Leaving Japan indefinitely while keeping PR status

[horrified]

I have permanent residence visa (Eijuken.) Is it possible for me to leave Japan indefinitely while keeping my visa? Can I just hand in my alien card, stop paying taxes and visit every 3 years with a re-entry permit?

[Effected After]

Nope. If you hand in your gaijin card, you lose PR. If you keep your gaijin card, you have to pay taxes.

And I think that starting in July, you need to come back at least once a year, not every three years, though I'm not 100% sure on that.

[KansaiBen]

I have permanent residence visa (Eijuken.) Is it possible for me to leave Japan indefinitely while keeping my visa? Can I just hand in my alien card, stop paying taxes and visit every 3 years with a re-entry permit?

If you have a re-entry permit it means you plan to come back here. Immigration wont accept your ARC if you have a REP stamp in your passport. REP is valid for 3 years. You pay taxes on what is due until you leave eg resident taxes, health insurance etc but not if you are living out of the country and no longer earning income here.

[Effected After]

If you have a re-entry permit it means you plan to come back here. Immigration wont accept your ARC if you have a REP stamp in your passport.

Yes they will. They just cancel both your REP and your visa.

[KansaiBen]

Yes they will. They just cancel both your REP and your visa.

So you basically tell them you are not coming back and they stick a "cancelled" stamp on it? Wasn't sure they could or would do that.

My understanding was if you leave without an REP your visa gets set back to zero automatically when you come back.

What it sounds like is the OP wants to keep his eijuken and all benefits that go with it but not pay taxes here because he chooses not to live here.


If your REP is cancelled why would you need Eijuken?

[Effected After]

So you basically tell them you are not coming back and they stick a "cancelled" stamp on it? Wasn't sure they could or would do that.

Well they can and they do.

My understanding was if you leave without an REP your visa gets set back to zero automatically when you come back.

Yes.

What it sounds like is the OP wants to keep his eijuken and all benefits that go with it but not pay taxes here because he chooses not to live here.

If your REP is cancelled why would you need Eijuken?

What does need have to do with it? If your REP is cancelled, you no longer have PR.

[horrified]

Thanks for the replies, guys. That gives me some clarity.

Yeah - I want the benefit of not having to re-apply for a PR visa when I come back in 10 years or so. But I'll be willing to give up that visa status if keeping it means I have to keep paying municipal/prefectural and federal taxes (not to mention health insurance) while I'm away. That's gonna be expensive.

[KansaiBen]

Thanks for the replies, guys. That gives me some clarity.

Yeah - I want the benefit of not having to re-apply for a PR visa when I come back in 10 years or so. But I'll be willing to give up that visa status if keeping it means I have to keep paying municipal/prefectural and federal taxes (not to mention health insurance) while I'm away. That's gonna be expensive.

Taxes such as resident tax are based on previous years income. If you have no income and no job here you pay no municipal or prefectural taxes. A no-brainer really. You can take holidays from health insurance and pension if you are out of the country. They are not going to chase you for it but they could make you pay back premiums (up to 2 years) if you decide to come back here at some point.

IF your REP expires after 3 years then by extension your PR will be invalidated (unless you get another REP while overseas, or come back and renew it) as it means you don't plan on coming back here.

[Effected After]

The whole REP thing is irrelevant anyways, as the system won't exist anymore in three months.

[horrified]

Taxes such as resident tax are based on previous years income. If you have no income and no job here you pay no municipal or prefectural taxes.

Good to know. But isn't there some kind of base/minimum tax I'd have to pay?

[horrified]

The whole REP thing is irrelevant anyways, as the system won't exist anymore in three months.

I just looked up this:
'The maximum validity period of a re-entry permit issued after implementation of the new system (July 9th, 2012) is to be "5 years," instead of the current "3 years."'

From here: http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact...point_3-4.html

So perhaps I can just visit once every 5 years and still keep my PR status.

[WIJ]

Good to know. But isn't there some kind of base/minimum tax I'd have to pay?

Possibly being naive, but i thought only NZ and USA try to tax people outside of the country.

[Effected After]

So perhaps I can just visit once every 5 years and still keep my PR status.

