sapporo vs tokyo - should i stay or move?

[murfman713]

hey so im from new york city and iv been living in japan for a few months but my job is sadly stationed in saitama, about a half hour outside tokyo. jobs pretty good and i have a company apt for a year but sadly after that im going to have to get my own place which is pretty difficult to do in tokyo on my salary(220,000 a month 9am-5pm mon-fri). i know some people make much less and get by just fine and i would be fine also if saitama had a bit more going on. one of my coworkers recommended i consider moving to sapporo and give english teaching a shot when my apt expires because apparently native English speakers are harder to come by. iv always wanted to live in a city where i have easy access to snowboarding but i really don't know much about sapporo other than miso ramen and apparently beautiful snow and mountains. iv herd to city is much smaller than tokyo but apparently is still very fun. does any one have any experience working and teaching in sapporo and tokyo? how do they compare? i really enjoy night life and need to be able to meet many people. is the city kind of desolate? basically asking hows life there and how is the job field for a native english speaker with a spousal visa and a year of experience in a japanese company under his belt?

[murfman713]

really excited to hear some info on this.

[trip_hop]

really excited to hear some info on this.

Give people time, it's not an instant reply service here.
You posted this around midnight, and can't wait a few hours for a reply?

[murfman713]

herd today that the winters are great because of snowboarding but in terms of nightlife and partying the city is pretty desolate. if anyone disagrees, let me know.

[Since1990]

herd today that the winters are great because of snowboarding but in terms of nightlife and partying the city is pretty desolate. if anyone disagrees, let me know.

Personally, I'd just try and find a higher paying job in Tokyo rather than head up to Sapporo. Too cold if you ask me. If you have more money to spare, then you can travel up there every so often.

[YokohamaTommy]

Do you like it cold most of the year?
Do you like your winters deadly cold? (Though you did say you are from NY so not totally a surprise.)
My understanding is that it is cold as hell most of the time.

[kurogane]

i would consider a trip to sapporo to decide if you like the place at all before taking the rather drastic act of moving all the way there without having visited it first but i did exactly that and i enjoyed it for the most part although it can get isolating when you first arrive and there arent very many foreigners around and a lot of the ones that are are a bit dicklish at times and not many people up there speak english which can be frustrating unless you speak some japanese but like you mentioned the skiing is really good up there and even though snowboarding is for dorks you could probably do that too and the summers aren't stinking freakin hot like the rest of the country and there are lots of outdoor opportunities like hiking and hunting for ainus and the girls are built way better up there and there is an all you can drink special at a bar called september sail where they have hot bartenders but they don't do the hoochie coochie with the customers and there seem to be more and better bars up there now though some might have closed since the economy went to poo poo but at least they were better than when i lived there in 1987 and did i mention that there's a girl that works in a lingerie shop near the station whose mother i used to do the ole ramalabinbang with and she looks exactly like her mother did when she was 22 and she's smokin hot

so yeah................leplasent saporoh

[murfman713]

i would consider a trip to sapporo to decide if you like the place at all before taking the rather drastic act of moving all the way there without having visited it first but i did exactly that and i enjoyed it for the most part although it can get isolating when you first arrive and there arent very many foreigners around and a lot of the ones that are are a bit dicklish at times and not many people up there speak english which can be frustrating unless you speak some japanese but like you mentioned the skiing is really good up there and even though snowboarding is for dorks you could probably do that too and the summers aren't stinking freakin hot like the rest of the country and there are lots of outdoor opportunities like hiking and hunting for ainus and the girls are built way better up there and there is an all you can drink special at a bar called september sail where they have hot bartenders but they don't do the hoochie coochie with the customers and there seem to be more and better bars up there now though some might have closed since the economy went to poo poo but at least they were better than when i lived there in 1987 and did i mention that there's a girl that works in a lingerie shop near the station whose mother i used to do the ole ramalabinbang with and she looks exactly like her mother did when she was 22 and she's smokin hot

so yeah................leplasent saporoh

that all sounds fantastic! i LOVE cold winter and LOVE the snow. i honestly HATEEEE the heat more than anything. the hotest weather i can enjoy is about 60F and thats gotta be in a park like yoyogi for a picnic.

the only worry i have about sapporo is not being able to meet new people as frequently as i can in tokyo. i herd the night life is much slower and bars arent as lively or abundant. id love to find out its a fun party city, that would really just sell it for me. im also a little worried about money. does it pay better than tokyo for gaijin? hows the rent?

