J House prices

[jj-peasuke]

Rent....don't buy. Even if your kids like the space. Don't let greed get the better of you.

Having friends that are now experiencing the bubble blast back in Spain (and believe it, it has been quite something down there...), I would suggest to rent rather than buy for a while. Crisis means low pruchasing prices, along with low renting prices... You can take advantage of the second too. And in 1-2 years, when everything gets better (hopefully), then buy a house/apartment/condo whatever...

In any case, even though renting may be more expensive, I do agree with some people here: for short/mid term stays (let:s say, less than 10 years) I don:t think it pays off to buy a place.

I guess this whole post is a pretty personal opinion.

Cheers,
JJ

[countryboy]

Is that with auctioned mansions, is that you can very well pick one up for a song, but the monthly maintenance fee charged (and is the reason for most foreclosures on mansions) will cost almost as much or even more than rent for a comparable property which you don't own and don't have the responsibility for. It's great if you can get renters who pay far more than the fee, but that is the exception.

What that monthy maintainance fee actually goes for, is for the pension of some old fart who does nothing but occupy a seat in the entranceway of the place when he feels like it, and a free place to live, who does nothing but boss the occupants around at will for nothing more than the privelege of selling his land to some developement company.

Find a place with an alternative arraingement like a security company that eliminates the squatters and it may be well worth it.

[steeny]

I'd never buy a house on the regular market while one can get the exact same thing for a quarter or eighth of the cost.

I think an eighth of the cost is a bit of a stretch.

[Edokko]

3. You will be able to take a tax deduction for interest on your home loan.

Not in Japan. The deduction you're thinking of is based on a percentage of outstanding principal in Japan. It never ceases to amaze me how few people know the U.S. is one of the only countries in the world that permits a deduction based on mortgage interest (not necessarily a wise policy in my view).

[too_far_tokyo]

Not in Japan. The deduction you're thinking of is based on a percentage of outstanding principal in Japan. It never ceases to amaze me how few people know the U.S. is one of the only countries in the world that permits a deduction based on mortgage interest (not necessarily a wise policy in my view).

I am a home owner in Australia and would love to have a system such as this. Mr Rudd, did you read this? I want to claim my interest payments. About 15,000 AUD would be a lovely to claim back in tax each year. :-)

[InitialD]

Thanks for very usful info.

The flat I was talking about in the OP has been reduced even more.

But I am not so interested in owning a flat because of the thought of paying charges every month about the same as renting a city flat.


But in the future the thought of buying a house at auction (maybe a repo) still sounds better than renting, as long as the price is right. I also want parking spaces to rent out and use part of it for an English school.

[Billy]

But in the future the thought of buying a house at auction (maybe a repo) still sounds better than renting, as long as the price is right.

I agree, but it all depends on how long you want to live in Japan and how much the cost of the house is. As explained, housing prices drop in Japan but the cost of the land, in my area at least, has remained fairly stable.

I bought a house (in cash) and have been living in it for a number of years. Initially, I was renting with my wife in an apartment and if you add up the rent we haved saved (minus the once yearly land tax) it is already about half the cost of what we paid for the house. Plus, we still have the asset (the house and land) in our possession.

I wouldn't advise buying a house if you were going to live in Japan for only a few years.

[thenoie]

sounds like there is a sh1t load of wood in the place, im sure you can fine some to knock on.

[Billy]

sounds like there is a sh1t load of wood in the place, im sure you can fine some to knock on.

On the floors at least ......

Seriously, buying a house as an investment in Japan or hoping it will appreciate is a bad way to go. That won't happen in Japan that's why the best choice for most people is to rent while in Japan.

As another poster suggested, you'd have to stay in Japan a minimum of 10 years to make buying a house worthwhile. You've also got to understand that in many (most?) cases the land is more valuble than the house. In my area, there have been some houses sold and the first thing the new owners did was to knock down the old house and build a new one.

In my case, I bought the house at nearly a quarter of the initial price paid for it because the owner was in some financial difficulty. The land itself is worth more than what I paid for it.

[Rock_Howard]

ok I read the coments but one question...

how can you get a loan for a house? I have heard that for foreigners thats absolutely imposible.

I could be interested in getting one

[steeny]

Property is ridiculously expensive all over Japan[/url]

I also live in the 80's and am shocked by the price of watermelons.

[InitialD]

I am wondering if prices will bottom out soon?

I have seen huge reductions in asking prices and am tempted to buy.

