body (if you aren't some kinda midget) spits out about 5000Bq. Multiply by the number of people in Tokyo, that's 64000 *MEGA* Becquerels! OMG panic!!!!