neverending homestay

[befreejones]

I have been in Japan now for 10 years. I stayed with a family for 4 weeks back in 1997. Since then I have kept in touch with the family but even thought they are sweet I am having difficulty being assertive with them when they give unwanted advice etc. I can't really cut off from them messily because they live nearby and I will be here for a while longer. How do you be assertive with Japanese people?

[Name Deleted]

I have been in Japan now for 10 years. I stayed with a family for 4 weeks back in 1997. Since then I have kept in touch with the family but even thought they are sweet I am having difficulty being assertive with them when they give unwanted advice etc. I can't really cut off from them messily because they live nearby and I will be here for a while longer. How do you be assertive with Japanese people?

Sometimes people dont know when they are being a nuisance or invading your life. You can be assertive without insulting them and simply thank them for their advice but you will do things your own way. Smile politely and say 'hai wakarimashita' and then do things your own way.

Knowing people for 10 years doesnt give them the right to run your life and tell you what to do. I guess it depends on how strongly you value their friendship. japanese disagree with each other and tell each other where you get off, you simply have to develop some backbone.

[kurogane]

I have been in Japan now for 10 years. I stayed with a family for 4 weeks back in 1997. Since then I have kept in touch with the family but even thought they are sweet I am having difficulty being assertive with them when they give unwanted advice etc. I can't really cut off from them messily because they live nearby and I will be here for a while longer. How do you be assertive with Japanese people?

Hey,

First, nice to hear you have been able to keep in touch for so long. I admire that. I only lasted a few years, and then distance and laziness took its toll.

Second, they are probably Time Stuck, by which I mean they haven't been able to adjust to the fact that you are no longer a Witless Newbie (no offence; we've all been There; except for Fujay, of course ). If you've been here 10 years, you now know how to live your life with some semblance of success, but perhaps they haven't quite adjusted to what should be that rather obvious fact.

Esp. when distance and time are a factor, most people will tend to revert or remain in the mode they remember last. In your case, your host family is probably still thinking of themselves as your parentis in loco.

Third, the willing provision of ample advice whether wanted or not suggests that they genuinely consider you an intimate enough relation of sorts that they do not stand on ceremony and refrain out of politeness. Again, take it as a compliment.

Fourth, to bore you with a probably irrelevant analogy from my own experience, I still get the same sort of crapola from my ex, whom I met after only 2 weeks in Japan, and stayed with for 7 years (now 14 years ago, but anyways). Both being now Much Happier apart than we ever were together, we have stayed in touch over the years.

So, during my most recent stint in Japan, I worked at a national research institute, and jetted around the country doing fieldwork. One of my sites was about 20 mins from my ex's hometown, so I went to visit her and her family for a nice BBQ. So, there we were, fully 18 years after I had first landed as a Witless Newbie, a fully accredited lead researcher for Blah Blah National University on Important Government Research Project, and 84% of the time I spent in her company, I was treated like a larger but stupider version of her admittedly very cute 4 year old.

The point being, the best way to deal with that sort of patronising Bullshit is to do what They do. By far the finest Native Coping mechanism for dealing with this sort of unsolicited patronage is to let it go in one ear and out the other. Smile, pretend to listen, maybe even throw in some of the Ol' Aizuchi, bow a bit, and Ignore It All.

As a note of warning, unless you really want to cut some ties, be careful of using terms like yokei na osewa, or arigata meiwaku. These can be very insulting. I use them all the time with my ex, but that's because a lot of the time she is just pretending to care; she's actually just taking yet another opportunity to be a beetch. Also, I can get away with it without ruining the relationship we have.

Think of it as a Test of Turning Japanese. It can be quite Natively Empowering to take that sort of stuff, and then ignore it and do whatever it is you planned to do anyways. Lord knows that's how a lot of Japanese deal with this sort of thing.

And, as a last comment, never forget that when people are giving you unwanted advice, it doesn't necessarily mean the advice is wrong.

Good luck.

[j-mee]

I find it's easier to listen to the advice, but make your own decisions without feeling guilty. If you make your own decision and they give you flack about it, just say that you took advice from a Japanese friend, co-worker, etc. as well.

