Here is the symptom for EVERY japanese problem...

[John Grey]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120802f3.html

If you read this careful enough you will understand that it is, as usual and not surprising, stupidity that causes one desaster after the other.
Greed and short term profit have diminished the eels, as they did with Tuna.
I did find an interesting article that points to this system and shows why in this country have a huge problem with learning.

"Between 1945 and 1952 Japan was occupied by a nominally "Allied", but in reality American, military force. One of the most important measures which the Occupation Headquarters pushed through was a sweeping land reform, which abolished the old divisions between landlords and tenants, and created instead a new class of landowning small farmers. These farmers then became a bastion of political conservatism, using their votes mainly to support the corrupt Liberal Democratic Party (Jiyû Minshut&#244, which continually formed the government during 38 long years from 1955 to 1993. In exchange for the farmers' votes, the Liberal Democratic Party kept the prices of agricultural produce high behind trade barriers which exluded rival products from abroad. In this way, the price of Japanese rice, for example, has been artificially maintained at a level at least six times higher than that found on the world market generally."

That is the way all of japanese economy functions and there is no reason for politicians to want to disturb this status quo. So sadly politics sticka to teach pupils in schools to recite and memorize, instead of thinking.
The education system europe tried to abandon half a century ago...

[kurogane]

On the bright side, if things continue on this shambolic path, Japanese cuisine could be eel free in a few years.

Hard to argue with that learning curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paradoxbox]

the silver lining is that the agricultural generation is going to be all dead in the next 10-15 years and so are the worst of the worst politicians.

next we just need another badly managed earthquake/nuclear disaster and the world will force the japanese government to shape up.

it WILL happen.

[John Grey]

the silver lining is that the agricultural generation is going to be all dead in the next 10-15 years and so are the worst of the worst politicians.

next we just need another badly managed earthquake/nuclear disaster and the world will force the japanese government to shape up.

it WILL happen.

One must be very young to actually stll believe the fairy tale, that any generation of politician can ever be better than their predecessors.... ;-)

[John Grey]

If Europe's education and political systems are so superior to the Japanese ones, then why O'Wise One is it that Europe is in shambles while Japan is still going strong even after it was hit with three huge disasters last year?

The problems in Europe, O'Blind One, are completely different.

Europe lives in a Post-democratic state, Japan in a Pre-democratic state...

Please excuse my not wasting my time with an attempt to educate you. The information about this is out there, however it would require will and capability to learn. Both it seems to me are sadly lacking in your case....

[kurogane]

Eurocentric Degenerate Bigotry (EDB) masquerading as analysis is fun, but that was asinine.


Unless you were kidding.................................

[Rakuda]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120802f3.html

If you read this careful enough you will understand that it is, as usual and not surprising, stupidity that causes one desaster after the other.
Greed and short term profit have diminished the eels, as they did with Tuna.
I did find an interesting article that points to this system and shows why in this country have a huge problem with learning.

"Between 1945 and 1952 Japan was occupied by a nominally "Allied", but in reality American, military force. One of the most important measures which the Occupation Headquarters pushed through was a sweeping land reform, which abolished the old divisions between landlords and tenants, and created instead a new class of landowning small farmers. These farmers then became a bastion of political conservatism, using their votes mainly to support the corrupt Liberal Democratic Party (Jiyû Minshut&#244, which continually formed the government during 38 long years from 1955 to 1993. In exchange for the farmers' votes, the Liberal Democratic Party kept the prices of agricultural produce high behind trade barriers which exluded rival products from abroad. In this way, the price of Japanese rice, for example, has been artificially maintained at a level at least six times higher than that found on the world market generally."

That is the way all of japanese economy functions and there is no reason for politicians to want to disturb this status quo. So sadly politics sticka to teach pupils in schools to recite and memorize, instead of thinking.
The education system europe tried to abandon half a century ago...

I cant believe people are complaining about this, high rice prices are good. Do Japanese people really need cheap rice from China? They are allready moving the car factories out of Japan. SO is it a good Idea to move the food out also?

[chiba]

I cant believe people are complaining about this, high rice prices are good. Do Japanese people really need cheap rice from China? They are allready moving the car factories out of Japan. SO is it a good Idea to move the food out also?

It's not just high rice prices though, this is just a poignant example. Protectionism is not the way of the future. Japan tries to protect it's electronics industries, but the world is moving on with iPhones and Facebook. Competition is good, it forces people to be creative.

[John Grey]

I cant believe people are complaining about this, high rice prices are good. Do Japanese people really need cheap rice from China? They are allready moving the car factories out of Japan. SO is it a good Idea to move the food out also?

No, you are right!

