Problems with real estate agent

[howardmark63]

I left my apartment recently and returned to Australia because of immediate family reasons, so I only gave about a weeks notice to the Landlord, but had paid out the months rent, this was all cool with her because of the situation.
I of course had to break whatever contract agreement was in place. The real estate agency was holding a months rent in advance as well as 2 months security monies.
I didn't hold out much hope of seeing any of this again, but was stunned to hear that they now want an extra 160,000 Yen for repairs on top of this. The landlord never did any inspections or maintainance work in the 3 years I was there, none was needed. what recourse do I have? what are the responsibilities of the landlord?
The problem is I dont want any problems for my Japanese garentor.

[Jacque_S]

They're obviously taking advantage of you being out of the country, perhaps as you mentioned to stick it to your guarantor. First, contact the agent and ask them for an itemized list of the damages. Next, contact the landlord and ask if s/he is aware of these outstanding charges. They may have done it behind your landlord's back. Finally, contact your guarantor, explain the situation, and ask her/him to be patient while you sort it out, in case the agent comes calling. Agents are scuzzbuckets by the way.

[Ken44]

Originally Posted by howardmark63

I left my apartment recently and returned to Australia because of immediate family reasons, so I only gave about a weeks notice to the Landlord, but had paid out the months rent, this was all cool with her because of the situation.
I of course had to break whatever contract agreement was in place. The real estate agency was holding a months rent in advance as well as 2 months security monies.
I didn't hold out much hope of seeing any of this again, but was stunned to hear that they now want an extra 160,000 Yen for repairs on top of this. The landlord never did any inspections or maintainance work in the 3 years I was there, none was needed. what recourse do I have? what are the responsibilities of the landlord?
The problem is I dont want any problems for my Japanese garentor.

Call (or have a friend call) for a itemized list of the damages right away.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Also, read over your contract on your apartment. It's possible that hte money they are asking for is actually stipulated in your contract. For example, when I vacate my apartment, I will be required to pay about 50,000 yen to cover cleaning and lock change costs.

The first place always to look is your contract, imo.

[Ken44]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

Also, read over your contract on your apartment. It's possible that hte money they are asking for is actually stipulated in your contract. For example, when I vacate my apartment, I will be required to pay about 50,000 yen to cover cleaning and lock change costs.

The first place always to look is your contract, imo.

I own rental property in the States and the lease agreements I have with my tenants are at least four pages in length.

I just asked my wife to look at the one page lease agreement we currently have in Tokyo and nothing is clearly spelled out. We have a 115,000 yen deposit and are required to pay for damage when we leave. However, what constitutes "damage" isn`t stated but I`m sure the housing agent will let us know when we leave. I`m just thankful the deposit isn`t any larger.

[iLyo]

if you have damaged the place due to negligence or other and there is heavy wear and tear, you are responsible. you are also responsible for things like scratches on the ground, mold/mildew, etc. you are not responsible for spots or discoloration on wallpaper, sun discoloration/damage, or anything which would happen through normal aging process.

most probably the agent is trying to receive some extra money.

normal wear and tear on a building is usually taken care of by the owner. thus the lovely key monies and high deposits. to be quite honest, i prefer 35plus tenants as they are the least likely bunch to argue with anything and just pay me my 2 and one time 3 months key money and 2months deposit.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Originally Posted by Ken44

I own rental property in the States and the lease agreements I have with my tenants are at least four pages in length.

I just asked my wife to look at the one page lease agreement we currently have in Tokyo and nothing is clearly spelled out. We have a 115,000 yen deposit and are required to pay for damage when we leave. However, what constitutes "damage" isn`t stated but I`m sure the housing agent will let us know when we leave. I`m just thankful the deposit isn`t any larger.

Really? My lease is an eight page book, not including the cover. I have recently gotten married, and we're moving to a new apartment. The lease on the place we came to a hair's breadth of moving into was seven pages long.

In my current apartment, I am required, as stipulated in Article 3, to pay 38,000 in house cleaning, and 15,000 for the change of the lock.