They're not doing this to aggravate you, rather they're just trying to be helpful. If you get upset they'll just think of you as ungrateful and stubborn seeing as you are a foreigner in their country, where they are native citizens who have a certain expectation of knowing what to do in any given situation. (Think of it as the way you'd feel if you were giving English grammar advice to someone learning English as a second language and then them second guessing you.)

If it's that big of a problem, give them less opportunity for them to share their unwanted advice. For example, don't communicate or spend time with them as often with the excuse of being busy.

I hate to say it, but in this case flat out honesty is probably not the best policy.

[kurogane]

I find it's easier to listen to the advice, but make your own decisions without feeling guilty. If you make your own decision and they give you flack about it, just say that you took advice from a Japanese friend, co-worker, etc. as well. .

I like what you say, but I would disagree. Since you're a Gurl , that might be Natively Appropriate (I am not being sexist, just Local). If the OP is a man, I would recommend NOT saying you took advice from anyone else, for 2 (Two) reasons:

for one thing, it establishes a social hierarchy of importance in which the person giving the advice accepted is higher on your personal totem pole than the person you are speaking to, and whose advice you did not take (and in fact, rejected); come to think of it, that holds true for both genders in many situations;

second, if there is one really hard and fast rule you can always abide by in situations involving potential social friction and/or excuses for decisions made, or actions taken, it is that Real Men (in a positive construction) do not make excuses for their actions that deflect their own responsibility for the consequences realised. If wrong, they apologise, but they do not dither and minge (as it is seen in a local, admittedly more traditional context).

If right, you get the laurels; if wrong, you takes your lumps.

And, now that I have thought about it for 42 seconds, I propose that as the central moral / ethical principle of Japanese masculinity.

It is the single Litmus Test that separates the Men from the Not So Manly.

They're not doing this to aggravate you, rather they're just trying to be helpful. If you get upset they'll just think of you as ungrateful and stubborn seeing as you are a foreigner in their country, where they are native citizens who have a certain expectation of knowing what to do in any given situation. (Think of it as the way you'd feel if you were giving English grammar advice to someone learning English as a second language and then them second guessing you.) .

I like that part. I forgot to mention that sort of idea. Then again, I hate unsolicited advice.

If it's that big of a problem, give them less opportunity for them to share their unwanted advice. For example, don't communicate or spend time with them as often with the excuse of being busy. .

Sad but true, but in a synthetic mode, if you take the advice of just Politely Ignoring the same, there is no need to resort to this rather drastic measure, doncha think?

I hate to say it, but in this case flat out honesty is probably not the best policy.

You are close, Grasshopper, but you're not there yet.

When you learn not to think "I hate to say it", you will be as the Mee J.



White lies are only hypocritical if you are trapped by the demon weight of the Unitary Self.



BTW, this is great.

J-mee,

If you feel like it, could you run my little Anthropology of Masculinity ideas above by your ___ Loving JMan?

It's always nice to get some feedback.......................

[befreejones]

Thanks so much flying dutchman. kurogane and j-mee for giving me some common sense tips that I can use not just with this situation but in others as well. I thought people would trash this thread but instead i got some really useful advice. I think I'll try the smile say thankyou and go my own way approach.

[kurogane]

Thanks so much flying dutchman. kurogane and j-mee for giving me some common sense tips that I can use not just with this situation but in others as well. I thought people would trash this thread but instead i got some really useful advice. I think I'll try the smile say thankyou and go my own way approach.

So, can we trash this thread now?????????????????




Glad to help, man. I think your choice is the most Native.

Jibun nari ni ganbareba, dare mo monku wo iu kenri ha nai kara da.

Good luck.

[Fujay]

we've all been There; except for Fujay, of course

Exactly. I was born experienced

[kurogane]

Exactly. I was born experienced

I can't quite believe you bothered to respond to that, but you made me laugh and chuckle, and I thank you for that.

Be a good weekend.

[j-mee]

Sad but true, but in a synthetic mode, if you take the advice of just Politely Ignoring the same, there is no need to resort to this rather drastic measure, doncha think?

