Should I move to Japan?

[MrScott1337]

Hey all,

First time poster here, sorry if this is somehow in the wrong section of the forum!

I live in Wales in the UK and I've always been fascinated with Japan and it's culture and I'm planning a two week holiday to Tokyo for July next year.

I've been wondering about what it's like to live in Japan. I've been searching online for people's views but responses vary greatly. Some people say that Japan is a great place to live while others say it's only good for a holiday. Some people say it's expensive and others say it's affordable. Some people say Japanese society is discriminatory and racist while others claim to have never experienced any bother at all.

People's experiences of living in Japan seem to vary widely based upon a number of factors such as your particular nationality i.e. Americans seem to have more problems with racism/discrimination than British and other westerners and also where you move to in Japan i.e. Some areas of Japan seem to be more tolerant of foreigners and more affordable to live in than other areas.

But I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth and ask what should I expect if I decided to take up life in Japan? What are my job/career expectations (I'm studying for a BSc Computer Forensics degree), what is there to do for fun in Japan (I'm very open-minded so I'm up for anything the locals consider to be fun) and how easy is it to befriend locals? Will I experience discrimination and if so, will it be much of an obstacle to life in Japan? What areas of Japan would you recommend living in to a prospective ex-pat such as myself?

If I ever took up life in Japan, I would try my hardest to integrate with their society i.e. observing etiquette and customs, learning the language, experiencing the culture, etc. I don't plan on expecting Japan to cater towards my home culture and lifestyle, I'm more than happy to adapt to how things are in Japan.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Scott

[MrScott1337]

30 Views yet no replies?

Surely someone has some experience of living in Japan?

[***]

Not bad, but I think it's got a little too much pisss and vinegar in it - especially towards the end. But keep working on it. I'm sure you'll snag a few.

[Koenji]

Fun? Several of my British friends love the ski and snowboard possibilities. Nightlife-dining is great in the big cities.

However, the economy and society in general are on a long-term decline. If you work for a J. company, even if it's in IT, expect low pay for long hours and short vacations. Oh, and J companies don't lay off workers: instead they cut everyone's meager wages even more. This arrangement is creating a lot of disillusioned people to toil away in stoic resignation. It's kind of depressing.

You'll struggle just to afford to pay rent for a tiny room with no central heating. However, you don't need a car in the cities, thanks to extensive public transport.

[MrScott1337]

Not bad, but I think it's got a little too much pisss and vinegar in it - especially towards the end. But keep working on it. I'm sure you'll snag a few.

What are you even saying? Are you posting in the right topic?

Fun? Several of my British friends love the ski and snowboard possibilities. Nightlife-dining is great in the big cities.

However, the economy and society in general are on a long-term decline. If you work for a J. company, even if it's in IT, expect low pay for long hours and short vacations. Oh, and J companies don't lay off workers: instead they cut everyone's meager wages even more. This arrangement is creating a lot of disillusioned people to toil away in stoic resignation. It's kind of depressing.

You'll struggle just to afford to pay rent for a tiny room with no central heating. However, you don't need a car in the cities, thanks to extensive public transport.

So would you recommend not living in Japan? I always heard the economy was pretty strong, especially compared to Europe what with it's constant woes of apathy, self-interest and mismanagement.

I just don't get it. Japan bullsh*ts foreigners with propaganda to make Japan look amazing but then you get there and as soon as you stop being a tourist nobody wants you there? Employers make it hard to find work, society makes it hard to integrate, government makes it hard to get anything done and businesses make it hard to buy anything you need on a day-to-day basis. It's like the Japanese think they're God's gift from the moon or something equally pretentious.

Maybe I should reconsider my trip to Tokyo and go somewhere in Asia where logic exists?

[HarryHurry]

30 Views yet no replies?

Surely someone has some experience of living in Japan?

Some of us do, the rest have some experience of summer vacation trolls.

Good effort, but all been done before....

[MrScott1337]

Some of us do, the rest have some experience of summer vacation trolls.

Good effort, but all been done before....

Oh great, yet another person who has learnt the meaning of the word "troll" and has decided to use it against anyone who expresses negative views on the internet.

If I was going to troll, I'd pick a much easier target such as 4chan or another website inhabited by fat, teenage, emotionally insecure basement dwellers.

I was under the impression this was a serious site for people looking for information on living and working in Japan but, from what I've seen, it turns out its mostly just a circlejerk of about a dozen people who are just itching to make sarcastic comments and win internet arguments.

