To marry or not?

[KansaiBen]

OP on a related note I also see your girlfriend indulging in 'amae' which is probably an alien concept in Australia and to you and has you baffled over her behavior once she is back in Japan and behaves like a spoilt kid with no regard for your feelings. Amae is a sense of self indulgence where she acts like a child and relies on you 'forgiving her behavior in the same way that a child gets away with murder but will still be loved by her parents.

Some of it is cultural IMO and behavior that you find difficult to reconcile with what you saw in Australia. Maybe its that she is just being herself in Japan, it was in Australia that she changed and you cant handle seeing the real person she has become.

More info on amae here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amae

[Pancake]

Slow down Cowboy. It sounds like your dilemma is not centered around whether or not you should get married, rather whether or not you can sustain your current relationship. Your are being pulled in different directions here. The parents are pulling you in one direction, your ________ is being pulled in another, and your girlfriend is pulling you into a direction of responsibility. All of these directions are probably foreign to you as you lived quite a different life back in Aussieland. EVERYONE must negotiate and take responsibility for the directions they proceed in and so the question really is not what should I do, but can I live with and take responsibility for this particular decision. The rationale of hopefully things will work out if this happens is far fetched. 8 years ago, I was presented with a similar situation where I couldn't admit to myself that I wasn't ready for marriage. I thought I loved a girl, but when distance was created between us, I was pulled into the direction of a really hot girl which ended up being great but super short and I ended up losing both in the end. At the time, I needed the thrill and rush of a young vibrant woman and that trumped the need to for me to be in a comfortable long-term relationship. And so after I got over the disappointment of losing both, I thought to myself, thank god we didn't get married because obviously I wasn't ready and it would likely ended up in divorce anyway. And so the moral of the story is that you can't have everything but remember that what you do have is TIME. So my only advice to you would be to slow down, talk, and think about what marriage is really all about for you, her, and them. There is no shame in not being ready, only shame in pretending to be.

Thank you this was probably the best response so far and has described how im feeling almost 100%.

[Pancake]

OP on a related note I also see your girlfriend indulging in 'amae' which is probably an alien concept in Australia and to you and has you baffled over her behavior once she is back in Japan and behaves like a spoilt kid with no regard for your feelings. Amae is a sense of self indulgence where she acts like a child and relies on you 'forgiving her behavior in the same way that a child gets away with murder but will still be loved by her parents.

Some of it is cultural IMO and behavior that you find difficult to reconcile with what you saw in Australia. Maybe its that she is just being herself in Japan, it was in Australia that she changed and you cant handle seeing the real person she has become.

More info on amae here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amae

Yeah something like this...
She is henpecking me over everything, She does have faults and i can see she is trying to change them but she keeps telling me it will take time for her to change yet expects me to change overnight.
Im sure she does love me and I think she is doing all the nagging cos she thinks that its whats best for me here to fit in and also cos its what she wants me to do.
She even said to me one night straight out "I need to make you more Japanese" and another comment was "I need to fix you".
She comes home drunk and acting all emo to me and childish.... but then she turns around and next sentence talks to her mum and sister while drunk she acts normal and that really pisses me off.

[it's me]

Slow down Cowboy. It sounds like your dilemma is not centered around whether or not you should get married, rather whether or not you can sustain your current relationship. Your are being pulled in different directions here. The parents are pulling you in one direction, your ________ is being pulled in another, and your girlfriend is pulling you into a direction of responsibility. All of these directions are probably foreign to you as you lived quite a different life back in Aussieland. EVERYONE must negotiate and take responsibility for the directions they proceed in and so the question really is not what should I do, but can I live with and take responsibility for this particular decision. The rationale of hopefully things will work out if this happens is far fetched. 8 years ago, I was presented with a similar situation where I couldn't admit to myself that I wasn't ready for marriage. I thought I loved a girl, but when distance was created between us, I was pulled into the direction of a really hot girl which ended up being great but super short and I ended up losing both in the end. At the time, I needed the thrill and rush of a young vibrant woman and that trumped the need to for me to be in a comfortable long-term relationship. And so after I got over the disappointment of losing both, I thought to myself, thank god we didn't get married because obviously I wasn't ready and it would likely ended up in divorce anyway. And so the moral of the story is that you can't have everything but remember that what you do have is TIME. So my only advice to you would be to slow down, talk, and think about what marriage is really all about for you, her, and them. There is no shame in not being ready, only shame in pretending to be.

