Employer=Jackass, Me=Tenant, Fudousan=Neutral

[ChrisElliot2000]

..................

[kitten]

Chris, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Are there of any legal documents that describe the rent arrangements (between the realtor and the employer, or between you and the employer)? That should be your primary source of information.

30% kickback is not outrageous, it can be as high as 50% even in IT. The people you talked to initially were probably not very experienced. Usually if a company wants to hire an agency's employee, there is either a concession payment (depending on the field, 2-3 months' salary), or a flat rate of anything between $10,000 to 50,000. Some agencies have a grace period of 2-3 years, after which they allow the employee to switch. The latter typically have higher kick-back rates but guarantee their clients a good pool of new hires.

I'm surprised that they kept you at the same place for 2 years. It's not a normal practice if they didn't want to end up in a situation like this. Talk to them, maybe they’ll consider the money. At least it’s a better option for them than just loosing you. There is a cost to employer associated with a loss of an employee, this way at the very least they will be able to offset it.

[ChrisElliot2000]

...................

[Mr. Solution]

Well...they could change the locks on you because they have the contract for the apartment. This might be illegal but then you have to sue them. Thats the problem with most "Ill sue you if..." situations, the negative consequences are immediate and the recourse might take up to a year.

I'd find a friend's place you can crash at just in case things get messy. Dont assume the company will let you push them around without any dirty tricks on their side. Theyve got alot more firepower than you.

Move on and cut your losses I say.

"Walk softly and carry a big stick" is usually the best bet. In other words, let them know that youve got a few cards to play but dont act or threaten directly.

Squatting....hmmmm again, you might get away with it for a few weeks but I bet theyd do something like lock you out.

Just move on as soon as you can.

[homesweethome]

Hi 5-bellied Potters,

My employer pays the rent out of my paycheck every month, but signed the contract with the Real Estate Agents and also act as Guarantor.

The relationship with my employer has soured and I need to quit as possible, but I don't want to move out of the apartment.
What rights do I have? And in the likely worst case of a vengeful employer, what tactics are at their disposal to kick me out and how can I prevent it?

Regards, CE




Oh... you want to know what happened and why I'm in this situation? Long story short:
Working through an Agency for the last 2 years and I want to get out from under their thumb and get employment benefits, not just a fat paycheck every month. The Agency tried to renegotiate my salary with the place I'm working at and failed, which I was hoping for so I could quit and get rehired by the place I'm working at now. But in the process the Agency immediately terminated my contract at the end of this month and are recalling me to the home office and have also screwed me over by enacting (Legal term) a clause (Legal term) that says my current employer cannot rehire me because I'm the Agency's b!tch. Rather than go back to the home office I'm going to tell them to go fu<k themselves. That means I've basically got 1 week of work left before becoming a bum. But I'd like to keep the apartment at least until I sort out the location for my next job.


I can handle the job part, I just want to know how long I can squat in my apartment for.

If you do what others have recommended, change the locks before they do and 'squat' which I guess means you won't be paying the rent you can probably squeeze a couple months out of it if they stay on the up and up. You said the company pays the rent out of your salary, to who? The landlord right? You could at least make an effort to contact them directly and explain what happened and that you want to hang around the apartment till you get things settled. Giving them a months worth of rent in a little envelop wouldn't hurt either. The landlord might not like it but if you show that you don't intend to renig on the rent I can't imagine what grievance they would have with you.

So many of these companies use the apartment as leverage over thier employees to keep them in line. Maybe you know this already thought if you have been around here for a while.

[ChrisElliot2000]

.........................

[Varus]

How come I missed this thread?
Hey Morning Star, I hope everything's OK.
Wish I could help. If the Fudosan gets 'heavy', I could send him or his 'assistants' home with pieces of their bodies missing! ,but nothing otherwise I can suggest.
You stick in there and if worse comes to the worst, you could always crash out with Sandro.
Take care and Merry Xmas - really!

That's a bummer of a story, it's almost like something out of 12th Century Feudal Europe!

[ChrisElliot2000]

.................