Even older houses as long as near a station. I would like to rent out car parking spaces and turn 1 room into a classroom.

By the way is it ok to have a wood burner?

[karamatsu]

Wood burner - possibly depends on how close your neighbours are and how their houses are clad. In inaka, pretty much anyone can have them. None of that EPA clean burn nonsense either. Fit an old-fashioned mega-polluter if you like, such as a daruma stove. You can fit it yourself and you don't even need a chimney higher than your own building.

If you don't buy a repo place, another smart way to buy property in Japan is to put a business in whatever you build and write it and the contents off against tax. Office, English school, music school, yoga center, cafe (three sinks plus handbasin in the kitchen), minshuku, ...., whatever you can wangle. There is no rule saying you actually have to try and get customers.

[jinseinosensei]

I think an eighth of the cost is a bit of a stretch.

Think all you want... It won't make my math any less accurate. I've purchased a home at auction and LOST it to the courts. I pay attention and the numbers are the numbers. Unless you've only recently started paying attention, the prices on some decent properties HAVE dropped to less than an eighth of their original selling prices. Naturally, if you are only looking at certain properties in certain areas, your samples could be very different from national or area averages. Considering that I've seen houses auctioned off for a 20th of their original selling prices, the "one fourth to one eighth" figure I submitted is plenty short of being "stretch".

[Gaijin 06]

Considering that I've seen houses auctioned off for a 20th of their original selling prices, the "one fourth to one eighth" figure I submitted is plenty short of being "stretch".

Load of crap Scotty boy.

[jinseinosensei]

Thanks. It was a lesson learned for us, albeit a very very hard one. Even very high quality, a great price, a decent location in a relatively rich city, and a relative deal from the bank--10 year mortgage locked at 2%, has still meant that we are either going to have to ride out the economic storm here tied to a house that--although is beautiful and is well within our budget--will likely never be anything but an albatross tied round our necks.

I'd give anything for our old stress free apartment, lack of space and all.

The only redemption COULD come with our decision to turn the house into a business-it was built originally with that in mind. If it was a regular house without a parking lot for six cars and a huge living room with built-in seating for 10-12 people (don't ask, just imagine), I'd be even more down about it. We may be able to turn things around by the fact that this house was designed as a showroom for the former owner's interior decoration business. It would make an excellent English school. Knock on wood.

I don't see how your choice was a bad one... Unless you never intended to keep the place as a home. Any purchase made as strictly a profit-turning transaction is risky and unwise, but it seems to me that you got a decent residence and if you consider what rent would have cost you during the time you've lived there, you are probably still in a position to break even or benefit in the end. In addition... It's unlikely you will be OUT money on the investment. If the place is nearly as comfortable as you've described, I'd suggest a counting of the blessings.

[jinseinosensei]

Load of crap Scotty boy.

I'm more than happy to welcome a hefty wager on it. When can you visit and check out the proof...? Don't waste my time with some paltry sum of cash either. Put your money where your big mouth is, for a change.

[Gaijin 06]

I'm more than happy to welcome a hefty wager on it. When can you visit and check out the proof...? Don't waste my time with some paltry sum of cash either. Put your money where your big mouth is, for a change.

I don't need to visit you to hear your insane arguments trying to justify your ludicrous opinions - I can get enough of that on GP.

Also, I suspect our views on "palty sums of cash" might be slightly different too. We're not all unemployed/unemployable broken down ex-English teachers! I wouldn't trust you to make good on any bet I would care to make - from your posts here it is clear you are a dishonourable liar, without even mentioning your msygonist views or abhorrent personality.

[InitialD]

Wood burner - possibly depends on how close your neighbours are and how their houses are clad. In inaka, pretty much anyone can have them. None of that EPA clean burn nonsense either. Fit an old-fashioned mega-polluter if you like, such as a daruma stove. You can fit it yourself and you don't even need a chimney higher than your own building.

If you don't buy a repo place, another smart way to buy property in Japan is to put a business in whatever you build and write it and the contents off against tax. Office, English school, music school, yoga center, cafe (three sinks plus handbasin in the kitchen), minshuku, ...., whatever you can wangle. There is no rule saying you actually have to try and get customers.

Thanks Karamatsu very useful post. I am pleased the weather is getting warmer now because we were spending a fortune on heating last several months. My place I live in now has no insulation and I definitely dont want to be here next winter.

