distance degree or ...?

[bluecactii]

I am considering going to grad school and getting my masters. I'm pretty sure I can afford it and my job allows me a lot of free time, so I think I can do the coursework. I've seen alot here (on the pot) about distance learning. I think I would be better off going to a real (bricks and buildings) school, but I have no idea.
Can anyone out there (especially paulh) tell me the pros and cons of attending a school versus getting an online or distance degree? Are all accreditted degrees seen equally? How about cost? Study time required? Length of study until graduation?...
Thank you in advance for any advice.

[paulh]

I am considering going to grad school and getting my masters. I'm pretty sure I can afford it and my job allows me a lot of free time, so I think I can do the coursework. I've seen alot here (on the pot) about distance learning. I think I would be better off going to a real (bricks and buildings) school, but I have no idea.
Can anyone out there (especially paulh) tell me the pros and cons of attending a school versus getting an online or distance degree? Are all accreditted degrees seen equally? How about cost? Study time required? Length of study until graduation?...
Thank you in advance for any advice.

Hi there,

Someone called?

I have actually done both, as I attended Temple university (MEd ) while working full time, and am now enrolled in distance phD with Birmingham university. I will send you an article I found a while ago about studying by distance with British universities. I also know someone doing a degree with an Australian university.

I cant speak for other people but i can tell you about my experience . FWIW I work full time and have a family so Im pretty busy these days.

Distance degree

Pros

can work from home without the need to attend a campus or lectures. Wor at your own pace
Distance degree from accreditted university is the same as if you went and studied on campus. The diploma is identical and it doesnt say 'done by distance' on your degree.

Dont have to leave Japan or give up your job.

Recognised world wide.

Chance to travel to other countries


Cons

Lack of access to a library or resources. You need to be able to get to a university library or temple or columbia. reading can be extensive and if you cant borrow books you have to buy them on amazon., Can get expensive

Lack of feedback and lack of meeting with fellow students. I study at home and it doesnt feel like Im at a university. Have to be self-disciplined, set goals and put family life on hold. Going to bricks and mortar you meet with lecturers talk with other students and bounce ideas off each other. All mine I do by email and meeting with other researchers etc.

Tuition fees are expensive and some unis require you spend time on the home campus. i fly to UK next month to spend one month on residency. Family stays in japan. allow for airfare, accomodation and local costs.

Depending on your supervisor or tutor support can be great or non-existent. You get someone assigned to you to keep you on track but you have to make use of them. They can not write your theses for you and they are not proofreaders. they will give constructive criticism and advice by email. Can be hard when they are unavailable for 3 months.

Lack of recognition by many universities. DL degrees are recognised in Japan but many confuse them with diploma mills. Make sure you know what you are buying.

In my case, a lot fo work and a lot fo reading. I have no lectures, just research so i do everything from scratch. Masters degrees tend to be taught with assignments or grades. Mine is just PASS/FAIL.

Cost: depends on university. Oz degrees are about $3000-4000 a year or about $12-14,000 part time.

My degree takes up to 6 years and costs up to 14,000 pounds or nearly 3 million yen.

Study time varies but expect to spend between 10-20 hours a week on assignments reading and writing. Not sure what people do for Masters but im expected to do 20 hours a week as well as a full time job.

I have some very good books I got off Amazon for people thinking or writing a dissertation ro a thesis and tells you how to go about it. Highly recommended. You need to be prepared and self disciplined to finish it . Having a computer for writing and email and access to resources books etc is highly recommended.

I have written an article about the Masters in TESOL program at Temple if you are thinking of one of their programs. i am a graduate from there.


http://www.teachinginjapan.com/continuinged.html

[bluecactii]

thank you so much paul. You are a fountain of knowledge. Your posts are always insightful.

What do you mean by "Lack of recognition by many universities. DL degrees are recognised in Japan but many confuse them with diploma mills. Make sure you know what you are buying."?
Are distance degree not recognized by some universities? How does one avoid confusion with a diploma mill? If I do this, I want to be sure that it is recognized in Japan as well as the west.

[mmiissp]

i think pauls point was this. many uninformed people may confuse a recognised distance degree (which as he said is equivalent to an on campus course) with diploma mills. diploma mills are NOT legitimate and basically operate out of the USA. be careful some mills have fooled some people by charging high prices.

so if you choose a real university, u will get a real degree whichever method you complete the course. i heard that in Korea distance degrees are not recognised but i dont know how they would tell because the testamur is identical as noted above. perhaps that poster was talkin about distance MILLS. who knows.

[paulh]

thank you so much paul. You are a fountain of knowledge. Your posts are always insightful.

What do you mean by "Lack of recognition by many universities. DL degrees are recognised in Japan but many confuse them with diploma mills. Make sure you know what you are buying."?
Are distance degree not recognized by some universities? How does one avoid confusion with a diploma mill? If I do this, I want to be sure that it is recognized in Japan as well as the west.

The poster above has summed it up well as distance learning is not well understood in Japan and think something is wrong that you get a degree while studying at home or its not a real degree. Many people have families and jobs and can not spend 3 years on a campus overseas. so its a good way for busy people to earn extra qualifications.

I might add that if you do a diploma mill Masters degree, it may be impossible for you to do a PhD later on, as a legitimate university such as Birmingham, Aston USQ etc wll not recognise credits by diploma mill degrees. I have a list of such fake degrees, a majority of them from the US and some are no more than postboxes operating out of the Bahamas. I heard of one guy who spent $14,000 on his degree before finding out it was from a fake institution (Rochelle University) No amount of whining could change the fact he had wasted hard earned money on a worthless degree.


Birmingham has a campus, thousands of students on campus in the UK and is recognised in England and Australia and the US. It will be recognised in Japan but what I was saying is you will get some ignorant people who think that because you did by distance it is not a real degree.

Distance degrees, real or fake, are also not recognised in Taiwan or parts of the Middle East, so be careful if you want to work in those countries.

I know several people with Phds by distance working in Japan at universities and you shouldn't have any problem with it being recognised by an employer, as long as you know your institution is legitimate and not a 'diploma mill' where you buy a qualification over the Internet for money. Look out for things like credit given for work experience and life experience and unusually short graduation times.

