Kids classes/ at what age range does it stop being necessary to be a clown.

[Ken44]

Look at it this way: With your handle of "scoey" you already have a foot in the door to clown stardom!

Check out this fat _______:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnlUklEh6eg

You do what you gotta do to pay the bills.

[scipio]

speaking as someone who currently teaches kids as young as 3 and have taught elementary school kids in private lessons, the operative word is that you have to think and behave like a six year old if you want to connect to them. Kids dont connect to "study" out of text books, but stimulus, i.e movement, action and jumping around. Kids relate to things they understand. Food, colors, weather, numbers, clothing.
Currently I use flash cards, songs, games, picture books, realia (i,e real things that are not teaching materials as such) Kids have short attention spans (about 5-10 minutes) so you need to have plenty of activities lined up and to keep them occupied and busy. If they get bored they will tune out and let you know it, not like adults. You wiil (or should) use music in your lessons and they will copy what you do. If you dont do the action songs what message does that send to your students? You are too good for acting silly?
.

My my, how the mighty have fallen. From doing a doctorate in ELT and being a high powered instructor at uni, to clowning around in the classroom as the gaijin dancing monkey to 9 year olds. Your teaching methodology about kids sucks as much as your teaching methodology about teaching young adults, which went along the lines of the young adult language learner being akin to a piece of blotting paper whose second language production and recognition was purely a result of input.

However back to the issue at hand. Nope, you don't have to behave like a 7 year old on acid to be an effective instructor for children, it's just that the amateurs who run the program in japan and the echelons of the education ministry want you to behave so. Japanese children don't learn math by singing songs and playing games, why should learning English be so different?

There is no pedagogic reasoning for a lot of what is taking place in the young learners classroom in Japan, but there sure are a lot of insular xenophobic reasons for it happening. I never learnt French by singing 'Frere Jacques' a hundred times in my French classes, why should 'Old Mcdonald Had A Farm' or 'Heads Toes and Shoulders' have any different result for English?

There are obviously certain things you should do with a children's class, fun being the priori, but who as a child didn't have fun learning interesting things? There are also certain limitations to your powers of instruction with children. Second language learning is very much an 'acquisitional' process rather than a taught process in a children's classroom, often thru countless examples where they can practice and deduce by themselves the target language structure/lexis. Children often operate on an initial wholistic application of the rule to all and slowly through 'trial and error' elimination acquire the correct language usage.

You, as an instructor of children, can be as good or as bad an instructor as you wish to be. Ignore Kansaiben.

[haggydoggy]

The most important thing is to keep them focused on the activity and yes, some people will go over the top to draw the children in. I've found that when everyone is involved and doing something creative,for the most part,things run smoothly. It's when humans are bored...that's when the trouble begins !!

I agree.
When the teacher is energetic, the kids pick up on the enthusiasm and are more engaged. Many children learn best by doing and if the educator is seen as a person who couldn't give a crap about what they are teaching, then the children won't really care. So I would also say that you are looking at an older age group even out of high school (I remember learning Spanish in high school and the best Spanish teacher was the one who was energetic about it and kept us engaged.)

[KansaiBen]

My my, how the mighty have fallen. From doing a doctorate in ELT and being a high powered instructor at uni, to clowning around in the classroom as the gaijin dancing monkey to 9 year olds. Your teaching methodology about kids sucks as much as your teaching methodology about teaching young adults, which went along the lines of the young adult language learner being akin to a piece of blotting paper whose second language production and recognition was purely a result of input..

Being fallen is a hell of a lot better than being dead which has happened to at least 2 friends of mine. Once you are dead what you have done with your life will matter not one squat. You will be pushing up daisies.

You guys have your heads so far up your arse about status and job titles that you can see your colon.

PS I spoke to a friend of mine about university jobs and he says his take on it is that there are jobs but you have to kiss the right a--hole if you want to get hired. If you want to go through life being a kiss-___ and brown nose to get ahead you can have it. Not for me thanks.