It's permanent 'residence'. If you are out of the country for five years, it's unlikely that they will consider you a resident, though you *may* be able to slip through the cracks. That said, you'll be liable for pension for that five years, as well as taxes and the like, though taxes and health insurance will be quite low since you won't any income in the country.

[Glenski]

I don't understand this whole mentality. You want to get permanent residence status (it's not a visa, ok? Get that straight.), yet you want to leave for 10 years!?!?!?!?

Come July, you will be able to leave for 1 year without a reentry permit. If you want to stay away longer (5 years, you say?), then you will have to buy a reentry permit and come back before that expires. You will have a 1-year possible extension for that if you screw up and stay longer (or plan to) and if immigration accepts your pleas of mercy.

How is any of that a form of permanent anything, let alone residence? I just don't get it. You want your cake and want to eat it, too. What is the point of having PR when you don't want to even live here?

As for taxes (income and resident taxes and health insurance) while you are away "indefinitely", have a serious talk with your ward office to see how they want to handle things.

[horrified]

Glenski - Going back to get the kids in public school back home for a few years. I own a house here and plan to come back, but I don't think it will be for at least 7 years. It took me a while to get the PR 'status' and it would be nice to not have to go through that again. Just weighing out the options...

[KansaiBen]

Possibly being naive, but i thought only NZ and USA try to tax people outside of the country.

NZ and as far as I'm aware, the US have tax treaties with Japan to ensure you don't get double taxed. If you earn over US$86,000 in Japan you will get taxed any amount over that figure (so I hear) which is a small minority of people. Americans still have to file a tax return on their Japan earnings to the IRS but doesnt actually mean they pay any taxes on it.

I'm a Kiwi, lived here 25 years and have not paid a cent to NZ on my Japan earnings, only on what I earn in NZ (real estate).

[horrified]

It's permanent 'residence'. If you are out of the country for five years, it's unlikely that they will consider you a resident, though you *may* be able to slip through the cracks. That said, you'll be liable for pension for that five years, as well as taxes and the like, though taxes and health insurance will be quite low since you won't any income in the country.

Thanks. Yeah - that looks about right -- we'll probably be paying into the wife's pension monthly (although last time we left she was able to get a break from paying for 5 years.) Considering taxes and whatnot, though, I really need to go and talk to the city hall folks and get the lowdown. I was hoping someone else had tried this.

More than likely this won't work.

But hey, Glenski -- nothing wrong with having your cake and eating it, too, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And what a silly expression that is: who doesn't want to eat the cake they have?

[Since1990]

Possibly being naive, but i thought only NZ and USA try to tax people outside of the country.

I thought it was just the US, don't tell NZ, too?

[Agitator]

The whole REP thing is irrelevant anyways, as the system won't exist anymore in three months.

I believe they'll still exist (and be required) for absences of more than 1 year from Japan.

Concurrently,
A.

[Effected After]

Yeah it sounds that way from this thread.

[horrified]

Talked to both immigration and the local city hall folks. It turns out that once I do the paperwork to declare I'm no longer residing in Japan, they will not charge me for taxes or health insurance while I am away.

They will also not take away my PR status or my ARC at airport immigration provided I have a re-entry permit.

So yes, I can have my cake and eat it, too.

Good news for other PR holders out there. If you are leaving Japan and have any inkling of perhaps moving back some day, just visit once within your re-entry permit period and keep your PR status.

[Effected After]

Good luck! Report back in five years when you come to renew, to let us know how it went.

[horrified]

Sure. But I'll be back for a visit in under 3 years -- leaving in June before the new policy comes into effect.
It's nice to be able to keep the PR status so I can live here again without the hassle of applying for a new visa.

[Glenski]

Glenski - Going back to get the kids in public school back home for a few years. I own a house here and plan to come back, but I don't think it will be for at least 7 years.

You might have said this initially and attracted less fire. Less speculation on our part.

But hey, Glenski -- nothing wrong with having your cake and eating it, too, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

The people you "hurt" would be the ones to benefit from your paying taxes and health insurance, etc. You aren't the first person to ask this type of question, but I don't recall what others have said about the results. I suspected you'll be able to suspend health insurance, but if you own a house, chances are you might still have to pay taxes. Looks like you got what you wanted, though.

