Anit-marijuana prohibition causes death of man in Yokohama

[Effected After]

The Japanese media is reporting that a man has died after smoking Spice:

横浜市内のマンションで２０日、パイプを使って植物の 粉末を吸っていた２６歳の男性が死亡し、警察は詳しい 死因を調べるとともに、いわゆる「脱法ハーブ」とみて鑑定することにしています。

link

Rough translation: After smoking a powdered plant substance in an apartment in Yokohama, a 25 year old man has died. The police are currently investigating the exact cause, but are saying that it appears to be from so-called 'legal herbs'.

If the government had not outlawed an entirely safe legal plant, you wouldn't have people smoking these completely unknown, and often extremely dangerous, legal herbs. This man's blood is on the government's hands.

[Effected After]

I just realized this thread title is incorrect. It should have been 'Marijuana prohibition'.

[hml]

The Japanese media is reporting that a man has died after smoking Spice:



Rough translation: After smoking a powdered plant substance in an apartment in Yokohama, a 25 year old man has died. The police are currently investigating the exact cause, but are saying that it appears to be from so-called 'legal herbs'.

If the government had not outlawed an entirely safe legal plant, you wouldn't have people smoking these completely unknown, and often extremely dangerous, legal herbs. This man's blood is on the government's hands.

To be clear - if he had not been smoking the legal herbs, he would not have died from having done so.

[Effected After]

I don't disagree with that at all. Personal responsibility is number one. But history has shown us that people are going to do drugs regardless of prohibition, and in this case, prohibition created an environment where this guy felt he was safer off smoking these unknown substances, rather than smoking one that is known to be safe. And look where it got him.

[Bolduc]

I don't disagree with that at all. Personal responsibility is number one. But history has shown us that people are going to do drugs regardless of prohibition, and in this case, prohibition created an environment where this guy felt he was safer off smoking these unknown substances, rather than smoking one that is known to be safe. And look where it got him.

The problem is that substance is LEGAL !!! but the safe stuff is ILLEGAL !!!!!

It should be the opposite.

[Bolduc]

Have you ever smoked those legal herbs ??
If yes how was it???

[Effected After]

I have. It's kind of weed-like, but more tweaky. I don't like it, and haven't touched it in months.

I'm surprised the foreign media didn't pick up on this.

[Bolduc]

i tried couple of times. It was the same as weed but one time my heart beats so fast that it scared me like hell.
Is it normal??

[Effected After]

It depends if you mean 'normal' as in what your heart normally does, or normal as in what your heart does after smoking that stuff.

For the first, I'd say no, that's not normal. For the second, I'd say yeah, that's probably normal.

[YokohamaTommy]

If the government had not outlawed an entirely safe legal plant, you wouldn't have people smoking these completely unknown, and often extremely dangerous, legal herbs. This man's blood is on the government's hands.

Does not compute.
The fact that the substance is illegal has zero to do with this man's death.

MJ is illegal in Japan.
MJ is not addictive.
Man smokes unknown substance in an attempt to emulate MJ.
A simple internet search would have indicated that "spice" is unregulated, and what you get, is the gods best bet;
Could be carpet freshener, could be dried bologna, could be Chinese pocket lint flavored with toothpaste.
If you cannot control yourself to get high, you probably require therapy, not drugs.
If this applies, logic also would suggest that you probably should not live in a country where said substance is illegal.

The man deserves a Darwin award, and a bit of sympathy.
The Government is in no way responsible for his demise.

[Effected After]

So you think people would still smoke this if weed were legal?

[YokohamaTommy]

So you think people would still smoke this if weed were legal?

We're not talking necessity here.
If the guy wants to smoke a fatty, I got no issues with it.
The issue is that it is made to seem as if he absolutely HAD to get high,
and was left with no choice other than smoking mystery plants, or bits of cardboard dipped in roach spray for all one knows?

I fail to correlate the desire for THC in overriding a decision to take a gamble with my life.

-And I think that's the real problem here.
In which people having faith just because something comes in a legit-looking package, that said substance won't totally kill you.