[murfman713]

Personally, I'd just try and find a higher paying job in Tokyo rather than head up to Sapporo. Too cold if you ask me. If you have more money to spare, then you can travel up there every so often.

hopw high of a paying job do you think i could find in tokyo? id like to find one in the next 9 months. im tired of living in saitama already. if im goign to stay in tokyo i need to get a place in ikkebukuro for 75,000 a month or so and still have about 150,000 spending money a month. think thats possible after taxs and bills?

[Since1990]

hopw high of a paying job do you think i could find in tokyo? id like to find one in the next 9 months. im tired of living in saitama already. if im goign to stay in tokyo i need to get a place in ikkebukuro for 75,000 a month or so and still have about 150,000 spending money a month. think thats possible after taxs and bills?

If you're limiting yourself to English teaching, I'm not really sure. I assume the 220,000 you mentioned was after tax, etc.? Apparently it is not that easy to attain a higher income than that nowadays.

[murfman713]

If you're limiting yourself to English teaching, I'm not really sure. I assume the 220,000 you mentioned was after tax, etc.? Apparently it is not that easy to attain a higher income than that nowadays.

actually the 220k is pre taxed. after taxs i have about 185k and after my company apt rent i have 170k. its pretty shitty for working 9-5 and 5 days a week in saitama. im not limiting myself to english teaching. jsut trying to make more money some how. any pointers?

[murfman713]

actually the 220k is pre taxed. after taxs i have about 185k and after my company apt rent i have 170k

sounds like a rip off? that company apt only lasts for 8 more months by the way.

[Since1990]

sounds like a rip off? that company apt only lasts for 8 more months by the way.

Well they're not charging you much for rent.

You're single, right? It's enough to live on. I suppose you could earn more in Tokyo (it's changed a lot from when I used to teach English).

Anyway, your income is worth a lot if it's hard-earned. Better that way than ripping people off and earning large sums of money.

The problem with people is that enough is never enough.

[Since1990]

im not limiting myself to english teaching. jsut trying to make more money some how. any pointers?

Depends on what skills you have. How is your Japanese ability? What other skills do you have other than English (or Japanese) language skills? Or, what are you interested in, careerwise?

Proofreading translations that have been translated by Japanese translators is one area which I think is still available nowadays. Headhunting is another area which does not necessarily require Japanese language skills...

[Shakes Spear]

that all sounds fantastic! i LOVE cold winter and LOVE the snow. i honestly HATEEEE the heat more than anything. the hotest weather i can enjoy is about 60F and thats gotta be in a park like yoyogi for a picnic.

the only worry i have about sapporo is not being able to meet new people as frequently as i can in tokyo. i herd the night life is much slower and bars arent as lively or abundant. id love to find out its a fun party city, that would really just sell it for me. im also a little worried about money. does it pay better than tokyo for gaijin? hows the rent?

WTF?! Just a couple of days ago you were pining for help with your current job and now you've already got one foot out the door?

Judging from your command of the language you're getting paid to teach now, you ought to stay put and thank whatever god you hold holy that someone was foolish enough to hire you in the first place.

[murfman713]

WTF?! Just a couple of days ago you were pining for help with your current job and now you've already got one foot out the door?

Judging from your command of the language you're getting paid to teach now, you ought to stay put and thank whatever god you hold holy that someone was foolish enough to hire you in the first place.

yeah i still work here.... im talking about 9 months down the road when i my company apartment time expires and i don't have enough money to afford my own place on a small salary. wouldn't say i have one foot out the door, im just being smart and getting ready for the next step in my life over here. 220,000yen pre taxed isn't exactly enough to enjoy your life and pay for an apartment. just because im trying to figure out what i should do next doesn't mean im not going to continue working hard at my current job. I don't think you should just assume things like that and get hostel on people that quickly.

stop being a ____, really no need for that. just don't post next time you feel unhappy about your life.

[murfman713]

Well they're not charging you much for rent.

You're single, right? It's enough to live on. I suppose you could earn more in Tokyo (it's changed a lot from when I used to teach English).

Anyway, your income is worth a lot if it's hard-earned. Better that way than ripping people off and earning large sums of money.

The problem with people is that enough is never enough.

yeah its currently enough money because of my low rent. The problem is my company only allows us to live there for a year which will end up leaving me in a pretty bad situation. im not looking to make a ton of money, just enough for an apartment and about 170,000 for spending a month. Im trying to figure out how i should go about finding a job that pays that much. I am currently doing R&D for event planning and enjoy it but its just not enough money to live in my own place.

you mentioned headhunting, im going to start looking into that. hopefully English teaching in tokyo can pay between 250,000 and 300,000. i would definitely be able to make ends meet on 300k.

oh and to answer your questions.
1) i have only been here for a few months and don't speak Japanese well yet.
2) mostly restaurant work and bartending in nyc and currently R&D / conversational English teaching in non classroom environments in japan.
Not working towards anything in particular. just want to get settled enough to get by first.