As for pension, if you stop paying into it, you will lose the chance to collect earlier.

[possum]

You might have said this initially and attracted less fire. Less speculation on our part.

The people you "hurt" would be the ones to benefit from your paying taxes and health insurance, etc. You aren't the first person to ask this type of question, but I don't recall what others have said about the results. I suspected you'll be able to suspend health insurance, but if you own a house, chances are you might still have to pay taxes. Looks like you got what you wanted, though.

As for pension, if you stop paying into it, you will lose the chance to collect earlier.

I'm really not sure why you insist on being so negative Glenski.

Your argument is really quite ridiculous. If he and his family are living in another country and using that health system and paying health insurance and taxes there, how on earth does that affect anyone in Japan. They won't be using the Japanese system, so why should they have to pay into the system?
When they come back to Japan after how ever many years they will then become resident again in Japan and start using and paying into the Japanese system.


Anyone who has PR has obviously been here a long time and has been paying taxes, health insurance etc all that time - and doing their bit to support the mess that is the Japanese social system.

And - anyone who owns property in their "home" country knows that the property tax obligation doesn't go away just because you are not resident. Why should Japan be any different.
It's a completely separate issue.

I would like to thank the OP for letting us know what the procedure is in this case. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has considered a move and wondered if it is possible to keep PR.

[possum]

Kansaiben - It would seem that you didn't actually read what the OP WROTE:

Talked to both immigration and the local city hall folks. It turns out that once I do the paperwork to declare I'm no longer residing in Japan, they will not charge me for taxes or health insurance while I am away.

They will also not take away my PR status or my ARC at airport immigration provided I have a re-entry permit.

So yes, I can have my cake and eat it, too.

Good news for other PR holders out there. If you are leaving Japan and have any inkling of perhaps moving back some day, just visit once within your re-entry permit period and keep your PR status.

So he went and asked the relevant authorities and found out that yes he could in fact suspend his tax and health insurance payments ( and presumably so can his wife). There is obviously a mechanism that allows people to do this legally.

I'm not sure why you then say that the Japanese system is not designed that way. It seems to be that you are just making things up based on your own opinions without any real facts.

I don't argue with the fact that the US is worse than Japan, but Japan has a lot of problems waiting to happen. It is however irrelevant to this thread.

[Effected After]

I'm not sure why you then say that the Japanese system is not designed that way. It seems to be that you are just making things up based on your own opinions without any real facts.

This is his SOP. He makes guesses based on how he thinks thing should be, and phrase them as fact. Sometimes he's right but usually that's usually just coincidence, not actually based in any knowledge of these facts. It's fairly rare that he actually knows what he's talking about.

[possum]

This is his SOP. He makes guesses based on how he thinks thing should be, and phrase them as fact. Sometimes he's right but usually that's usually just coincidence, not actually based in any knowledge of these facts. It's fairly rare that he actually knows what he's talking about.

Well it is completely irresponsible!

I was reading this thread because I really wanted to know if it was actually possible to keep PR when living outside Japan for a while, and if so what happened with taxes and health insurance.

If posters don't know for sure they should refrain from posting. There is nothing more annoying than someone presenting false information as fact.

It was even more annoying when the OP actually got accurate information from the source ( immigration and city hall ) only to be told that he was wrong. Immigration is wrong? City Hall is wrong?

And if Immigration and City Hall allow something tht should be end of it. No moralising necessary.

[smooth operator]

Talked to both immigration and the local city hall folks. It turns out that once I do the paperwork to declare I'm no longer residing in Japan, they will not charge me for taxes or health insurance while I am away.

They will also not take away my PR status or my ARC at airport immigration provided I have a re-entry permit.

So yes, I can have my cake and eat it, too.

Good news for other PR holders out there. If you are leaving Japan and have any inkling of perhaps moving back some day, just visit once within your re-entry permit period and keep your PR status.

Very informative, thanks for posting.

[me2]

Because the Japanese system is not designed to suspend monthly payments because one chooses to live out of the country. If you do not pay you are technically in default on your payments and it becomes money that you owe before you can claim on your medical expenses.

