Incorporating a company / Shinsei bank account

[Soul Auctioneer]

I'm going through the process of starting up a godo kaisha, and one of the requirements is to prove that startup capital has been deposited into a bank account. This is done by submitting photocopies of the front page and inner page of the account's bank book, with the capital deposit shown.

However I set up a Shinsei bank account to hold startup capital, which was a bit daft because they don't actually have a bank book; Everything's online. Is there anybody who's been in the situation before who knows what I can substitute from Shinsei? Will a printout of the online banking statement do? Or maybe there's some kind of bank certificate I can request?

[TMPD]

If i remember correctly, i think they can also can send you a bank statement every month or anytime if you request. This should be enough to prove. Or just try your luck, print it out online.
BTW, did you register your bank account with your company name or under your own name? I went to Shinsei the other fay and ask if i can open a business bank account there but they said no, they said they only do personal banking which really turn me off.

[Soul Auctioneer]

Shinsei do company accounts - I have the application forms. If you're in Tokyo go to the head office in Hibiya; they'll sort you out.

I'll be applying for a Shinsei business account in a couple of weeks, once my company has been incorporated. If you want me to let you know how it goes feel free to PM me.

[Snowshiro]

I set up a kabushiki kaisha a few years ago. There's a certificate of deposit that the bank can issue to prove you have the cash in the account. It's the only thing you need.

[TMPD]

Thank you SoulAutioneer. I'm still working on bits and pieces trying to put things together. Godo Kaisha is what i am trying to do.
Good luck to your journey.

[MasOyama]

I use Shinsei for my corporate account and for private banking.
For private they are fine - no fees from atms at their branches or at 7/11, online banking in English etc. But for corporate banking they are an unbelievable pain in the scrotum.
International transfers can only be done from a branch (maybe even limited to Hibiya) and can only be made in Yen or US dollars.
There is a mountain of paperwork, stamps, verification of stamps and by then the incompetent staff has probably given you the wrong forms so you gotta start all over again.

I'm definitely moving.

[Soul Auctioneer]

I'll take your word for it. Does anyone have a recommendations for a good bank to open a company account with?

By the way, the Legal Bureau said that the printed transaction sheet from my Shinsei online banking was fine. The application's submitted now, so I'll find out in a week or so.

[TMPD]

I use Shinsei for my corporate account and for private banking.
For private they are fine - no fees from atms at their branches or at 7/11, online banking in English etc. But for corporate banking they are an unbelievable pain in the scrotum.
International transfers can only be done from a branch (maybe even limited to Hibiya) and can only be made in Yen or US dollars.
There is a mountain of paperwork, stamps, verification of stamps and by then the incompetent staff has probably given you the wrong forms so you gotta start all over again.

I'm definitely moving.

Hmm... thanks for that, good to know.

[StarfoxPro]

I am also trying to start my own company by obtaining a business investor visa. I have an imigration lawyer who gave me all the requirements. However, He said he is charging me a total of 500,000 yen to register the compnay and process all the paperwork work the visa. Should I pay this to him and let him do it or can I do it myself?

Perhaps I can do one thing myself and let hime do somethings that I can't.

I am a but reluectant to try this on my own because I don't know all the uns and outs of the visa process like he does.

However, I am not enthusiastic about paying 500,000 yen either. Especially when I barely meet the captica requiremetns for the business visa.

Thoughts anyone??

[trip_hop]

I am also trying to start my own company by obtaining a business investor visa. I have an imigration lawyer who gave me all the requirements. However, He said he is charging me a total of 500,000 yen to register the compnay and process all the paperwork work the visa. Should I pay this to him and let him do it or can I do it myself?

Perhaps I can do one thing myself and let hime do somethings that I can't.

I am a but reluectant to try this on my own because I don't know all the uns and outs of the visa process like he does.

However, I am not enthusiastic about paying 500,000 yen either. Especially when I barely meet the captica requiremetns for the business visa.

Thoughts anyone??

How much for an hour of your time?