[KansaiBen]

There are obviously certain things you should do with a children's class, fun being the priori, but who as a child didn't have fun learning interesting things? There are also certain limitations to your powers of instruction with children. Second language learning is very much an 'acquisitional' process rather than a taught process in a children's classroom, often thru countless examples where they can practice and deduce by themselves the target language structure/lexis. Children often operate on an initial wholistic application of the rule to all and slowly through 'trial and error' elimination acquire the correct language usage.

You, as an instructor of children, can be as good or as bad an instructor as you wish to be. Ignore Kansaiben.

That sounds like something straight out of Krashen. Applied Linguistics 101. Im guessing you have never taught kids, right?

PS the word is holistic, you ignorant pompous cow turd.

[KansaiBen]

Check out this fat _______:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnlUklEh6eg

You do what you gotta do to pay the bills.

As long as they pay you and he enjoys it who cares what people think? Only people like Scipio who has a huge inferiority complex and covers it up by using lots of big words and sounding intelligent when in fact he knows squat about anything.

[StarfoxPro]

Thanks for the helpful reply. I don't know if I'd say it's purely down to ego and pride, although clearly it plays a part. I do feel it's a bit outside of my comfort zone to act like that. As a result I think it looks very emotionally draining to do that act for hours a day several days every week. Fair enough though, I'm sure the fact that I have no experience with kids classes adds to this impression. Maybe you just get used to it. Then again I guess I'd have to be honest and say there are probably people who it comes to more naturally.

I may have forgotten what it was like to be 4 or 5, but I do remember that even in my early years of school at that age, the teacher did not act that way "dancing, singing always energetic etc". Maybe the hyper energetic act is better though, I'm no expert.

I guess my question was just when it comes to teaching English to kids, is that style the only show in town? Seems the answer is yes.
Just trying to get a bit of a handle on the situation/what I should expect before I go over.

I currently teach kids and being a "genki ball of energy" is part of your job whether you want to do it or not. There have been plenty of days where I don't feel like being genki and want to take it easy, but it is part of my job. The kids do not care if you had too much to drink the night before, the kids do not care if you had a fight with your girl friend, the kids do not care if you are having a bad day, they just want to have fun. If you seriously want to teach kids then that is the way it is done.

[madazzahatter]

I hope the reasons that I have posted previously ( and actually seriously for once ) were helpful. One thing I'd like to add,the most important thing that I have found is to make a connection with every child or class that you teach. If it's one to one,you need to make your initial connection and find out what interests the child. Say they are interested in "cars or flowers". Well,if you're teaching them numbers,guess what,take what they like "cars or flowers" and show them how to incorporate what you are teaching them into their everyday lives by counting "cars or flowers". When I teach at schools, I meet them outside the class and connect with them there. Be it at the front gate/door,on the playground,in the hallways....when you surprise them by talking to them when it's not "lesson time", you are again,building a connection. Even if you're playing soccer and not actually talking,it's the bond that helps. And,I'm crazy,so I always try to make them laugh. EVERYONE wants to have fun.

[scipio]

That sounds like something straight out of Krashen. Applied Linguistics 101.?.

And you have consistently sounded like Skinner 1955. Newsflash....

Language students are not pigeons and language competence involves more that doing a figure of eight.

By the way, if you had ever read Lynne Cameron, I have my dog eared copy in front of me now, you would know that your inconsistent meth induced parades of 5 minute activities going no where, was the antithesis of the young language learning classroom that she promoted.
She is a great believer in Piaget and Vygotsky, that the young language learner, mentally, is a selfish introspective recipient of instruction and information, and will apply their own worth to that information, according to their day to day experiences and the immediecy of result.

For a pleb like you, she was saying/implying that presenting a Japanese child with the present continuous (she is banging a futon) and familiar cultural lexis (a futon) has a million times the worth of singing for the hundred time 'London Bridge Is Falling Down' or 'on that farm he had some sheep'.

[honey]

I currently teach kids and being a "genki ball of energy" is part of your job whether you want to do it or not. There have been plenty of days where I don't feel like being genki and want to take it easy, but it is part of my job. The kids do not care if you had too much to drink the night before, the kids do not care if you had a fight with your girl friend, the kids do not care if you are having a bad day, they just want to have fun. If you seriously want to teach kids then that is the way it is done.