I think this about sums it up.

good luck OP

[kushikatsu anyone?]

"I need to make you more Japanese" and another comment was "I need to fix you".

Something just dawned on me, and shouldn't be ruled out. Maybe some of this is just a communication/grammar problem, and she needs to work on complete sentences.

"I need to make you more Japanese" -> "I need to make you more Japanese traditional dinners"

"I need to fix you" -> "I need to fix you bigger breakfasts from now on."


So don't worry about it.

[KansaiBen]

YShe comes home drunk and acting all emo to me and childish.... but then she turns around and next sentence talks to her mum and sister while drunk she acts normal and that really pisses me off.

Marriage is not about changing people. Its not about turning them into something that fits ones ideal of what is a perfect spouse. These things need to be worked out before you tie the knot. Marriage is about loving and accepting the person for who they are and it sounds like your girlfriend wants you to become someone else.

Marriage is about accepting and loving a person unconditionally and not 'I'll love you more/ sleep with you more if you do this or dont do this..' You can change annoying habits but what it sounds like is wanting to change your personality itself as she doesnt think you can adapt to living here.

Im 45 was married for 15 years and Im pretty set in my ways. Its not about being stubborn but about being true to yourself as a person.

If you change you are not being yourself but your gf doesnt like the current you.

My wife told me that i need to speak keigo and polite language to her parents because this was Japan but she spent years treating me like a doormat even though it was me that was supporting her. She thought she had all the answers when it came to raising kids and how to live life but totally ignored any contradictions when i pointed them out to her, and there were many. I was not allowed to criticise her family's behavior as they were off-limits and she saw it as a personal affront. No holds barred on my own mother though.


You have to realise that once you marry and have kids you will be footing the bills and supporting her, yet shes henpecking you into submission and making you feel worthless. Things will get worse before they get better and you will end up hating her and talking about loving her deep down is a copout to yourself and her.


You can not be more Japanese and more than you can dye your hair black and melting into the wallpaper. You will be a gaijin, no one expects you to adopt the oriental mantle of Wa, though you dont have to behave like a clueless guy just off the boat on spring break you can at least learn to fit in and adapt. Do in Rome as the Romans do- doesnt mean having to wear a toga and speak Latin, though. She wants you to become her image of what a Japanese guy would be like (in a white boyfriends skin) as it makes her more comfortable but its like asking a leopard to change its spots.

[Ken44]

She comes home drunk and acting all emo to me and childish....

Great. And how often does this happen?

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

She even said to me one night straight out "I need to make you more Japanese" and another comment was "I need to fix you".
She comes home drunk and acting all emo to me and childish.... but then she turns around and next sentence talks to her mum and sister while drunk she acts normal and that really pisses me off.

My god man...

Here's an escape plan for you: Pack your bags, open the front door, leave.

[Marius_II]

My god man...

Well yeah.

Still, I'd give him the benefit of doubt. The drunk switch CAN be a good tactic:
It could be a way to get something off her chest (who wouldn't want that). Sobering up in front of her parents is something we've all done at that age. Wouldn't rule it she's doing it to ____ anyone off.

We'll never know. Or will we?

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

We'll never know. Or will we?

I sure hope to all that is evil and entertaining that we will!

Though I wouldn't swallow the drunken "changing plans" in front of the parents, I see where you're coming from.

[Marius_II]

I sure hope to all that is evil and entertaining that we will!

Speaking of,
did you see that video in the "kawaiiii" thread?

[Trichophyton-in-my-pants]

Speaking of,
did you see that video in the "kawaiiii" thread?

The epitomy of evil and entertaining. Unfortunately, yes I did.

[Hud$on]

She wants you to become her image of what a Japanese guy would be like (in a white boyfriends skin) as it makes her more comfortable but its like asking a leopard to change its spots.

Perhaps the answer to this would be in finding a girl who has never had a boyfriend (Western or Japanese)?

Then you would not be compared all day and night long to her experience of a Japanese guy. Everything would be new and magical. She would not be forcing you to be something you aren`t.