[jimothybean]

im not looking to make a ton of money, just enough for an apartment and about 170,000 for spending a month.

When doing your calculations note that local/city taxes kick in after 1 year. Expect around 10% in taxes and national health insurance premiums to match (~10%+fixed minimum), though they are calculated off of your previous year's salary (hence the year delay).

[zmcnulty]

I'd encourage you to stay as well. I visit Sapporo yearly because it's a fun city, but I don't think I'd live there.
Susukino is loaded with bars, hostess clubs, soaps, etc., so it can be a fun place to hang out, but I can't imagine making a lot of new friends there. Dating hostesses gets old, fast.

That said, every year I find myself wanting to bust out of Tokyo and try the Car Danchi lifestyle for a season. Snowboarding there is good, but unless you can find an extremely flexible employer, it will be difficult.

Unrelated, but anyone visiting Sapporo should eat at this restaurant: http://www.noa-hakobune.jp/

[kurogane]

you mentioned headhunting, im going to start looking into that. hopefully English teaching in tokyo can pay between 250,000 and 300,000..

just to back up what Shakes Spear wrote above given that your written English evokes a spastic 12 year old hopped up on too much Sunny Delight playing at his mommy's compooter I would be very surprised if you were able to get a job involving English Education in any form that pays much more than you make now which isn't to say you're not a nice guy simply that your substandard English cannot help in your pursuit of a higher paying job because those sorts of jobs usually go to people like me that write English at least well and often exquisitely so unless you actually can do that and are just writing like a 20dumbthing on here because your lazy yeah I wouldn't get your hopes up and besides pay outside of Tokyo is always lower so dont think you can move to Sapporo and make more money which isn't to say you absolutely cannot simply that pay rates there are considerably lower and I believe the entire northern provinces are rather in the dumps economically

[skippyrobobuns]

Sapporo is a dead end. Even more so than Japan as a whole. There are always a couple thousand gaijins all skampering around, falling all over each other trying to land about 200 jobs all teaching English of course, and there is absolutely nothing else. An awful lot of Australians with criminal records, running skam schools, ripping teachers and each other off. I guess there is some ski resort someplace that has been oversold in OZ which is a BIG rip off cause nobody in their right mind would own overpriced property that nobody else wants, 8000 miles from their home in a country as shakey as Japan. There is a good reason that resort went bankrupt TWICE.

The natives are worse because none of them want to be there, and they act it. Hokkaido was first populated by prisoners as a penal colony (maybe thats why the Aussies like it so much) and it still is a dead end for dumping the unwanted and inept someplace out of sight and out of mind. Many a careerish womp has been thrown on the dung heap of Sapporo. The economy there always has been terrible, but now is worse in Hokkaido which has absolutely NO economic base whatsoever and depends entirely on handouts from Tokyo and a fickle tourist business.The perfect example of trying to put a temperate asian culture based on rice in a place better suited to meat and potatoes. They just can't do it, and will never get it right. The whole place is a branch of Tokyo. Just to put a fresh roll of toilet paper in the stalls there takes them three calls to the head office in Tokyo for a decision on whether they can afford it. Their only hope is to sell water rights to the Chicoms. There are a few gaijin losers running hole-in-the-wall bars in Suskino who have been on tourist visas for decades, a few Indians and Pakistanis trying to avoid starvation in the restaurant business and the usual University miserables with Ph.D.s coming out their behinds and teaching English conversation to dogs that will NEVER be able to speak, looking down their noses at everybody else. JALT is pretty good there, or at least it was...!

There is snow and lots of it, some people say they love snow but you can get too much of a good thing, and the summers are short and sweet blistering ovens with 20 hours of sunlight per day for about three weeks. The winters are 9 months of absolute depression. Sure there are mountains but who in their right mind snowboards 24/7 and honestly, there are better places in the world for that. There are only two seasons to speak of.The so called Ice Festival there is a grade ccc- on the world scale of festivals. They have a baseball team nobody is interested in despite having some real talent. Nightlife there is like living in an Alaskan frontier town that hasn't bothered to put up any buildings. Sure there are buildings there but nothing in them that is anywhere near appealing anyplace you would want to frequent. The food there is lousy. All it is is a cheap copy of the things everybody else sells all over the country anyway. The conbini is the only place to get anything edible. Sapporo Ramen? give me a break, Sapporo beer? Like beer can only be drunk in Sapporo?. Is it worth going all the way to Hokkaido for white chocolate that really isn't that great anyway.