I have even been looking at some brand new houses for about 15 million yen, very near the monrail. My wife obviously loves the new ones better than some old places we looked at. Im still not impressed with the insulation though, I think I could put a wood burner in for the winter I have lots of woods a short drive away. Not sure what the law is about chopping trees down, but certainly I could bring back trees `already fallen down`.

I like what you say about expenses against the tax. I have a few private students already and want to get more so will definitely use the house for business. (Once we finally choose the house we are going to buy). Do you need an accountant or is it easy enough to do yourself? I am like many on here the J wife does ALL the paper work and gives me an allowance of go sen yen a week. I have no idea about sorting out the paper work at the end of the tax year.

I should start learning about things really we have been here long enough.

Can someone tell me how the land tax is worked out once you own a house? Does it depend on area and size of land? How can I find out how much it will be before I buy my house? Any examples please?

[RDB]

Think all you want... It won't make my math any less accurate. I've purchased a home at auction and LOST it to the courts. I pay attention and the numbers are the numbers. Unless you've only recently started paying attention, the prices on some decent properties HAVE dropped to less than an eighth of their original selling prices. Naturally, if you are only looking at certain properties in certain areas, your samples could be very different from national or area averages. Considering that I've seen houses auctioned off for a 20th of their original selling prices, the "one fourth to one eighth" figure I submitted is plenty short of being "stretch".

jinseinosensei can you post a link?

I am very interested if anyone has got some good links for the best auction sites.

In the UK there is just one website that covers all (well most) houses private or auction, its rightmove.com is there a similar website for the J market?

[InitialD]

I was thinking about buying this ebook, does anyone know about this guy?

http://foreclosured.blogspot.com/200...-in-world.html

Has anyone else got any good links for property auctions?

[Gaijin 06]

I was thinking about buying this ebook, does anyone know about this guy?

http://foreclosured.blogspot.com/200...-in-world.html

Yes, he posts on here as Shougani. Personally I think he is an idiot and wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

[Majestic]

Can someone tell me how the land tax is worked out once you own a house? Does it depend on area and size of land? How can I find out how much it will be before I buy my house? Any examples please?

The fixed asset tax (aka "land tax") is calculated at 1.4% of the assessed value of the land, and 1.4% of the value of the physical building. The city assesses the values once every three years. Note the assessed value is different from the price one pays for the property. Usually the assessed value is much, much less than the price paid. In addition there is a "town planning tax" that is also levied once a year, and is based on 0.3% of the assessed value of land + property.

Maj

*Note that the assessed value used to calculate fixed asset tax may be reduced if the house meets special conditions. For a general outline of the fixed asset tax in English, Osaka city has some basic info http://www.zaisei.city.osaka.jp/publ...teishisan.html

[haggydoggy]

I'm curious to the area that Jin scored his property in. I can't imagine that it is located close to a metropolitan area but I may be wrong. So Jin will have to spill the beans as to how to get the information of these auctions.

[InitialD]

The fixed asset tax (aka "land tax") is calculated at 1.4% of the assessed value of the land, and 1.4% of the value of the physical building. The city assesses the values once every three years. Note the assessed value is different from the price one pays for the property. Usually the assessed value is much, much less than the price paid. In addition there is a "town planning tax" that is also levied once a year, and is based on 0.3% of the assessed value of land + property.

Maj

*Note that the assessed value used to calculate fixed asset tax may be reduced if the house meets special conditions. For a general outline of the fixed asset tax in English, Osaka city has some basic info http://www.zaisei.city.osaka.jp/publ...teishisan.html

Thanks again Majestic. Thats not so bad.

So really then just the 2 tax`s every year. Maintance as well of course but I can keep on top of that no probs.

Any other charges you have to think about?

[karamatsu]

If you have a woodburner, the fire brigade might be a bit more eager to see if the place is fireproof if you need licencing to run your phantom cafe or minshuku. Fireproof can mean double layers for the plasterboard/sheet rock, no wood on the walls or ceiling, that kind of thing. Getting a new build through that kind of licencing can be a nightmare since bureaucrats will pour over the plans and use arcane calculations for smoke venting etc. They are far more strict than the fire brigade will be when they look at an actual building.

Offcuts and scrap wood from carpenters is great fuel for woodburners. Its bone dry and chopped up already, a real boon if you don't have a lot of space for doing such things. Many of them will be glad for someone to take it away.