I think there is a problem with the way in which some English schools for kids interpret being "genki." In some schools, being "genki" is equivalent to being a dancing monkey--not my style. You can have enthusiasm for the students and the class without being a dancing monkey, but helping students learn English in a way that's still fun and exciting for them. At times, I think the more a school wants you to act like a fool for the students' entertainment, the less they know about how to (or even WANT TO) know about actually educating them.

[KansaiBen]

For a pleb like you, she was saying/implying that presenting a Japanese child with the present continuous (she is banging a futon) and familiar cultural lexis (a futon) has a million times the worth of presenting 'London Bridge Is Falling Down' or 'on that farm he had some sheep'.

You have not answered the question:

HAVE-YOU-TAUGHT-KIDS-OR-HAVE-YOU-JUST-READ-ABOUT-IT? I bet Lynne Cameron has never taught in Japan. Its a bit like saying you have traveled Europe because you read Lonely planet from cover to cover.

back at ya.

[KansaiBen]

By the way, if you had ever read Lynne Cameron, I have my dog eared copy in front of me now,

whats that sickly fishy smell? Why is your copy of Cameron so sticky? Oh.... thats why.

[scipio]

You have not answered the question:

HAVE-YOU-TAUGHT-KIDS-OR-HAVE-YOU-JUST-READ-ABOUT-IT? I bet Lynne Cameron has never taught in Japan.

back at ya.

Of course I've taught kids....Next year, March 2013, you could be using my materials.

[KansaiBen]

Of course I've taught kids....Next year, March 2013, you could be using my materials.

Not if I have anything to do with it. Will make great bonfire fuel though.

[Andun]

speaking as someone who currently teaches kids as young as 3 and have taught elementary school kids in private lessons, the operative word is that you have to think and behave like a six year old if you want to connect to them. Kids dont connect to "study" out of text books, but stimulus, i.e movement, action and jumping around. Kids relate to things they understand. Food, colors, weather, numbers, clothing.


Currently I use flash cards, songs, games, picture books, realia (i,e real things that are not teaching materials as such) Kids have short attention spans (about 5-10 minutes) so you need to have plenty of activities lined up and to keep them occupied and busy. If they get bored they will tune out and let you know it, not like adults. You wiil (or should) use music in your lessons and they will copy what you do. If you dont do the action songs what message does that send to your students? You are too good for acting silly?

Throw your ego and pride out the window if you want to make it teaching kids.

PS Kids are human too. problem is that you forgotten what its like to be 4 or 5 years old and its your ego thats standing in the way here.

Good post. I admire you for tackling preschool teaching at your age. I absolutely loathed it.
One thing I'll add is that all kids are different. I teach a lot of elementary and the gap between the abilities of kids in this age group can be huge ... which is very frustrating when teaching a number of kids at the same time. Some kids struggle with the most basic concepts of pronunciation and simple sentences. For these kids, as they only come once a week, you have to teach the same stuff over and over again until they get it (which can be months!). Games are 100% necessary for these kids and are the backbone of the lessons. I never sing with my elementary students (most of them are 8 and up). In kindergarten you need the singing, elementary ― not really necessary IMO.
At the other end of the spectrum there are kids who pick things up instantly. (I love these kids! Obviously) With these kids you can plow ahead and be finished junior high in a year! They still like games, of course. But you can use the games to practice more difficult material than you would with the slow kids.

[KansaiBen]

My my, how the mighty have fallen. From doing a doctorate in ELT and being a high powered instructor at uni, to clowning around in the classroom as the gaijin dancing monkey to 9 year olds. Your teaching methodology about kids sucks as much as your teaching methodology about teaching young adults, which went along the lines of the young adult language learner being akin to a piece of blotting paper whose second language production and recognition was purely a result of input.

coming from someone with zero experience in a kids classroom thats sayin something.

the difference between me and you is ego. Your ego gets in the way of you going outside your comfort zone and doing something different. worrying about what people think and whether you think (or other people think) you are compromising yourself. Thats what this whole PhD thing is about. Let me tell you moron. I didnt f--king do it for you or so i could be someone in your eyes. you are some nobody sitting at home wanking off to himself and making judgements about other people you dont even know.