If you are sure of registering the company, and getting the business visa, then it is good value. However, if you have any doubt that you would qualify, it could be a waste of money, esp. if you are a borderline case.

Cherry-picking items that you can do may also cause problems, as there is a need for continuity in the process.

[MasOyama]

I was charged 250,000 by a scrivener in Kumamoto (I'm in Tokyo) to do all the paperwork to establish my company (I chose him because he speaks some English). For this price I also had his services for one year, if there was anything else I needed, at no extra charge.
This cost did not include visa applications though, for which I have been quoted up to 200,000.
In total not far off what you have been quoted.

[MasOyama]

As far as I know (although I'm sure you know this), there are two main criteria for qualifying for the Business Owner/Investor visa - 2 or more Japanese staff (or permanent or spouse visa holders, etc.) and/or an investment by you in the company of at least \5,000,000.

Am I right in thinking that if you meet either of these criteria you qualify for the visa?
The reason I'm asking is that surely there is no borderline case - you meet these criteria or you don't.

[MasOyama]

I just noticed from another thread that your business would be an English school.
If you do not establish a company but just be self employed through private students you will not have to change your visa type to Business Owner/Visa.
You can stay as you are - presumably Specialist in Humanities/International Services.
Might make live easier, at least until you have saved more money.

[LocalGaijin]

Am I right in thinking that if you meet either of these criteria you qualify for the visa?
The reason I'm asking is that surely there is no borderline case - you meet these criteria or you don't.

No, I'm afraid that thinking isn't correct. It's not nearly as simple as you meet the criteria or you don't... And it is actually much worse than having a "borderline case." You meet all the requirements and then, it is still case by case for approval.

[LocalGaijin]

Does anybody on this forum know of anyone who has gotten a business/investor visa for an English school? Not someone who is married to a Japanese national opening a school... or someone on some other type of visa...

[LocalGaijin]

I found this that you posted some months ago-

"Coming to Japan for a job

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I am coming to Japan on February to search for employment as an English teacher. I know that I will most likely have to seek employment at an Eikawa. I wanted to know where my chances are the greatest of landing a position and where I should look.

I have studied this forum for quite some time now and I know jobs are not easy to get. However, I also know that February and March are prime job hunting times because apparently most of the contracts expire end of March/ April. I know that schools such as Nova, Interact and Gaba have high turn over. However, would any of them sponsor my work visa from a tourist visa? Who, if anyone would sponsor me from a work visa.

Here are my qualifications:

I have a bachelor of Science on Business Administration.
I have about 1 year of teaching experience here in the states.
I know some Japanese ( enough to get myself in trouble! I took 4 semesters of it in college, but it still has a long way to go!)
I have TEFL certificate.
I have been to Japan before. I studied Japanese there for about 6 weeks

What do you all think my chances are?

Please be honest. I want to hear from people who are over there and know the ground conditions.

Any and all constructive feedback is welcomed."

I'm going to make an educated guess and say that your chances of getting a business/investor visa to start an English school are pretty close to zero. I couldn't recommend spending 500,000 yen to do so. What did the immigration lawyer seem to think your chances are? Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[Soul Auctioneer]

Next week, once I've been through the process, I'll be posting a step-by-step guide to incorporating a godo kaisha, along with samples of the documents you'll need. You can do the whole thing yourself for under 70,000 yen, although it'll take you a few days to do. The lawyers I looked at were asking for upwards of 200,000 for incorporation. It's about the same to have a lawyer process your visa application, I think.

Having said that, I don't know very much about the investor visa. Does anyone know if the owner of a godo kaisha is eligible for an investor visa as long as they meet the employee and capital requirements?

I'm actually in the same boat myself. The company is growing gradually and the income is good, but the nature of the business means that I won't have any need to employ two full-time Japanese nationals for a while yet. And I only have a few months left on my current visa. I'm lost as to what to do right now. I believe I can legally operate the business for some time without an investor visa... I heard rumours of some kind of freelance visa for people who are able to support themselves...

