The Vent About J-Drivers Thread

[wernst]

Aaaaaaaaaaand another one. Whatthe____

http://www.japantoday.com/category/c...osaka#comments

[Shakes Spear]

Aaaaaaaaaaand another one. Whatthe____

http://www.japantoday.com/category/c...osaka#comments

Another senseless tragedy perpetuated by a clueless J-driver.

Of course iago would have you believe that the children (and teacher) are at fault for assuming the car would obey the law and stop for the crosswalk.

My assumption is that if you expect drivers to ignore the pedestrian crossing, you don't step out in front of a moving car.

You can't change the behaviour of every other driver on the road, so you have to ensure your own behaviour avoids putting yourself in conflict with them.

You're actually more at risk if you expect the other guy to strictly obey the rules, and don't allow for the possibility that he won't.

Probably one of those that believes a rape victim is to blame for wearing a skirt.

[Piethrower]

I can see this thread has broken down into: those who've driven in J-land for a while, and those who haven't--guess which posts represent which.

Oh I get it. If only I could stand inside your shoes I'd share your contempt for Japanese drivers. That's clear to you, is it?

Well, Jinxy, I must tell you I find that offensive - to suggest with such conviction that I could ever be a whiny, vicious little swamp rat like you, my oh my. And for the record, I have plenty of experience driving in Tokyo. But actually this thread is only nominally about Japanese drivers - it's more about your contempt for all Japanese people & things in general which manifests itself in virtually every thread/post you make, year after year....

[iago]

Another senseless tragedy perpetuated by a clueless J-driver.

Of course iago would have you believe that the children (and teacher) are at fault for assuming the car would obey the law and stop for the crosswalk.



Probably one of those that believes a rape victim is to blame for wearing a skirt.

No, clearly that driver was completely at fault and made a stupid and tragic mistake. There was nothing the kids could have done to anticipate and avoid this.

On the broader issue, I think we've established the purpose of this thread.

[Piethrower]

I can only confirm that, but I want to add another observation. Japanese in general seem to have great problems about the space that surrounds them, I noticed this first in supermarkets, where they almost always look in one direction, while pushing their cart and going into another one. Of course people like that can be observed in any country, but in my experience that behaviour seems to be normal for Japanese.

Writers of travel diaries from a century ago were similarly confounded by those curious Japanese creatures. Today, one chuckles at their intepretations of Japanese society & behavior and tosses the diaries into the dustbin.

Your observations would be similarly quaint if only they didn't reveal an ignorance that in this day and age is unforgivable. You ninny!

Japanese people don't have 'great problems' with the space that surrounds them. It's westerners for the most part who have the problems. Why? Because we're taught to respect the personal space of others, to do our utmost to prevent collisions or be prepared for a fist fight.

It's very laudable but unfortunately rather impractical in Japan - population density and all that. I feel sorry for myself (and other foreigners) whenever I have to navigate through monstrously crowded stations like Ikebukuro or Shinjuku knowing that I will have to move like a flamenco dancer to avoid being accosted by the swelling masses and also knowing that I will receive little in the way of cooperation from my fellow travelers. But dance I do - I stay on high alert, contort my body this way and that and in most cases manage to reach the exit without incident.

But it takes a toll, both physical and mental. You know what I'm talking about or you wouldn't be b*tching about it. And imagine if you were to spend 12 hours per day trying to dodge people in Ikebukuro station. You'd go mad UNLESS you went native. I envy the Japanese their blissful indifference to the movements of others. I wish I could emulate them, crash into people, mumble a few sumimasens and be on my way - because it makes sense here - but sadly I'm no better than you in that respect.

[Hijinx]

On the broader issue, I think we've established the purpose of this thread.

To vent about J-drivers--for those of us who drive or have driven in Japan enough to know about some of the more annoying habits that seem to happen with great regularity.

And...of course...it attracts those who feel they need to vent about the venters, the J-apologists, and the usual boring trolls.

[Piethrower]

I am afraid that your last sentence is precisely the thing that the people of this country (not just as far as traffic goes) would need a a lot more of.

Maybe then they would get a life instead of their absurd existence. And they might make some inroads against the stupidity and corruption makes such a mess of their country.
Instead of helping every idiot 24 hours a day to avoid loosing face, they should point out that he does behave like an a...hole.

Worldwide observation might even teach you, that this is actually the only way to force people to learn and change?