In the apartment that we were luckily able to avoid, it clearly states on the bottom of page two in the contract that when the rentor vactates the apartment upon termination of the lease for whatever reason, the rentor in required to pay a sum equal to 3 months' worth of rent for "restoring the apartment to its original condition".

How did you find your apartment? A one page lease seems rather strange to me...

[Jacque_S]

A contract in Japan is only a guideline. Situations change. If you think a charge is unreasonable, say so. If you don't want to pay rapacious 'renewal fees' or 'insurance' that doesn't actually cover anything, don't pay it. If you know the landlord (as opposed to the agent) get on friendly terms with her/him. In the case mentioned by the OP, the only cause for concern is the guarantor getting fisted. An itemized list will keep the agent reasonably honest, or at least provide a starting point to push them back.

[Ken44]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

How did you find your apartment? A one page lease seems rather strange to me...

Strange or not that`s appears to be all we`ve have. My wife found the apartment about seven years ago through a rental agency. It is a fairly new and large building. We have no communication with the owner who owns several other large apartment building in the area. The telephone# of a property management company is listed near the entrance of the building and they are who we call when we have trouble.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Originally Posted by Jacque_S

A contract in Japan is only a guideline. Situations change. If you think a charge is unreasonable, say so. If you don't want to pay rapacious 'renewal fees' or 'insurance' that doesn't actually cover anything, don't pay it. If you know the landlord (as opposed to the agent) get on friendly terms with her/him. In the case mentioned by the OP, the only cause for concern is the guarantor getting fisted. An itemized list will keep the agent reasonably honest, or at least provide a starting point to push them back.

I hate to be so contrary, but the leases I have seem pretty airtight to me. It covers every scenario that I can think of, at least.

Is it possible the the OP's trouble has come about because either he didn't or couldn't read his contract due to language issues? I think so. Of course, it's possible that his contract is very short and vague, but I can't imagine that's the norm, as the only place that I have ever seen such a contract was when I did a stint at an eikaiwa, and the contract was purposely made vague by the crooked employer. (Which I know, because when I offered him a new version which I wrote up to be more airtight to protect both him and the teachers, he rebuffed it with that very reason.)

[Jacque_S]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

I hate to be so contrary, but the leases I have seem pretty airtight to me. It covers every scenario that I can think of, at leastl

Indeed they do but that doesn't mean they should be taken literally. Forget the lease renewal fees and insurance, and don't pay the last month's rent until you can get a rep of the agent into the place to put down on paper what they intend to charge you for. If possible, get the landlord there too. Suck air thru your teeth, claim it was there when you moved in, then stay silent for a while to let him come to grips with the idea that he can't take you for what he thought he could (DO NOT flat-out refuse to pay). If he speaks first, you win. Then cut some kind of deal.

Edit: I should've added, if the landlord is there, deal with him/her and not the agent.

[Ken44]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

I hate to be so contrary, but the leases I have seem pretty airtight to me. It covers every scenario that I can think of, at least.

Is it possible the the OP's trouble has come about because either he didn't or couldn't read his contract due to language issues? I think so. Of course, it's possible that his contract is very short and vague, but I can't imagine that's the norm..

What the OP needs to do is get an itemized list of the damages and run the list along with a copy of his lease by someone who understands rental agreements. If this is a shake-down of sorts he needs to get on top of it before the guarantor is contacted and threatened with a potentially lawsuit.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Originally Posted by Jacque_S

Indeed they do but that doesn't mean they should be taken literally. Forget the lease renewal fees and insurance, and don't pay the last month's rent until you can get a rep of the agent into the place to put down on paper what they intend to charge you for. If possible, get the landlord there too. Suck air thru your teeth, claim it was there when you moved in, then stay silent for a while to let him come to grips with the idea that he can't take you for what he thought he could (DO NOT flat-out refuse to pay). If he speaks first, you win. Then cut some kind of deal.

Edit: I should've added, if the landlord is there, deal with him/her and not the agent.