You are close, Grasshopper, but you're not there yet.

When you learn not to think "I hate to say it", you will be as the Mee J.



White lies are only hypocritical if you are trapped by the demon weight of the Unitary Self.

BTW, this is great.

J-mee,

If you feel like it, could you run my little Anthropology of Masculinity ideas above by your ___ Loving JMan?

It's always nice to get some feedback.......................

I don't encourage such drastic measures, but I thought that perhaps just listening and ignoring must not be working for the OP if he made this post.

I'm one of those people who really hates putting in the effort to come up with white lies and all that if there's the option of honesty without ruffling feathers.

Which post was the Anthropology of Masculinity again? I don't mind. I like to ask him random stuff all the time. He's a great sport; as long as he gets lovin' and a decent meal he's good with just about anything.

[Hijinx]

I could never do a homestay in Japan. The idea of eating so much rice is probably the main reason.

[Thebunnyhauntsme]

I could never do a homestay in Japan. The idea of eating so much rice is probably the main reason.

And they get so offended if you don't take a shower before luxuriating in the tub with some bubble bath and a rubber duck.

I miss my duck.

To the OP, it sounds like you made the best decision in, as Kurogane puts it, "Native" terms. Culturally sensitive and ___-covering at the same time. Can't argue with that. I'm just glad that nobody started rabbiting on about "honne" and "tatemae". That's usually a sign that they've read too many bad novels about Japan...

[Hijinx]

And they get so offended if you don't take a shower before luxuriating in the tub with some bubble bath and a rubber duck.

I miss my duck.

And the farts--they probably get offended by those, too.

[kurogane]

I don't encourage such drastic measures, but I thought that perhaps just listening and ignoring must not be working for the OP if he made this post.

I'm one of those people who really hates putting in the effort to come up with white lies and all that if there's the option of honesty without ruffling feathers. .

Where do you live again???????????

I know what you mean, but a good white lie is like social graces. They're both talents worth cultivation.

Which post was the Anthropology of Masculinity again? I don't mind. I like to ask him random stuff all the time. He's a great sport; as long as he gets lovin' and a decent meal he's good with just about anything.

See below. Review and respond Its always good to get some Native Voice.

BTW, I remembered the principle as expounded by my ex:

Otoko ha "datte" to iuwanai no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mee
I find it's easier to listen to the advice, but make your own decisions without feeling guilty. If you make your own decision and they give you flack about it, just say that you took advice from a Japanese friend, co-worker, etc. as well. .


I like what you say, but I would disagree. Since you're a Gurl , that might be Natively Appropriate (I am not being sexist, just Local). If the OP is a man, I would recommend NOT saying you took advice from anyone else, for 2 (Two) reasons:

for one thing, it establishes a social hierarchy of importance in which the person giving the advice accepted is higher on your personal totem pole than the person you are speaking to, and whose advice you did not take (and in fact, rejected); come to think of it, that holds true for both genders in many situations;

second, if there is one really hard and fast rule you can always abide by in situations involving potential social friction and/or excuses for decisions made, or actions taken, it is that Real Men (in a positive construction) do not make excuses for their actions that deflect their own responsibility for the consequences realised. If wrong, they apologise, but they do not dither and minge (as it is seen in a local, admittedly more traditional context).

If right, you get the laurels; if wrong, you takes your lumps.

And, now that I have thought about it for 42 seconds, I propose that as the central moral / ethical principle of Japanese masculinity.

It is the single Litmus Test that separates the Men from the Not So Manly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mee
They're not doing this to aggravate you, rather they're just trying to be helpful. If you get upset they'll just think of you as ungrateful and stubborn seeing as you are a foreigner in their country, where they are native citizens who have a certain expectation of knowing what to do in any given situation. (Think of it as the way you'd feel if you were giving English grammar advice to someone learning English as a second language and then them second guessing you.) .


I like that part. I forgot to mention that sort of idea. Then again, I hate unsolicited advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mee
If it's that big of a problem, give them less opportunity for them to share their unwanted advice. For example, don't communicate or spend time with them as often with the excuse of being busy. .