You talk about methodology but spout off like some term paper you did in a weekend CELTA course. You know squat about what kids need. You cant even spell correctly for crying out loud and you are trying to tell me how to do my job.

OK so they are kindergarten or young learners. Does that make learning any less valuable or meaningful? Do you p-iss all over the million plus qualified kindergarten teachers and elementary teachers because they play with kids all day? thats what it sounds like. primary education is beneath you, you are such an utter fu-king snob that you the only way you feel good is to sh-it on other peoples job choices. LOSER.

As for the uni jobs... just had a friend at Doshisha (where i worked for 5 years) offer me some classes. Will depend very much on scheduling as to whether i will take it.

[scipio]

? Do you ____ all over the million plus qualified kindergarten teachers and elementary teachers because they play with kids all day? .

..........................

Classic

[caramellocap]

As somebody who has taught kids but also adult students, and has enough solid experience in teaching them when I was in Japan and Korea, I agree with Honey and Scipio mostly. Sorry Kansai Ben, again your state of mind is kinda worrying - your disproportionately offensive replies (fishy smell, sticky pages - what the fark?) sound really regressive.

Everyone who knows the state of English education and the results (or lack of em) in East Asian countries like Japan and Korea, understands that the failure of most Japanese and Korean people who learn English to get beyond the basics despite years of English education starts with the kind of education being given to kids then teenagers.

The 'It isn't serious learning English and it's fun to see whites and blacks clowning around because we know we Japanese and we Koreans are superior' attitude to English language learning contrasts embarassingly with the fluency of European children, teenagers and adults in countries such as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden. There are other countries that could be mentioned. The European fluency in English comes from studying it - not confining it to an activity that cannot really be taken seriously because of the Japanese and Korean inferiority-superiority complex regarding foreigners.

When I taught in Korea it was even worse than in Japan because at least the Japanese have the excuse of less exposure to English and fewer English classes. Korean primary/middle/high schools all have compulsory and frequent English classes - in fact I knew of some schools that had 3 English lessons a day including one with the native speaker, 2 English lessons a day are more usual.

Yet the majority of these students will grow up to consistently confuse the simple past and present tenses, be clueless about verb conjugation in their conversation, mix up 'he' and 'she' and plurals again and again etc.

I'm not denying there are good to very good to fluent Japanese and Korean speakers of English. But they are the exceptions, not the rule. There are relatively few genuinely good English speakers out of those who have studied English at school, university and privately or at their workplace, and that has much to do with the downgrading of English language learning as a language taught competently in the true sense in class.

The Japanese and Korean teachers have much to do with this at the school level, telling foreign teachers to give candy to the students (more in Korea) and encouraging their students' bad manners in English class by downgrading English class to entertainment and a break from study.

Students in Korea also are encouraged by the culture of resentment towards foreigners in Korea, and both Japanese and Korean students are influenced by the prevailing xenophobia in their countries - officially English language learning is desirable but language learning is as much about the culture behind the language as learning how to speak and write it.

Yet so many Japanese and more Koreans have the attitude that learning English is simply remembering phrases and that is a key reason why I have encountered so many adult students in both countries who have real difficulty with word order in English.

Sure kids at every level of schooling need to be shown that it is interesting to learn English and other languages but that doesn't preclude genuine study of the kind that makes many Europeans speak English well while giving less time and money to it.

[Andun]

Sure kids at every level of schooling need to be shown that English and other language learning is interesting but that doesn't preclude genuine study of the kind that makes many Europeans speak English well while giving less time and money to it.

A lack of concentrated exposure is a big reason why they never develop a high level of ability even if they get good lessons that are not just clowning around. One lesson a week just does not cut it. When I was in Taiwan I taught at an English language kindergarden. The kids were there every week day for a few hours a day ... and before a year was out they were all speaking English much as a native of the same age would.

