Foreign pseudo-bibles?

[dorpus]

I'm reading the Heliand now, written for ancient Saxons: a world where the "word of God" is a literal spell incantation, the "four apostles" (the bravest warriors of all) learn these spells and shoot magic from their fingers, Jesus hangs from a holy tree in a druid-like sacrifice, the Holy Spirit jumps into Mary's belly and becomes Jesus (in a twisted interpretation of the Nicene creed), the "helmet-loving Romans" live in their vast hill-fort of Rome, etc.

Given the proliferation of pseudo-Christian religions in the world today, are there comparable works made by other countries? (I grew up in Asia and read bits and pieces of Jesus who acted oddly like Buddha.)

Thanks

[Andun]

Nothing in Japan AFAIK. Christianity came to Japan in the 16th Century but there are no known bible translations from that time so they must have taught by word of mouth. Anyway the Christians were soon booted out and didn't return until the Meiji era when the first published translations appeared.
Christianity never really took off in Asian up until modern times so I'm guessing there are no mythological texts in native languages regarding Christianity.

[thefg]

I'm reading the Heliand now, written for ancient Saxons: a world where the "word of God" is a literal spell incantation, the "four apostles" (the bravest warriors of all) learn these spells and shoot magic from their fingers, Jesus hangs from a holy tree in a druid-like sacrifice, the Holy Spirit jumps into Mary's belly and becomes Jesus (in a twisted interpretation of the Nicene creed), the "helmet-loving Romans" live in their vast hill-fort of Rome, etc.

Given the proliferation of pseudo-Christian religions in the world today, are there comparable works made by other countries? (I grew up in Asia and read bits and pieces of Jesus who acted oddly like Buddha.)

Thanks

They all have the same themes for the same reasons

they are all written by man, to control man. and men no mater where they are from respond to the same basic triggers.


all religion is BS.

the deeper you delve the more clearer that becomes

[TJrandom]

...so I'm guessing there are no mythological texts in native languages regarding Christianity.

Except of course those in Latin, Old English, Hebrew, etc. – just none in Asian languages – buy mythological texts in native languages none the less.

[dorpus]

For example, the Oomoto gospel features a christ-like birth in the snow, a family of carpenters, revelations from God sitting on a throne, and a pentecost-like trance of writing words -- mixed in with ablutions by ice water, an abacus fortune teller who puts the spirit of God in a box but God comes back out, and a magi-like "Man from the East" whom the christ girl marries.

http://www.oomoto.or.jp/English/enKy...den/index.html

[dorpus]

They all have the same themes for the same reasons
they are all written by man, to control man. and men no mater where they are from respond to the same basic triggers.
all religion is BS.
the deeper you delve the more clearer that becomes

I used to think like that until I got my PhD in statistics, and learned the deeper secrets of science. Scientific reasoning, when examined deeply, is highly arbitrary and no better than organized religion.

[TJrandom]

... Scientific reasoning, when examined deeply, is highly arbitrary and no better than organized religion.

I take it you used the theocratic method to reach that conclusion….

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

Scientific reasoning

organized religion

Enlighten me. Statistically speaking, how often does one compare these two together?

[dorpus]

Except of course those in Latin, Old English, Hebrew, etc. – just none in Asian languages – buy mythological texts in native languages none the less.

In China, Nestorian christianity dates to the 7th century, and experienced rapid growth until 1368. The Nestorians brought in Roman Catholic missionaries, who upset the Chinese emperor and he condemned Christianity. But from the 16th century onward, Christianity steadily re-grew in China due to trade with the West. The Nestorian monks left a legacy of pilgrimage to the West、which may have inspired the Chinese Buddhist classic novel "Journey to the West". The Guanyin deity shows evidence of being inspired by the Virgin Mary, and this spread to Japan in the form of Kannon. Afterwards, when Roman Catholic missionaries arrived in Japan, kannon became a way of secret worship, with concealed crosses in the statues.

[TJrandom]

..., with concealed crosses in the statues.

Yes indeed - good old post and beam construction - there is a cross in every home, barn, chicken coop, pig sty - you name it - if built of wood by man - then surely it is hiding a cross somewhere within.

[Piethrower]

I used to think like that until I got my PhD in statistics, and learned the deeper secrets of science. Scientific reasoning, when examined deeply, is highly arbitrary and no better than organized religion.