Anyway, I like to think I am doing the degree for my own self development and knowledge, not just so I can please an employer to get a short term contracted position or part time teaching job here.

[paulh]

This article is a bit old (1997) so the prices mentioned will be out fo date. Contact school for current rates before signing up for anything.



I was interested to read Daniel Dunkley1s article on MAs in TESOL by Distance Learning (TLT 21.3) and would agree with most of the general points he makes on this subject. However, there are not just five accredited institutions in the UK that provide these courses, although Dunkley does not mention it, the University of Leicester also offers an MA in Applied Linguistics and TESOL by Distance Learning.

I started doing the University of Leicester MA in Applied Linguistics and TESOL by Distance Learning in May 1996. I had been considering doing an MA for some time, but was deterred by the high costs and attendance requirements of all the courses I had seen advertised. I saw the Leicester course advertised in The Guardian Weekly; the course was relatively inexpensive, had no attendance requirement and as Leicester is my home town, I knew the University is a bona fide establishment. Moreover, the first module of the course can stand alone as The Advanced Certificate in TESOL. This was particularly attractive to me. I had not done any academic study for several years, and this gave me the opportunity to start an MA without committing myself initially to more than a short period of study and the fee for one module. If I decided after the first module that the complete MA course wasn1t for me, I would still have the Advanced Certificate to show for my time and money.

I was very much lacking in confidence when I started, but my tutor was excellent, offering lots of encouragement, suggestions, and feedback on first drafts, etc. We communicate by email and he always replies within four working days. I passed the first module, have just started the third, and am fairly confident now that I can complete the course.

The Course
The course takes 27 to 30 months to complete. It comprises five modules and a dissertation. The modules are:


The Advanced Certificate in TESOL
Descriptions of English
Sociolinguistics and Discourse Analysis
Second Language Acquisition
Syllabus, Course Design, Evaluation, and Option


Materials
A folder of Course Units is provided for each module. In addition, students should buy or have access to at least two relevant texts per module. The texts can be difficult to find and are expensive in Japan, but can be obtained relatively easily and cheaply from several book shops in the UK. The staff of the School of Education Library at Leicester are extremely helpful at finding articles etc., and very prompt at copying them and posting them to you (for a small fee).

Assessment
At the end of each module, the student has to submit a portfolio of work for assessment. This varies from module to module, but typically consists of several short assignments of a few hundred words each, plus one extended piece of writing of about 4,000 words. The final dissertation should be about 20,000 words.

Fees
The cost per module varies slightly according to where you live. For people living in Japan, the cost per module in 1997 is £495, and the total cost (excluding additional texts) is £2,970. These figures will be revised next year, but once you start, the cost per module is fixed at the initial level.

Attendance
There is no attendance requirement, but students are welcome to visit Leicester to use the libraries and to meet their tutors.

I wanted to do an MA partly because I knew I would need one, as Dunkley says, if I decided I wanted to teach in a university or college in Japan. My other reason for doing an MA was that with my daughter at university and my son in his last year at school, I felt I needed some mental stimulation to be able to keep up with them! I expected it would be a bit of a slog. However, while I wouldn1t describe the course at Leicester as easy, neither is it excessively demanding of either time or effort. What has really surprised me is that I am enjoying it immensely. Further details on the MA in Applied Linguistics and TESOL at the University of Leicester can be obtained from:

Miss Helen Whitfield,
The Continuing Professional Development Office,
University of Leicester,
School of Education,
21 University Road,
Leicester LE1 7RF
England.

Tel: + 44 (0)116 2525782
Fax: + 44 (0)116 2523653
email: hw8@le.ac.uk

[paulh]

The question of credentials looms ever larger in today's rapidly changing Japanese university environment. Which degree is the most relevant and how is it to be obtained? This article provides a guide to one particular form of qualification, the master's degree in TESOL, concentrating on those offered by distance learning from British universities.

The changes initiated earlier in this decade by the Ministry of Education are steadily filtering through the system. These changes are having a significant effect on recruitment patterns. As Oda (1995) points out, an inexorable process of reorganization is under way, affecting both the proportion of full-time to part-time teachers, and the skills required of all teachers.

Credentials are only part of the recruitment story: Chenoweth and Pearson (1992) note that personal contacts are important because institutions normally recruit candidates through recommendations from the current staff. Publications, the status of one's present post (Oda 1995), and experience, both of teaching the age group and of living in Japan, are important as well.

Although only a part, credentials are nonetheless an essential part of one's appeal. A master's degree is basic, both as a Ministry of Education requirement for teachers in recognized universities and colleges and as a market necessity. Moreover, the degree must now be a relevant one. As recently as 1992, Chenoweth and Pearson commented, "The degree need not be in a field related to English teaching, " while adding, "a degree in TESOL is advantageous" (p. 4). Today, it is not advantageous but essential. Of fourteen full-time university posts advertised in TLT in 1995 (Vol. 19, nos. 5, 6, 8) eleven stipulated a master's degree in TESOL; the other three demanded a doctorate.

For most people, professional advancement is the principal motivation for pursuing a TESOL master's degree: either to move from language school to part-time university work, or from a part-time to a full-time university post. Or, full-time teachers with credentials in other fields may want to increase their chances of promotion. A master's degree is also worth pursuing for its intrinsic value. Many teachers, such as the readers of this journal, are interested in both improving their day-to-day skills and in deepening their knowledge of areas relevant to their work.



Distance Learning
Why do some teachers consider distance learning (DL) courses? For many foreign language teachers, a one or two-year full-time course in their home country is impossible because of contractual obligations, family considerations or financial constraints. The alternative of studying part-time at a branch center of an American university in Tokyo or Osaka (see Vierra, 1994) has the appeal of face-to-face contact with teachers and fellow students. These courses have been running for a number of years and their students also benefit from the large networks of graduates, teachers and their contacts throughout Japan -- networks which can greatly assist the job-seeker. However, this option is demanding both physically and financially because of the travel involved. Also, many full-time teachers simply cannot set aside the necessary blocks of time.