[StarfoxPro]

When I spoke to an imigration lawyer (who is in Osaka), he said that if I have the 5000000 Yen in the bank, the employment requirement is flexible. However, employing two people does show more dedication that you will be running the business. If you can show in your business plan that employing full time employees right now is impractical, and you can show from various points of view of how you will continue your business and there is a chance of employing full time people in the future, then it can get approved. I was also told it is recommended that you try to get the school into a separate teaching space to make it clear to immigration that you are running a business.
As you said, everything is on a case by case basis. This is what I was told from the immiration lawyer. he was reccomended to me from the Hyogo International Association. He quoted me 200000 yen to register the business and 300000 yen for the business investor visa including the hearing for the visa.
I was just trying to get the input from you guys.

I hope this information helps those of you who are borderline like me.

[StarfoxPro]

Am I safe to assume that the lawyer will argue on my behalf to obatin the business investor visa?

if so, it may well be worth the money.

[MasOyama]

Soul Auctioneer
I spoke to immigration about this yesterday.
It is possible to get but you become ineligible if you have established a company - you no longer qualify as freelance.
It's possible to operate your own business on a Humanities visa (if that's appropriate for the kind of business you are in) as long as one of the company directors is a Japanese national, spouse of Japanese, etc.
The woman at immigration referred to it as 二人社長. The other 社長　can be in name only and need not receive any payment.

[trip_hop]

I found this that you posted some months ago-

I'm going to make an educated guess and say that your chances of getting a business/investor visa to start an English school are pretty close to zero. I couldn't recommend spending 500,000 yen to do so. What did the immigration lawyer seem to think your chances are? Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

Would have to agree - having read that - school does not qualify as international trade or business, and you need 3 years experience in that business.

Your Immigration counselor might be very well connected, but I suggest at least a second opinion on this. The Hyogo International Association is not Immigration, and like many "International Associations" may not be familiar with the realities of visa categories.

Regsitering a company/ starting a business and obtaining a suitable visa, while interrelated, are independent issues.

[Soul Auctioneer]

Soul Auctioneer
I spoke to immigration about this yesterday.
It's possible to operate your own business on a Humanities visa (if that's appropriate for the kind of business you are in) as long as one of the company directors is a Japanese national, spouse of Japanese, etc.
The woman at immigration referred to it as 二人社長. The other 社長　can be in name only and need not receive any payment.

Thank you very much, MasOyama! That's great news. I'm investigating the humanities visa now.

Can anyone recommend a good lawyer who can help me with obtaining a humanities visa in order to operate my business?

[Snowshiro]

Sorry, wish I'd dropped in here earlier.

I can absolutely concur that you can start a business on a Humanities visa because I did it myself. The conversation with immigration went something like this.

M = Me I = Immigration

M: I want to start a business.
I: This is immigration, you need another building.
M: No, no, you see I want to change my visa.
I: What visa do you have now?
M: Specialist in Humanities and International Services.
I: I see, and what kind of business is it?
M: It's a bar/restaurant.
I: And will any foreigners come to your bar?
M: Yes, I guess a few. Maybe my friends will.
I: And will Japanese people come to the bar?
M: I hope so yes.
I: Sounds pretty international to me. Your visa is fine.

Basically I genuinely believe that they just couldn't be bothered to do the paperwork to change my visa, so they just made an excuse for my visa to be ok. You gotta love Sapporo immigration. They're the country-boys of the Justice Ministry.

[Soul Auctioneer]

Thanks Snowshiro, that's good to know. As I'm currently on a working holiday visa, does anyone know if it's possible to obtain a humanities visa for the purpose of running a company who's business is humanities ... i.e. self-sponsorship?

[trip_hop]

As I'm currently on a working holiday visa, does anyone know if it's possible to obtain a humanities visa for the purpose of running a company who's business is humanities ... i.e. self-sponsorship?

No.

You have to get a regular working visa for a couple of years before you even qualify for "self-sponsorship."

