Aquaculture & Aquaponics

[Yukkuri Kame]

This has been touched on in the big thread, but figured it is worthy of a thread on its own.





After I posted in the big thread that micro-hydro turbines could oxygenate the water for fish ponds, I watched the above video and laughed, because Sepp had that figured out 30 years ago.

One thing about the two systems posted above, is that they are not just square tanks. There are tons of solid surfaces within the water. In Holzer's system, extra edge is provided by submerged tree trunks with lots of roots. In the Spanish system, the wetlands and little islands provide edge. I used to fish a lot, and you know that fish love structure...first it provides places to hide, but also provides anchor for algae that form the base of the food chain.

Curiously, neither of the systems above raise ducks, which would seem a natural synergy with the fish, or any particular aquatic plants, such as rice, lotus, watercress, waterchestnuts, etc.

[docomomo]

neat stuff, I seriously need to move further from Tokyo so I can actually do stuff like that!

[Yukkuri Kame]

neat stuff, I seriously need to move further from Tokyo so I can actually do stuff like that!

You can do aquaponics on a couple of square meters. There are some very compact and productive systems, though they will require more inputs than the above.

More stuff:




podcasts:

http://agroinnovations.com/index.php...rdette-part-i/

http://agroinnovations.com/index.php...-permaculture/

[Yukkuri Kame]

The dark side of aquaculture:

[Yukkuri Kame]

[Gandalf]

Thanks for all these vids Yukkuri. Very interesting. It is good to see systems developed where waste from one becomes an input for another - a basic permaculture principle. The aquaponics concept is so much more sustainable than hydroponics where all inputs tend to be in the form of chemical fertilizers.

BTW As far as scale goes, I've actually heard of people linking a small-scale "hydroponics" system to a domestic ornamental fish tank to grow a few extra veggies while cleaning their fish-tank in the process!

[Yukkuri Kame]

Matching inputs and outputs is key. Aquaponics is a huge leap forward from aquaculture, but I have yet to see really efficient designs to deal with the energy inputs necessary to pump & oxygenate water. I admire the elegance of the low-input systems like the one in Spain, Sepp Holzer's & Geoff Lawton's. They all run on gravity working in the hydrological cycle.

100 mm of rain on one hectare of land = 1ML (million liters) of water - an olympic swimming pool. 1550 mm per year, or about 130mm per month is a good figure for much of Japan. So a hectare receives about 1.3 olympic swimming pools of water per month on average. That is a lot of water to work with.

Sloping land is considered inferior, but for catching, storing, moving and using the kinetic energy of water, sloping hillsides are far superior.

Wow...I just found an AWESOME rainwater catchment calculator...uses google maps to calculate area and plugs in local rainfall, does the calcs for you.

http://www.save-the-rain.com/world-bank/

[Gandalf]

... I have yet to see really efficient designs to deal with the energy inputs necessary to pump & oxygenate water. I admire the elegance of the low-input systems like the one in Spain, Sepp Holzer's & Geoff Lawton's. They all run on gravity working in the hydrological cycle.

... Sloping land is considered inferior, but for catching, storing, moving and using the kinetic energy of water, sloping hillsides are far superior.

In Australia windmills were traditionally used to pump water from underground bores and wells. Perhaps something like that could be adapted.

Sloping land has lots of advantages for many systems, but of course flat land is "simpler" and suits simpler ideas... (like flat monoculture fields and mechanized agriculture).

[Antweazle]

Good on you for starting a thread about this.

A few years back, I spent some time reading aquaponics forums. Two salient points:
* Start small. A ten litre fish tank with an aquarium pump (and associated filters, etc) feeding a kitty litter tray for the plants (directly draining back to fish tank) and placed in a window is a good way to come to at least an intellectual understanding of how the system works.
* Be prepared for a steep learning curve. Lots of potential problems to overcome- there will be initial failures.

Another compact system video: Living in a flat? Barrelponics on yer verandah-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHn_OnwzStQ

Local fresh water fishies that make good tucker?
Carp, eel, trout or ayu... short discussion of some prob's:
http://www.lib.noaa.gov/retiredsites...1/kawatsu.html

[hml]

Very interested in aquaponics. Could this be used in a sunroom attachment to the house to grow plants as some kind of air filter as well? What issues could you run into having it connected directly to your house?

[Yukkuri Kame]

Very interested in aquaponics. Could this be used in a sunroom attachment to the house to grow plants as some kind of air filter as well? What issues could you run into having it connected directly to your house?

Honestly, I don't know, not having ever set up a system of my own. My guess would be if you went for a high density of fish, you could run into some odor issues. Increasing the ratio of plants to fish should keep the system running cleaner. Otherwise, it would add a bit of humidity to the air, which could be welcome or unwelcome.

[Yukkuri Kame]

Thanks for the links, Antweazel. I have been wondering about Ayu and Eel in particular.

[hml]

Honestly, I don't know, not having ever set up a system of my own. My guess would be if you went for a high density of fish, you could run into some odor issues. Increasing the ratio of plants to fish should keep the system running cleaner. Otherwise, it would add a bit of humidity to the air, which could be welcome or unwelcome.