Compared with both full-time education abroad and part-time study in Japan, the DL option has pedagogical as well as logistical advantages. To some extent, learning can to be tailored to the individual's pace and preferences, and students can draw on their immediate experiences, relating theory to practice. More practically, it is the only way some people living in remote locations can study, and DL courses are relatively inexpensive. For example, the Columbia University Teachers' College MA course offered in Tokyo costs \2,200,000, and the similar Temple University MEd \1,705,750, while the fees for the DL courses surveyed here range between \500,000 and \1,200,000.

[paulh]

British Distance Learning Courses
Of the dozen or so DL master's degrees in TESOL offered internationally, about half are from British universities. (See Appendix 2 for other examples.) The British courses are surveyed here because they are fairly similar and thus readily comparable.

British courses preponderate in part because DL has been widely developed in Britain for a variety of subjects at degree level, especially since the founding of the Open University in the 1960s. The Open University is public and fully accredited, offering degrees for students who are otherwise unable to attend university. It furnishes teaching material in print, and also on public television. Local support is provided through a network of tutors, and students are required to attend short summer courses. The distance learning TESOL courses draw on this body of expertise.

The main features of the five British university DL courses can be seen in the summary chart (Appendix 1). Courses are offered by Aston, Sheffield, Surrey, and Birmingham Universities, and by the Moray House Institute of Education at Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh. These universities are all publicly funded institutions, and their DL degrees are accredited in the same way as those gained by full-time study on campus. More detailed information may be obtained directly from the university administrators.

Outside Britain, however, DL courses have a credibility problem at the moment. It must be acknowledged that among both teachers and students involved in full-time education there is a widespread distrust of off-campus learning. Peter Garlid, a Nanzan Junior College administrator involved in recruitment remarked, "A lot of Japanese staff believe that a resident program is really important" (personal communication, August 25, 1996). This is partly because very few current teachers have studied by DL. It is also due to the number of mail-order diploma mills offering spurious degrees (see Bear, 1993). At first glance, the advertisements for these bogus universities resemble those for legitimate courses, with impressive coats of arms, and seductive titles such as "Knightsbridge University." However, on closer inspection their unofficial status is easily grasped: they offer "credits for life and work experience," and operate from suspicious addresses. For example, no normal British university operates from a P.O. box number as does "Fairfax University" in Peterborough, or is part of a limited company as in "Knightsbridge University" in Torquay. As a result, their degrees are deservedly regarded as signs of gullibility -- rather than of learning.

Of course problems of academic integrity, for example plagiarism or examination security, afflict all university courses, on or off campus. The universities offering DL courses discussed here should not, however, be confused with these transparently fake operations. Indeed, these DL courses are subject to the same accreditation procedure as all courses offered by British universities. The universities must gain the approval of the U.K. Ministry of Education before running their courses.

The real market value of a course is generated by the performance of its graduates. The courses offered by Columbia and Temple in Japan have developed a solid reputation because their graduates have proved their worth both as teachers and as researchers. But these DL courses started in the 1990s, and thus are only just beginning to establish their reputations and graduate networks.

[paulh]

Content
The British DL courses provide the background needed for teaching English to speakers of other languages, with a variety of emphases among the courses. For example, the Aston course prospectus emphasizes that it is a theoretical course: "This is an advanced academic course, not teacher training" (1995, p.1). The Surrey prospectus, on the other hand, states that "the course is relevant to practical teaching which goes on in the classroom . . ." (1995, p.1).

Specifically, the courses typically contain units on methodology, second language acquisition, discourse analysis, syllabus design, testing, phonetics, and sociolinguistics. However, the prospective student should carefully examine the subject list, since in some courses certain topics are optional, whereas in others they are compulsory. For example, phonetics is a compulsory module at Surrey and Birmingham, whereas it is a part of the optional language module at Sheffield. In addition, some topics are not available in all courses. The student interested in CALL (Computer Assisted Language Learning), for instance, will be satisfied only by the CALL optional unit available at Aston, and someone wishing to learn about literature in TESOL must choose Surrey.



Course Structures
The structures of the courses vary considerably. Most courses have a diploma stage followed by an MA or MSc stage. For example, a post-graduate diploma is awarded by Surrey after 12 modules are completed, by Moray House and Aston after five modules, and by Sheffield after four. Typically, courses consist of a set of core modules followed by several options. For example, at Moray House the structure is five core and three options while at Sheffield it is one core and three options. In addition, the size and composition of the pool of options varies.

Two courses, Aston and Birmingham, have a different structure altogether. Aston has two parts (a diploma stage and an MSc stage). But where most universities offer more choice in the later stage, here the options precede the compulsory modules. The first part consists of five compulsory modules followed by one option chosen from seven, and the second stage is made up of the compulsory modules Description of Modern English and Lexical Studies. On the other hand, the Birmingham course uniquely groups its 12 modules, all compulsory, in six cycles. All five university courses require the presentation of a final dissertation of 10,000 to 20,000 words (see Appendix 1).



Course Duration
A DL MA takes roughly two years, but practically speaking, students cannot expect to see a degree certificate on their walls until about 30 months from starting. Furthermore, the prospective student should check carefully about regulations concerning time off. At Surrey, for example, the MA must be completed within 36 months of finishing the Diploma stage. At Sheffield, the course may be spread out over as much as six years. The time allowed for each module is typically two months, involving about 60 hours of study. The dissertation is normally submitted four months after completion of the last course module.



Entrance Requirements
The entry requirements for DL MAs are a Bachelor's degree along with some teaching experience. The degree does not have to be from a British university. The length of the teaching experience varies from course to course: At Aston it is simply "substantial" (1995, p. 2), at Birmingham, Surrey and Sheffield two years minimum, and at Moray House it is three years. Some courses (Aston for example) now require prospective students to write a short paper or take an interview before matriculating.

The courses are open to students who are not native speakers of English providing that they can demonstrate their English proficiency, normally by submitting copies of their TOEFL certificate. At Birmingham, for example, a score of at least 550 is required. However, non-native speakers should be aware that the course reading and writing assignments demand a high level of English proficiency.