It is a lot better to to double the number of homeless people in the country every year and open up more soup kitchens..... how did I miss that one...

[John Grey]

It's not just high rice prices though, this is just a poignant example. Protectionism is not the way of the future. Japan tries to protect it's electronics industries, but the world is moving on with iPhones and Facebook. Competition is good, it forces people to be creative.

"Protectionism is not the way of the future. "

Would be nice if it were true, the bad news is, that everywhere things are going that way.
The difference in Japan is, that protectionism does not work in favor of the people, only, and this is the basic principle in Japan, it works in favor of corruption.
But then, Japan may have more money (well at least some people have), but it is not really any different from other 3.World countries. A handful of corrupt crooks become and remain rich, while the masses accept everything without any resistence and so deserve their lot...

[Rakuda]

It's not just high rice prices though, this is just a poignant example. Protectionism is not the way of the future. Japan tries to protect it's electronics industries, but the world is moving on with iPhones and Facebook. Competition is good, it forces people to be creative.

Japan does not try and protect is electronics industry,they are moving it to other countries just like Europe and The US have done. Same with Nissan and Toyota closing plants here and opening ones in other countries.

[Rakuda]

No, you are right!

It is a lot better to to double the number of homeless people in the country every year and open up more soup kitchens..... how did I miss that one...

You only double the amount of homeless in Japan by sending jobs overseas not by protecting them.

[Rakuda]

"Protectionism is not the way of the future. "

Would be nice if it were true, the bad news is, that everywhere things are going that way.
The difference in Japan is, that protectionism does not work in favor of the people, only, and this is the basic principle in Japan, it works in favor of corruption.
But then, Japan may have more money (well at least some people have), but it is not really any different from other 3.World countries. A handful of corrupt crooks become and remain rich, while the masses accept everything without any resistence and so deserve their lot...

If Japan did real protectionism it would help the people in Japan, tell your little story to the people who lost their jobs when Nissan closed a car plant and move the production from Japan to Thailand.

[YokohamaTommy]

Whinging about it or expecting Government to solve the issue is an exercise in futility.

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

[thefg]

Japan does not try and protect is electronics industry,they are moving it to other countries just like Europe and The US have done. Same with Nissan and Toyota closing plants here and opening ones in other countries.

yes, this is because they have to in order to remain competitive. Cars built and shipped from japan cost too much.

with tax incentives offered by other countries to set up mnf plants its easy to see why semicon mnf and, car mnf all move their plants around the world as each region develops and eventually becomes too expensive.

[thefg]

You only double the amount of homeless in Japan by sending jobs overseas not by protecting them.

but sending (lower level) jobs overseas can be a way to protect the profits of the japanese companies and so help protect the "higher value add" jobs that remain done in Japan.


Japan is an expensive developed country - its only natural that to be competitive jobs here have to become higher value add and mnf done in lower cost countries. This is the same process every dev country goes through. You cant stop this process.

Car manufacturing isnt the labour intesive job it was 30 years ago

Honda employ 170,000 people, yet only around 4000 in their uk mnf plants. This number is more than offset by their increased sales volumes by being 'local' mnfs (volume sale restrictions)

[Yukkuri Kame]

Whinging about it or expecting Government to solve the issue is an exercise in futility.

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

Someone please notify Government Motors. And the entire US banking sector.

[Effected After]

~And something we Americans were outstanding at, I might add.

Fixed that for you.

[beastcoast]

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

I like this guy.

[edin日本]

Whinging about it or expecting Government to solve the issue is an exercise in futility.

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

So, do you have a Makerbot? Can I borrow it?

[John Grey]

Japan does not try and protect is electronics industry,they are moving it to other countries just like Europe and The US have done. Same with Nissan and Toyota closing plants here and opening ones in other countries.

This has nothing to do with protectionism or not. This is the simple consequence of the exchange rates.
When I came to Japan I got 170 Yen for my Euro, now I would get 90 (if I were stupid enough, not to have changed everything into yen long ago).... Try and figure out what 77 Yen to the $$ will do to the revenue of export companies like Toyoto.

An obvious side effect of the downfall in the exchange rate is, that oil import costs have basically sunk by 50%.
However at the gas station it used to be 95 Yen and now? But then... this is Japan and in reality the japanese people, as much I love them, have always had the same slave mentality, when it comes to being bull******ed.

[John Grey]

If Japan did real protectionism it would help the people in Japan, tell your little story to the people who lost their jobs when Nissan closed a car plant and move the production from Japan to Thailand.

You seem to have a real problem with irony?