[KansaiBen]

But I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth and ask what should I expect if I decided to take up life in Japan? What are my job/career expectations (I'm studying for a BSc Computer Forensics degree), what is there to do for fun in Japan (I'm very open-minded so I'm up for anything the locals consider to be fun) and how easy is it to befriend locals? Will I experience discrimination and if so, will it be much of an obstacle to life in Japan? What areas of Japan would you recommend living in to a prospective ex-pat such as myself?

First let me say your questions are excessively broad and general that no one answer will be satisfactory. Everyone has their own reasons for being here, their own motivation. ESID. You get out of it what you put into it.

Your expectations are what YOU expect, not what is actually delivered. IF your expectations are too high then you are likely to be disappointed as not meeting your standards. You will think Japan is overrated. Best to keep expectations low and you wont be disappointed.

There are 120 million people in Japan and there are as many things to do as there are people. What do you like to do? There is probably a club or a group for it here. There is even a large group here that likes country music and bluegrass. there are rock concerts and festivals that draw international acts.


You can make friends but if you dont speak the language you will have problems. Your main contacts will be other speakers of English and bilingual Japanese. Also the idea of friendship here is different, kind of hard to explain but people will feel close to you according to a type of social distance. People who you may think are your friends may regard you as a mere acquaintance, they will put you in a box according to their own criteria e.g near stranger, acquaintance, drinking buddy, work colleague, golf partner. The idea of friendship depends on the chemistry between people. Its not just because you went to the same school or you work together. I work at my school 8 years, see the same people every day but many i dont consider friends, even acquaintances.

My guess is you want to make friends so you don't become lonely or feel isolated. Best idea is get involved, do things and you will meet people and they will be drawn to you. Don't go out seeking people to be your next best friend because its not going to happen any time soon.




Discrimination does exist, its not in your face but it will appear from time to time. Im sure there is discrimination against different minorities in your country. After all, we are a minority here. Main problem is in renting apartments as some dont rent to foreigners.
Mostly its a positive discrimination for westerners and caucasians.

If I ever took up life in Japan, I would try my hardest to integrate with their society i.e. observing etiquette and customs, learning the language, experiencing the culture, etc. I don't plan on expecting Japan to cater towards my home culture and lifestyle, I'm more than happy to adapt to how things are in Japan.

You wont integrate, you will assimilate. Try as you may you will never become Japanese but its best to "do as the Romans do" and it will be appreciated. Try and become too Japanese and people will think you are eccentric or weird. Just be yourself as thats all they expect here.

[KansaiBen]

So would you recommend not living in Japan? I always heard the economy was pretty strong, especially compared to Europe what with it's constant woes of apathy, self-interest and mismanagement.

The economy is a basketcase with debt levels twice that of Greece and Italy. People are largely just scraping by and there is a lot of pessimism. Unlike the Europeans the Japanese are a stoic bunch and are not prone to whining. The government here is largely asleep at the wheel re the tsunami, running the country, and judged by most Japanese people to be incompetent. Do not expect much from the government here and you wont be disappointed.

I just don't get it. Japan bullsh*ts foreigners with propaganda to make Japan look amazing but then you get there and as soon as you stop being a tourist nobody wants you there?

Foreigners are welcome, they like tourists etc but the longer you stay here, learn the language and become a fixture in the country you become tolerated, merely liked. Its not that no one wants you but they expect you will go back home someday. Japan is amazing, you just have to stop believing all the propaganda you have filled your head with.

Employers make it hard to find work, society makes it hard to integrate, government makes it hard to get anything done and businesses make it hard to buy anything you need on a day-to-day basis. It's like the Japanese think they're God's gift from the moon or something equally pretentious.

BS. No one owes you anything. The onus is on you to fit in, not on a whole country to make you feel welcome and fit in around you. Migrating to another country requires you learn the language, fit in with customs and ways of doing things. Stop acting like such a frigging victim.

[BackDoor_Man]

KansaiBen has given you the best answer possible, but there will be other who will disagree with him, just to disagree. Now break down your questions to a specific point and you will get more answers. Me I love it here. 36 years and am gonna stay here till I die!

[Effected After]

Most of us on this site live in Japan. First, before we tell you about how life is in Japan, you tell us how live is in Wales. After all, it shouldn't be hard to boil your whole lifestyle, culture, and everything around you into a few sentences right?