What a mess of a post. I'll just point out that you and I look at this 'mess of a country' (and probably this forum) from different perspectives. You see, despite a knowledge of Japan and Japanese culture that must certainly dwarf yours, I would never presume to teach the Japanese anything - I'm perfectly comfortable with the way things are. When I tear down the joban expressway with 'Living the vida loca' by the great Hiromi Go blasting from my speakers all the Japanese drivers within earshot give me a big thumbs up.

Maybe life is meant to be absurd. I dunno. It's probably not important. Not a single thread on this board is important actually but the people who congregate here fascinate me (some of them anyways). You and your desire to save the Japanese from themselves fascinate me. If you'll allow me to pay you a little compliment, you, John Grey, are absurd.

[Hijinx]

Another one: the drivers who won't slow down when passing an oncoming car in a particularly narrow section of road--again, selfishness.

[TJrandom]

Another one: the drivers who won't slow down when passing an oncoming car in a particularly narrow section of road--again, selfishness.

But then it only matters if the paint gets scratched... if there is enough room for the dust to remain on the sides of the cars - it doesn't matter at what speed they pass by.

[iago]

To vent about J-drivers--for those of us who drive or have driven in Japan enough to know about some of the more annoying habits that seem to happen with great regularity.

And...of course...it attracts those who feel they need to vent about the venters, the J-apologists, and the usual boring trolls.

No venting from me. Just putting forward my opinion (which, by its difference, clearly makes me a troll and an apologist, because those are the only options.)

[TJrandom]

Maybe added above somewhere - but my two are:

1) Drivers who swerve in the opposite direction before completing a turn.
2) Drivers in the smallest of cars who want to stay as far away from the side of the road as is possible.

The key of course is to recognise these and adjust your own driving so as to avoid a messy and time consuming event.

[hml]

Maybe added above somewhere - but my two are:

1) Drivers who swerve in the opposite direction before completing a turn.

I was on a scooter today and a car did exactly that. Signaled left and pulled all the way to the right. As he was breaking, I approached him quite quickly, but was unable to go around left or right because of his dumbass turn. The only reason I did not follow him and kick his mirrors off was because I was already late and it was raining.

re: iago's comments about pedestrians and crossings. I have to agree. When you think about the (lack of) driving skills in Japan, it's best to assume that drivers will *not* stop for you. It's not to say that pedestrians who take the right of way when they have it are wrong, I just think you have to look out for number one and not expect everyone else to do it for you.

[Hijinx]

No venting from me. Just putting forward my opinion (which, by its difference, clearly makes me a troll and an apologist, because those are the only options.)

My bad. I forgot to include the category: opinionators.

[Shakes Spear]

No, clearly that driver was completely at fault and made a stupid and tragic mistake. There was nothing the kids could have done to anticipate and avoid this.

So let me make sure I understand your logic on this.

If I die in an accident caused by a self-absorbed environmentally unaware native citizen, then he's completely at fault and it's safe to mourn for me.

But if I manage to avoid him and survive, solely because fortunately one of us is actually concerned for the safety of others and is able to react quickly enough, and I then vent my frustration about it on a forum that is set up for the purpose of discussing life in Japan, I'm the asshole.

Does that pretty much sum up your stance?

[John Grey]

Writers of travel diaries from a century ago were similarly confounded by those curious Japanese creatures. Today, one chuckles at their intepretations of Japanese society & behavior and tosses the diaries into the dustbin.

Your observations would be similarly quaint if only they didn't reveal an ignorance that in this day and age is unforgivable. You ninny!

Japanese people don't have 'great problems' with the space that surrounds them. It's westerners for the most part who have the problems. Why? Because we're taught to respect the personal space of others, to do our utmost to prevent collisions or be prepared for a fist fight.

It's very laudable but unfortunately rather impractical in Japan - population density and all that. I feel sorry for myself (and other foreigners) whenever I have to navigate through monstrously crowded stations like Ikebukuro or Shinjuku knowing that I will have to move like a flamenco dancer to avoid being accosted by the swelling masses and also knowing that I will receive little in the way of cooperation from my fellow travelers. But dance I do - I stay on high alert, contort my body this way and that and in most cases manage to reach the exit without incident.

But it takes a toll, both physical and mental. You know what I'm talking about or you wouldn't be b*tching about it. And imagine if you were to spend 12 hours per day trying to dodge people in Ikebukuro station. You'd go mad UNLESS you went native. I envy the Japanese their blissful indifference to the movements of others. I wish I could emulate them, crash into people, mumble a few sumimasens and be on my way - because it makes sense here - but sadly I'm no better than you in that respect.