If Nissan does not move production and with it those jobs, the japanese workers will still loose their jobs, because the cars can no longer be sold, because of the exchange rate....
We were talking about rice prices, and not about export. You need to answer to what others write, not something you want to get off your chest for political reasons...

[John Grey]

Whinging about it or expecting Government to solve the issue is an exercise in futility.

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

Basic rules of american economic and foreign politics:
Any country makes problems, like idiotic Japanese making someone like Hatoyama Prime Minister, who actually wants to helps the japanese people of Okinawa, get sent the foreign secretary to convince those people here that are the real "Japan", of the unreasonableness of such politics.
Other countries, less good at scrambling to obedience, get a visit from the US army to bring them true freedom and democracy first, and then they take the cash... or the oil.

[edin日本]

Basic rules of american economic and foreign politics:
Any country makes problems, like idiotic Japanese making someone like Hatoyama Prime Minister, who actually wants to helps the japanese people of Okinawa, get sent the foreign secretary to convince those people here that are the real "Japan", of the unreasonableness of such politics.
Other countries, less good at scrambling to obedience, get a visit from the US army to bring them true freedom and democracy first, and then they take the cash... or the oil.

That's going to bite them in the a/ss very soon. The US has no money, they aren't investing in new technologies and the movers and shakers behind the throne are trying to keep the old economic models running for as long as they can.

I've noticed that a lot of indie musicians and movie makers are going to Kickstarter instead of the big studios/recording companies to promote their products and careers.

Traditional print publishers are going into the red, whereas POD and eBook publishers are making money hand over fist.

I've also found a good 3D printer scanner that has multiple printer heads, a 3D laser scanner and a laser cutter for around US$2,000. An item such as this can allow you to cheaply reverse engineer technology, prototype and produce goods much more intelligently and much cheaper than current methods. I'm hoping the price will go down on this model as the new improved version gets rolled out.

The status quo is about to become as extinct as a Tyrannosaurus rex and only those that evolve to fit the new paradigm will survive.

[thefg]

I've also found a good 3D printer scanner that has multiple printer heads, a 3D laser scanner and a laser cutter for around US$2,000. An item such as this can allow you to cheaply reverse engineer technology, prototype and produce goods much more intelligently and much cheaper than current methods. I'm hoping the price will go down on this model as the new improved version gets rolled out.

Im curious...what 'technology' do you think you can you reverse engineer with a 3d printer??

You can only make copies of mechanical designs (not technology) and you can rapid prototype simple circuitry (not technology)

These things have been around for decades (I must have 1st used one 20+ years ago, and have a rather nice one in my lab now,... but its seldom necessary or particularly advantageous to use) and are only of use in prototyping mechanical components......often not that fast... These days the value add is all in electronics and software and for that rapid prototyping such as 3D printers are of little/no use


Maybe you mispoke when you said 'technology'

Take the iphone...if I gave you one and you wanted to reverse engineer - how will a 3d printer help? sure you could make a plastic copy of the case....big woopie, you give that same case to a pattern shop and they can make you a mould in a few hrs, and theres zero value-add in a case. Its just a case. The value is all in the electronics the software which take 10,000s of hours to develop, and for that a 3d printer would be of no use.

[chiba]

Isn't it the truth that all they were really good at was manufacturing things designed in the west. without a big population of hard working low cost labour they can't compete.

Most people probably think the Japanese invented games consoles, hifi, microwaves,... but it's all American and European in origin.

There's no money in reverse engineering iphone's. Japan could never produce something like Apple or the app store. Sony will be the next to fall.

[thefg]

Isn't it the truth that all they were really good at was manufacturing things designed in the west.

no it isnt the truth. Its a commonly held misconception. For eg. Japanese design better cars than GM could or have ever designed. Better than any other countries car mnf.
Same with white goods.

without a big population of hard working low cost labour they can't compete.

not true, the GDP just has to come from higher value add industries. Same issue faced by many dev. countries. they will/have to shift focus - which is why more and more mnf is being done overseas

Most people probably think the Japanese invented games consoles, hifi, microwaves,... but it's all American and European in origin.

There's no money in reverse engineering iphone's. Japan could never produce something like Apple or the app store. Sony will be the next to fall.

they could. they have the skills and people. hell i bet 99% electrical goods in the average westerner home comes from japan. come on.

And consider that Japan is a world leader in semicon equipment manufacturing - what that means in layman terms is we sell the machines to china that make the components that go into the american designed Iphone

[chiba]

I'd rather have a BMW over a Japanese car.

And iPhone chip appears to be made by Samsung.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A5

[Rakuda]

yes, this is because they have to in order to remain competitive. Cars built and shipped from japan cost too much.

with tax incentives offered by other countries to set up mnf plants its easy to see why semicon mnf and, car mnf all move their plants around the world as each region develops and eventually becomes too expensive.