[Effected After]

I was under the impression this was a serious site for people looking for information on living and working in Japan but, from what I've seen, it turns out its mostly just a circlejerk of about a dozen people who are just itching to make sarcastic comments and win internet arguments.

Yeah, the way the company markets the site, and the actions of the members of the forum are not in sync.

[wernst]

Yeah, the way the company markets the site, and the actions of the members of the forum are not in sync.

quote of the year.

[MrScott1337]

The economy is a basketcase with debt levels twice that of Greece and Italy. People are largely just scraping by and there is a lot of pessimism. Unlike the Europeans the Japanese are a stoic bunch and are not prone to whining. The government here is largely asleep at the wheel re the tsunami, running the country, and judged by most Japanese people to be incompetent. Do not expect much from the government here and you wont be disappointed.





Foreigners are welcome, they like tourists etc but the longer you stay here, learn the language and become a fixture in the country you become tolerated, merely liked. Its not that no one wants you but they expect you will go back home someday. Japan is amazing, you just have to stop believing all the propaganda you have filled your head with.




BS. No one owes you anything. The onus is on you to fit in, not on a whole country to make you feel welcome and fit in around you. Migrating to another country requires you learn the language, fit in with customs and ways of doing things. Stop acting like such a frigging victim.

So let me get this straight. Japan expects people to put all this work into learning their language, observing their customs and culture, saving up loads of money, getting a visa with a sponsorship, finding a job and paying out of their arse for accommodation to get exactly what in return?

Crappy flats? People who wont ever get close to you? A government that wont do anything? Sky high living costs? Discrimination? You talk of this as if its totally acceptable.

I never expected Japan to cater to my culture or lifestyle but Im not going to put all that hard work in to trying to live in Japan just so I can become a robotic drone like the rest of Japanese society. Its like making a huge investment and not getting a good return on it.

I can have a better standard of life in my own country and have the ability to interact with actual human individuals, so why would I ever give that up for something that is, in every respect, worse than what I currently have or could obtain in any other country?

Japan appears to be a country suited towards either the delusional or the submissive. To be dealt a sh*t sandwich, eat it and say "Arigato Gozaimasu!!!" is just madness.

I am so glad I haven't made any commitments to traveling to Japan because I definitely will not be going there.
Thank you members of Gaijin Pot for opening my eyes to the real Japan. You've seriously done me a huge favour.

[Effected After]

You've hit the nail on the head. Japan isn't some 'specialty country' with an amazing standard of living for foreigners, where we can live the dream life. There are few reasons to live in Japan other than an interest in living in Japan. If you don't have that, you are almost guaranteed to be better off somewhere else.

It's actually fairly amazing that Gaijinpot managed to come up with a satisfactory answer for someone!

[KansaiBen]

So let me get this straight. Japan expects people to put all this work into learning their language, observing their customs and culture, saving up loads of money, getting a visa with a sponsorship, finding a job and paying out of their arse for accommodation to get exactly what in return?

No one is making you come here. If you dont like it stay at home. It would be the same if I immigrated to Wales and wanted to look for a job. I would be expected to learn Welsh and learn the customs.

Crappy flats? People who wont ever get close to you? A government that wont do anything? Sky high living costs? Discrimination? You talk of this as if its totally acceptable.

The good points far outweigh the bad which is why most of us choose to put up with stuff. Im sure there is bad stuff about living in Cardiff too if I sought it out.

I never expected Japan to cater to my culture or lifestyle but Im not going to put all that hard work in to trying to live in Japan just so I can become a robotic drone like the rest of Japanese society. Its like making a huge investment and not getting a good return on it.

Your mind is already made up before setting foot here. All I can say is you are setting yourself up for a fall if you are that stubborn and prejudiced in your views.

I can have a better standard of life in my own country and have the ability to interact with actual human individuals, so why would I ever give that up for something that is, in every respect, worse than what I currently have or could obtain in any other country?

Its a free country. So why are you asking whether you should move here. You are obviously not interested in learning about other cultures. The second corollary of that is you consider Welsh (your own) culture to be superior to Japan that you wont consider changing for them. You wont change for anybody, My culture is better, more superior.


People travel so they can experience the world, see different countries, learn about different lifetstyles and eat different food. If you are that closed minded that you would rather stay home and sit in front of the TV and watch a football match or go to the local for a pint then nothing anyone can say here will change your mind.