Method
Students receive printed material and then send in written assignments based on this material and other reading. At specified intervals the student receives booklets by mail. In addition, students usually need to acquire one or two books per module. This can pose problems for students in remote locations. However, for Aston students, there are resource centers in Nagoya and Tokyo where books may be borrowed. In contrast, Moray House claims to provide all necessary reading material. Many students find that their local university libraries can help out with books and especially periodicals (Busch, 1994). Another type of printed material is the DL bi-monthly newsletter published by Aston and Surrey.

The assignments required of students are of two types. There are short questions to answer on the basis of prescribed texts. Substantial papers must also be submitted by mail or, at some universities, Surrey for example, they may be emailed. The number of these assignment papers varies from four at Aston and Sheffield to ten at Surrey. The required length of papers also varies: from 2,500 to 3,000 words at Surrey; from 3,000 to 5,000 at Aston (see Appendix 1).

These assignments are generally lengthy essays providing evidence both of wide reading on the topic and an ability to present a coherent argument. The assignments grant students considerable freedom to choose topics within the module subject area, but they also impose the responsibility of shaping a substantial essay in a serious academic format.

For most modules, particularly for methodology, syllabus design, and testing, students are expected to draw on their own teaching experience. For others, sociolinguistics or discourse analysis for example, students may be expected to undertake some practical research. Students may also choose essays with a more theoretical orientation, especially in modules such as discourse analysis, (Surrey, Aston) phonology (Birmingham, Surrey) or typology (Surrey).



Guidance
Feedback on each paper is sent by mail in written or audiotaped form. In most programs, assignment papers are checked by two markers, your personal tutor for that subject and one faculty member who does not know you. Students can also receive feedback or support anytime from their personal tutor who is available by telephone, letter, fax or email throughout the course.

In addition, support through local centers is available on two courses. At Aston's resource centers students are expected to co-operate with their study partners. Birmingham holds a summer seminar in Hiroshima. Students are expected to attend in order to learn from visiting lecturers and to receive individual guidance. On the Sheffield course, students are expected to attend four residential weekends at the university campus in Britain. Aston and Birmingham send tutors from Britain to its students, and Surrey sends a lecturer once a year to Tokyo to meet current and prospective students. In spite of this support, the views of a range of current students and the statements printed in the introductory course material indicate that DL students need considerable self-discipline to handle the course load effectively.

[paulh]

Progress is assessed either by examination, assignment results or both. Examinations are held in Japan by Aston, Surrey and Moray House. The Aston exams are held on two occasions and the Surrey and Moray House exams only once. Surrey students must arrange an examination room at an approved location (university or British Council office), and recruit a suitably qualified proctor. The examination then takes place within a specified one week period, with the proctor acting as the local administrator. The four examinations take three hours each, and consist of essay questions. On the other hand, Birmingham and Sheffield base assessments on assignment results only. However, in all cases the compulsory dissertation carries considerable weight.

Typically (at Surrey for example) the grades awarded for assignments range from fail (less than 40) to Distinction (70+), with intermediate "pass at diploma level" (40-49) and "pass at MA level" (50-69). An assignment receiving a failing grade may be resubmitted. Grades of 80 or more are only awarded for papers of an exceptionally high standard.



Cost
Finally, the cost varies considerably from course to course (see Appendix 1). Assuming exchange rates of £-1 = US$1.55 = \165, the course fees range from £2,600 ($4,030, \29,000 ) to £7,878 ($11,818, \1,300,000). Courses with no local help (Moray House, Surrey) are at the lower end of the range, while those with facilities in Japan (Aston, Birmingham) are more expensive - even before counting travel expenses to Hiroshima for Birmingham's summer seminar, or to Aston's resource center meetings in Nagoya or Tokyo.



A Check List
The potential DL student in TESOL should consider the following:


Time: Can I afford two years or more to complete the course?


Money: Can I be sure to pay the fees on time (see payment options in Appendix 1), and can I afford the supplementary books, stationery and traveling expenses?


Content: Am I really interested in the subjects covered on the course?


Structure: Is the sequence of modules of interest to me?


Entrance Requirements: Do I have the necessary qualifications , teaching experience, and academic writing skills?


Methodology: Does the method suit me - private study only, contact with a local group, or short courses?

Guidance: Can I receive the assistance I need?


Assessment: Can I attend examinations?


Equipment: Do I have access to a word processor (and fax or modem where appropriate)?




Conclusion
As a TESOL master's degree becomes the minimum requirement for gaining a full-time post in a Japanese university, teachers are turning to options for study in Japan: branch campus or distance learning courses. Distance learning at British universities provides a realistic means of gaining credentials while continuing to live and work in Japan. The variety of subjects, teaching methods, and course structures offers a considerable range of choice to an equally wide range of students. By the same token, potential students should examine the course requirements and offerings thoroughly to see which best suit their needs. How firmly these courses will establish their credibility remains to be seen and depends largely on the performance of their graduates. They are academic courses, and will challenge students of all backgrounds. The student must assume the responsibility for the required reading and research, which demand considerable self-discipline. For those of you with sufficient time and mental energy, two years' advanced academic study can be personally challenging, intellectually fulfilling, and career-boosting.



References
Aston University. (1995). M.Sc./Diploma in teaching English (TE) or teaching English for specific purposes (TESP) by distance learning. (Publicity material) Aston University, U.K.

Bear, J. (1993). College Degrees by Mail (revised edition). Berkeley: Ten Speed Press.

Busch, M. (1994). Using Japanese libraries to do second language research. The Language Teacher, 18 (2), 16-17.

Chenoweth, A., & Pearson, E. (1992). Launching a career at a Japanese university. In P. Wadden (Ed.), A handbook for teaching English at Japanese colleges and Universities (pp. 3-14). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Oda, M. (1995). The 1991 Revised standards and the EFL profession in Japanese universities: Focus on teachers. The Language Teacher, 19 (11), 47-49.