Certainly, science is no better than organized religion - I find both unnecessarily complicated.

When it comes down to it, our purpose here is to eat & f*ck and we can do both without science or religion quite happily but all it took for us to get sidetracked was for some a$$hole to start asking a lot of pointless questions like: Who will lead us to food? Why does stolen food taste so sweet? Can I eat anything I want and still lose weight? And- Can I f*ck that woman and that woman and that one too in exchange for food? How many men must a man beat up before he can f*ck Julia Roberts? And so on until another a$$hole decided that there must be answers to these questions when in fact everything has always been permitted and he formed a committee which wrote books so ridiculously cryptic that you could use them to answer the unanswerable.

You're a PhD, huh?

[dorpus]

Certainly, science is no better than organized religion - I find both unnecessarily complicated.
When it comes down to it, our purpose here is to eat & f*ck and we can do both without science or religion quite happily but all it took for us to get sidetracked was for some a$$hole to start asking a lot of pointless questions like: Who will lead us to food? Why does stolen food taste so sweet? Can I eat anything I want and still lose weight? And- Can I f*ck that woman and that woman and that one too in exchange for food? How many men must a man beat up before he can f*ck Julia Roberts? And so on until another a$$hole decided that there must be answers to these questions when in fact everything has always been permitted and he formed a committee which wrote books so ridiculously cryptic that you could use them to answer the unanswerable.

Anarchy and hedonism have appeared throughout the world, throughout history. But in the long run, people craved social order because the lawlessness got in the way of pursuing their pleasures. And when people got bored of booze and sex, or pleasure in general, they wanted to soothe their egos by looking back on their lives and saying they accomplished something for the wider world. So yes, stifling social orders -- whatever form they take -- are here to stay.

[TJrandom]

... And when people got bored of booze and sex, or pleasure in general, ...

No way... when did anyone ever get bored with booze and sex - or pleasure in general? I suspect that you have the cart before the horse. More likely that people got tired of religion and turned to booze and sex. Religion serves no purpose other than to soothe the minds of those deprived of enought booze and sex - don't ya think?

[Call_It_Like_Eye_See_It]

I always swear to God...

when I get in trouble with the law...

[thefg]

I used to think like that until I got my PhD in statistics, and learned the deeper secrets of science. Scientific reasoning, when examined deeply, is highly arbitrary and no better than organized religion.

what a load of nonsense.


clearly we got our PhDs from very different universities



Should you be using the internet anyway - you do know electricity is the devils work right?

[thefg]

Yes indeed - good old post and beam construction - there is a cross in every home, barn, chicken coop, pig sty - you name it - if built of wood by man - then surely it is hiding a cross somewhere within.

and a few masonic symbols naturally

[thefg]

No way... when did anyone ever get bored with booze and sex - or pleasure in general? I suspect that you have the cart before the horse. More likely that people got tired of religion and turned to booze and sex. Religion serves no purpose other than to soothe the minds of those deprived of enought booze and sex - don't ya think?

Religion often was a means to control the population - still is in many countries

religion grows from society. a society needs laws to work, needs rules.


when we were primitive and stupid we needed to be scared like children, now as educated civilised 'adults' we dont. we can replace religion with the law. we can follow the law - religion as a form of control is no longer needed and thankfully on the decline (in the developed civilised world, see above)


when oh when will we all grow up?

[thefg]

Anarchy and hedonism have appeared throughout the world, throughout history. But in the long run, people craved social order because the lawlessness got in the way of pursuing their pleasures. And when people got bored of booze and sex, or pleasure in general, they wanted to soothe their egos by looking back on their lives and saying they accomplished something for the wider world. So yes, stifling social orders -- whatever form they take -- are here to stay.

nice spin.

the reality is not that the people got bored with lawlessness booze and sex. the reality is the people who governed the people needed to stop them having fun to control the masses to better serve society, so created/modified/corrupted/integrated and in all cases just plainly made up religion to do just that. To stop people doing what comes naturally.

Now we are more civilised more intelligent, now we have the law. Now we dont need to be scared of the made up boogie man

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

And when people got bored of booze and sex, or pleasure in general, they wanted to soothe their egos by looking back on their lives and saying they accomplished something for the wider world.