I am so glad I haven't made any commitments to traveling to Japan because I definitely will not be going there.
Thank you members of Gaijin Pot for opening my eyes to the real Japan. You've seriously done me a huge favour.

Idiot.


Upsides of living here

Small compact country, easy to get around
Clean. No graffiti on trains.
Trains run on time, like clockwork
Vending machines everywhere (good or bad depends on POV)
people are hospitable and polite to foreigners and visitors
Pretty amazing history going back 1300 years.
Great food and a variety, Not like English food.
Internet, cable TV, English newspapers and many foreigners around.

Downsides

Cost of living high, expensive to live here.
High taxation
Japanese can be insular and parochial, same as people anywhere in small towns.
For many a formidable language barrier, especially written language
Huge bureaucracy. Takes a long time to get things done.
Far from European countries and "civilisation". China is next door though.
Hard to make real friends. Lots of drinking buddies and acquaintances though.

[minamon]

Been here 26 years:

a few upsides:
can live cheaper here than in UK (because I don't need a car)
almost no perceptible crime (Twice in the last year I lost cards on the train -- got them back both times. Conclusions: lost property management is efficient, there are lots of honest folks (and I should stop losing cards :-))
big cities are near big-ish mountains, rivers, etc. if you like outdoors
you get *real* summer here (OK that might be a downside)
you most probably wont get overweight here
good health care system (although compulsory health insurance payments are expensive if you're young, single and healthy)

a few downsides
youre always a "visitor" (i.e., even after 25 years you're asked "So when are you going home?")
you have to avoid conflict with locals because it's their country (no matter how long you're here or who is in the right)
if you get fluent in Japanese, you'll still be used as English-conversation-fodder (unless you have an Asian face)
your kids end up becoming Japanese (if you have kids and your employer doesnt pay for international school)
longterm pension situation is uncertain
you cant just pop in on friends if youre in their neighbourhood - meetings and visits are always arranged and planned waaay beforehand
if you dont have a car, you cant just take off somewhere without planning
everyone takes holidays at the same time, so it's expensive and crowded

If you want to work in technical area, you might read book by English guy about working/assimilating/living here "Blue-Eyed Salaryman" - some humour, some insights, especially near the end.

[Effected After]

if you get fluent in Japanese, you'll still be used as English-conversation-fodder (unless you have an Asian face).

I just posted in another thread that I don't see this myself. I have only been here half as long as you, but I almost never get used for English-convo practice these days. It's been at least a few months since it last happened to me.

[thefg]

Hey all,

First time poster here, sorry if this is somehow in the wrong section of the forum!

I live in Wales in the UK and I've always been fascinated with Japan and it's culture and I'm planning a two week holiday to Tokyo for July next year.

I've been wondering about what it's like to live in Japan. I've been searching online for people's views but responses vary greatly. Some people say that Japan is a great place to live while others say it's only good for a holiday. Some people say it's expensive and others say it's affordable. Some people say Japanese society is discriminatory and racist while others claim to have never experienced any bother at all.

People's experiences of living in Japan seem to vary widely based upon a number of factors such as your particular nationality i.e. Americans seem to have more problems with racism/discrimination than British and other westerners and also where you move to in Japan i.e. Some areas of Japan seem to be more tolerant of foreigners and more affordable to live in than other areas.

But I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth and ask what should I expect if I decided to take up life in Japan? What are my job/career expectations (I'm studying for a BSc Computer Forensics degree), what is there to do for fun in Japan (I'm very open-minded so I'm up for anything the locals consider to be fun) and how easy is it to befriend locals? Will I experience discrimination and if so, will it be much of an obstacle to life in Japan? What areas of Japan would you recommend living in to a prospective ex-pat such as myself?

If I ever took up life in Japan, I would try my hardest to integrate with their society i.e. observing etiquette and customs, learning the language, experiencing the culture, etc. I don't plan on expecting Japan to cater towards my home culture and lifestyle, I'm more than happy to adapt to how things are in Japan.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Scott

Please consider that the kind of people who populate this forum does NOT represent the average joe in japan.

This forum is full of embittered losers. im sure there are forums in wales with similar characters. You wouldnt judge wales based on those people and i hope you dont judge japan based on us.