The people that have culpability are the ones who put any sort of veracity into this crap.
I mean, let's be honest here;
There are people in this world who scrape whatever they find in their backyard, put it in a bag and sell it on the internet as something to get you high.
Oh? they have a brick and mortar store?
Who cares? Where are the from? Mongolia?
Who knows?

I think I've made my point.

[Effected After]

We're not talking necessity here.

Neither was I. Again, you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

[YokohamaTommy]

Neither was I. Again, you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

Thoughtless people exist before, during, and after any condition of prohibition; and as well there exists people to profit from all three of these conditions.

[Effected After]

Again, do you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

[YokohamaTommy]

Again, do you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

Your logic is flawed, and the question is moot.

Your logic is this:
I enjoy Skateboarding.
Skateboarding in the streets is illegal in Tokyo.
There are no skate parks near me.
Therefore, it is the Government's fault if I choose to skate in traffic and subsequently get into an accident.

It's ludicrous.

Would people smoke lawn-clippings if weed were legal?
Would Seagulls drink martinis if crack were in cornflakes?
Who knows?
We have no quantifiable data either way, and even if we did, it still would not be germane to the issue.

[Effected After]

Again, do you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

[oxymoron]

Again, do you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

It would depend on the price.

[Piethrower]

Again, do you think people would still smoke this stuff if weed were legal?

'No, if weed were legal nobody would smoke that stuff.' Is that the only answer you're programmed to accept? You stupid robot. I'm sorry but many people would still smoke Spice if it were cheaper and/or modified to give a unique buzz, which would certainly be the case if mary jane became legal. Moreover, drug use in this country would soar, high school students and bored housewives would start experimenting with both pot AND cheaper chemical alternatives, the result being more society drop-outs and more deaths. Who you gonna blame then?

You selfish Sons of Bs make me wanna puke last night's whiskey. You don't care if thousands die just so long as you can indulge your love of the herb without fear of incarceration. 'Cuz like pot is simply the most natural and harmless thing in the world, and the medicinal benefits are indisputable and you know like at the end of the day, when you have the munchies, it should be a matter of personal choice. Have a potato chip, peace.'

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND CHOKE ON IT! Then turn yourself in, pothead.

[Effected After]

'No, if weed were legal nobody would smoke that stuff.' Is that the only answer you're programmed to accept?

I was looking for a yes or no answer.

I'm sorry but many people would still smoke Spice if it were cheaper and/or modified to give a unique buzz, which would certainly be the case if mary jane became legal.

Yeah, I'm sure you think that, but you aren't exactly the swiftest gazelle in the herd. I think we all know very well that almost no one is going to smoke an unknown illegal weed alternative, which has caused seizures and even death, over the actual weed itself if it were legal.

Of course, you've got such a bug up your ass about me, you'd disagree with me if I said that people needed water to live. And you'd even try to throw in some insult that you think would bother me.

I feel for you that my being positive has created a mission for your negativity.

[Piethrower]

I was looking for a yes or no answer.

Well then 'yes.' Previous two posters concur.

Yeah, I'm sure you think that, but you aren't exactly the swiftest gazelle in the herd. I think we all know very well that almost no one is going to smoke an unknown illegal weed alternative, which has caused seizures and even death, over the actual weed itself if it were legal.

You're on crack (and who is 'we?' - just about everyone on this thread disagrees with you). Cheaper product sells, that's the socio-economic reality which low-income dope fiends live in. And pimply teenagers would do it for both the low price and the fugu-like thrill. They probably won't die. You didn't. And what if it's a really beautiful buzz? Oh there'll be plenty of takers and more fatalities than now if you open up the drug gates.

Of course, you've got such a bug up your ass about me, you'd disagree with me if I said that people needed water to live. And you'd even try to throw in some insult that you think would bother me.

You've more or less already said 'people need water to live' about 3000 times. I don't like prolific posters unless they stimulate me. Give me a natural high or STFU.

I feel for you that my being positive has created a mission for your negativity.