NOBODY does Sapporo for long cause there really isn't any good reason.

[kurogane]

NOBODY does Sapporo for long cause there really isn't any good reason.

Well, I think we can take that as a No...............

Great rant, Skippy.

What's more, the skiing really isn't that good; they get lovely snow, but the terrain is middle level intermediate, and the season is rather short.

It is the nicest resort skiing in Japan, but like you noted..............big fish, tiny pond.

[Glenski]

I lived in Sapporo for 7 years. Am in a different part of Hokkaido now, 7 years later. What can I tell you? (I lived very briefly in Tokyo, but that was back in 1985.)

Sapporo gets 6 meters of snow per year. Summers are great, not as humid as Tokyo, but they can still be in the low 30s (degrees C).
The city is laid out in a rare grid fashion, like Kyoto, so it is generally easy to get around. Good public transportation. 2 million people fairly spread out. Very close to nature if you're into it.

There ARE a lot of foreigners there, though. Don't let anyone try to fool you about that. Competition for jobs is still high. Housing costs won't be like downtown Tokyo, but that's just obvious. You can live comfortably without being extremely frugal on a 250K salary, and you might have to commute 30-40 minutes into the city if you can't find something closer to downtown.

Bad thing is how to find jobs in English. Hokkaido Insider is a great newsletter for that, but many are reluctant to pay for the service. Considering it's the only publication that consolidates Hokkaido job ads, I say pay up, otherwise spend the hours needed to sift through internet pages to find scraps.

The JALT Hokkaido community is huge and largely focused in Sapporo. Great bunch of people.

Oh, and not only is immigration in the heart of the city (easy access), but the U.S. consulate is in Sapporo, too, in case you feel you need it.

[skippyrobobuns]

I lived in Sapporo for 7 years. Am in a different part of Hokkaido now, 7 years later. Oh, and not only is immigration in the heart of the city (easy access), but the U.S. consulate is in Sapporo, too, in case you feel you need it.

This is one of the strangest comments I have ever read (or heard) about Sapporo. There is nothing in the 'heart' of anyplace in Japan that is open to immigration. I assume you mean the subway there which is both excellent and vital given that the streets are usually impassable.

The real reason there is a US consulate there is a holdover from the cold war/Soviet Union days when everybody thought the USSR was going to take over the world. Too bad it never happened cause being posted in Sapporo is the death nil for a wannabe career diplomat these days.

Tokyo gets all the beans if you know what I mean.

Also glad to know JALT is still holding up the traditions.

Everybody knows where you are in Hokkaido Glenski. Thank the powers that be for your sake that prohibition was repealed back in '89.

[kurogane]

Ummm, you do know he merely meant that the Immigration Orifice is in the heart of the city, yeah!????

Anyways, as a side note: Sapporo is a great place to learn Japanese. Little accent or obscure, mumbled dialect, and tons of hot, bored hostesses willing to let you practice on them.................and then try your Japanese on them later.........

At any rate, it is no metropolis; more like a nice backwater for fat and baldings to move to with their Keiko and Kenjis when they get sick of real city life.

[skippyrobobuns]

I'm starting to understand the Glenski parody sites now.

Even Glenski seems to have his niche.

[Glenski]

This is one of the strangest comments I have ever read (or heard) about Sapporo. There is nothing in the 'heart' of anyplace in Japan that is open to immigration. I assume you mean the subway there which is both excellent and vital given that the streets are usually impassable.

No, I mean that right in downtown Sapporo there is the immigration office, thereby making it easy to reach. Clear now?l

Tokyo gets all the beans if you know what I mean.

Hey, we have Starbucks!!!

Thank the powers that be for your sake that prohibition was repealed back in '89.

My turn to say this is a bizarre comment.

I'm starting to understand the Glenski parody sites now.

Talk about having time on your hands. I couldn't care less about them.

[skippyrobobuns]

No, I mean that right in downtown Sapporo there is the immigration office, thereby making it easy to reach. Clear now?

Now I am truly impressed. The government of Japan actually thought enough of gaijins who actually would choose to take up residence in Hokkaido to put an Immigration office right in the middle of a city?

Holy cow. I am truly corrected and humbled that my initial impression of Sapporo/Hokkaido was mightly wrong.

I mean there must be something wrong with a bureacracy that would not put the only immigration office in Hokkaido out in the vast wastelands of Asahigawa on free abandonded land no less.