Hold on. So, what you're saying is that people got bored of having too much fun, so they invented religion in order to accomplish something in the said religion?

You sure you got a PhD?

[haggydoggy]

How many men must a man beat up before he can f*ck Julia Roberts?

Really, you're going with Julia Roberts?

[haggydoggy]

No way... when did anyone ever get bored with booze

When I had a hard time aiming at the urinal but a little while later I am not bore with it.

[Andun]

Moses got his advise from a burning bush... 'nuf said.

[dorpus]

nice spin.
the reality is not that the people got bored with lawlessness booze and sex. the reality is the people who governed the people needed to stop them having fun to control the masses to better serve society, so created/modified/corrupted/integrated and in all cases just plainly made up religion to do just that. To stop people doing what comes naturally.
Now we are more civilised more intelligent, now we have the law. Now we dont need to be scared of the made up boogie man

Or could it be that secularist intellectuals, rulers from the Rennaissance period onward told people to turn away from religion, and become a slave to their pleasures under the illusion of freedom? It could be that your beliefs are in fact the result of mass brainwashing. Is the "law" more civilized or intelligent than religion? It was the secular courts of Europe that led witch hunts and inquisitions, while the Vatican typically opposed them.

[dorpus]

No way... when did anyone ever get bored with booze and sex - or pleasure in general? I suspect that you have the cart before the horse. More likely that people got tired of religion and turned to booze and sex.

Young people tend to think that way, but as they get older their definition of pleasure often changes. Some immature adults never change, but most people look for something deeper in the long run.

Religion serves no purpose other than to soothe the minds of those deprived of enought booze and sex - don't ya think?

Then why do religious people have more children? Why did Jesus turn water to wine?

[Andun]

dorpus???
That rings a bell. Wasn't there a troll a while back with a similar name doing a bunch of pot threads?
He's back with a new theme...must need attention.

[TJrandom]

Young people tend to think that way, but as they get older their definition of pleasure often changes. Some immature adults never change, but most people look for something deeper in the long run.

Yes indeed – some dolts stick to their sunny-school teachings – and rely on faith that a fairy tale is real, while they spread their intentional ignorance and promote hate. Others grow out of such silliness; see the world for what it is, and help mankind.

You seem to be drugged up and in an opiate-ed state, and no doubt enjoying your trolling.

And BTW – it is indeed a rare person who turns to religion later in life – having given up pleasure. Most zealots are indoctrinated early. Generally people turn away from the booze and sex that is religion and live a morally fulfilling life thereafter.

Finally - every wine maker has turned water into wine - simply plant the vine and water it... no big feat.

[thefg]

Or could it be that secularist intellectuals, rulers from the Rennaissance period onward told people to turn away from religion, and become a slave to their pleasures under the illusion of freedom?

yeah because there was no sex or anarchy before the Rennaissance. - Good grief!

It could be that your beliefs are in fact the result of mass brainwashing.

it could be - but it isnt. The definition of a scientific mind is an open one. The very definition of a religious mind is a closed one. A scientific mind would accept a mythical superbeing if enough evidence and logic supported its existance, a religious mind could not accept anything but the narror religious teachings.

Is the "law" more civilized or intelligent than religion?

Yes. Its not only more intelligent and civilised its also more encompassing and not so subject to the corruption of individuals/groups to suit their needs. You only have to read the various 'versions' of the bible to see this at work and you only have to read a bit to read some very un-civilised teachings.

It was the secular courts of Europe that led witch hunts and inquisitions, while the Vatican typically opposed them.

lesson in logic. quoting specific examples proves nothing without context and without comparison. we could quote forever the awful and uncivilised things done under the banner of religion

[thefg]

Why did Jesus turn water to wine?

he didnt.


thats impossible (without going through a fermentation process)

the story is just a myth.


You believe in a mythical power - your clearly a loony then. But your here trying to be taken seriously


people who believe in mythical space men and flying saucers are considered nuts, but some how people who believe in a mythical superbeing arent.....well lets put all BS pc correctness aside and call a spade a spade - your a loony

[Seattlegirl]

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
~Sir Arthur C. Clarke

"How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, ‘This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant?’ Instead they say, ‘No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.’ A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths."
- Carl Sagan

[dorpus]

Yes indeed – some dolts stick to their sunny-school teachings – and rely on faith that a fairy tale is real, while they spread their intentional ignorance and promote hate. Others grow out of such silliness; see the world for what it is, and help mankind.