The cars that are being made in Thailand are being sold to JAPAN.

[Rakuda]

This has nothing to do with protectionism or not. This is the simple consequence of the exchange rates.
When I came to Japan I got 170 Yen for my Euro, now I would get 90 (if I were stupid enough, not to have changed everything into yen long ago).... Try and figure out what 77 Yen to the $$ will do to the revenue of export companies like Toyoto.

An obvious side effect of the downfall in the exchange rate is, that oil import costs have basically sunk by 50%.
However at the gas station it used to be 95 Yen and now? But then... this is Japan and in reality the japanese people, as much I love them, have always had the same slave mentality, when it comes to being bull******ed.

These cars are being made in Thailand are being sold to JAPAN,so Yen exchange rate has nothing to do with it.

[Jakebullet]

Whinging about it or expecting Government to solve the issue is an exercise in futility.

You adapt to the changing and emerging markets, or you perish.
Simple as that.

~And something we Americans are outstanding at, I might add.

*except Michigan.

[Rakuda]

You seem to have a real problem with irony?

If Nissan does not move production and with it those jobs, the japanese workers will still loose their jobs, because the cars can no longer be sold, because of the exchange rate....
We were talking about rice prices, and not about export. You need to answer to what others write, not something you want to get off your chest for political reasons...

The cars are being sold to JAPAN,its not about exporting. It is exactly the same as RICE so it is the same subject. Maybe you didnt understand that the cars are being made in Thailand for the Japanese market,not to be exported overseas but for the Japanese market.
Maybe you now see how strange it all is,and why it is much like the whole rice issue.
I could see how you could have got confused. Of course if I was making cars I would make them in the country that they are marketed for,which is what they do now with Europe and The US. BUt what they have started to do now is move the jobs overseas and trying to sell them back here at Japan. So do you see that putting people out of work then trying to sell a new car just doesnt make much since.
Your way of thinking seems to be that all of the people that grow rice should stop in Japan and then all the manufacturing jobs should move overseas. So what is left for people in Japan to make money off of?
You do have to protect your people from downfall,not protect companies from downfall. SO there has to be a balance somewhere,if the rice growers are protecting themselves it actually better for Japan on the whole. The only lucky thing is Japanese rice growers havent figured out that they can buy land much cheaper in different countries and use their sway with get the import tax on rice lowered.It seems to me the Japanese rice are doing more to protect Japan than protecting themselves.

[Rakuda]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120802f3.html

If you read this careful enough you will understand that it is, as usual and not surprising, stupidity that causes one desaster after the other.
Greed and short term profit have diminished the eels, as they did with Tuna.
I did find an interesting article that points to this system and shows why in this country have a huge problem with learning.

"Between 1945 and 1952 Japan was occupied by a nominally "Allied", but in reality American, military force. One of the most important measures which the Occupation Headquarters pushed through was a sweeping land reform, which abolished the old divisions between landlords and tenants, and created instead a new class of landowning small farmers. These farmers then became a bastion of political conservatism, using their votes mainly to support the corrupt Liberal Democratic Party (Jiyû Minshut&#244, which continually formed the government during 38 long years from 1955 to 1993. In exchange for the farmers' votes, the Liberal Democratic Party kept the prices of agricultural produce high behind trade barriers which exluded rival products from abroad. In this way, the price of Japanese rice, for example, has been artificially maintained at a level at least six times higher than that found on the world market generally."

That is the way all of japanese economy functions and there is no reason for politicians to want to disturb this status quo. So sadly politics sticka to teach pupils in schools to recite and memorize, instead of thinking.
The education system europe tried to abandon half a century ago...

I really dont see your point at all, the article shows that buying from overseas lowers the price of the eels for the customer.OK But its now so low that nobody wants to farm eels in Japan,so most of it comes from China`s eel farms? But now even China doesnt want to get out of bed to farm eels? So maybe eels will go back to being an expensive item that isnt sold on so many supermarket shelves. And maybe now Japanese people will farm eels and can make money again from something that they havent been able to make money off of in years?
Everybody makes choices,so what if eel is a little expensive,eat something else and buy it every once in a while. I dont eat steak everyday,I dont have to eat rice everyday and I dont have to spend money on a new iphone everyday.
If eel was expensive again then there could be reastruants just for eel again,those restruants would be making money for Japanese people again not just Itoyokado.
You just must hate Japan or something. Why else would you want people outside of Japan to make all the money.