University of Surrey. (1995). PG Diploma/M.A in linguistics (TESOL). (Publicity material) University of Surrey, U.K.

Vierra, M. (1994). Graduate Study in Japan. The Language Teacher, 18 (11), 35-37.

[ayrtonsenna1]

[QUOTE=paulh]
Distance degree
Pros
can work from home without the need to attend a campus or lectures. Wor at your own pace
Distance degree from accreditted university is the same as if you went and studied on campus. The diploma is identical and it doesnt say 'done by distance' on your degree.

Not on the diploma. But it does on the transcript. DL classes are coded differently than campus ones. Yes, those who read PhD transcripts - and that's not paulh - know the difference.

Recognised world wide.

As a DL credential only. Don't be misled into thinking that it has the same value as a campus-based PhD.

[paulh]

[QUOTE=ayrtonsenna1]

Distance degree
Pros
can work from home without the need to attend a campus or lectures. Wor at your own pace
Distance degree from accreditted university is the same as if you went and studied on campus. The diploma is identical and it doesnt say 'done by distance' on your degree.

Not on the diploma. But it does on the transcript. DL classes are coded differently than campus ones. Yes, those who read PhD transcripts - and that's not paulh - know the difference.

Recognised world wide.

As a DL credential only. Don't be misled into thinking that it has the same value as a campus-based PhD.

Bochniak/Senna/Buchowski/Schumacher

I sometimes think you must lie awake at night thinking of ways to take the pi-ss out of me and knock me on various forums.


Gotta feel sorry for you, buddy.

[Bearcat]

Bochniak/Senna/Buchowski/Schumacher

You forgot to add S.Dulka, promethus, and a host of other names.

[paulh]

You forgot to add S.Dulka, promethus, and a host of other names.

Don't forget Tomoko the Bathhouse Tapeworm.

[arginjapan]

A couple of things that bother me about this article;

Of course problems of academic integrity, for example plagiarism or examination security, afflict all university courses, on or off campus. The universities offering DL courses discussed here should not, however, be confused with these transparently fake operations.

The article mentions plagiarism and academic integrity and then roughly tries to equate it with confusing DL programs with diploma mills. A concern yes, and maybe I missed it but I didn't see the article honestly discuss deeper the very issues concerning academic integrity (exam security, etc). If anything these issues are exacerbated in DL courses because the education is not done on-site, thus making it far more difficult for profs to manage students and ensure integrity of what they are producing. Hard to know what a student is doing when you only see him every few weeks or months. Of course, being on-site is no guarantee, but in my opinion it mitigates these issues somewhat.

Compared with both full-time education abroad and part-time study in Japan, the DL option has pedagogical as well as logistical advantages. To some extent, learning can to be tailored to the individual's pace and preferences

Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not move at your pace; part of what university teaches is to be flexible and adaptable. Being able to keep deadlines or operate under pressure is what life is all about, and its one of the intangible lessons one learns at university. Allowing a student to learn at their own pace and learning what they prefer can reinforce bad study/work habits, or create them. In addition, relaxed time-tables and more flexibility in course selection give tDL students an unfair advantage over students who are studying physically at a university. If you are trying to build a case that DL programs should have the same worth as "regular" programs then they should be bound by the same rules and restrictions.

I don't see what pedagogical advantage lies in allowing in relaxed deadlines and/or course preferences. Maybe if you have a learning disability yes, but other than that, no.

[paulh]

Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not move at your pace; part of what university teaches is to be flexible and adaptable. Being able to keep deadlines or operate under pressure is what life is all about, and its one of the intangible lessons one learns at university. .

In my case I have a full time job, a family and can not move half way around the world to study. Also my teaching schedule dictates I only have a limited amount of time to devote to research. there is less flexibility than you think there is, as I have to cram my writing reading and dissertation around my professional life. I have deadlines of sorts- the clock is ticking on when I have to hand in my dissertation.

UAllowing a student to learn at their own pace and learning what they prefer can reinforce bad study/work habits, or create them. In addition, relaxed time-tables and more flexibility in course selection give tDL students an unfair advantage over students who are studying physically at a university. If you are trying to build a case that DL programs should have the same worth as "regular" programs then they should be bound by the same rules and restrictions.
.

There are people on campus who have bad study habits,. Me studying at home 5000 miles away is no different than working in the library. i can do zilch and chat to my friends as i saw local women do at Birmingham or sit in the bar all day.

at masters and phD level you dont always study what you want, you may have electives but you still have to produce a piece of writing or a thesis. I have no classes, but i have to force myslef to write, do research or read an article. You still have to show you have done the work and read the material and produced a scholarly work. No difference between doing it at home or in the library. Some people work better at home around their comfy chair and home stereo and CD collection.

UI don't see what pedagogical advantage lies in allowing in relaxed deadlines and/or course preferences. Maybe if you have a learning disability yes, but other than that, no.

just becuase you choose what you wnat to do doesnt make it easy. I chose my dissertation topic and Im having a hell of a job making it stick, collecting data and making any sense of it.
As long as you produce the polished final goods on time who cares how long it takes and how you do it?

[elledakitty]

How can you tell if an institution in reputable and not a diploma mill. I want to take an online masters degree, problaly not ESL but in ARTS or Social sciences, but I need it to be reputable. It seems like these fake schools can make up organizations and claim to be accredited by them, when accreditation by them means nothing. Any help?
thanks

[paulh]

How can you tell if an institution in reputable and not a diploma mill. I want to take an online masters degree, problaly not ESL but in ARTS or Social sciences, but I need it to be reputable. It seems like these fake schools can make up organizations and claim to be accredited by them, when accreditation by them means nothing. Any help?
thanks

elledakitty


This question comes up quite a bit. As Im doing a distance degree from a reputable institution (Birmingham) there are a few red flags you can watch out for. I have a list of diploma mill degrees if you are interested. the vast majority of diploma mill degrees originate in the US, and there are some good degrees you can do by distance. You just have to know what to look for.