[thefg]

I was under the impression this was a serious site


SNIP

it turns out its mostly just a circlejerk of about a dozen people who are just itching to make sarcastic comments and win internet arguments.

correct (i did warn you)

[thefg]

If you want to work in technical area, you might read book by English guy about working/assimilating/living here "Blue-Eyed Salaryman" - some humour, some insights, especially near the end.

i read that book and it depressed the hell out of me.

fortunately it never applied to me but i can see it would apply to those entering at a 'local hire' kind of level

[liamoko]

Again these questions have been asked and answered before.search through some of the threads. I would suggest(if it is possible for you), to come here on a tourist permission. This would give you an idea of what it is like. You may find it doesn't fit you. Wanting to live in Japan and actually living in Japan are two separate things.

Kind regards

[minamon]

I just posted in another thread that I don't see this myself. I have only been here half as long as you, but I almost never get used for English-convo practice these days. It's been at least a few months since it last happened to me.

Maybe I should have said "you will sometimes be used for English practice"
It depends on where you hang out.

[Effected After]

That makes sense. These days I don't go many places that are places I haven't been before. And I only go to gaijin bars once a year or so. And even so, you're right, I still get hit up by people wanting English practice at times.

[chiba]

the Japanese are a stoic bunch and are not prone to whining

what about the women?

The upside of living in Japan is being able to meet loads of cute women. That's why everyone really wants to be there and can't bring themself to leave.

[ozzijp]

30 Views yet no replies?

Surely someone has some experience of living in Japan?

Some experience. Great tail, fine ales..what more does a young lad need?

[ozzijp]

These days I don't go many places that are places I haven't been before.

Lot of places there but based on your post count alone, GP seems to be your fav place.
Uncertain as to whether you can offer reliable advice to the OP on this matter. You really should get out more.

[Jakebullet]

No one is making you come here. If you dont like it stay at home. It would be the same if I immigrated to Wales and wanted to look for a job. I would be expected to learn Welsh and learn the customs.




The good points far outweigh the bad which is why most of us choose to put up with stuff. Im sure there is bad stuff about living in Cardiff too if I sought it out.




Your mind is already made up before setting foot here. All I can say is you are setting yourself up for a fall if you are that stubborn and prejudiced in your views.




Its a free country. So why are you asking whether you should move here. You are obviously not interested in learning about other cultures. The second corollary of that is you consider Welsh (your own) culture to be superior to Japan that you wont consider changing for them. You wont change for anybody, My culture is better, more superior.


People travel so they can experience the world, see different countries, learn about different lifetstyles and eat different food. If you are that closed minded that you would rather stay home and sit in front of the TV and watch a football match or go to the local for a pint then nothing anyone can say here will change your mind.




Idiot.


Upsides of living here

Small compact country, easy to get around
Clean. No graffiti on trains.
Trains run on time, like clockwork
Vending machines everywhere (good or bad depends on POV)
people are hospitable and polite to foreigners and visitors
Pretty amazing history going back 1300 years.
Great food and a variety, Not like English food.
Internet, cable TV, English newspapers and many foreigners around.

Downsides

Cost of living high, expensive to live here.
High taxation
Japanese can be insular and parochial, same as people anywhere in small towns.
For many a formidable language barrier, especially written language
Huge bureaucracy. Takes a long time to get things done.
Far from European countries and "civilisation". China is next door though.
Hard to make real friends. Lots of drinking buddies and acquaintances though.

A simple... Yes... Might have sufficed KB.

[sunnysideup]

I think you can judge the level of intelligence/wordly experience of many of the posters on this thread by the fact that they actually think Wales is a country.

[KansaiBen]

I think you can judge the level of intelligence/wordly experience of many of the posters on this thread by the fact that they actually think Wales is a country.

Just don't call them English, OK? Someone is talking out their butt-hole tonight.


Wales i/ˈweɪlz/ is a country that is part of the United Kingdom and the island of Great Britain, bordered by England to its east and the Atlantic Ocean and Irish Sea to its west. It had a population in 2011 of 3,064,000, and has a total area of 20,779 km2 (8,023 sq mi). Wales has over 1,200 km (750 mi) of coastline, and is largely mountainous, with its highest peaks in the north and central areas, including Snowdon (Yr Wyddfa), its highest summit. The country lies within the north temperate zone, and has a changeable, maritime climate.

[Jakebullet]

Just don't call them English, OK? Someone is talking out their butt-hole tonight.