[Jakebullet]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120802f3.html

If you read this careful enough you will understand that it is, as usual and not surprising, stupidity that causes one desaster after the other.
Greed and short term profit have diminished the eels, as they did with Tuna.
I did find an interesting article that points to this system and shows why in this country have a huge problem with learning.

"Between 1945 and 1952 Japan was occupied by a nominally "Allied", but in reality American, military force. One of the most important measures which the Occupation Headquarters pushed through was a sweeping land reform, which abolished the old divisions between landlords and tenants, and created instead a new class of landowning small farmers. These farmers then became a bastion of political conservatism, using their votes mainly to support the corrupt Liberal Democratic Party (Jiyû Minshut&#244, which continually formed the government during 38 long years from 1955 to 1993. In exchange for the farmers' votes, the Liberal Democratic Party kept the prices of agricultural produce high behind trade barriers which exluded rival products from abroad. In this way, the price of Japanese rice, for example, has been artificially maintained at a level at least six times higher than that found on the world market generally."

That is the way all of japanese economy functions and there is no reason for politicians to want to disturb this status quo. So sadly politics sticka to teach pupils in schools to recite and memorize, instead of thinking.
The education system europe tried to abandon half a century ago...

Well, I didn't want to wade into this debate originally because the posts were to long. ....but I actually read the article and found that your comment is generally unsound. It's a trend found everywhere in the developed world (and being felt amongst the BRIC* countries) just look at Shark Fin soup in China now and reckon what the future holds for that.

I don't think any of the economic arguments in this thread are completely sound, just opinions, but I worry that you justify your opinion and off tangent political grudges with a sole Japan times Article. I doubt you have an axe to grind with Japan but seem disillusioned with Japanese politics. You are not alone there.

What you miss with the fish or cars examples, is the basic supply and demand economics of a developed nation , and with your breach into the exchange rates justification have completely missed The point of the need for a diversifying industrial strategy for the future.

I guess there are to many factors on the table and trying to join the dots with all and present the conclusion you do is disingenuous.

*it may be BRICS now I am unreliable informed and even more reluctant to admit.

[Rakuda]

That's going to bite them in the a/ss very soon. The US has no money, they aren't investing in new technologies and the movers and shakers behind the throne are trying to keep the old economic models running for as long as they can.

I've noticed that a lot of indie musicians and movie makers are going to Kickstarter instead of the big studios/recording companies to promote their products and careers.

Traditional print publishers are going into the red, whereas POD and eBook publishers are making money hand over fist.

I've also found a good 3D printer scanner that has multiple printer heads, a 3D laser scanner and a laser cutter for around US$2,000. An item such as this can allow you to cheaply reverse engineer technology, prototype and produce goods much more intelligently and much cheaper than current methods. I'm hoping the price will go down on this model as the new improved version gets rolled out.

The status quo is about to become as extinct as a Tyrannosaurus rex and only those that evolve to fit the new paradigm will survive.

3d printers are cool,but they cant make items strong like injection molding does. Injection molding still have many advantages over 3D printing. Im sure you can print things for you home use. But try to print a comb for example and see if you can print it for under a $1. 3D printers are good now for prototyping and most companies use them before they go to injection molding.For production is needs to be faster and cheaper. Production is where the money is not prototyping. But I would love to have one here on my desk,I do a lot of prototyping for myself.

Kickstarter is an interesting system and it works for somethings,but even after people make a new record with funds from Kickstarter can they make money off of what they produced? That will really have an effect,even if you can make music if nobody buys it then the musician has to get a job. SO I guess they will have to go back to Kickstarter to ask for money to promote the movie or music. Music is cheap to make,but getting people to buy it is a different story. Movies are expensive to make and need lots of people to pay to go see it.
I would be interested to know of a movie made with Kickstarter money. I know even now Hollywood people are getting involved with Kickstarter as they dont have to report to anybody about the movies they are making and the money is not accounted for. With a studio there are many people to keep happy,with kickstarter there are just faceless people to get free money from,so its not just indie people using kickstarter anymore.
I even tried kickstarter and got rejected,not a big deal I just used my own money.

ebooks are interesting,i dont buy them but my friends do,I could see traditional print going to a higher level with only those that really want hard cover books paying more for them. Even now people still pay more money for record albums than for the same thing down loaded or on a CD.
So books might go that way where there are a few people that pay more for something that is outdated to the normal person.

[edin日本]

Im curious...what 'technology' do you think you can you reverse engineer with a 3d printer??