Firstly, I would avoid any university that has "com" or "org" in its website as these are not real universities, but simply private companies that build a website from a commercial server. A real university will have a site ending in "edu" in the US or ending in ac.ca (Canada) or ac.uk. Some diploma mills will use edu as well so you have to be careful

Avoid degrees that offer you credits for life or work experience. that means you can work in an office for 10 years and claim your experience towards your degree. In real degrees you only get credited for what you do after you enrol in the degree program such as a thesis you write, not before.

Little or no coursework or thesis required and you are awarded a degree in an abnormally short amount of time. A Masters should take 1 year full time and 2-3 years part time by distance. a doctorate will take 4-6 years part time.


A post office box for an address and no one to answer your phone calls.

Speak to people who have actually got degrees from these universities, as well as from real universities. Its possible to do searches on boards such as Daves ESL cafe to get info about particular degree programs and whether they are real or not.

Accreditation is a crapshoot, as i saw one for TESOL International University based in texas. recognised in 38 states ,accreditted by LATIE which accredits over 2000 schools and recognised by federal govt of Canada. No mention of national accreditation by federal US gov.
Many diploma mills are not recognised by foriegn embassies or immigration when applying for a visa. Who accredits the accreditors?

Does the school have a brick and mortar campus and where is it located? Can you speak to the professors by email or vist them in their offices? Can you visit the school, as many accreditted courses require you do a residency at the home campus. i just came back from 3 weeks in the UK visiting my home campus. You have to allow for residency costs such as air travel and accomodation etc when you do your degree too.


Does the university offer non-distance courses or is it all done by email and websites, operating out of someones garage?

Are the credits you earn transferable to other degrees and universities? Most will say they accept credits from other universities but dont say who will accept THEIR credits when you want to do a phD.

[Emil Minty]

elledakitty


As Im doing a distance degree from a reputable institution (Birmingham) .

You must be joking. This institution was recently implicated in a widespread scam to provide degrees to Asian students who hadn't even come close to qualifying for their awards. In some cases, students were found to have passed business and computing courses without even having a basic functional knowledge of English.

Kid yourself all you want that it's a reputable organisation but any future employer will know that your degree isn't worth it's weight in toilet paper.

[elledakitty]

wow. thanks. Yeah, ive been looking for some time but I simply get overwhelmed if I run a search online, I end up with so much garbage(suspect schools.)
Someone needs to create a database with schools that are considered reputable by other schools. I wonder how a university makes the determination that credits from this or that school are legit.

[paulh]

wow. thanks. Yeah, ive been looking for some time but I simply get overwhelmed if I run a search online, I end up with so much garbage(suspect schools.)
Someone needs to create a database with schools that are considered reputable by other schools. I wonder how a university makes the determination that credits from this or that school are legit.

here are some MA degrees in TESOL

http://www.teaching-english-in-japan...rectory/cat/17

You can have a look on the websites of these schools and see what else they offer by distance. the University of Phoenix Online is also wellknown and is accreditted. based in Arizona.

I will send you a list of diploma mill schools as well.

http://www.littlespeck.com/content/e...020wannabe.htm

Go to this link and scroll to about 3/4 of the way down the page.

http://scottsommers.blogs.com/taiwan...ion/index.html

[paulh]

You must be joking. This institution was recently implicated in a widespread scam to provide degrees to Asian students who hadn't even come close to qualifying for their awards. In some cases, students were found to have passed business and computing courses without even having a basic functional knowledge of English.

Kid yourself all you want that it's a reputable organisation but any future employer will know that your degree isn't worth it's weight in toilet paper.

Which department are you talking about? were they undergraduate or graduate students? I have been in the program (English for International Students, in the English department) for four years and though not perfect, I have no complaints with the support and help I get from my supervisor. Had a great three weeks on the main campus too.

One scandal doesnt mean the whole university is a bad apple. I heard about that scandal too, An isolated incident and Im sure they dealt with it in their own way. The credits are still recognised and transferable to other universities and the degree is recognised in japan. thats all that matters, as well as ones own experience with it.

[arginjapan]

A real university will have a site ending in "edu" in the US or ending in ac.ca (Canada) or ac.uk. Some diploma mills will use edu as well so you have to be careful

Quite often Canadian universities have a "u" immediately following the name of the institution; of the three universities I attended in Canada none of them use the "ac.ca" abbreviation, so bear this in mind as well.

[paulh]

This also may be useful, particular the Bears guide to learning by distance degrees

http://www.degree.net/books/contents.html

[arginjapan]

A Masters should take 1 year full time and 2-3 years part time by distance. a doctorate will take 4-6 years part time.

I suppose that depends what program/department you are in; many MA programs are two-year programs-full time.

[paulh]

I suppose that depends what program/department you are in; many MA programs are two-year programs-full time.

I only know how long it took me. 3 years PT at TUJ (avg is 2.5 years for a full time teacher in Japan doing a masters). My program Im doing now is 4 years plus 2 years write-up part time. 2-3 years full time i.e. going to the main campus and do nothing but study. Im assuming a person will do a TESOL or a Linguistics degree etc and that will vary according to each school. I just wanted to give a ballpark figure.

[elledakitty]

HI thanks. I may be unique in that Im not looking for an esl degree. I want to get a masters in arts that I can use in Canada. I wish there was something reputable the way AthabascaU is known worldwide, but Ive never seen anythig like it.
Thanks for the site. Ill check out some of those options.

[Gordon]

[
Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not move at your pace; part of what university teaches is to be flexible and adaptable. Being able to keep deadlines or operate under pressure is what life is all about, and its one of the intangible lessons one learns at university. Allowing a student to learn at their own pace and learning what they prefer can reinforce bad study/work habits, or create them. In addition, relaxed time-tables and more flexibility in course selection give tDL students an unfair advantage over students who are studying physically at a university. If you are trying to build a case that DL programs should have the same worth as "regular" programs then they should be bound by the same rules and restrictions.

I don't see what pedagogical advantage lies in allowing in relaxed deadlines and/or course preferences. Maybe if you have a learning disability yes, but other than that, no.[/QUOTE]

Who says anything about relaxed deadlines? I am doing a distance masters with USQ and every assignment has deadlines. Every paper I have written has been done on time. On-campus degrees grant extensions too. All the course are the same as the on-camlus courses, there are no extra choices of classes and they do not offer courses more often.