Wales i/ˈweɪlz/ is a country that is part of the United Kingdom and the island of Great Britain, bordered by England to its east and the Atlantic Ocean and Irish Sea to its west. It had a population in 2011 of 3,064,000, and has a total area of 20,779 km2 (8,023 sq mi). Wales has over 1,200 km (750 mi) of coastline, and is largely mountainous, with its highest peaks in the north and central areas, including Snowdon (Yr Wyddfa), its highest summit. The country lies within the north temperate zone, and has a changeable, maritime climate.

Oops, there's the verbal diarrhea thing again KB!


But you are, in this case, dead right.

By the way, is you avatar picture impersonating a Welshman?

[sunnysideup]

Of course Wales is technically a country. But it's not a real country.

[BackDoor_Man]

Of course Wales is technically a country. But it's not a real country.

I am willing to bet a million yen, that you'd never say that in a room full of men from Wales, and walk out with all your teeth!

[PUNCHtoTHEguts]

Crappy flats? People who wont ever get close to you? A government that wont do anything? Sky high living costs? Discrimination? You talk of this as if its totally acceptable.

I am so glad I haven't made any commitments to traveling to Japan because I definitely will not be going there.
Thank you members of Gaijin Pot for opening my eyes to the real Japan. You've seriously done me a huge favour.

KB has once again been set up... Easy Peasy.

But yeah, but nah, mate. It's cheap as bloody chips here. Flats are awesome compared to London shiitholes and you can live in the centre of a major city (not Tokyo) totally within budget. Plus the food is bonza, the chicks are spunk monkeys and society in general lets you get away with just about anything (if you're not fat, creepy or short) if you know how to play your cards right (Stuff you Bruce, you twank).

So in con-bloody-clusion, Come and join in the rape and pillaging before it all goes to hell in a Hello Kitty hand basket!

[KansaiBen]

Of course Wales is technically a country. But it's not a real country.

I think you can judge the level of intelligence/wordly experience of many of the posters on this thread by the fact that they actually think Wales is a country.

Either it's a country or it's not. You simply got caught with your pants down.

Wordly experience?

[sunnysideup]

KB has once again been set up... Easy Peasy.

..........

[PurpleDaisies]

Either it's a country or it's not. You simply got caught with your pants down.

Wordly experience?

Hmmm....... A New Zealander lecturing about how to define "a country".

New Zealand is a country.
It technically has independence, but yet has a foreign monarch as a head of state.
The queen is on the money and the British flag is on the corner of the flag.

Maybe New Zealand can be considered more of a country than long subjugated Wales, but it's only a matter of degree.

[KansaiBen]

Hmmm....... A New Zealander lecturing about how to define "a country".

New Zealand is a country.
It technically has independence, but yet has a foreign monarch as a head of state.
The queen is on the money and the British flag is on the corner of the flag.

Maybe New Zealand can be considered more of a country than long subjugated Wales, but it's only a matter of degree.

The queen is head of state whenever she is in New Zealand to open Parliament. The Queens representative is the Governor general and last time I checked New Zealand was a constitutional democracy with a monarch as its head of state. So is Australia, Canada and about thirty other countries that are former colonies of the Queen. (Commonwealth). New Zealand has been an independent country with its own government since about 1910.

One does not need to be a republic just to be a country. How about Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland? they are not part of England (but ARE part of the British Isles) but have seats in the House of Commons and Scotland has its own parliament.

[PurpleDaisies]

The queen is head of state whenever she is in New Zealand to open Parliament. The Queens representative is the Governor general and last time I checked New Zealand was a constitutional democracy with a monarch as its head of state. So is Australia, Canada and about thirty other countries that are former colonies of the Queen. (Commonwealth)

One does not need to be a republic just to be a country. How about Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland? they are not part of England but have seats in the House of Commons and Scotland has its own parliament.

Sorry KB I owe you an apology. I read too quickly and thought it was you, rather than Sunnysideup, who was the one saying that Wales was not a country.

That was my point too. That a country does not have to be fully independent nor a republic to be considered a country.

Wales is a country.

However your statement that "it's either a country or it's not" was far too simplistic, as we need to look at how we define a country. In the real world that can often be a very politically loaded question.

[KansaiBen]

However your statement that "it's either a country or it's not" was far too simplistic, as we need to look at how we define a country. In the real world that can often be a very politically loaded question.

In the same way we could call probably Guam a country (even though its a US territory, and not a state) even though its controlled by the US and has its own parliament. Puerto Rico is another one that comes to mind. How about American Samoa?


generally speaking if it has its own head of state (Prime Minister, President) Its own currency, a national language, its own postage and judicial system then it could be called a country.