Sad but true, but in a synthetic mode, if you take the advice of just Politely Ignoring the same, there is no need to resort to this rather drastic measure, doncha think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mee
I hate to say it, but in this case flat out honesty is probably not the best policy.


You are close, Grasshopper, but you're not there yet.

When you learn not to think "I hate to say it", you will be as the Mee J.



White lies are only hypocritical if you are trapped by the demon weight of the Unitary Self.



BTW, this is great.

J-mee,

If you feel like it, could you run my little Anthropology of Masculinity ideas above by your ___ Loving JMan?

It's always nice to get some feedback.......................

[j-mee]

Where do you live again???????????

I know what you mean, but a good white lie is like social graces. They're both talents worth cultivation.



See below. Review and respond Its always good to get some Native Voice.

BTW, I remembered the principle as expounded by my ex:

I like what you say, but I would disagree. Since you're a Gurl , that might be Natively Appropriate (I am not being sexist, just Local). If the OP is a man, I would recommend NOT saying you took advice from anyone else, for 2 (Two) reasons:

for one thing, it establishes a social hierarchy of importance in which the person giving the advice accepted is higher on your personal totem pole than the person you are speaking to, and whose advice you did not take (and in fact, rejected); come to think of it, that holds true for both genders in many situations;

second, if there is one really hard and fast rule you can always abide by in situations involving potential social friction and/or excuses for decisions made, or actions taken, it is that Real Men (in a positive construction) do not make excuses for their actions that deflect their own responsibility for the consequences realised. If wrong, they apologise, but they do not dither and minge (as it is seen in a local, admittedly more traditional context).

If right, you get the laurels; if wrong, you takes your lumps.

And, now that I have thought about it for 42 seconds, I propose that as the central moral / ethical principle of Japanese masculinity.

It is the single Litmus Test that separates the Men from the Not So Manly.

J-mee,

If you feel like it, could you run my little Anthropology of Masculinity ideas above by your ___ Loving JMan?

It's always nice to get some feedback.......................

Right now I'm in the U.S. waiting for a certificate of eligibility that's taking forever to get processed. I'll be moving to Shizuoka, though.

Okay, I'll ask him about this next time I call him. Should be interesting!

[.銕.]

Right now I'm in the U.S. waiting for a certificate of eligibility that's taking forever to get processed. I'll be moving to Shizuoka, though.

Okay, I'll ask him about this next time I call him. Should be interesting!

Cool.

BTW, new username.

I was bad again.

Good luck with all da paperwork

[cutyourhair]

How do you be assertive with Japanese people?

What nationality are you?!?!?

Geez, this isn't the US or China. Just tell it to them straight and they will deal (ie give you bad vibes for awhile but eventually get over it.)

[.銕.]

What nationality are you?!?!?

Geez, this isn't the US or China. Just tell it to them straight and they will deal (ie give you bad vibes for awhile but eventually get over it.)

That's splendidly crappy advice.

OP,

ignore that, listen to what was said above.

[caramellocap]

They don't realise it but they are acting out all the neuroses of living in a mind everybody's business society and do what we tell you society.

I knew some really decent Japanese people and I knew some who were fine until they decided to act out all their tension and stresses of all the unreasonable demands placed on them by in turn deciding to exercise their own demands on others.

It can be extremely frustrating to be on the receiving end of this behaviour. In the case of the op I give her old homestay family credit for being genuinely concerned for her as a 'guest of Japan' and former guest of theirs, but nonetheless they're still playing out a version of the Japanese power games that go on.

It can be very difficult to assert yourself in these kinds of situations. It's easy to be blunt or to be seen as blunt if you don't care about the people and there's no real connection there. In the case of the op there obviously is a connection.

I found using the isogashii excuse worked like a charm. The time period of non assertiveness is interesting - I think you humoured them too much and didn't use polite assertiveness when you needed to in the past. Hence the controlling behaviour. I'd start being politely distant unless you want them turning up on your doorstep in your home country in the future for a homestay.