I avoid the problem generally by visiting the city only rarely, and enjoy living on the outskirts. I avoid using the car a lot, and by using backroads where possible. The point is, that it not only "takes a toll, both physical and mental", the result of this way of behaving is the actual Japan. Of all the countries with sufficient money, Japan is by far the one with lowest quality of life for the individual. And I clearly see the connection of the behaviour that we talk about here, and the absurd sociological and political result....
While I accept the behaviour, as it also brings with it a lot of advantages for me, I am very clear that I would never live here amongst such circumstances, if I would still have to work for my money. For all my life, whereever I have encountered such a miserable way of life, I have without exception, after fullfilling my contract, packed my suitcase, turned around, and walked away.
In Tokyo I enjoy what you described so prefectly as moving like a "flamenco dancer" through huge train stations. I enjoy it, because I rarely do it, and never because I have to do it.... that makes all the difference.

[John Grey]

Maybe added above somewhere - but my two are:

1) Drivers who swerve in the opposite direction before completing a turn.
2) Drivers in the smallest of cars who want to stay as far away from the side of the road as is possible.

The key of course is to recognise these and adjust your own driving so as to avoid a messy and time consuming event.

I beg to differ about #2..... You see, all you need to do is use a scooter and you will see the advantage of it.

[John Grey]

What a mess of a post. I'll just point out that you and I look at this 'mess of a country' (and probably this forum) from different perspectives. You see, despite a knowledge of Japan and Japanese culture that must certainly dwarf yours, I would never presume to teach the Japanese anything - I'm perfectly comfortable with the way things are. When I tear down the joban expressway with 'Living the vida loca' by the great Hiromi Go blasting from my speakers all the Japanese drivers within earshot give me a big thumbs up.

Maybe life is meant to be absurd. I dunno. It's probably not important. Not a single thread on this board is important actually but the people who congregate here fascinate me (some of them anyways). You and your desire to save the Japanese from themselves fascinate me. If you'll allow me to pay you a little compliment, you, John Grey, are absurd.

You are misinterpreting my comments. I do not want to change them, I simply do not want to store up on anger and later unload it on to some innocent fool who simply happens to be at the wrong place.

Also, I am wondering about your compliment. I have always been a great friend of Aragon and Breton, as well as of surrealism.
And I do enjoy singing to the car CD player blasting, when I have to drive the 30 kms to the nearest Yamaya supermarket to buy "real" food.

[TJrandom]

I beg to differ about #2..... You see, all you need to do is use a scooter and you will see the advantage of it.

So as an extension - I must add scooters who also hug the center of roads, forcing oncoming traffic to the shoulder. But then this was to be about J-drivers - not lost-soul reading comprehension challenged foreigners.

[oxymoron]

Having had a little bleat in an earlier post, I think that, if you use your car for local shopping and getting away at weekends, driving in Japan is no more of a problem than driving in other countries.
If you live in the 'burbs, use public transport to go into the city. It's cheaper than driving, easy and efficient. Whatsmore, you get to blow kisses to all the prople on the train who are staring at you.

[TJrandom]

... Whatsmore, you get to blow kisses to all the prople on the train who are staring at you.

Now that is positively gross – at least for the first train run of the morning which I usually ride. There be fishmongers going to Tsukiji, construction workers, janitors, girls and guys on the rebound from last night’s partying, the homeless, and just a few office workers – and it isn’t a pretty sight.

[ThaHamburgler]

Now that is positively gross – at least for the first train run of the morning which I usually ride. There be fishmongers going to Tsukiji, construction workers, janitors, girls and guys on the rebound from last night’s partying, the homeless, and just a few office workers – and it isn’t a pretty sight.

Sloppy seconds, mmmmmmm

Made me laugh with that blowin kisses remark. Haha, spot on

[oxymoron]

Seriously, you have to try the blowing kisses thing.
You won't believe the embarrassment of the recipient. Except once, when a salaryman blew a kiss right back at me...yeech! Payback time!

[Hijinx]

Okay, this one happened today: a large truck ignoring the no-large-truck sign on a narrow road--I deliberately took my time moving into a space off to the side (lucky there was one) and then flipped him off as he went by.

[Hijinx]

Hate this one: the weasels who try and jump the light in order to turn right in front of you instead of waiting. I saw one getting ready to do this, today, as I was at the front waiting for a red. I gunned it just as the car tried to turn in front of me ahead of the green light. Hehe, she got a shock as I came at her with my horn a blasting. She slams on her brakes as I swerve around the front of her car. Hehehehehehe, a win today.

