Loophole in labor law?

[ToshiCG]

I decided to quit my job in a computer graphics company in Japan due to unacceptable working conditions - long hours(around 11hours/day, often longer), unpaid overtime etc. I know that's not unusual for Japan, but it's still unacceptable for me personally.

I am on good terms with my boss so we had a frank conversation about the things I didn't agree with. He then told me that there is a law which basically makes those working conditions legal. Unfortunately, I don't remember the Japanese term he used.

Honestly, I don't believe there is a law that would allow an employer to exploit his people like that but I was wondering if there is some loophole that makes his business at least semi legal.
Again, it's a computer graphics company, I guess that falls under IT. My boss told me that some IT/programming companies also make use of that particular "law".

Any ideas what law he was referring to?

[wernst]

Not a real answer but CG jobs in Japan are unfortunately waaaaay UNDERPAID. Which makes me wish I had studied to become a language teacher or manwhore.

[ToshiCG]

Haha, yeah, it's so easy to exploit our silly, romantic notion that we are doing what we love, so we must be the happiest people in the world.
I think it's possible to make a comfortable living as a CG artist though. What I am doing now is going for bigger companies, as they are under more pressure to obey the laws.

[skippyrobobuns]

I think it's possible to make a comfortable living as a CG artist though. What I am doing now is going for bigger companies, as they are under more pressure to obey the laws.

You can spend all your effort trying to find a company that obeys the law but you will look far and wide and probably NEVER find one. The loop hole in the labor law is the fact that they get away with hiring you indirectly. They are all rip offs because of the hakken gaishas that hire you and are hired to keep you one step away from the real company. Some people have done VERY well by educating themselves to what the labor law is and documenting the abuses of companies henceforeth taking them to court and suing for damages.

That is much less work but probably too American an outlook for some people who still believe in fairy tales and the land of OZ where everybody gets their dreams if the play by the rules.

[ToshiCG]

I have never applied for a job through a haken gaisha. Not a big fan of The wizard of OZ either

I have friends in the CG/game industry (in Japan) who are doing well, so I'd say it is possible to find a decent employment.

[skippyrobobuns]

I have friends in the CG/game industry (in Japan) who are doing well, so I'd say it is possible to find a decent employment.

I have friends who are doing well (by what standard?) therefore I will do well....??

I think I have heard this someplace before, methinks

Show us the mustard on that hot dog, big boy, then methinks I may chose to believe

[ToshiCG]

Ok, you troll by twisting people's words, got it.
Anyway, back on topic, if anyone has anything to add.

[trip_hop]

There are a number of industries that are exempt from the clauses on working hours, such as media, events, medical, etc.,
even for their own regular staff.

Remember the Labour Laws are guidelines, and as such as open to interpretation, not usually in an employee's favour....

[bugbug0102]

I do not believe it is a loophole since it is a kind of Japanese culture that requires people OT

[Effected After]

"I think my boss said something about something, that means he can do something else. You know what I'm talking about?

Come up with something we can actually work with, and maybe we can help you.

[ToshiCG]

Thanks for clarifying that, trip_hop! Good information!

bugbug0102 - yes, it's a cultural thing; however, it's definitely not my favorite part of Japanese culture

[ttokyo]

I decided to quit my job in a computer graphics company in Japan due to unacceptable working conditions - long hours(around 11hours/day, often longer), unpaid overtime etc. I know that's not unusual for Japan, but it's still unacceptable for me personally.

I am on good terms with my boss so we had a frank conversation about the things I didn't agree with. He then told me that there is a law which basically makes those working conditions legal. Unfortunately, I don't remember the Japanese term he used.

The main law is the labor standards law. Under no circumstances, it is 'legal' to ask for unpaid overtime. If your contract or the working rules state that working hours are e.g. 8:45 to 17:30 with one hour lunch break, there is no way he can legally force you to stay later unless it is documented and paid.
That this will not look good for a promotion or raise is another thing.
Some companies might get around that by hiring contractors who get paid for results, e.g. for a module or a webpage. Then it would be up to these contractors to decide how long they would work. There are almost no rules on self-employment.