And if she had a really open nature, an interest in other cultures without forgetting her own culture, then you`d have found something pretty special.

I cannot believe the OP`s gf said she needs to fix him, and make him more Japanese. If it was said with humour it is kind of funny, without it I would walk right out the door.

What a fcking b1tch.

[Marius_II]

I cannot believe the OP`s gf said she needs to fix him, and make him more Japanese.

Here we go.

Coldplay - Fix you

The Vapors - Turning Japanese

[xyz]

From someone who had doubts before the wedding and went on to marry anyway:

If you have ANY doubts, don`t do it.



I wish someone would have told me that way back when

[SteadyRollingMan]

This is just another typical silly assed post about how She has changed and I'm not a bad guy but just want to get down and have fun. Grow up you silly Twit! Be a man you accepted her parents help and you have had your fun. now it's time to to make up your mind or scamper away with your tail between your legs. Admit it you see things that you want and you know that if you get hitched you will not get them, so it it is time to walk away. Just tell her it is over and stop looking for excuses!

[Ken44]

This is just another typical silly assed post about how She has changed and I'm not a bad guy but just want to get down and have fun. Grow up you silly Twit! Be a man you accepted her parents help and you have had your fun. now it's time to to make up your mind or scamper away with your tail between your legs. Admit it you see things that you want and you know that if you get hitched you will not get them, so it it is time to walk away. Just tell her it is over and stop looking for excuses!

Right. The question is how to get out of the relationship and if possible with the least amount of embarrassment to the girl and/or her family. The OP has been freeloading for four months and no doubt the family isn't going to take kindly to his change of heart.

[phred]

In Oz she was your girlfriend, in Japan she is your future wife (whether you agree or not) and the face of your relationship. How can she not change? The 'learn Japanese' crowd is spot on and good luck learning it fast enough before you drown in this situation. Living with the folks (and yes I understand you have your own money and are not mooching) has put her in a pickle. It is almost de facto that you guys are going to marry. She is showing her family that she can handle and control you like a wife is supposed to. Get out now if you do not like it, it only gets worse. You are her means to a life and future. It may not be love like you think. It may be more like (business) partner. I got out of a similar arrangement way back when.

I very rarely recommend foreign guys marry Japanese women. Date them, play with them and move on to the next one until you need to settle down. Then, go find your own kind back home. The domestic species of women is tough enough, but the foreign ones add a degree of difficulty that few can endure. I am happy for the ones that do succeed because a happy marriage is like nothing else!

[Pancake]

Great. And how often does this happen?

About twice a week.

[Pancake]

This is just another typical silly assed post about how She has changed and I'm not a bad guy but just want to get down and have fun. Grow up you silly Twit! Be a man you accepted her parents help and you have had your fun. now it's time to to make up your mind or scamper away with your tail between your legs. Admit it you see things that you want and you know that if you get hitched you will not get them, so it it is time to walk away. Just tell her it is over and stop looking for excuses!

I have been no more mooching off her or her parents then she did off me when we were in Australia, I paid for just about everything.
In Japan I'm paying my own way too, I'm paying rent, im paying my own cell phone, im contributing to the household costs, i have back paid money from before i was was working... I hardly see that as mooching.
Quite a few people seem to be quick to label me as a freeloader even after i have stated numerous times im paying for my own ____ and dont seem to remember that i paid for 90% of stuff in Australia after we started living together.

Just to add a little info to the scenario we are both 30yo.

[rubirosa]

i paid for 90% of stuff in Australia after we started living together.

How much did you expect to pay for live in gash ? You're damned lucky you got the 10% disciount.

Originally Posted by phred
I very rarely recommend foreign guys marry Japanese women. Date them, play with them and move on to the next one until you need to settle down. Then, go find your own kind back home.

And you wonder why the Japanese say furio gaijin.

Damn, dude.

Are you seriously suggesting that foreign men can't handle their J chicks ?

Well, sure, you've got plenty of losers over here who wouldn't be getting laid at all back home who have their head so far up their arses that they couldn't handle no chick no where but, and I think I remember you saying that you were an American, that American chicks are easier to handle for an American guy after years of getting guilt free sex with no Christian hang-ups ? Are you really saying that these guys should go back and hook up with some hog who hogs her money box because some right-wing evangeligal said that no body should be having any fun, especially if sex is involved ?