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/so...ddress/03.html

I mean there must be some malicious intent with the 37 other cities that have immigration offices in them that are far less remote and more centralized than for the benefit of people who have to drag their tired behinds to Sapporo?

My turn now to say this is a bizarre comment.

Also glad to know you dont concern yourself with the Glenski parody sites. I don't either.

[Instigator]

Sapporo is a dead end. Even more so than Japan as a whole. There are always a couple thousand gaijins all skampering around, falling all over each other trying to land about 200 jobs all teaching English of course, and there is absolutely nothing else. An awful lot of Australians with criminal records, running skam schools, ripping teachers and each other off. I guess there is some ski resort someplace that has been oversold in OZ which is a BIG rip off cause nobody in their right mind would own overpriced property that nobody else wants, 8000 miles from their home in a country as shakey as Japan. There is a good reason that resort went bankrupt TWICE.

The natives are worse because none of them want to be there, and they act it. Hokkaido was first populated by prisoners as a penal colony (maybe thats why the Aussies like it so much) and it still is a dead end for dumping the unwanted and inept someplace out of sight and out of mind. Many a careerish womp has been thrown on the dung heap of Sapporo. The economy there always has been terrible, but now is worse in Hokkaido which has absolutely NO economic base whatsoever and depends entirely on handouts from Tokyo and a fickle tourist business.The perfect example of trying to put a temperate asian culture based on rice in a place better suited to meat and potatoes. They just can't do it, and will never get it right. The whole place is a branch of Tokyo. Just to put a fresh roll of toilet paper in the stalls there takes them three calls to the head office in Tokyo for a decision on whether they can afford it. Their only hope is to sell water rights to the Chicoms. There are a few gaijin losers running hole-in-the-wall bars in Suskino who have been on tourist visas for decades, a few Indians and Pakistanis trying to avoid starvation in the restaurant business and the usual University miserables with Ph.D.s coming out their behinds and teaching English conversation to dogs that will NEVER be able to speak, looking down their noses at everybody else. JALT is pretty good there, or at least it was...!

There is snow and lots of it, some people say they love snow but you can get too much of a good thing, and the summers are short and sweet blistering ovens with 20 hours of sunlight per day for about three weeks. The winters are 9 months of absolute depression. Sure there are mountains but who in their right mind snowboards 24/7 and honestly, there are better places in the world for that. There are only two seasons to speak of.The so called Ice Festival there is a grade ccc- on the world scale of festivals. They have a baseball team nobody is interested in despite having some real talent. Nightlife there is like living in an Alaskan frontier town that hasn't bothered to put up any buildings. Sure there are buildings there but nothing in them that is anywhere near appealing anyplace you would want to frequent. The food there is lousy. All it is is a cheap copy of the things everybody else sells all over the country anyway. The conbini is the only place to get anything edible. Sapporo Ramen? give me a break, Sapporo beer? Like beer can only be drunk in Sapporo?. Is it worth going all the way to Hokkaido for white chocolate that really isn't that great anyway.

NOBODY does Sapporo for long cause there really isn't any good reason.

Look mate just because you're a deadbeat with no positive outlook on life, it doesn't mean Sapporo is a dead-end place. I am doing well, doing very well out here. Having lurked on this forum for about 15 mins I felt compelled to defend my new hometown from your wicked aspersions!

Hokkaido is the agricultural heartland of Japan. Especially in this age where agricultural self-sufficiency is seen as the priority, Hokkaido suddenly becomes a lot more important.

Frankly, I'm butthurt over these whiny, cynical, downbeat, pussies bitching about this and that.. You're not refugees, you can always go back with your tails between your legs to whatever hole you came out from.

@Kurogane Your English competency level is elementary at best, you have no place talking down on the original poster. Ever heard the saying 五十歩百歩？

[Mr Rudd]

I don't know how people can seriously say Sapporo is a bad place.

We're talking about a city of 2 million people with an extremely low crime rate compared to western cities, and a public transport system that is vastly superior to any US, Australian or Canadian city.

Healthcare is of a high standard. Broadband internet is of a higher standard than most countries.

The 2 airports are convenient and offer very regular flights to many domestic locations as well as some International flights.

Also, you can get just about any cuisine if you know how to use the Japanese websites such as Tabelog. Admittedly, Tokyo or Osaka have a much bigger range of restaurants, but the foreigners in these cities can't seem to afford lunch/dinner at nice restaurants anyway.

The city is clean and modern and personally I like the small houses and apartment buildings people live in - cosy in the truest sense of the word.

Cost of living is dramatically lower than the bigger cities.

Weather is cold, but I was in Singapore recently and found the 24/7 heat more depressing.