[wernst]

watch out. I did that a couple of times with 1 hitting me. No damage but the whole shouting scene and waiting for the police was not worth it.
The problem is, even if we do it. There are millions of other drivers doing the same, nobody learns

[Mr. Ludd]

Tailgating morons. Bad enough on an open road, but still get fools trying to "push" me faster, even though there is a red light just ahead. Usually tap on the brakes so the lights come on and make evil faces at them.

[Hijinx]

Tailgating morons. Bad enough on an open road, but still get fools trying to "push" me faster, even though there is a red light just ahead. Usually tap on the brakes so the lights come on and make evil faces at them.

I like to slow down really slow for the tailgaters and "drive" them mad.

[pjb]

Hate this one: the weasels who try and jump the light in order to turn right in front of you instead of waiting. I saw one getting ready to do this, today, as I was at the front waiting for a red. I gunned it just as the car tried to turn in front of me ahead of the green light. Hehe, she got a shock as I came at her with my horn a blasting. She slams on her brakes as I swerve around the front of her car. Hehehehehehe, a win today.

I don't see a problem with this. It seems like good manners to let the car in the opposite lane turn right in front of you when you both have red signals. Might delay your start by a whole 5 seconds, say, but prevent 30 seconds of congestion in the opposite lane.

Just sayin'.

[pjb]

Tailgating morons. Bad enough on an open road, but still get fools trying to "push" me faster, even though there is a red light just ahead. Usually tap on the brakes so the lights come on and make evil faces at them.

If I see a red light up ahead I usually take my foot off the accelerator and roll up to the lights, as opposed to the usual "slam the brakes on when you are 10 metres from the signal" antics of Japanese drivers. This seems to infuriate quite a few drivers who will screech past me to arrive at the lights faster.

Can't understand it, myself.

[madazzahatter]

If I see a red light up ahead I usually take my foot off the accelerator and roll up to the lights, as opposed to the usual "slam the brakes on when you are 10 metres from the signal" antics of Japanese drivers. This seems to infuriate quite a few drivers who will screech past me to arrive at the lights faster.

Can't understand it, myself.

You can't understand it because you have common sense.

[Hijinx]

I don't see a problem with this. It seems like good manners to let the car in the opposite lane turn right in front of you when you both have red signals. Might delay your start by a whole 5 seconds, say, but prevent 30 seconds of congestion in the opposite lane.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, sometimes that might work, but this woman was in a separate turn lane. And even if she weren't, what if a few more behind her wanted to turn as well? Do I hold up my line of traffic for everyone who wants to turn in front of me instead of waiting? But, as you say, there are occasions when I'll judge the situation and let a car go in front of me to make the situation better for everyone. Though, more often than not, the person trying to cut in front is just being a weasel, like I said.

[NonStopReaper]

my Vent on J-drivers is when they pull over on the road and stop or get out for a quick stop but they do it right next to another car on the opposite side so now the road is blocked and only 1 way traffic can get pass. Do they not teach these people how to stagger?

[Guru]

I have not read the whole thread.

Anyhow, I think J drivers in general are better than Americans (especially in New York and New Jersey) in terms of frequency of road rages. But, there are so much pent up angers among so many J drivers (especially angry truck drivers - who blame them? I would be bitter if I end up driving a truck all day long at such a low pay without any intellectual stimulation in Japan). The Japanese society makes its natives hide their true feeling to put on a false facade in general, outside the family circle.

1. I hate slow people (both slow drivers and slow workers, by the way). I pass them when the opportunity comes without any hesitation even on the road with a solid white or yellow center line. No cop and no on-coming traffic = my free pass not to waste my precious time on slow people. I just hate inefficiency on all fronts.
2. As soon as I pass those people, some of them suddently start punching their gas pedal. But, too late for them, because I have already zipped by them. The fact they have been passed by me oftentimes pi s s es them off, especially in the non passing zone. Mind you, I am safely passing them as I stated above, as far as I am concerned.