[銕銕銕]

Thanks Sandro.

12th century Europe = 21st century Japan

Basically what the employer dispute came down to was the Agency was ignoring my demands to draw up a contract and treat me like a real employee, so I petitioned the company I work at for help and at first they supported me, but then the entrenched management and my Agency had some closed door meetings and came out with the idea that I am 'dangerous' and too much of a risk to keep around. The Agency and the company have a history and relationship together, which means they collude to keep employees powerless and when they start arguing about their rights, they get the boot.

There's no doubt that this was necessary for me to leave the Agency, since I've been working towards this conclusion for the last year. This was the only way to keep my career from stagnating.

Sorry to hear about your predicament.

Well, this could give you an opportunity to better explore your sincity.

you can stay in my old apartment if you want. The key is under the sunoko outside the communal shower thingy.

[ChrisElliot2000]

Just an update.

I've been communicating with homesweety and he's been giving me good advice and kept me from doing anything stupid and irrational.

Evidently, the Agency I worked for was having entirely different discussions with the company than they were with me.

For instance, I told the Agency that I wanted a contract, insurance, and career advancement opportunities.
They told the company that I wanted a 30万円 per month pay raise and that I'd quit if I didn't get it.
So the company told the Agency that my position had been terminated and the Agency immediately dissolved our non-existant contract. (個人契約) whatever that is.

Funny thing is... I haven't received any written notice that I've been terminated. And nobody has announced that I won't be coming back next year. Or that the position has been closed. Or that my team members are fuct come 2007.

My guess is that they hope I'll just stop showing up and then tell everybody that I got homesick and went back to America. F*cking Americans, you know, they just up and leave, you can't trust um, one minute they're here and the next they're gone, they don't give a fu<k who they leave behind in the wake of their tsunami. No! We didn't terminate his position and nothing fishy was going on with that Agency. Back to work please, people.

[Varus]

This whole affair sounds really sh!tty.
What are you going to do about the housing problem?

[ChrisElliot2000]

I've got until the end of February in my current apartment. That's enough time to sort things out so I'm not worried about that anymore. But I'll still take Aha Yes and Sandro up on their offers to let me stay at their place for a couple weeks. Maybe give their wives/girlfriends something they've been missing.

[homesweethome]

30% of Labor Force is Temp

The thing is the Labor standards office is supposed to be putting a stop to this and it is their job but they seem overwhelmed.

[homesweethome]

Just an update.

I've been communicating with homesweety and he's been giving me good advice and kept me from doing anything stupid and irrational.

Evidently, the Agency I worked for was having entirely different discussions with the company than they were with me.

For instance, I told the Agency that I wanted a contract, insurance, and career advancement opportunities.
They told the company that I wanted a 30万円 per month pay raise and that I'd quit if I didn't get it.
So the company told the Agency that my position had been terminated and the Agency immediately dissolved our non-existant contract. (個人契約) whatever that is.

Funny thing is... I haven't received any written notice that I've been terminated. And nobody has announced that I won't be coming back next year. Or that the position has been closed. Or that my team members are fuct come 2007.

My guess is that they hope I'll just stop showing up and then tell everybody that I got homesick and went back to America. F*cking Americans, you know, they just up and leave, you can't trust um, one minute they're here and the next they're gone, they don't give a fu<k who they leave behind in the wake of their tsunami. No! We didn't terminate his position and nothing fishy was going on with that Agency. Back to work please, people.

That occured to me too. If you had just put on your walking boots like they wanted you to do, you would have been the fall guy for all of it. The Ugly Gaijin who never treats us right, selfish bastards, we better not hire another one of those again, etc.

I forgot to mention CE that you also are entitled to a Certificate of Termination from that dispatch company which will state the exact day of your termination and the reason for it which you must give your approval to.

If they won't give you one or try to shove it under the rug, take it up with Labor and they will make them issue you one.

I would like to see them try to put THAT reason on the COT.

[steeny]

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[ChrisElliot2000]

Nice articles, I just hope that this issue has the possibility of being resolved without the filth snaking their way out of their responsibilities.