You can only make copies of mechanical designs (not technology) and you can rapid prototype simple circuitry (not technology)

These things have been around for decades (I must have 1st used one 20+ years ago, and have a rather nice one in my lab now,... but its seldom necessary or particularly advantageous to use) and are only of use in prototyping mechanical components......often not that fast... These days the value add is all in electronics and software and for that rapid prototyping such as 3D printers are of little/no use


Maybe you mispoke when you said 'technology'

Take the iphone...if I gave you one and you wanted to reverse engineer - how will a 3d printer help? sure you could make a plastic copy of the case....big woopie, you give that same case to a pattern shop and they can make you a mould in a few hrs, and theres zero value-add in a case. Its just a case. The value is all in the electronics the software which take 10,000s of hours to develop, and for that a 3d printer would be of no use.

Let's see... Reverse engineer an iPhone using the 3D printer with scanning function, multiple heads and laser cutter function that I want to purchase

1) Dismantle it
2) Using the 3D scanner scan all the mechanical parts, the case and circuitry
3) Search the net for parts list of the iPhone to be copied
4) Order parts that can't be reproduced
5) Print all non metallic parts using 3D printer, ABS plastic, laser cutter head and metallic inks to create circuit boards
6) Using laser cutter cut all metallic parts that can be replicated
7) Layout parts, assemble and test
8) Download software and install
9) Use your IPhone clone

The 3D printer you used 20 odd years ago could do only one or two things. By comparison the 3D printers of today are like the modern day PC whereas your model is akin to an old IBM mainframe.

Oh and I don't believe you have one of these machines because a few months back I was searching for someone who had one to do some prototyping work and you were as quiet as a churchmouse being sized up as a potential snack by the vicar's cat. If you actually had the machine you would have responded by sending me your rates and printer's specs.

[edin日本]

3d printers are cool,but they cant make items strong like injection molding does. Injection molding still have many advantages over 3D printing. Im sure you can print things for you home use. But try to print a comb for example and see if you can print it for under a $1. 3D printers are good now for prototyping and most companies use them before they go to injection molding.For production is needs to be faster and cheaper. Production is where the money is not prototyping. But I would love to have one here on my desk,I do a lot of prototyping for myself.

As I mentioned the one I'm looking at has other functions that go beyond just laying down some coloured plastic. I have to agree that a3D printer makes prototyping and designing items easier.

Kickstarter is an interesting system and it works for somethings,but even after people make a new record with funds from Kickstarter can they make money off of what they produced? That will really have an effect,even if you can make music if nobody buys it then the musician has to get a job. SO I guess they will have to go back to Kickstarter to ask for money to promote the movie or music. Music is cheap to make,but getting people to buy it is a different story. Movies are expensive to make and need lots of people to pay to go see it.
I would be interested to know of a movie made with Kickstarter money. I know even now Hollywood people are getting involved with Kickstarter as they dont have to report to anybody about the movies they are making and the money is not accounted for. With a studio there are many people to keep happy,with kickstarter there are just faceless people to get free money from,so its not just indie people using kickstarter anymore.
I even tried kickstarter and got rejected,not a big deal I just used my own money.

Here's one that I know about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtHgj8Z-F_Y

ebooks are interesting,i dont buy them but my friends do,I could see traditional print going to a higher level with only those that really want hard cover books paying more for them. Even now people still pay more money for record albums than for the same thing down loaded or on a CD.
So books might go that way where there are a few people that pay more for something that is outdated to the normal person.

What interests me about ebooks is that it substantially reduces the cost of producing a publication such as a magazine or newspaper. Books that are used and reused such as reference manuals, books covering research or those where the the quality of paper etc is of importance are still going to be printed.

[John Grey]

Well, I didn't want to wade into this debate originally because the posts were to long. ....but I actually read the article and found that your comment is generally unsound. It's a trend found everywhere in the developed world (and being felt amongst the BRIC* countries) just look at Shark Fin soup in China now and reckon what the future holds for that.

I don't think any of the economic arguments in this thread are completely sound, just opinions, but I worry that you justify your opinion and off tangent political grudges with a sole Japan times Article. I doubt you have an axe to grind with Japan but seem disillusioned with Japanese politics. You are not alone there.

What you miss with the fish or cars examples, is the basic supply and demand economics of a developed nation , and with your breach into the exchange rates justification have completely missed The point of the need for a diversifying industrial strategy for the future.

I guess there are to many factors on the table and trying to join the dots with all and present the conclusion you do is disingenuous.

*it may be BRICS now I am unreliable informed and even more reluctant to admit.

"..with your breach into the exchange rates justification have completely missed The point of the need for a diversifying industrial strategy for the future."

No, I did not miss it, but I did not want to give a complete economics lecture. Now I do, and excuse if trying to keep is short, make sit complicated.