One time, a young male truck driver got pi s s ed that I passed him in the passing zone. I knew he was flooring the gas pedal. But, a truck being a truck, it is still just simply too slow for me. He started weaving off to the opposite lane while tailgating me. At a stop light, he threw a cigarette and it landed on my rear wiper. I got out of my car quickly and picked up that freaking cigaratte and threw that back at his truck's windshield (I aimed at his face). I thought he might get off his truck; but, I guess he did not expect I got out of my car so quickly to throw back his cigarette back to him. The light turned green. I got back into my car (I hate wasting time on strangers on the road who bother me or slow me down), picked up a wet tissue quickly to wipe off my hand (I am a clean freak) and put my right arm out of the window and gave him the bird. I think that pis s ed him off more (he is a j driver; so, I did not expect him to understand a foreign sign language). Now that I knew he reacted to this, I kept my middle finger up until we went the separate way (he had to make a trun, I believe, because of the road width). I have to admit I was having fun with this, as long as I didn't need to spend my time on this J-guy.

My encounter with road rages has been less in Japan than the US, which is good. Every single day back in the US, I used to force myself to keep my anger at just giving the middle finger.

I believe Japanese criminal laws would favor the party who loses the fight, regardless of what caused it. So, there is no self defense per se in Japan as far as the law is concerned.

[Hijinx]

Today, there was a car parked in the small, pull-over area before a short, one-lane tunnel. It created a bit of a mess when an oncoming car in the tunnel met the car in front of me, who had no place to pull over. I had to back up--as well as the car in front of me--to a place in the road wide enough for two cars to pass as another car approached me from the rear. This car that had approached me from the rear didn't realized what was going on and tried to pass, only to see a car coming at her. So she had to stop, back up past and then behind me to allow this car to pass. And, of course, yet another car came up behind this woman trying to back up behind me and start honking the horn in frustration. At this point, laughter won out over anger. All of this absurdity due to one idiot who was too lazy to park in the proper parking lot 50 meters down the road.

[Mr. Ludd]

Yes, parking fools that are oblivious to the world around them. Can't count how many times some fool will just stop the car (no attempt to at least get part of the car off the road) on a road and get out. Have also seen them do this at an intersection, and once even park in the middle of the crosswalk.

[pjb]

...why the hell are there so many of them in rural parts? Ruins the beauty of Nature.

If some tool gets his car stuck in a bush or topples into a stream I say f*ck him. Learn to drive better!

[Guru]

...why the hell are there so many of them in rural parts? Ruins the beauty of Nature.

Most of the rural parts of Japan seem so rusty. There is no beauty in there as you need to do some type of maintenance work to keep it beautiful. If I can keep my back yard unattended, with weeds growing, I don't find any beauty in such an unattended natural state.

I guess you cannot expect too much from old folks with one foot in the grave to make it more presentable.

[Hijinx]

I've noticed a distinct class of drivers which I have now termed the "bully drivers." They're exactly like the normal bullies from school, but older and on the road--nothing has changed. I hate these fuocks! They always take the right-of-way, and never slow down for narrow passages. And the Hi Ace vans with the tinted windows always seem to be the biggest as$holes as well as plates with an abundance of 8s. I'm getting even, though, hehehehehehehhehehheh. Beware efftards, damage will be done to your vehicle!

[well_bicyclically]

I've noticed a distinct class of drivers which I have now termed the "bully drivers." They're exactly like the normal bullies from school, but older and on the road--nothing has changed. I hate these fuocks! They always take the right-of-way, and never slow down for narrow passages. And the Hi Ace vans with the tinted windows always seem to be the biggest as$holes as well as plates with an abundance of 8s. I'm getting even, though, hehehehehehehhehehheh. Beware efftards, damage will be done to your vehicle!

I have a new one to add to the group... my home sits at an intersection. one direction is well traveled, but they have stop signs that many ignore. This includes kids on bikes, anyone on a motor scooter, and cars. The other direction has the right of way, but for them, the intersection has no view of the cars coming and going from the left or the right.

The trend NOW is for drivers who have the right of way to toot the horn as they approach the intersection to warn the others that they are taking the right of way.... as they speed through the intersection. lovely noise... at all hours.. most have not figured out that if you cannot see other cars, you probably cannot hear a car horn very well either...

[iago]

I've noticed a distinct class of drivers which I have now termed the "bully drivers." They're exactly like the normal bullies from school, but older and on the road--nothing has changed. I hate these fuocks! They always take the right-of-way, and never slow down for narrow passages. And the Hi Ace vans with the tinted windows always seem to be the biggest as$holes as well as plates with an abundance of 8s. I'm getting even, though, hehehehehehehhehehheh. Beware efftards, damage will be done to your vehicle!

Heh, yes, the 8's -- it's actually kind of useful that the ハ-soles wear a badge to identify themselves...