This is interesting.

I just requested the Notice of Termination document(退職証明書) from the kocksuckers and the President called me up saying, "Huh, what's that? You don't need it. You've already been released so there's nothing left to do."

He never responds to emails because he's such a shifty _______ so the only next step is to dump it on the Labor Office and let them handle it. Here's my followup letter to him after the phone call->
○○社長殿

お疲れ様です。電話を頂きましてありがとうございまし た。
ですが、より社長殿の話を具体的に理解できるように、
これからはメールのみで連絡して頂けますようお願い致します。

また、添付した 「議事録.xls」に関して、私の認識が間違わないように 、内容を確認の上捺印をお願いします。

及び、退職証明書の例を添付しました。
退職したという証明が後々必要となりますので、特に書 式は問いませんが、作成の程宜しくお願い致します。

Bastads

[steeny]

xxxxxxxxxx

[thatsme]

I've got until the end of February in my current apartment. That's enough time to sort things out so I'm not worried about that anymore. But I'll still take Aha Yes and Sandro up on their offers to let me stay at their place for a couple weeks. Maybe give their wives/girlfriends something they've been missing.

no worries,
i am happy to have missed that.
just fill the gap, as much as you like.
as i pmed you, you are welcome to crush at my place anytime.

[thatsme]

He never responds to emails

in my experience they rarely do.
even in my internal e mail to my bosses, never got a reply.

i don't know what is with this not wanting to reply e mails.

[ChrisElliot2000]

I like the "Bastads" part on the bottom. Do you always sign off like that?

Yes.

I just say, "それは英語のほのぼのとした俗語です。"

[ChrisElliot2000]

Fastforward 2 years.

I just came back from Tokyo District Court today and the judge awarded me 10 million yen.

Keep stickin it to the man, people. Especially in these tough economic times, companies are going to be screwing people over left and right. Visit your nearest Labour Standards office and get yourself a good lawyer (With experience in Labour Law) as soon as you smell trouble in the workplace.

[hypertokyo]

Congratulations.

[Pkl]

Well done!

I've advised two people to take legal action against previous employers in Japan, or at least go have their cases checked out...and neither have shown even the slightest inclination of doing it, despite having been screwed over quite badly. If only more people had a little bit of backbone, there'd be less companies treating people like this.

Bravo, that man!

[Bella Bowtruckle]

Congratulations !
So which feels better - getting the money or sticking it to the ex-employers ? Was your former boss there for the ruling ? His face must have been classic when he heard...

[ChrisElliot2000]

It was kinda surreal. The judge was in and out of the courtroom in 5 minutes and no one could understand what she said. She read over the 5 or 6 conditions of her judgment quickly and quietly then bolted out of the courtroom.

Then both parties went upstairs to the clerks office and picked up the official judgment. It was only at this point that my lawyer explained what the judge had written and that I had a 100% victory. I didn't see any reaction from the filth, but I know they're shaiting themselves at this moment. Once they figure out that their only option is to pay or spite me by declaring bankruptcy, liens will have already been placed on their properties.

Cons:
Took a 2 year chunk out of my professional career (IT doesn't forgive long sabaticals)
Emotional rollercoaster. Despite overwhelming evidence supporting my case, this is Japan and who knows wtf is going to happen.
Towards the end I put myself in about $4k debt... If the company decides to declare bankruptcy rather than pay me, I'm still FUCT
Anybody want to give me a job with a 2yr gap in my resume because I was busy cornholing my employer?

Pros:
Learned about the legal process and Labour Law
Had plenty of time to study backgammon and poker
Did some interesting baitos
Saw a lot of Japan
The satisfaction of playing social chess and laying down checkmate on the bully.

So when do we celebrate? I can arrange a one-month homestay for us with a family of prostitutes (mother and her 2 nasty-@ssed daughters). For 3 million we get unlimited anal access, 6 bottles of nikka black, language exchange, a trip to the aquarium when they're ovulating, etc. You deserve it.