Let’s start with some basics….
The theory behind our kind of economics is, that every country produces what it does best, and sells it to the rest of the world. That way (in theory) a worldwide economic balance is achieved and everybody profits. It works as long as everybody stays within certain limits and as long as the world economy sustains a certain growth (which is a different story).
Since the appearance of economic neo-liberalism everything has changed. Maximization of profit, no, of short term profit, is all that counts. That disturbs what little balance exists worldwide and the whole system begins to crumble.
As an example, the Euro has problems, because the balance was lost. Germany became export world champion because its wages remained way below the other European countries instead of being increased. That way its products were manufactured cheaper than anywhere else. Manufacturing companies flourished, but jobless rates went up.
Accumulating over the last years, other countries, Greece, Spain, Italy and a few more incurred a huge trade deficit, because they imported a lot more, than they produced for export. They had to take up more and more credit, which was given by the international banks. Then there came the point of no return, and Greece was the first one there, when it all became obvious, that they were so deep in debt, that they could no longer borrow new money to pay the old debt. To re-finance an old debt, you have to take up new credit, at a higher cost though. The banks were very much aware of this when they began to give those credits, but they convinced the governments that they are “too big to fail” and the taxpayer had to guarantee the rotten credits. That is what is meant, when the Krugmans of the world say that the financial world now dictates politics to the governments. And that is what we have in Europe and the US.
Now, the debtor countries have to save and save, at the order of Germany who otherwise will have to pay most the upcoming defaulting bills, but saving and saving will of course not accelerate growth in an economy, it will drag it down even more. That is Europe for you at the moment, on its way to a crash…..

Back to Japan. Japan has had enormous trade surplusses for decades, but it held on to the money, financed debt with it or bought van Goghs, instead of putting it back into the world economy, and consuming other country's products in return for exporting cars and electronic goods. For example by freely allowing food imports to give the japanese people its share of the economic succes of Japan Inc.
Not just rice, I used that as an example, as it is the staple food in Japan. This morning I was shopping for apples, and there is not a single apple to be had in Tókyo below 200 Yen, that is two Euro. For 2 Euro in Europe you can buy at least a whole kilo of apples, because they do not make a living off protectionism as they do in Japan. There apples grown all over the world and somewhere at any time of the year, and they can be imported at reasonable prices But protectionism does not allow for the well being of the people, it only allows for profits for a corrupt minority.
Because of Japan’s politics of protectionism, and its resulting permanent trade surpluses, the value of the Yen has now increased to an absólutely desasterous level. The present exchange rate means exported Toyota cars produced in Japan, would fetch less Yen, than they cost to make here, THAT is why they are produced in Thailand and several other countries.
But, moving the production to Thailand is of course again counter productive, as people who loose their jobs building Toyota cars in Japan, will no longer earn the money which they can then spend in Japan to keep the economy moving here, or buying any of the re-imported Toyotas. Which in turn… aso. aso. aso. This is Toyota’s way of maximizing short term profits, which will come back to haunt them.

It is the same as in Greece. The country needs huge investments to push start growth in their economy, so they can earn the money needed to pay back their debts. Instead politics forces them to save and cut, which in future will enable them even less to repay their debt. We all will be able watch the collapse of the Euro in certain regions over there in the near future and the costs for everyone that will bring….

As all of this could be seen coming many years ago, and many people saw it, I also was one of those who changed their money into Yen, (and I even had another reason to move to Japan). When I first came here, I got almost 170, now I would get 90, so I already almost doubled the amount of Euro I had then, with no risk or work involved… And I know when I will have to change them back, before the bottom falls out of Japan’s economy. As everybody already mentioned, the Japanese have no products to sell, other the Prius. Their electronics industry has already left for Korea, China and Taiwan. It’s Lenovo and Acer now, instead of Sony and Toshiba, as you can read in today’s news. Once the Japanese have used up their credit, their 200% debt to GNP rate will catch up with them, unless a miracle happens.

And finally, back to the rice. It was the sum of all these stupid greedy little protectionist's tricks that in the end, which is almost now, add up to trade imbalances that are no longer controllable, and now will have the obvious consequences… expensive consequences.

[Rakuda]

"..with your breach into the exchange rates justification have completely missed The point of the need for a diversifying industrial strategy for the future."

No, I did not miss it, but I did not want to give a complete economics lecture. Now I do, and excuse if trying to keep is short, make sit complicated.