Thanks for the feel but there's really not much 'positive' to a guy who would celebrate increased drug use among Japanese youth.

[Deathblob]

Piethrower, you think no-one does drugs in Japan now? "Open up the gates," ha ha. Smokin' the reefer is a lot safer than popping amphetamines all day. Just let JT sell it, and the black market will not be able to compete. It's not going to happen any time soon though.

[Effected After]

Well then 'yes.' Previous two posters concur.

Well here I always thought you were just negative. Now you are showing you have no common sense either.

and who is 'we?'

Why, anyone with an ounce of common sense of course. I had assumed you were part of that 'we', but you've shown you aren't.

Cheaper product sells, that's the socio-economic reality which low-income dope fiends live in.

Which has what relevance? No one knows what the price of weed would be if it was legal. A lot cheaper than it is now, that's for sure. And that spice isn't particularly cheap.

I don't like prolific posters unless they stimulate me. Give me a natural high or STFU.

Wah Wah. Poor little baby isn't stimulated? What do I care - you are one of the biggest morons on this site. I'd have to be ashamed of myself if I DID 'stimulate' you. Thank god I don't.

Thanks for the feel but there's really not much 'positive' to a guy who would celebrate increased drug use among Japanese youth.

Says the guy who would prefer they smoke unknown potentially life-threatening substances. Yeah, a real moral-high ground you've got there.

[Piethrower]

Piethrower, you think no-one does drugs in Japan now? "Open up the gates," ha ha. Smokin' the reefer is a lot safer than popping amphetamines all day. Just let JT sell it, and the black market will not be able to compete. It's not going to happen any time soon though.

I'm savvy, Blob. I know and have known plenty of pot smokers in Japan. I don't like the herb myself but have partaken on occasion. If you're careful it's not that hard to get high on your drug of choice - only a pu$$y or someone strapped for cash should have to resort to spice.

But legalizing it, legitimizing it, would get a lot of people into the drug scene who otherwise would be content to drink Zima. The people peddling spice won't just pack up shop if pot is legalized- they'd find a way to produce it cheaper or give it a bigger kick. Once your high school student or construction worker or anyone for that matter gets a taste for pot they'll be looking to score every friday. But what if their allowance is running short or they just got laid off? The cheaper product will sell. But these lifetime potheads don't give a f*ck.

[Piethrower]

Which has what relevance? No one knows what the price of weed would be if it was legal. A lot cheaper than it is now, that's for sure. And that spice isn't particularly cheap.

Pretty weak response but I'll expand a little on my post above. You were driven to spice because you lacked the balls to break the laws. In the same way, people struggling to get by - and there's more than a few such people you know, and many of them are potential drug users - might prefer a dime bag of spice to a nickel bag of pot despite the risks. It will depend on the price. Are you so sure the government will undercut the underworld? I'm not...This can't be that hard for you to comprehend, can it? People may start off on pot but end up using spice just to get (a cheap) high.

People are willing to risk their lives just for a buzz all the time - you know that, you said as much in an earlier post - why would you wanna introduce drugs to more people? I maintain that you're just a selfish piece of crap. You got a little boy and you're like the world's greatest Papa, yeah? At least when you compare yourself to Kansaiben. You should be able to get plenty high off of your son. Forget about your silly drugs.

Says the guy who would prefer they smoke unknown potentially life-threatening substances. Yeah, a real moral-high ground you've got there.

That kind of slander might even be actionable. I never said I prefer people to smoke potentially life-threatening substances. What I'm saying is that if you legalize marijuana, more people, ironically perhaps, will end up abusing such substances. Get it right f*ckhead or expect to be shat on some more.

[Effected After]

Pretty weak response but I'll expand a little on my post above. You were driven to spice because you lacked the balls to break the laws.

Damn rights! It would be extremely irresponsible of me to get thrown in jail. I'd lose my business, and potentially my family as well. I wouldn't be able to support my wife and kid, and it would most likely wipe out my savings.

So yep, I definitely don't have the balls to smoke weed on the risk that I'd lose everything. If you do, you're a moron. Oh wait...