[StarfoxPro]

Soul Auctioneer
I spoke to immigration about this yesterday.
It is possible to get but you become ineligible if you have established a company - you no longer qualify as freelance.
It's possible to operate your own business on a Humanities visa (if that's appropriate for the kind of business you are in) as long as one of the company directors is a Japanese national, spouse of Japanese, etc.
The woman at immigration referred to it as 二人社長. The other 社長　can be in name only and need not receive any payment.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. isn't a working visa to to teach English in Japan a Humanites visa??

Also would running a school qualify as a business that would wanrrent a "humanities visa"?

[StarfoxPro]

I found this that you posted some months ago-




I'm going to make an educated guess and say that your chances of getting a business/investor visa to start an English school are pretty close to zero. I couldn't recommend spending 500,000 yen to do so. What did the immigration lawyer seem to think your chances are? Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

He said that he has never had a case where a business investor visa was rejected. His secretary said he has has much success because of the "difficult conditions" he set. The most difficult one being the money. He siad the emplyment condition is fexible if you can justify it.
I only spoke with them on the phone. He didn't get specific about what my chances are. I would have to go in and talk further with him in person to get a better picture I think.

Another thing that disturbed me a bit. He said that once I get a business investor visa I can't work for my job anymore. I asked them what would happen if my business visa doesn't get approved. he said that "this would be a complicated matter". He has never had this happen though. Please keep in mind that his secretary was translating this to me in English while he spek in Japanese.

However, I asked them if I had to quit my job before the business visa was approved. Does anyone know anything about this or experienced this. I do not want to quit my job in case the vsa doesn't get approved. Does anyone know how this might work??

Also one of you was talking about visa self sponsership. how does this work? Perhaps this is a better option for me. I currently have a visa to work in Japan as an Enligsh teacher. How deso this visa "self sponsorship" work that you all were talking about?

Thanks again!

[MasOyama]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. isn't a working visa to to teach English in Japan a Humanites visa??

Also would running a school qualify as a business that would wanrrent a "humanities visa"?

Teaching English is just one of the activities that comes under Specialist in Humanities and International Services visa.
You could also work in advertising or design, for example.

You cannot self sponsor if you have established a company because in this case you are not a freelancer.
If your business is an English school I see no reason for you to form a company.
Just treat it as a collection of private students and renew your visa by sponsoring yourself.
You will avoid lawyer's fees for setting up the business and applying for the visa on your behalf as well as the annual company tax.

[kurogane]

Teaching English is just one of the activities that comes under Specialist in Humanities and International Services visa.
You could also work in advertising or design, for example..

Surely by now the UN is onto the situation, and they have recategorised Teaching English in Japan under the new visa category of Specialist in Crimes against Humanities??

I'd kill for one of those.

[CBM]

I am also trying to start my own company by obtaining a business investor visa. I have an imigration lawyer who gave me all the requirements. However, He said he is charging me a total of 500,000 yen to register the compnay and process all the paperwork work the visa. Should I pay this to him and let him do it or can I do it myself?

Perhaps I can do one thing myself and let hime do somethings that I can't.

I am a but reluectant to try this on my own because I don't know all the uns and outs of the visa process like he does.

However, I am not enthusiastic about paying 500,000 yen either. Especially when I barely meet the captica requiremetns for the business visa.

Thoughts anyone??

I recommend using the lawyer as a proxy unless you are absolutely sure yo9u can do it properly. ZIts worth the money with the time and headaches you save. 500,000 yen is not much for what youre getting actually. There are stamp fees as well which are part of the K.K. set up. 200,000 if I remember so his service fees are only about half.

[Don Simons]

If you or your family have a company in another country it is easier to register a branch of that company in Japan. Then you could apply for a company employee transfer visa.
But talk to a good bi-lingual legal firm before you do anything it is just not worth the hassle getting private advice.
People I use are:

RIS International
CJ Bldg. 11th Floor 7-4, Nishishimbashi
2-chome, Minato-ku Tokyo 105-0003
Tel 03 5510-5285
www.ris-tokyo.com
They even have an Australian lawyer working there, his name is Luke Bradshaw.