If he comes back here after seven years he will owe up to two years of back payments before he can use his health insurance.

absolute nonsense.

hypothetical example for you (that means I made it up to match your made-up statements)

Single Japanese guy been working for his Japanese company in Japan earning yen paying taxes, shakai hoken payments to the Japanese government gets told he is being transferring to his company's American office for three years. (chose America since it should be a made-up example you can follow).

Our guy is now earning American dollars, paying American dollar taxes and other random insurance deductions to the American government.

Are you honestly saying that you think our guy should not only be paying his taxes and insurances to the American government, but also have Japanese shakai hoken deductions made on his American-earned salary AS WELL and that money sent to the Japanese government because if he doesn't when he gets transferred back to Japan at some hypothetical (=made up) date in the future he will owe 2 years of back payments before he can use his health insurance again?

This is his SOP. He makes guesses based on how he thinks thing should be, and phrase them as fact. Sometimes he's right but usually that's usually just coincidence, not actually based in any knowledge of these facts. It's fairly rare that he actually knows what he's talking about.

exactly. Its also rare he reads anything before replying. Mind you, there's not really much point to reading before answering since the 'information' in the form of 'fact' has already been predetermined.

[horrified]

I'm glad this is helping others, too.

Another update, talked to city hall again about city/prefectural tax, and they said that I don't need to pay for this year's portion because I'm leaving (Jan - June of this year.) That's more good news. All I need to pay is federal tax for the time I'm here.

[KansaiBen]

government.

Are you honestly saying that you think our guy should not only be paying his taxes and insurances to the American government, but also have Japanese shakai hoken deductions made on his American-earned salary AS WELL and that money sent to the Japanese government because if he doesn't when he gets transferred back to Japan at some hypothetical (=made up) date in the future he will owe 2 years of back payments before he can use his health insurance again?

I was on Shakai Hoken for about 7 years (actually the social health insurance for private universities but the same thing) and then when I went part time was made to cover all the premium payments myself. As I could not afford to pay monthly premiums the insurance office cancelled my health insurance policy. There have been many stories of people coming back here, wanting insurance and having to pay huge amounts of money because they had gaps in their payments.

City tax is only liable on income earned in Japan and up until the time you leave Japan (or up until the last tax period, as mentioned above). You will not pay city tax UNLESS you have outstanding dues. City office will not forgive you just because you are living out of the country. You will have to pay up any money you owe before you leave.

Its also rare he reads anything before replying. Mind you, there's not really much point to reading before answering since the 'information' in the form of 'fact' has already been predetermined.

Actually its based on what happened to me, you are just like a dog with a bone.

[Effected After]

There have been many stories of people coming back here, wanting insurance and having to pay huge amounts of money because they had gaps in their payments.

And so you are speculating that he will have to pay, but are phrasing it as fact, when in fact you have no clue one way or the other.

City office will not forgive you just because you are living out of the country.

Given your history of not knowing what you are talking about, you are going to need to back this up with some facts. I call bs.

[horrified]

Well, I don't know about other people and their experiences, but my wife and I talked to the head dude in the tax section of the city hall. He specifically stated we will not have to pay municipal/prefectural taxes (Shiminzei/Kenminzei) for this year. That means, although we are living here from January to June of this year, we will NOT be charged for that period. We only need to pay for the period ending last December, which we already did.

Also, to re-iterate: last week we had talked to the person in charge of National Health Insurance at the City Hall, and that person stated I do not need to pay for health insurance for the time that I am away from Japan PROVIDED I submit a 'non-residency' form detailing the date of my departure. That form is called　転出届 "TENSHUTSU TODOKE."

If this doesn't happen, then we will take issue with these two department heads and demand some answers.

I didn't have any gaps in health insurance payments, and I have also been paying my taxes like a good little gaijin. I pay my taxes, and I have no say in how they are spent! (although that is another issue entirely.) So there should be no officials at the airport waiting to extract payments due, because there are none. If there WERE payments due, then the city hall people would ask for money when I submit the 'non-residency' form at the office.

I hope that clarifies things.