Changing to wasDouglas, but I think Jin is right (!) It sounds like you've got a nice place, so enjoy it if you can. Millions of Japanese people have to live with their building depreciating. At least you've got a nice one for what sounds like a good price. If you apply financial criteria to everything, noone would buy anything that would enhance their life and simply stash all their money away for old age, assuming they live long enough to see it. Financially, a leather sofa is a disaster compared to a leatherette one from Nitori, but I know which one I'd like to sit on.

[Gaijin 06]

Changing to wasDouglas, but I think Jin is right (!) It sounds like you've got a nice place, so enjoy it if you can. Millions of Japanese people have to live with their building depreciating. At least you've got a nice one for what sounds like a good price. If you apply financial criteria to everything, noone would buy anything that would enhance their life and simply stash all their money away for old age, assuming they live long enough to see it.

I think the point he was making was that he could have rented a similar place with far less hassle, and for less overall money.

[RDB]

Prices are falling, to buy something like this so cheap is better than renting. If its an old place like this it wont depreciate any more.

http://kankocho-athome.jp/bukkenDeta...01_0_12_null_0

I mean how can you get cheaper than 3mil for a place like this. Why rent when you can own for the price of a few yrs rent.

[steeny]

I've purchased a home at auction and LOST it to the courts.

Love to hear the story.

I pay attention and the numbers are the numbers.

I prefer to differentiate between meaningless and meaningful numbers, but to each his own.

Unless you've only recently started paying attention, the prices on some decent properties HAVE dropped to less than an eighth of their original selling prices.

Ah, here is my mistake.
When you said you could get the exact same thing at 1/8 the cost.
Now you are talking about 1/8 of the ORIGINAL cost. In that case I don't disagree. But it is not the "exact same thing."

Not trying to argue with you, court houses can be dirt cheap. But you can't call a 30 year old house and a brand new house the exact same thing here.

[steeny]

Has anyone else got any good links for property auctions?

http://www.athome.co.jp (2 posts above) covers the widest area, and also cover regular listings, but not much depth, Japanese only
http://www.foreclosedjapan.com covers many areas but erratic, English, need to signup to get better info

[jinseinosensei]

Prices are falling, to buy something like this so cheap is better than renting. If its an old place like this it wont depreciate any more.

http://kankocho-athome.jp/bukkenDeta...01_0_12_null_0

I mean how can you get cheaper than 3mil for a place like this. Why rent when you can own for the price of a few yrs rent.

Exactly...!

And for those of you who are looking for auctions..., just check out the latest listings at your local courthouse. I'm no expert and don't claim to be. I just know that the properties are more abundant and less expensive than I've ever seen them. I got my house, a 3LDK with a small yard and multiple parking spaces, within a two-minute walk of the post office, JA, jhs, elementary school, and pre-school, for 4.8 million yen back in 2001. I lost the same house to the courts last year due to a long, hard bout with a bacterial infection, a handicapped kid, and high medical expenses for both. The thing went on the block for 6.9 million and sold for 3 million. The next door neighbor bought and demolished it. The building was in great shape and had lots of life left in it. It's now their bonsai garden and parking space. My creditors were foolish to take the property when they could have gotten 14% interest on the full amount of my debt and the entire repayment within the next couple of years. Live and learn..., foreclose and burn. Suckers.

[steeny]

Can someone tell me how the land tax is worked out once you own a house? Does it depend on area and size of land? How can I find out how much it will be before I buy my house?

1. See majestic.
2. And land type
3. Ask the agent

[steeny]

Exactly...!

And for those of you who are looking for auctions..., just check out the latest listings at your local courthouse. I'm no expert and don't claim to be. I just know that the properties are more abundant and less expensive than I've ever seen them. I got my house, a 3LDK with a small yard and multiple parking spaces, within a two-minute walk of the post office, JA, jhs, elementary school, and pre-school, for 4.8 million yen back in 2001. I lost the same house to the courts last year due to a long, hard bout with a bacterial infection, a handicapped kid, and high medical expenses for both. The thing went on the block for 6.9 million and sold for 3 million. The next door neighbor bought and demolished it. The building was in great shape and had lots of life left in it. It's now their bonsai garden and parking space. My creditors were foolish to take the property when they could have gotten 14% interest on the full amount of my debt and the entire repayment within the next couple of years. Live and learn..., foreclose and burn. Suckers.

That really sucks, very sorry to hear it.

[jinseinosensei]

Love to hear the story.