I really don't think a student who is studying by distance is at an advantage. I can email my prof and classmates, but that is not the same as a face to face meeting. I for one would prefer to study on a cmpus, but my family and I need a regular income to live and eat. I work f/t and study about 25-35 hours/week. This is p/t study by the way, for 2 years.

[paulh]

[
I really don't think a student who is studying by distance is at an advantage. I can email my prof and classmates, but that is not the same as a face to face meeting. I for one would prefer to study on a cmpus, but my family and I need a regular income to live and eat. I work f/t and study about 25-35 hours/week. This is p/t study by the way, for 2 years.

Like Gordon,
I have a full time job and a family, I have to complete bodies of work on a periodic basis, while holding down a full time job. I also work weekends as all my main income is soaked up in household expenses. If I didnt have a part time job i would be in the red each month. The only time I can study and work on my papers is late at night when kids are in bed and wife is watching soaps on TV. Thats after a full day working as well.

Try working 2 or 3 jobs, trying to study 20-25 hours a week and write a book-size thesis and you will see that its not a walk in the park. At least Gordon doesnt have to spend a month a year on the home campus like I do. That means international air travel, connecting transport (trains, planes, taxis ) hostel and living costs for a month as well as feeding and clothing a family back home. My last trip to UK for one month cost about 400,000 yen just for study, no sightseeing. Try doing that about 4 or 5 times over 4 or 5 years.

[wolf]

Just wanted to point out that while the University of Phoenix is accredited, it has a very poor reputation. The credits and the degree are acceptable by most state departments of education (for teacher licensing) however the majority of teaching professionals hold it in very low regard as the coursework is not seen to be graduate-level caliber.

OP: Do a brick and mortar if you can so you won't have to justify your choice to everyone you meet for the rest of your career.If that is not an option for you, make sure to pick a school that has a stellar reputation on the ground, preferably from your home country.

[paulbochniak1]

If you are as busy as you say how do you find time to post 3005 messages? moderate the beret wearing homosapians website? write a dating guide on J-girls? I think you have a serious internet addiction and you could spend more time with your family and children if you spent less time trying hard here. You are a control freak and get off on influencing peoples decisions as well as controling people.
My thoughts are you could have done much better for yourself in New Zealand. What are you going to do with that PHD? It won't help you with a job here because all the universities are going to be filled with ECC or Interac or W5 fresh non-balding, beer belly free gaijin.
I have a question, what do you think those pointy shoes legging wearing kawaii girls want? A good teacher or a handsome teacher that they can fantasise about?
I think if your life is a tuff as you say, you should call it quits, give up the shinto priest job and the daigaku and go back home with your family. You may get to spend more time with them then, send your children to a state school and get them into a free university, waste less money on the pension and health insurance, you could even do a PHD in New Zealand maybe even on a scholarship. Hell I did my MA on scholarhip, didn't have to pay a thing for it. You got it tough here gambatte ne!

[paulh]

I
I think if your life is a tuff as you say, you should call it quits, give up the shinto priest job and the daigaku and go back home with your family. You may get to spend more time with them then, send your children to a state school and get them into a free university, waste less money on the pension and health insurance, you could even do a PHD in New Zealand maybe even on a scholarship. Hell I did my MA on scholarhip, didn't have to pay a thing for it. You got it tough here gambatte ne!

Who even cares what you think?

You have a serious addiction as well, where you have about 12 different aliases and nom-de-plumes as you keep getting banned everywhere, including on non-teaching websites. (How are Spock and Kirky these days)? One gets banned another pops up like a bad smell in a small room.

You have so much time that you are concerned for my health and wellbeing?

I'm touched, i really am.

[paulh]

I go back home with your family. You may get to spend more time with them then, send your children to a state school and get them into a free university, waste less money on the pension and health insurance, you could even do a PHD in New Zealand maybe even on a scholarship. Hell I did my MA on scholarhip, didn't have to pay a thing for it. You got it tough here gambatte ne!

I dont have a home in New Zealand. My mothers house maybe but I cant stay there. As we dont have an address we are not in zone for any of the good schools.

No free universities in New Zealand and you pay through the nose for tuition as its user-pays. One private high school we looked at was $25,000 a year in fees.

No need for New Zealand degree, am in the last year of my current degree.

[eku]

paulh.... methinks this wannabe F1 racers has the hots for you.....

and he feels internal rage at his suppressed homosexual tendencies. Poor baby.... must be really hard having such rage bottled up inside.

michaelpoomacher.... if you don't know paulh, whats with the smear campaign...why should you even care, don't you have anything better to do with your time....????
actually you didnt get such a great reception over at Let's Japan either.
the replies you got where along these lines...

**No nice way to say this. No c*nt here gives a ____ mate
**Man, the way you're referring to yourself in the third person, I'm expecting Disco Stu to appear on the boards at any minute!
**And more to the point, why is this f@cking dunce posting about it here???

etc etc and finally

**this guy is starting to get scary.

[paulh]

In case you hadnt noticed, i am a Modertaor on two other forums. Sometimes i will get into heated debates and discussions with posters but I dont use my position as Moderator to browbeat or limit discussion. people are free to express their opinions. However when a discussion descends into name calling personal insults, character attacks as you and your buddies on LJ are so fond of, i choose not to take part.

You guys dont know how to have a discusssion without personal insults which is why you keep getting kicked off the board here and have to go and play on LJ. They are the only people that will have you. becuase I choose not to go on their is not indicative of me being afraid of you, its simply good sense on my part. i have better things to do with my time that argues with t-rds like you guys.

[waller]

I dont have a home in New Zealand. My mothers house maybe but I cant stay there. As we dont have an address we are not in zone for any of the good schools.

No free universities in New Zealand and you pay through the nose for tuition as its user-pays. One private high school we looked at was $25,000 a year in fees.

No need for New Zealand degree, am in the last year of my current degree.