[KansaiBen]

As somebody who has taught kids but also adult students, and has enough solid experience in teaching them when I was in Japan and Korea, I agree with Honey and Scipio mostly. Sorry Kansai Ben, again your state of mind is kinda worrying - your disproportionately offensive replies (fishy smell, sticky pages - what the fark?) sound really regressive.

Scipio is a first class TROLL and I will treat him as such. Pond amoeba scum.

Everyone who knows the state of English education and the results (or lack of em) in East Asian countries like Japan and Korea, understands that the failure of most Japanese and Korean people who learn English to get beyond the basics despite years of English education starts with the kind of education being given to kids then teenagers.

the difference between Japan and Korea is that if you want to get into a top Korean company you HAVE to be able to converse in English as well as have top TOEIC scores. that doesnt really exist in Japan. Koreans seem to be motivated to succeed as they know they need English but whereas in japan if you can speak English its like you become "less" Japanese. English ability is not a requirement unless you want to work at Rakuten or Google japan.

There are other countries that could be mentioned. The European fluency in English comes from studying it - not confining it to an activity that cannot really be taken seriously because of the Japanese and Korean inferiority-superiority complex regarding foreigners.

there are many Germans and Swedes who can not speak a lick of English, go figure.

Yet the majority of these students will grow up to consistently confuse the simple past and present tenses, be clueless about verb conjugation in their conversation, mix up 'he' and 'she' and plurals again and again etc.

So you mean to say if they mix them up then comprehension is impossible. may as well pack up and go home then. I just wonder how your Japanese sounds to them.

The Japanese and Korean teachers have much to do with this at the school level, telling foreign teachers to give candy to the students (more in Korea) and encouraging their students' bad manners in English class by downgrading English class to entertainment and a break from study.

Bit like the JET program.

[caramellocap]

But how does that explain the number of Europeans who are fluent in English from one lesson a day at school (talking about compulsory schooling here)? One of my best mates is Dutch, he and his friends are fluent, and they had no special schooling in English apart from the compulsory schooling. They are not the exception.

Same for the Germans, Swedes etc. I studied German at high school (5 yrs in Oz), doing it without bribes or entertainment. Maybe that's why I can still speak a fair bit of it and far better it seems than most of the Japanese and Koreans who have had intensive English education including paid lessons which I have never had. I am not unusual - I can speak fairly grammatically while so many Japanese and Korean 'English' speakers cannot even speak about the past without using the present tense.

My Japanese is fine thanks - and it was long before I met my J wife. I think laterally when speaking another language, that is I don't put it into my native language's structures and I don't consider speaking another language to be primarily about remembering phrases.

I don't put verbs, regular or irregular, into the wrong form as a habit. I have to be almost dead on my feet to make those kinds of mistakes in Japanese. Yet a constant feature of teaching adult Japanese and Koreans was the inability to differentiate between past and present without being corrected, and that was coming from too many students.

The use or rather non use of case was a big probem and again it's common. The difference between 'the', 'a, and 'an' isn't simple for a non native speaker of English to learn but again, given the amount of years spent by Japanese and Koreans learning English, the fact that this basic feature of English is so farked up says a lot about their attitudes to English and their ways of studying it.

Finally, Kansai Ben shouldn't worry about teaching kids despite his much higher qualifications. Life IS too short and if we let others' perceptions rule our thinking, damn we're gonna be regretful on our deathbed.

[KansaiBen]

But how does that explain the number of Europeans who are fluent in English from one lesson a day at school (talking about compulsory schooling here)? One of my best mates is Dutch, he and his friends are fluent, and they had no special schooling in English apart from the compulsory schooling. They are not the exception.

I have my own take on the matter. Speaking as a parent of two bilingual kids I have had my own share of tribulations getting kids to learn English at considerable expense. Do not assume for one minute becuase one parent is a native speaker that kids will magically speak English. Far from it.,


I can not speak for German parents or Swedish parents but Krashen had a lot of it right when he wrote about his rules for language acquisition (and that includes native language, second language usually just comes later). One or more is missing then it can compromise whether or not kids learn a foreign language.

1. acquisition order. Language is learnt in a progression from easier to harder. Present tenses, past tense, future tense. Conditionals. Modal verbs. Usually you dont learn harder ones before easier ones.