If that's what you're saying, I don't think we see eye to eye on the subject.

[phred]

How much did you expect to pay for live in gash ? You're damned lucky you got the 10% disciount.



And you wonder why the Japanese say furio gaijin.

Damn, dude.

Are you seriously suggesting that foreign men can't handle their J chicks ?

Well, sure, you've got plenty of losers over here who wouldn't be getting laid at all back home who have their head so far up their arses that they couldn't handle no chick no where but, and I think I remember you saying that you were an American, that American chicks are easier to handle for an American guy after years of getting guilt free sex with no Christian hang-ups ? Are you really saying that these guys should go back and hook up with some hog who hogs her money box because some right-wing evangeligal said that no body should be having any fun, especially if sex is involved ?

If that's what you're saying, I don't think we see eye to eye on the subject.

No, that is not what I am saying, but you make a very persuasive argument that you then argue with yourself, however. I was impressed by the religious element since, if you have read my posts - how could you possibly read all of them? - I am not the least bit religious.

In our social circles (J-wife/gaijin husband) in the USA, I have not found 1 happily married guy. Every guy, except 1 who is permanently unhappy no matter what, wishes they would have married someone culturally more like them. I'm in the USA and I have the 'home field' versus the same relationship in Japan. Mixed couples in Japan would have to be a different experience. My wife is limited in what she can get way with in terms of childish, dependent behavior and all out bossiness because it is not Japan. I am not allowed the 'freedoms' I would likely have if we lived in Japan. For example, I do not drink, smoke or gamble for several reasons, but they include that this is not acceptable on some level for a father and husband - it's not religious, it's rational. If I were is Japan, I could do many of these things without the stigma. If we were in Japan (when we go back to the house in Summer), she changes into someone I cannot live with for periods of time. I understand the change, but I do not like it.

[rubirosa]

All I can say is that I'm glad I don't know what Americanized j chicks are like.

[MajimeWarui]

My god man...

Here's an escape plan for you: Pack your bags, open the front door, leave.

gotta say, i have to agree.

there are many jgirls out there who wouldn't give you this unnecessary grief..

[Vancouverite]

I didn't even read your post, but I think if you HAVE to ask random people on the internet if you should marry a girl, you shouldn't. Now I will read your post.

[Kaonashi]

Big piece of advice for any foreigner planning to marry Japanese: if you are not prepared to spend the rest of your life in this country, don't.

There are some Japanese females who do thrive abroad, but even the most seemingly-international types will want to scurry back home when pregnant, and once back home, they will never return.

So, to the OP: can you see yourself growing old here?

[Takex]

I know this is like two months later but I feel a little surprised that no one pointed this out.. OP says his girl is nagging, telling him to turn music down and wear clothes infront of family members. If that is the extentof nagging.. don't you know train manners in Japan? You are not supposed to bother other people with your music, people get pissed. That's not her nagging that's her telling you before old scary salaryman who's gone half a life time without sex tells you to turn your **** down.
I'm sure the shirt thing is a human understanding, she probably keeps walking in on you, but that detail is probably unintentionally left out when the sister is being all "gaah my virgin eyes" about seeing your bare chest.

I'm a girl who dislikes girls cause we nag. But if those were the only two examples you could come up with about her nagging, maybe you should try to think about how open you are to adjust to the culture and life here. But also, like people keep saying, any doubt is a no.

[sing_or_die_1818]

Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[well_bicyclically]

RUN!! Do not walk ... away from this relationship. Take a hint, if you have to come here to PONDER... the answer is no. Neither of you sound adult enough to create anything but a relationship that will end in disaster. But then again, if the two of you live for misery, by all means, take the plunge!

[derv.dervish]

RUN!! Do not walk ... away from this relationship. Take a hint, if you have to come here to PONDER... the answer is no. Neither of you sound adult enough to create anything but a relationship that will end in disaster. But then again, if the two of you live for misery, by all means, take the plunge!

The best bit of advice on this thread by far. If the OP needs the thoughts of GP regulars to help decide if he should marry, the answer is almost certainly no.