[Effected After]

The main law is the labor standards law. Under no circumstances, it is 'legal' to ask for unpaid overtime. If your contract or the working rules state that working hours are e.g. 8:45 to 17:30 with one hour lunch break, there is no way he can legally force you to stay later unless it is documented and paid.

My old company had the working hours specifically outlined in the contract. But the contract also had a clause that 20% of our salary was 'pre-paid overtime'. So the company could legally force us to stay on after those hours, as they had already paid us for them. The good news is, they never asked me to stay overtime, and I only put in about 5 hours of overtime per month.

I didn't like it, but when I talked to a lawyer, he said it was entirely legal.

[ToshiCG]

The main law is the labor standards law. Under no circumstances, it is 'legal' to ask for unpaid overtime. If your contract or the working rules state that working hours are e.g. 8:45 to 17:30 with one hour lunch break, there is no way he can legally force you to stay later unless it is documented and paid.

My contract actually defined working hours as "10時より～" I not kidding, it does not say anything about the end of the workday. I was very stupid to accept such conditions.

Some companies might get around that by hiring contractors who get paid for results, e.g. for a module or a webpage. Then it would be up to these contractors to decide how long they would work. There are almost no rules on self-employment.

Hmm, yeah, this could what he meant! I'll probably have another talk with him before I leave. I'll try to confirm it then.

[blacksunshine]

My old company had the working hours specifically outlined in the contract. But the contract also had a clause that 20% of our salary was 'pre-paid overtime'. So the company could legally force us to stay on after those hours, as they had already paid us for them. The good news is, they never asked me to stay overtime, and I only put in about 5 hours of overtime per month.

I didn't like it, but when I talked to a lawyer, he said it was entirely legal.

This - the company I work for has working ours set - but then it says that two hours of over time a day are worked into the pay as well.

[ttokyo]

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go..._main?vm=&id=5

第二章　労働契約
CHAPTER II LABOR CONTRACT
（この法律違反の契約）
(Contract Violating This Act)
第十三条　この法律で定める基準に達しない労働条件を 定める労働契約は、その部分については無効とする。こ の場合において、無効となつた部分は、この法律で定め る基準による。
Article 13　A labor contract which provides for working conditions which do not meet the standards of this Act shall be invalid with respect to such portions. In such a case the portions which have become invalid shall be governed by the standards set forth in this Act.

（労働条件の明示）
(Clear Indication of Working Conditions)
第十五条　使用者は、労働契約の締結に際し、労働者に 対して賃金、労働時間その他の労働条件を明示しなけれ ばならない。この場合において、賃金及び労働時間に関 する事項その他の厚生労働省令で定める事項については 、厚生労働省令で定める方法により明示しなければなら ない。
Article 15　In concluding a labor contract, the employer shall clearly indicate the wages, working hours and other working conditions to the worker. In this case, matters concerning wages and working hours and other matters stipulated by Ordinance of the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare shall be clearly indicated in the manner prescribed by Ordinance of the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare.

（労働時間）
(Working Hours)
第三十二条　使用者は、労働者に、休憩時間を除き一週 間について四十時間を超えて、労働させてはならない。
Article 32　An employer shall not have a worker work more than 40 hours per week, excluding rest periods.
２　使用者は、一週間の各日については、労働者に、休 憩時間を除き一日について八時間を超えて、労働させて はならない。
(2)　An employer shall not have a worker work more than 8 hours per day for each day of the week, excluding rest periods.