2. Kids learn according to what they know. All 4 year olds know about is their daily lives. Eat, sh-it, go to school, play and sh-it again.
Food colors, numbers, the weather. clothing. they learn about what they can identify with, not this is a pen and describing their families. All I use in class is flash cards, Phonics books, balls, music. Comprehensible Input, Kids need to understand and identify with what you are teaching them.


3. Kids need to know why they are doing something. Kids at 3 years old dont know what English is, they dont even know Japanese, All they know is this strange person comes to their school and plays with them, does songs and eats lunch with them. At first they are nervous and timid but once they open up to you they are all over you. That is something i missed with my own kids when they were growing up so now Im compensating, so sue me.

4. Lots of practice. Kids feel comfortable with what they know and if its fun they will keep doing it even 10 or 20 times. Its play to them, not study, not benkyo. Bella mentioned making mistakes on purpose, kids love pointing out teacher mistakes or things that are "not right". Get rid of the ego or self awareness and have fun with it. I get the sense that Scipio etc is more concerned with appearance and what people think than believing in what he is doing. Worried more about what they write on his tombstone than "he did his best and gave his all and kids loved him". Pride and vanity is a dangerous thing.

The problem with high school and college kids is they have been brainwashed into thinking Engish is hard, its beyond their abilities yet you have kindy kids just jump into it with both feet, they dont care about mistakes or looking stupid. You have 3 year olds who know words like newspaper and queen and cucumber and green pepper. Blows your mind, yet I have college students I can't get two words out of.

My son wouldnt speak English because he was worried about being teased at school being different and showing off to his friends. It was only after he went to Australia he realized how important English was. Most kids in Japan dont have a foreign parent cant be sent overseas to study so i don't think we should be too hard on them if they can pick it up as fast as we would like them to.

[scipio]

Kids at 3 years old dont know what English is, they dont even know Japanese, All they know is this strange person comes to their school and plays with them, .

Another classic. If anyone needed a crash course in pragmatics, look no further.

By the way Krahen's distinctions on the order of first language syntax acquired/learnt was not based on level of difficulty, but on the relevance to actual real time v grammatical time, and the learner's life experiences. He used the 5 s in English, if I remember correctly, to show the consistency of first language learning and never mentioned modality or the English future aspect. Maybe you're getting confused with Michael Lewis and 'The English Verb'. The order went...
1. The Anglo-Saxon genitive, Daddy's money.
2. The plural of countable nouns. Two kids that hate Daddy.
3. Present continuous. Daddy's crying.
4. Third person. Mummy hates daddy
5. Present perfect simple. Mummy's slept with half of Australia.
Again, if memory serves me well, Krashen's point was that the Present Perfect Simple was a structure that children didn't use properly until they were 10-11 and therefore was learnt syntax, rather than acquired syntax.

As a final point, 10 years ago on this site people like myself and others were discussing our experiences of teaching children in Japan, while you were swinging your ____ around on the site saying uni teaching was the only place to be and we were low paid scum.
People need only do the basic of GP searches to see it was so.

How times have changed?

[KansaiBen]

As a final point, 10 years ago on this site people like myself and others were discussing our experiences of teaching children in Japan, while you were swinging your ____ around on the site saying uni teaching was the only place to be and we were low paid scum.
People need only do the basic of GP searches to see it was so.

How times have changed?

You probably are still low paid scum, and I still have my university jobs, teaching kids is another string to my bow. I would not be able to survive full time on what they pay me though.

[honey]

You probably are still low paid scum, and I still have my university jobs, teaching kids is another string to my bow. I would not be able to survive full time on what they pay me though.

Did your hours get cut? Or is this a case of someone saying, "Yes, I work as an adjunct professor at Harvard, but I also work at Walmart part-time, just in case?" In that case, wouldn't it be better to seek a university position that was tenured? (Seriously, not clowning you. I'm just curious.)

[KansaiBen]

Did your hours get cut? Or is this a case of someone saying, "Yes, I work as an adjunct professor at Harvard, but I also work at Walmart part-time, just in case?" In that case, wouldn't it be better to seek a university position that was tenured? (Seriously, not clowning you. I'm just curious.)