Make it 2 million, 10 bottles, a 300 gallon fishtank in the living room with plecostomus and you got yourself a deal.

[zmcnulty]

Congrats!
Can you be more specific about the 10M yen? Why were you awarded this amount, and not, say, 50M yen? Is the 10M before or after your legal fees (quite high if this was a 2 year battle)? Do you still live in the apartment?

My apartment is via a corporate contract too, so your story is particularly interesting. I guess in my case though things would be more simplistic because I'm a seishain rather than contracted via an agency. Also they don't want to damage their reputation... so I doubt they'd want to play hardball with a former regular employee.

[RonBurgundy]

Kudos slim, now when are they paying you?

No parties just yet. You need cash in hand before you celebrate.

2 years out of work isn't bad, as long as you keep the ol' noggin active.

[Ken44]

No parties just yet. You need cash in hand before you celebrate.

So true.

As a property owner in the US I won a judgment against a tenant but actually collecting the money is another story. Best I could do was have the guy tossed out and fuxk up his credit rating but I never got the money I was owed.

[ChrisElliot2000]

Congrats!
Can you be more specific about the 10M yen? Why were you awarded this amount, and not, say, 50M yen? Is the 10M before or after your legal fees (quite high if this was a 2 year battle)? Do you still live in the apartment?

The 10M yen is for salary owed for the last 24 months since the 'abusive termination' of employment. 不当解雇された。 There are essentially no punitive damages in Japan.

Legal fees will come out to 20% of the settlement minus the retainer of 240,000 that I paid at the beginning. In addition to that, I also paid about 100,000 in various other court costs. So after legal fees and paying off debt, I'm up about 7M, which is paltry compared to what I would have made if I was actually working.

I moved out of the Ibaraki apartment in March 2007 and moved to Tokyo.

If I knew then what I know now... I might have been able to arrange a 2-6 months severance package in order to leave quietly, or simply told them to shove off and continue working. However, they only gave me one week's notice and I had no idea what was going on or what my rights were.

At first, I went to the Labour Standards office and only demanded that they pay me for the 1 month after they fired me, which is customary under the law. 3 months later, and after a lot of stonewalling, they told the Labour office that I QUIT! After that the gloves came off, I pursued a Labour Mediation by myself and they just said, "We won't pay a single yen." The arbitrator said my only option at that point was to go to court. That's when I got my lawyers and sued their asses off. They resisted every step of the way and even tried to counter-sue, but the judge threw it out and found them at fault for the entire mess.

Any company that has adequate legal counsel will try to settle quickly, but this one was so pompous and condescending that they fought me the entire way. Same thing happened with Kara Harris when she sued Nova and won. The chances that a foreigner has the time and resources to fight a legal battle through to the end are remote, and some unscrupulous companies will absolutely try to take advantage of that.

[ChrisElliot2000]

So true.

As a property owner in the US I won a judgment against a tenant but actually collecting the money is another story. Best I could do was have the guy tossed out and fuxk up his credit rating but I never got the money I was owed.

Same here. The best I can do if I don't collect is put them out of business, put 80 people out of work and foreclose on their office property.

[RonBurgundy]

So true.

As a property owner in the US I won a judgment against a tenant but actually collecting the money is another story. Best I could do was have the guy tossed out and fuxk up his credit rating but I never got the money I was owed.

True indeed.


These corporate clowns could tie your money up in so much bureaucratic red tape that you'll be collecting a pension before the settlement.


You've gone this far, what's a liitle bit longer.

Good Luck,

RB

[Ken44]

...Any company that has adequate legal counsel will try to settle quickly, but this one was so pompous and condescending that they fought me the entire way.

Did the court give any indication on when you can expect to collect? If the company cries hardship or something else and refuses to pay what’s the next legal step?

In the case I had against my tenant the judge ruled he had to pay what was owed within ten days or else face eviction. When he didn’t my property management company took the court ruling to the sheriff’s department and he was forcibly evicted. However, to actually collect the money I would have had to contact a collection agency but since the guy left the state there really wasn’t much I could do.