[me2]

I was on Shakai Hoken for about 7 years (actually the social health insurance for private universities but the same thing) and then when I went part time was made to cover all the premium payments myself. As I could not afford to pay monthly premiums the insurance office cancelled my health insurance policy.

Which is a completely different scenario to what the OP is asking. But thanks for changing the topic to what you want to talk about. Again. Try to concentrate on what other people are actually asking about not your interpretation of it.

Well, I don't know about other people and their experiences, but my wife and I talked to the head dude in the tax section of the city hall. He specifically stated we will not have to pay municipal/prefectural taxes (Shiminzei/Kenminzei) for this year. That means, although we are living here from January to June of this year, we will NOT be charged for that period. We only need to pay for the period ending last December, which we already did.

Also, to re-iterate: last week we had talked to the person in charge of National Health Insurance at the City Hall, and that person stated I do not need to pay for health insurance for the time that I am away from Japan PROVIDED I submit a 'non-residency' form detailing the date of my departure. That form is called　転出届 "TENSHUTSU TODOKE."

Thanks for all the info and for posting it. It will be useful for people in the future wanting to know the same thing. Best of luck to you back home!

[possum]

I was on Shakai Hoken for about 7 years (actually the social health insurance for private universities but the same thing) and then when I went part time was made to cover all the premium payments myself. As I could not afford to pay monthly premiums the insurance office cancelled my health insurance policy. There have been many stories of people coming back here, wanting insurance and having to pay huge amounts of money because they had gaps in their payments.

City tax is only liable on income earned in Japan and up until the time you leave Japan (or up until the last tax period, as mentioned above). You will not pay city tax UNLESS you have outstanding dues. City office will not forgive you just because you are living out of the country. You will have to pay up any money you owe before you leave.

Actually its based on what happened to me, you are just like a dog with a bone.

I think we are talking about very different things here. Obviously you have to be very careful about what happens with your health insurance - as you found out the hard way.

However, the OP has very sensibly gone to the city office and has found out his exact obligation regarding taxes and health insurance - how much he has to pay before he leaves and how to legally suspend payments while living away from Japan.

This is very useful information to have here, and I am grateful to the OP for coming back to share it.

Please don't confuse the issue by talking about things that don't relate to the OPs exact situation.
Please don't muddy the issue by talking about

[horrified]

Thanks for all the info and for posting it. It will be useful for people in the future wanting to know the same thing. Best of luck to you back home!

Thanks, man! We love our lifestyle here in Japan -- but the kids really need to get their education in a more globally-recognized format. Unless they want to pursue the sciences, I don't see those kinds of global opportunities available to degree-holders from Japanese universities.
If we didn't have kids, I would be happy to stay and enjoy this 'bubble' existence non-Japanese can enjoy.

We'll be back.

[horrified]

I left - and I still have my Permanent Resident visa with a re-entry permit good for 3 years. I also still have my Alien Registration card. I'm good to keep the PR status as long as I visit Japan and get the re-entry renewed in the next 3 years. I didn't hit any problems at the airport. In fact, I went to a Japanese consulate abroad and they didn't give me a hard time about anything. Holding a PR visa while living abroad seems to be a non-issue.

Also, as I mentioned above, I don't have to pay taxes, health insurance or the like while I'm away because I did the paperwork for exiting Japan (転出届 "TENSHUTSU TODOKE.")

So I recommend any one else holding a PR visa to consider hanging on to it even if you plan on leaving Japan for an indefinite period. That way if you should decide to return, you will be holding a very convenient visa.

[gokiburo]

Does anyone have any experience or information about non PR work visa?
I've searched the forums with no luck.

Our situation is the same as the OP, but we don't have a PR.

Thank you

[kurogane]

And what a silly expression that is: who doesn't want to eat the cake they have?

This is the best post of the day. Glenski's usual soporific curmudgeonry aside, what is the bloody point of cake except to eat it.

I have always hated the self-contradiction inherent in that old finger wagger.


I suppose you're going to want to drive that fancy new auto you just bought???

If we buy you a puppy, you're going to want to play with it!!!!!!!!!!





BTW, it seems that 'have' is simply archaic for 'keep'.

And now you know..................

Great avatar, btw.