Yes my hours were cut as the school hired a full time (contract) teacher and they took away hours from the part timers to give to her. Have been offered classes maybe later on this year.

You want to tell me where the tenured positions are in Japan?

[KansaiBen]

Are you even qualified for tenured positions?

seems lots of Japanese professors without a PhD are. They treat foreigners differently though. The school I work at the full timers have meetings till midnight. Great work if you can get it.

[KansaiBen]

Yet one of your many failures in life.

So what's it to you? I dont see you crying in your beer about it,

tick tock tick tock.

[KansaiBen]

Yep the locals get preferential treatment. No question, but face it you wanted tenure and could not get it..

Which means that Japanese universities on the whole are racist, prejudiced and they look after their own. I have no idea why you think I have any aspirations to work for such people, except to indulge in some pri-ck contest among a bunch of troll gaijin.

[twelvedown]

When I first started teaching in Asia about 10 years ago I was mortified at the thought of singing or acting like a gorilla or something.
Now there is nothing I won't do. I would be more than happy to walk around with a ficus on my head if it meant getting the kids interested.

Unfortunately it has turned me into a bit of an attention whore outside school too.

My theory of education:

The kids have to be kept interested (they don't need to be kept excited and laughing all the time though)

Repetition. class after class, week after week until they have it down flat. - and then stop and teach them something new. If they all know the ABC song then why bother doing it again?)

One of the main problems is teachers trying to teach a set lesson then moving on to another set lesson the next week and the next week.
Sure, you've covered a lot of material but the kids haven't learned a damn thing.

[honey]

Yes my hours were cut as the school hired a full time (contract) teacher and they took away hours from the part timers to give to her. Have been offered classes maybe later on this year.

You want to tell me where the tenured positions are in Japan?

You are asking someone who has absolutely no interest in teaching university in Japan where the tenured positions are? If, out of the two of us, you are the university professor, who do you think would be more privy to that information?

[KansaiBen]

You are asking someone who has absolutely no interest in teaching university in Japan where the tenured positions are? If, out of the two of us, you are the university professor, who do you think would be more privy to that information?

I know where the jobs are, having had two full time jobs in the past. Tenured jobs in TESOL are virtually non-existent as you have to wait for someone to die or retire. there are people with PhD's and publications up the kaboodle in line ahead of me. If you get hired by idiots then you are basically stuck with them for life.

Most if not all teaching jobs for foreigners are on a contract basis, one to three years., It usually means sending out 50-100 resumes every three years, running all over the country, to get a job just so you can be laid off in three years.

Tenure doesnt really exist, what they do is renew your contract every three years until you retire and they can fire you at any time. I have seen it happen to good people. I just decided I didnt want to go through all that BS as a career.

Compared to working in an eikaiwa or a dispatch company university jobs by far pay better wages but nowadays are getting harder to get and there is far less job security than 5 or 10 years ago.

[caramellocap]

Come on, come on - the complete ignorance of the whole debate about non tenure for gaijin university teachers in Japan by those of you questioning Kansai Ben is obvious. It's like saying, "Oh was Bill Clinton president of the USA?" Been there, done that.

Since the 1990s there has been a big debate in the native English speaking community in Japan about how the gaijin have been shafted again and again by the removal of tenure and other means to be secure in a university/college job. Don't get all snotty at Kansai Ben for stating the truth. Debbito and Tokyo Jon who still has a website with black lists and green lists for schools/colleges/universities in Japan and Korea covered this some time ago.

JALT made this an issue some time ago. The discriminatory practices of Japanese universities/colleges have been open knowledge since the 1990s. Don't all pretend that Kansai Ben is going off on something that is not objective - it's true, it's been that way for some time now. He has every right to say what he is saying based on his first-hand experience of working in a Japanese university.

The trend in developed countries is for part time work. It's certainly true of Japan - look at all the outsourcing of jobs including university and company jobs to scummy dispatch companies. The full time positions are rapidly disappearing - and the universities and companies actually hur themselves by doing that but they won't learn.