Or, some dolts attain a deeper understanding of their "sunny-school" teachings, and witness its reality of love every day.

And BTW – it is indeed a rare person who turns to religion later in life – having given up pleasure. Most zealots are indoctrinated early. Generally people turn away from the booze and sex that is religion and live a morally fulfilling life thereafter.

You sure about that? The Pew Forum, a highly regarded survey group with a neutral stance, has discovered that "the unaffiliated have one of the lowest retention rates of any of the major religious groups, with most people who were raised unaffiliated now belonging to one religion or another."

http://www.pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux.aspx

[dorpus]

it could be - but it isnt. The definition of a scientific mind is an open one. The very definition of a religious mind is a closed one. A scientific mind would accept a mythical superbeing if enough evidence and logic supported its existance, a religious mind could not accept anything but the narror religious teachings.

Then why is science unable to account for 90% of the matter in the universe, and asks us to believe in fantastical "dark matter" and "extra dimensions", for which there is no experimental evidence? Why are scientists in open disagreement over whether birds or dinosaurs came first, according to their evolution mythology? If science were truly based on free inquiry, we would question all the sweeping assumptions, contrived reasoning, and fantastical conjectures leading to their "big bang theory", "evolution", "fossil dating", etc. without fear of ridicule. Do we see such an openness in schools? No, the scientific establishment would like to outlaw any public questioning of the theories. This is the same bunch that several years ago, was absolutely sure the Earth will turn into a frozen wasteland by 2000. Since their prophecy failed to come true, now they predict that the Earth will turn into a burning bush by 2100, unless we follow the environmentalist commandments.

Yes. Its not only more intelligent and civilised its also more encompassing and not so subject to the corruption of individuals/groups to suit their needs. You only have to read the various 'versions' of the bible to see this at work and you only have to read a bit to read some very un-civilised teachings.
lesson in logic. quoting specific examples proves nothing without context and without comparison. we could quote forever the awful and uncivilised things done under the banner of religion

Contrary to popular myth, the church had no problem with Galileo's theories. However, he had no experimental support for his theories, stole credit for other people's ideas, and refused to give credit when others came up with ideas. Today, such a scientist would be sent to jail for scientific misconduct. The church chose to place him under house arrest instead. So is the modern law of sending people to prison more civilized then?

[dorpus]

he didnt.
thats impossible (without going through a fermentation process)
the story is just a myth.

Suppose science continues its advancement to infinity, and masters time travel. Then humans of the future could travel back in time and intervene in the past, using future technologies. At that point, since humans would be playing God, is that equivalent to the existence of God?

Just because our current understanding of the world does not have an explanation does not make it false.

[TJrandom]

Or, some dolts attain a deeper understanding of their "sunny-school" teachings, and witness its reality of love every day.

You sure about that? The Pew Forum, a highly regarded survey group with a neutral stance, has discovered that "the unaffiliated have one of the lowest retention rates of any of the major religious groups, with most people who were raised unaffiliated now belonging to one religion or another." ...

I am glad that you agree they are dolts.

Love or hate?

PEW is hardly neutral - just look at the big spreads that come out around the xian holidays. Religion is simply their loss-leader to pull in other surveys.

edit: Did you even read that?

The group that has grown the most in recent years due to religious change is the unaffiliated population.

Gee – This is PEW calling (I have your phone number and name)... Which religion do you belong to? Now a rational person - not wanting to lose their job is suddenly going to be an xian in response. That is why there are so many atheists in pews, and even behind the podium on Sundays.

[TJrandom]

.... At that point, since humans would be playing God, is that equivalent to the existence of God?

Just because our current understanding of the world does not have an explanation does not make it false.

God time travels? Who knew?

Make what false? Our current understanding of the world does indeed have an explaination - since that is the meaning of understanding. No need to introduce fables to explain the world.

[kurogane]

what a load of nonsense.

clearly we got our PhDs from very different universities

Clearly neither you nor I went to Bob Jones University. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones_University

Did you know that it is scientifically possible to prove the ratio of angels' foot size to how many 2 steps they can dance on the head of a pin?

But at least we got a new pinhead out of it.

Smells like Post-completion Nervous Breakdown to me............