It will depend on the price.

Exactly, which is why it's irrelevant. We have no idea which way the prices will go, which makes all your other gibberish irrelevant.

Are you so sure the government will undercut the underworld?

Yes, I am.

People are willing to risk their lives just for a buzz all the time - you know that, you said as much in an earlier post - why would you wanna introduce drugs to more people?

Because the converse is the status quo - where people are smoking unknown chemicals on some random plant products, when they could be smoking a mostly harmless plant that actually has medicinal properties.

I maintain that you're just a selfish piece of crap.

And I maintain that something happened to you in childhood that broke you and turned you into this negative person.

You got a little boy and you're like the world's greatest Papa, yeah?

He's everything to me.

You should be able to get plenty high off of your son.

You come back to me and make that comment after you have stopped drinking alcohol. Until then, you are just talking out your ass.

That kind of slander might even be actionable. I never said I prefer people to smoke potentially life-threatening substances.

You're the one who wants to maintain the status quo. If you don't like the results of that decision, then maybe you should reconsider it.

What I'm saying is that if you legalize marijuana, more people, ironically perhaps, will end up abusing such substances. Get it right f*ckhead or expect to be shat on some more.

Oh, are we trading insult? Ok, then you're a c*ntface.

Ok, now that we've got that out of the way, if you want to keep making comments that show your lack of intelligence, go ahead. But no shat please, I'm not into scat. If you have enough money you can probably find a dude who will let you do it to him though.

[Piethrower]

Damn rights! It would be extremely irresponsible of me to get thrown in jail. I'd lose my business, and potentially my family as well. I wouldn't be able to support my wife and kid, and it would most likely wipe out my savings.

So yep, I definitely don't have the balls to smoke weed on the risk that I'd lose everything. If you do, you're a moron. Oh wait...


Exactly, which is why it's irrelevant. We have no idea which way the prices will go, which makes all your other gibberish irrelevant.


Yes, I am.


Because the converse is the status quo - where people are smoking unknown chemicals on some random plant products, when they could be smoking a mostly harmless plant that actually has medicinal properties.


And I maintain that something happened to you in childhood that broke you and turned you into this negative person.


He's everything to me.


You come back to me and make that comment after you have stopped drinking alcohol. Until then, you are just talking out your ass.


You're the one who wants to maintain the status quo. If you don't like the results of that decision, then maybe you should reconsider it.


Oh, are we trading insult? Ok, then you're a c*ntface.

Ok, now that we've got that out of the way, if you want to keep making comments that show your lack of intelligence, go ahead. But no shat please, I'm not into scat. If you have enough money you can probably find a dude who will let you do it to him though.

I could grow some killer weed in that regurgitated dogsh*t you're trying to pass off as an argument. But that's always been your best and only line of defense - glibly repeating yourself ad nauseam.

You say that we have no idea which way the prices would go. Perhaps, but I gave you reasons why I think spice would remain a viable alternative - buzz for the buck and a poor economy among them. Here's another - high school kids, though not of legal age, would inevitably experiment with pot even if they couldn't purchase it at the druggie store. They'll find ways to fly, we all know that, but spice will be far more accessible to them. And when they can't get or afford pot, they'll opt for spice, they'll have to to remain cool. Most won't die though, and you'll be smoking the good sh*t carefree so it's all golden, aye?

And you countered my position with...nothing. You didn't provide one reason as to why you think the price of weed would be lower than spice. Oh wait you did express confidence that the Japanese government would handle their drug money to the benefit of all. That's just 'common sense.' Hmmm, I have to say I find this newfound trust you have in the Japanese government somewhat disturbing...but maybe I'm just paranoid.