Well, I'm assuming that there is a balance to be had between the fish and plants. "Too many" plants would mean an unbalanced system (therefore systematic failure??) I'm curious how much fish smell comes from one of these systems that is "in balance".

[Gandalf]

Well, I'm assuming that there is a balance... "Too many" plants would mean an unbalanced system (therefore systematic failure??) I'm curious how much fish smell comes from one of these systems...

I have some experience with planted "nature aquariums" as well as having seen a few indoor "hydroponic" systems in my time (usually disguised as closets or fridges) so I'll extrapolate what I understand of them...

Too many plants wouldn't put the system "out of balance" as such. The only down-side is that the plant growth would be reduced due to lack of nutrients. You wouldn't end up with total failure or bad smells. I imagine each system would take some experimentation to determine the best amount of plant material for optimum yield over time.

OTOH too many fish would ultimately result in a stinky situation and eventually sick or dead fish as the waste products not consumed by plants build up to toxic levels.

With ornamental aquariums there are certain bacteria which are placed in the filter for the purposes of breaking down nitrates and other waste products, and using the right type does help reduce any odour from the aquarium. I'm wondering if a dash of these bacteria in the plant growing media might also be beneficial? Only experimentation would tell for sure. The bacteria are usually available from aquarium stores - my favourite type was "Seachem Stability" but there are many brands...

[Antweazle]

Any of youse Blokes keen for a group build/build-along?
From some cr@p lying around the shack, I assembled the gear below to get an idea of how this could work.

175 litre mega-bukkit (tiger fer scale)


Bag'O'Sand underneath to level


R.A.G. frame from scrap. Definitely will build final version to stand alone (not for the tank to take the weight) and to incorporate a roof.


Cement-mixin' thang- will use a new 'un in the final version


Need to decide on ratio of tank to grow bed. At this stage, thinking of making an overflow pipe to empty into a large bucket, then pumping from bucket to grow bed. Grow bed drains directly back into tank.
Thoughts?

[Gandalf]

Why not just pump directly from the fish-tank (aka mega-bukkit) to the plant grow-bed?
I think you'd want to maximize oxygenation of the water in some way as it returns to the fish-tank. One thought that occured to me was that by raising the grow-bed somewhat, you'd get better oxygenation as the water flowed back into the fish-tank - basically a mini-waterfall so the greater drop the better (within reason - you don't want it just splashing all over the place). Or you could get fancy with flow-forms and stuff...

[Yukkuri Kame]

Looks fun Antweazle!

3 ways to oxygenate, a)maximize edge between air & water b)more plants c)bubbler

A high waterfall adds edge. Many small waterfalls add more edge than 1 big one. (a number of small holes in the bottom of the grow bed?)

Vertically stack a couple of shallower grow beds and one deeper one. Perhaps a shelf structure with a chicken wire back/sides so peas, tomatoes, malabar spinach or other vines can get vertical? Chicken wire can also be used to maximize surface area of the water, http://sites.google.com/site/glennea...evaporator.jpgbut i'd be worried about metals building up in the fish.

If you go with the overflow bucket idea, that creates more surface area where the water meets the air, so this is good, assuming you have the space. If it's possible to add duck weed or algae to the overflow bucket you maximize use of that space/water... just have to find a way to keep the pump clean. Algae and duck weed feed & oxygenate the fish. If you can create a waterfall from the main bucket to the overflow, then you add more 02.

As for the grow bed, I wonder if ebb & flow systems increase oxygenation? If the growing medium has lots of little holes in it (porous rock) if the bed is drained then refilled, it would seem a whole lot of air would get trapped in pockets, increasing oxygenation prior to falling back into the main tank?

[Antweazle]

Why not just pump directly from the fish-tank (aka mega-bukkit) to the plant grow-bed?

I'm sort of guessing from memory, but what I recall reading is that a drain tank can provide oxygen by acting as a reservoir into which the overflow from main tank cascades and it is also stocked with oxygenating plants. The drain tank can be rigged with a filter to avoid clogging (why this is better than a filter intake in the main tank I'm yet to determine).

I think you'd want to maximize oxygenation of the water in some way as it returns to the fish-tank. One thought that occured to me was that by raising the grow-bed somewhat, you'd get better oxygenation as the water flowed back into the fish-tank - basically a mini-waterfall so the greater drop the better (within reason - you don't want it just splashing all over the place). Or you could get fancy with flow-forms and stuff...

Yes, more height for oxygenation sounds like a good idea.

[Antweazle]

Looks fun Antweazle!

3 ways to oxygenate, a)maximize edge between air & water b)more plants c)bubbler

A high waterfall adds edge. Many small waterfalls add more edge than 1 big one. (a number of small holes in the bottom of the grow bed?)

Vertically stack a couple of shallower grow beds and one deeper one. Perhaps a shelf structure with a chicken wire back/sides so peas, tomatoes, malabar spinach or other vines can get vertical? Chicken wire can also be used to maximize surface area of the water, http://sites.google.com/site/glennea...evaporator.jpgbut i'd be worried about metals building up in the fish.