Paul, I'm not jumping on the other Paul's bandwagon here at all, but why would you need to send your kids to private high schools in NZ? There are plenty of great free public ones. As for zoning, apart from a very few exceptions such as Auckland Boys' Grammar, it is not an issue. And university, while it's true it's not completely free, is still about 80% state subsidided - fees for fulltime study about $3500 NZ a year.

[paulh]

Paul, I'm not jumping on the other Paul's bandwagon here at all, but why would you need to send your kids to private high schools in NZ? There are plenty of great free public ones. As for zoning, apart from a very few exceptions such as Auckland Boys' Grammar, it is not an issue. And university, while it's true it's not completely free, is still about 80% state subsidided - fees for fulltime study about $3500 NZ a year.

The Choice was to send her to St Cuths as a boarder for a year, as she needs a year overseas to get into a Japanese school for returnee students.

If we live in New Zealand we would send her to a state school but that was only an option if we continue to live in Japan.

we have 3 choices:

try and get her into Doshisha as a regular student (ippan nyushi). She has a 30% chance of getting in and 100% if she qualifies as a returnee but she needs to spend at least 1 year abroad, and shes only 11 at the moment. Pretty tough to send a kid to live by themselves at boarding school for a year)

Send her to board in NZ but we did the sums and its simply too expensive, about 2 million yen a year.

Doshisha is about 1.2 just for tuition while St Cuths was 1.5 including boarding.

Pack up and move to Australia, find a teaching job and put kids in state school there.

Very few good paying jobs in ESL in NZ and not enough to support 4 people and pay school fees. I have shown sh`t-for-brains (Inquisitor/Bochniak) about paying jobs in Australia but hes too thick and stupid to take any notice. thats why I want and am doing a higher degree so I can improve my skills and employability. He meanwhile is stuck as a part time ALT at Niigata Dai, so hes talking out his a-hole about what kind of jobs I can get in Japan as he has no experience of getting similar jobs here. Highest paying job I have seen in Australia is $70,000 a year teaching at a university (Teaching TESOL to graduate students, PhD and teaching experiennce needed)

Saw a job also teaching Japanese as a non-native speaker at an Australian university but Japanese teaching experience and a relevant graduate degree and publications were required.

[paulbochniak1]

Very few good paying jobs in ESL in NZ and not enough to support 4 people and pay school fees. I have shown sh`t-for-brains (Inquisitor/Bochniak) about paying jobs in Australia but hes too thick and stupid to take any notice. thats why I want and am doing a higher degree so I can improve my skills and employability.
(Paulh)

Exactly, that is what I said about 2 months go apon returning stateside. ESL is not a good career path. You are perfect example to base it on. ESL basically says Extreme SLACKER Looser. You may deny it and yes, it is unfair it has been so typecast but it is pretty true.
As you say there are no jobs in NZ for ESL, why? because it doesn't require many skills to teach your native language. Reason two is the lack of people wanting to learn ESL in a country like NZ where the native language is English. So by making a career in ESL you are basically unable to work in an English speaking country, your home country. You are limited to ESL markets,Japan, China, Taiwan, Dubai, where job conditions and labor unions, as well as labor laws are not as stringent as developed counties. How will the PHD help you when as the trend indicates universites will use only Eikaiwa (consultant) companies to supply labor?
I will try and help your situation and give you some advice. Save up for 1 more year and return to NZ, quit you PHD and instead do an MBA, get one or 2 years industry experience and your problems will be solved. Your children will be accepted as New Zealanders and so will your wife, here they will always be seen as gaijin even though they are half Japanese. You can do it, I don't know what is going to happen to you here. People may say I have homosexual tendencies but they are just homophobic. As I said before I am an empathetic person. All I am writing is for peoples well being. I should start to charge for my advice!

[paulh]

VAs you say there are no jobs in NZ for ESL, why? because it doesn't require many skills to teach your native language. Reason two is the lack of people wanting to learn ESL in a country like NZ where the native language is English. e!

Yes they do have ESL jobs as you have large numbers of foreign students there, there were something like about 30,000 about 2 years ago. and over 200 language schools in the main strip in Auckland. the whole thing imploded when 2 of the biggest schools in Auckland when bankrupt throwing dozens of teachers out of work. I come from Auckland dont want to work in a little hick town on the West Coast. There are jobs but pay is poor and living costs high in Auckland. Better opportunities for me in Australia.

Many Chinese students also left becuase of racism against Asian students. Locals simply thought there were too many of them, many drove cars without licences and ignored road laws. Drugs and gangs became a problem as well.

I will try and help your situation and give you some advice. Save up for 1 more year and return to NZ, quit you PHD and instead do an MBA, get one or 2 years industry experience and your problems will be solved. !

I want makes you think i want to be a businessman doing a 9-5 in a suit? I did Commerce at university and sucked at it. Failed every paper in my first year. F--k that for a joke. I also worked for a finance company between university. Not a great job but there is alot of politics and backstabbing as well.

V Your children will be accepted as New Zealanders and so will your wife, here they will always be seen as gaijin even though they are half Japanese. !

My kids have New Zealand passports. they ARE New Zealanders. They wont be seen as gaijin as gaijin dont exist in foreign countries only in Japan. If you are talking about mixed-blood children there are thousands like her in new Zealand. Which half is Japanese? the left side or the right side? New zealand is home to dozens of different ethnic groups.

Obviously you dont have kids and have been brainwashed into these Japanese stereotypes as well.

the kids ARE Japanese. its their first language and they are treated the same as other kids. I guess you buy into this only Yamato can be japanese BS.
the kids ARE New Zealanders. they carry dual nationality. Parents come from different cultures but they are not HALF anything.

[User Name Deleted]

Once again Bochniak makes some good points. Problem is thought that salaries for ESL teachers down under are low, and it also offers limited job security. I wouldn't recommend coming back to NZ with a wife and kids to work in this industry, unless of course you had considerable savings and could afford to buy a house straight off the plane.
Bochniak, some people do actually want to teach as a career. May not be your cup of tea, but some people genuinely want to teach. Who are we to discourage them?