Of course, I agree that it's good advice to do what you can to hold your agent/landlord accountable and honest.

However, it's a two way street. For example, if your lease clearly states that you must enter the insurance and you further must pay a lease renewal fee, then your case not only weak, it is nonexistant.

What I do is think about what would happen in the case were to go to court as a worst case scenario. If the lease does not violate any contract law and you willingly and knowingly (every real estate agency I have ever gone to was very clear about explaining every charge stipulated in the contract as well as every prohibited action) entered the contract, the simple matter of fact is that you will not win the case.

[Jacque_S]

Not necessarily true. If there are illegal clauses in the contract, they won't hold up in court. The legal system in Japan is not designed to hold everyone to follow the letter in all their contracts. I never paid a lease renewal fee and didn't get the 'insurance' the agent was trying to push on me, and nothing was ever done about it. The converse of that, however, is the situation the OP is in...the agents will attempt to extract 'charges' that may not necessarily be legal hoping that s/he would rather pay than take up legal means to secure her/his rights...which is the case most of the time in Japan. Someone more familiar with tenants rights/laws in Japan than I could probably state it better than I, but just b/c a charge appears in the contract doesn't in an of itself make it legal.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Well, right, that's why I said "If the lease does not violate any contract law."

Actually, we agree pretty much, although I would contend that the reason nothing happened to you for not paying the renewal fee, etc., is that the landlord just decided that it was too much of a bother to pursue further.

I agree that it is entirely possible the the agent is trying to swindle the OP out of money. That'S why I advise checking the contract first and see what he agreed to pay at the time of signing the lease as a starting point to assess his situation.

[Jacque_S]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

Actually, we agree pretty much, although I would contend that the reason nothing happened to you for not paying the renewal fee, etc., is that the landlord just decided that it was too much of a bother to pursue further.

Could be. But goes to show that the contract is flexible and not cast in stone.

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

That'S why I advise checking the contract first and see what he agreed to pay at the time of signing the lease as a starting point to assess his situation.

Indeed a good starting point, but also keep in mind just b/c it's in the contract doesn't make it legal. The agent might have written in the contract stipulations for the tenant to replace or repair certain things under certain conditions that would qualify as normal wear n tear, etc. I once had a housing agent assess me for ceiling paper replacement b/c when I removed the light fixture on the kitchen ceiling the area under which the fixture had been was a different color. I'm pretty sure an agent would have to backpedal quickly on that sort of thing if a lawyer were involved, but most Japanese don't hire lawyers and simply grab their ankles. I was out of prefecture at the time and could do nothing but bend over and grip tightly. If the OP is willing (or can find someone) to argue similar points he might get them to roll back some of the charges. And let's keep in mind that he's only doing this to protect the guarantor at this point. Otherwise the only thing to do would be to tell the agent to go fuck himself.

[quato]

I heard that contract renewal fees are legal if the tenant agrees, but the landlord is not allowed to do evict the tenant if s/he refuses to pay.

[Ken44]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

A one page lease seems rather strange to me...

My mistake. My wife found a four-page booklet which spells out the does/ don`t of the tenant agreement.

[OtakuLife]

I would ignore it and tell you gaurantor the same thing.

I was billed 850,000 yen by a landlord in Tokyo in 2001. They changed all the exterior screens on ALL the windows. New wallpapper through the entire house. Put new carpet inside rooms with carpet. Fixed tiles on the roof. Had the exterior of the house cleaned. They even billed me for new bulbs in all the lights. I had a 3 month deposit as well, and the rent was 265000 a month, so the 850k was excess. I left after 1.5 years, and it was not new when I moved into the house. They tried to collect, threated to sue my gaurantor, and then went away. I never responded, and knew I wasn't going to see a penny of my deposit. However, I thought that was normal back then.

[jhnsmith978]

Hello Howard...
I really feel for you.. It seems that they are just taking advantage of your's.. You must take some immediate step regarding this.. I think you should consult to your agent and give him all the detail whats happening there.. I am sure you will get some solution of your problem...

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