And I don't get any kick backs!
Good luck with your efforts.

[mistersmallbiz]

Next week, once I've been through the process, I'll be posting a step-by-step guide to incorporating a godo kaisha, along with samples of the documents you'll need. You can do the whole thing yourself for under 70,000 yen, although it'll take you a few days to do. The lawyers I looked at were asking for upwards of 200,000 for incorporation. It's about the same to have a lawyer process your visa application, I think.

I wonder how this is going. I might want to register as a Godo Kaisha in the summer. A little under 70k you said? I found a source that shows you can do it for a little over 70k if it's DIY. To compare notes:

http://www.o-bic.net/e/pdf/cost_e.pdf

I don't need to worry about a visa and I want to try to do it without the help of a lawyer/consultant.

Under 'Cost simulations of establishing a business in Japan'- page 10, part 3 for Limited Liability Company: LLC (Godo Kaisha)- The registration expenses come to 71,250 yen. Not including the business 'inkan'

more info from JETRO:

http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/setting_up/

Perhaps if you are a gaijin you can bum some advice from them. Or perhaps the local tax office might give some free advice in Japanese and of course the correct forms. If you go there and say "I want to register a Godo Kaisha" would that help? They tend to give pretty good support I think.

I hope to hear how this is going for you- that is if things are going according to plan. I'll also post anything new on my side. Good luck.

[Soul Auctioneer]

I wonder how this is going. I might want to register as a Godo Kaisha in the summer. A little under 70k you said? I found a source that shows you can do it for a little over 70k if it's DIY.

The registration turned out to be surprisingly easy - once the labyrinthine documentation requirements had been negotiated. I'm still putting together a step-by-step guide and a glossary. What I've got at the moment is up at:
http://yakitoreality.blogspot.com/

I'm also turning my various incorporation documents into generic templates that anyone can use. When I have a chance to finish them I'll post a message. If you want to get started before I've posted then let me know and I'll prepare and them individually as and when you need them.

Having gone through the process I would recommend budgeting 80,000 for incorporation, including the inkan. Bear in mind though that you have to register for corporate tax within a month of incorporation, and I won't be posting any how-to on that one; it's a form-filling nightmare that only an accountant with a strong stomach should have to deal with.

...Having said that, my girlfriend just said she's happy to deal with the entirety of anyone's incorporation and tax registration process for the price of a Gucci handbag (which added to my costs considerably...)

[TMPD]

Excellent stuffs!
Thumbs up for you sir!

[Soul Auctioneer]

Finally got round to posting the document templates for incorporating a godo kaisha. They may also be of some use for kabushiki kaisha, although they would need some modification.

More info on the new thread:
http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=39751

[mistersmallbiz]

Thanks so much! I just have a little Mickey Mouse operation. It's registered with the tax office as a sole proprietorship with blue form (aoi shinkoku) which costs nothing to do. It looks like I won't go for the godo kaisha, at least for now. But I really appreciate all the hard work you put in it.

[trip_hop]

You might find that the articles of incorporation should be printed on A4J paper, slightly different to A4.

Good source of info.

I wonder if you costed it all out, on a "time is money" basis, what the cost would have been?

[Soul Auctioneer]

You might find that the articles of incorporation should be printed on A4J paper, slightly different to A4.

Didn't know that. The legal bureau accepted my A4 articles without any fuss. Having said that I got the impression I could have handed them my articles on a beermat and my application on a toilet roll without them noticing. Must have been something to do with it being just before lunch time.

I wonder if you costed it all out, on a "time is money" basis, what the cost would have been?

At the time I wasn't getting any income, so it's all profit. But it was a long, gruesome process, which is why I produced the guide and templates - anyone following the guide should only need to set aside maybe two days to get everything done, and I reckon even if you paid someone to do as much as possible for you you'd still need to commit most of a day.