Let’s start with some basics….
The theory behind our kind of economics is, that every country produces what it does best, and sells it to the rest of the world. That way (in theory) a worldwide economic balance is achieved and everybody profits. It works as long as everybody stays within certain limits and as long as the world economy sustains a certain growth (which is a different story).
Since the appearance of economic neo-liberalism everything has changed. Maximization of profit, no, of short term profit, is all that counts. That disturbs what little balance exists worldwide and the whole system begins to crumble.
As an example, the Euro has problems, because the balance was lost. Germany became export world champion because its wages remained way below the other European countries instead of being increased. That way its products were manufactured cheaper than anywhere else. Manufacturing companies flourished, but jobless rates went up.
Accumulating over the last years, other countries, Greece, Spain, Italy and a few more incurred a huge trade deficit, because they imported a lot more, than they produced for export. They had to take up more and more credit, which was given by the international banks. Then there came the point of no return, and Greece was the first one there, when it all became obvious, that they were so deep in debt, that they could no longer borrow new money to pay the old debt. To re-finance an old debt, you have to take up new credit, at a higher cost though. The banks were very much aware of this when they began to give those credits, but they convinced the governments that they are “too big to fail” and the taxpayer had to guarantee the rotten credits. That is what is meant, when the Krugmans of the world say that the financial world now dictates politics to the governments. And that is what we have in Europe and the US.
Now, the debtor countries have to save and save, at the order of Germany who otherwise will have to pay most the upcoming defaulting bills, but saving and saving will of course not accelerate growth in an economy, it will drag it down even more. That is Europe for you at the moment, on its way to a crash…..

Back to Japan. Japan has had enormous trade surplusses for decades, but it held on to the money, financed debt with it or bought van Goghs, instead of putting it back into the world economy, and consuming other country's products in return for exporting cars and electronic goods. For example by freely allowing food imports to give the japanese people its share of the economic succes of Japan Inc.
Not just rice, I used that as an example, as it is the staple food in Japan. This morning I was shopping for apples, and there is not a single apple to be had in Tókyo below 200 Yen, that is two Euro. For 2 Euro in Europe you can buy at least a whole kilo of apples, because they do not make a living off protectionism as they do in Japan. There apples grown all over the world and somewhere at any time of the year, and they can be imported at reasonable prices But protectionism does not allow for the well being of the people, it only allows for profits for a corrupt minority.
Because of Japan’s politics of protectionism, and its resulting permanent trade surpluses, the value of the Yen has now increased to an absólutely desasterous level. The present exchange rate means exported Toyota cars produced in Japan, would fetch less Yen, than they cost to make here, THAT is why they are produced in Thailand and several other countries.
But, moving the production to Thailand is of course again counter productive, as people who loose their jobs building Toyota cars in Japan, will no longer earn the money which they can then spend in Japan to keep the economy moving here, or buying any of the re-imported Toyotas. Which in turn… aso. aso. aso. This is Toyota’s way of maximizing short term profits, which will come back to haunt them.

It is the same as in Greece. The country needs huge investments to push start growth in their economy, so they can earn the money needed to pay back their debts. Instead politics forces them to save and cut, which in future will enable them even less to repay their debt. We all will be able watch the collapse of the Euro in certain regions over there in the near future and the costs for everyone that will bring….

As all of this could be seen coming many years ago, and many people saw it, I also was one of those who changed their money into Yen, (and I even had another reason to move to Japan). When I first came here, I got almost 170, now I would get 90, so I already almost doubled the amount of Euro I had then, with no risk or work involved… And I know when I will have to change them back, before the bottom falls out of Japan’s economy. As everybody already mentioned, the Japanese have no products to sell, other the Prius. Their electronics industry has already left for Korea, China and Taiwan. It’s Lenovo and Acer now, instead of Sony and Toshiba, as you can read in today’s news. Once the Japanese have used up their credit, their 200% debt to GNP rate will catch up with them, unless a miracle happens.

And finally, back to the rice. It was the sum of all these stupid greedy little protectionist's tricks that in the end, which is almost now, add up to trade imbalances that are no longer controllable, and now will have the obvious consequences… expensive consequences.

So what country do you think has it all figured out?

[John Grey]

So what country do you think has it all figured out?

Countries do not have an interest in figuring something out, they have an interest in coming out ahead of the competition, ahead of other countries. Thats what Germayn treid to do in Europe and now reality has caught up wih them , and it is going to be a very expensive reality for the geramn taxpayer, who will have to bail out, as one can read, 27% of it all. That will be around one year of german GNP.
The really bad news is, that reality by now is getting always closer to offer only a single method to some of the countries, and it has happens to be protectionism. And once more and more countries get on that train, because no other option is available aynmore, then it will go downhill from there.
Just watch it... China, the one country that at present is the worldeconomy's life support system, will lower its exchange rate in the next few days and get closer to the rest of the world, slowly, slowly its getting down, down, down....