I prefer to differentiate between meaningless and meaningful numbers, but to each his own.

Ah, here is my mistake.
When you said you could get the exact same thing at 1/8 the cost.
Now you are talking about 1/8 of the ORIGINAL cost. In that case I don't disagree. But it is not the "exact same thing."

Not trying to argue with you, court houses can be dirt cheap. But you can't call a 30 year old house and a brand new house the exact same thing here.

If not the original cost..., what would one compare with...? I'm actually talking about 15-20 year old homes, but if the thing is built well, situated for longevity, and located conveniently..., what's the problem...? After all..., the thread isn't about purchases of new homes versus old ones. It's about purchasing through realtors versus through the courts. At least it seems so to me. I'm bewildered at the frequency and degree to which many here seem to NEED to put words into my mouth.

[jinseinosensei]

I don't need to visit you to hear your insane arguments trying to justify your ludicrous opinions - I can get enough of that on GP.

Also, I suspect our views on "palty sums of cash" might be slightly different too. We're not all unemployed/unemployable broken down ex-English teachers! I wouldn't trust you to make good on any bet I would care to make - from your posts here it is clear you are a dishonourable liar, without even mentioning your msygonist views or abhorrent personality.

One need not be wealthy to know the value of money. I'm offering you a chance to put your money where your big mouth is. Why not take me up on it and prove me to be that which you paint me to be...? Seems like the perfect opportunity for you to finally take me down, eh...? Of course, you won't because it's not the fact or figures with which you disagree, but your mere hatred of me that brings you running to respond to my each and every post.

[steeny]

If not the original cost..., what would one compare with...?

One would compare a court house that is 20 years old with a used house that is not foreclosed (sold through an agent) that is 20 years old.
In which case it is closer to the exact same thing but through different means. You won't get it for 1/8 this way, 50% or more off is more likely. But 1/8th is a bit of a stretch.

[jinseinosensei]

That really sucks, very sorry to hear it.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm fine now. My leg is recovering well, my son is doing much better, and I'm working on new projects that will put me back where I was or better. It's slow going but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and I'm catching glimpses of it. Thanks.

[jinseinosensei]

One would compare a court house that is 20 years old with a used house that is not foreclosed (sold through an agent) that is 20 years old.
In which case it is closer to the exact same thing but through different means. You won't get it for 1/8 this way, 50% or more off is more likely. But 1/8th is a bit of a stretch.

I think our difference of opinion is more of a difference of geography etc... I live west of Tokyo and a fair bus ride from the nearest train stations. One needs to own and drive a car to live here. I've heard enough things about properties in the municipalities of Sagamihara and Machida hitting similar lows though. I've been assuming that the purchase of residences being discussed here aren't the stuff of Aoyama, Omotesando, etc... I could be wrong though. I'm talking about Kanagawa and wouldn't pretend to know much about Tohkyoh or Ohsaka. I'm quite confident regarding the local foreclosures. Confident enough that if G06 had a tenth of my integrity he'd be owing me big bet money about now.

[Gaijin 06]

I'm quite confident regarding the local foreclosures. Confident enough that if G06 had a tenth of my integrity he'd be owing me big bet money about now.

Your poor English skills masked what were really trying to say. Steeny had the perseverance to follow up and find out exactly what you meant - which was nothing like what you originally posted. Personally, I can't be arsed arguing in detail with you any more, simply a waste of time.

One needs to compare apples with apples Scotty-boy, not apples with oranges.

Scotty in "20 year old foreclosed homes are much cheaper than new homes from a developer" news shocker, lmfao.

[jinseinosensei]

Your poor English skills masked what were really trying to say. Steeny had the perseverance to follow up and find out exactly what you meant - which was nothing like what you originally posted. Personally, I can't be arsed arguing in detail with you any more, simply a waste of time.

One needs to compare apples with apples Scotty-boy, not apples with oranges.

Scotty in "20 year old foreclosed homes are much cheaper than new homes from a developer" news shocker, lmfao.

No.

From the beginning I've been talking about 15-20 year old homes, comparing only the advantages of BUYING over renting and buying through AUCTION as opposed to a realtor. It isn't rocket science but I forgive you anyway. Whether it was clear or not isn't a factor as I've explained it more than once now. I'm sure that anyone reading our exchanges can figure out that you're simply being combative to satisfy your obsession with me. It must be torturous to spend every waking moment seething over my mere existence and the fact that we share the same air. Poor guy...