If you go with the overflow bucket idea, that creates more surface area where the water meets the air, so this is good, assuming you have the space. If it's possible to add duck weed or algae to the overflow bucket you maximize use of that space/water... just have to find a way to keep the pump clean. Algae and duck weed feed & oxygenate the fish. If you can create a waterfall from the main bucket to the overflow, then you add more 02.

As for the grow bed, I wonder if ebb & flow systems increase oxygenation? If the growing medium has lots of little holes in it (porous rock) if the bed is drained then refilled, it would seem a whole lot of air would get trapped in pockets, increasing oxygenation prior to falling back into the main tank?

Acronym time (AT).
We need to calculate/guesstimate the rate of water/nutrient (WN) flow from the main tank (MT) to the grow bed (GB). With the continuous cycle idea, the WN has to stay long enough within the grow medium (BTW I'm thinking a 50/50 mix of vermiculite and perlite- both available locally) for the plants to extract their tucker and clean the WN solution for return to the fishys. This may be the trial and error research stage (but without the fishys), using an organic nutrient additive.
WN flow from the MT is distributed along the length of the GB via a length of 16mm PVC pipe with a series of holes drilled innit. The GB reclines on a 'slight' angle to ensure all WN drains from the GB to the MT via a hole in one end of the GB. As you suggested, there are also a number of small holes in the base of the GB for the WN to drain to the MT.
Ebb and flow (E&F) would require the use of a timer. No biggie to trial with a secondary GB. The E&F GB has an overflow drain and/or ballcock mechanism.
** Time for explanatory pictures, methinks.**
The chickwire pic you attached looks very interesting. Could devise a smaller version to suit the single MT scale.
Time to do some pump research (PR). A nice little solar job would be best. Whatever the unit used, the rate of flow must be able to be varied.

[Antweazle]

'nuf said.

[Yukkuri Kame]

Looking good A.W.

I'm thinking the garden pool site has been posted before in another thread. Interesting site, though I am a little skeptical of some of their claims. Finally figured out when they say self-sufficiency, I think they mean that the system is more or less a closed loop, not that they are feeding themselves? Have yet to see them produce a full sized fish, but lots of little ones. Considering Mollison's grandiose claims about permaculture, I guess I can forgive gardenpool. Lack of specifics about yields is a pet peeve of mine. Wish more folks did like the Dervaes family and actually put their produce on a scale, then we'd have some more reliable information to go by.
http://gardenpool.org/

Longer intro to aquaponics:

[hml]

I did a quick search for a site explaining aquaponics and how to do them.

"aquaponics how to" search led me, appropriately, to: http://www.aquaponicshowto.com/

Interesting site.

[Yukkuri Kame]

The Edible Pond and Bog Garden

The following list contains many plants, most of them either natives of Britain or naturalized here, that can be grown in ponds or boggy ground. They are all perennials and, unless stated otherwise, can be easily propagated by seed or by division in spring or autumn. Since we have only recently put in a pond and set up a bog garden we have little practical knowledge of many of the plants included here. The list is made up of some of the plants we intend to grow and, we hope you will agree, they show that there is a tremendous potential for food production from ponds and boggy areas.

http://www.pfaf.org/user/cmspage.aspx?pageid=79

[Yukkuri Kame]

http://www.permacultureglobal.com/posts/181

Aeration is a whole chapter we could talk about in detail. Most people think it’s the little bubbles that you see in an aquarium that are dissolving into the water and adding oxygen into the fish tank. I was assured recently that this is not true and a common myth by a biologist. Dr Wilson Lennard an expert on Aquaponics who says that it’s the breaking of the surface tension at the surface of the water body that the bubbles release Co2 into the atmosphere as it takes in O2 in it’s place. Most people find this hard to believe. Wind and waves in a large body of water do the same thing. A paddle wheel disturbing the surface of your fish tank will aerate your tank. Rain falling into your tank will add some oxygen as well. Break the surface tension and you are in business with raising fish! Never forget that rule.

[Yukkuri Kame]

Looks like basically an advertisement for the intensive, but maybe some interesting content. US pacific time...so it will be this Sat.AM japan time.

all the best,
YK

https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/175298494

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[wmanoble]

Hi Yukkuri and Antweazle, thanks for the great sharing on Aquaculture & Aquaponics. Some information here is interesting and in detail. Really helpful for how to aquaponics and solving problem while DIY an aquaponics system. More basic about aquaponics here at http://www.squidoo.com/aquaponics-4-...growing-system

[hml]

Hi Yukkuri and Antweazle, thanks for the great sharing on Aquaculture & Aquaponics. Some information here is interesting and in detail. Really helpful for how to aquaponics and solving problem while DIY an aquaponics system. More basic about aquaponics here at http://www.squidoo.com/aquaponics-fo...growing-system

Hey wmanoble, please post a directl link to download your "Aquaponics 4 You" PDF file. That would be a helpful and welcome contribution.

[hml]

PS. wmanoble: those messages that pop up when someone tries to leave your website are as annoying as hell. Plz knockitoff.