The case you’ve described sounds as if there is a lot of animosity and the guy will likely do whatever he can to avoid paying.

[ChrisElliot2000]

The point is that I won and now I can go on with life and start working again.

I just talked to my lawyers and they said that it would be best to contact the companies that they do business with and start messing up their 世間体, so to speak. (Taking out a lien on their property works better, but costs 600,000Yen per unit).

By the way, if you work with any of the following companies, please contact me:
株式会社アイ・エス・ビー
株式会社インテック
株式会社ＳＲＡ
ＮＥＣソフト株式会社
キヤノンシステムソリューションズ株式会社
株式会社ＣＳＫ
住商情報システム株式会社
大明株式会社
ＴＩＳ株式会社
東京コンピュターサービス株式会社
日本システムウェア株式会社
社団法人日本自動車連盟
日立建機ビジネスフロンティア株式会社
株式会社日立製作所
株式会社ビスタ
富士ソフトＡＢＣ株式会社
扶桑電通株式会社
丸紅情報システムズ株式会社

[homesweethome]

Did the court give any indication on when you can expect to collect? If the company cries hardship or something else and refuses to pay what’s the next legal step?

Put a lein on their property and if they don't pay up, go to court and foreclose on them. The court sells their properties and the money is used to pay off the creditors, if they don't declare bankruptcy that is. Even if they to the same thing will happen and the court will dispose of their properties to pay off creditors. Either way its not good for them unless they have such outstanding debts that there is no way they could hope to pay them off.

[Ken44]

Put a lein on their property

It appears costly to do this. (see post #35)

....and if they don't pay up, go to court

Yep, back to court again.

The court sells their properties and the money is used to pay off the creditors, if they don't declare bankruptcy that is.

One would hope so but this is Japan so who knows. The lawyers said that it would be best to contact the companies the defendant does business with and start messing up the defendant's reputation but that's just sounds like a major hassle with no guarantees. Anyway I hope he gets his money one way or the other. It would be a real bitxh to have nothing to show for the two years spent suing the guy.

[hypertokyo]

By the way, if you work with any of the following companies, please contact me:
株式会社アイ・エス・ビー
株式会社インテック
株式会社ＳＲＡ
ＮＥＣソフト株式会社
キヤノンシステムソリューションズ株式会社
株式会社ＣＳＫ
住商情報システム株式会社
大明株式会社
ＴＩＳ株式会社
東京コンピュターサービス株式会社
日本システムウェア株式会社
社団法人日本自動車連盟
日立建機ビジネスフロンティア株式会社
株式会社日立製作所
株式会社ビスタ
富士ソフトＡＢＣ株式会社
扶桑電通株式会社
丸紅情報システムズ株式会社

Can you explain the significance of this list? We may have some business with them.

[ChrisElliot2000]

Can you explain the significance of this list? We may have some business with them.

These are the companies that the hakken does business with and supplies SE's to. So if you work at one of the companies on the list then there's a good chance that my previous employer is stocking them with hakkens.

Edited: I think we would contact these creditors so if my former employer tried to switch his bank account, these companies would know it was because he is trying to swindle his way out of a court judgment. This step in the litigation is called, '差押え' Sashiosae... attachment (as part of judgment reconciliation).

BTW- The President of the company tried to call me up directly today.

"Hey hey kurisu-kun, we need to work this problem out"
-Talk to my lawyers
"We don't need to involve them, just tell me what you want. I might be able to get your old job back."
-hansei shitenneeka?
"Apologize? For what? We're here because of your lies!"
-Don't ever call me again. My lawyers will tell you where to deposit the money.
<click>

[ChrisElliot2000]

It's strange though - either you didn't buy me any drinks on Saturday or I don't remember drinking them. Anyways, no matter. But I'll need a 1 mil downpayment for our homestay and the nasty-a$$ed daughters, at my suggestion, want another mil for boob jobs. You deserve it!

Sounds good.

Looks like they appealed again, so that money may take another couple of months to come through...