第三十二条の二　使用者は、当該事業場に、労働者の過 半数で組織する労働組合がある場合においてはその労働 組合、労働者の過半数で組織する労働組合がない場合に おいては労働者の過半数を代表する者との書面による協 定により、又は就業規則その他これに準ずるものにより 、一箇月以内の一定の期間を平均し一週間当たりの労働 時間が前条第一項の労働時間を超えない定めをしたとき は、同条の規定にかかわらず、その定めにより、特定さ れた週において同項の労働時間又は特定された日におい て同条第二項の労働時間を超えて、労働させることがで きる。
Article 32-2　In the event that an employer has stipulated, pursuant to a written agreement with a labor union organized by a majority of the workers at the workplace (in the case that such labor union is organized), or with a person representing a majority of the workers (in the case that such union is not organized), or pursuant to rules of employment or the equivalent thereof, that the average working hours per week over the course of a fixed period of no more than one month will not exceed the working hours set forth in paragraph (1) of the preceding Article, the employer may, in accordance with such stipulation and regardless of the provisions of the preceding Article, have a worker work in excess of the working hours set forth in paragraph (1) of the preceding Article in a specified week or weeks and may have a worker work in excess of the working hours set forth in paragraph (2) of the preceding Article in a specified day or days.

（時間外、休日及び深夜の割増賃金）
(Increased Wages for Overtime Work, Work on Days Off and Night Work)
第三十七条　使用者が、第三十三条又は前条第一項の規 定により労働時間を延長し、又は休日に労働させた場合 においては、その時間又はその日の労働については、通 常の労働時間又は労働日の賃金の計算額の二割五分以上 五割以下の範囲内でそれぞれ政令で定める率以上の率で 計算した割増賃金を支払わなければならない。
Article 37　In the event that an employer extends the working hours or has a worker work on a day off pursuant to the provisions of Article 33 or paragraph (1) of the preceding Article, the employer shall pay increased wages for work during such hours or on such days at a rate no less than the rate stipulated by cabinet order within the range of no less than 25 percent and no more than 50 percent over the normal wage per working hour or working day.

[Effected After]

Just enough information for someone to get themselves into trouble.

If you showed actual real-life situations where this law had worked in someones favor it would be more beneficial.

[ToshiCG]

OK, I got it: what they use/abuse is 裁量労働制 - "discretionary labor system".

I am still researching but it seems to be some kind of flexible hours system (and in some cases unpaid overtime disguised as flexible hours).

If anyone has experience dealing with this I'd appreciate your input. It appears that most CG and game companies are using this system.

[Effected After]

Much better - now we have something to work with.

OK, I got it: what they use/abuse is 裁量労働制 - "discretionary labor system".

AKA - flex time. Unfortunately, I know nothing about it. But a quick search found this little nugget:

Employee Convenience Flexitime.

Under this system, the employee can set his own starting and finishing times. When a company agrees to this system it must conclude a labor agreement spelling out the scope of the employees covered by the system, settlement of accounts timing, working time, daily standard hours, core time and flexible time.

Of course, if a company's workers work at any convenient time, it can cause confusion in company operations. Thus a company can set a time such as 10:30 to 3:30 during which all workers shall be working, and this can be called the core work time. This kind of core time is not particularly required by law, but if it is established, it should be made clear in the labor agreement.

When a flextime system is established, the settlement of accounts for the workers shall be within one month. Work in excess of the ordinary work time constitutes overtime and requires increased compensation.

However, work on legal holidays in the flextime system can not be included in the calculaton of work time. Such work is calculated under a separate framework at higher rates. On the other hand, work on days off other than holidays are included in the calculation of work time under the flextime system and overtime pay is not specially required.

On top of this, in the execution of this kind of system, there are several regulations. Atlhough the flex time system is convenient in the sense of the employee being able to balance work time and his private life, it does create differing levels of benefits to each of the employees, based on the characteristics of each job, it can create feelings of unfairness among the employees. Thus it is important to both the employer and the employees to take a cooperative stance in the appropriate operations of such a system.

Link

Of course, who knows if this guy knows what he is talking about or not.

Edit: reading a little further on the subject, it appears that the relevant law is article 32-2 of the Labor Standards law. TTokyo posted this above.