Kansai Ben is stating facts here - and they're facts that have been known for a long time. Glenski is also a source of authentic information on these kinds of things.

[KansaiBen]

Kansai Ben is stating facts here - and they're facts that have been known for a long time. Glenski is also a source of authentic information on these kinds of things.

And even if I did get a tenured job I would still have trolls on here picking holes in it. I had people question the phD I was doing saying it was a doctorate in ESL (which it wasnt) which is somehow "less" than a real doctorate. A PhD is STILL a doctor.

I still have child support and other bills to pay and cant afford to sit around crying in my beer as to whether my jobs match up to peoples expectations.

[honey]

Come on, come on - the complete ignorance of the whole debate about non tenure for gaijin university teachers in Japan by those of you questioning Kansai Ben is obvious. It's like saying, "Oh was Bill Clinton president of the USA?" Been there, done that.

Since the 1990s there has been a big debate in the native English speaking community in Japan about how the gaijin have been shafted again and again by the removal of tenure and other means to be secure in a university/college job. Don't get all snotty at Kansai Ben for stating the truth. Debbito and Tokyo Jon who still has a website with black lists and green lists for schools/colleges/universities in Japan and Korea covered this some time ago.

JALT made this an issue some time ago. The discriminatory practices of Japanese universities/colleges have been open knowledge since the 1990s. Don't all pretend that Kansai Ben is going off on something that is not objective - it's true, it's been that way for some time now. He has every right to say what he is saying based on his first-hand experience of working in a Japanese university.

The trend in developed countries is for part time work. It's certainly true of Japan - look at all the outsourcing of jobs including university and company jobs to scummy dispatch companies. The full time positions are rapidly disappearing - and the universities and companies actually hur themselves by doing that but they won't learn.

Kansai Ben is stating facts here - and they're facts that have been known for a long time. Glenski is also a source of authentic information on these kinds of things.

Overanalyzing much?

I was just wondering why Kansaiben hadn't gone the tenured route. He answered my question with a question, when all he could have done was state that tenured positions aren't readily available to foreigners. I don't teach at university level, nor do I ever intend to teach there, so it would make zero sense for me to know anything about it.

Some of you are a little oversensitive for no apparent reason.

[KansaiBen]

Some of you are a little oversensitive for no apparent reason.

reply by PM

[Ken44]

....
The trend in developed countries is for part time work. It's certainly true of Japan - look at all the outsourcing of jobs including university and company jobs to scummy dispatch companies. The full time positions are rapidly disappearing - and the universities and companies actually hur themselves by doing that but they won't learn.

I agree with the above except for the part about outsourcing J-uni jobs.

There was a lot of discussion and worry over the issue of outsourcing uni work some years back but I`ve not seen it grow in the Tokyo area.

Nor have I heard many p/t teachers mention it as a problem.

Again I`m not saying outsourcing of uni classes isn`t taking place but that I haven`t seen it turn into a major concern.

[honey]

reply by PM

I got it. Thanks for your PM.

[Ken44]

Overanalyzing much?

I was just wondering why Kansaiben hadn't gone the tenured route. He answered my question with a question, when all he could have done was state that tenured positions aren't readily available to foreigners. I don't teach at university level, nor do I ever intend to teach there, so it would make zero sense for me to know anything about it.

Some of you are a little oversensitive for no apparent reason.

The competition for a tenured position is extremely competitive. From what I`ve read about KB background he doesn`t have a PhD and these days (without a proper connection) this is almost mandatory. Add in the number of universities I now see which elect to hire from overseas and indivuals like KB that were once highly qualified are a dime a dozen.

Limited 5 years contacts are now the new "tenured positions" and many gaijins will do almost anything to land such a position.

[honey]

The competition for a tenured position is extremely competitive. From what I`ve rather about KB background he doesn`t have a PhD and these days (without a proper connection) this is almost mandatory. Add in the number of universities I now see which elect to hire from overseas and indivuals like KB that were once highly qualified are a dime a dozen.

Limited 5 years contacts are now the new "tenured positions" and many gaijins will do almost anything to land such a position.

Okay, I see. Thanks for the explanation.