It's quite clear to me that you haven't examined, nor do you wish to examine, the full-range of consequences that the legalization of pot would bring. Your mission has always been to 'change the status quo' and to hell with the consequences because - and here I have some sympathy for you - for the last 30+ years you weren't even aware that there could be any negative consequences. In 30 years you never bothered to think it through and now you're as impervious to reason as a religious fanatic. 'Legalize marijuana and the world becomes hunky dory, no more pushers, no more wars, quality control - BLISS.' You take this on faith and summarily reject any critical examination of this 'faith.' I'd almost say you've been brainwashed but that would strip you of accountability. Nope, you'll never admit it but you're just a selfish human being - very common type - who would be happy to get high to the (unseen) detriment of others. Fortunately that will never happen, at least not in Japan.

Well, you can do some more regurgitating if you want but I'm done with thread. Time for a good snort of coke.

[Effected After]

I could grow some killer weed in that regurgitated dogsh*t you're trying to pass off as an argument. But that's always been your best and only line of defense - glibly repeating yourself ad nauseam.

What can I say - when you're right, it's all you need to do.

They'll find ways to fly, we all know that, but spice will be far more accessible to them.

If that were true, we'd already have an epidemic of high school kids smoking spice. And/or we'd have an epidemic of alcoholic high schoolers.

I'd rather them smoke weed as minors, than smoke spice as minors. Of course, it would be better if they weren't smoking either at all, but if history has shown us anything, it's that people are going to do so regardless of the legal status.

And when they can't get or afford pot, they'll opt for spice, they'll have to to remain cool. Most won't die though, and you'll be smoking the good sh*t carefree so it's all golden, aye?

The only difference I can see between what you are describing, and the current situation, is that I would be smoking weed.

And you countered my position with...nothing.

Because it's an entirely moot point. It's your speculation vs. mine.

It's quite clear to me that you haven't examined, nor do you wish to examine, the full-range of consequences that the legalization of pot would bring.

You keep looking at it as 'the consequences of legalization'. The consequences I see are an end to prisoners who have done nothing worse than smoking a mostly harmless plant. The removal of the black market that has built up behind supplying this plant to those people. A new form of tax revenue (and one that Japan could really use right about now). And the removal of the hypocrisy that goes behind allowing alcohol and tobacco, two significantly more dangerous drugs, while denying weed.

You are the one who is brainwashed mate. Sucked in by the status quo, not intelligent enough to see beyond it. Maybe you roasted too many brain cells doing too much coke. Or maybe you are blinded because you've been doing scat play with boys. Or maybe, just maybe, you are disagreeing because you don't like the messenger. Just remember, humans need water to live.

[pastor Ralph]

Very sad indeed. The people who call themselves government will let us smoke any garbage we can get, drink as much 100 yen sake as we want, have us work as many hours as our companies like, but won't let us enjoy the herbs God planted.
I just wrote a post on this plant on my website: http://www.apastoronascooterinjapan....weed-in-japan/

[ruserious]

Very sad indeed. The people who call themselves government will let us smoke any garbage we can get, drink as much 100 yen sake as we want, have us work as many hours as our companies like, but won't let us enjoy the herbs God planted.
I just wrote a post on this plant on my website: http://www.apastoronascooterinjapan....weed-in-japan/

They won't let you enjoy cocaine or heroin, either. And those are also from "plants God planted."

I hope you're not really a pastor, because you're making Christians look bad.

[Effected After]

I sure hope you aren't an alcohol drinker ruserious, or you are an amazing hypocrite.

[pastor Ralph]

They won't let you enjoy cocaine or heroin, either. And those are also from "plants God planted."

I hope you're not really a pastor, because you're making Christians look bad.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I'd rather have the occasional joint than spending a quarter of my life watching mind-altering, addictive tv (which would be legal).
I'd rather have my lungs exposed to some smoke now and then than eating crap loaded with preservatives and hormones every day (which would be legal)
It just bothers me (and a lot of people with me) that other people (the authorities) say that we are not capable of judging ourselves what is good and bad for us (concerning stuff that does absolutely no harm to others around us).
It's not like we want to order people to smoke. We're simply pro-choice.
Instead of prohibiting the stuff, governments could just inform people of the risks (like they do in the cases of alcohol, saturated fats, etc.)
If people only left it to others to decide for themselves how to live their lives (in a peaceful way of course)...

[Genkii]

Oh.. I thought it was about YokohamaTommy..

[YokohamaTommy]

Oh.. I thought it was about YokohamaTommy..

Wow...you sure got me.
What a zinger that was. Ouch.
My cheeks are flushed with embarrassment;
-and now I'm literally holding my sides and rolling on the floor from laughter.

whoo.

[ruserious]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I'd rather have the occasional joint than spending a quarter of my life watching mind-altering, addictive tv (which would be legal).
I'd rather have my lungs exposed to some smoke now and then than eating crap loaded with preservatives and hormones every day (which would be legal)
It just bothers me (and a lot of people with me) that other people (the authorities) say that we are not capable of judging ourselves what is good and bad for us (concerning stuff that does absolutely no harm to others around us).
It's not like we want to order people to smoke. We're simply pro-choice.
Instead of prohibiting the stuff, governments could just inform people of the risks (like they do in the cases of alcohol, saturated fats, etc.)
If people only left it to others to decide for themselves how to live their lives (in a peaceful way of course)...

Addiction is harmful to you and to the society you live in. People form societies, and societies create laws to govern behavior.

If you don't like those laws, you can either move to a different society, or go find a deserted island and create your own.

The argument that some stuff is legal and arguably worse for you is not a valid justification for breaking the law.

[YokohamaTommy]

If you don't like those laws, you can either move to a different society, or go find a deserted island and create your own.

Actually it's pretty difficult if not impossible to do either these days.
Someone always will be claiming dominion over you and demanding crap.

a teeny island on Micronesia perhaps?

[Effected After]

Addiction is harmful to you and to the society you live in.

And yet society seems to function ok with alcohol. You want to know what's much worse for society than addiction? Organized crime. And the prohibition of drugs has led to an environment in which organized crime thrives. Opinions like yours are actually significantly worse for society than the additions which they seek to condemn.

If you don't like those laws, you can either move to a different society, or go find a deserted island and create your own.

So I'm curious, when are you intending to move to a deserted island and create your own laws? You spend an awful lot of time whining about the laws in your country, by your own advice, you should already be on that island.

The argument that some stuff is legal and arguably worse for you is not a valid justification for breaking the law.

How is smoking a legal drug breaking the law?

[glumsmuck]

Addiction is harmful to you and to the society you live in.

Yeah, but they are f-cking fun.





Christ, this thread is funny.
Up is down and down is up.
All the pieces on the board have been thrown up in the air and have settled in strange and unaccustomed positions.

[pastor Ralph]

The argument that some stuff is legal and arguably worse for you is not a valid justification for breaking the law.

I've not used it as an argument for breaking the law, just to point out that the law is wrong and should be removed.

Addiction is harmful to you and to the society you live in.

Good point and another reason to legalize weed. I haven't smoked since I came here last September and don't feel any withdrawal symptoms. It's been scientifically proven to be less addictive than coffee.

People form societies, and societies create laws to govern behavior.

The anti cannabis law was created by the American occupational administration.

If you don't like those laws, you can either move to a different society, or go find a deserted island and create your own.

True, I can move, but I won't. For the Japanese guy who died it might have been a little more difficult. Perhaps he only spoke Japanese, had all his friends and family here and didn't have enough savings.
The argument that one should leave the country if one doesn't like the laws is a very dangerous one. Just imagine using that argument for other cases throughout history where people didn't agree with the law of that time and place. (laws oppressing religions, women, ethnicities, sexual preference, freedom of speech, etc) Having an unjust law removed seems to be a more constructive solution.

[Effected After]

The argument that one should leave the country if one doesn't like the laws is a very dangerous one. Just imagine using that argument for other cases throughout history where people didn't agree with the law of that time and place. (laws oppressing religions, women, ethnicities, sexual preference, freedom of speech, etc) Having an unjust law removed seems to be a more constructive solution.

You make a good point, particularly when you consider that ruserious lives in a country that chooses to impose its own law in other countries. How can you move when his country will attempt to persecute (yes, that's the word I meant to use) people in other countries.